The Thousand Sons DESERVED to be DESTROYED

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

My two cents is that Magnus' desire to be right and have his methods vindicated, while, at the same time, dismissing or outright ignoring almost literally everyone telling him that what he was doing was a bad idea, inevitably led to not only the damnation of him, his sons, and home planet but also the damnation of humanity. Making him, in my books, one of the three Primarchs most responsible for humanity's damnation and inevitable extinction, the other two being Lorgar and Horus and those two wouldn’t have been able to get as far as they did without Magnus and his actions. Did he deserve it per se? No, nobody deserves to be tools of Chaos. Was it an inevitable fate for him and his sons? All things considered, yes. Yes, it was because they kept doing what they were doing without stopping.

[@RedHierophant23]

Magnus did the most damage to the Emperor's plan. More than even Horus, I would say.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

@@RedHierophant23 If he had simply swallowed his pride and spoke to Russ he could have saved his people and his home.

[@Dokari-l9m]

@@RedHierophant23the emperor did his own damage, had he actually used his psychic powers to prevent the heresy he could have stopped it all. But the strongest psyker could be bothered

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

​@RedHierophant23 well certainly him doing what he was told would have meant Big E would have been able to deal with Horus himself instead of being busy trying to stop Terra from being invaded by an unending army of daemons and trying to preserve what was left of his plan for humanity to have FTL without the warp. Which, depending on things, could have meant that Horus wouldn't have even gotten off of Istvaan V. Best case scenario things would have ended with three empty plinths (Lorgar), worst case, ten empty plinths. It would have at least meant the Space Wolves were free to fight along with the ten thousand. The Thousand Sons would have also been free but, tbh, there is a non zero chance that would have ended in disaster for them given their tendency to summon and keep daemons as familiars.

[@Nemo-iy6hk]

Horus: "Hey Russ about Magnus.." Russ: "IM GONNA MURDER HIM!!" Horus: "Okey dokey"

[@overlycaffeinatedsquirrel779]

As was pointed out, as long as they got results The Emperor didn't care. People forget that The Great Crusade went on for over 200 years. That means The Thousand Sons had this as part of their legion and defining part of who they were for over 200 years. The Emperor reguraly went with Magnis into the warp, It was the Emperor's job to warn his sons not to talk to strangers, especially in the warp. So, of course the chaos god drove up to different primarchs in their van with free candy plastered on it, The Emperor never wondered if Magnus always had one eye, The other one is flashing more colors than the window outside a rave. Then the Emperor just ignored Magnus's warning. Let his legion he sacrificed that eye for be murdered because he preferred to micromanage his children.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

Personally, I think most of this could have been avoided if the Emperor had simply explained to Magnus, and really all of the Primarchs, _why_ the Warp was so dangerous. Also, given the pivotal role he was meant to play in its operation, Magnus should have been brought into the Webway Project from Day 1.

[@Otomazeman]

Feels like Leman Russ sponsored this Creator to make this Video whilst still traveling in the *WARP*

[@vontheunknown7982]

I'm hoping the Blood ravens are from thousand Sons, having modified geneseed, but what do you guys think?

[@RedHierophant23]

We're together on that, brother. Love the Ravens.

[@vontheunknown7982]

​@@RedHierophant23Me too 😁👍

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

Only explanation that doesn't involve Word Bearers (which would just be a copout at this point).

[@haraldbredsdorff2699]

That is my head canon, but I kind of hope we will never learn the truth, but get many good "dawn of war" games in the future. The mystery, is part of what makes it interesting.

[@Warmaster2001]

They are. But unlike their first founding brothers are more cautious. Especially after Aurelian Crusades and Kyrases death.

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

So I watched this to see what your argument for that statement was, and I'm going to be frank here: this was just a bad excuse for an argument. You didn't come up with an actual argument for why the Thousand Sons themselves supposedly deserved to be wiped out by a bunch of massive hypocrites, all you did was repeat the widespread 'Magnus was moronically arrogant' assessment while making an attempt to dumb down how complex the entire mess actually was. Yeah, Magnus was moronically arrogant to the point where the only Primarch who managed to outdo him in that regard was Fulgrim (LAER BLADE, HELLO!?), but that doesn't change the simple fact that you didn't go over any actual reasons WHY the Thousand Sons themselves sucked beyond their Primarch being Magnus.

[@RedHierophant23]

The Thousand Sons were practicing Sorcery before they even met Magnus though. This is really the backbone of my argument because (supposedly) other legions got decimated for less. This is also why during The Council of Nikaea there were talks about actually dissolving the Thousand Sons. That may sound extreme to most people, but you have to remember that before the Word Bearers collectively lost their minds, the Thousand Sons were really the only real risk regarding the Empyrean. You are free to have your own opinion on my videos and arguments though, I am far from perfect and I'm still learning how to properly write my thoughts and arguments. (there's a language barrier) I appreciate your feedback too, next video I'll try to make my points clearer.

[@TheCrimsonArchivist]

@@RedHierophant23 The biggest issue with that arguement is that no-one actually talked about the dangers of the Warp outside "superstitous" talk that the Thousand Sons and Magnus considered ignorant beliefs of uneducated fools, they believed the entities in the Warp were just a different form of live. The Emperor himself did nothing to educate the Primarchs and their legions of the dangers

[@Dokari-l9m]

@@RedHierophant23I don’t feel like the council of nikea is actually any good. Because it is basically telling your kid to not use drugs. After they have spent years taking it and are never told the dangers of it. How do you expect the thousand sons to just abandon it. Yes they are reckless but they had no reason to fear it. Centuries of psychic knowledge due to their planet made then experts, their primarch cured their flesh change( as far as they knew) and the great crusade proved that they were not only effective but legendary with it.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

@@TheCrimsonArchivist This right here.

[@SpartanAltair15]

@@TheCrimsonArchivistright. Like the emperor reiterated to Magnus a few times that the warp was dangerous and not to fuck around with it or make deals with it, but never gave any examples or got more specific, like explaining that he had ripped off the sapient and malevolent God entities that live in it and they’re out for revenge. Magnus’s only experience of the warp was consistently that of a wondrous ocean of energy with mostly mindless predators like any ecosystems, and some consistently ‘benevolent’ entities that helped him out of many situations at minimal cost to him. Tzeentch made sure that Magnus’s experience in the warp was overwhelmingly positive to discredit the emperor in Magnus’s eyes, and it worked.

[@spartastic4]

Fuck... Now I wanna see you do one about rhe Space Wol es since I'm a SW player myself

[@RedHierophant23]

I'm gonna finish the traitor legions first, then I'm moving to the loyalist. Space Wolves are going to be one of the first ones (probably).

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

They 10000% earned what they got. Magnus could read everyone's minds. He knew what he was doing. He even spied on me, while I BEGGED for him to surrender, on my ship. It was always voluntary.

[@SpartanAltair15]

Magnus wasn’t spying on them… If you think that was Magnus’s spy, you completely missed the entire plot line of Prospero Burns.

[@warrenweaver6664]

The more I see vids talking about how bad chaos and good the imperium are the more I’m just like I’d side with chaos with how much the Emperor is a bitch and him forcing people to join the imperium I’m like nah chaos doesn’t seem that bad least I’m free from the false god clutches.

[@Aberinkula9]

As far as I see, this video is not exactly pro-Imperium. The other videos of this channel are also not pro-Imperium, even discussimg some of the Emperor's faults in two videos. It is more, in general, a discussion of topics related to WH40K in which the author reflects make his own considerations. This video here is the first one I thought it was a bit of "click bait" for it does not goes at lenghts of why the Space Wolves were justified to destroy entirely the Thousand Sons but, in general, even this video have more of a respectable discussion. in it. I kind of know where you come from. I, too, despise The Imperium in its majority and it could be dissolved. It has no good justification to keep existing and, in the current events of the setting, it could in its majority be swallowed by Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids and whatsoever in its bureaucratic machinery with Guilliman salvaging only what is worth of it. But Chaos is no better: it has no aim, it has no goal, it is absolutely self-destructive. I enjoy to admire Black Legion, Noisa Marines, Red Corsairs and Night Lords by their death/black metal aesthetics but, frankly, I would not like to live in a universe ruled by then. Does that make me believe that The Imperium is a "necessary evil"? Not even a bit: The Imperium is more damaging towards itself than any invasion of Orkz and Drukhari or World Eaters or whatever. I follow the belief of Solomon Akurra of The Serpen Teeth (warband of The Alpha Legion): If Humanity cannot survive without the Imperium as it did millenia before, then it does not deserve to survive at all anymore. And it would be a merciful death than being enslaved beyond belief by Chaos. But hey, I just offering my perspective. You are free to go nuts enjoying and playing with Chaos, alright? I am not here to mandate with which force or how any Warhammer's player should play! Have fun! ✌

[@warrenweaver6664]

@@Aberinkula9 I agree with u but I was just saying

[@RedHierophant23]

The entire premise of the video is this: "The Thousand had it coming, since they were using sorcery before they even met with Magnus and after meeting Maggy they got a LOT worse." I can definitely see why you think it's "clickbaity" though, perhaps I should've went into greater depth about my perspective of it. I thought about doing it too, but didn't want to the video to get too "cumbersome" if you know what I mean. Btw I also have a lot of criticism for the Space Wolves, which I'll get into when I make a video on them. This isn't me playing favorites, I'm just trying to make a point.

[@Aberinkula9]

@@RedHierophant23 I agree that, due a series of indirect incidents, the Thousand Sons had it coming. Although I find it a little bit extreme to say that deserve to be exterminated, I do understand that they would suffer their hubris sooner or later. Perhaps, however, the problem of the video due its title is to say that they deserved to be slain by the Space Wolves of all people - the people that were always unreasonable and petty with them, that were tricked to turn Prospero to dust by Horus by the way and, most of all, were hypocrite as you stated a little in the first half of the video. And not only because their "not even a bit psykers" Runepriests but also for their mutated Wulfen. If, you know, the video was titled something like "The Thousand Sons deserved to be extinguished - but not by the Space Wolves" and then argued that, somehow, the "best" people to do it would have been the White Scars, for instance, for they helped the Thousand Sons but also warned them for their careless use of warp magic, the video would have been more coherent. But it is all good man! I have seen way worst takes than this one and way more unashamed "clickbaity" videos than this one. 👍

[@warrenweaver6664]

@@RedHierophant23 oh no dude I wasn’t meaning by it being clickbait or anything I was saying that the legions who fell off and went to chaos are more of the good guys than the empire as Lorgan said “Father Lied”

[@cesarerinaldi6750]

💙🔵 Imagine: powerful Chosen of Tzeentch always at war (with the Lord of Change Tchzen of the Silver Claw at their side)! Who with their mighty fire serve the God of Magic in the pure way, with victory in battle. So do his Sorcerers, who teach battle to the zealous Warriors of the Architect of Fate. With war they bring eternal change for Tzeentch! Tzeentch must look like Norsca, and there are several Champions who prove it: Tchar'zanek, Aekold Helbrass, Albodi, Melekh the Changer. "My name? Long ago such worthless details fell from memory. I know only the lust for glorious battle -- for blood, for victory! I seek only the Eye of Tzeentch -- his favour, his grace, his Dark Gifts -- that through them, I may be remade -- reborn! Why do we raid your lands? Why do we burn your homes? Why do we flay your flesh? To serve the Lord of Change and his magnificent designs." Do you know what the Screamers of Tzeentch must look like? Long tail but raven wings and beak, without claws however because being creatures of change they must always fly and never stop. And since purple, pink, and gold (Slaanesh) are aspects that simply don't go well with Tzeentch, then blue, azure, and silver are his only true aspects. 💙🔵 I like to imagine (even before the Heresy) Magnus and the Thousand Sons with the symbol of the Egyptian Raven (let's eliminate the symbol of the Egyptian Scarab, it is an insult to Tzeentch).

[@bbqbanditd6237]

The Thousand Sons got done dirty. Magnus did all of the wrong things for all of the right reasons. Even during some of his darkest moments he still cared deeply for his Legion and even for the civilians of Terror during the Great Siege. Fulgrim and Magnus where the saddest betrayals for me 😢

[@thepoliticalgunnut8018]

Brave words for someone in doom bolt range.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Simple fact of the matter is the Thousand Sons were screwed right from the get-go. The Flesh-Change was a Tzeentch-sent curse that no one was going to rid the Legion of, and between Magnus having the arrogance and hubris of the Emperor and the Emperor himself not telling the one primarch and legion who were the most psychically-gifted about the dangers of the Warp, there was really no other way for their story to end. Did the Thousand Sons deserve to be destroyed? Yes, but only due to them simply being beyond saving; and that was really no fault of their's. Don't get me wrong, Magnus made some serious mistakes and both he and his sons are guilty of some Emperor-levels of arrogance and hubris. If anything, I think the Emperor should have purged them back when it was clear that their gene-seed was tainted by the Flesh-Change, but he didn't... Just like how he didn't ask just how Magnus "cured" the defect, just like how he never told Magnus and his sons about just what's in the Warp, and just like how he blundered things with half of his sons. Did the Thousand Sons deserve to be destroyed? Yes, yes they did... Though for my part, I would argue that only because that legion was for all intent and purposes defective; everything else is just extra. The Thousand Sons were doomed from the start, and like with so many things, the Emperor made his failure the rest of the galaxy's problem.

[@SoulRuninFree]

Man I hate 30k space wolves.

[@rileymosman2808]

**Immaterium

[@lloydgush]

Magnus and the thousand suns were unironically evil. Literally. Imagine saying "the only evil is ignorance" and hoping to be seen as innocent?

[@SpartanAltair15]

They were innocent, as much as any legion ever was. The burning of Prospero probably the most successful plot that Tzeentch ever pulled off, turning two completely loyalist and largely innocent legions against each other and removing them both from the picture for the remainder of the heresy.

[@lloydgush]

@@SpartanAltair15 nah. Guilty and evil. Low key evil, but unironically so.

[@SpartanAltair15]

@@lloydgush They were innocent, as much as any legion ever was. The burning of Prospero probably the most successful plot that Tzeentch ever pulled off, turning two completely loyalist and largely innocent legions against each other and removing them both from the picture for the remainder of the heresy. Since we’re apparently just repeating ourselves and pretending it’s an actual argument. Only one of us has actually presented an argument, keep that in mind.

[@lloydgush]

@SpartanAltair15 sir, you addressed nothing of my argument. Imagine simping for the dudes who turned themselves into warp portals because they had no shill. To the point of ruining their whole geneseed. The burning of prosperos didn't go far enough. The emperor should have actually ordered it, and way before. The sons' mistakes cost all sensible psychers in the emperium.

[@denmarkball7728]

I love this channel so much

[@hoofie7371]

Thousand Sons did nothing wrong.

[@louisnall3102]

Magnus did almost everything wrong The Thousand Sons did nothing wrong.

[@SpartanAltair15]

@@louisnall3102 Magnus did everything wrong from an omniscient outsider’s point of view. From Magnus’s position, knowing only what he knew and having only the experience he had, almost all of his decisions make perfect logical sense at the time. He did everything wrong, but the majority of it was through no fault of his own. The council was the biggest dumb thing he did.

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

Magnus the Red did almost literally everything wrong and in the process damned his sons and humanity.

[@dexaphobia8085]

@@SpartanAltair15for every bit of blame one can lay at his feet, double that can be laid at the emperors and leman russ’s

[@kamikuru4014]

No.

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

Yes.

[@Warmaster2001]

Yes. They deserve to fall. Arrogant Psykers without discipline, caution is a madness and insanity. And Thousand Sons are like that. Arrogant, indisciplined mob of Psykers under Magnus who is also a arrogant Psyker who managed to completly destroy emperors webway plan and he doomed Emperor to sit to the golden throne before Horus even reached the Solar System to hold daemons. Good deeds can bring to the hell sometimes. And Magnus doing just that. Thinking that he is saving but it goes otherwise and he had done damage that Horus and Lorgar will dream to do like that. And he is also selfish. He want to use unsanctioned ways to warn Emperor and try to hold Horus for the sake of in the future repelling of Nicaea degrees.

[@SoulRuninFree]

⁠@@Warmaster2001 yeah but none of them ever wanted to really betray the emperor. Not to mention the fact that they have had more than enough done to them. Hell in the current setting you can’t even call them the thosand sons anymore bc there is only like eighty of them left( that have not been turned in to rubric marines or died). Also their ARE WAY worse traiter legion actually you could literally name any of them. Ironically if you look at they’re legion history their the only ones out of them that did not needlessly decimate entire planets. They were one of the only really morally upright legion( along with the sallies) that just took a planet with what was necessary. Which since they are all psychers, that was not much. Honestly I can’t render myself to believe that. I mean hell their the only traiter legion that’s actively trying to get away from choas, Arhirman being my example.