The Thief and the Cobbler (Miramax Cut) (Musical Hell Review #93)

[@noahmishael6541]

the thief literally stealing the film at the end feels like an all too perfect summary of the movies development history.

[@kieranstark7213]

That’s what I said after the first time I watched this when it was the start of the new millennium.

[@erainmartinez8175]

The best part of this is the background looks so beautiful 7:30

[@d4peters86]

In the recobbled cut, One Eye was actually squashed by those women he used for his throne. That is just so darkly hilarious

[@elephantmarch]

AH... I see you beat me to pointing that out. But yes, I thought that made it work. AND... lets face it... a warlord like that WOULD totally treat women that way.. and really he is the VILLIAN. i think ti's actually a clever AND appropriate story device to have the villian quiet literally objectifying a Harem in a way that's not LITERALLY sex. And again.. because of the poetic justice I think it works.

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

"THROOOOONE!" In the original, Nod also knew Yum Yum was the best person to go to the witch and asks her first. She didn't need to announce herself as being the smartest person in the kingdom because her father ALREADY KNEW and entrusted her to the task.

[@oneinathousand2156]

I saw the original workprint not long before Williams died. It was amazing seeing this movie with a full audience. I tell ya, people were uproariously laughing at the Thief character, even during the less completed parts, and they APPLAUDED at the end when he stole the film reels. I don’t think most of these people were animation fans or anything, I think the majority of them were like “oh look there’s a cartoon playing at the theater, let’s see it.” That’s the vibe I got anyway. I think Williams would’ve been touched if he were able to see people’s’ response to it.

[@Joshua_Quinzel_Isley]

I did see the original workprint of the film on my "Persistence of Vision" DVD once and I gotta admit it's actually really good. Though by comparing it with "The Recobbled Cut" on KZbin,I think I like the latter a little more. It's slightly longer,it's presented in HD,there's a ton of added extra music and sound effects,and most of the animation is in a complete and cleaned-up state.

[@oneinathousand2156]

Joshua Sage Yeah, I remember being surprised that the workprint was even less complete. I would only recommend it to people over Recobbled if they really, really, want to see something totally from Williams.

[@seanstark4312]

I wish i was there

[@chunellemariavictoriaespan8752]

Where'd you watch it?

[@oneinathousand2156]

@@chunellemariavictoriaespan8752 Sorry for the late response but this was at a theater in Nashville Tennessee called the Belcourt. They tend to play indie movies and older, more obscure movies.

[@catendway4754]

Fun fact: When Miramax bought the rights to Princess Mononoke, Harvey Weinstein wanted to make the movie more marketable by getting rid of the violence and gore, saying that he was editing the movie “in favor of the movie” Miyazaki was having none of that, and literally sent Weinstein a samurai sword that said *no cuts* in Japanese It seemed to have worked, because Weinstein got angry and complied with Miyazaki

[@MusicalHell]

The fact that we never got the Weinstein cut of Princess Mononoke is proof that maybe we don't live in the absolute worst timeline.

[@catendway4754]

Musical Hell I do find it ironic that Miramax, a company once helmed for making artsy Oscar bait movies, was run by a guy who stifled the creativity of movies (and did among other awful things)

[@98953812]

This is the best thing I've ever read this week. XD

[@ccateni28]

I would be curious how that would have ended up... Maybe a digimon the movie but worse?

[@collaterale1]

Blame Manson International and Showmen, Inc. for butchering Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind when it was released as Warriors of the Wind in the 80's.

[@dogfishrulez]

The man who was Tack's singing voice was actually my high school choir director! I didn't know about this movie at the time and he never mentioned being in it so I don't know what what he thought of the film. Anyways, unfortunate he had to sing these mediocre at best songs but he was a very talented and amazing teacher!

[@tobbs5410]

Holy shit Steve Lively taught you??? His voice is actually really nice but the lyrics are kinda shit

[@SomeHarbourBastard]

Apparently he was the voice of Tack too, in the Allied Filmmakers version.

[@tobbs5410]

@@SomeHarbourBastard It's a shame, because he actually does have a lovely voice for Tack.

[@tultsi93]

You know a celebrity? Now I'm jealous.

[@tobbs5410]

@@tultsi93 I'd hesitate to call him a celebrity, given his obscurity.

[@gleefulpebble]

The original cut is actually really good, worth checking out

[@cagefreeowl843]

I watched it almost 5 time for how amazing it is

[@Honey-tb7is]

It's visually gorgeous and doesn't have the characters not shutting up

[@TommyDeonauthsArchives]

I sure will!

[@thomashuffman3237]

Camper Todd Glitch I watched it and it was pretty good. And, NO JONATHAN WINTERS, HALLELUJAH!!!

[@Dill_Pickle1997]

Is it even still available?

[@benburke3015]

The thief’s voice over sounds surprisingly dull and tired, like Jonathan Winters was recording his lines in his living room at 3am and didn’t want to disturb the neighbours.

[@MeganKoumori]

If you're going to cast a voice for the Thief, why Jonathan Winters? Does that character design scream "Jonathan Winters" to you? To me, it suggests more of a cartoonish, Eddie Deezen voice, but then again, I don't want an hour and an half of that either. A little Deezen goes a long way.

[@Cinsavant]

@@MeganKoumori honestly I heard scrat from the ice age movies....I don't know how that translates into speech though

[@MeganKoumori]

@@Cinsavant I think Twitchy from "Hoodwinked" would probably be close.

[@Cinsavant]

@@MeganKoumori as long as it's the first and not the second

[@timothymclean]

If seems like they were going for an exasperated tone? It doesn't really fit the thief's zany schemes, and the voice work doesn't really use it, but...it's a thing.

[@pacoromes]

This episode had everything! Gorgeous animation, stupid songs, Mystery Science Theater 3000, Michael Jackson's Thriller, Mata Hari, and punishing Harvey Weinstein! I wish I could like this over and over again!

[@colleen4ever]

Diva did it again!! One of the best ways to welcome a new month!

[@wesleyhunt7599]

Harvey's already condemned elsewhere. Lust is the Second Circle.

[@bromodragone8405]

We don't want him. Give him to Valentino.

[@PeachBoba1523]

@@bromodragone8405 Which Valentino are you referring to?

[@bromodragone8405]

@@PeachBoba1523 Hazbin Hotel

[@PeachBoba1523]

@@bromodragone8405 I thought so but I wanted to be sure. And that punishment is perfect 😈

[@NA-AN]

@@bromodragone8405I would prefer giving him over to AM, assuming robots are in hell.

[@chrissyr8387]

I think an addition to dear old Harvey's punishment should be to be trapped in a room where every single ego crushing insult,critique, and action that smeared his reputation, will mentally and physically eats him alive for eternity 😈

[@colleen4ever]

OOOOH YES YES YES YES YES!!

[@Justice237]

Well he's already been infected with the coronavirus ... or rather, the coronavirus has been infected with Harvey Weinstein.

[@ForrestFox626]

That feels too good for him.

[@chrissyr8387]

@@ForrestFox626 It's a start😊

[@randomboy3m98]

whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

[@JinlongTheGoldenDragon]

I'm so incredibly annoyed at how this movie was fucked over. I'm an animator and I study a lot from the animator's survival kit, richard williams's book. He has incredible talent but unfortunately the gorgeous film he had in his head, through the few glimpses of it we got to see in the recobbled thief, was just too ambitious to make unless they were literally funded by disney. It's jarring and obvious which gorgeous animation was produced by Williams, and which ones were hastly made by miramax to finish the film, giving it an extremely mediocre look.

[@lauramaue]

Just fyi for anyone interested: Persistence of Vision is a great (and frequently enraging) documentary about what went down here. Williams for sure got screwed, but screwed himself as well. His standards were *insane,* yet I still respect his dedication, and hope to achieve the same levels of draftsmanship and ambition in my own work. Or...similar, anyway. Rest easy, you mad genius.

[@Joshua_Quinzel_Isley]

I have the Special Edition 2-Disc set of Persistence of Vision and it's wonderful.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

No he didn't! STOP saying that!

[@leonardogomez8812]

Steamboat Willie. Wut?

[@leonardogomez8812]

Laura Maue Enraging or engaging?

[@timothymclean]

You can tell Williams worked as an animation director before this by its strengths, and that he never worked as a producer by the nightmare stories in its production. (And the story construction makes it clear that he sadly never worked as a writer, either.)

[@CharlesXavier]

King Nod: MY BALLS ARE GONE! My kingdom will come to destruction and death!

[@jacobbelow4136]

2:35 Yup kids! That is the SHORT version of the story! For the LONG version, check of AniMat's 'History of the Thief and the Cobbler' (comoplete with the parody song "That's What Happens When You Miss Your Deadline")!

[@BugsyFoga]

R.i.P Richard Williams , it's a shame what Miramax did to his long time passion project .

[@thema1998]

Richard Williams didn't deserve to have his passion project screwed over by Miramax! 😠

[@gregzotter6189]

...he kinda screwed himself over by having no clear end goal for the film and taking too long to make it a reality. But yeah, Miramax DID make the film an utter mess.

[@Cheezbuckets]

Watching this again, and it just hit me how I’d always been a little confused why Yum Yum seemed so excited by Tack saying “I love you” at the end, but it makes much more sense that being told that by him would be so exciting for her if he had been mute the rest of the movie. I don’t know, of course, but I’m assuming that was going to be the single line Tack was going to speak in the original cut. At any rate, knowing this makes their final romantic scene more satisfying and less confusing for me lol

[@MrBlueSkyof1607]

Indeed, that is the case. (The one line was supposed to be said by Sean Connery, but a friend of his wife's did it instead when he couldn't show up).

[@hipstereagle6050]

I literally just did a whole research project on this movie and wrote an article about it, great timing!

[@LevePalestinaKrossaSionismen]

I would love to read it, if you don't mind providing a link or something! Hope you're staying safe! 🙏🏼💖

[@ryanc5572]

Care to share?

[@Igorcastrochucre]

I recommend Animat's 5-part series on the whole inception of the project coupled with a retrospective on Richard Williams.

[@tokubrony9447]

Can you do a Musical Hell for Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure? It's another film animated by Richard Williams and is so weird, it makes Yellow Submarine look sober.

[@mst3khaleesi943]

And the Greedy is pure nightmare fuel!

[@jenniferschillig3768]

THIS. PLEASE.

[@thegayghost872]

Give it a Saving Grace for No Girl’s Toy

[@auldthymer]

The Camel with Wrinkled Knees made me cry as a 10-year old: I wanted him to finallly go home. I didn't understand LSD, but I *did* understand psychedelic images; BOY! does this film deliver a trip.

[@colleen4ever]

I'm surprised she hasn;t done it yet.

[@TheBronyBraeburn]

The Thief's voiceover seems like Jonathan Winters was told to riff over the completed movie.

[@ZeldaEd123]

That would actually make a lot of sense.

[@ForrestFox626]

He wasn't?

[@tylerfish2701]

At least he sounded like he was trying for what he was given.

[@Remythechef]

Both this and Aladdin are not the same thing, it’s like the Book of Life and Coco claims, they might look similar but are entirely different things.

[@cartooncritique6625]

Honestly, Disney's "Aladdin" is more of a conceptual ripoff of 1940s "The Thief of Baghdad".

[@SiRenfield]

Not to mention the risk of coming across as slightly racist for seeming to imply that cultural depictions can only be used by one film at a time

[@timothymclean]

The most similar elements (leaving out common orientalist tropes) are the character designs of the Genie and Zigzag. And there are definitely some similarities, if I had to guess I'd guess that some of Richard Williams's ex-employees rehired by Disney drew on their T&C work as inspiration. However, it would be silly to call the Genie a ripoff of Zigzag. They're both blue characters with fluidly inhuman animation befitting their supernatural natures, as well as similar facial structures, but there are plenty of differences and their roles are nothing alike. There are enough similarities between the way they assemble their orientalist tropes that, again, if forced I'd rather say the former Richard Williams employees were partly inspired by their Thief and the Cobbler work. Remove almost everything that happens outside the city, add a genie, merge the two titular characters into one, and you've got a similar skeleton. I'd be surprised if _none_ of Richard Williams's former employees took _any_ inspiration from their old Arabian-Nights-inspired project to their new one, but I wouldn't call that a ripoff.

[@elephantmarch]

One of the MANY other reasons why the recobbled edit is better? It shows one-eye's harem getting revenge on him by, taking advantage of his isolation, grabbing him 20 to 1, shouting "THRONE" and sitting on him

[@MrBlueSkyof1607]

When Harvey Weinstein DOES get into Hell, let's make that his ULTIMATE punishment.

[@elephantmarch]

@@MrBlueSkyof1607 Haha not to be THAT guy.. but one struggles not to add the joke "well, if I had to CHOSE a way to go" T__T...

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

​@@MrBlueSkyof1607Considering this is Harvey, that bastard would find it as heaven.

[@clarelabellerose]

That’s the original work print.

[@missdisnerd_0927]

I wrote an article on the career of Richard Williams for my school’s online publication, and may I say, Diva...you really hit the nail on the head here!

[@LePenguin]

You know what this movie and Doogal seem to tell me? Harvey Weinstein probably has a crippling fear of mute major characters in animation.

[@wstine79]

When your movie gets sent out as a cereal prize, that's not a good thing.

[@Heroshii15]

Was it really?

[@wstine79]

@@Heroshii15 yes. In Fruit Loops.

[@MrGabeanator]

is that really that bad

[@98953812]

@@wstine79 Damn, I think I remember that.

[@angrychipmunkonfire3]

How do you fit an entire VHS tape into a cereal box?

[@holyirishcoffee84]

I remembered seeing this movie when I was a kid. I can't help that my guilty favorite line came from here: "babies don't go clang..."

[@CartoonFan1994]

Animat made a great parody of The Brigands’ Song, poking fun at the movie’s troubled production, Richard Williams’ admittedly massive ego and corporate’s dense choices to make it a pseudo-Disney musical. His take was both entertaining and tells a cautionary tale on procrastination and over-ambition.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

the only "massive egos" were Calvert and Weinstein.

[@CartoonFan1994]

Steamboat Willie., perfectionism is technically a personal ego in of itself, but I do get where you may be coming from.

[@tobbs5410]

@@CartoonFan1994 being a perfectionist doesn't mean you're egotistical. I'm a perfectionist and I fucking hate myself.

[@JoshFreilich]

Just when I’ve just gone all the way through my Musical Hell binge! I’m so glad I’m all caught up.

[@thejman5683]

The idea of characters not speaking in the original getting unnecessary voice overs reminds me of something in the movie Doogle. in the original, Sprung, The Magic Roundabout, there's a moose that randomly shows up for one scene; In Doogle, they gave the Moose a voice for nothing but a couple of fart jokes Also as a reminder, Doogle was distributed by the weinstein company. Like this film

[@GatorRay]

"This isn't Ultimate Muscle"-The Media Hunter

[@eoghanfeighery7383]

Thank God I only saw the original UK version of The Magic Roundabout.

[@jasonblalock4429]

16:05 I've seen the "Recobbled Cut" and I have to agree with this assessment, especially during the final battle. The stuff with the thief bumbling around inside the war machine goes on and on and on and on. Every individual shot is amazing, but all put together, it quickly gets repetitive and tedious. The movie had pacing issues throughout and really could have done with some discrete edits here and there, but climax seriously hurts the overall flow. . (It's still absolutely worth seeking out the Recobbled Cut and giving it a watch, just to see the amazing animation on display. However, even if Williams had been able to complete it 100% exactly as he wanted, it probably would have been more of a cult classic than a masterpiece.)

[@MissCaraMint]

Jason Blalock I dissagree. I thought it worked really well with the music they chose.

[@KiwiEvilFruit]

I must admit now that I've also seen the Recobbled Cut that at times the pacing dragged so bad I did find myself getting bored. I know there's nothing wrong with stories being simple, but more stuff with the characters instead of just showing off the animation at times would have been much more appealing. It was beautiful. But the war machine being destroyed took over eleven minutes. It got to be a bit much.

[@Joshua_Quinzel_Isley]

I can't believe you're actually getting into this finally. I never thought it would happen but, I appreciate you destroying this horrible cut of an unfinished masterpiece that was supposed to be. One day I'd love to see this film entirely completed the way Richard Williams intended it to end up as. But thankfully we have both the OG Workprint and "The Recobbled Cut" to please us for now.

[@DrGregoryHouseIT]

You were way kinder with Weinstein that you should've. And I agree with others, I do hope the original print will become available eventually.

[@cagefreeowl843]

Technically it is, it’s called the Recobbled cut

[@Heroshii15]

Weinstein’s day will come, though it’ll probably be out of Diva’s jurisdiction.

[@colleen4ever]

@@Heroshii15 Her boss will handle him, when the time comes.

[@HEDGE1011]

Thank you so much for the Bobo clip at 2:54! I laughed out loud and had to watch it again several times. Golden balls!

[@MusicalHell]

I probably owe that one to Isle of Rangoon's hilarious Dover Boys riff.

[@owendy274]

Yum Yum song sounds like Everything and More from Twisted, a musical parody

[@auroraaldal2112]

She. Most certainly. Sounds like she wants to eat the moon, wear it as a jewel, keep it as a pet and make a pie out of it

[@bradyfiscus4723]

Ducky Blue and laugh at their faces while eating it

[@owendy274]

She wants to make her own choices

[@kieranstark7213]

Owen Purdy Yeah, but unlike Princess Jasmine in the animated Aladdin trilogy, she never even had as much of a capability in making her own decisions (with empowering the movie rather than dumbing it down thanks to Harvey Weinerstein!!!!!!!).

[@newbiegamelover4767]

7:20 "Man, who decorated this place?!" Okay, that was a pretty good line! XD

[@TheJadeAurora]

My husband and I actually cosplayed as Tack and Yum Yum last year ❤

[@MusicalHell]

Oooh, that sounds brilliant!

[@TheJadeAurora]

@@MusicalHell we were actually surprised that people knew who we were cosplaying as

[@tobbs5410]

@@MusicalHell But... I thought you hated these characters???

[@kieranstark7213]

I wanna cosplay as Princess Yum-Yum with my future wife! XD

[@thecinematicmind]

I hope someday the “A Moment in Time” workprint will be released by The Criterion Collection. This important motion picture was robbed and vandalised thanks to the Goblin Weinsteins.

[@garthst.claire3459]

Thanks for pointing out that Williams wasn't completely innocent in how the movie turned out. While his skill and passion are without a doubt what you said about his lack of a cohesive storyline for the movie and his overly strong perfectionism are also true and he in many ways sabotaged himself. That still doesn't make it right what Weinstein did to the movie then, but it can't be denied either.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

No it wasn't, the film was nearing completion when the idiots decuded to sack.

[@tobbs5410]

I don't know why people bitch about the 'storee' when there clearly is one. It's just a very simple story. Simple stories aren't bad. People are just conditioned to hate anything that's not Pixar level writing at this point. Also I will agree that not every decision he made was right, but what matters to me is that he was able to grow as an artist and learn from it

[@steamboatwill3.367]

@@tobbs5410 ) Yes, thank you,

[@MissCaraMint]

Chubby Cobbler I agree. I watched the recobbled cut, and I absolutely loved it. I think a more complex story isn’t needed because the svar of the show is the animation. Its kinda like saying Journey (the video game) needed more story, yet that video game won universal aclaim, and a multitude of awards. It’s just beautiful.

[@tobbs5410]

@@MissCaraMint There are a ton of animated films which have very simple, loose or non traditional stories that are still brilliant. This 'story is king' dogma very much started with Pixar, even though their stories all follow more or less the same formula and haven't made anything that good since Ratatouille.

[@wickedfeylady]

I saw the workprint of this and whatever story issues there may be in the film, I couldn't criticize the art itself. Even unfinished, it was a tremendous achievement in animation.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

It does have a very simple story, like a fairy tale, like 1001 Arabian Nights.

[@LevePalestinaKrossaSionismen]

This used to be one of my favorite movies growing up, possibly because I'm of Middle Eastern descent! 😅 Thank you so much for reviewing this! 💕

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"So, we're back with the thief, who" *SMASH CUT! Okay, that was perfect editing.

[@kieranstark7213]

Partially, it’s been a long time since AniMat has reviewed The Thief and the Cobbler by giving a rave review to The Recobbled Cut. But even though he already reviewed the movie, keep in mind, I did say “partially” since he might review the mid-1990s version which is Arabian Knight, the (un)finished version!

[@etherealsky7078]

It could’ve been so great if Richard Williams actually made a Nasrudin movie. The tales of Nasrudin are simple and striking, exposing the hypocrisy of men in a humorous way that still rings true to this day. If you’ve never read any of the stories I would urge you to do so, they’re a quick and pleasant read. If you add to this stellar animation, you’ve got a perfect family film: one that younger audiences can appreciate for the great morals, humour and pretty pictures, and one that older audiences can appreciate for the philosophy (if you dig deeper) and the animation prowess.

[@tobbs5410]

Unfortunate circumstances and heated arguments with the Shah family prevented that reality, but the book with Richards illustrations still exists. Plus, he apparently completed a whopping three hours of Nasrudin footage but only about ten minutes of it survives online.

[@etherealsky7078]

Chubby Cobbler Ooo didn’t know there was footage available, time to google that! 😉

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

Having recently watched both Recobbled and the Miramax version back to back, what I hated most was how the Miramax version brought Yum Yum DOWN. In the original, she didn't hate being a princess because she had no reason to do so. The only thing she hated was Zig Zag and his treatment of both her abd her father but she was smart enough to know how to get under his skin while retaining a lot of her royal charm. More than that, her father trusted her alone to go to the witch. In the storyboards, he actually cries at the fact he has to send his only child as he states had he had a son, he'd send him but he still knew she was capable enough to make the trek which was why the choice was hard. In the Miramax version, they had to create a situation where Yum Yum declared herself more capable than Nod's guards but again, looking at Williams' original script he already had Yum Yum as being capable without having her be a Jasmine clone, especially since Yum Yum predates Jasmine by nearly 30 years.

[@mst3khaleesi943]

Diva, at some point PLEASE look into Hercules and Xena - The Animated Movie: The Battle for Mount Olympus from 1998. I don't remember much except the Titans' "boom shaka laka laka" song, Gabrielle getting turned into a giant bird, very awkward musical numbers, and of course, the voice cast from both "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" and "Xena Warrior Princess."

[@LchanOtakudom]

As many flaws as this movie has, I cannot help but adore pieces of it that weren't even part of the original film: Jonathan Winters' improv, "We're what happen when you don't finish school" are my favorites and have been since I was a kid. Vincent Price is perfection, plain and simple, and The Recobbled Cut is how this movie should be watched!

[@andrewollmann304]

I just noticed that the One-Eyes’ have no tongues.....probably a good decision when the characters have all those teeth.

[@Cinsavant]

"Turned on by the animals"....I heard that the complete wrong way initially

[@Cinsavant]

@Katy TerBerg with just a few different sounds that animal mass attack could have gone a completely different direction

[@toyland_f]

Katy TerBerg Not to mention the villains being called "One Eyes"

[@CJCroen1393]

Not gonna lie, Tack is frickin' adorable and I love him.

[@andyleclerc3600]

I now know why Richard had time for RAGGEDY ANN AND ANDY: A MUSICAL ADVENTURE (as a Joe Raposo fan, I plead clemency here. Joe believed in the potential of this property almost up to his untimely death in 1989 from lymphoma). Now DAVID COPPERFIELD, on the other hand...What took so long?😂

[@colleen4ever]

So this is an animated version of it? In addition to a musical? Oh boy, I can't wait!!

[@Owlzindabarn]

@@colleen4ever Why wait? kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5DYf593fahlga8

[@snarkus63]

In a way,I'm actually glad this version exists....it shows what *NOT* the hell to do with it....and hopefully,some day it'll be finished in a manner befitting its original vision.

[@Elementa2006]

I've seen the recobbled version recently and it's a shame it was never completed as originally intended because it would possibly have been my favorite work of animation I've ever seen.

[@MrWill9002]

So pretty much, Aladdin ripped off The Thief and the Cobbler, and in return, the Miramax version ripped off Aladdin. ... Basically it's the result of ANIMATED INBREEDING!!!!

[@redactedduetosafetyreasons]

THIS IS STARTING TO MAKE SENSE

[@zackrules4797]

The Animated King and I was also a Aladdin rip-off. But at least that film was only a couple years in production, while The Thief and the Cobber was in production for three decades.

[@SylentVoidkeeper]

Yeah, Watch the Recobbled Cut if you actually want to see this film It’s still on KZbin

[@ChristieBrewster]

I think that's an older version? Version 4 (the newest) is on [Edit: Daily Motion] though. And here it is: www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x4bppe

[@josephrowe849]

I like Animat's version of that song where it goes "We're what happens when you don't reach the deadline".

[@MelonTartVA]

I can actually explain the voice double problem. In the original release of the film (done by Fred Calvert under the title "The Princess and the Cobbler"), before Miramax got ahold of it, those "voice doubles" were the voice actors for the characters. But then Miramax decided to cut the dialogue that had been done by them (except the songs) and cast more well-known actors. The only exceptions being Clive Revill (King Nod) and Vincent Price

[@Magearod]

Why does Mathew Broderick keep getting replaced for songs, like this and the Lion King? His singing voice is just fine!

[@TheRoomforImprovement]

I’m not sure if this is in the Miramax cut, but in the recobbled cut, King One Eye gets crushed by the women making up his makeshift throne in an act on karmic justice.

[@MissCaraMint]

I always did think that was poetic.

[@thomashuffman3237]

Also different was King Nod's reaction to Zigzag's proposal. In this, he just laughs it off, in the recobbled cut, he's flat out pissed that he'd ask.

[@brigidmadden5577]

11:26 that and honestly they’re basic fairy tale tropes given an Arabian aesthetic to make it seem more interesting.

[@BloodylocksBathory]

ElectricDragon505's review does a parody of that brigand song that actually slaps. "This is What Happens When You Miss a Deadline."

[@jackfruth3738]

This movie was MY JAM growing up! It took a LOT of work and research to figure out why everyone hated it, then I understood...

[@ferenczliszt]

I have a lot of nostalgia for the Miramax cut, but I absolutely obsess over the Recobbled cut.

[@bjornjonsson6583]

One jump ahead of the plotline🎶🎵☺😊 Speaking of which, the villain looks like a crossover between Genie and Jafar.

[@trinaq]

Happy June, everyone! 🎉Thank God that I never watched this movie as a child, as it might have given me nightmares for days on end! 😂

[@Cheezbuckets]

I got this movie from a cereal box when I was younger and enjoyed watching it, but I always felt that something was “off” about it in some way my child brain couldn’t decipher, so learning about its troubled production when I was older was both fascinating and heartbreaking. My dad also enjoyed watching it with me, but mostly for the comedy of the thief’s shenanigans, if that tells you anything about the taste in media I grew up with lol

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

I still have a soft spot for the brigands' song. Yes, all of the other songs suck--but this one kinda sucks in a fun way.

[@cartooncritique6625]

11:11 Actually, Disney's "Aladdin" is much more a rip-off of 1940's "The Thief of Baghdad". Seriously, the two movies are shockingly similar. The villain is even called "Jafar" in both of them. I'm not kidding! 18:07 William's work was a heavy inspiration for an Irish-American animated film called "The Secret of Kells". If you love the art on display in "The Thief and the Cobbler" then you'll definitely enjoy the feast for the eyes that is "The Secret of Kells".

[@Amanecer458]

People use the world rip off to freely

[@blackkitty369]

Loved the shout out to Gromit.

[@kieranstark7213]

Gromit is over ten times the characters The Weinstein Company characters will always be!!!!!

[@Remythechef]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again... you are so much better than the nostalgic critic

[@demh7823]

Between this and "A Christmas Story Live", Matthew Broderick should steer clear of narration.

[@magik4353]

he also should have steered clear of those two women he killed

[@AbareKillerFan-yo7pe]

♪ My heart will love a lovey love love, but only in my dreams / But because I sing with singiness, the dreams I dream I’ll dream / I heart love ♪ Nostalgia Critic, “I Heart Love,” Lazy as Hell Records Dir: Tommy Wiseau.

[@DrGregoryHouseIT]

It reminds me of Pearl Forrester's Greatest Hit, 'When Lovers Love'.

[@tultsi93]

I did not direct this. It's not true, it's bullshit. I did not direct this. I did not. Oh hi, Mark.

[@AlanPalgut]

And here is yet another reason why I'm glad to have watched The Nostalgia Critic. He remembers it so we don't have to. "Now that _I_ have the balls…"

[@TommyDeonauthsArchives]

I'll take Quest for Camelot over this botched edit of a movie...

[@horaciosi]

At least Quest for Camelot had The Prayer and I Stand Alone.

[@rachel_sj]

KZbin has a few Recobbled Cuts that had edited The Thief and the Cobbler close to its original vision. I’d highly recommend watching those instead

[@kieranstark7213]

*Quest for Camelot scores* Animation: ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (The hand-drawn Animation in Quest for Camelot is fluent and the backgrounds are nothing short of badass, but the problem with the animation is that it tries too hard to make the movie feel like a Disney Animation rather than give it more creativity to make it feel more unique both conceptually and in execution! Speaking of which...) Story: ⭐️⭐️⭐️ (I can acknowledge why some people may actually like this movie, even if they admit they thought it was bad at the same time. It had a lot of potential of being one of the greatest films that are like more so than actually Disney Renaissance films up to the ranks of the other 1998 animation, The Prince of Egypt, but because of the fact that it tried way too hard to be a Renaissance film more than its own thing, it really started to feel much more dumbed down than it should’ve been) Characters: ⭐️⭐️ Songs: ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (The majority of its songs are catchy, like “I Stand Alone”, “If I Didn’t Have You” and “United We Stand”, but then there’s “Ruber”, with Gary Oldman singing like someone having a wack fit! That and the soundtrack itself could’ve been better if they didn’t try too hard to feel like Renaissance films). Overall: ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️/⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (A mixed bag, but more on the disappointing side than the satisfactory side. If you like Quest for Camelot, then you may have your reasons! But even with the good things the movie had to offer, I just wish it felt more like an epic fantasy than a stereotypical kids’ film not of the 2010s, but of the 1990s) *The Thief and the Cobbler (Mirimax version) scores* Animation: ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (The animation is actually really fluid and has a badass colour palette, but maybe it’s WAY TOO GOOD for a film as “Weinsteinized” as this) Story: ⭐️ (If Hayao Miyazaki could stand up to Harvey Weinstein, the. it really makes you wonder, how come Richard Williams couldn’t?! *listens to verdict of video* Oh...) Characters: ⭐️ (Okay, maybe the cast isn’t as mean-spirited as Disney’s Chicken Little characters, but still, when one of its characters is LITERALLY named “Yum-Yum”, then you know you’ll be in for a LOT of trouble!!!!!) Soundtrack: ⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️/⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (To recommend us all to stick with Disney Animation’s Aladdin, Persistence of Vision and The Recobbled Cut would be a COMPLETE understatement!!!)

[@zackrules4797]

​@@kieranstark7213 I actually really like QFC, I will admit, it could have been better if it didn't copy Disney. But I think the music score is pretty good, sure it's not good as the scores from the Disney movies around that time period, but it is a good soundtrack though, I actually think the characters are likeable, sure they far from amazing, but they don't come a cross as hateable and the animation for the most part is nice.

[@thethiefhistorian3873]

The reason the voice doubles are so bad is because they were the Princess And The Cobbler (the Calvert version that this is based on) actors, so their singing is the original voices for Tack and Yum Yum, not Matthew Broderick and Jennifer Beals.

[@chameleoncove]

What better way to start June than with a review from Musical Hell?

[@colleen4ever]

What better way to start ANY month!

[@etherealsky7078]

Honestly I really love your take on all of this Thief and The Cobbler story. It’s actually nuanced. Too often people go the “Richard Williams is a poor genius who did nothing wrong” route. But as you said, it’s probably more complicated than that. Now, as I said in your Yellow Submarine review, I’m of the unpopular opinion that I don’t need _all_ of my movies to have coherent, air-tight plots to be good. I’m okay with a movie “just” being a technical showcase. But if I’d rather watch The Thief and The Cobbler on mute, then that’s a problem. I’m also very glad you brought up Williams’s poor work ethics. Too often, artists (especially male ones, what a surprise) are given a pass for being shitty people because they’re gEnIUsEs. It pains me to say this as an animation student, for whom The Animator’s Survival Kit is a seminal book, but Williams wasn’t a perfect human being. It’s nice that more and more creators are being called out for treating their colleagues/employees like shit (looking at you Stanley Kubrick) while not denigrating their art in itself. We, as artists/content creators, must strive for an environment where artistic proficiency and human empathy aren’t treated as mutually exclusive.

[@tobbs5410]

I don't think anyone other than maybe Garrett Gilchrist thinks that Richard Williams was a perfect person who did nothing wrong. I'm not going to act as if he didn't make mistakes and could have made better choices in hindsight. But I think for all of his flaws he was still a unique and talented individual with a passion for a craft that you don't see every day. I think his biggest mistake was signing on and trusting WB, because that's where everything took a nosedive. Lashing out at people who were only trying to help didn't get him anywhere, but I'd be a hypocrite if I claimed that I never lost my temper with others. You can acknowledge somebody's flaws and still care about them and their creations. Those flaws didn't make him a bad person, just an individual. The fact that he was able to let go of his bitterness, move on and accept the film for what it is and appreciate the response people had to it and go forward and create new and even better films is what's important.

[@etherealsky7078]

Chubby Cobbler This is what I was talking about when saying “calling out someone while not denigrating their art”. You can acknowledge someone treated their staff poorly while still thinking they are great artists who contributed a lot to their art. You’d be surprised how many people I know who think Richard Williams was overall great!

[@steamboatwill3.367]

@@tobbs5410 ) well said.

[@tobbs5410]

@@etherealsky7078 I think he's overall great too, but not a saint. There is a difference. You can be proud of somebody and love their creations but at the same time be mindful of their bad choices.

[@VincentMariethe4th]

I’m convinced that for the Thief in this cut they just threw Jonathan Winters into a booth & told him to ad-lib all of his inner-monologue as he watched the finished footage cuz “improv worked for Robin Williams as the Genie!” I only got one laugh out of him & that was a gag where the Thief runs into his angry mom while climbing the pipes. (It’s just so weird & random like something out of a Monty Python animated segment.)

[@98953812]

Diva, you beautiful hellspawn! I've been waiting for this one for years!!

[@crazycatlady2744]

Harvey Weinstein treats animated movies the same way he treats women.

[@miticaBEP07]

Just recently, Italian animation aficionado 151eg asked for and obtained the right to adapt the Thief and the Cobbler (Recobbled Cut Mark 4) in Italian. He rounded up a lot of local independent talent for voice acting and they have just finished dubbing it. It’ll be released in his channel on September the 5th, 2020 for free.

[@dunes8817]

Executive meddling strikes again!

[@MrWill9002]

I knew it was only a matter of time! Diva, I highly recommend the Recobbled Cut. It's much better

[@FillaneAmmisto]

It's really sad to see how much difference a cut can make especially in a negative way

[@rjd-kh8et]

Tack and YumYum's singing voices are actually their voice actors from the Fred Calvert cut. Miramax dubbed over their dialogue, but not the songs.

[@razznatazz]

Listen.. this was a movie that I loved as a child and still love to this day, but I completely understand where the criticisms come from. Still, I think it’s charming and unique (even when they try to add popular Disney-isms). The style is quirky and colorful, the animation is fantastic and I actually think the little points of humor (“it’s like les Mis”) make it a fun watch. Maybe my bias and nostalgia are clouding my judgement, but I can still enjoy this film despite its flaws. I’m glad you talked about it though and appreciate your perspective!

[@jenneacubero1036]

Confession Time: I like "She Is More Than This" and "Am I Feeling Love". Especially the soundtrack version of the ladder. I'm a sucker for power-ballads.

[@joyofcookies]

As a pastry chef who is addicted to sugar, and has a general dislike for mustard, I can think of no worse punishment.

[@Nosebluds]

I watched the Recobbled cut first recently (which i just realized is on youtube; go and watch it) And while the pacing is very messy and you still see where the animation gets rushed near the end, its still a great reflection of Williams' animation and its still really cute I could not get into even 10 minutes of the miramax cut

[@liamannegarner8083]

Regarding both 13:34 and 16:30 - This isn't very clear even in the recobbled cut, but the Throne of Slave Girls? In the original script and the workprint, as One-Eye's on a cliff watching the war machine collapse, they mutiny, surround him, and yell "THRONE" just as he did, and literally sit on him, crushing him to death. Not sure if that's more or less kinky, but very satisfying when actions like "building a throne of slave girls" have consequences. (Also, yes, they were very aware of how the double entendres sounded. "One-Eye is c-c-coming!" I'm not British enough to laugh at it.)

[@elchanchopato9601]

You're like a mix of Nostalgia Critic and Cinema Sins. I like that. Keep on the good job!

[@samflood5631]

Historical Fact, Bagdad was the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate that reigned from 750 all the way to 1258. For those of you who don't know what a Caliphate is, it's a kind of Arabic or Middle Eastern monarchy ruled by a Caliph. So Princess Yumyum's father should been named Caliph Nod instead of King Nod.

[@VulpesHilarianus]

I'd only ever seen the reconstructed cut, finished to William's specifications and using his original linework. I'm glad that was the first, and for the longest time, only version I had seen until now. Because this version makes me angry.

[@Idontwantomakeupahandle]

The singing doubles actually voiced the speaking roles in the version known as The Princess and the Cobbler which is slightly less awful.

[@FatMarioHeads]

What I found funny about the Miramax cut is the fact that most of the cast of the original version had died by the the time the film was released, including Vincent Price, yet Price was the only voice actor who wasn't replaced, despite the fact that Sean Connery, who spoke Tack's single line at the end, is still alive and was still working at the time. Granted Connery had aged significantly since the original version was made, but giving Tack and the Thief additional voices was a stupid decision either way. Thanks Harvey, you perverted turd peddler.

[@MovieFan1912]

That comment about Sean Connery being alive did not age well, in more ways than one.

[@MrWill9002]

11:38 Wait a minute! What happened to his skin?! They're sneaking out and Tack's skin is a different color! I'm putting so much focus on it because it's nighttime and they haven't gotten to the desert yet!

[@3GoldBalls]

The She is More sequence was animated by Don Bluth’s Team. Getting Korean War Flashbacks from A Troll in Central Park

[@davidhileman8567]

I actually would like to see what that sequence (and maybe the same cut of the movie it first appeared in) would look like if it was given the same treatment as "The Pebble and the Penguin", where it would be further hobbled by MGM buying the distribution rights and forcing changes upon it that would probably delay the movie even further (maybe with the film being completed two years later, in 1995), and maybe having the animation done extra-sloppily (most likely by the same Hungarian animation studio that some work on "Pebble" had to be outsourced to), where stuff happens like characters freeze up (seemingly turning into still JPEG's) for more than 5 seconds, characters would (maybe in fullscreen versions) not be fully drawn and painted on the frame and seemingly fade into nothingness on the bottom (or top), characters would jitter slightly even when they're supposed to be still, and the line quality and colors would end up looking more akin to a Saturday-morning cartoon, or something. For "Pebble", both Don Bluth and co-director Gary Goldman were so horrified by the final product, with MGM's changes causing the frequent drops in quality, that they up and abandoned ship to form the equally ill-fated Fox Animation Studios, taking their names in the film's credits with them, while the studio, which, after Bluth and Goldman's departure changed its name from Don Bluth Ireland LTD., to Screen Animation Ireland LTD., did some of the animation for MGM's "All Dogs Go to Heaven 2", before closing down in October 1995 (after which, the sequel's animation was outsourced to numerous overseas studios, including Danish A. Film Productions, several London-based studios, and Wang Film Productions in Taiwan (as well as its Thai subdivision)).

[@LittleJoeTheMoonlightCat]

Diva How did you know I'm Snickering at the Mention of the Golden Balls.

[@frisbyart]

I haven’t seen this movie in over a decade, and all I can say is that I absolutely LOVED the shenanigans of the thief (I’m a sucker for mindless slap stick), and those animated sequences done by Williams were breathtaking. I’ll have to watch it again to see how it really is to me now, but even I can recall that the musical numbers in this felt more weird to me than other musicals I watched. I was a KID who wondered this, and that says a lot. Also, just to add to the golden balls jokes, I will never see the Sultan’s panic attack the same again. “THE BALLS ARE GOOOOOONE!!!” Still, I can also say that as a kid, this movie was far more entertaining to me than, say, Quest for Camelot. At least this movie, as botched and bad as it feels now, could keep my attention, whereas Camelot felt more like an insult to its viewers.

[@MissCaraMint]

Then you would probably like the Recobblled Cut more. I reccomended watching it. It’s available for free.

[@dunes8817]

Well except for whenever Wile E Coyote interacted with Bugs Bunny.

[@mightyfilm]

Something that I admit was a mixed bag as it totally changes the character. In the ones where he's silent and chasing the Road Runner, he comes off as a pathetic soul who engages in a Captain Ahab-esque cycle of obsession. Even though the Road Runner does nothing wrong and can't contend the fact that he's ever in any danger, you still want Wile E. to finally catch and eat him because part of you feels sorry for him. Whereas the Bugs Bunny shorts paint him as an insufferable jerk that gets what's coming to him. My favorite time he actually spoke was when he was explaining to a couple kids watching him on television exactly why he wants to eat the Road Runner so badly. It comes out of left field and it keeps true to the spirit of those cartoons. Of course, the difference between those cartoons and this movie is that in Bugs vs. Wile E. was scripted and written with the intention of plot. In this movie's case it's because the producers think the audience is full of morons and they need running commentary that serves little to the plot. Also, I'm sure this is where "Thief and the Cobbler" steals from Disney's Aladdin. They were trying to ape Robin Williams's improv as the Genie with Johnathan Winters, who actually was a hero to Robin and worked with him before. Only Robin's schtick was animated into the movie and Winters's schtick was added in artificially.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

Ken Harris who was Chuck Jones lead animator animated most of the thief.

[@thomashuffman3237]

mightyfilm plus, most of the genie's pop culture references were just results of Robin Williams' ad libbing. With Jonathan Winters, it's just do or say whatever, and hope that people laugh.

[@GAshoneybear]

Wait a minute... Matthew Broderick is a singer. Why did they need a voice double at all?