The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 1)

Discussion between Thunderf00t (Physical Evidence and Reasoned Logic supporter (Pearlist)) and Ray Comfort (Creationist Christian).
Journal entry 22nd July 2009. (relevant bit, whole entry is too long for rest see beautyintheuniverse)
Up with dawnpeckish so found mcdonalds for breakfast. Back to Rays place where I had about 4 hrs to kill before our meeting at 11ish. Started adding placemarkers to the bible at the interesting bits I had found. By the time I had finished there was a lot of blue post it notes sticking out the bible. It has now also become clear to me that while my preferred modus opperandi has been in the defense of science, I have now read enough of the bible that I could utterly shred this shepherds myth. Its an interesting question should I set all the time I have spent going through the bible in detail to naught and just let Christianity have its peace, or should I actively engage in its demise. When the ministry opened at 9ish I went and introduced myself, and they gave me a rather officious line about not doing anything till the appointed time. No big deal for me, I put some effort into ordering the car and mending some bust electronics (resoldering wires etc). Stuff that had been put on the back burner for expediency on the road, but a more ordered man would have taken care of he went along. Saw Ray arrive by car, which raised an eyebrow as the 60 minutes thing said he cycled to work. Probably just he didnt want to cycle if he was going to be on camera. As a cyclist myself something I could empathize with. Ray is a small man, but chirpy and polite. Surprisingly Ray now informed me that there was no problem in me filming. Hmmm wtf?, but my only care at the time was the original deal was being honored. Shortly after he invited me in it was a little intro and pretty much straight down to business. The consequence of which was I only had a few minutes to brief him on points I wanted to raise. A point which I was keen on doing as I wanted the point I was making to survive robust scrutiny, and not to survive simply as they were bought up in real time (catching someone on the hop). The moments that raised an eyebrow for me was how quickly ray picked up on me lying to him, as an example of how religions are created an propagated. (by mechanism of the almighty Tod!) I am a poor liar. Its amazing though, how well even folk like ray can pick up on the bodylanguage. On watching the video you can see it all. How he gets uncomfortable and starts shuffling. I cant remember too much of the details (it was too much of a manic day) but I do remember seeing Ray being troubled by some of the points I was making. I could see the doubt of a man challenged with a concept altogether new to him. I could see it in his bodylanguage of his eyes. After that we went to lunch ray was buying. We took the camera man too who is obviously a hovind fan. Systematically I went through his points one by one and in the most mild of demeanors academically shredded them. The shame being that noone else at the table, other than myself would have been able to assess the academic veracity of my arguments. Ray offered to help me out by putting me up in a motel for a night (after a fashion). The offer was sincere and I think somewhat precipitated by rays sympathy for what he perceived as my hardship. I graciously thanked him for the offer but turned it down in that I like rough life in the wide open space. After lunch ray gave me a tour of the ministry. The place clearly oozes with money. Rays artifacts are very coy (a skeleton for the cupboard etc) He also has a collection of fake hominids not something to inspire someone with confidence about ones academic footing.
Then had a long chat with the camera man about the history of the earth (using the correlated history of earth poster). One by one I cut down the hovind arguments, and eventually all he had left was to simply say there are both sides of the argument.
Its amazing testament to the feedback mechanisms of the mind, that even after the foundations of his belief had been systematically and academically removed till none remained that he was still sure that there was two sides to the argument. Then had another chat with ray, which I wish I had recorded.. mostly about the bible. The things I really remember was that Ray believes in witches, wizards, demons and sorcerers. Hmmm thats usually a end of conversation type moment. He also thinks that the holocaust was gods way of punishing the jews. I told him very clearly that that was not going to make him very popular if he voiced such opinions in public.
Ray left and I spent an hour talking with his graphic design man. He clearly wasnt greatly interested in talking about points of contest, and we got on very well. He was a model maker and pilot. We talked teccie for an hour or so. A good guy!

[@MrClickity]

It always amazes me that some people think that any answer, regardless of evidence, is superior to "I don't know" That seems to be the creationist position: "I'm certain with my beliefs, you aren't, therefore I'm right." To that, I'll just quote Nietzsche: "A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

[@TVlord5]

It's because people seem to assume that when someone says "I don't know" they mean they'll never know, can't ever know, or don't want to find out. They think it stops at "I don't know." When someone who thinks says "I don't know" the unspoken (and just as often actually spoken) follow-up is "but I'll stop at nothing to find out"

[@thickerconstrictor9037]

I explained to a friend of mine why saying I don't know is not giving any more support to their beliefs. At one point if you had asked where does lightning come from and one person says Zeus throws it and the other person said I don't know, does that give the Zeus statement credibility? Of course not. Same thing

[@Shoebill]

"How was Earth made?" "Well, science hasn't exactly deduced an official cau-..." "You don't know?! Guess god is real then, ignorance can just be replaced with god, god did this god did that!!" *falls to ground and foams at mouth*

[@clopperextraordinaire8782]

"We don't know, therefore God" -Ray Comfort

[@amanuelyimer3739]

we dont now therefore evolution

[@remix4098]

@@amanuelyimer3739 we actually do know about evolution because it is predictable observable and provable through noticeable patterns. Not true of God. God is lacking evidence at best. Flat out non existent or unprovable at worst.

[@TurdFurgeson275]

@@amanuelyimer3739 yeah, leave it to the athiest brony to be a ironic cringe factory.

[@JasonWorks-rf1yt]

​@@TurdFurgeson275would it be better coming from a Bible literalist homeschooled pastor's kid that left the church, found out about bristlecone pine trees, and the 10,000+ feet of mountain under them that have been in California for at least 800 years before Noah's mythical flood... We have living non clonal trees that have been growing since 2,800 bce.. the genealogies, creation, and divine inspiration of the Bible are absolute garbage, mythology, and fraud as history/evidence/something that should be taught/reason for tax exemption.

[@greendragonreprised6885]

9.37 'We can't make cheese' - Ray Comfort Where does he think cheeses comes from? Cheese is made by people. Blessed are the cheesemakers, for goodness sake.

[@drfreddave9020]

Love the MP ref

[@alheeley]

@@drfreddave9020 Well obviously it's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

[@drfreddave9020]

@@alheeley errr ok

[@alheeley]

@@drfreddave9020 Have you not seen the clip from life of brian?! :D kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6mvhniDn5uWraM

[@ldjt6184]

Cheese is the end product. Who made the ingredients and who made the ingredient maker? You people think in such basic rudimentary terms, it's hilarious.

[@larryjake7783]

The flip? How the hell did he get Thuderfoot being an African American name? What the actual hell?!

[@larryjake7783]

Alberto Balsalm What prejudices? How do you know I projected an image on him? When did I say it was stupid? Did you not just commit the same thing you claimed of me? I am trying to understand why this man asked if it had any connection to African American names. What is it about Thunderfoot that would imply such a thing? I would ask this question if it was any heritage he spoke about; because there is nothing in the name to imply it's connection with any typical culture. Stop making presumptions about people making presumptions.

[@larryjake7783]

Alberto Balsalm *You do. That's the culture of fans of Thunderf00t and New Atheism in general. Holding in esteem those who think differently than those who think similarly.* I'm not a fan of Thunderfoot, I just think he had better points in this argument. I am also not a New Atheist. I am not an Atheist. You made a false assumption again. *There's nothing significant about RC's statement. Yet you seem bewildered by it. Whether stupidity or some other emotion you are projecting it on him.* Er the significance of his statement was that he asked a question that made no sense. The what the "flip" and "the hell" was simply exaggerated expressions on the internet dude. I do this with random videos to express the shock I have in real life. So on the net I make it more expressive so that others can see my level of shock or awe. *Why the emotion then? If TF said it you would just be curious and maybe google it* You again made an assumption about me though. I would probably ask that even if TF asked that question. How does the name Thunderfoot have any connections to any typical culture? And why would he assume it is of a culture that is different from TF's culture. Is Ray insinuating something? Probably not but it was random as hell, hence the "what the flip" and "the hell" comment I made. Nothing personally against Ray. I mean he seems like a kind man but his arguments are very flawed and not because I disagree with him but because they do not make any sense, most of them.

[@larryjake7783]

Zaveid lol

[@bobmatron]

+Larry Jake Native African Americans were famously fast runners. He thought it might have been something to do with that. It was an odd presumption but ThunderF00t is an odd name

[@TaberIV]

I don't know if I can watch this whole series, because it's just thunderf00t trying to teach a man that doesn't want to learn.

[@trickerdgaming]

when he speaks right lol and saying space came with out creation maybe is a huge blind faith jump....

[@TaberIV]

+animetrickerd I know I can't stand it haha. When any of these discussions get far enough, they always hit the bedrock of "the bible is right because God said so, because God said the bible is right." There's just no logic to anything this guy thinks.

[@Eddieshred]

Undoubtfully most Greeks (the plebs) and also people in the Medieval period would think the earth is flat or appearing it to be flat though.

[@antr6092]

uneducated folk thought the earth was flat but the circumference of the earth was worked 4000 years ago

[@kanejones7958]

+Ant R I don't think it was 4000 years ago....... that was before Jesus was supposedly born, way, way before then

[@tonydorsett33]

What's the worst part of Ray Comfort is that he's either 1 of 2 things. 1 - He's an idiot, who just doesn't understand the basics of science and wants to stay ignorant. 2 - He's being purposely deceitful and has been explained evolution but continues to misrepresent it. I go with 2. It's been explained to him many, many times. He goes on some show, argues with a scientist, has evolution explained to him and how he's misrepresenting it, then turns around and goes on some Christian show and continues to say the same things. That shows me he's just a liar, and it's amazing to me how religious people who preach truth, righteousness and morality, lie and deceive on purpose to preach their beliefs.

[@mnptm]

***** watch baud bits channel and i think you will have your answer, baud bits traces comforts money; comfort plays the fool because he is bringing in millions $$$$.

[@Brammy007a]

***** 1 + 2 = 3 All of the above.....Ray is an idiot and wants to stay ignorant. He is also a liar since he claims that he's never heard basic scientific facts that have been explained to him many many times. Ray is afraid of information. He's content with his hyper-simplistic 'god did it' mantra and the thought of bringing anything more complex into his brain simply terrifies him.

[@MrKylecardinal]

+Brammy007a Hes not afraid of info, Hes against it. These people know damn well there full of shit, But if your bank account was padded by the fears of the dying and weak you would wanna stay true to your bullshit as well.

[@MrKylecardinal]

I agree completely. I would argue Ken Ham is sincierly a fool. How is it someone who still looks half caveman denies evolution?

[@Brammy007a]

+MrKylecardinal >>>>>>>> How is it someone who still looks half caveman denies evolution?.......................... HAAA!... and I thought I was the only one who noticed that!

[@biohoo22]

Ray Comfort: In one ear, out the other.

[@crocdoc2]

You forgot a step: In one ear, through a space which would (in other people) be occupied by a brain, out the other ear.

[@biohoo22]

crocdoc2 I thought one one better: In one ear, into a black hole that used to occupy the space of a brain...any information is destroyed forever.

[@biohoo22]

crocdoc2 I think that might be why he insists on repeating the same five arguments over and over...for the past DECADE....without modifying his argument.

[@huge_balls]

In one ear then digested and it comes out as shit.

[@TVlord5]

Jonathan Biohoo In one ear, sucked into a black hole, the energy of that signal that should be transmitted to the brain breaks down as reality collapses, reconstitutes as a banana, comes out as dumb theories

[@someguy7540]

So rays logic is that saying we don't know, is a cope out, but saying god did it isn't a cope out?

[@djr5995]

+PirateShark That's because saying 'god did it' is *so much better* as an explanation. Any moron can see that it clearly makes sooo much more sense. 'god did it' is the best reason ever because you can apply it to anything you don't know about, i.e. Why 'X'? because god, that's why! Wow now I know.

[@someguy7540]

DJR That's true, I can clearly see the logic and reasoning used in this argument.

[@corichin2156]

well, it's nice to see two grown ass men actually sit down and have a conversation like smart, mature, ethical and logical people, and not whiny accusing babies, this gives me hope for the world

[@Subatomic1000]

If Ray had his way he would drag us into another dark age. Debating and fighting idiots like him is very important.

[@AltairDhauglu]

Debating them does nothing to them. This guy has had the same arguments on his face for decades and still tries to pull out that lame argument of creation needs a creator -_-. I agree with Dusty. Mockery seems to work better

[@AltairDhauglu]

Sebastian Villa Or not giving them air time. Silence treatment and not debating with them as if their position is held as equal in a discussion about science. BTW nice job Bill Nye

[@HenkkaArtGames]

Sebastian Villa I don't think that the point of debating people like Ray Comfort is about trying to change his mind about things. Like you said, he has had the evidence before him for years and nothing has happened. But these debates can and will shed light to the ridiculous concepts that people like Comfort propose and perhaps, just perhaps people who are watching these, people who are not yet at the deep end with Comfort but aren't either at the other end of the spectrum with the scientific consensus, might see the situation, see the evidence laid down before them and avoid the trap of the theism and wishful thinking.

[@Dauserofdasite]

Sebastian Villa Even if it doesn't change HIS viewpoint, if you publicly debunk and humiliate him you could be stopping his rubbish from infecting youths or the uniformed adults who are undecided. Never EVER stop the fight for truth!

[@robsmith2844]

Ray Comforts arguments fell so flat, and were so mundane, it was obvious he had stopped listening at the very beginning, even as he was asking Thunderf00t the first questions. Comfort can't publicly spout this crap for too much longer. He just looks too stupid.

[@INMATE2468]

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality." - George Bernard Shaw

[@halogamersud21]

Wtf african american ancestors?

[@nakedmongoose6837]

Ray Comfort is a creationist and therefore does not believe that Caucasians like all groups are the descendants of sub-Saharan Africans. So, he was basically saying to Thunderf00t "Did you give yourself an African name to drive home the point that we are all descendants of Africans?"

[@captainplanet999]

biggest thing to notice right from the get go: ray comfort needs notes, thunderf00t is too badass for notes =)

[@iainwalker8701]

If you understand your own point of view there is no need for notes. I normally go into meetings without notes as i decide what to say at the time, rather than trying to guess questions that may be asked, or ask questions that may be irrelevant based on the direction of the conversation. Only thing i occasionally use notes for is to make up for my terrible memory and to prevent me being distracted by things that are brought up.

[@jesperjee]

2 minutes in and Ray Comfort has already proven he is an idiot....That has to be some sort of record.

[@dylan45044]

+Mr Jee why do you think ThunderfOOt agreed to this, lol? Exactly because Comfort is utterly woeful as a debater, particularly where science is concerned. I thought it interesting that ThunderfOOt totally ignored the latest cosmological evidence for a starting point for the universe. ("mankind does not know" , I think the cosmology and quantum mechanics community would strongly disagree) Also, he seems to think that "science" is the one infallible human endeavor, not subject to the foils of humans (i.e. his discussion on dictators and the progression of knowledge). This is comical. Science is only as intellectually honest and good as the scientists practicing it. This has remained the case, unchanged, throughout the ages. Note I am NOT saying that knowledge hasn't increased. Only that a consensus of opinion or thought in the scientific community can be a double edged sword.

[@masterbuilder6334]

+Christon Shepard While I hesitate to call him an idiot, he is clearly heavily biased against TF. This shapes up within a very short period of time as more of a soft interrogation rather than a discussion. "Why the name thunderfoot, african-american/ancestors?" - invokes potential racial divisions "Stomping on Christians" - Needlessly emphasizes religious conflict "Why are you godless" - Negative connotations of 'godless' vs. atheist or even non-believer, purposefully confrontational "I know what was in the beginning" - arrogance, no he doesn't know, he has faith that what the Bible tells him is correct. As for 'latest cosmological evidence, this video was posted over five years ago. Was that evidence available then?

[@jesperjee]

Christon Shepard Scientists would be the first to say that science isn´t infallible. When science fails to prove something they try again until different results point to a conclusion. A conclusion that might not be 100% accurate but the closest thing to a point. What Ray does is chuck it all out and say because something cannot be proven 100% then his answer is correct. Which is of course nonsense. I wouldn´t say that TF is the most skillful debater but no sane person could last long with Ray Comfort without getting frustrated and in that regard I am very impressed with his efforts.

[@jesperjee]

Alberto Balsalm Not at all. I listen to a person and judge by what they are saying and how they are acting. But yeah, it depends I guess. If someone genuinly believed children were going to burn forever for one little lie they told that one time then I would most definately call them an idiot too.

[@abumy4]

+Alberto Balsalm You know calling people who were smarter than you and way more useful than you and all the time/money wasting religions makes you look dumb.

[@wojciechjankowski5707]

Gee thunderf00t sure does stutter a lot. And I love it. He puts a lot of thought into what he's saing and tries to put it all in the clearest words possible. Meanwhile Ray Comfort - not even a second of thinking throughout the entire video.

[@gifgit]

+ Wojciech Jankowski That`s because Ray Cumfart works from a script and will never deviate whereas Thunderfoot considers his position and responses before speaking. Ray and his cronies are fucked when you derail them from their script , they start to stutter and panic.XD

[@chowder5901]

after watching that westboro "Debate" I'm happy to see ray comfort being civilized and respectful.

[@hamsarosenberg4325]

+Alberto Balsalm Agreed...most atheists are like that too

[@caIigula]

+Alberto Balsalm You seriously have to check your sense of humour and satire, the way I experienced Thunder00t is a determined, logics-loving and most importantly, never vengeful in a way I would describe being deserved by most recipients, BUT he sometimes lacks a little bit of this fine-tuning of his meanings, which I think result from him being very direct and having an attitude of being used to say what is true and correct, like the one time he was called a "Nazi-denialist" for a four year old comment in which he stated, in capital letters, that he fully acknowledges/understands that the holocaust was an utterly inhumane, unforgivable singular act in history, but then uses the expression, that hasn't shed a tear for any of the six million jews killed, which the guy who then called him a "nazi-denialist" misunderstands, while ignoring the part of the comment where TF is stating he sees it as an utterly inhumane act, while taking the hasn't shed a tear as a metaphor, while TF meant it literally, that he simply hasn't cried about it, like most people who weren't alive during that time and jewish/roma etc. That's simply straight out honesty, I mean many people would say they could cry every night about it, but is it really that bad to be honest, especially about stuff like feelings, for which never ever one has to produce an excuse, at least I don't know of anyone having the control over his feelings. I simply think he is mostly misunderstood by religious folks etc. They always seem to think he wants to ridicule religion only for some cheap lulz, but I think he always wants to deliver a point, just as he states here, that knowledge can be lost if people will rather belief in things who cannot be disproven e.g., are infaillable, and therefore not scientfically of any worth... Mr. Comfort agrees, that knowledge IS the thing that makes us different from people from the stone age, just as anyone else. Even if you believe that only a belief in god can make a good scientist, I don't know of any scientist, who said he had the solution after a prayer, NO, it's hard work, not simply a talk with "god" or whatever you wanna call that unproven being... Also, even if he sometimes is offensive, his adversaries mostly, if not all, are much worse in that regard, threatening physical violence for example, (HannibalTheVictor13) or giving all the Muslim students of his University his personal adress and name etc (DawahFilms). And on the other hand, ONLY being offensive isn't an argument and isn't really as bad as some people take it, "I find that offensive", as if these word would constitute an argument, you cannot disprove someone being incorrect simply ecause he/she is rude, not that TF really is that, not at all in comparison what you find on the Internet...

[@ser_random_video_watcher]

The fact that you don't agree with me, question my authority and wrote 'explain' with a lowercase 'e', offends me. You're arrogant and insulting. I win.

[@ser_random_video_watcher]

TMI. Too bad hell doesn't exist.

[@DarkRaven4561]

at least Ray Cumfart couldn't use his trademark jump cuts and careful editing to change what was actually said, like in all his other videos

[@dannysnee4945]

Luckily this one wasn't his video

[@deanlowdon8381]

Ray Comfort: "You don't know, I know" As soon as someone says that debating them is pointless.

[@sciencegenerallyworksoverh656]

Thunderf00t, I am sure you are a nice man, but why must you subject your loyal subscribers to such a torture as to listen to Ray Comfort?

[@Kerygmachela]

1.Thunderfoot says something intelligent 2. Comfort fails to understand. 3. Return to 1.

[@Kayyyleb]

I love how Ray starts thinking "GOTCHA!" when TF says the origin of the universe is an unknown.

[@joekeenan6435]

People did not believe the Earth was flat a couple hundred of years ago. For at least 2500 years it has been known to be round.

[@melexdy]

Which one of the greeks was it? Cant remember the name..

[@joekeenan6435]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

[@joekeenan6435]

The E man calculated the circumference of the Earth, but they knew it was round before that of course. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

[@melexdy]

Joe Keenan Yeah that must be the one. Too bad all knowledge before the 8th century bc was lost..

[@joekeenan6435]

I don't know about lost, it's tough to preserve "books" because of their fragility. But knowledge is passed on somehow. Lots has been lost to the sands of time though.

[@ledhead504]

"We can't make cheese or butter" -Ray Comfort

[@larryjake7783]

+ledhead504 LMFAO when the actual truth is those are things we actually make, they do not occur naturally.

[@clariecefoxx]

Wait a minute he said recreate as in we can't make them from nothing. So he's right in that sense.

[@larryjake7783]

clariece cameron Yeah but milk and cheese are things that just exist in nature. Granted the individual components of them we can't create from nothing is true, cheese and milk are products we made. And it is meaningless to say we can't create cheese or milk from nothing since those products do not even exist at all until we made them.

[@slohand-2001]

I'd like to see you make milk from nothing (no homo)

[@witnessfirsthand]

How does he stay so calm? If someone told me "I know what happened in the beginning, you don't, God created earth" I would fucking freak out.

[@witnessfirsthand]

joshua barnes He does seem to have that passive aggressive nature to him, you're totally spot on about him reaching for a reaction. Fortunately Thunderf00t is a great image for atheism and doesn't play childish tactics like the guy with the 80's porn-mustache. lol

[@JAMESLEVEE]

Sounds like Ray wants to believe in God so he can call his ignorance something like knowledge.

[@rainegoldberg9376]

Nope. Ray sounds extremely intelligent, you are the one who sounds ignorant here.

[@mikebryant3818]

Even the Catholic church believes in evolution and the big bang. I think the universe grows and then collapses on itself like a star turning into a black hole starting the big bang all over again forever.

[@TheRyanlax04]

Super interesting thought.

[@trashgaming7080]

"Scroll back a few hundred years ago and people thought the earth was flat." First of all no. People figured out the earth was somewhat spherical for closer to 2500 years. Good old Greeks. Funnily enough, though it's 2018 now and people somehow think the earth is flat. Mind boggling.

[@leebrondum2643]

Ha, "so you believe we came from nothing" just like your god came from nothing LOL

[@ricks.6690]

Oh,your god didn't came from nothing,he created himself,because it makes sense.

[@dannysnee4945]

+k'ser oneia Do you think God is eternal ?

[@anupamatirkey2648]

@@ricks.6690 how can anyone create himself? Like really how?

[@broskichannel4163]

smh The bible says God is without a beginning or an end in other words eternal. at least we are logical

[@coffeeandbytes9854]

@@broskichannel4163 how is that claim in any way logical? It's an excuse, nothing more.

[@andrewlinn7863]

I love both of these men, I'm glad I could see them arguing politely. Many of the comments however, are full of non-arguments which usually mock these men. Remember this, mocking a viewpoint does more to keep people from the truth; if you have compassion for someone, you will try to win them over to your side with reason.

[@Jw-un8oh]

Your comment sucks and I hate you

[@spec24]

Come on guys, 2009? Can't we get better microphones?

[@Murrangurk2]

DEMS WAS DA MICRO-PHONS WHAT GOD JESUS PROPHESIED IN THE HOLY BIBLE. IF'N DEY IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS DEY IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU SINNER!

[@djr5995]

OH NO!! Ray comes from NZ. I feel shame that this guy is a 'representative' for us! Actually NZ is a rather secular country, and it won't be long until the census shows that there are more people in NZ that are non-religious than there are that are religious

[@gilbertramirezpt]

First off ray makes the statement rational discussion between two opposing world views, then he deflects to thunderfoots name choice. It's 2014 but there is something to learn here don't let ray gish gallop like a passive aggressive personality. Don't let him change the topic of his own accord. Is this a rational discussion or a polite one?religion is not rational it is faith based. Is atheism a worldview? No it isn't. There is the entire conversation do not let up until Ray admits that rationally atheism isn't a world view but that ray's religion uses strawman arguments as the world view of atheists. Ray wins this discussion by making TF look confused and unsure while lowing him to make knowledge claims that are irrational.

[@tdsmtdsm]

You are absolutely right. And more what is the point in discussing anything with this man and others like him. They only want to confuse and make reason and logic appear like a belief or faith. He knows science in know a point of view. Ray is a sick man. Stay way.

[@danlay4819]

Makes me feel bad for coming from New Zealand... We are not this bad, I promise

[@dcblunt666]

+Dan Lay No worries. It's not nearly as embarrassing as being from America. We export 95% of these loonies.

[@yevchavery6630]

Up is not down its jusf a story of a mythological beings capturing a big ass fish and decided to say it was up side down. But you probably already knew that.

[@patrickl6932]

Powerful Thunderf00t ! Fighting the good fight !

[@MasterKickArse]

Everyday i wake up in the middle of the night from a terrifying nightmare, each night i dream that Ray Comfort is somehow related to me and I am going to church every sunday. I fear for my life. I've only ever been to church twice and had to walk out within 10 minutes because it was so boring. please, don't make me go to church every sunday.

[@antonio8904100]

God this is painful

[@joewilson2929]

Great conversation!!! Watched all 9 vids. :D Good job to both of you for staying composed and respectful to each other. Never mind who I agree with.

[@DeathandGrim2]

Alright I'm writing this as I begin my journey into this video. Will I make it out alive?

[@maikethepiper]

Saying we "don't know" isn't a cop-out, it's an acceptance of the fact that we don't know. Us not knowing isn't proof of Ray's beliefs. If you don't know something you do research to find the truth, you don't just accept the first half-baked explanation somebody gives you.

[@carlos89784]

We should be happy that people like Mr. Comfort exist. It should serve as motivation to learn, to be rational and logical, to find answers and to not be like him.

[@skype666]

couldn't have said it any better! It's very sad that ppl like him exist.

[@hailsagan8886]

Science has questions that may never be answered. Religion has answers that may never be questioned

[@StalinsSecretPolice]

Or maybe they just have questions that have been asked for millennia with no answers so far. Which gives them certain reverance

[@carolinafine8050]

Your silly little play on words isn’t accurate and does nothing more than try to impress with paradox

[@lkeaboy]

I can't watch this. You must wait cancer..

[@DarthMorius]

I really sympathize with you, I cannot imagine how frustrating it must be to try and converse with people who don't seem to understand the meaning of the words you are saying, and then they extrapolate an argument based off their own reinterpretation of what you have literally just said to them.

[@rebelresource]

Oh my goodness.. I am a Christian and this is just terrible. LLOLOL

[@dannysnee4945]

It must be hard listening to a representative of your religion claim that we can't make cheese or butter

[@ThuckBuddies]

It always gets me how this topic is something where both sides will look at the same bit of footage and say "my guy done good there, we handedly won this argument". You just know Ray Comf's peeps are sitting there at home going "haha you got him to admit he didn't know something" whereas any rational person always works from the unknown until they can determine something to be fact. I'm a sort of semi-reluctant agnostic (atheist with commitment issues probably sums it up equally well) and I think I kind of do want it all to be true just for my mum (because she has a strong faith) but that being said, creationists and evangelicals annoy the hell out of me. I always think for supposed Christians they give off so much hate that if there was a God determining who was getting in and who wasn't there isn't a snowball's chance he'll turn down the humanist who happens to not believe in a God but let in the Christian bigot who has only ever forced good deeds to hedge their bets on the side of eternal paradise. Thunderf00t hit the nail on the head right at the beginning. Each to their own in the privacy of their home. You don't find (too many) atheists posting online blogs or vlogs spewing actual hate and vilification of entire religions (maybe towards a specific individual if their actions justify it). Instead, it's always the so-called 'Christian' that's really goes off against entire groups. Luckily it's mostly just American Christianity that has become so hateful and corrupted and doesn't often affect me. It's beyond me how these so-called 'Christians' can be for the death penalty (despite the disturbingly high rate of exonerations, and even more worrying how it doesn't seem to matter since the wrongful convictions seem to disproportionately affect black men), or force a woman to carry a foetus she knows will have no quality of life due to either congenital illness / disability / social circumstances, or be insanely pro-gun (where a pistol for self-defence isn't enough and fully automatic assault rifles are a supposed necessity) as well as the bizarre, associated bloodlust that has become entangled with defending that right (the second amendment), where these people seem to relish the prospect of going to war against the government and presumably enjoy the slaughter that would go along with that, or how it's these same people regularly supporting laws making discrimination against specific groups of people entirely acceptable (which amounts to legislated hatred), or how it's these same Christians that want to deny free and widely accessible healthcare to everyone and insult their dignity in the process by telling them it's not affordable even though pretty much all of Europe has been able to do it for decades and an entirely free American health service could probably be funded by forcing the Pentagon to be more transparent and less wasteful or maybe even by fund it by resolving to drop bombs in one less country than the year before. And that's another thing. It's these same Christians that'll say insane things like "we need to carpet bomb the hell out of Iraq and Syria" regardless of whether they have any clue who is actually on the ground at the time. So many of them are so hateful and hypocritical that I honestly think sometimes there was a queue and if God was letting these people in, I'd think, you know what, I'm not sure this is for me. Eternal damnation isn't my thing either so can I hang out in purgatory and spend all of eternity meeting all sorts of people I wouldn'tve met otherwise? Or go back as a ghost? Maybe that's what ghosts are... Decent people, many Christians and many non-Christians at the gates of heaven and seeing hoardes of Christians-in-name-only getting in and thinking this is kind of stupid. Hmm. I'm behaving like a creationist now. Next I'll be spinning a tale about how ghosts are what I have already described above BUT poltergeists are the damned people got wiped out in the flood and that's why why there aren't that many of them and why many of their 'pranks' (for want of a better term) involve flooding your house or scalding your by turning off the cold water supply on a mixer tap. It's always the flood with you people. Whatever it is, it's always the flood.

[@frogbear02]

As wrong as Ray is, I highly respect his respect of Thunderf00t, by letting him speak and not interjecting like the Westboro Baptist Church did.

[@damvid21]

Atheists need to remember to keep things simple when dealing with theists. RC: How did the universe come about? TF: It's unknown. RC: Well I know, it was God! TF: Ok, and how did God come about? RC: Err, God has no beginning and no end! TF: Maybe the universe is the same. RC: ...

[@jakubmike5657]

There is one point in the bible that is strange. Man was created last, all the world and animals were made before him. That is strange because ancient cultures valued age, if something was old it was clearly better then new thing. That was the core of their tradition, which is why human being the youngest of all creatures is counter intuitive for creation myth and is actually something worth investigating.

[@raikkonen85]

Humans cannot survive without light, air, food, wAter. we need all them things to survive. How could we survive if none of those things existed.

[@Nanamowa]

Well to some extent, pretty much all living things need those to survive, even very basic life needs food and water and light, and sometimes air, though it depends on what you mean by air, either way this comment is pretty random as it doesnt reply to the latter apropriatly

[@IamAnthonological]

Disturbed0ne Sectioned is a term for being involuntarily committed to a hospital for having a severe medical illness.

[@li0nhart4477]

How is it a cop out to say we don't know how the universe got here?, it's the truth. Saying that god created it is the cop out as that's the easy way out (and unproven) just because we don't know the answer. Because they think they know, they are satisfied and don't look any further into it. It's no wonder why the majority of believers are uneducated as they lack critical thinking and logic and a basic understanding of the universe. They need to be told what to think rather than think for themselves.

[@gmn545]

There's only 2 premises and a conclusion for KCA; she didn't "misquote" any of them. And the fact remains, the physicists that Craig appeals to do NOT come to his conclusion. As Victor Stenger notes: "I then asked Vilenkin, “Does your theorem prove that the universe must have had a beginning?” He immediately replied, 'No. But it proves that the expansion of the universe must have had a beginning. You can evade the theorem by postulating that the universe was contracting prior to some time.'"

[@logicalamerican]

The synopsis: On the left: A man who is comfortable with not knowing and yet knows so much. On the right: A man who is uncomfortable with not knowing yet knows so little. Food for thought.

[@mullacbackwards9791]

I don't really agree with Ray Comforts ideas, but hes atleast civil and I can respect that. The same cant be said about the Westboro baptist church...

[@awsomesauce03]

that hole video made me want to drive to ther house with a bus full of people and hold up signs saying i fucked jesus in the hands and he like it or i did anal with satan

[@-Zer0Dark-]

After scientists discovered amino acids on asteroids and comets, they came up with the idea of "Panspermia", wherein foreign bodies (which were striking the early Earth in a torrent) could have contaminated Earth with amino acids. To test this, they placed an amino acid solution into what is essentially a massive air-gun and fired them into a solid object with the same force of an asteroid. Upon doing so, they found that the amino acids remained intact, thus

[@photografr7]

QUESTION: Which important and fundamental question did all of mankind believe was true since the time of the great Greek philosophers, which was only proven to be entirely false in 1938 Germany? If I receive enough responses, I'll post the correct answer.

[@GodmyX]

Thank you, ThunderF00t! You are incredibly patient and polite - I don't know whether I could be the same in such debate.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

"Why are you godless? Why do you believe in evil?" *Later admits to believing in witches and wizards and demons, categorically evil things. Therefore he believes in evil.* One must believe in the existence of evil in order to believe in the existence of good.

[@Freshwaterboy]

Ray just cannot wrap his mind around science. I am beginning to see a pattern here.

[@zapzeus988]

Why is it that the Christian "God" is the answer to creation? Why isn't that another "God" may have created the universe? So arrogant, all religions!

[@SatchmoScy]

I just have to say, Thunderf00t, I am so impressed with you. I already knew you spoke with eloquently and intelligently, but you also are so patient with someone you disagree with. You are doing better than I could do. Thank you for the wonderful example.

[@zachschraufnagel695]

I think the problem is their definition of KNOW and they are talking past each other. It appears that Thunderf00t is using 'know' is knowledge gained through what we can understand to be true by our senses - logic, testing, material world, etc, but Ray appears to be using 'know' to include an understanding gained through belief in this Biblical record, reason, conscience and experience. The Bible does say we know certain things like God's existence ---> Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

[@Loremn]

I wish Thunderf00t was a better speaker. He has such knowledge, but unlike Dawkins, he is not as articulate as he could be. It's really frustrating because these bloody creationists all seem to speak with the fluidity of a successful con man.

[@ryandickinson4]

I love how creationists try to use the fact that scientists are comfortable with saying "I don't know" against them. I think one of the first things I was taught as a child was never to trust anyone who believes they have the answer to everything, especially when that something is the creation of the universe which would require years of study to come up with a tenuous hypothesis and not just the simple reading of a 2000 year old book that says so.

[@aabbccddeeffgg1234]

ooo, this is the crazy banana guy. i love his idea that the banana is made by god to fit the hand perfectly, humans are who genetically modified the banana so it ended up looking like that. so what ray is saying is that humans are god.

[@SuperSlartibartfast]

A small point but I think very relevant. Ray asserts that you must be omniscient to know what is cannot be known. Alan Turing showed mathematically that certain problems can never be solved. Greg Chatin showed that some numbers are unknowable and Heisenberg showed that the properties of any object can never be fully known.

[@andrewvalenzuela1790]

I was looking forward to listening to this. However the audio quality is so bad that I cannot understand what is being said. Too much background noise.

[@MegaMech]

I went from watching: Thunderf00t -Westboro Baptist Church (full interview) to watching this... Yelling and screaming, to a quiet discussion.

[@deanmoncaster]

"saying I don't know is the ultimate cop out. God did it" Erm did you do huge hypocrisy right there? Saying God did it is the same as saying, I don't know.

[@aue82a]

Ray Comfort "New Zealand , where I come from" I personally am glad he left. Newton's laws still work here.

[@FarWanderer81]

"Who are you to say that your opinion is right and the other is wrong?" I'm me. I'm me. Nothing more, but also nothing LESS. I have a duty to myself to be myself. I'm not going to sit idly by afraid to express my own morality just because it's subjective, especially when no one else is doing that. Why is the murderer allowed to murder but I am not allowed to express condemnation for it? Why should I employ a double standard against myself?

[@The3biscuits]

I wonder how he feels about our being unable to create things after we've effectively brought a previously extinct species of frog, back.

[@leesawford]

Ray comfort - indeed , when one thinks of this man the words ‘Jesus Christ’ certainly comes to mind -or more accurately’ Jesus fucking Christ’ !

[@digitalbeachbum]

I like that point about how people say "the universe was created" but in reality that is a fallacy. To say that the universe was created assumes that there was a cause, a purpose or a creator.

[@redgefleming1535]

Ray Comfort wants to be stupid -Conversation in a nutshell

[@SuperSupermanX1999]

Ray's point that 'we' cannot create is irrelevant. We're not arguing that 'we' created the world, so what 'we' can do is irrelevant. The whole point is that we 'don't know' where the universe came from. However just because we haven't figured something out 'yet' doesn't mean that you can throw God in and say "AHAH! See? I know the answer!"

[@DanOfAwsome]

ray says the same thing over and over again. "you don't know" and when we assess that he does not know and cannot not know, he goes back at you saying you don't know, something can't come from nothing, therefore Jesus is our lord and savior.

[@drakyln7808]

What? How does that prove anything?

[@DanOfAwsome]

Leon Kisaragi Prove? i had nothing to prove with that statement, just showing how circular his logic is.

[@xeanheart2614]

Drakyln god came from nothing but nothing can come from nothing, therefore god

[@beastydude123]

Why are private or Christian/Catholic schools proven to have less violence? It's because some of the morals that keep people in line. Most likely not because of the religous differences, but more of the children in private religous schools contain students that aren't struggling in a inner city or have poor wealth to cause them to succumb to such violence for attention and dominance.

[@pedrogmarsilio1471]

Thunderf00t is being so humble. He is obviously "winning" since the very first topic and even so he keeps on being kind and listening. I must learn to be that respectful. Thank you for the video.

[@CaptFoster5]

Ray Comfort (religious zealot) --- I know because I believe no matter what! Thunderf00t (thinking scientist) --- I know there are things we do know, that we don't know, that we may never know, but strive to find out either way for sure, but even then, we'll never know for sure.

[@fishspoons]

This is an assertion, with no more basis than "Dog Poop is sentient, and gives off that horrid scent to preserve its own life."

[@LesPaul2006]

Dude, my labrador knows that is not right to steal food. And when I catch him trying to do that, he pretends he's doing something else, like looking for his bowl of water.

[@38Gaucho]

We actually can make sand out of rocks, we can deliberately grow blades of grass, we can breed cows, we can milk them, we certainly can make cheese and butter out of milk. No, we can't make those things out of nothing, but those things don't come out of nothing in the natural world either. I like thunderf00t's approach here. Not to say the Big Bang Theory is unequivocably true, but rather where energy and matter came from is an unknown, or at least the knowledge is incomplete at this time.

[@rossow88]

It doesn't matter how many times Ray Comfort is told he is making assumptions that are not sustained by fact, the next time you see him talk to another atheist he makes the same arguments.

[@tweekyseagull]

Whenever I see Ray Comfort contemplating something, I get the feeling that his head is just playing ice cream truck music.

[@Andulsi]

Difference between religious and atheist. Atheist knows he doesn't know. Religious use God to explain the as yet unknowable and so claim knowledge. Utterly unjustified

[@gmn545]

I've already watched it. I'm already aware that the Kalam's first premise is "whatever begins to exist has a cause." The problem is in the second premise: "the universe began to exist". This is NOT an established premise, for the aforementioned reasons. What part of it didn't you understand? The very physicists that Craig appeals to, to argue for it, openly admit that their theorem does NOT show the universe began to exist - only that it's expansion happened at a measurable time. Get it?

[@descent777]

+Moonlight Bateman lol, They even said it in the video. "Whats the point of life with no purpose? If you live without a purpose you might as well say goodbye." Something along those lines. You can give your life meaning and purpose, but there is no one purpose of life as far as we can tell. You are scared of this and turn to religion, I understand. The universe is a very confusing place, many don't want to figure it out because they think they already have. That's you. You ASSume. Have fun, but stfu and leave us alone.

[@aliasesquire1127]

The Thunderf00t says in his video comments, "Its amazing testament to the feedback mechanisms of the mind, that even after the foundations of his belief had been systematically and academically removed till none remained that he was still sure that there was two sides to the argument." I love it when people who can't even divide their thoughts into paragraphs attempt to "be intellectual." But, maybe there are two sides to the argument of using good grammar. Maybe I'm asking too much of purpose.

[@project1029]

Can you make a video talking about the booklet "The origin of life: Five Questions Worth Asking" ? That would be awesome to see!

[@woah-dude]

look at thunderf00t, sitting there, looking down and trying hard to look like he's listening, while internally burning because he knows the time he pretends listening is lost and gone forever, because he's listening to shit

[@MalawisLilleKanal]

The sound should be easy to fix. Get the soundtrack from the video, put it into audacity and use the noise removal effect. Then you can replace the sound and get excellent sound. Might even be possible to do with the youtube editor without having to reupload the video.

[@faolan1686]

"We can't make make butter" Ah yes Ray we can, cows can't.

[@Lambda_Ovine]

The problem with people like Ray Comfort is not their ignorance, it's their illusion of knowledge. "You don't know, I know."

[@cletusvandamme366]

Wow, Ray Comfort says saying "We Don't Know" is a cop-out, the immediately resorts to God. The worlds BIGGEST cop-out.

[@HylianHero69]

this is like the "i don't know, so aliens" meme lol. but now its like "science doesn't know for sure, so I know because god"

[@nicholaszelong6999]

My, my, the argument of unknown and nothing. If we had stopped learning because the answer is "God made it that way", "God done it", and the like we sure as hell would not have gotten as advanced in our society as we have gotten today. It's almost like saying "Ok we are comfortable so you can put a lid on your science for now, but we will get back with you when we need something from you." You can not say it is arrogant toward scientists who work their butts off to find out how and why things are the way they are.

[@brucecook502]

I find it very ironic that Ray comfort brought up the flat-earth subject, because it obviously appears that all of the Bible writers who said anything about the nature of the shape of the world believe the Earth was flat. In Job chapter 38, it talks about the creation, and late in the chapter it said that the Earth took shape like a clay under the seal, which is a flat circular object, and even a few verses later uses a potential metaphor to say God shakes his enemies off of the Earth's edges, which is 100% consistant with a flat Earth, and this exact thing as also mentioned in the book of Isaiah but I cannot remember the chapter at this moment, and so many other passages in the Bible, the Bible writers give descriptions that entirely reflect on ancient views of the nature of the Earth that we know now are wrong and even Ray Comfort himself does not take those things literally from the Bible. There's a good reason why the Greeks were so famous for getting the shape of the world correct, and that's because we have no evidence that any other culture on Earth had it right besides the Greeks in that time period including the culture that the Bible writers came from. Foundations, pillars, stationary Earth that cannot be moved, sun and the Moon being the same size, Stars being tiny objects that sometimes fall to the ground, a solid Dome known as the firmament existing just above the Earth(as if "above" a spherical earth makes sense), Jesus standing on a high mountain and seeing all of the kingdoms on Earth, and I can go on and on. So much for an all-knowing non lying non confusing God inspiring the Bible writers to say true things. It's just so funny how there is no context to say that these things were not meant to be taken literally, but Ray Comfort dismisses them as literal anyways for no good reason what accepts everything else that he was brought up to believe about scientific discoveries that the Bible writers did not get wrong as literal or things that we just do not know yet or possibly cannot know, and still concludes that the biblical God is the best explanation for How the Universe got here.

[@carolinafine8050]

You really think the Bible writers were concerned as to whether the earth was a sphere or a plane? Bruce, you need a family and a hobby

[@brucecook502]

@@carolinafine8050 the Bible writers only had one concept in mind, that was a flat Earth since a spherical Earth was not even an option and that is what the culture and most cultures for that matter believed back in the day that these were written, and you somehow missed my obvious point that I was trying to make, which was to demonstrate Ray comfort's idiocy for even bringing the subject up when the very people who wrote the things that he is passionate about, in fact endorsed a flat Earth. So why you even defending the writers of the Bible is beyond me.

[@eduardojreis]

I am just on the first episode and already I know that the approach of Ray Comfort is not among one of my favourites. I am wonder if there is any chance of a similar debate/talk with Jordan Peterson. I am sure that would be very appreciated for both types of audience. BTW, I do appreciate most of your videos besides having a different world view.

[@7891Kman]

I love how creationists say they know God is there and created us. You have no clue if it's true. Stop pretending like you're BFFs with an invisible wizard. You are not that special. Even if God does exist, which we have reason to think that other than justifying everything that exists around us. What makes you think Jesus was him? That he actually gives a shit about us or that any of the crap in the Bible is true. If you believe in God, you should say 'I think God exists because I don't know how everything could have existed.' Done, there is nothing to really argue about with that. Once you mention all the crap about the Bible, Jesus, and a relationship with God, it's over, you are screwed. You create this ridiculous argument that we have a direct relationship with God which we know we don't have and thus you lose the argument. Forget Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. the only way God fits into the picture is if it is a deist version of God or something similar to it. The rest is crap.