The Tommy Zeigler Furniture Store Murders

[@pandoxvideos]

⬇SUPPORT PANDOX⬇ 💜PATREON - www.patreon.com/pandox_yt 🐦TWITTER - twitter.com/PandoxYT 📌REDDIT - www.reddit.com/r/pandox/

[@kathrynhendricks2264]

This is the pet case of the creator of the Trail went cold podcast- he did a ton of coverage of it and I never got why it wasn’t more well known. Thanks for the coverage!

[@pandoxvideos]

Robin Warder does great work! That’s where I first heard of this case!

[@WithoutRemorse12]

A couple of books were written on the case. Some local law students and lawyers have started a podcast covering the appeals process.

[@FretlessMayhem]

This case was on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries back in the day. I thought it was super well known because of that.

[@zachm.5161]

I live roughly fifteen minutes from his old store (it is a thrift store now) and drive past it on my way home from work every day. It's been almost forgotten by all of Winter Garden and is kind of a footnote in the town's history that never gets talked about. It has always fascinated me that such a small working class town could have had such a strange and unsolved crime, and I truly hope one day we truly know what transpired on Christmas Eve at 1010 Dillard St.

[@alexhatfield4448]

That's wild dude.

[@tired1923]

I don’t get why people can be denied dna testing, like what’s the point? if the prosecution was right it’ll just prove it again, but if an innocent man was wrongly convicted then it could save a life and a reputation… seems like a win-win situation to me.

[@mutegamingstuff9120]

I think money and time might be a legitimate concern but I am not educated on law or forensics enough to know how legitimate of a concern it would be.

[@girloninternet1188]

There have been multiple cases where death row inmates have tried/succeeded getting DNA testing of evidence that would not actually do anything to exonerate them. A lot of articles were written when DNA testing in Ledell Lee's case came back after his execution where they claimed an innocent man was executed. The DNA test showed another man's DNA on the murder weapon. What all of those articles fail to point out, however, is that that means absolutely nothing. The murder weapon was a tire thumper that Lee chose as a weapon of opportunity, and the DNA on it merely means that someone used the weapon for its intended purpose before he grabbed it and beat a woman to death with it. Rodney Reed is also attempting to get DNA testing done that absolutely will not exonerate him. In fact, he was linked to his crimes through DNA to begin with. And the evidence that he wants tested was handled by multiple people, including jurors in the years since the crime occurred.

[@tired1923]

@@girloninternet1188 all DNA evidence is only ever circumstantial. it should always be taken in the greater context of the crime. even if a positive/negative test would not exonerate someone, as it rarely every would, I still believe people have every right to have that test done. a DNA test might reveal nothing at all, it might only show the DNA of unrelated individuals like jurors, but it could also tie another suspect closer to the case and introduce reasonable doubt for the one found guilty. You don’t test when you’re sure of what you will find, you test when you don’t know and want to find out. Before _executing_ someone I really think it’s only fair to properly investigate all possibilities of their innocence. I’d rather a guilty man walks free because his case isn’t air tight than an innocent man be killed because we don’t allow him the chance to introduce reasonable doubt.

[@girloninternet1188]

@@tired1923 Here's the thing... you don't (and should not) have the presumption of innocence once you're convicted by a jury of your peers. Once you're convicted, you do not get to play the "reasonable doubt" card again. You have to actually show that there were errors in your trial or that additional evidence that wasn't available at the time has a strong likelihood of having produced a different verdict if it had been available at the time of the trial. If a DNA test won't actually show that, then it should not be allowed. It's fine if the test is of let's say sperm cells found inside the victim, but touch DNA on an item that could have been handled by literally anyone should not be allowed. It's a waste of time, money, and it's merely a dirty tactic that killers use to prolong their lives or attempt to gain their freedom by convincing people that the inconsequential DNA results actually constitute evidence of innocence.

[@WithoutRemorse12]

A prosecutors job is to protect the previous work and conviction rate of other prosecutors. DNA just means that victim may of potentially interacted with someone else hours and minutes before they were murdered. Look at how Adynan was freed but a lot of circumstantial evidence still points at him.

[@tavondfrancis9179]

The most criminally underrated KZbin Channel. Amazing quality and great research. Great job

[@pandoxvideos]

Thank you!

[@mishaj2647]

Criminally

[@colorman4490]

Another gem from this channel. BTW, the DNA results for Ziegler’s case are due out this summer (2023).

[@hooverkinz]

Following this

[@hasanaliakhmedov6826]

is it out yet? can't find anything past january this year

[@meadowsweet5507]

​@@hasanaliakhmedov6826An article from September says there was no DNA from any of his family members on the pants they tested.

[@hasanaliakhmedov6826]

@@meadowsweet5507 thank you

[@DEPORTER_SUPPORTER]

Any news now?

[@amodernalchemist432]

This *case* is so *crazy* and *complicated* that I had to watch it twice...

[@TF80s]

I'm glad I'm not the only one completely confused after watching this...l think I'll need to watch it about 5 more times.

[@katharrington1220]

I think part of the confusion comes from there being a separate guy named thomas who isn't tommy zeigler

[@DEPORTER_SUPPORTER]

Too many names

[@DEPORTER_SUPPORTER]

​@@TF80sikr

[@AgreeableComb]

I literally looked to see if anyone had uploaded about this case about a month ago no one seems to cover this case enough thank you for doing so

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for watching!

[@UniqueUserName123]

You must not have tried very hard since a simple KZbin search returns many results, multiple of which are years old. Please stop lying on the internet for attention, it’s pathetic

[@enki1597]

What's the point of the death sentence if you sit on death row for almost 5 decades?

[@DEPORTER_SUPPORTER]

Takes 25 to life to a whole new level.

[@realityshotgun]

Punishment needs to be certain, harsh, and swiftly carried out in order to be effective. Basically the opposite of how it works

[@deirdrejones5974]

In Japan they don’t even give you a warning, they just come get you one day and its curtains. They have appeals but they generally it moves swiftly.

[@Codename_Thumblesteen]

It's meant to torture people. Americans are obsessed with torture.

[@bobbynooo7297]

They pay executioners 250$ per execution. Would u kill someone who might be innocent for that much

[@Brice23]

Definitely sounds like a wild shootout inside that place … a scenario that turns out to be a chaotic mess of evidence and half truths that can be interpreted in various ways. If I were a juror I wouldn’t be entirely convinced that Ziegler is guilty.

[@detectivewiggles]

Yep, one of few cases where i still can't even guess at what happened

[@WithoutRemorse12]

Small-town jury against guy who was a known ally to local black community. Prosecution used rumors and innuendo s questioning his sexuality. A lot of the information came from the investigator who got most of information from the brother in law. The brother in law who supposedly threatened with being cut out of the parents will weeks before the deaths.

[@HeyLeFay]

Yeah, I'm definitely undecided as to whether or not Ziegler is innocent, but it sounds apparent that he was not given a fair trial and I don't know how someone could convict him beyond a reasonable doubt.

[@MothicMan]

this might be my favorite case, the biggest thing to me is the time people supposedly heard gunshots, and the time the clock got stuck on

[@KanyeTedTalk]

That’s so creepy, it seems like straight out of a movie. Or an old detective TV show like Matlock who solves it by finding out the clock stopped when it was shot and that solves the whole case lol

[@Lost_Delos]

The quality on his videos is insane, he deserves more subscribers.

[@pandoxvideos]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@andrewfortmusic]

Whoa. I haven’t really started the video yet, but I heard you say “Dillard” and I thought, “oh there must be another Dillard somewhere! Cool coincidence.” And then you said “Winter Garden”-gosh that gave me chills. I’m from there; I haven’t lived there in a long while, but it’s a lovely little place. I miss it. But I just wasn’t expecting my little town to appear in a documentary like this!

[@murryweimar4133]

Was waiting for another upload similar to the other multi murder cases you covered. Such a fantastic documentary and I can’t wait to see your channel BOOM

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@RuskiVodkaaaa]

this is a pretty famous case, used to think Zeigler was guilty however their are tons of inaccuracy and flaws in his conviction and I do believe he was innocent. The only 'evidence' they used against Zeigler is by word of mouth and rumors, both of which are incredibly unreliable... it's always tragic when this broken justice system destroys another persons entire life over something they did not do. I hope this case gets a retrail one day even if Zeigler passed away, atleast his name can be cleaned.

[@iceyduckbergalt]

Thanks for making this content Pandox, I really enjoy your content and you’ve gotten me into murder cases. You’ve been the reason I’m so invested into cases like these and im ever so grateful :D

[@pandoxvideos]

Thank you!

[@gerry1620]

His lawyer said he’d have to be a mastermind to pull this off. Well, he didn’t pull it off really he got caught.

[@WithoutRemorse12]

No, he got framed due to small-town mentality and prejudices. The investigating officer was getting his info from the brother in-law. Who weeks before the murder was threatened with being cut out of his parents will.

[@GodsThirdEye]

@@WithoutRemorse12 Explain his wife being executed from behind. He obviously tried to frame some black guys. The crime scene tells the truth.

[@ApathyBM]

Usually the more people involved in a crime the faster the stories fall apart. If Ziegler is innocent and this is a conspiracy by the other 3-4 people, then the testimonies of all the other parties that were interviewed would not have held up, especially considering he seems to have a really good attorney

[@WithoutRemorse12]

@@ApathyBM Not if law enforcement allowed people to make better statements to better fit with their narrative.

[@SecretSquaff]

@@ApathyBM They didn't. They recanted.

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

Kinda ridiculous that some judge can override the jury's life sentence to capital punishment. "Yes, I would like the state to spend considerably more for absolutely no reason, despite the 4% wrongful execution rate, thank you very much".

[@tuckvison]

Uhhh sorry how cheap do you think capital punishment is? A life sentence is nearly always much cheaper.

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

@@tuckvison ... that's literally what I said. The judge overrode it *TO* capital punishment, and I called it BS for a few reasons, including the fact that life sentences are cheaper. I'm not sure what your point is.

[@swifty705]

@@tuckvison bruh did you forget how to read?

[@NullVoidgone]

@Tuck Víson is Life really cheaper then death sentence?

[@illeagle9560]

The judge decides the sentence, the jury decides guilt or innocence

[@Sealdeam]

Even leaving aside all the convoluted and contradicting facts presented, wouldn't the apparent bias of the judge presiding the case be enough to at least grant him a re-trial?

[@Baelor-Breakspear]

Whoa I’m in winter garden Florida right now. I just parked the van and am watching this video and that’s one hell of a coincidence

[@TF80s]

You're in on it...

[@mattygee79]

Thank you for the great closed captions! Sometimes you want to put it on and it’s half gibberish. Appreciate it

[@KyleLyre13]

Thank you for bringing awareness to this case. I'm always grateful to see True Crime videos that cover cases where the video bring awareness to an ongoing circumstance, especially when it is so obvious things are being overlooked. The fact the judge *refused* to recuse himself is incredibly suspicious. His prior history history with Ziegler and his Lawyer, and exaggerated the severity of his punishment suggests retaliatory motive and throws the events of the trial as a whole into question. And things like that being publicized can have tangible impact on the case. Tl;dr: Godspeed Pandox.

[@spanishbutter8761]

Glad to see more people joining the ranks of the Patreon. Hype

[@pandoxvideos]

You set the trend!

[@jrw1913]

One of, if not THE, best channels on youtube

[@pandoxvideos]

That’s incredibly kind. Thank you!

[@SY-yz5dl]

Thanks for uploading. Best narration in the business.

[@CountZacula77]

Dude keep it up, you are an absolute class act. Amazing video quality

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@AllofJudea]

That judge was clearly corrupt.

[@loather8766]

The way theese videos start is kinda eerie. I dont know what it is about the VHS being popped in and the voice coming in. Just great work.

[@pandoxvideos]

Thank you!

[@katharrington1220]

nobody's talking about this but imagine being in prison for so long that zeigler is probably clueless about how the technology we have now works and is probably crazy interested in what the world is like

[@iangelone]

Christmas eve 1975. I and my family passed by the Zeigler store. What I saw. 4 car's in the parking lot pulled up to the front of the store. The lamp to the left of the door was on light's in the back was on sorry but i looked no deeper than that low hanging lamp. My husband Ken saw a truck pulled on the right side of the store and a dark skinned man walking on the sidewalk. we heared a very lowed boom like a very big fireworks then like someone lit part of a pack of fire crackers different sizes very rapped. The both of us thought that's what it was it sounded like it was coming from behind the store. Ken made a right turn on to Hy 50. Passing the back of the store i was looking for the fire work's that i never saw a van was pulled up at the back fence behind the store. Gun fire it had to be at least 5 different caliber gun's going off. We did call the police Dp. was told they did not need our info. 3 people on vacation at the motel room facing the store was told the same they saw a cop car sitting behind the store while the shot's were being fired. Funny if you had info that could clear Mr. Zeigler you never made it to court. Own our way home we saw lot's of cop cars at the store 3 of the car's were gone the one left was a blue green os same color as the one my uncle had and about the same year. The lamp was our proof that we were there in 1975 Christmas eve night. when Tommy's lawyer told me there were no lamp he pulled out the photo's of the store four pouf to me there was no lamp there. He sat back in his chair and said so there's the lamp. If you can say there is a man out their that can fire at least 5 gun's at one time then your the one that can vote him right in to that chair. Ther's a record of my statement on file with the court's as well as my husband Ken's. I am Linda Roach

[@rubberneckinc.8937]

Ugh....my brain. What the heck is going on with this one. Wow. Nice clip, well done. Also if anybody on death row wants a DNA test to get exonerated the state should give it to them because otherwise they're saying they'd rather just kill an innocent man than pay for a DNA test.

[@alexmason5521]

The thing is the state isn’t paying for it. Zeiglers lawyers are.

[@sherrydigiorgio3504]

If his attorneys felt he was so innocent, why didn't they pay for the DNA test?

[@colonelblars9126]

Zeigler got greedy. burning down his house with no consequences made him think he could off his wife and her parents and get away with it while getting paid in the process. quit while you're ahead

[@TF80s]

Same old story.

[@nardreviews5920]

I think there’s something to be said about the psyche of a killer in that. The way their mind operates must be impossible for us to fully understand

[@WithoutRemorse12]

The main investigator got most of his info from the brother in law. The brother in law was threatened with being cut out of the parents will weeks before the deaths.

[@ChauntelleARussell]

I disagree. There's no tangible Evidence. Only speculation

[@JK-gm6kk]

Bro, we get it. Pasting the same contrarian comment everywhere is just annoying af ​@@WithoutRemorse12

[@klaseronen7535]

I find it strange when someone says that they have arrived somewhere at 7:28 PM. Rather exact time. How often do you remember the exact time of doing something when nothing particularly significant should be expected to have happened?

[@MintyLime703]

Pretty often? Not that hard to keep time when you have places to be.

[@TF80s]

Yeah, l never get how precise people are with times..especially days, weeks, months or years after the events happen.

[@klaseronen7535]

@@TF80s Too precise in my opinion.

[@pugachevskobra5636]

I think they’re saying that most people use ballpark estimate when recalling the time an event took place. For example they might say “I arrived around 7:30 or so” when the actual time is 7:28, or 7:23, or 7:37 because it’s generally difficult to recall the exact time to the second so they just round up to the closest even number.

[@zi9958]

@@pugachevskobra5636 if I have to be somewhere, I constantly look at the clock . It wouldn't be hard to know the exact time I arrived.

[@uruloki2758]

Easily one of the most puzzling cases I've watched. How is this not more well known?

[@kateapple1]

8:32 the cops entered the apt for the first time… didn’t they just go in to get home boy to the hospital?? Maybe he opened the door and met them outside. They said they saw him sitting on the floor, shot and bleeding.. so were the bodies in another room-somewhere else? I just find it hard to understand that the cops went in, saw dude bleeding..and didn’t check the rest of the place? Didn’t wanna search for the perp? And then went back and were suddenly shocked by the scene?

[@GrumpyMeow-Meow]

I believe Ziegler wanted to get rid of his wife under the guise of a store robbery, and tried to set up the other men to take the rap.

[@BeggarsNight]

He just strikes me as a guy who isn’t too bright. There are too many people testifying to his strange behavior that day and beforehand to dismiss, along with others coming to police within 24 hours to report what they had experienced. It just sounds to me like he had a murder plan and botched several parts of it several times over but just kept running with it. His calls for dna testing likewise just seem like grasping for anything at all in hopes it’ll somehow save him, because there’s not really any test here that will definitively exonerate him or provide a major change in the facts. His attempt to bribe another inmate to take the fall is right in line with how the other men testified that he tried to use them in the furniture store. Brushing over that as somehow being the understandable act of a man who felt he had no options is absurd given all the rest.

[@breed4052]

I concur. The police are idiots and arrest and convict the wrong guy all the time. This isn’t one of them though, imho.

[@gerry1620]

Beggars Night. Nicely said!

[@uruloki2758]

Other than the life insurance detail (highly circumstancial) there's nothing unusual in his behaviour.

[@willo7734]

It’s always a good day when Pandox posts a new video.

[@Jay-n262]

This is crazy, what happened to beyond a reasonable doubt! This death sentence should be changed to life and reinvestigated. This is why some people disagree with capital punishment

[@jxn1056]

💯💯💯

[@jayceecee8651]

This is why I disagree with sole reliance on eye witness accounts/shoddy police work. Too many people have gone to jail over eye witness testimony and/or investigators with tunnel vision. I don't disagree with capital punishment, provided that the person executed, is actually guilty. There are no do overs if you are wrong.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@jayceecee8651 humans are naturally unreliable. Our memory doesn't give back facts, but interpretations that can change over time. And for factual crimes like murder there should be factual evidence.

[@LuvFearlessly]

Tbh the guilty get away all the time because of “beyond a reasonable doubt”

[@WithoutRemorse12]

The main investigator got his info from the brother in law. The brother in law was threatened with being written out of the parents will weeks before the death.

[@CuriousGeorgeFloyd]

I didn't know Dolph returned. This storyline is crazy! Loving the direction HHH is taking the company!!!

[@ianreggcat5437]

Someone tell me why this guy sounds like Wendigoon's little brother who lived in Ohio for a few years 😂 Great work definitely subbing

[@pandoxvideos]

Glad you found the channel!

[@ianreggcat5437]

@@pandoxvideos me too

[@jxn1056]

He does!! 😊

[@SilverHairedEnby]

Really well done vid! thanks for bringing a case like this to some greater attention it's a fascinating one

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for watching

[@mom4life513]

Yay another video. So crazy. Definitely need to reinvestigate

[@liambrown2776]

Your videos are amazing man keep at it anytime soon youll blow up! High quality ❤

[@pandoxvideos]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@constantinaurel]

Top tier like always

[@kman7680]

Great video man….seriously, this is through

[@balazsvarga1823]

No way he shot himself in the stomach as a mastermind. Or any sane person motivated by greed.

[@HighWindSailing]

Very confusing story not OP's fault just a messy ass crime.

[@pandoxvideos]

It was definitely a tangled web with a lot of players.

[@bartonstewart1134]

This guy has been on Death Row since 1975???

[@mr.sophistication3232]

Don’t you love how KZbin censors comments that argue in favor of the death penalty & against the cruelty of life imprisonment?

[@prohibitedbeatz]

just found this channel and I love it. keep up the great work!

[@pandoxvideos]

Glad you found the channel!

[@Jack-goff]

This is a tangled web to say the least

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

The description of before the event makes it sound like there was a 3rd party that commited the crime, or that Zeigler went through great lengths to create himself an alibi. Making sure that one of his guns is taken by an old "acquaintance", that the other two guys have their fingerprints on guns, that a shot hits the clock at the right time....

[@FretlessMayhem]

I kinda can’t believe Mr. Ziegler wasn’t granted a new trial based on the fact that his judge didn’t recuse himself.

[@ChauntelleARussell]

Recuse

[@tylerramos7633]

It seems pretty unlikely all those people would just lie to the investigators. Like why would they do that?

[@anathema2325]

Answers depend on the questions

[@WithoutRemorse12]

Coerced statements to help the prosecutors narrative in court. Tommy Zeigler was a known ally to the black community. One of the motives that came from rumor mill is that he was closeted and engaged in cruising. These rumor were treated like fact and no one ever came forward to confirm them.

[@uruloki2758]

Witnesses reports go both ways. The primary witnesses are dodgy as hell.

[@bobbynooo7297]

If you and your friend were to rob a store would y’all not come up with a story to tell. If someone tried to kill you, would you drive to Orlando instead of find a cop to tell. Or if you killed someone would you try to evade the city? I read this mans file while working at the prison I am employed at. This case makes no sense to me. But I do believe he might have just been a bad case of coincidence for him. Unfortunately for him he had to get life insurance at the wrong time. He is a wealthy man so I doubt money is something he is worried about. The only way he is guilty is if he was gay and wanted to end things with his wife without her taking half of everything. But why kill three other people?

[@Enjemnsnens]

This man is guilty as hell lmao

[@t0mies_b0dy]

I read that in my head with HeavenlyFather's voice when he said "this cat goofy as hell" im going to the boiler room of hell arent i 😂

[@spiffy6880]

Nah he’s not, even if he is he’s unjustly on death row

[@LuvFearlessly]

@@spiffy6880 how would that be unjust 😂

[@filler7149]

​@@LuvFearlessly Here in the uk there was a dude that was sentenced for a murder and received the death penalty, he then turned out to not have had a fair trial due to exculpetory evidence not being allowed or there not being enough evidence pointing toward him vs away from him or smthn like that and his family was awarded compensation for the state essentially murdering their son by negligence. Anyway DNA testing developed and it turns out he did it after all. Therefore he did the crime but was still wrongly sentenced to death

[@filler7149]

@crassgop no I dont think you understand: They locked him in there even though they didnt have enough evidence. Let me put this in an analogy. There is a guy in the town who 50 people say is a rapist and 50 people say he isnt. Both are equally reliable. I (ignoring 50 people) go and rape the the guy because eye for an eye. Would I be in the right if I found out he did it but in the wrong if I found out he didnt? Why would circumstances in the future effect the morality of a choice I made in the present without that knowledge

[@breed4052]

Thanks - enjoy your work. This is a pretty convoluted case. As much as I’m not a fan of cops or prosecutors or our broken judicial system as a whole- this does not strike me as a “they got the wrong guy” case. Dude appears to be guilty as they come.

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for watching!

[@ShadyPaperclips]

yep, the way him and his defense tried to muddy the waters with the convoluted conspiracy theory plot makes me believe he is 100% guilty

[@SayKyleNotCow]

Please do the Deltona Xbox murders. Wild story.

[@rolfanderson3925]

Underrated channel

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@rolfanderson3925]

@@pandoxvideos Thanks for the great videos. I always link them in group chats whenever you release them.

[@rolfanderson3925]

@@pandoxvideos Just curious, what do you personally make of Ziegler’s guilt?

[@phillip5505]

The only "doubt" was created by the police's assumption that Zeigler wouldn't do anything especially stupid in committing the crime. Being a stupid murderer doesn't make you less guilty lmao

[@WithoutRemorse12]

The main investigator got most of info from the brother in law. The brother in law was threatened with being cut out of the will weeks before the deaths.

[@bobfromdownunder]

You can see in the photo with the dog, when you said he was skinny I was expecting skinny but you can see his arms look strong, not big but he could snap yr neck.

[@user-di4cv4iv4q]

Did you get inspiration from Lemmino for your editing style, either way, it’s amazing.

[@pandoxvideos]

I don’t think I’m quite there ;)

[@thomasshelby2822]

loved the video ❤

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks!

[@1984-d3g]

Uploaded 3 minutes ago let’s goooo pandoxxxx

[@GreebleClown]

Did they ever figure out whose tooth that was? I’d say do dna testing on that, people don’t just loose teeth randomly.

[@iangelone]

So much evidence is missing in the case and so many of us never made it to court. You got to ask what is the State of Florid if trying to hide. The tooth with the DNA today can point to the owner of that tooth. I don't think that tooth will ever be tested.

[@koromahatrepia4922]

So solid az...as always mbro. 💯 Tuned n from Aotearoa New Zealand! 👍😝✌️

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for watching!

[@koromahatrepia4922]

@@pandoxvideos You r most welcome. Thank you for your consistent post brother! 🙏

[@jacobjonm0511]

It just does't make sense someone hard working with a good ongoing business suddenly decides to kill his wife and 4 others in the middle of his own shop and then nearly kill himself. It is more like rubbery went wrong with one of the rubbers got shot and the other two scaped to report the story and tell their own version.

[@extralettuce4353]

These videos are so good

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks!

[@Druchii]

Found you yesterday and watched all your vids! Perfect timing for you to upload a new one. Love your channel man 🖤

[@pandoxvideos]

Glad you’re here!

[@kristinebailey6554]

Having the customer come back for the tv, would have provided a "witness" for Ziegler.

[@ianprice3837]

This case is super similar to the Tardy furniture store murders, at least at a glance. Both hotly debated for being potential wrongful convictions, both multiple murders taking place in furniture stores, both convictions rely solely on "eye witness" testimony where the term "eye witness" must be used extremely liberally to be accurate...

[@geejbomba.6982]

HAppY 4/20 Pandox much love

[@mercymylord5139]

This is the 2nd true crime channel i watch today that had the real killer blaming their murders of a black man😢

[@derekfutrell4908]

Williams has always been super fishy to me, other guy too but Williams in particular. He couldn’t call the police? REALLY? Just shrugged his shoulders and walked away? Couldn’t call 911?? Could drive to a station? I also don’t believe the story about all of them being given guns, wtf sense does that make?

[@bewitch6864]

I found it odd that Tommy never told anyone about Ed Williams being with him. Plus, Tommy gets shot in the gut, but, instead of calling the operator (before 911) to get police/ambulance. He calls a party and instead of telling the person who answer that he was shot. He asked for his friend, the police chief and tells him. Never told anybody that came to his aid that he was driven to the store by Ed Williams? Must not have worried about Ed. Yet, never mentioned his name-it was Ed that came to the police hours later.

[@KylePrime_1986]

I couldn't vote to convict beyond a reasonable doubt personally. This case is a mess

[@RedGarnett-n2p]

I agree this is a one of the strangest ones ever I remember seeing this on unsolved mysteries in the early 90s or late 1980s maybe

[@vonnermusic5504]

I’m 40, and grew up in winter garden..still live here…my dad and his brothers went to school with Tommy and were friends with him. One of my uncles was very good friends with him. They got into a lot of trouble when they were kids. Including setting a trash can on fire at school. They’ve never doubted for a second that he did this.

[@vonnermusic5504]

Lakeview was the school they lit the fire at. It’s really weird to hear people apparently saying he was nice and well behaved or whatever because …my dad and his brothers do not remember that at all. Tommy and my uncle got in a lot of trouble together. But winter garden was such a small town, even up until the 2000s , it was so tiny, just a few stores, everyone knew everyone. But people got away with a lot. Especially if they were one of the more known families that owned a business.

[@brandoandthenewromantics5842]

Ziegler looks like the sketch of the Zodiac killer.

[@We_Are_All_Vultures]

It's that era

[@realtalk6195]

If he just wanted to collect life insurance then he wouldn't have had so many people killed in a public shop of all places, and he damn sure wouldn't have gotten shot in the stomach of all places.

[@coachmadprophet]

"Not now babe, Pandox just dropped"

[@georgesumner8190]

I would just like to say that Psychopathy is not a mental disorder, but rather a Neurotype.

[@lucyhallis9814]

I was 13 years old when this happened and I lived outside of Orlando. This was big news.

[@KanyeTedTalk]

It’s funny to hear Winter Garden or anywhere described as a “small town”. But I’m sure in the 70s it definitely was. I’m pretty sure Orlando was just open grasslands until Disney moved in.

[@lucyhallis9814]

@@KanyeTedTalk Disney had only been around about 4 years when this happened. Back then in a small town murders like this didn't happened and it was very shocking at the time.

[@Cheka__]

I was born in '84. I don't remember hearing about it.

[@andrewfortmusic]

@@KanyeTedTalk Winter Garden isn’t all that big, I’d say. I’m from there and it never seemed particularly large!

[@Vixxing21]

This is a real brainteaser BUT why did he have them fireing guns out the windows of his car if he didnt have something nefarious planned?

[@x_DEUS_VULT_x]

Ah, that's only if you believe their story that he actually had them do that. It's his word against theirs that this part of the story actually happened. It's a convenient way to explain why their finger prints are on the guns and why their hands had gunshot residue on them.

[@rico925]

This is crazy I’m going to have to watch this again

[@Sky2-n4g]

I really don’t know how you don’t have a million subs

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@b.abrackus6403]

Guilty as charged!!

[@benjaminmatheny6683]

You can also see how horrible our justice system was back in the day, as a Cop was allowed to offer rumors as evidence of wrongdoing. Now-a-days that would be hearsay evidence, and hence inadmissible.

[@HiguraGainishigi]

Yooo new video, hell yeah.

[@pandoxvideos]

Thanks for your support!

[@chreg89]

The gun used was a Colt and the caliber is .375 Magnum.

[@danielfreeman3229]

I think I’ve seen this on either unsolved mysteries or forensic files. Don’t remember which

[@Cheka__]

16:02 Couldn't find stock footage of a .38?

[@loretta_3843]

I don't see the man having an appointment to go pick up a TV choosing to return to rob the place. I think he was set up and perhaps Ziegler chose an African American customer on purpose (which would be beyond foul).

[@swagmaster-pj2su]

Pandox releasing banger after banger. 💥 It seems to me that Tommy is innocent, which I almost hope isn't the case because the idea of what he would have gone through that night and the decades after is fucking tragic. Watching the footage of him as such a frail looking elderly man under the opinion that he is innocent is truly heart wrenching. Regardless of whether he is innocent, though, the seeming ambiguity behind this case really is just yet another representation of how vile the death penalty is. If even one innocent person dies for a thousand guilty, then it isn't worth it. I truly hope that justice can be found here.

[@chiefbigtoe7260]

Nah fry him

[@pam190]

Wow I don’t know what to believe. I’m sure Ziegler is guilty though. Good video.

[@119Agent]

At 21:30, I know it is just stock footage but there are no tall buildings in Winter Garden.

[@uningenieromas]

This guy is guilty. I do not understand how he has survived the death row this long.

[@sookie4195]

Money.

[@adamivester9876]

He gave y'all the gun and said shoot out the window! Nah that ain't suspicious at all 😂

[@sarahsouder6316]

Damnnnn unsure. Want more info about his brother in law.

[@Swilla12]

Yea why would he just have one gun shot wound to the stomach?

[@samanthaerakovich2454]

My confusion is the show on ID did not say the first part of his employee being taken to shoot gun etc. The ID special shows him as innocent and after watching this amd rewinding to listen again I absolutely do not believe him and ashame on ID for not telling ALL the facts!!!!

[@luzsanabria2053]

What was the address where this happened?