The terrifying world of eliminating no-fault divorce

[@hran94]

I’m a child of parents who stayed together despite being wildly unhappy. My dad was abusive to me, my siblings, my mom, and my dog. I used to BEG my mom to leave and to this day she is still with him and still miserable. While I know that having divorced parent comes with it’s own set of challenges, having two parents who are only together because they think god looks down on divorce can be just as traumatic.

[@novaroseoooooo]

My stepdad has always been emotionally abusive to my mom and all of us kids, and it’s honestly hard for me to connect to people at all because of him. My life would be so much better if my mom had just divorced him when I was still a child so I could at least learn what it’s like to stand up for yourself and to have someone on my side against abuse!

[@meganiswatchingthis]

Just wanted to say, I understand and stand in solidarity with you. My mother only JUST started divorce proceedings two months ago to leave my abusive dad. He also abused her, me and my little brother. I truly was doubtful as to whether or not she would ever leave. Though the circumstances are not the same, I understand the agony it is to have a parent stay in a marriage despite abuse, despite begging, despite everything. I hope your mother finds the strength to leave some day, but if she doesn't I hope you know that you can still live a good, even happy life. It's not a betrayal to anyone. And though I wouldn't wish this kind of trauma on anyone, it can be lived with, even if painfully.

[@AudreyStar17]

I'm so sorry to hear this, and my heart goes out to you and yours, cause this is my Mom and Dad. She's over 70, all 8 kids are out, but she insists the right thing to do is stay with a useless, long abusive PoS husband cause of that paper they signed being a promise. Some of us kids recently spoke with her and told her how growing up, seeing Dad treat her like sh**, and how broken she was, we would've so much rathered shed gotten a divorce. In my own life, I screwed up 15 yrs ago, and now that my kids are older, I've vowed to not become her. Husband knows we're working towards finances so I can divorce him (or he me, since he hates me), and kids know, and understand that their Dad and Mom would both be happier if they were out of the toxic relationship.

[@Albinojackrussel]

As a kid who's parents did (eventually) divorce, 100% it's better when they divorce.

[@Studio23Media]

I completely relate. My parents finally seperated after 32 years of marriage.

[@sebbohnivlac]

Keeping a relationship together should be like picking a name for a baby. It should take two yeses to stay together, but only one no for it not to happen.

[@Brigand231]

Apply that same logic to child support or alimony and you'll begin to see where the system fails. There are legitimate reasons to end a marriage, but in our present day, many divorces happen simply because someone is told "no" or their spouse actually expects them to be faithful or honest. Women use alimony and child support to abuse men now and the court backs them up because the state gets a percentage of all child support recovered.

[@remipreece7179]

@@Brigand231the misogyny baked into this comment, seriously. What a sweeping statement to assume it’s all women’s faults. Alimony and child support are completely separate issues to ending a marriage itself. If someone, man or woman does not wish to be in a relationship anymore, they shouldn’t have to be forced to stay with someone they don’t want to be with anymore. That is the issue here, not alimony or child support. And abuse is a strong word to just throw around, don’t make such sweeping statements.

[@Brigand231]

@@remipreece7179 I lived it, I speak from experience. I divorced my wife and paid for the privilege of not being slapped around, choked, sat on, and threatened. Yes, child support is part of the issue here. The spouse who is most likely to be granted support has the power to wield it as a club. "If you leave you will pay for it. If you shut up, it will be easier for you." is a phrase I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Not only was I told that I couldn't do anything without video proof, but that if I was a real man I would have stopped her. Screw you and your "misogyny", until you've been a victim.

[@LAWless_Nonsense]

@@Brigand231 who do you think made it so easy for women to mostly get alimony and child support and custody? Hint it wasn’t women nor any other gender minority And being faithful and honest are the foundation of romantic relationships, even poly ones

[@Brigand231]

@@LAWless_Nonsense Yes, change the subject, I believe that's what's known as minimization. It happened to me. I don't care if it was easy or who made it easy, I'm advocating for the system to get fixed to prevent it from happening to someone else. I agree with the premise of the video, that no fault divorce can be good and should not be done away with, but the discussion shouldn't stop there. Divorce is not the end of the discussion and it does not, in and of itself, stop abuse.

[@ZenWithKen]

My daughter went through...oh, a cow picture, cool...a divorce three years ago. We had snippets of them having problems, but only saw how toxic the relationship was after she had the courage to end the marriage. It was not easy, but she (we) got through it and life is much better. The fact that there is a call to end no fault marriage shows just how damaging political (religious?) agendas can be. It's people like you that make the world a better place, by bring this information forward and making it known. Thank you.

[@Rithene]

My grandmother got a no-fault divorce circa 1980, when it was still very much socially unacceptable. She got her PhD, became a professor of education, and traveled the world. Never remarried, never wanted to. My grandpa remarried a lovely woman who has always treated us grandkids like family. I can't imagine growing up with no step-grandma and my grandparents trapped in a strained, loveless marriage. Their lives would have been so different and inarguably worse if they hadn't had the option of no-fault divorce.

[@mikafizz1022]

this is so beautiful wtf so happy for your fam

[@bongodave13]

People fall in love, and they also fall out of love. It's already difficult. Why shouldn't a couple be able to just call it quits if that's what they decide? Why should it be hard if they can split amicably?

[@jayc342009]

@@bongodave13 i am not arguing against divorce but it is pretty devastating for children

[@petejames9366]

And she died alone and miserable full of regret 100%

[@bongodave13]

@@jayc342009 Of course. But an unhappy couple can be just as bad for their kids if they're forced to stay together.

[@kethry1313]

I was 11 years old when my parents got divorced. It was obvious to me at the time that they weren't happy together, they were sleeping in seperate rooms and argued so much. If they had been forced to stay married it would have been horrible for everyone and would have ended with them hating each other. Instead they got a no-fault divorce and ended up good, close friends. They both found other people to marry and I ended up going from being an only child to having 4 step siblings and a half sister. It was great and both of my parents lived the rest of their lives in happy marriages. The idea of getting rid of no-fault divorces makes me ill and so angry.

[@borkbork4124]

My parents divorced when I was 11 too, even though I didnt have the words for it, I knew mom and dad were not doing well together. The relief when the dust settled was like night and day. Co parenting has its own hurdles, but it pales in comparison to staying in a bad marriage. Divorce is not for the faint of heart, it is not a flippant decision people make. It is so difficult but it is for a better future.

[@johnsonjj117]

lets change it to “dual fault divorce” or “single party fault”. If a marriage fails, at least one person is to blame 100% of the time

[@bluewrites2278]

​@johnsonjj117 That is not necessarily the case. Particularly if the people get married at a young age or if they are pressured into it due to a pregnancy occurring. Getting married out of obligation almost never succeeds long term, and staying married out of obligation is jo way to live and is often quite detrimental to any children involved.

[@lispequena]

@johnsonjj117 marriages don’t “fail”, they simple keep on going or come to an end. Now, the end of a marriage might be due to someone’s “fault”, such as cheating or abuse, but in those cases, the marriage shouldn’t even have gone further. People change throughout their lives and that’s ok to fall out of love with someone, to realise you are not happy in that relationship anymore, or simply to realise you made a mistake and in fact the other person is not a good match for your life after all. There’s not fault in so many scenarios in which a marriage can end. And being forced to stay in a unhappy relationship just because noone did anything wrong is just nuts.

[@johnsonjj117]

@@lispequena marriages do fail…Divorce is inherently a failure, might be hard to admit but it’s true. Most marriages are entered into under the basis of it being a lifelong commitment, so anything less is a failure. If you stop your newyear resolutions in February then you failed. It’s impossible to “fall out of love” with someone because it’s impossible to “fall in love” with someone. I think you’re confusing love and limerance. Loving a spouse is a conscious decision made and acted on. The loving feelings are simply a byproduct of said actions. There’s a reason arrainged marriages have an equal if not slightly higher long term satisfaction rate to love marriages, it’s because people have no clue what love actually is, they think it’s “how I feel about someone”.

[@themarinebrat1]

Totally agree with you. Divorced for 10 years. My Ex-wife was verbally, mentally, and physically abusive. Life isn’t always sunshine and roses, but you shouldn’t be aloud to force someone to live in the “inferno of hell” because it goes against there religious moral compass.

[@julius7949]

so then make it easier to gather evidence. do people not critically think anymore???

[@specialk5340]

For some reason you comments don’t have a lot of like or even reply’s.

[@roberthooper8883]

@@specialk5340 we all know why lol...

[@roberthooper8883]

@@julius7949 the solution is simple- men stop signing a damned piece of paper just to have a woman around. I have noticed that many states are finally waking up and stopping the bs "common law" marriage crap, and/or making it more difficult for a woman (or either one) to claim that they are "married" just because they lived together for awhile etc. GOOD

[@Ferncovered]

I had to leave my marriage of nearly 10 years when my partner slowly started becoming abusive to me, and it was in ways that I could not prove (mental over physical.) He attempted to contest it every step of the way, even going off grid so the court could not serve him papers. If it wasn't for no fault divorce I would still be with someone who hurt me deeply. I, emotionally, cannot sit through the whole video because it hurts me so badly to think I could possibly still be there, so I wanted to put a comment instead. I'm very lucky that we had no assets, no kids, and my divorce hearing was only 5 minutes long because he did not show (as a form of protest). I'm safe now, living a happy, wonderful life. And it is thanks to the ability to have a no fault divorce.

[@fancydeer]

it's so hard to explain mental abuse. like how do you explain the smallest thing setting you off? "yeah they moved an object from where I thought it was and then laughed when I looked for it" ?? what? what's so bad about that? but how do you explain the degradation and the gaslighting and the name calling and the hot-and-cold and the emotional manipulation and the pantshitting fear this person induces in you? so when they move something from where you put it from your mind is racing and you're thinking of every possible outcome (they could have broken the object, sold it, some how be using this against me, how? is it embarassing? should it be embarrassing? are they going to some how bring this up in front of people and manipulate the situation and make it embarrassing? what secret are they going to tell? what lie are they going to construct? what detail are they going to twist? oh god I have to find this but I can't let them know I'm freaking out or it will make it worse. they can't know they're getting to me.) I would rather be beaten every time I left the house than emotionally abused.

[@carolynandcocohaywood2638]

I hope you have found happiness now and you are safe.❤❤

[@EricaGamet]

So glad you were able to get out and have the life you deserve!

[@Brigand231]

Now imagine your situation but as a man being abused while nobody would believe him and the only way to escape is to never see your children again while paying off your ex for the next 18 years or you go to jail. I agree that no fault divorce can be helpful, but the system and process both need a major overhaul before they protect victims and not just women. For me, it was over 20 years ago, but even 10 years ago for you, you have to admit that the world is a different place now than it was then. The system is heavily skewed against men to the point that a wife who doesn't get her way can just cry to the media and ruin a man's life whether he actually did anything or not. The real solution for men, with things as they are now, is to not get married or involved in the first place because the risk is too high.

[@ariannadravis3934]

​@@Brigand231 Go talk about mens issues in a mens issue video, then proceed to lobby for it. This is not the place to discuss it. Further, no-fault divorce effects both genders, not one or the other, so im not sure why you feel the need to divide it.

[@RFWieder]

I'm 72 years old and have been married to my wife for over 40 years. But the very idea that we are held together by the " institution of marriage" and not by the love, respect and shared experiences we have is absolutely stupid!!! Sometimes divorce is better and safer than staying together!!!

[@lovinavargas-carriedo2698]

Pushing institution of marriage rhetoric is completely disrespectful to marriages like yours, and extremely dangerous and degrading to specifically women but partners who are trapped. It's invalidating and treats them like property again because they signed a paper and said yes one time. Marriage is supposed to mean something and when it doesn't or it means toxicity ending it is better for everyone. I still wish my parents were divorced. They should be. It was awful growing up with them the way they are, and it's still horrible as a 29yo adult fielding the drama between them still.

[@Inertia888]

I saw my parents divorce, and at the time, it was life-shattering, for a little kid, who did not understand. But now that I am an adult, and I see both of my parents in new and satisfying marriages, the only thing I *might* change, is that they both would probably be happier, if they had divorced sooner, rather than later. They were both miserable, and are both now happy, and have each found a partner that they are each better suited for. Personally, after living through that, I will most likely never get legally married. If I am with a partner who means the world to me, I will most likely stay with them and leave the state out of it. @@lovinavargas-carriedo2698

[@Oliviaandtrina]

Congrats ❤❤ marriages like yours are what upholds the sanctity of marriage, not holding women against their will.

[@bobboby2400]

Whether you don't like the fact that you're held together by a system you shouldn't be getting married if you're not going to take it very seriously and take it for what it's supposed to be it's not a game you don't just decide not to be with someone that you committed to. So unfortunately that would be a childish response and should be thinking about to not have people use the system to steal from others. If it wasn't predatory than maybe it could just be flamboyant nonsense that will never be meaningful other than what you have for the moment until they just change and go the other direction which is just asinine for any true commitment. If it was set up that the person only gets what they brought in then okay. Make it be that flamboyant system where you could just leave someone for no reason at any time and there wouldn't be any true commitment that would be awesome if they can come into your life and leave with what they came in with not your stuff too. I say you don't get married until you really know that you were not going to leave that person ever under no circumstances you do not say yes to a proposal if the person is someone that you might not think is right for you that you cannot stay with for life unless they physically put their hands on you with intent of harm. It's not about control it's about making sure people understand the commitment and it's not a game and you don't use it to take people shit that trusted you, it's not hard to understand.

[@bobboby2400]

​@@Oliviaandtrinayeah he has a good marriage but it wouldn't be there anymore if the woman was allowed to just go off and be with another guy just like that I could tell you

[@middlemuse]

I feel bad, I couldn’t finish this. I wouldn’t have been able to get my divorce if my ex had been able to control the decision. I remember him telling me, “Don’t I get any say in it?” The idea of the rest of my life being whittled down and shrunken and exhausted by his abuse is so upsetting.

[@throughcolouredglasses9300]

I don't know you or your situation, but I know this must have been hard. It is amazing that you persevered and got out! I hope you are now in a place where you can appreciate how much work that took and are content with how far you've come ❤

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

Did you have children? If not, congratulations for getting out. If so, screw you for putting yourself ahead of your children.

[@zythe69akaru]

​@@EnthalpyAndEntropyAs someone whose parents divorced when I was 13, SCREW YOU for thinking that. Divorce saved my relationship with both my parents because they were happier and healthier apart than together, and were able to focus on being parents to my sister and I, rather than struggling with each other all the time. "Think of the children?" No child wants to live in a house with parents who hate each other, who abuse, who control, NO ONE should be stuck in that situation just because there are children present. Even if it's not so bad right away, that anger and resentment WILL fester and WILL explode. If two people are incompatible, for the SAKE of the kids, PLEASE SEPARATE! You have no idea how much it screws up a developing love map to have what should be your primary example of a loving relationship represented by abuse, hatred, indifference, and pain.

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

@@zythe69akaru my parents got divorced when I was 11. They wasted and continue to waste money on stuff like separate residences. Resources that could have been and could continue to be used for me. Instead of inheritance, I’m terrified of the fact they both live in a filial responsibility state. They’re horrible people and, as much as you think your relationship is better, SO ARE YOURS. While my parents fought and stuff while they were married, at least I had one to go to and advocate for me in their way when the other was off the rails. When they were separate, there was nobody and nothing in my corner. They made stupid rules and did stupid stuff without the slightest care in the world, continue to in typical boomer fashion, and myself and others bear the consequences. Yours was the same situation whether you acknowledge it or not, irrespective of magnitude. Even if each parent tried to consider you, all the time, every time, there’s a good chance they spoiled you in that case. I’ve seen it, ESPECIALLY if you’re an only child. It’s all about balance and there is absolutely no shred of hope for balance with a single parent. None! Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying that one way is good and the other bad. I’m saying that a bad marriage is the lesser of two evils and you, as well meaning as you and your parents may be, are categorically wrong. That’s ok, it happens. They can’t all be winners. You’re probably not a rocket scientist and didn’t realize at 4 that you’re smarter than most people, especially your parents. You just don’t understand. The best single parent, whether widowed or divorced or actively trying not to spoil the kid, is OBJECTIVELY worse than a married couple that contains that parent. If she has to endure some beatings or he has to cover for drug use or whatever, so be it. Kids need a mom and a dad, whether examples for good or, like in my case, examples of what not to do. Hopefully the kid is smart enough to be like me and ask themselves if they should follow their parent’s lead or do the opposite. Even if they don’t, at least there was hope for balance. The one, tiny exception I’d make is if at least one of the parents re-marry quickly and positively. There are still wasted resources but in that situation and that one alone there is hope. Unfortunately for many, they can’t know what the future hold going into a divorce. Is that going to happen? How do you know you’re not going to both go horribly downhill?

[@zythe69akaru]

@@EnthalpyAndEntropy You are incredibly arrogant and selfish, you know. I had read some of your other comments after posting my reply, and I can see your parents screwed you up beyond anything I could poasibly help with, and I'm fine with admitting my faults. I never said my parents were perfect; nor am I. But I know I and many others would prefer two happy, healthy parents that happen to be separated (my mom still hasn't been interested in remarrying for over a decade), rather than a pair of people too filled with misery to be available for their kids. Not to mention, the resources argument? How materialistic of you; just because your parents screwed up financially (unrelated to the divorce, mind you), doesn't mean a mother should sacrifice herself for money. My family was terribly off financially both growing up AND after the divorce, and staying miserable wouldn't have improved that. Finances are a multifaceted issue, as are relationships. Just because you think you're smarter than everyone around you doesn't make it the case. Do some soul searching, start to consider that NO ONE should have to put up with abuse and neglect, and learn something about the wider human experience beyond your own misery. On behalf of everyone who has escaped a loveless and/or dangerous marriage and provided for their child better for it: SCREW YOU. And your terrible parents.

[@m105chelle]

As a German, I find it so creepy what is currently going on in America for women's rights, children's education and a lot of other things... it feels like we're depending on a disfunctional country as world police which is so so frightening to me, and I cannot imagine living in this country... much of love and strength to you Americans with common sense and don't forget to vote and get yourself involved in politics ❤

[@mrsslibby6857]

While I absolutely agree that people should vote, unfortunately, in a lot of states that are predominantly right wing, it doesn't make much of a difference. It also doesn't help that the GOP is doing everything they can to make voting as hard as possible for people, especially minorities and the poor. As someone in an overwhelmingly liberal state, I dont have to worry about this happening where I live but I also can't do much about what's happening in other states. Aside from who gets voted in as president and their limited ability to change things, we have very little power. The only thing at a federal level that can really prevent these kinds of things is the Supreme Court but because those seats are life long positions, and it's currently very conservative leaning, they have been siding with Republicans a lot lately. That said people should absolutely vote, especially if you're in a state where these things are being pushed for. Doing what you can to keep these bills from being passed is just about our only hope at this point.

[@chesneymigl4538]

As a person living in America... me too!

[@sarahmacintosh6449]

As an Australian, couldn't agree more with our German friend.

[@Ali626AMM]

You're quite right about the US being world police, but yet awfully out of control in many ways. And while I do my best to vote in every election it doesn't help when the options are bad and worse, when what the people a few states over get an idea that's disturbing and it spreads like poison, or when the people you elect change what they stand for the minute they take office. I despise politics, but have had to really start paying attention or else everything that makes America "free" will be systematically wiped out. First they went after abortion, now divorce, next voting. It's insulting that women are considered so stupid. They could think no higher of us and try to pull this shit.

[@xobrynn90]

We are not the world police.

[@Lifeisnow1234]

As someone who divorced an extremely abusive partner that almost ended my life several times, no-fault divorce quite literally saved my life. I also know folks in other situations like people with partners that are so financially off the rocker that they put the financial safety of their entire family in peril - also very scary.

[@rowast]

I'm so glad you got out, my cousin Autumn didn't, and I am so thankful that Jo is speaking up despite the blowback that can come.

[@wildpurplechild]

I'm glad you got out. Stay strong. ❤

[@hywodena]

It's pretty crazy because, like, technically it wasn't no-fault, but by forcing people to PROVE abuse it adds a major barrier to divorce, a barrier that many people WILL NOT survive.

[@fallon-may0935]

Please tell me the boy(shouldn’t call him a man) is now in prison

[@Lumi_Lumi13]

Glad you made it out alive. That generally doesn't happen. Sincerely~ Another survivor

[@lisajohnson4744]

As a woman who is FINALLY getting out of a covertly abusive relationship, I find the talk about rescinding no-fault divorce laws scares the hell out of me. NOBODY knows what has gone on behind closed doors in my house, and because there were never any physical marks, there is no way I would ever be able to prove abuse. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. But I know that there is a whole lot of malfeasance that one partner can commit that is not “technically” infidelity or physical abuse, yet destroys the marriage in ways that are irreversible.

[@wanderingegg_]

This. The idea of having to prove abuse to get out of a marriage is terrifying. I was in an abusive relationship, but it was mainly emotional/psychological abuse. A lot of tearing down my self esteem, self worth, and mental health. Putting me down. And although it never got physical, save one time, the threat of physical abuse was always there. He made it known what he could do to me. There was also SA. I can’t prove any of this happened. It was only him and I who witnessed any of it, and no cameras or anything like that. So many woman share similar stories, and the idea of no fault divorce not being an option is truly horrific.

[@TheKCaryer]

Define abuse. Not doing as you wish, not keeping up with the Jones, not seeing things your emotional way or leaving to toilet seat up is not abuse. 99% of women play the victim card when they file. 80% of divorces are filed by women and the most common excuse is the emotionally based …I’m not happy” excuse. A nation is only as strong as its families and we are falling apart at the seems. The carnage of single motherhood and no-fault is every where. Not just in the urban teen flash mobs looting apple and footlocker stores.

[@tw8464]

Exactly

[@jakykong]

@@acmhfmggru Aaaaand yep, your message is ”SOL for the victims who can't prove it”, after that other thread this is exactly what I expected. You know what's scary about domestic violence? It can be extremely dangerous to do anything that might upset the abuser. Spouses who try putting cameras up risk being discovered doing that and getting killed before they can file for that "for cause" divorce. That's the worst case scenario but it happens thousands of times every year, domestic violence is the leading cause of murder.

[@jakykong]

@@acmhfmggru Evidence applies to factual claims, this is a statement of values. I firmly believe people should be free to leave any relationship. Done. The "argument" you keep making that men don't benefit without being able to stop that is why I'm calling it misogynistic. And I'm not frustrated, nor venting, but if that helps you handle being called out on a bad opinion, so be it.

[@julienelson8162]

Absolutely right! No-fault is critical to preventing hatred toward one’s soon-to-be ex-partner, as well as the collateral damage to the kids - who ALWAYS know what’s going on, frequently blame themselves, and ultimately struggle throughout their lives to “manage” relationships.

[@borkbork4124]

Literally me Big woop 50% marriages end in divorce. It is a bad marriage that is over. I have had trouble in relationships with everyone, mostly with trust and fidelity, and I mean EVRY relationship: Friends, family, romantic partner, I am so sensitive and therapy helps unpack that. I am scared of dating, I am scared of marriage because I may be trapped, but marriage grants you and your partner many rights instantly, when non married romantic partners cannot or have difficulty accessing.

[@treesap2]

If you think no-fault divorce REDUCES animosity, then you haven't been through it.

[@hyperplaguerat]

A relationship requires two consenting people. The moment one party no longer consents, it's over no matter what the other party thinks. It doesn't matter if the reasons to leave someone is good, it's their right to make that choice. I'm glad you're speaking on this Jo❤

[@barrybrideaux2919]

ok, but then you need to change the who gets what when it ends. many go in with the intention of leaving once they reach that covetted "if i stay x amount of time i get x amount of stuff. The situatuion where only one is committed for life and the other one is in good enough until something better comes along commitment then i just jump ship cause it is easy. I think many of those who are supporting the removal are not trying to trap anyone. They are saying understand the commitment you are making before you say yes.

[@Fraggr92]

@@barrybrideaux2919 No you don't. There's a much much simpler solution. Stop pushing people to get married. Especially young people. It's entirely possible to have committed long-term relationships without being married. Make marriage something that you consider doing when you've been together for like 20 years and you know that you're not going to change significantly before you die. Make it a promise that a person can reasonably make and expect to be able to keep, instead of thrusting it onto people in their 20's who know nothing about neither life, the world or themselves.

[@barrybrideaux2919]

@@Fraggr92 your solution is not a solution to the person who wants to get married on a whim and knows there is an easy out, no one is pushing them to get married. So your don’t push solution is useless. There are also those who look for the advantage of marry this person improve my situation then get out easy with a better situation. Again no one is pushing that person to get married but with an easy out they take advantage of the other person who is committed. Again your solution is useless in that situation cause again no one is pushing that person into marriage they welcome it knowing the exit is easy. So yeah changing the exit ability will deter those people from entering marriage. So yes you do need to do change the exit, your comment does nothing to solve the examples I mentioned here or my previous comment.

[@roberthooper8883]

@@barrybrideaux2919 Don't "push them (I am speaking of men) to get married" - we need to be "PUSHING them to NOT get married".

[@noratheelk3729]

Watching the first clip of the guys saying “that’s permitted” I was filled with rage. I’ve never been married and I’ve never been in a relationship but considering what marriage is; a consenting partnership, why would you want to force someone to stay?

[@Fraggr92]

Marriage has pretty much always been used as a means for elders to "keep kids out of trouble", or in other words force them into alliances that benefit the family first and foremost and has little to do with whether or not the actual people involved want to be in the relationship. It's a means of control, that has really only been about "love" for a relatively short period of time in modern history. Hell, in some parts of the world marriage is still treated as a means of control and a political/business tool. Sometimes it's even outright inclued in contracts that "the son of family x will marry the daughter of family y" etc etc. Marriage has a long and extensive history of being used as a means to trap people. It's nothing new. And since there's always going to be fragile people who want to control others because they can't control themselves, the idea of marriage as a means of entrapment is probably always going to be around. And so it's probably always going to be necessary to fight it and defend people's right to choose for themselves whether they want to be and stay married or not.

[@tw8464]

Marriage was nothing but a form of slavery. Americans today take everything they have like freedom for granted and have forgotten all the terrible realities of the past and so they are now easily manipulated by thieves and fundamentalist extremist nonsense. In the name of God, I hope this country doesn't make Marriage slavery again as the worst dirtbags among us, people who should NEVER be married and deep down know it so trying to use force, are trying to do.

[@carlyar5281]

This is the same guy who, during the divorce proceedings, a video was publicly released showing him verbally abusing his then pregnant wife…. 🚩🚩🚩

[@coach-piotr]

Question to ALL Women out there: - would you support following idea: if your husband will decide that he is unhappy within marriage then he can divorce you, take away half of your belongings and life savings including half of your own house (either purchased by yourself or inherited) on top of that you would lose all your rights to see your own kids. and he WOULD NOT NEED any reason for that divorce to happen. Would you still support no fault divorce if it would work that direction? I wonder ...

[@roberthooper8883]

@@coach-piotr we ALL KNOW the answer to this...

[@garycurry4600]

As a divorced man, those controlling misogynistic people (I can’t call them “men”) make me sick. My maternal grandmother was twice divorced…and I didn’t get it as a kid, but as a man in his late 50’s, I understand. I’m an advocate for keeping no-fault divorce. Please keep on talking about these issues..they make me understand things better from the younger generation’s perspective.

[@finn_20]

As a 21 year old who witnessed a no-fault divorce at 10 years old, it breaks my heart to hear this as a real possibility. My mom was NOT happy. She stuck it out for an extra 3 years on top of an already-5-year marriage because of me and my sister. But we knew she wasn’t happy. My dad stopped helping with us kids, he was constantly lying about what he was eating (he has diabetes and my mom was his caretaker and he was lying about his health- causing more stress and anxiety on her) and he just stopped supporting her or us. To think about no-fault divorce being abolished is kinda terrifying. Because what if this happened 11 years ago? Would me and my sister and our mom be trapped in a house that even my sister and I stopped liking to be in? Would we just be stuck watching our mom get even more stressed and depressed and god knows what other mental health issues because of him? Would we had to have run away in the middle of the night to escape the hell we were in? “Oh but think of the children!” That’s not good for the kids! Being in an OBVIOUSLY toxic household and watching your mom become depressed is not good for children! Realizing your dad doesn’t care about you as much anymore is not good for children! Becoming so aware of the real world and real suffering at 10 and 15 years old IS NOT GOOD FOR CHILDREN! It literally ruins your innocence to be forced to learn that love isn’t always unconditional, even from your own parent! It ruins your innocence to hear Mom and Dad fighting when they think you’re sleeping! It ruins your innocence in so many ways to watch your parents start to seemingly hate each other! I remember the day my mom told me and my sister that she was filing for divorce. As usual, my dad was MIA and not helping her help us understand why it was happening. When we moved out of my dad’s place and got our own, everything was almost immediately better. My mom was happier and she seemed to have more energy. She wasn’t stressed which meant she wasn’t needing to lock herself in her room to get a break from life just to get through the day. My sister and I got to spend more time with the real her- not the her she’d become in 3 years. And my dad ended up trying to be around more often when the “burden” of having to watch kids 24/7 was gone. My sister and I shut that down because we weren’t taking that BS but he did make the attempt. Which shows the divorce was useful on both sides, even if he didn’t want it in the first place and tried to fight it. Taking away the right to escape a marriage that isn’t right (even if there’s no physical ab^se) is so f^cked up. What my mom was going through would be considered emotional ab^se to most people- including me and my sister. But how the hell do you prove emotional ab^se? There’s no evidence, there’s no proof, there’s no way to SHOW emotional ab^se. It’s all words and actions done by the other person. So how do you prove someone’s words and actions that happen behind closed doors? It’s not like everyone lives in a glass house where every detail of their lives are visible for everyone to see. Divorce is the only way out for so many people. And taking away not having to gather enough evidence is so toxic, so f^cked up, and just proves that the government doesn’t care about their own citizens. They just care about control. They can’t say “think about the children” if they’re trying to force people with kids to stay in a toxic environment. That’s not thinking about the children. That’s just using kids as an excuse to control women. Because let’s be honest, that’s what this is. They’re using kids and God as a weapon against women wanting to leave by saying “your kids will be negatively impacted by your selfish decision to try and leave this marriage. And that’s not what you promised you’d do in front of God.” I’m 95% sure that if it was men who were the majority of people who request divorces, this wouldn’t even be a topic of discussion. And let’s set aside the fact that not everyone believes in their God (including me) for a moment. Do you really think God wants people to be miserable and go through emotional, mental, or physical ab^se and have children suffering by being exposed to such awful things at a young age? Do you think he wants to watch his children be in pain? Because I don’t. I think he’d be saddened to see the government forcing people to stay in marriages that lead to pain, suffering, mental health issues, and trauma. But of course, that’ll never be put into the conversation because that contradicts their narrative. And they have to avoid that at all costs, regardless of who gets hurt in the process.

[@Sandra-ct1rd]

Thanks for your story this perspective is so important.

[@finn_20]

@@thebrianchannel9890 First of all, I never said I hated my dad. I’m mad at him for what he did, but I don’t hate him. Second, my mom tried to get me and my sister to keep a relationship with our dad. WE chose not to. Third, he wasn’t disabled to the point where he couldn’t take care of himself. If he was, my mom would’ve stayed. He’s a fully functioning person. He lives alone now and is completely fine. Fourth, I did not tell this as my mom’s story. This is my story. I’m the one who had to watch her suffer because she felt like she had to stay for me and my sister. We were ALL happier after the divorce, including my dad. Fifth, no she did not leave him because he has diabetes. She left because he stopped helping her, supporting her and us, and stoped being around. He came up with excuses constantly to not be a dad and take care of us kids. It was because he stopped being a loving, caring dad and husband that they split. And my mom stuck it out for an extra 3 years before finally saying she couldn’t take it anymore. Sixth, yes we would have been stuck living with him. If they didn’t get divorced, my mom wouldn’t have had the money for us to get another place to live. And finally, do not comment sh^t like this when you don’t know all of the details. I’m sharing the basics of MY story and MY experiences to show that the Republicans’ excuse of “it’s for the children” means nothing because my sister and I were kids and our lives and our mom’s life was exponentially better once my parents got divorced. The point is yeah, people might get married less often if this law passes. But that also means all of the CURRENTLY MARRIED PEOPLE cannot leave their unhappy, toxic marriages unless there’s physical ab^se or infidelity AND they can prove it perfectly.

[@StormsofPeril]

I was 4 when my parents got divorced. I don't remember much of it, but I do know my mom was emotionally abused. For years, we moved to place to place with false promises (from my dad) chasing him around hoping that he'd be apart of it. Divorce is necessary. It's hard, but it's better than being stuck in a toxic relationship. I'm never getting married- no way, no how

[@emmajones8590]

@@thebrianchannel9890 Diabetic people usually aren't disabled. And yes, things seemed to get better for everyone involved after the divorce.

[@tehhazard9029]

idk why people assume getting rid of "no fault" divorce means "no divorce" No-fault divorce allows a couple to divorce without blame or fault. There is a fault, your father was abusive and in most courts this is acceptable for divorce. Marriage use to mean something, it had a punch when someone said it, "yes I'm married" brought respect, a sense of commitment by someone. a sense of trust and reliability. Getting rid of "NO FAULT" divorce is an actual attempt at bringing back the The sanctity of marriage. The sanctity of marriage lies in these choices: to love each other even when you don't like each other and to stay together even when the only thing preventing separation is the simple decision not to separate. In other words the reason people are getting married more is because there is an easy out. Removing "NO FAULT" means people will actually have to have a reason to separate. This would not stop your mother from picking up and leaving the house, there s no law that states that married people have to live in the same house or that ANYONE owns anybody. You wanna prove emotional abuse, ask for help, leave and when people start asking what s going on or why are you guys living separated and you start talking to people the truth comes out. This is what my father did. The look on the judges face when my step mothers MOM showed up ON MY DADS SIDE, was almost enough to prove something wasn't right. I was 14 and testified, my dad worked all day, came home and fed us kids well she went to work. she would come home at midnight(she worked 3pm-1130pm) and would argue with him that he didn't make enough money etc etc well she smoked a pack of cigs a day, got a large dunkin coffee EVERYDAY and she NEVER packed lunch. The 1970s saw a larger increase in divorce rates; no-fault divorce was established in 1969 in California and other states followed suit. Divorce rates in the United States have been steadily declining over the past few decades, but unfortunately, the divorce rate is still higher than it was in the early 1970s. According to the American Psychological Association, approximately 40-50% of first marriages end in divorce. Do you know why death and disease exist? Because Adam and Eve sin'd. The punishment for sin is death by the hand of god, Jesus paid for our sin on the cross, like if someone paid your fine so you didnt go to jail, the judge would allow this even when your're guilty, someone else can pay your fine, thats what jesus did for us. GOD allows suffering because we broke his LAW But is that really how it works? When someone dies from a car accident or terrorists slaughter “innocent” people, is it because they somehow deserved it? This same question arose 2,000 years ago. Certain people came to Jesus asking about two incidents that were in the news. The first was about evil. A number of Galileans were quietly worshiping God when the governor of the region suddenly slaughtered them. The second was about suffering. A tower in the city of Siloam fell on 18 men tragically killing them, and no doubt leaving many grieving friends and loved ones. This is what Jesus said of these two incidents: “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:2-5) WE ARE ALL SINNERS and deserve death. Those born again of the holy spirit sometimes will find them selves not in gods heavenly kingdom because even when you are born again you must still repent and BELIEVE that Jesus is your one and only SAVIOR.

[@kristannestone1748]

My mom was so miserable in her marriage, and STUCK, bc my dad said that the only people who get divorced are the people who don't try hard enough. Which was convenient, bc my mom was the only one in their marriage who tried. She subverted herself so much, I believe it was the reason she got cancer and died at the age of 53.

[@Fraggr92]

Not knocking your mom, just want to dispel the mindset that subverting yourself to your partner's wishes constitutes "trying" in a marriage. That's not how a healthy and functional relationship works. Sure you have to be willing to give a little in any relationship, but the moment when you're expected to give up large parts of yourself and constantly deny yourself your wants and needs for the sake of the other, is when you know that you're in a relationship that's either not going to last or be miserable. A relationship is supposed to be reciprocal. You give a little and you get a little. And "trying" means standing up for yourself and communitcating in a constructive way when something in the relationship is not right. I think this idea of "unconditional love" where people are supposed to love their significant others no matter how they are treated, is something that needs to be done away with fast. It's causing so much pain and harm, and seeing it make a return in conservative circles is fucking upsetting to say the least. Again, no disrespect intended towards your mom. I'm sorry you all had to go through that.

[@kateluvya]

I'm in the middle of a divorce right now. Thank you for talking about this. I've been feeling the societal guilt and it's great to hear someone talk about it. I know it's all in my mind, everyone has been really supportive, but I can't help but feel like everyone thinks I should go back. I can't find the words to explain the relationship, and i feel like no one wants to listen to me complain. I start therapy next week, though, so that'll help.

[@moonsnakesheddingskin]

Y'all same. Gotta have the big talk with the in laws, whom I adore. There needs to be a discord support group or something. Much love your way! 💚

[@awkwardlyrachel5524]

Yes, good job on getting a therapist! Don't worry about what our society thinks; do you see how messed up this place is right now??!!! As for support, here we are! I know that sounds ridiculous, and it kind of is, but the internet is a good place to find all kinds of people for all kinds of things. "Social" support after divorce might be one of those things. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@kateluvya]

@@moonsnakesheddingskin my ex's mom keeps saying she hopes we can reconcile, and i had to be firm with her that this was permanent. I didn't go into detail about him, i always feel like I'm spreading rumors, but he's told her enough that it shouldn't be a surprise.

[@MeppyMan]

Here in my state in Australia, we didn’t even have to go in front of a judge. We filed the divorce online and didn’t even get lawyers involved. The the idea that people have to justify to anyone else why their marriage has to end is gross. It was awful enough as it was without that BS.

[@734ch3r]

It's not about justifying anything: she is fighting to steal his money while playing the victim so all the white knights stay by her side.

[@Fig-vq7rx]

Same reason they have to justify to anyone else their relationship has to start.. that's all marriage is inviting the society into your relationship.. you are able to come and go as you wish if you didn't call everyone to it..

[@Oliviaandtrina]

​@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper are you an idiot 😂😂😂😂 he was born in AUSTRIA, not AUSTRALIA dumb dumb. Oh my gosh I'm cracking up at that.

[@oppenbot1717]

​@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper The hell are you talking about? He was born in Austria, not Australia. And he never even reigned in his home country, so what's your point??

[@solsystem1342]

​@@Fig-vq7rx Oh really? I didn't realize you suddenly lost the ability to leave romantic relationships upon making them official😂 Oh wait, you don't because that would be silly

[@KiKianaKi]

I left an abusive relationship six months before I was supposed to marry him, and it was still hard. I tried to file a restraining order and I didn’t get it because it is so hard to prove abuse in court. The court also doesn’t really consider emotional abuse as abuse. So an emotional abuser who never puts their hands on their partner can trap them and abuse them for life.

[@scottmclaughlin5674]

"an emotional abuser who never puts their hands on their partner can trap them and abuse them for life." ..So, like alimony..?

[@KiKianaKi]

nobody asked your opinion Scott. Abuse is not the same as alimony. @@scottmclaughlin5674

[@meiimacca4054]

I think it's a more nefarious form of abuse, not to compare too much but with physical you have proof, emotional and verbal the victim is bound to think they're crazy. I'm so glad you got out.

[@jayc342009]

@@scottmclaughlin5674 exactly! How many mothers use alimony and child support to abuse their ex husbands?

[@RonBeaulieu]

Well blame yourself, who decides to open their legs for a man? Oh yeah you. Im sure there were plenty of good guys out there. Once again no accountability, a crazy trend for comment sections like this

[@nottheplan4513]

We are in such a horrifying backslide in the U.S. when it comes to human rights. The amount of people who seem to be perfectly fine giving away their rights truly astounds me. I had a perfectly fine childhood, my parents were both good people, but my favorite memory was sitting in the living room with them and their telling me they were divorcing. Neither was abusive to the other but they had been unhappy together for years and it was obvious. Their divorce taught me that it’s okay to look after yourself and get out of relationships that aren’t working. We’re only human - we’re going to make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes and deserve the chance to learn from those mistakes without being tethered for the rest of our life. “Oops, I married the wrong person” shouldn’t carry a life sentence.

[@jamescook498]

How do you feel about attempts to restrict and/or abolish the 2nd amendment? People seem to be against stripping rights away unless it’s rights they are against and then they are all for it

[@dylanschmidt9056]

@@jamescook498 That's hardly comparable if you look at the consequences. I can't name a single other country with an equivalent to the 2nd Amendment, yet hunters still have guns in Canada and Australia or anywhere else. So it clearly isn't necessary for people to have access to guns. The only purpose the 2nd seems to have is obstructing common-sense gun control measures that might reign in America's relentless parade of mass shootings that's not seen anywhere else that isn't an active war zone or overrun by drug cartels. I just looked it up, and Mexico and Guatemala are the only other two in the world. I really don't think it's an essential right. It's like comparing apples to 50-foot-tall giant radioactive spider-legged apples; it's an abomination that never should have been.

[@jamescook498]

@@dylanschmidt9056 that’s not even the point I was making, my point is either be for abolishing rights or against not complain about losing only the rights you care about and everyone else fends for themselves

[@LovelyIKnowx]

@@jamescook498”Human rights” as defined by the UN and other international organizations is vastly different from the Bill of Rights (where the 2nd Amendment is). OP is discussing *those* human rights, not rights from the Bill of Rights. I really really hope that the difference genuinely wasn’t visible to you, because if it was, it stands to reason then that you were practicing the logical fallacies of both equivocation and false dilemma.

[@jamescook498]

@@LovelyIKnowx so your saying some “rights”aren’t important “rights” based on whether you agree with them or not which was the point I was trying to make to begin with

[@jeroenimus7528]

"Liking" this for the algorhytm though it's beyond mindboggling to me videos like these need to be made in this day and age. Then again, I'm lucky in that I live in Europe where there seems (slightly) more sense in the politicians we choose. Also I am blessed with a happy marriage which we both work hard on to keep working throughout rough weather. In any case, this is one of those examples of where legal doesn't always equal moral. Morally speaking a spouse should be able to ask for a divorce without needing the "permission" of the other party or "special circumstances". If that is not the case it's not a marriage, it's legal bondage.

[@brendandor]

It was very recent that no fault divorce was approved in the UK, I would be surprised if there was no fault divorce in all of the conservative countries in europe.

[@socpancake]

Speaking as a fellow European, this wave of toxic conservativism is slowly washing over us right now as well, and I expect things will only get worse if the far right parties have US to point at for precedents of rolling back human rights. Stay informed, use your right to vote, and keep nurturing that marriage of yours ❤

[@jeroenimus7528]

@@brendandor Guess this shows my privilege of having grown up in a north-western european country (and being taken for male which I don't feel I need to contest). Thank you for pointing out. Same for @socpancake I wish we didn't have to but indeed we need to somehow grapple with these far right ideologies.

[@Lexx_BlackberryPheonix]

"Why would you want to be married to someone who doesn't want to be married to You" Perfect, thank you Jo

[@tinkleshartzinpants4221]

Ok, so you don't realize that people will get married to rob the other person, in fact that is the problem. People will marry someone they don't love to divorce them and take everything they own and will even own (in some cases) and leave the other person heartbroken and some have killed themselves (not some women caught in the scam have and had ended their lives to it). Does that answer your question?

[@austindaniels1680]

It's all about the money

[@Lexx_BlackberryPheonix]

@@tinkleshartzinpants4221 right but that's not what we're talking about... People should just have the right to leave a bad situation, why would you want to stay married to a person that doesnt want to be married to you?? Let them leave!

[@GretaThanos]

@@Lexx_BlackberryPheonixThey can leave, they just don’t get alimony in perpetuity.

[@Manon-nk4qu]

"I don't believe in divorce" sounds a lot like "I believe in holding my partner hostage when they don't want to be with me anymore for whatever reason" and that's scary

[@Yfzmarine]

I mean when you say your vows it does say till death 🤷

[@dutchvanl]

​@@YfzmarineThat's assuming you're using traditional vows and not writing your own and (more importantly) IS STILL SUPER MESSED UP!

[@leandervr]

I don't believe in divorce, because I don't believe in marriage. Millions of people every year vow to stay together till death, knowing full well that they'll break that vow if it doesn't work out as they hoped. The whole thing doesn't make sense. I won't tell people not to divorce, but I have several friends who've gone though it and I do wonder wtf they married in the first place a lot. And frankly, I think marrying hurt their relationships. Instead of seeing their relationships as something you constantly have to work on to keep healthy, they act like it'll all sort itself out because they're married and because of that it falls apart.

[@grmpEqweer]

​@@Yfzmarine A certain amount of abused partners get k1lled while trying to leave. Mostly female ones, but sometimes male and nonbinary ones too. "Death do us part," is a bad idea.

[@douglasyoung927]

Yeah, when someone says "let's get rid of divorce" all I can hear is "I casually participate in and perpetuate domestic abuse without consequences"

[@victoriafernandez8183]

My parents divorced when I was 5, and while it was sad, it was also the best thing to happen. My dad had a traumatic brain injury from his time in the military, and his ptsd was completely uncontrolled at the time. My mom had and still has severe hoarding issues as well as a shopping addiction. It was just bad. They constantly fought, and eventually, my dad decided to leave. My mom didn't want him to leave, but he felt that he was not a safe person to be around because of his outbursts. I talked to both of my parents about it, and now, looking back, my dad made the right choice for all of us. No fault divorce was the best option for us.

[@truckywuckyuwu]

Sounds like therapy and counselling for all of you would've been better than a divorce. Even if you had to live separately for a while. But I guess tearing a family apart instead of seeking help was the right thing to do?

[@Missing_Xindi]

There are many people, regardless of political affiliation or religion, who believe that like the commentator she showed. Divorcing in the late 80's/early 90's was extremely punitive to me and difficult. Even with police reports his attorney said "oh, just another woman saying abuse". It took the photos (and police report) of our child's bruises to get a visitation agreement that had protections for the children. (They had regular visitation with their father and he is in their life as much as they want him there). My second marriage has lasted over 30 years. It is shocking to me how people in this country are trying to reverse women's protections. This video is the first time I have heard about this so it has not made it to me in the upper midwest yet. but it is only a matter of time. Thank you for this video.

[@Brigand231]

"It is shocking to me how people in this country are trying to reverse women's protections" Yet another example of why and how the system is broken. You're only interested in protecting woman victims. I survived Hell at the hands of my ex for seven years. She would choke me, sit on me (she was over 400 pounds), pull my hair, and slap me among other things that would take paragraphs to describe, but nobody would believe me because I was a man. I am glad that no fault divorce existed, because it let me get away from her, but the system is designed to favor women at the expense of men. I got away from her torture and abuse, but it cost me the next 25 years of my life to support her. I was literally paying for the privilege of not living with her abuse anymore, but yeah, it's womens' protections that are in jeopardy. Maybe I should have let her slit my throat, at least I wouldn't have to relive it when people say things like this.

[@billmeade9029]

Don't act like it's a republican or a man thing it doesn't matter who you are when you still are in love with someone and they aren't it hurts like hell but no if the other person wants to go there shouldn't be a reason that has to be given people change and they may no longer may be in love it happens but of course your going to try to get them to stay but if they really don't want to no law should say otherwise 😱

[@noodle3218]

@@billmeade9029 but it IS very much a Republican thing. Did you read any of Jo’s sources? I’m not saying no democrats support it, but prominent GOP talking heads, donors/PACS, etc are very much advocating for it while prominent dems are not. As to whether it’s a man thing, I’d argue that it more is, but as I don’t have stays for that (Jo might, but I haven’t read all of the sources yet) I can’t say definitively. It could be just that the GOP is in general more misogynistic and male centered so that’s showing here too since they have far more men in power.

[@billmeade9029]

@noodle3218 ok yeah it was a republican that proposed it but if you took a pool I would bet the house the majority of both left and right wouldn't approve cause that's just plain nuts I don't know what happened to common sence maybe the magnetic poles have flipped or something but seems like people on both sides have lost there minds 🤷‍♂️

[@Brigand231]

If all people are seeing in this issue is the political affiliation of who proposes the bill they've lost the plot. If your only concern in an issue is the letter after someone's name you don't give rat's rearend about the actual issue or harm being done to people. With every issue, especially political issues, you should step back and actually examine the arguments each side is offering and ask yourself WHY they are saying the things they say. Actually consider the perspectives and decide for yourself if they truly accomplish what they are supposed to accomplish. It's fine and well to say that a bill or proposal would not work or has the potential to harm, but if it brings up a legitimate concern it does just as much harm to dismiss it without addressing the actual concern. So, for all the folks who believe or say they believe that the bill should be dismissed because it's a Republican or a man thing, the pressure is on YOU then to encourage Democrats and women to fix the issue. Otherwise you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[@Clownbunnycosplay]

It’s insane to me that people want to control if you can or can not get divorced

[@kimaaron3507]

Meanwhile, fornicating adulteress MTG is worshipped by these same Christian extremists.

[@stuchly1]

Republicans doing whatever they can to bring back the middle ages. But watch how they'd make loopholes for men to leave a woman behind like they're doing already. Funny how the dude can leave and move on but a woman is forced to stick it up because "you're not going to be happy one hundred percent of the time every time." 🙄🙄🙄

[@Rikrobat]

I mean, there are people trying to control who can marry each other and what some people can do with their bodies. It’s frightening but not surprising…

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

​@kimaaron3507 Of course. Evangelical trumpters started with finding excuses for "forgiving" Tr*mp (which is none of their business anyway, he did not cheat on them), and in comparison regarding her marital and infidelity record, MTG is a considerable improvement (which feels wild to be typing, but apparently this is the timeline we are in).

[@kevinfox500]

It's always been that way in some places. Went through mine in NY. There is No no fault option there. Only option us apply for a legal separation, eait a year, and file to get ut changed to divorce. Had an added hurdle with another law, that if Marital Presumption. She gets pregnant, and has a kid, laws says it's her husband's. Period. Only work around is a paternity test. Then, the husband has to appear in family court, and stste, on record, that they accept the results. Ex and I went over the options with her lawyer. I took the "cruel and inhumane treatment " hit, to get it over with. In trade I got a pass on alimony, and got her share of the business, but still keep her on as our office manager, as well as the company paying for her BA from the SUNY campus in town. Known her since high school, and we remain close. Wife and I watched her boys, while she was entolled, and when she was in the hospital for a renal transplant. Our daughter was her living donor.

[@logo9470]

What an important topic. I had no idea this was happening. It is so scary how far back we are going in not just women’s but human’s rights.

[@d14551]

I am 70 years old, so I have seen a number of divorces among the friends I have and in the community where I live. And not one of them was entered into blithely or gone through easily. There was anguish and indecision and trying to make it work in every single one of them. I think that often people get married too quickly, the solution to that is certainly not making ending marriages more difficult.

[@00jyjsarang]

"You must STAY married to me" is no different from "You must GET married to me." If the latter is not legal, the former shouldn't be either. They both force the person to be in a relationship they don't want to be in.

[@indigowanderer1105]

AND they lied their butts off to get the woman to agree to the relationship in the first place. Her consent was NEVER considered

[@adrianwinsett1628]

I didn’t even realize this was even an idea coming forward - this is beyond awful and I cannot imagine where I would be today if the no fault divorce wasn’t in place…

[@lkpeay]

You can always NOT get married

[@solsystem1342]

​@@lkpeay Wow, that's so smart! My mom totally should have considered that A running away while on trial for another crime with me before getting married and just put up with that. Never mind trying to get me out of an abusive situation. None of that matters because no one can prove it anyhow so she should have just stayed with him What a genius idea🤢

[@lkpeay]

@@solsystem1342 if you don’t believe marriage is forever… don’t get married.. just be phuck buddies…

[@Fraggr92]

@@lkpeay Don't worry, they're probably working on removing that right as well right as we speak.

[@tw8464]

You really didn't think it would all stop after the "trickle down" mafia and "more equal" sectarian fundamentalist extremists shredded many legitimate U.S.A. constitutions under guise of "life," did you? They've always had a plan to turn this country into their version of Iran with a "trickle down" mafia grifter in place of Khomeini as a Mussolini Dictator. It's basically the "church" and Franco all over again. This garbage never stops.

[@AlishaHerbiederbie]

As someone who has also been divorced, this far right movement is terrifying. Thank you for using your platform to discuss this, Jo!

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

THIS!

[@WolfAdvocated]

A large portion of DV cases are by Conservative/Republican right wing perpetrators, and I will say far right ideology led to my divorce personally. It is terrifying especially as a woman with daughters.

[@maggiecramer8154]

As someone trying to get divorced in Texas this scares me

[@pjaypender1009]

It's really only pretty recent that anywhere in the US you just leave a marriage. I was an adult before no fault divorce existed in the US. This is exactly the same reason as the rollback of Roe. It's about the control of women. The US was not founded to give rights to anyone except cishet white men who own property. Period. Women weren't ever intended to be equal, and we're headed back there unless quit electing the assholes who are doing this bullshit.

[@mtnmagic1998]

Absolutely agree with you and Jo!

[@redsheep5884]

That is SO messed up! I am french and had no idea this was happening in the US. Abuse or not, if you do not want to be in a relationship anymore, even if you just don't feel like it, you should be allowed to leave. Marriage isn't a prison... I'm so sorry to hear this is going on... Divorce should actually be made easier to get

[@VioletEmerald]

I'm American and had no idea this was happening here either! Crazy and very concerning/ unsettling stuff!

[@laulutar]

I've seen what happens to my friends, when their parents stay together for longer than they should and are just desperately unhappy together and at least one partner ended up being unfaithful. I've also seen what happens to my own friends, when a relationship no longer serves their needs (for example when one partner doesn't want to do their share of the work to keep the relationship going), but they feel they can't leave. It's bad enough when no abuse is going on, so I don't want to end up in a situation where the ability to leave a relationship that's not working anymore, just because abuse or infidelity isn't a thing.

[@datBean]

Pretty sure my parents divorce is a no fault divorce. A therapist told my dad he would be dead in a few years due to the stress unless he left the relationship. Oftentimes, as much as divorce sucks for the kids, it's SO much better than two parents who hate each other in the same house

[@cristyknight645]

I have been married for almost 17 years. Never divorced, however I have seen it. I can not believe that people would say that woman should not be able to do it. I'm sorry but if I am no longer happy and have tried to work it out I wouldn't want to stay. I am happy for you.

[@tianamarie989]

I think that's the part the normal sane Republicans want to see more of. The attempt to work on it. Obviously if it's abusive there shouldn't be any contest to the divorce. But to not have proof of the abuse is a slippery slope. Kind of what's happened with the me too movement.

[@waffles3629]

​@@tianamarie989 so someone should be forced to stay in a relationship they are miserable in just because they weren't abused? That's not marriage, that's prison.

[@okyouknowwhatever]

@@waffles3629 You can still separate physically even if you're still married. You don't have to actually live under the same roof. This is quite common among older couples who grow tired of each other, they separate but they're still married on paper. Thing is today, a lot of people don't take marriage seriously from the get go, so the question one should ask why are these people even getting married to begin with. For the money? As for that Ring video of the man-child threatening his wife and trying to force her to feed the dogs while 8 months pregnant, yeah, that's a pretty clear cut case of abuse. She should never have married him in the first place. I could tell he was a colossal man-child from just watching tiny bits of his extremely juvenile comedy, so it's a bit weird his wife couldn't notice it from an even closer distance.

[@waffles3629]

@@okyouknowwhatever so you want people who can't stand to live with each other to be married? What??

[@okyouknowwhatever]

@@waffles3629 You shouldn't marry people you can't stand. Johnny Depp for instance knew that Amber Heard was a psycho before he married her, because at that point she had already revealed her true colours. She didn't reveal her true colours when they first met, but she revealed them well before they got married. But he still married her. Why would you do that? Only reason I can think of is people don't take marriage seriously enough.

[@candidwings5609]

It won't just make getting out of an abusive marriage more difficult. It will be more DANGEROUS.

[@truckywuckyuwu]

Highly suggest you actually take a look at what's happening instead of just assuming you know what's happening. Or listening to some other woman online talking about how this makes her feel, because she skimmed an article and has a 4 year olds understanding of what's actually happening. They aren't getting rid of no fault divorce. They're making it so money is no longer involved. Its even easier than before to get divorced after this.. because a large part of what made it difficult was financial issues. Of course, with what's being changed. You have to prove abuse to get money from your ex. You can no longer just claim abuse and get a payout. This is actually true no-fault divorce. You can at any point end the relationship if you want, easier than before.

[@shannonfergusson978]

The video of how Crowder was treating his wife was absolutely horrific to see. And that was just one moment of one day. Hearing the very disturbing things he does to his employees and the extremely toxic work place he creates makes it evident that things at home must have been brutal.

[@KaitCervi]

Ah, you've got me confused. Isn't the video Tucker Carlson treating his wife like shit but it's Steven Crowder talking in the clip in this video?

[@swissarmyknight4306]

"If you aren't comfortable with guys playing 'sack tap' in the workplace, this isn't the place for you." Might just be in the top ten craziest workplace statements I've ever heard.

[@douglascampbell9809]

@@swissarmyknight4306 That should read If sexual assault in the workplace isn't for you then maybe don't work here. Something that is expressly illegal all across America. That company is getting sued into non existence.

[@metallsnubben]

@@KaitCervi If we're talking the video where he's screaming and not letting her use the car (among other things) that's crowder

[@KaitCervi]

@@metallsnubben yah, that's the one I'm talking about, but I was thinking it was Carlson.

[@KickstandOptional]

Definitely outside your usual subject matter but I'm glad you made this. It's always good to see that people I respect fall on the right side of this.

[@BubberTubber]

It's some real dystopian stuff. Why would you even want to be married to someone who doesn't want to be with you? People like Crowder don't think that women are people. It's messed up. Great video, thank you!

[@Sandreline]

No-fault divorce is a necessity of a free society.

[@mrkennedy4394]

Right! How the hell are the 'land of the free' right wing nutjobs trying to say you aren't allowed a divorce. I'm so glad I leave in an actual free country. Number 2 last time I checked. Think America is number 15 or in the early 20s! ETA just checked we are number 2 and the US is number 15. Proud of myself for remembering that😂

[@ariannadravis3934]

The only opinion that's right!

[@ariannadravis3934]

@@simonomis94 False.

[@ariannadravis3934]

@@simonomis94 I mean, more on the subject of there cannot be objectively correct opinions. When it comes to human rights there is only one option, and that's the one that gives us human rights. By removing no-fault marriage, it is taking away a powerful tool meant to fight against abusive relationships. It is easy to explain physical abuse, but mental is much harder, especially to older indiviuals who never expierenced it themselves to explain. A lovers spat they'll call it, shaming you for "giving up so easily" when it is so much more then that. Hell people will shame themselves, that's what happens. It protects everyone, not just women, from these situations.

[@salaltschul3604]

But the US government doesn't want that. It wants you to be "free" by its own definition. In a Christo-fascistic society there is no freedom.

[@FortKnoxMovies]

My father recently divorced my now former step mother. She was horribly abusive to him throughout my child hood. I think he might be in Jo’s neck of the woods Colorado Springs. Thank god he was able to end things with her. Towards the end me and my sister were actually scared for his life! It’s horrible that people think they should take that right away. Great video Jo! This could not have been easy for you to make. Keep fighting the good fight.

[@perryostrander4648]

It's about the children she's leaving with the children after the decision she made to have them your ex doesn't give you $20,000 a month for a dog and not have the ability to see them

[@tw8464]

Exactly

[@philswift791]

I divorced my wife of 35 years, she is a vulnerable narcissist. My life was hellish but I stayed for my daughter. She had affairs threw things at me and generallyabused me at everylevel. In the end a marriage counselor we went to told me to leave. In the no fault divorce I have ended up paying my abuser 800/month, paying her lawyers fees, all of the debt we had. While she kept our possessions and home which is paid for. This seems like it was my fault for finally giving up and actually following medical advice, this wasn't the first time I had been told to leave. So once again no fault divorce is not no fault. I will tell you that my health is better physically and mentally. I am happy for the first time in my life. So while the judgement sucks and I am not really divorced. It was still worth it. So yeah where are my rights oh yeah I don't have them I am a man.

[@bigdaddytrips6197]

LOL

[@KarateCowboy05]

In your case no fault divorce is not necessary or at least should not be necessary. Your case is not what people like Michael Knowles a talking about when they express reservations about no fault divorce

[@alanlinnell6817]

@@philswift791 I'm sorry about that Sir. My older brother went through a betrayal in his marriage and people mostly took her side and coddled her! Wow, that kind of damaged my romantic notions of marriage for me. It looks like the male is often minimized and blamed for what other people do. Crooked and biased judges and lawyers do the other dirty work.

[@rachel_sj]

“Suffering that doesn’t lead to growth is simply masochism” I was reminded of this quote as I watched this video. I haven’t even been married for a full year, but already, my spouse and I have grown so much during that time (being neurodivergent is fun!) and the pain and lessons learned coming out on the other side make the journey worth it (and we’re only just beginning). People advocating to eliminate No Fault Divorces want to grasp at any kind or size of power they can, both on a grand societal level and in an interpersonal level. In this sense, they want slavery to be legal again…

[@kathybramley5609]

Growth for growths sake is the ideology of a cancer was a standout quote from Triangle of Sadness (perhaps misquote, I remember it as Woody Harrelson's Captain charachter saying mindset not ideology) of Ecological philosopher Edward Abbey) from Triangle of Sadness. Growth is a weird abstract concept. I just don't get it it, it spooks me, makes me feel weirded out. Like a Bermuda Triangle odd-news kind of other-worldly vibe to me. It sounds alright when some people say it, I get it that they're talking about positive change but there is a lot of toxic positivity and grifting/American dream/lies of culture/toxic productivity vibes and vibes suggestive of the gamut, the full spectrum of possible spiritual abuse contexts from New Age to over-spiritualised artistry to various flavours of christianity to kabbala and all other religions and flavours of them, growth is a cheesy goal that can cover a multitude of sins, to me, despite my sympathies with the idea of journey and the pragmatic side of offering grace to each other & ourselves often, even going beyond & ditching the 'undeserved' grudging connotations. I dunno, there's no perfect answers, but that's a circumspect admission not an excuse.

[@davidgoldsberry9862]

I’m 62, you mentioned how hard it used to be to get divorced and mentioned that you had to be really abused. Here’s a nightmare fact: men could not rape their own wife.

[@Hyperlophus]

Yep. That’s still a really grim fact in a lot of places, unfortunately, that marital rape isn’t a prosecutable crime because if you are married it implies consent. 🤮 🤢 In those places, it’s not against the law to force your partner in marriage to do sexual acts with you regardless of whether or not they want to and whether or not it harms them emotionally or mentally.

[@divergentdreamer]

​@@Hyperlophus This gets even scarier when we consider that in some states, 13-year-old girls can get married with parental consent.

[@kerraptregolls4929]

I can’t imagine having to, by law, stay in a miserable marriage.

[@734ch3r]

Yeah, the man can't expect sex from his wife, but has to pay the bills and keep the ungrateful kun7 happy or she will use Big Daddy Government against him

[@bosstowndynamics5488]

​@@734ch3rNo person can demand access to anyone else's body without their consent. If you see women as source of sex instead of humans with their own thoughts and feelings then it's a good thing you're put off of the idea of marrying them. And if you see sex as a trade for money then hire a prostitute who actually chooses to engage in a trade of money for sex instead of pretending you want a life partner.

[@miashinbrot8388]

I appreciate you talking about this, and yes I would like to see more videos like this. I would also point out that removing no-fault divorce is a DISincentive to a partner "doing the work" to keep their marriage together. Why bother, if they know their partner has to stay with them anyway?

[@katydid5088]

Or alternatively, what's stopping people from just NOT getting married? Even the terms for a domestic partnership in today's day and age are legal partnerships with some sharing of assets and tax advantages but the laws surrounding a dissolution are both more and less transactional than a traditional marriage. Far from encouraging people to get married it means people who find themselves having made poor choices and in need of safety being damned or those who simply would have dissolved their marriage over differences still stuck. Laws rarely meet a test for nuance until the precedent is set in court. If they want examples of how desperate it used to be see suicides,see the "Brighton Quickies" see the number of mistresses and affairs people had. Especially when one person has most of the money or power, the only way most people left was through death. No one wants an Anne Bolynne in the modern day. No one should want to hire a private investigator to fake extramarital affairs. Evidentiary standards for these things are bound to be horrible to prove and the only person it protects is the abuser.

[@roberthooper8883]

​ ellycowley3535 lmao yeah the "victim" lol... how many times have women been caught faking being abused? How many times have women been the first to want to file for divorce because of their little emotions getting out of whack with no legitimate discernable, reality based reason (78-85 percent is the stats on WOMEN filing for divorce)... Women statistically cheat more than men. The court system is incentivized to grant divorces, alimony, child support etc because the system makes money on it and the women have financial incentive because she gets half of things she did not directly earn. AGAIN- we have awoken.

[@steve6135]

That’s insane that somehow people are considering getting rid of those laws. I’m divorced, my ex wife talked to me one night and said, she didn’t feel that way about me anymore. We had been together for 7 years by that point. We talked about it, and since I only want my SO to be happy in the relationship, I agreed and we moved on with our lives. It wasn’t fun by any stretch of the imagination, but why would you want to keep someone who isn’t happy in a situation that’s making them unhappy? That makes less than zero sense to me.

[@johnsonjj117]

but should she be entitled to half of everything, even if it forces you to have to sell your home

[@dutchvanl]

The whole idea of getting rid of no fault divorce is absolutely terrifying. It's already so difficult to leave abusive relationships even when you're not married, especially verbally/emotionally/financially abusive relationships. FFS, what kind of narcissistic, controlling slimeball wants to force someone who's miserable to stay with them? 😬

[@maskedmallard537]

The kind who see women as sex machines, babymakers, housekeepers & cooks, in other words, a servant or toy and not an actual human being with thoughts and feeling and needs of their own. Women are just things they feel they own. These guys need to crawl back to the primordial ooze from which they sprung.

[@mgtowbylogic5592]

Fault divorce is still there. It’s just almost no one uses it because it costs more and it requires a reason. And since women love to shift goal posts and generally avoid accountability, having the option to just “cuz I said so” divorce has been a boon for them. It’s also one of the main reasons why the marriage and the birth rate are at an all time low. Which I think is great. Men are thanking you for freeing us from having to care for you and clean up your messes. Thank you a million times.

[@Aaron-SLC]

don't use logic. she'll get upset

[@hedgieandfriends1796]

thank you for talking about this. my parents got a divorce not too long ago because my dad was just not healthy mentally, he was traumatized as a child and could not get the help he needed and that stayed all the way to his adult life, and in his marriage he could not get the mental health he needed.(cause of his trauma he did not ask for help) the divorce it self was peaceful and is good for both people involved. all that to say there are 'good' seemingly marriages that and not good internally. now my dad is getting the help he needs and as a result me and my mom are too. so thx for understanding and shedding light on this.❤

[@ireney3]

Marriage, and divorce is between two mature adults who knows what is happening and need to stop. Thanks, Jo, for sharing this 🌺

[@jodishapiro9257]

I’m not a lawyer, but I can tell you for a fact that if they try this, there will be a challenge to the law based on the unconstitutional nature of banning divorce because it would violate the establishment clause as certain religious groups do protect the right to divorce. Jewish women, for example, can technically speaking demand a divorce on numerous grounds, such as their husband, not being able to perform satisfactorily in the bedroom. Or if he decides to say they can’t work. Just like abortion rights us Jewish women will have everyone’s back here and we will be fighting for women’s rights across the board on the grounds that they are enforcing Christianity on us.

[@davelee5843]

Thanks for making this video Jo. I got out of two abusive relationships, many years ago. First, I divorced my ex wife, then I became an open atheist. I say 'became an open atheist' because I was a closeted atheist for years but kept it quiet to fit in with others around me. My secret weapon is one that everyone should have or get... I don't give a f*** what others think about me! Love your videos, thanks for the chat, Jo! 💜

[@NervousSteel]

I genuinely don’t get how a person could think that a relationship which has fallen apart so much that one of the people is willing to go to court to end it would be improved by “just sticking it out”. If someone is in a relationship with someone they don’t want to be with, forcing them to stay will only make it worse.

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

Your comment is true if and only if children aren’t in the picture. If there are children, divorce is guaranteed to make their outcome worse. Would it be better for the kids to have two parents who love each other? Absolutely! Are they better off if they are raised by a single mom or spend every other weekend at dad’s? Unequivocally not! I knew I was smarter than my parents by age 4. They got divorced when I was 11. A lot of my peers have kids at various stages of development and I’ve been doing a lot of reflection lately regarding parenting… My parents are horrible people. I saw them at their best and continue to see their decline, more rapidly in retirement. I did as well as I have in spite of them thanks to my intellect and it’s sad to see them go from stupid and selfish to stupidest and most selfish. My mom beat my dad. They both wasted money. They stole from and lied to their kids. BUT at least they served as at least a check or balance against the hegemony of the other. While resources before might be wasted on drugs here or a boat there, at least they weren’t wasted on two rents like after after they had to sell the house. They couldn’t flippantly make asinine rules for the kids and leave the kids powerless with respect to appealing them; previously we could talk with a parent. They knew when it was appropriate to call an uncle or what the cops would or wouldn’t constructively do. It was years after the divorce when I could at least address the latter issue. In high school, when I was fit enough to take both parents physically, I put my foot down and told them that if they weren’t reasonable they’d get the business, with my fists. I should have been emancipated but that’s easier said than done. If you have kids, you owe it to them to take beatings or cover for drug abuse or whatever, even if it gets you killed. You chose to have them; they didn’t choose to be born… into an overcrowded world that is adversarial to them. Leave and you’re stealing resources better used for them and you’re leaving them more vulnerable than before. Even if you think you’re perfect and you can do a better job alone, you’re not and you won’t.

[@LipStickBPopin]

​@EnthalpyAndEntropy This is a fucked up mindset. You are asking people to be treated inhumane for the sake of children? While parents have a duty to their children to a certain extent, they are people, not martyrs.

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

@@LipStickBPopin my mindset is correct. You and people like you are why the world sucks.

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

@@LipStickBPopin PS - I’m sorry you can’t understand. You use that word but if you had any clue what duty means you wouldn’t say the crap you did. You’d happily be a martyr for your kids if that’s what it takes. You’re a selfish boomer or the product thereof if you can’t get it.

[@TheGreenTaco999]

@@LipStickBPopin So shall we get rid of alimony or be hypocrites? You have a moral, legal, ethical, and total responsibility to the human children you choose to create and yes I will ask of a parent to undergo pain for the sake of their children and so will any decent parent. If you're unwilling to do so then do not have children, you're not ready for the responsibility. If you marry AND have children when you weren't ready for the responsibilities, then it doesn't matter what anyone else does, you will necessarily be quite upset in life and even getting your way won't help you. One solution would be, in the case that people seemingly lack the ability to responsibly choose for themselves, to restrict who gets to make children. Children are not your possessions for fun, they are not your toys for when you're bored with your life. You get to choose your spouse, the child didn't choose you, your spouse, or even choose to live. TL;DR He's not asking for someone to be treated inhumanely for the sake of children, he's saying it's not inhumane because it's for the sake of children.

[@v3ru586]

"don't throw away your relationship for no reason, you'll regret it" And I just wanted to break up with my boyfriend. A relationship that to this day I don't know how it started, I was just told by my teachers when I mistook his romantic gestures for harassment and seeked help. The concept of marriage scares me, and people trying to save strangers' relationships with the law doesn't help matters. Because as you said, you don't know how their life looks. You don't even know how they feel about the obligations that come with relationships, even if some claim the contrary.

[@Calyaer]

I heard about this when it was first happening and it genuinely made me feel kinda sick. My sister amicably divorced from her then-husband because she had a life she wanted to live, and her then-husband just didn't fit into that life, nor did he make an effort to fit into that life. My sister has grown so much since her divorce, and if she had been disallowed this, if she had been trapped in that life that was bad for her, it would just be a huge depression pit for her, her husband, and their kids, if they had any. She and I both knew that from experience being the kids in that situation. And even without my sister's experience, why the hell does it matter what some old guy thinks about somebody else's divorce? Why is he trying to perpetuate HIS ideals onto everyone else? The world doesn't revolve around you, dude; people have experiences that are different from your own and that's THEIR business, not yours. ...I say that, but the reason is pretty obvious. Jo mentioned it, many other people in the comment section mentioned it. It's about control. And power. All of what's been going on for the past few years in America, the fights over trans rights, the fights over abortion, and now the fight over divorce... it's all out of a disgusting, perverse desire for power over others. I'm so tired of this.

[@peachxtaehyung]

I swear my state (texas) make me more ashamed of it everyday... Smh i cannot. Like oh heaven forbid the woman be able to make our own decisions in marriages 🙄

[@sahawk0709]

We were thinking of retiring there but the state is going downhill fast. What the heck are they thinking!

[@peachxtaehyung]

@@sahawk0709 right?! And I am stuck here too because I cannot afford to move, can't travel in car very long due to my pain and then can't fly due to having chiari malformation and a shunt in my brain as well! So yeah... I'm stuck here for whatever they do ughhhh

[@My20GUNS]

America is about freedom and the freedom to quit/walk away is something to be cherished. We all fuck up and no one deserves to be trapped because they chose the wrong person.

[@lene.auestad]

Yes, I am somewhere else in the world - in Norway. I enjoy your videos, and I think this far-right movement in the US is terrifying. The US has always seemed conservative from a European point of view in some respects, though the Trumpism of recent years is worse than many of us might have imagined. Thank you for speaking up about this!

[@emmajones8590]

The stories of women not being able to access abortion even for urgent medical reasons are getting increasingly scary. Women are going to die due to these restrictions. Some almost have already.

[@Tree-House69]

Just know many Americans are wanting to escape this new wave of regression, but the latest economic collapses have made most financially and educationally incapable (because education is so financially devastating in most of the US)

[@idalarsen2540]

Samme her, Norge. Not eveeything is perfect here either, but damn.. we are SO FREE and well off compared to people in the states, it´s absolutely shocking. Hell, our right wing politicians are more like america´s left wing politicians. it´s INSANE.

[@AnnabethOwl]

I have cousins in Norway and I always wanted to move there especially since the US started taking away woman rights

[@emmajones8590]

@@AnnabethOwl It's set to get worse, because ObGyns are leaving the red states, as they feel they can't give their patients the best care and are afraid of lawsuits.

[@balloonheart7]

Thank you for talking about this. I just got divorced earlier this year. I’m disabled. I had a hard time as a survivor of emotional abuse, incl. financial abuse. That leaves no evidence! Everyone should have the freedom to leave!!

[@angelwing159]

this also worries me because child marriage (between 14-16) are increasing. A good portion of those marriages end in a very messy divorce but are stilled labeled no fault divorce.

[@mary-janereallynotsarah684]

I thought about those too. Now the kids can't get out at all?

[@Fraggr92]

@@mary-janereallynotsarah684 That's the point. Consider the amount of assaults against children by adults that happen in churches and other religious environments. Then consider how many christians also happen to be conservative. Then consider that conservatives are the ones pushing hard for the removal of rights and protections put in place for women and children against abusive and manipulative relationships. Think that's a coincidence? Sometimes reading between the lines is a good skill to have.

[@ONEIL311]

​@@mary-janereallynotsarah684 quite honestly most states don't actually have no fault divorces now but are called that because the court system and state laws in America is so fucked. In reality this what happens when you ignore the problems of half the population for decades and they decide to flip the table because they are fucked either way

[@samcshaffer]

This is actually so disturbing. It's very clear a person who wants to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't want to be with them is a dangerous person. That violates our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hope that this is declared unconditional.

[@mgrey9066]

The assholes who say “just work it out” don’t care that some people just don’t give a shit about their partner.

[@fluffykitten992]

Exactly don’t they think you tried that already you can only try to work it out for so long

[@Sandreline]

Or that people change or don't realize what they're getting into.

[@chipsdad5861]

It is not surprising that women do not understand why NO FAULT divorce is so devastating. Women normally leave marriage with assets. Men leave marriage without assets.

[@keel0611]

Thank you so much for speaking up publicly about this, the more voices that condemn this movement the better.

[@Newton-Reuther]

I was very surprised to see a "political" (it shouldn't be a political issue but it is) by Jo. But I am sure that people will see this video that may not hear this opinion anywhere else. Thanks Jo! And sorry if there's anyone who complains about "staying in your lane."

[@corahanf2310]

The critical part of these stances that people miss is "I don't believe in (X) *FOR ME*." Whatever it is: divorce, marriage, abortion, abstinence, etc, that's the piec that's missing. If you want to stay married no matter what. No matter how miserable you are, no matter if the relationship is healthy or not. That's your choice. And you should be free to make it. But if someone else chooses something different that's valid too. We need to remember that if we're going to call ourselves the land of the free we need to think about what that means.

[@brendanoneill1466]

this is a really important topic. I too have divorced. My ex and I did separate and we both ended up in No Fault states. You can in PA file for At Fault (abuse, infidelity, cruelty, abandonment), but the norm is No Fault. What it is very amusing, not that anything in this topic is amusing, is that the men want to retain the right to no fault divorce, but want to take that right away from women. This also crosses over the separation of church and state line. The Sacrament of Matrimony is not the same as a legal marriage. It is recognized as being the same, but....the Sacrament has a lot more weight. Legal marriage is purely for the purpose of assets and property. Frankly...you are so right. The Legal right to No Fault divorce is second to only a woman's right to control her own health decisions.

[@bishplease4363]

Wow. Well, I'll never get married again. First husband was a cheater. Second was abusive and even beat me after I came home from having my leg amputated. Neither showed their true colors until after we married.

[@alisahausgaard973]

Thank you! I decided to leave my husband of 30+ years. This was after years of counseling and trying to solve issues that he did not see or want to work on with me. I'm currently going through the divorce process and that is equally as difficult. I can't imagine anything more personal or private to have to involve strangers in. I agree the current process is strange and difficult. It would be horrible to have our ability to leave an unhealthy/ unsafe marriage removed. I agree about the other person owning you if you couldn't leave.

[@thecheck968]

I’m a “child” of divorce. I add the quotes because I was 19 when my mom finally left my dad. My mom first thought she could change my dad, but after a while, she stayed with him for the sake of me and my siblings. Those 19 years left me miserable and resentful. For most of my childhood I was waiting for my parents to divorce and when it finally happened, it was like vomiting: awful and sudden, but left you relieved. If it were up to my dad, the marriage never would’ve ended. He was abusive, but with no tangible way to prove it. I was miserable and I can’t even imagine how my mother went through for the entirety of her marriage. So, tell me, how is a court supposed to know?

[@hyperfocused7029]

I really like the way you put it, comparing it to vomiting. A visceral description(literally and figuratively)

[@okyouknowwhatever]

It's quite a narcissistic trait believing you could "change" someone. You should never go into a relationship with that perspective in mind. Many women like so-called "bad boys" because they think they're exciting and give them a tingle between the legs, but that they can "tame" or "change" them later on. Well, doesn't always work that way lol.

[@gailkrumenacker2089]

I find this horrifying! How is “breaking a promise “ worse than locking someone in a miserable situation for life? I strongly believe in marriage and take my vows seriously but I definitely don’t believe that those vows come before the wellbeing of the people involved. Thank you for sharing this information. I had no idea that this was being discussed.

[@johnsonjj117]

a person’s misery is most often their own doing

[@runnerfrog13]

Exactly. My vows are serious for me because I see it as my responsibility to live up to them, but I don't believe that means shackling a spouse who doesn't want to be with me. Plus, everybody deserves to be in a relationship with someone who wants to be with them! Not a begrudging relationship or out of obligation.

[@dancheng3014]

(1) I'm from a country without divorce - my parents separated when I was 2 - they stayed separated even if they're still married on paper. (2) Not being able to divorce someone is not the same as not being able to leave. If you want to leave, just leave. If your spouse physically prevents you from leaving, that's illegal - call the cops. (3) The real issue will be the ability to marry again. If you stay married on paper, you cannot officially marry someone else - you can be in a relationship with someone else, start a family with someone else, but you cannot be married to someone else on paper. That's it. (4) It sounds like some false equivocation when people try to really lean into "getting trapped" and being "prevented from leaving". Nobody can legally physically prevent you from leaving - not even your spouse. They have no legal power over you to make you stay. (5) Another issue might be the splitting of the properties - if you stay married on paper then yeah, that would be a big issue. (6) So yeah, while trying to ban no-fault divorce is problematic, I don't think it's about physically imprisoning someone - you can always leave. The real problems are (1) the ability to marry somebody else and (2) money, money, money, etc.

[@runnerfrog13]

Many times the "getting trapped" and "prevented from leaving stuff" comes from learning about and/or experiencing some pretty awful domestic violence or abusive situations, whether as a child or as an adult. Financial abuse and emotional abuse are weapons wielded by abusive spouses as ways to "trap" their partner in the marriage. One consideration you didn't mention was children. There is a lot of precedent for a married partner who leaves and takes the children with them as cause for the other partner to file legal action that prevents them from leaving. If not from physically leaving the house, at least from physically leaving the city. And sometimes they're even ordered to have their children live with the spouse they are attempting to leave, who may be abusive. How does a parent choose their own physical safety (leaving the house) or potentially their children's physical safety like that? So a victim parent may feel trapped into staying as a shield for their children. Another situation related to children is that without a divorce, the parent who has custody (usually the person who has the job, or who didn't walk away) may control access to those children. At least with divorce, the person who leaves has visitation rights that are spelled out and they can get enforced. Another situation that can happen is that even if a spouse can't be prevented from physically leaving, that doesn't prevent them from being unsafe or physically stalked by their partner. It can be horrifically difficult to get a protection order against a spouse in the US. There have been some really sad situations where I live of a spouse being denied a protection order and then later dying from domestic violence. Oftentimes places will give out your contact information to a spouse, even when you don't want that spouse to have it. (workplaces, coworkers, your church...) There are also medical rights that spouses have which a person wanting to leave may not want the other to have. Gaining access to medical records, making medical decisions in case of severe injury, and the like. For women in the US, you can't get a hysterectomy without permission from your husband, as one example.

[@lisapt6702]

I had no idea this movement was happening, but I can’t say I’m surprised. How long before women can’t work without their husband’s permission, own their own bank accounts, or buy a house without a man’s signature on the paperwork. I’m old enough to remember the “good” old days - and they were awful

[@emmajones8590]

I remember reading a very creepy article written by an older lady, from a time that a husband's consent was needed for an abortion. This lady had an ectopic pregnancy and needed an immediate termination. But her husband was working out of state and couldn't be contacted. The hospital delayed the procedure for days until they could find him. He was shocked and consented immediatly. The situation was very different though for the unfortunate lady she was sharing a room with. This lady was married to a strict Catholic farmer, it was the first pregnancy, he wanted / needed kids and he was a non believer in divorce. She was bleeding out badly due to a complication and needed an abortion combined with a hysterectomy. The husband refused his consent. She died. That suited him well, as he was able to remarry without needing a divorce and he wasn't stuck with an infertile wife for the rest of their lives. Religion without compassion can make people behave like monsters.

[@helenbryant404]

I think religion has a lot to answer for. The sooner we grow up as a species, the better, in my opinion.

[@higurashikai09]

​@@emmajones8590religion is honestly such a horrible toxic thing that is used to control people

[@lucianh9465]

first, you dont OWN your partner, they're a separate person! with feelings, emotions, needs and a will of their own. second, its not a moral failing to get a divorce. people change over time, what you wanted and needed at the time you got married can change and become incompatible with the wants and needs of the person youre with. its fine. third, nobody who feels like they have to force their spouse to stay married to them could possibly be a good domestic partner who respects the feelings, needs and autonomy of their spouse. i have a very hard time believing that a person who wants to change laws so somebody cant leave them sees that person as an individual and not a possession, something mutually exclusive with respecting the autonomy of another person. and finally, as someone who lived with parents in a relationship that should have ended years before it actually did, forcing people who dont want to be together to stay married "for the sake of the family" creates more misery and trauma. my mom stayed married to my father for 19 years because she thought it was best for my siblings and i. it wasnt. turns out, trying to fix something that cant be fixed makes the problem worse! who would have thought.

[@johnsonjj117]

depends if you’re Christian or not, which you obviously aren’t.

[@lucianh9465]

@@johnsonjj117 I'm not, my parents are. the thing is, they believe in a loving god who doesnt want people to be miserable for their entire lives.

[@johnsonjj117]

@@lucianh9465 Is it the same God that said any relationship after a divorce was akin to infidelity which under old Law was death. New Law omitted the physical death but the spiritual death remained. Any believer who chooses divorce hasn’t read the Bible carefully enough or doesn’t think it applies to them. I’m all for personal choices and understand not everyone believes the way I do, so take my opinion with a huge grain of salt.

[@knrdvmmlbkkn]

"its not a moral failing to get a divorce." It absolutely is! You're supposed to stay married "until death do you part".

[@aylagriffin3310]

I feel so lucky that my ex and I were able to get a no fault divorce and amicably work together afterwards to build something where we can both live close, that our daughter has the freedom to choose where she wants to be and that since we share the same property. We can work together like this, but made horrible partners for each other romantically. We're all so much happier this way, and it means we can focus on the priority: raising a happy, healthy, well-adjusted human!

[@kobaltkween]

My mom was a clinical social worker whose clients included couples. She told me that many did split thinking that they weren't with the "right" person, because things were hard. The myth of the perfect soul mate is prevalent and strong. So yeah, I think lots of people suffer through divorce because they believe that they can have a relationship without the deeply disturbing and difficult aspects of sharing a life with another flawed and limited human being. But she also told me that by the time she saw couples, most of women were exhausted and done working at the relationship, while the men were just beginning. Are there more and more people (most vocally, men) putting effort into holding out for a romanticized, self-serving, transactional version of romantic partnership where they don't have to deal with the other person's emotional limitations or needs? Yes. Are those people the majority of US divorces? Impossible to say, but probably not. Frankly, IMHO, that's irrelevant. There are way more plentiful and severed proven detriments to eating fast food or breathing air full of car exhaust, but we aren't forcing people to prove they need to eat out for lunch or drive a high emissions vehicle. Even if divorce is a lazy, selfish, bad decision, there's so very many freedoms that should go away before that. Like the freedom to make a fortune on healthcare services and products that people need to function.

[@DanSlaughter85]

My wife would be ☠️ if she couldn't get divorced from her ex. He would have never let her go. It is absolutely disgusting these men saying these things. It not about "unhappy" people change throughout their life. People need to mind their own business. Im so so angry. It dangerous how they are slowly stripping women's rights. People please vote 💙. Please vote these people are dangerous.

[@harveynorton3666]

Thank you for sharing your views. My divorce was devastating, and my family said all those "stick it out" kind of things.

[@anamariefalk3796]

As a child of divorce with parents who got divorced when I was 5, even though my childhood was rough as a result- I’m really glad I didn’t have to live with two parents who were unhappy together

[@BobSuzanne]

I consider myself more politically informed than most people. I've followed Crowder's divorce story when it first came out. I didn't realize how many Republicans were reconsidering no fault divorce. This is disgusting and horrible. Thanks for sharing the information and your thoughts. ❤ love your content ❤

[@johnsonjj117]

In my state, it’s almost impossible to contest a no fault divorce as being a single fault divorce. Single fault divorces happen and often times the victim gets screwed over in court

[@ThePixel1983]

Look into the past, there you'll see what the republicans will try to reintroduce later on...

[@ScriptureShores]

The Crowder couple could get an at-fault divorce, if the circumstances warrant it. Please don't let Crowder tarnish the value of marriage.

[@23Butanedione]

​@@ScriptureShoresthese people are dumb, lonely and pathetic. They will believe anything that supports the idea that they don't have to be responsible, get married and properly raise a family

[@Nil-tz6gy]

Ive only heard people speaking of getting rid of it because women often take everything, including custody of the kids, even if the father is the better parent/mom is awful - Lot of good dad's screwed over by vengeful petty women. I'll def be looking more into this

[@mattregan1862]

Respectfully, I do not think that the argument against no-fault divorce is being made very well, so please allow me to fix that. While Divorce is a good thing for many individuals it is a terrible thing for society as a whole. The proof of that is found in the outcomes, the largest predictive factor of whether a child is going to grow to be successful is whether or not that child grew up in a home with both parents, Over 80% of our prison population comes from single-parent homes, the vast majority of our homeless population comes out of single-parent homes, with some studies suggesting that almost 75% of our homeless men being from single-parent homes. Also, a child from a single-parent home is astronomically more likely to suffer CSA than one from a home with both parents. This is one of those situations where two seemingly contradictory things can be true at the same time, On the one hand, we have your very good and valid arguments as to why no-fault divorce is a good and necessary thing for the individual, on the other we have equally good and valid arguments as to why divorce is a terrible thing for society. So what is the solution? I don't know, but I believe that neither side has the whole answer, We should not abolish no-fault divorce, but we need to do something. I believe that both sides need to sit down and come up with a compromise that mitigates the damage to society and the Individual. Will it be perfect, no, but it will be better than what we have now. You made a very good video, it was a pleasure to watch, Thank you for taking the time to read what I have to say and providing me a space to say it. Have a wonderful day.

[@evelynkrull5268]

I just divorced my ex-husband because he went the whole relationship being dishonest about one of my big dealbreakers (on your divirce announcement was the first time I mentioned to anyone that I was considering divorce) and this whole situation freaks me out. I'd be fine with being married again someday but considering I was lied to for 11 years and consented to a marriage 8 years ago without pertinent information that he knew would make me leave because I told him so... the fact that I might have to have stayed married to him makes me second guess if I ever want marriage again. Because the way the states are going I could never have an out again and that makes me never want to marry again even if I'm in love

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Solidarity! Finding out that one is married to a person who doesn't actually exist = is just a facade that he himself increasingly whiteknuckles to believe in, is beyond awful. Especially when one has children and one of them is chronically ill and getting worse. A truly great situation for one's spouse to start to drink, right? /s The good news is that the kids and I got out. Eight years and change later than I would have preferred, but out nevertheless.

[@evelynkrull5268]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 yeah I never thought I'd be thankful for my 3 miscarriages. Would I have loved to have my babies? Yes. But would it have been a million times harder? Also yes. Since I didn't have a choice in losing them I can just be grateful at how much easier the divirce was and even then it took 8 months

[@kayyangchung6791]

It will never stop being baffling that there are people out there who think that marriage should never be broken.

[@emmajones8590]

Catholics. And a lot of Evangelicals.

[@chelseataylor5244]

My partner and I have been together for 13 yrs with 2 children now (hoping for a 3rd) we have talked about marriage but it has just never been all that vital to us. This makes that decision seem very sound, this is terrifying! Thank you for speaking up on this subject! You really are such an amazing, grounded person, you do a lot of good in the world Jo!

[@alexislennon4973]

4:42 Yes and no on the children part For the most part divorce is extremely hard on kids (I would know I am apart of that unlucky 50% of children that has divorced parents) It's so difficult watching two people you thought loved each other for years and to see it (and hear it) slowly crumble and fall apart is DEVASTATING So when it finally happens and you see one parent move out and start switching back and forth you realize it was for the best I noticed that my parents were way less stressed and the NIGHTS (Divorce children can probably relate) That peace you finally feel when you lay in bed and it's quiet in the living room No shouting No fighting Nothing just the ticking of a clock It's oddly calming So although divorce is tough sometimes it is better for everyone involved 😅

[@tink5337]

It's also important to state that emotional abuse is nearly impossible to prove in the court of law. And it is still abuse.

[@carita4494]

I got out of an abusive marriage less then a month after tying the knot. As a Christian it was a really confusing time but I'm thankful for no fault divorce.

[@truckywuckyuwu]

How much money did you get out of it?

[@carita4494]

@@truckywuckyuwu None?

[@jeroenimus7528]

As for comments on whether or not to get political. Everything is political and only those who are in the privileged position that the majority apparently thinks like them and/or legislates in their favour have the happy opportunity "not to get political". If you belong to a minority chances are the only way to survive (happily) is to get political.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Hear, hear!

[@grmpEqweer]

Exactly.

[@lynnes11]

When my grandparents got divorced in the early 1960's, my grandmother had to go to court to testify and make her case as to why she shouldn't have to stay married to my grandfather anymore.

[@johnsonjj117]

and what was her reasoning?

[@okyouknowwhatever]

@@johnsonjj117 Big chance she probably just grew bored of him. 🤷‍♂ Women are kinda neurotic at heart and impossible to please. Btw, did you know the couple dynamic with the highest domestic violence percentage ratio is lesbian couples? Then comes straight couples (man/woman), and the couple dynamic with least domestic violence is male gay couples. So the more women in a relationship, the more domestic troubles, the more men in a relationship, the less domestic troubles. Amber Heard is a lesbian, need I say more lol.

[@janisvaro4949]

The sad part too, is before no-fault, there were plenty of couples where nothing really went wrong. They were just done being married to each other. Then one of them had to be the "bad guy". Divorce is hard enough, but when you both agree to end it, it seems really crazy to put barriers in place that make the divorce process easier (like not having to make one of you the bad person and making up reasons why you need the divorce). Honestly? We really need to have a more realistic idea of marriage, and exactly what you said--what does it take to maintain a long-term healthy relationship?

[@insertcheesypunhere]

adult child of divorce: a lot of people throw around divorce being traumatizing to kids as a reason to limit/ban it. yes, divorces are often traumatic. but what would've been a million times worse is if my parents couldn't do that. there was no abuse, no infidelity in my parents' relationship (as far as i know) but my parents were deeply unhappy by the time i came around. i have no memories of my parents being loving or affectionate towards each other. they were very different people who should not have stayed together for my sake. they divorced when i was six or so, and the change was difficult, especially since it came with us moving to across the country and my dad later remarrying. but staying in a house with two people who shouldn't be in a relationship would've been infinitely more damaging. banning no fault divorces, like what my parents got, will fuck up kids more than they will protect them. this is just another case of conservatives saying "think of the children!" without actually thinking of the children.

[@iluvcoffe252]

Also a child of divorce, fully agree with everything you say.

[@Rikrobat]

My parents divorced when I was five, and even though I do have some sad memories because bouncing between households is hard, this was the best choice for everyone involved. I know have two stepparents, half-siblings, and an incredible extended family. Forcing my biological parents to stay married would not have been for the betterment of the children involved.

[@socpancake]

Jo, thank you for speaking up on this issue, despite your trepidation about voicing your opinions about this (and isn’t that another thing to be sad and frustrated about?). The world is in a dark phase right now, and as a woman in eastern europe, and a human being on planet earth, my heart goes out to you and all other US citizens who are not loud WASP republican males. We need to stay strong and keep our hard-won rights alive and well. Sending lots of love.

[@t.oneill8348]

M gonna be blunt, and. Apologize if this offends anyone, but I can imagine that if they do take away no fault divorce then they will lower the divorce rate while increasing suicide and murder rates. And less people will be inclined to get married in the first place. Also, why is there a need to lower divorce rates? Who are we trying to impress with this statistic? I have been in a relationship for 15 years, we choose not to marry as we are perfectly content where we are… you don’t need to be married to be happy, but you do need legal papers in case of emergencies occurring. This all seems like a plot to rope young naive people into getting married for control and abuse purposes.

[@samanthalaine8064]

I love divorce!!! I am so pro-divorce that I am definitely not the target audience of this video. I can appreciate that this was not a video you wanted to make (and I hope it doesn't subject you to more insensitive comments about your own situation) but it was really well made and articulate and so so important. Thank you for sharing this

[@TheKCaryer]

I assume you are in the lucrative divorce industry. Maybe a lawyer, social worker, friend of the court, a psychiatrist?

[@jayc342009]

Do not ever have kids or get married please.

[@RonBeaulieu]

Yup another women that wants to reap the benefits of a wedding but put in zero effort in being a good wife. Goodluck being single and alone… will fit you well.

[@sahawk0709]

What on earth are people thinking! Marriages don't always work, period. I agree with counseling IF both parties want to try but if not... people need to be able to leave and the Government has NO RIGHT to tell us no.

[@polinanikulina]

Don't just "stay together for the kids", ever. Babies can tell who loves them and children understand the dynamics between adults, even if they couldn't put their intuitions into words. Would someone who loved their child really inflict misery on everyone involved, and expect the child to be grateful for their suffering?

[@jayare6804]

Thank you for using your platform to bring attention to this issue, which is sadly just another installment in the ever worsening trend against women's rights and autonomy.

[@kokopuppy57342]

Love the video, personally I would have added one more thing. The introduction of no fault divorce correlated to a DRAMATIC decrease in the number of spousal murders. When people have no legal way to escape it doesn’t lead to people just “learning to get along” people resort to violence instead. Many of these men deciding these laws only seem to care about the things that directly affect them so “you are personally less likely to be murdered” feels like it might be a good incentive

[@calamityjean1525]

I was going to comment this, but you said it better. Thank you.

[@abigailscott3427]

Or even if it doesn't lead to murder, in a patriarchal society, it often leads to women putting up with misogynistic bullshit, which men will then point to and call "making it work." The huge gendered gap in domestic labor. The gender pay gap which (for white women, at least - haven't looked as deep into the causes for women of color) is almost exclusively caused by motherhood (Read: caused by the domestic labor discrepancy). Rape culture (marital rape is an explicitly higher legal bar with lower penalties, nevermind the prejudice and assumptions about it, in many states). Etc. If you can't leave, then none of your boundaries regarding your husband's misogyny (or even to non-gendered bullshit) have any enforcement, so you very well might just settle, which is exactly what these men want, even if they wouldn't frame it that way. Let's not pretend this is an accident.

[@jayc342009]

"Many of these men deciding these laws only seem to care about the things that directly affect them so" - just like the mothers that LOVE alimony and child support because they benefit women at the expense of men. Don't act like women aren't selfish either.

[@jayc342009]

@@abigailscott3427 We don't live in a patriarchy and rape culture is a feminist lie.

[@abigailscott3427]

@@jayc342009 Lol no. Dads benefit in their careers from their wives' free labor at home, whether their wives stay home completely or just take fewer hours at their jobs. Alimony pays wives for that free labor. Child support benefits *children,* who are entitled to be supported by *both* of their parents. Neither of those are women benefitting at the undue expense of men; it's just dads being responsible for their children, and women getting paid for their labor. Try again.