The Tomb Of Horrors!!!

[@JohnLee-cc4kx]

Love the, how would Darves solve this dungeon, excavate the thing down to the foundation!

[@DMRaptorJesus]

Loot the Body is an amazing band, you mentioned them before and I sought them out! I also like the band just named Gygax

[@theoldwarlock]

They're a lot of fun. Gygax has some great music as well! I found out about them when we mentioned Loot the Body way back when.

[@solomani5959]

I have a clear memory of one of my players PCs dying immediately at the first devil mouth - he was lobotomized. Another player, a monk, along with the rest of the party got caught in that tipping corridor trap with the fire/lava. My PCs were able to get out of it - except the monk. The other players were going to save him but he said “I’m good, I can make the save”. He failed and was incinerated (he had a really good save but I can’t recall why). Hilarious. 😂 They found the fake tomb but never found the true tomb. I ran the original in the 80s as well as the 5e version with my kids more recently.

[@jaedeng2428]

Great video! Tomb of Horrors is definitely top 3 most iconic modules. During the Origins Convention in ‘75, the players were split into parties of 15 each DM’d by either Gary Gygax, Ernie Gygax, Dave Arneson, or Brian Blume. The players had 2 hours to explore the dungeon before the scoring began. At the last minute Gary asked Dave if he could make some sketches for the tournament. Tracy Lesch ended up doing the sketches. This was pretty revolutionary for the time, because this was the first time art depicted scenes from the dungeon. Artwork showing characters and monsters in the dungeon just didn’t exist before that legendary tournament.

[@theoldwarlock]

Didn't know it was those four who ran it at the '75 Origins. Thanks for filling in some blanks!

[@jaedeng2428]

@@theoldwarlock I’ve been reading “Art and Arcana” which goes into the history of D&D and is full of amazing art. I can’t recommend it enough.

[@canaryinacoalmine1759]

I love the tomb of horrors. I always run it with my groups, usually with the promise of rewards in our main game. With my new group I'm planning on running it with a time limit to simulate the original tournament experience. The best Tomb of Horrors moment I've had was when a friend of mine made it to the final room as a level 1 character with 3 in all stats and 1 hit point, through sheer ingenuity (and using the other PCs as meat shields).

[@theoldwarlock]

Using others as meat shields qualifies as ingenuity in my book.

[@tombraider862]

Tomb of horrors, great topic. Good coverage and a song to go with it. Some great extra info in the comments. I think this is one of my favorite videos. Looking forward to the Kickstarter.

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, Jeff!

[@mrbuzzdisc]

Hey Jim my friend. I have a question that's been swirling in my mind for some time now. Have you considered sharing your DnD campaigns via youtube? I would totally enjoy watching this and re-watching it.

[@karatachi69]

I've been hoping for this too. Been hunting for really old videos of people playing 1st Edition AD&D, and it's like a unicorn. So hard to find anything out there.

[@theoldwarlock]

To be honest, we did some figuring and it would be a lot of work. Maybe at some point.

[@deadlyDM]

I've had many great sessions running TOH. One of my favorite modules from Gary! Also this video didn't show up in my feed until today...2 days after it posted. Let me remind everyone that if you want to be notified immediately go to the bell icon and click on ALL. It is set to personalized by default. Can't be missing an Old Warlock post!

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, DDM!

[@Wraithing]

Your (regular campaign) characters are staying the night at a roadside inn on their way to their next goal. At a table in one corner of the common room sits an old man with a gameboard and carved counters. As each character chooses their playing piece the old man flips a two hour sand timer, the inn shimmers and disappears from around them. Hand them one of the pregens and begin the adventure in front of the mound… Do it in the two hours, decide if there are any stakes for the regular PCs (playing the game in the game). ToH can be an interesting Jumanji style sidequest/break from your regular campaign.

[@raff3486]

Jim's face of "What the hell is Alex doing" never gets not funny 😂

[@theoldwarlock]

It's had a lot of practice.

[@swordsnstones]

anudder great vid guys ty Keep 'em Rollin"

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks!

[@StevenRowell-x7k]

As a 12 year old when I first heard of this Dungeon, I was terrified by it. Played it at 14 and lost my favorite magic user but my paladin made it all the way through on a 2nd attempt! We bought the "green" version that was published in 1981 (the month it came out) with Acererak on the cover, drawn by Jeff Dee, whom I met that year at a D&D convention in Houston. I paid a month's allowance to get a custom Dee drawing of the aforementioned paladin shattering a skeleton into a million fragments.

[@theoldwarlock]

How cool is that? Do you still have the drawing?

[@davemills7717]

Great episode, did someone twist one up before recording?

[@retrodmray]

Great video... and, a new Kickstarter coming!! Yes!

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, RDMR!

[@chrisholmes436]

Another fun and fair review. I don't think I would last too long in the Tomb but I'd like to try. I recommend Tomb of the Science Wizard if you want something similar but less deadly.

[@theoldwarlock]

Thanks, Chris. I'll check out Tomb of the Science Wizard as well.

[@Mikethemerciless11]

Ahhhhhh....the Tomb of Horrors. One of our table's great nemeses. I have a love/hate relationship with this module. We played the 1E version and we then played an updated one for 2E, and then for 3E. We beat it each time, but not without losses. My character survived it all three times, but that's because this is the module that forced me, playing a Nymph Mage, to rethink how I played my character, tactically. If you play a Mage, and you're playing it without additional benefits from house rules and such, you have to understand you are not a warrior. That's absolutely vital to understand how to play a Mage, unless you're a multi-class Mage which has warrior characteristics. Because you cannot be in melee combat, and you have to take cover. You have to prioritize your own safety and security over others, and doing this will make your character seem cowardly, but, in reality, you're trying to stay alive. You could be 7th or 8th Level, and a goblin can hurt you, severely. One other thing this module forced me to do was to always find non-magical solutions to problems whenever possible. Always, always, always try not to use a spell if you don't have to, even if you have a spell on a scroll, or wand, or something. Save that for when you really need it. That being said, I believe it was this module that introduced our most loathed monster to fight: The Bodak. I don't remember it being in the 1st Edition version, but it was in the 2nd Edition version, and it wasn't featured in the 3rd Edition version (I think they replaced it with something as nasty, like a Beholder). If you don't know what a Bodak is, look it up. It's an Undead monster with a gaze attack that, if you fail your save versus Death (I believe), your character dies on the spot, and could come back as a Bodak. It also carries a magical two-handed weapon, and can be tough to hit. My own attitude toward the Bodak has changed over the years, in that I used to think of it as a very cheap monster that Gygax developed in order to challenge high-level PCs, where it was difficult, but not impossible, to turn, and had a devastating attack. Today, I appreciate it as a challenge; if used properly, it can be quite the highlight of dungeon-delve. The Tomb of Horrors actually has a specific location in our long-running campaign world. Our DM has, over the years, adjusted it, rewrote how it works to some degree, and have created new features in there depending on what's going on. In our current age of our game, we've yet to venture there, because of where it's located, that it requires us to go into the Great Labyrinth, so it requires an expedition to get there, which is, perhaps, good for us. After all, it's a competition module, and having a couple of advantages going in is always a help.

[@theoldwarlock]

Loved this comment. We always like hearing other people's experiences with such things.

[@viciousrodent]

Honestly, as bad as the reputation is, I think with very little modifications, tomb can be completed with a level 1 party. There's very little fighting, and almost all the traps and hazards can be dealt with without using anything on your character sheet. There are some things I've modified about it when I've run it, but, not very much. Usually the groups that end up hating it are the ones who either think too much with their character sheet, or just want to hack-and-slash through dungeons, but the groups that are more prone to lateral thinking and creative solutions tend not to have much to complain about from it really? Especially if you modify some of the more "unfair" feeling things to be forshadowed/telegraphed a little better.

[@quantus5875]

A 1st level party can almost complete it. With perfect knowledge of the tomb (i.e. cheating) you can avoid every single monster and every trap. So, the problem comes down to defeating Acererak. This can either be done if you know exactly how by 1) a single 18th-level Magic user, or 2) The combo of a fighter-type and a 3rd-level Majic-User, or 3) The combo of a fighter-type and a 7th level cleric. This also assumes that you have certain magic items. Also, theoretically it could be completed by two 1st level characters if they have a wand/staff/etc that lets you cast either a specific 2nd level MU spell or a specific 4th level cleric spell. I've seen a few groups complete it -- but in every case I've seen it done you had an easy GM -- that gave plenty of hints (especially in the final combat with Acererak) -- in favor of the party. Are you sure you want to do that? Stomp/stomp, etc. Never seen a party survive with an impartial DM or one out to get you (which shouldn't be the case). I've never completed it. Played unfortunately against two DMs out to get the party. I once DMed it and caught a cheater. Noticed some unusual choices -- so I changed one aspect of the dungeon (and the way the character reacted to that change (he became super flustered when what he tried didn't work --- hmm... 😆) -- made it obvious that he had read the dungeon beforehand. That's why IMO -- it is irrelevant to say you have completed the Tomb -- when the answer is too easily available. That being said I still love this dungeon!! Still can't think of a dungeon that is pretty much all puzzles and traps, with almost zero monsters. It is a definite masterpiece!!

[@viciousrodent]

@@quantus5875 Oh, yeah. I don't think I've had any group make it all the way through to the last room on the first attempt -- though I have had some of the players' characters survive it, by needing to go back in a few times but managing not to die in the process. [Did suffer some other consequences... but they didn't die] The parties that have tried to fight Acererac have pretty much all either wiped, or fled, though. I don't think I've had a group actually "win" in that sense; though a few have [with several attempts and some backup characters] managed to at least loot the place pretty thoroughly and escape.

[@karatachi69]

My wife completed it with her OP character, just so she said she did it. When I ran it, I was as impartial as possible. To be fair, her character was so over Powered she should have retired her out years ago. Either way, it was nice to watch a player take the dungeon a room at a time, and go through it ALL. Very satisfying, after my own attempts as a player exploring the ToH ended in absolute catastrophe! LOL

[@quantus5875]

@@viciousrodent One way I've seen A DM let the player's win is to allow more ways for Acererak to be defeated. But that's just being lenient because the adventure is very explicit on how Acererak can be defeated (and honestly, it's extremely byzantine and random guesswork). Tomb itself isn't that bad -- it's that final unfair fight against Acererak. Yes -- you have a good point -- is the goal really to defeat Acererak -- or is looting the tomb a win? At least one recommendation - always use pre-gen to go through the tomb. 😃

[@quantus5875]

@@karatachi69 Was she a Magic User the only way of taking out Acererak with a single character is with a Magic User (and the method is ultra convoluted). Can't be done by a single player unless it's a magic user (unless the encounter was run incorrectly) Doesn't matter how overpowered a character is that final fight is make an incorrect move and perish (no save).

[@CaptCook999]

Way back when I believe that our DM tried to run us through the TOH. I believe what happened is that we found the "False Tomb" and thinking that we had finished the encounter/dungeon, we left. Many years later I got to read the module and I'm thinking to myself, that seems awfully familiar right down to the magic items that were found. The DM never did say anything and he moved soon after so I guess I'll never know.

[@theoldwarlock]

Interesting and pretty cool that the DM never let on.

[@CaptCook999]

@@theoldwarlock for the tournament, it does state that if the players find the false tomb and complete it, to not let them know and let them think that they have completed the module. That's the way of the tournament! I'm actually glad that we didn't go through it because I don't believe that our group would have made it out alive.

[@roumonada]

0:56 Thank you for not mixing up tomb and tome. One of my pet peeves. Like mealy and melee. It’s not pronounced mealy.

[@karatachi69]

May-lay, right? I always hated certain words and their pronunciation because it kind of gets ingrained in my head as a kid. I still mix up Chocobo from classic Final Fantasy 7, as I called them "Chocolate-Bows!" For some dumb reason, or "Chobobos!" I mixed it up so often, my friends didn't realize I was trying to explain how to get a Golden Chocobo to them! 😂

[@quantus5875]

@@karatachi69 Yes, you're right. It has something to do with this word coming from a French word, but that's how you pronounce it.

[@JohnLee-cc4kx]

Fresco and fiasco is another classic

[@YorkshireMatt]

Loved reading Ready Player One (later made into a mediocre film) were the main character has to go into the tomb. Lucky he has the module. Also when I played it my character lost an arm the obvious way. Lesson learnt.

[@ricnog7468]

33 rooms? 33 Masonic degrees? 🤔🤔🤔🤔 I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens 👽👽👽

[@karatachi69]

Math checks out! 😂

[@theoldwarlock]

Hmmmm...

[@alexandrehenriques5958]

Have you ever played Dungeon Crawl Classics? I feel like you would love it...

[@theoldwarlock]

Jim has. It's a great system.

[@KabukiKid]

Yeah, this is a fun one, but you definitely can't downplay how deadly it is. lol I ran it for my group as a one-off and what I decided to do what have everyone pull out their most powerful character from retirement (we always retired our characters when they got high up in levels) and let them play through. Therefore, there wasn't REAL consequence to some of their favorite active characters. It wound up being great because everyone had fun revisiting some of their old favorite characters and the adventure was just fun. Deadly, but fun. lol My group never managed to find/kill the final BBEG. ;-)

[@theoldwarlock]

Agreed, I think the "test" approach is the best way to come at the module.

[@johnharrison2086]

Everyone needs to play and consequently die in this adventure at least once

[@theoldwarlock]

Agreed.

[@mikep6263]

This really is the thinking players adventure----Think you're good? Then step right up and lay your money down! Yes, it really should be viewed as a fun challenge and not the TPK monster it's been made out to be. If your character makes it all the way through, you win a burrito and a Coke!

[@theoldwarlock]

Exactly! A fun challenge, not an assault on your characters.

[@solomani5959]

0:12 you almost gave me a heart attack 😜

[@theoldwarlock]

Me as well.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

Our party rolled it, the problem is bad players couldn't complete the module. Roleplayers on another channel HATE the module, I believe it is because they have poor puzzle solving and combat skills.

[@karatachi69]

I feel for players that spent a looong time with their favorite high level PC only to get them utterly annihilated by some of the cruel traps in this Tomb! LOL I can only imagine some player from the 70s and 80s watched in Horror as their favorite wizard poked their head in a hole to touch an orb of annihilation!

[@quantus5875]

@@karatachi69 Or that trap where you lose all your hard-won magic items.

[@chrisperrien7055]

check, I don't get it. I wrote a post and the YTAI deletes it. IDK.

[@pccleric]

Modern 5th edition players hate this module.