The Toronto Raptors Backcourt IS A PROBLEM - The Awkward Fit of Fred VanVleet and Gary Trent Jr.

[@pensarebasketball]

What is the Raptors' biggest problem heading into the 2022-2023 Season? Let me know for our mailbag episode this weekend!

[@thisistheyear99]

Finding minutes for the young guys like Banton and Champagnie I think, which isn't a terrible problem to have, but would like to see them get minutes for their development. I still think they'll struggle a bit some nights with big centers, but with Achiuwa and Barnes getting stronger physically this off-season, might see improvements there. Koloko is still too thin obviously to match up against the bigger centers, but can see him being the solution in the future. Other than that, the problems you mention with our backcourt with VV and Gary, but hopefully we see a bit of improvement from Gary on protecting the rim this year. I think our bench will def be better, but might still need another shooter. Porter's a big add on that front, but could use another, unless Flynn shows up this year. Excited for the next season. I think we're going to see a lot of improvement from our core. They're putting in the work 💪🏼💪🏼

[@toppatop21]

The backup pg spot and having a guard (whether starting or off the bench) that consistently get to the net and the FT line

[@DESOUSAB]

Biggest issues all season last year: lack of a true centre and lack of bench production. Neither have been addressed in the offseason. So, how can fans expect this team to be better when they enter 22/23' with the same major holes in their roster?

[@iamdajanae2093]

What the bench is going to be and injury. Lots of potential but will they hit it and if OG will be available. When he is the starting 5 is one of the better in the league.

[@iamdajanae2093]

@@DESOUSAB they drafted Koloko and half the roster can play the 5. They added bench pieces/more shooting.

[@ranga.]

Bro. Drop more content. Loving learning basketball from you!

[@pensarebasketball]

lol these videos take time. I'll get more regular in September.

[@youtubewatcherforfun]

@@pensarebasketball the extra time shows. Quality is better than quantity. We are all just addicted so we want more lol

[@pensarebasketball]

@@youtubewatcherforfun appreciate you my guy, thanks for the support.

[@MrAgainstallodds78]

@@pensarebasketball You have a good thing going. If you keep grinding no matter what the channel will grow.

[@pensarebasketball]

@@MrAgainstallodds78 one can hope.

[@Waterboy22a32]

I feel like you didn't really talk about how clutch gary was this season for us. Idk maybe im wrong to assume this but i feel like as a modern day Sg Gary's pretty good especially at the young age of 23. You need to look at the year to year growth of a player aswell. -slightly better on offense -considerably better on defense from pervious year's -showed alot of growth in a short time with us Are we selling to early? (Hes 23) I want my shooting guard 2 shoot. I feel like he's randomness on offense sometimes is better when having to scheme against the raptors.he's also always super aggressive when given the ball. Which is something i don't consistently see out of the other's at time -pascal and Precious. He's a player that's ok with haveing the play in any circumstances.

[@pensarebasketball]

I think there's an upper limit on how far you go with certain player types when they're in a role that isn't optimal. Gary could start on a team with someone like LeBron if he could turn himself into a lights out catch and shoot guy. But in terms of being a creation cog on a team like this, I think he just looks for his offense way too much.

[@Waterboy22a32]

@@pensarebasketball yeah i kinda see what you mean

[@ruckiss1]

Both FVV and GTJ outperform their contract, both are top 10-15 at their position. I think we can all agree that FVV lacks burst and wiggle off the dribble and cannot get to the basket to save his life. But what are the alternatives? Tank to draft a guard? Because trading for one better than FVV will be next to impossible. Sure you can switch Scottie to PG, now imagine the spacing between Scottie, Pascal & Precious on the floor for 30mpg...76ers won that series because the raptors can't shoot, you remove either or both of FVV and GTJ and every team will just play 2-3 zone.

[@sighsolo]

76ers won that series because Fred was hobbled or out completely, Trent was sick or out, Scottie was stomped and out, OG was nursing injuries and Khem was injured/out PLUS they had no shooters off the bench. A healthy team with OPJ on the bench would have easily dispatched Philly last year

[@jameswelch1054]

We are on the same page with the points you made today. Fred's length, and lack of foot speed limit him. An example, in the playoffs against the 76ers. Embid, wins the game on the last shot. Fred, had to cover him, and because he is so short, with no wing span, Embid easily took the game winning shot over Fred's head, like it was an open shot. Fred, is not a PG. He is a SG. Playing him at PG, hurt the Raps. He is too slow lugging the ball up the court, allowing opponents, to always set their "D". Spicy, is a much better, and faster at taking the ball up court. Fred, is also not a good creator/playmaker, I would rather see the ball in Barnes hands, creating/involving on offense. Another VERY BIG concern, I have about Fred, is that he choose to rehab, his knees instead of surgery. I believe that was a BIG & COSTLY mistake. I made that same decision with my knees many years ago. My ortho. surgeon was Dr. Larry Coughlin, the Montreal Expos orthopedic surgeon, and good friends with Dr. Jobe, the inventor of the Tommy John surgery. Coughlin, explained the decision to me. I could rehab, not have the surgery, or the risks of surgery. I would be able to function okay, but not having the surgery would limit me physically. He said the surgical option, would bring me back to near 100% athletically, but there were also risks. He said for an athlete, who makes his living playing sports, surgery is often the only option. He said for someone who is not an athlete, rehab, is a legit option. Generally rehab for the knees, involves developing other smaller muscles to replace the job, that bigger muscles normally do. That works fine, for an office worker, but not an athlete. The smaller muscles that replace the bigger muscles, don't have the strength, or stamina, of the bigger muscles. As a result, an athlete will tire sooner. This will especially effect, a shooter, because you need to bend your legs at the knees to shoot. Fred, wants a big contract. We can debate if he is worth it, on the surface, but for me, the risk is so much greater, because he did not get knee surgery, and we could end up with a bad untradeable contract, instead of a trade asset. Trent Jr., is not a starter, but can be a decent bench player. His "D" will always be a liability, because he lacks lateral agility, and opponents, can easily blow by him. His poor shot selection, inability to drive, or pass, does not make him a great starter. GTJ, wants to be a starter, so he will not resign with the Raps, if demoted to his ideal spot, as a bench man. For these reasons, now is the time to trade both GTJ & Fred. I love OG, but his offense is limited because of his ball handling. Rather than seeing him as a 3rd option, I can see him being part of a 3rd option by committee. The 3rd option, being the player who is performing the best in that role, that game.

[@pensarebasketball]

Thanks as always for the feedback! That's a lot to chew on.

[@TruePersianPrince]

OG is only 24. He improves every year. I'm not concerned about him. He will be 2 and 3rd option this year. Gary I hope he comes off the bench. He is better suited there plus I just don't want to see Pascal/Scottie/OG play the 5 and get hurt. Fred was injured which limited his movements in the playoffs. He is a much better defender. I'm hoping for Fred more off ball and basically Scottie/OG/Pascal play PG

[@pensarebasketball]

@@TruePersianPrince He just turned 25, but yes, everything you're saying holds true.

[@jameswelch1054]

@@TruePersianPrince OG is a very good player. I love him, but he will never be a 2nd option. His ball skills are not good enough to be a 2nd. He is clearly behind Barnes, and Spicy. I have not heard anyone, other than you, think of him as a 2nd option. Age does not matter, it is about ball skills, and they just are not there at that level. He will be a 3rd option, when he is hot, but not when he runs cold, which is often. In terms of Fred, I was discussing problems based on his career, and wing span, not just over 1 series. If you remember the Boston playoff series, a couple of years ago, ... The Raps lost the 1st 2 games, because Boston was bombarding the Raps with 3 balls over Fred's head. To get back in the series, Nurse had to play Fred, in the paint, and have the bigs guard the perimeter. Also Fred's size was a big problem, in the first 2 series in 2019. He was a total liability, until he had more favorable match ups, in the last 2 series. The only thing I mentioned regarding his injury, is that he made a big mistake not getting surgery to correct, the injury.

[@jwelcomecert]

I don't know. There is a reason they call FVV "steady freddie". Many times watching the raptors a little before championship, he was the steadying factor slowing down and organizing the offense. At 6'0, definitely not perfect and has holes but as a facilitator of the offence and guarding the perimeter, it was pretty clear the difference he brings.

[@danielduncan6370]

Thank you! I’ve been saying this for a year now. I’m a die hard raps fan but ANY time I say anything negative about the Raps, everyone puts their blinders in and fanboys out. Could you imagine if we had a true point running this team? Or even pascal?

[@pensarebasketball]

We saw point Scottie in the playoffs and took 0-3 to 2-3. I say full time Scottie at point would be the fix.

[@toddstevens13]

@DanielDuncan Just shake your head, the "Matt" followers and the Fanboys just regurgitate what Matt and "The organization says. They want it both ways so anyone with intellect is already wrong to them. They love the tall/big/fast/wingspan guys and slurp that up, then in the next minute they are saying GTJ and FVV are untouchable, and when you call them on the opposites, they go ballistic on you. I do however love to get them going and they fall for it every time. Is that bad? LOL

[@markslessor8825]

I think you will see more Pascal and scottie at point this year.

[@WUDAT]

True point running the team? There are 2 different types of PG, neither way is bad. GSW has a scoring 2 scoring point guards than run their team (Curry, Poole - though Poole played more 2 in college but circumstances dictated he play point for them). They are more effective running the offense through Draymond at times because of his passing. It isn't that VanVleet isn't a true point guard. He does have a high IQ, good leadership qualities and is pretty much a coach on the floor. It is just he doesn't have the skillset to do the things required against upper tier teams with their starters on the floor. It isn't about injury. In his best stretch of the season the Raptors were around .500 and below. Once Siakam took the lead their record jumped. Raptors just need a starting caliber point guard and allow VanVleet to fit in off the bench like he did before.

[@toddstevens13]

@@WUDAT So are you equating FVV/GTJ, to be the equivalent of Curry/Poole? One set one it all, the other first round exit. We are that far away with those guys in your two PG/2Guard concept.

[@sneakygs]

Kudos for making thought provoking content. This was a good follow up to the Raptors Digest vid. I like reading comments here bcs you draw more viewers who tend to contribute good insights and substance worthy of discussion.

[@pensarebasketball]

Lol we weeded out the casuals by talking game film and analytics for 6 months. I think this is the best way to build a community and glad to know you're part of it.

[@dent5672]

Raptors digest is the fan boy in us, this guy is the analytical side in us 😆

[@J-jizzy_]

The raptors are changing the game by having 2 efficient shooting guards, and having Scottie + pascal be the primary playmakers.

[@pensarebasketball]

Did you say efficient?

[@J-jizzy_]

@@pensarebasketball I was thinking in terms of 3pt shooting. Yeah they are both 40% FG but if they let Scottie run point and make space… ITS A WRAP imo

[@WUDAT]

They don't have 2 shooting guards on their roster unless you count Champagne as a 2 primarily. Think he is more of a swingman. They have 1 guy whose position is a SG (Trent). Other guys could play that spot OG, Scottie, Siakam (in a really big lineup). Just because VanVleet's best asset on offense is shooting the 3 doesn't make him a 2 guard. He is a point guard a better backup than a starter mind you. You could argue he is a specialist and has to fit into a lineup somewhere.

[@J-jizzy_]

@@WUDAT no. The reason i called him a SG is because of his tendencies. He’s not a playmaker like any good pg; hes been a sg next to lowry and thats where he shined. PGs are changing into shot creators so it doesnt matter what you call fred, because he is no longer the primary ball handler… the primary ball handler will be pascal and scottie-thats my point.

[@WUDAT]

@@J-jizzy_ He may not be the playmaker Kyle was but that doesn't make him a 2. He doesn't score at 3 levels, can't play above the rim. So he doesn't have the skills to be one. So your only argument is really he is a specialist. The best comparison for VanVleet is JJ Barea, undersized guard who when he got hot could score. VanVleet as a backup did a good job playmaking. When he and Lowry played (bad backcourt anyway), Kyle often played off the ball as much as VanVleet. His lack of shot creation and playmaking are a result of playing against higher level competition for his skills. Hence being the backup suits him. He can do a bit of playmaking and the catch and shoot that he is effective at. Not to mention most backups have a specialty.

[@craigdines7604]

I appreciate you actually having clips that correspond for the most part to what you are talking about. I dislike when other channels just have random clips playing. It shows you put in the extra work!

[@pensarebasketball]

Thank you! We'll improve on this even more with coming videos I'm sure.

[@AndreInThe416]

Agreed with your assessment. Missing aspect is their contract status. Both are possibly up for extensions after this season. Do we really want to commit to either player at higher rates? Trent at around $20M is just too much given his production and limitations. Lots of similar SGs out there at cheaper rate.

[@pensarebasketball]

Yes I immediately regretted not bringing this up in the video. But longer videos tend to get penalized. I should probably do a fair market value video at some point.

[@WUDAT]

Many things to touch on where do we start, probably a few key points: Point Guards job on offense is to setup and initiate the offense (Understand flow of the game). Some do that by scoring themselves (Kyrie Irving) while others do that by creating for their teammates (J Kidd). At some junction based on what is happening the PG does need to score if the offense bogs down. Defensively it is to contain the dribble penetration at the point of attack. Fred VanVleet - he isn't Klay Thompson like or lite because he isn't a 2 guard. Just because someone's best asset is shooting doesn't make him a 2. The 2 is typically the most versatile player on the team on offense attacks the rim off the bounce or through slashes. Ideally plays above it. Needs the mid range and can step outside. The better 2s are with the 3, the most athletic players on the team. Klay obviously lost something after injuries. The problem for VanVleet isn't that he is playing out of position its what he is being asked to do. Defensively he does press the action but the same critic of Trent applies a lot more to VanVleet. He can't contain the dribble and gets caught on screens most of the time. Switching only happens when you can't get through a screen. While screens are to create mismatches and for smaller guys that means size. The truly elite smaller players use speed to overcome size except VanVleet doesn't possess foot speed or elite quickness. He is a good help defender as he has sound timing although he helps a little too much. GTJ - he like VanVleet is very handsy on defense. Teams complained last year about the Raptors slapping looking for the ball and fouling while doing it. It is debatable for being the worst defender amongst the starters. But I guess if you include help defense than one could lean that way. VanVleet not Trent has been more hurt by the lack of rim protection than . When you commit to aggressive play and you miss, you are caught out. That is what Makes OG a good defender, he gets most steals by being in the passing lane not reaching in looking for the ball. OG is sound on his positioning. Trent is more of a 2 than VanVleet. Needs to get to the rim easier (improved handles would help) but his midrange and 3pt shooting are effective. Now with all that said both possess something the Raptors need which is shooting. Philly exposed that badly in Game 6 of the playoffs. Overall as I said before VanVleet's problems are what he is being asked to do. He would benefit more by coming off the bench playing against similar skilled players. Trent just needs to continue his work to get better.

[@freshjellomusic5097]

I disagree that Fred and Gary are an awkward fit for the Raptors, I think they provide something different and sometimes that's valuable in itself. Also, there are the players that you have and the players you want, and when breaking down these guys they always get compared to the best players at their position and we confuse real teams for all-star teams. Fred's ability to keep playing hard when things are not going well, or make good decisions when he is exhausted. Many players start making mistakes when they are tired, like at the end of a playoff run in overtime, and Fred keeps his focus. Gary had 5 games over 30pts in a row which is pretty impressive; when you take a DeRozan record you are doing something right.

[@pensarebasketball]

food for thought.

[@JeromeDukes]

IMO I'd like to see the Raps run 4 bigs and 1 guard. Mostly because I'd like to see the Rap's best vision of positionless basketball on the court at all times. This would mean GTJ or FVV have to come off the bench with Precious playing the 5. If I could trade GTJ and FVV plus picks for KD I would. That would be a dream lineup, Barnes, Siakam, KD, OG, and Achiuwa, Koloko when's he ready. 100 % positionless.

[@pensarebasketball]

Guess worth asking. Is Scottie a big? Because sure, he's built like Dwight, but he's been running point guard longer than Pascal's been playing basketball.

[@JeromeDukes]

@@pensarebasketballYeah if we got KD it would be 1 Barnes, 2 and 3 Siakam and KD, 4 OG, 5 Achiuwa. I want to see Scottie run the point as much as possible, especially with the pick n roll.

[@Crocpoet123]

more excellent content Robert. You are rapidly becoming one of the best sources for raptors content on KZbin. Thanks for your efforts.

[@toddstevens13]

@James Baran At least for those of us who are not "Matt" hanger ons and Fanboys, and actually have intelligent takes, and know when things are not perfect. I do love getting the fanboys and Matti'ites all riled up, and it is so easy, lol.

[@NBAThrowback00]

You couldn't have put it all together any better than this. My feelings towards Gary as a player is exactly what you stated and it's the reason I keep saying he's better suited for a 6th man role.

[@TruePersianPrince]

Yup. He always go for contested shots which pisses me off

[@pensarebasketball]

Appreciate you! Dope handle name!

[@pistolpete8273]

Fair assessment of their weaknesses and great discussion, but I feel like I just need to remind everyone that our offense would have been completely broken last year without their floor spacing. That said I'm really hoping to see more of Pascal and Scottie handling the ball this year, be nice to see GTJ/FVV play more off the ball and Scottie can be the natural distributor/walking mismatch that he is. The lack of competitive advantages you listed, specifically the mismatch creation and switch-ability are exactly why I've been hoping for FVV+GTJ instead of OG+GTJ as the potential package for KD. I love FVV and GTJ, don't think we need to dump them or anything but if you had KD, Pascal and Scottie who can all handle the ball/create, do you really need/want an undersized guard on the court for playmaking? Good stuff, looking forward to more quality content this coming season

[@pensarebasketball]

It's hard to say what could or couldn't have been last season because I could argue we were much better in the second half than the first, and Fred was probably a much bigger part of the team and its offense in part 1.

[@gangstercapitalism]

Def agree, a natural PG would avg more than 10 ast per game given the talent around him

[@geofflepper3207]

Last season only Chris Paul and James Harden managed over 10 apg. You seem to pretty casually say a "natural point guard" on a talented team should average over 10 apg when almost nobody in the NBA managed to do it and as well I strongly suspect that given his age that Paul won't do it again next year and I have my doubts about aging Harden as well being able to do it next year. By the way, VanVleet averaged higher apg then did Steph Curry who was on a talented championship team. Perhaps you should go on Golden State podcasts to complain that Steph is not a natural point guard and that Golden State needs to replace him with a real point guard.

[@youtubewatcherforfun]

My guy! The quality of these videos are so good. What is your basketball background?

[@pensarebasketball]

ex-writer for BR, played a bit, studied and watched the game I guess? Nothing serious.

[@youtubewatcherforfun]

@@pensarebasketball I think it's the ex BR writer that's showing. Good stuff man

[@shaolinrasta2289]

I'm loving these videos, man. Thank you for the quality content.

[@pensarebasketball]

My pleasure!

[@darinmbicknell]

True... but who do you get for FVV or GTJ?

[@bulldog1066]

Bro you are one of the most smartest bloggers for the Raptors I've been telling everybody about Fred Van vleet is not no good he doesn't play make all he's just a shooter he doesn't make anybody better and these blinded Raptors they don't see none of that I'm talking about the fans

[@pensarebasketball]

Appreciate you. Thank you.

[@bulldog1066]

@@pensarebasketball thank you broski I appreciate you for doing your best analysis all these other Raptors bloggers they don't speak the truth it's all a bunch of fictions and their fantasies we need more bloggers like you brother the ones that tell the truth I could tell that you know about the game you played it you're not only a fan you're also a critic and you see the game for what it is so I appreciate you brother I really do I put a like on every video that you've done cuz I really respect it so keep up the good work

[@mikegwn1015]

Backcourt is definitely not a problem. I think as Raptor fans we tend to focus on the negatives while completely ignoring all the positives. They do a lot of great things well and I'm telling you right now, teams aren't so narrow minded when it comes to positions. You don't need an elite backcourt to win in the NBA. Lakers were throwing out guards like Caruso, Rondo and KCP and they won a championship. Fred defends very well for his size. He defends 2's and 3's quite well too. As good as Jrue and Smart if you look at defensive FG% when Fred guards those positions. You can't take much of anything from the playoffs. Fred was clearly hurt and had been for months. Gary was sick for the first two games and yeah he was targeted at times but it was only because we had so many great defenders that were defending Harden very well. There is a reason that Gary and Fred were in all of our best lineups this year. Excited to see the improvements that Gary makes to his game this year. Our front office with decades of experience don't see our backcourt as a problem. Neither does our coach who played both of them over 35mpg.

[@pensarebasketball]

wow. No. He is NOT as good as Jrue and Smart. Come on man. Are you kidding? Have you watched Jrue Holiday play defense? I'm not gassing Fred to look like a clown here. But Jrue is an All-league defender. And he has been for over a decade. His contests, his post d, his on ball d is fantastic. If Fred were that good defensively, I'd live with every offensive shortcoming. But he's not on that level. Or Smart's level. So much of OFG% is misleading. Basketball isn't played one on one. Fred and Jrue have teams around them, and one of those teams has to collapse and help everytime a big switches on Fred. Not the case for Jrue. Also.. Raps fans are a lot of things. Overly critical of their own team isn't one of them.

[@mikegwn1015]

@@pensarebasketball You didn't read my post. Read it again. The 2's and 3's that Fred defends shoot similar percentages as to when Jrue and Smart cover them. Fred is an elite defender and in that category of defense as Jrue and Smart. Smart is more versatile and I'd take him over Fred defensively but you're heavily biased if you think Fred isn't an elite defender. I don't think you realize how this works. You need to provide evidence as to why Jrue is a much better defender than Fred. You haven't. Every defensive metric I can find paints Fred as an elite defender in the same class as Jrue. Fred got 41 ALL-NBA defense votes. Please provide evidence as to why Fred can't cover 2's and 3's and Jrue can. And offensively, before Jrue got to the Bucks his TS% was lower than that of Fred's. Jrue and Fred are comparable basketball players. If you don't like Fred, you don't like Jrue. As mentioned before, an elite front office and coaching staff don't see the same things you do. They seem to have no problem with Fred as their starting point guard.

[@pensarebasketball]

@@mikegwn1015 This is why stats should come with an instruction manual. Do you understand that Fred does not draw the same defensive assignments that those two do? You need to pay attention to who is guarding who, and what the team scheme is. Jrue and Smart ROUTINELY guard elite wings. When the hell have you ever seen Fred by the primary defender on Tatum or Doncic? No. Holding Jerami Grant to 42% and holding Luka Doncic to 42% aren't the same thing. You need context. The Raptors are also very help conscious. You have to factor that in. There's no way in hell you think Luka or Tatum or LeBron or any elite wing 1-on-1 against Fred is anything close to a fair matchup right?

[@mikegwn1015]

@@pensarebasketball Here are some statistics for you. Jrue - DBPM (0.3), DRAPTOR (1.2), Crafted DPM (82) Fred - DBPM (0.5), DRAPTOR (1.1), Crafted DPM (87) Fred has Jrue beat in some offensive metrics as well. They are very comparable. As far as Smart, he's an elite defender and I'd take him over Fred. But in terms of who the better player is, I'm sure you can agree that Fred is the better overall player.

[@mikegwn1015]

@@pensarebasketball Fred held Tatum to a lower defensive FG% than Jrue did this year. Do you honestly think that Jrue or Smart guarding elite, big wings are fair matchups? KD shot 65% against Jrue in the playoffs last year. I hate to tell you this but the Celtics and Bucks don't want Smart and Jrue guarding 6'10 elite scorers either. That's what their big wings are for. BBALL Index has an excellent breakdown of how good Fred is defensively. Matchup Difficulty: A Defensive Versatility: A- There are so many other categories in which Fred got an A and above in, including pickpocket rating, on ball and off ball defender. Fred is an excellent point guard who played a pivotal role in our championship and is loved by our front office and coaching staff who have decades of experience. You can't look at size, you need to look at results.

[@Iceeyyyyy1994]

would the suns trade Cam Johnson and a pick for Gary Trent? I think Trent is better but i'm afraid he walks in free agency. Cam is pretty good defensively, 12.5 ppg, shoots 42 percent 3pt, 60%efg in 26min he's also 6'8 and will 'Know his role' hes older but still young relatively ay 26yrsold. Maybe Gary makes suns more of a contender as well. What do you think ?

[@888kaddy]

I think Fred is extremely aware and Gary as well because It seems both have addressed these issues in their off-season activities. I think Fred will pick his spots and increase his efficiency. Gary seems to have been working on defence. Great signals for next season.

[@888kaddy]

On the contrary,. I think you are well researched and do very intelligent accurate videos. I totally agree with you about the shot menus some of the Raps have. Too many times options are gone because of ineffective passing and lack of awareness on the court.

[@pensarebasketball]

Thank you for saying that. I agree.

[@austinneveau9387]

I only wanna see other dudes bring up the ball. We have multiple faster and capable ball handlers on our team. This will give fred the opportunity to chill out on the ball so much. He just has to find his spots and hit his shots. He could benefit greatly off the ball.

[@pensarebasketball]

F-a-c-t-s.

[@bipolarawake]

Interesting that in Portuguese pensar means to think. Is that just a coincidence? Because your videos are the most thoughtful basketball videos I've ever seen!

[@pensarebasketball]

Pensare in Italian means the same thing :) and no, it's not.

[@thisistheyear99]

Another great vid. Best Raptors content one here, without a doubt. I see the team pretty much like you do. Definitely OG as the 3rd option. Definitely need to part with one of VV or Gary. I would part with Gary because of VV's leadership and dog mentality depending on how much he's looking for on an extension. Either way, as much as I don't dislike Gary and do think he will get better still, I don't think he's gonna be worth what he'll be asking for on his next contract. Gary likes the bling, he's gonna look for the dough and I'm sure a few teams are willing to overpay.

[@pensarebasketball]

Agreed on all fronts. This is def not about hating Fred or Gary. Just understanding that when there's one ball and 5 players, fit matters a lot.

[@robertbarnes2976]

How often did Fred bring the ball up the court when everyone could tell that he'd already decided that he was going to shoot? That's not leadership. I find it interesting how many Raptors fans love this guy but you never hear about other teams wanting to trade for him.

[@bobdole930]

You said your 3 were Spicy P, Scottie and OG. Playing 2k having Spicy P, Scottie and Boucher together is unbeatable, so similar. Too many mismatches and length everywhere haha. Nurse always adjusts the lineups to the matchups and we see different starting lineups but what about this one.. PG- Scottie SG - Pascal SF - OG PF - Boucher C - Precious

[@wethenorth416]

Your not wrong! Barnes, OG, Siakm...your completely right. Time to trade Trent and Freddie...it will be sad to see Freddie gone but the time is now to maximize what we can get. PG - Simmons (via trade) SG - Barnes SF - Anunoby PF - Siakm C - Achiuwa PG - Banton SG - Champagnie SF - Porter Jr PF - Young C - Boucher or Kaloko Doesn't matter about the rest, we winning some chips & dip as Drake said!!!!

[@clintonarigbe-osula7936]

We would have the best defense in the league by a mile, but probably the worst floor spacing in the league😂, and a severe lack of consistent reliable 3 pt shooting. If you watched game 6 of the Philly series, you’ll understand what I mean

[@wethenorth416]

@@clintonarigbe-osula7936 nah...we have some guys that can shot three's. Don't need 3's if we are stopping everyone and grabbing rebounds. Push down the floor and get a nice easy bucket! OG, Siakm, Achiuwa, Boucher, Porter Jr....looks like we have some guys that can shoot.

[@clintonarigbe-osula7936]

@@wethenorth416 again I would highly advise you to watch the 2nd half of game six vs philly, we ran a lineup composition similar to this and we got blown off the floor. There’s a big difference between being a shooter and being able to shoot, in today’s nba you have to have at least 3-4 guys that are above league average from three(which is about 36%) and at least 2-3 guys that can consistently at a decently high level create their own shot off the dribble and be effective in isolation. Precious at dis stage can’t do that, OG is a bad isolation scorer but is above league average from three on a lot of attempts, Scottie we have to wait and see but I think he can really reach high levels in both areas I mentioned, pascal has regressed from three and is a poor iso scorer analytically, Boucher can hit threes but ofc can’t create but he’s a big so it’s fine, Porter is strictly a catch and shoot guy but is the one elite three point shooter we have. Jus keep these things in mind

[@wethenorth416]

@@clintonarigbe-osula7936 I saw the game...the only thing I saw was that we need a big when playing against a big. Freddie was hurt Trent was sick Scottie was hurt so we only really had Siakm and some bench help. Besides that they actually gave up when the 76er's took a big lead, no gas in the gas tank. This happens when 2-3 starters are playing more minutes than everyone else in the league. This will not happen again. We trade for Simmons because he will not have to shoot, he can be the player maker he wants to be.

[@wethenorth416]

@@clintonarigbe-osula7936 we do actually have 4 guys at or above 36% and 2 above so that's 6 by my count. Simmons will be the facilitator!

[@shawncollins1025]

Good insight, creates some debates during the summer. I agree, with the iso scenarios with Fred, especially in short clock shouldn't have the ball. Very smart defender. Gary, pesky defender with steals and deflections. Does anyone stat deflection outcomes? I like his ability to shoot off the bounce, would I like to see more open shots. Catch& shoot, vs off the bounce especially short clock situations. Let's have patience, positionless basketball, Toronto really doesn't have a pg or a centre. The concerns and issues you've expressed, won't show til the playoffs where the game slows.

[@pensarebasketball]

fair points. They won't be spammed until the playoffs. But they show all the time against better teams.

[@shawncollins1025]

Especially playoff teams with size. Is Fred a better player with a centre, like with Ibaka and Gasol. And the lack of that right now, exposes him. Big difference between open floor and confined spaces, where size and speed matter. JAT!!

[@malod]

Thumbs up 👍🏾 this channel is refreshing..and I give you credit for addressing your Trent statement where most wouldn’t, says a lot.

[@pensarebasketball]

Trying to keep things balanced here, despite my clear Scottie fandom.

[@PainCausingSamurai]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't VanVleet play the most minutes per game in the NBA last season? I think if given the chance to rest and recover we can expect him to play better

[@pensarebasketball]

a fair hypothesis. But so much of his perceived success came from the minutes and touches. IF he plays 32mpg I don't think he makes the All Star team.

[@rickgnitecki3725]

No. Siakam led the NBA in minutes played per game.

[@rer6513]

Absolutely love the clips ur adding. Respect

[@pensarebasketball]

Thanks for noticing!

[@dnifti8188]

Well that changed my perspective on those two. Next time I’m in a “debate” w/ my wife, I wanna tag you in;) Only point I’ll debate is that having a smaller guy for onball D can be more of an advantage over height, but only if they are pesky disruptors w/ quick hands - and we got 2 of the best. But I totally agree that GTJ mated with an elite rim protector is the way to go. Bring him off the bench and start Scottie at PG, slide FVV to SG and Achiuwa at the 5. Bench go with Delano over Flynn to ensure GTJ is our smallest guy off the bench, then we’ll have 2 huge lineups with mismatches galore. Also like how your controversial takes are well thought out, but don’t turn into Stephen A Smith where he always tries to go against the grain. Been craving a Raps content creator with a more balanced perspective. Seems like you’ve hit the sweet spot. You just gained a sub.

[@TruePersianPrince]

I agree what you said about Gary. Gary needs to come off the bench so Pascal, OG and Scottie should be used way more!!!! Those 3 will always have mismatch.

[@pensarebasketball]

Facts

[@Zebollas91]

Killing it my guy but who would you keep between the 2 if you were to choose?

[@pensarebasketball]

Fred. Easily.

[@toppatop21]

Your among my fav Raps content providers and that's coming from a day 1 Raps fan. I've never been a big Fred fan at the point....I've always viewed him more as a 6th man on a chip team. I like my pgs to be able to create shots for others and be able to score at the net!!!

[@pensarebasketball]

Appreciate you! I think the days of Freddy bench mob are gone. He's outgrown it. We've outgrown it. And I guess we'll just have to hope he can accept playing more off the ball.

[@HalfAsianDerp]

This is a great take, I think we'll have to pivot away from Vanvleet eventually, he's older and shorter so there's less for him to work on. I did notice a lot of plays where Scottie positioned him well for a pass that never came. At least GTJ is younger, and since he's taller there is more possibility for him to continue improving. I think if we're looking way further into the future that we'll move away from players under 6'4 altogether.

[@DHARMYOGCOM]

Fred is a good player but not as consistent so he could improve on this. I think Kyle grew year after year and got better. So hopefully he will come up better and last year he played hurt. He was really good in the playoffs so he can be better.

[@kyedankurz2783]

I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that GTJ was coming off the bench as 6th man and Scottie was going to play more pg, with Freddy at the 2

[@pensarebasketball]

Haven't heard that at all. Going into a contract year, that would be a pretttttty big compromise.

[@markslessor8825]

Those are the thoughts being put out by many bloggers and youtubers

[@fillgaps1728]

A lot of people think GTJ should go to the bench. I would actually use FVV of bench to shoot threes and vs backup PG he is more skilled vs starter. He can be a very good combo off bench. That means getting a starting level PG maybe that is SB in a year or two wow. I would give this a chance this year as we are still development. Starting. SB, GTJ, OG, PS & PA. Bench FVV, Justin C, Otto, Thad, Chris B sometimes CK. Really other Guard issue is depths! We would run lots of hybrid lineups. SB starting PG fixes both of these.

[@sufyaankhan4686]

I’m a raptors fan and I’ve been asking for FVVs head or bench him

[@demar.9k]

that graphic @3:51 was killing me cause irving was a giant for no reason

[@pensarebasketball]

fun fact, due to a massive growth of his head, he's now 6'6

[@RaptorsGirl]

Question, would you trade for KD? And if yes, who would you offer up?

[@pensarebasketball]

Thanks for the question. I'd offer Pascal+Gary. TBH, I would keep Fred if we got KD. And I think Pascal/Scottie is a bit of a weird fit when KD is the third player. Much prefer Scottie/OG/Fred with KD.

[@rickgnitecki3725]

@@pensarebasketball lmao. There us no way in hell Raptors offer Siakam in any trade for KD. Siakam is reaching his prime, very switchable all 5 positions, great defender, led the NBA in minutes per game, and why would they deal him for a 34yo on the decline? You and the Nets can only dream about Siakam on the Nets.

[@maroonprince]

what raptorsdigest clip is he referring to? link?

[@pensarebasketball]

If you check our channel home page, it's the third video on the top. It's about an hour. You can't miss it.

[@menezesmarcelo]

We don't win the 2019 championship without Fred VanVleet. I'm still amazed how he guarded Steph in the finals. Those rainbow threes were cinematic.

[@sternxsaturn]

this ain’t 2019

[@davidobrien3897]

like your analysis on FVV and TRENT (but I like steals and deflections he does) - Neither FVV or Trent are by any means perfect, I am sure the team is trying to improve them and we need to see how they do this year. Unless Massai make trades to bring in taller ball handlers for FVV or replacement for GTJ we are stuck with who we have. With the contracts for both coming up I think they will not be with us for too long. I still like your analysis and learned a lot.

[@pensarebasketball]

That's balanced. Thanks! I do think Fred's a part of the future. For better or worse, there are leadership intangibles here that are worth considering.

[@davidobrien3897]

@@pensarebasketball Yes you need real leaders in a room - I've been in coaching many sports at high level (just not basketball) and what happens in the locker room (or the bench) can turn around a game with a few words from a leader

[@rommelwisco5485]

Hey, great content. I think you are a bit harsh with your criticism of Fred and Gary. Some good points, just a bit harsh. Maybe I overlook their flaws and limits. With that being said, instead of all the Kevin Durant and Raptors trade talk, is there a reality where the Nets would trade Ben Simmons for Fred VanVleet and Gary Trent Jr? Solves a lot of problems including where the Nets can trade Durant to/for (teams with designated rookie contracts).

[@pensarebasketball]

The Raptors pairing Barnes and Simmons would be funny. But if Barnes is a respectable shooter, and Simmons' head is right, Barnes, Simmons, OG and Siakam with Precious would be one of the scariest defensive teams in league history. And very funny to watch.

[@huguesofficial6747]

Your contents are so good! so delicious! I don't know if it's the picture, the lighting, the sound, your voice, the syntax, the theme, but I m loving it and looking forward for more. Great!

[@pensarebasketball]

Thank you so much! I was actually thinking of changing the mic!

[@Yessirhhh]

No a guards job in zone defence is to guide them to the center that’s it if you try to recover it’s over the back

[@troyknights3342]

I don’t think fvv should be the main pg. but his ability to play defense and hit extremely difficult threes is invaluable in the playoffs. Especially when the play breaks down. His shooting prctg fell because they over extended his offensive duties and playing time. He needs to play a larger version of his 2019 role as shooting guard.

[@pensarebasketball]

Hitting 29% on 3s for 4 months straight and having putrid playoff numbers doesn't evoke a ton of confidence.

[@troyknights3342]

@@pensarebasketball he was injured for half the season and played at an all star level when he was healthy. Before the knee injury he was statistically one of the most impactful players in the league.

[@TalentedTenth]

If you dont like both of them on the floor at the same time what is your ideal starting 5?

[@pensarebasketball]

Oh it's a wild one. PG- Scottie Barnes SG- Fred VanVleet SF- OG Anunoby PF- Otto Porter Jr. C- Pascal Siakam Porter's one of the best rebounders and shooters in this lineup, and a 91st percentile defender, not to mention a better shooter than Trent and perfectly content not shooting 20 times a game. I think this lineup will be BANANAS good whenever it is employed this season. Also wouldn't mind seeing Precious, Koloko, Boucher in Otto's place for different matchups.

[@TalentedTenth]

@@pensarebasketball Bold with he OPJ inclusion.... I cant say i hate it. In NN first year as head coach he really focused on playing the match up vs being married to a starting 5. maybe cuz he was new or because Kawhi then OG were out for long stretches so he had to improvise. I always felt that was the right idea for managing player expectations, especially when you have a deep roster. I think this years roster might require players to take one for the team and come off the bench. on another note....Koloko and Freddie look tight together in the Rico runs. I loved Kolokos game and think he will flourish on this squad.

[@markusagyeman3899]

who is better Powell or Trent?

[@pensarebasketball]

It's a wash defensively, Powell better offensively. Trent's much younger though and the gap isn't very large with Powell almost on the wrong side of 30 and making just as much.

[@huehue6948]

More often underrated... you can easily check the Vegas odds every year. They always beat Vegas except for 2021-22.

[@pensarebasketball]

true

[@Here4aLyfeTime]

Odd take but I would love the raptors to trade for Josh Richardson. Thoughts?

[@pensarebasketball]

As a bench piece? Yeah sure. To start? Maybe not.

[@zatara11]

Agree with you 100% on criticism and of how good OG and Scottie look..

[@pensarebasketball]

Appreciate the comment (and thank you for subscribing!)

[@KikoLatte]

I'm sorry but I was never a fan of Fred

[@pensarebasketball]

I genuinely preferred Delon Wright. Think Fred just had a lot more grit and dog in him, while Delon remains the more talented player.

[@sneakygs]

Do a video breakdown of your ideal bench. There are makings of bench mob on steroids with these pieces (at least with wingspans). I reminisce those days when half of Raps points would come off the bench.

[@pensarebasketball]

Great idea. Need to know who is starting first tho. Maybe around training camp?

[@sneakygs]

I think many fans are interested in getting to know new pieces of our team and viable strategies. For example, OPJ-Thad-Boucher sounds like a hydra monster in the works. Expand how GTJ’s gambling on the perimeter might be more suitable with this interior presence. Perhaps dig into crashing glass with this set while still defending fast break? OPJ = 3&D? Bonus bragging rights if you call out a strat even before Nurse adopts it. An awkwardly paired backcourt will show if indeed a liability. Maybe get on Will Lou’s pod, raise a stink and then have him ask Nurse during media access 😁 If we can establish lineups that can quickly address a disadvantage or initiate a look to throw opponents off, the momentum (and possessions) we try so hard for will come. I hope we can discover a consistent way for bench to contribute so that mileage we put on our ‘A’ team won’t turn them into walking wounded come playoff time.

[@damiendolce1081]

Fred has tools that all those tall guards dont have...his steal/blocks and deflections are elite as is his shooting. Gary is fine ...he is developing ever year....Norm wasnt the Norm we traded to the blazers till he developed. Especially the fact that his pops was a professional, you have expect he wants to and will improve. These guys are only getting better.

[@pensarebasketball]

You know elite shooters don't typically have career averages in the 40% FG range right? Shooting means at the rim, around the rim, mid range, 3 point, deep 3. Fred is a good to very good 3 point shooter. He is not great. Great shooters don't shoot 29% for 4 months in a row from 3. And I'll dare you to find a single stretch in Ray Allen, Steph Curry, Klay Thompsons career where they shot under 33% from 3 for 3 months much less 29% for 4 months.

[@loveisforever2000]

I kinda of dun like FVV’s game. He’s a very good role player, but not the 1st option player. The team will be better if he is a 15-and-8 player than a 20-and-6 player.

[@pensarebasketball]

Def not a first option.

[@WUDAT]

This team would be better if he comes off the bench rather than start. But it has been like that for 3 years going.

[@DanTe-zn7kj]

The problem could be NN to who wants a 3 pt shot as a first form of attack..live by the 3, die by the 3..Most great teams are balanced..(GSW/Curry was an exception).

[@kenrickjames3032]

I agree with most your points but Fred is stealing the ball from bigs In the post .

[@pensarebasketball]

I think I loosely addressed this with the comment about digs, but you're right. He's been really good at that. That said, this works better against scrubs than it will against good players in the playoffs. I don't think you can say what works against Mo Bamba and Enes Kanter works against Giannis and Embiid. As we so painfully found out.

[@kenrickjames3032]

@@pensarebasketball Fred in my opinion is a shooting guard and I think Pascal or scottie will bring up the ball more and Fred will be a Curry like shooter of the pass.

[@iamdajanae2093]

I can acknowledge his limitations but I do think people are overly critical of Fred. He’s gotten more comfortable as a starting PG every season. The raptors don’t fit into a conventional box. If you have 2 6’9 playmakers why would you not try an unconventional back court? And on top of that there aren’t a lot of “ideal” PG options that people are fawning over anyway. There were none in FA and they’re going to be hard to trade for. So people should strap in.

[@pensarebasketball]

He's only been the starting point guard for a single season so it's hard to map a linear progression trend with 1 year as a sample.

[@iamdajanae2093]

@@pensarebasketball I totally agree. I’m willing to give this core at least 1 or 2 more years especially considering the last 3 have been chaos.

[@neoreign]

Why's Gtj not at rico hines like every day? is he doing private run? I would need a big year from him.

[@pensarebasketball]

He's there. He missed the first day but he's been there for about 3 days now.

[@Realsteppa.0]

vanvleet, Precious all missed the 1st day

[@peterd.2963]

Excellent comments 👌 you are truly honest 👍 and especially ✅ right.

[@louissehighlights6783]

Awesome content. Hence, I subbed. 👏👏👏

[@pensarebasketball]

Thanks for subbing! Welcome aboard! New videos every time I upload lol.

[@konkim1285]

So I'll say this again... You argue that the analytics truly capture this that or the other thing and then argue later that it doesn't truly capture this that or the other thing. Which one is it?

[@pensarebasketball]

I didn't argue against the analytics. I argued that more data is needed. Analytics have blindspots. They hate turnovers but don't differentiate between bad and good turnovers. They love rebounds but most don't differentiate for contested vs. uncontested rebounds. They hate misses, but don't usually adjust for shot quality. So there are limits. And that's why watching games is important too. Analytics are ALSO important.

[@konkim1285]

@@pensarebasketball Got it. Like your stuff by the way. Just a suggestion... try to shorten your videos to less than 10 minutes.

[@mikekuo]

Thanks for your work. I enjoy the basketball talk and updates from you. As a fellow Scottie Barnes big fan, I need to send you that ninja Scottie Barnes t-shirt I designed in preparation to his come-up! We need more people wearing Scottie Barnes gear! :P Let me know if you're down.

[@pensarebasketball]

Please do! That would be dope! Send me an email on [e-mail]. Maybe I can wear it on one of these videos and give you a shout out!

[@mikekuo]

@@pensarebasketball That sounds awesome. I'll email you and let's talk about it.

[@mikekuo]

@@pensarebasketball Sent. Check to see if you got the email.

[@kurdishtankie6299]

Loving the videos!

[@leonloopz4006]

First person that I agree with 100% on the raptors flaws... Garys shot decisions are so horrible they aggravate me even when the shot drops....and I believe barnes renders Fred obsolete, id would be willing to package siakham with Gary for the Durant trade even tho im not a huge fan of his, his shot efficiency is exceptional...but yea...I don't know about Fred he might have up be second string with Barnes running the point.

[@pensarebasketball]

How do you like this lineup: Barnes Fred OG Durant Koloko/Precious I've been pushing the Durant for Siakam/Trent + 2 firsts train for a while. Nice to e-meet you!

[@leonloopz4006]

That's a beautiful line up....we should really get rid of siakham and gtjr...Fred could come off the bench I'm even liking Flynns game over Fred...glad you know what your talking about had to subscribe...bless up brother 🙏🏽

[@dariusg7044]

Shorter Klay Thompson is crazy 😂😭

[@pensarebasketball]

Lies detected tho?

[@noblevenom2858]

Actually a very accurate comparison lol

[@colinandrus2081]

Wrong. You are dead wrong. The past three years he has been running the team. Big adjustment Fvv is the man

[@pensarebasketball]

wow. Running the team? Ran them into the 4th overall pick a year ago. They ran better when he was injured half the time in the second half. And IIRC correctly, they were 2-1 in games he didn't finish in the playoffs and 0-3 with. If he's running, he needs to stop.

[@colinandrus2081]

@@pensarebasketball you obviously aren't a Raptors fan Agree to disagree

[@Tonka5x23]

Ya but with all the criticism he gets. He turns it on when he wants. We saw flashes in the Bubble and then when he came to the raptors he took a leap defensively. He’s 23. He’ll only get better. How many Guards don’t play defense at all?

[@pensarebasketball]

Wrong question to ask really. Because we don't trade for or draft dudes who don't play defense at all. Compare him to the players he's playing over on this roster.

[@Tonka5x23]

@@pensarebasketball True.. but when u say he’s the worst defender on the team is that really bad? Because everyone but Fred is taller and bigger than him so they all Should be better a defense than him. He’s taking it personal not making all defense so we’ll see what he does this year

[@pensarebasketball]

@@Tonka5x23 if height and defense had a positive correlation, it's hard to imagine how Enes Kanter is basically out of the league and 6'4 Marcus Smart just won DPOY. Just saying. Being 6'5 with a 6'9 wingspan is a great frame for a plus defender. He just has heavy feet, limited awareness, and bad habits.

[@Tonka5x23]

@@pensarebasketball Not saying height and size instantly means better defense but we only draft guys that play D like u said him being the worst defender isn’t bad. But you did have a great point about him playing with a rim protector like Gobert

[@richardtemple4557]

Womg actual commentary incredible

[@deleeranx6034]

Great basketball mind I totally agree on the take well done

[@pensarebasketball]

Much appreciated! Thank you

[@patlove2]

🤦🏿‍♂️Come on bro! Have you every watch a raptor game when Gary Trent is playing ? He's a nuisance on the D- end of the court.but you still get a "like👍"

[@amiller2121]

Great content! I will be really disappointed if we pay Fred 30 million per and would really love to move him for another guard. I had no idea about Gary though. He should probably be dealt too.

[@mattmacdonald271]

Subbed! Great content

[@pensarebasketball]

Appreciate the sub! Thank you!

[@gcanada3005]

You do get Kyle Lowry is 6ft tall right. Won a championship in Toronto.

[@hoalanho]

Totally agree on FFV. He is over rated... we should trade him while he is being over rated!

[@pensarebasketball]

Let's see what that next contract looks like first.

[@muradyboy934]

It's nice to see not all of our fan base is blind Fred doesn't fit with our squad his inefficient offense really hurts this team and him being 6ft tall gets exposed during the playoffs defensive end

[@truthteller1436]

Fred is the most overrated player on the team and one of the most overrated players in the league if Toronto had Barnes OG Durant Siakam Precious that’s a dynasty and no one would able to score on them and our score them all young and fast players around KD that are defenders

[@123mikey1000]

Thats exactly what I have been saying. Thank you.

[@pensarebasketball]

You're very welcome

[@Rab444]

Cade

[@pensarebasketball]

-0.5 win shares. New nickname.

[@Rab444]

@@pensarebasketball We swept your boring ass team😂 It’ll be so funny when we meet in the playoffs in 2 seasons. God please please please give us Toronto with their small ass backcourt. Cake. We swept y’all with rookies and second year players😂. Cade is better than everyone on your team.

[@dtobin9422]

Oh, by problem he meant actual problem problem, here I am waiting for the nice remarks hhaha

[@maximillianarturo3927]

Finally someone said it..I've been saying it forever..I'm not a fan of Freddy or Gary Trent..they 2 small and Freddy is way over protected, his good, he ain't great. Maybe I should say overrated. Anyway, give me Scottie B and OG back court any day, now that's is scary.

[@pensarebasketball]

Thank you. Comment after yours saying he's as good on d as Jrue and Marcus Smart, and some dude saying he's better than CP3 have me wondering wtf I'm doing here.

[@Bandicoot19]

We have one of the worst rim pressure back court in the league and it really isn’t close and the worst playmaking back court in the east it helps that they are a top 3 shooting one but somethings gotta give soon we aren’t winning a chip with these two in the backcourt

[@pensarebasketball]

Oh this is the point I def wish i could have included. And it's probably one of the biggest weaknesses of the way they play together. Neither puts the defense at a disadvantage when they get past their man (if they get past him and don't hoist a contested fadeaway instead)

[@darendaley8628]

Hey yall im I trippin, cause I swear vanvleet came into the league as a true point guard...... It feels like he showed skills of managing the offense well in the past......

[@pensarebasketball]

Being a good point guard in college isn't the same as being a great point guard in the league. He wasn't "the best point guard in the NCAA" or anything. He was very solidly above average. And they won a lot with him. But 10ppg, 4.5apg. His ENTIRE college career stats are worse than Scottie's freshman stats off the bench for FSU. So let's not act like he was Jason Kidd coming into the league.

[@darendaley8628]

@@pensarebasketball aye homie I was talking about in the league, like bench mob days..... my memory is kinda hazy on the Raptors during that time thought but I swear he was a true pg during that time

[@pensarebasketball]

@@darendaley8628 always had limited vision, limited paint finishing ability, limited creativity off the bounce. These issues are however compounded much more when you go up against the other team's best defenders on a nightly basis. He used to be a bit quicker when he was 23. A bit lighter. Now he's slower, more grind it out, pace the possessions. Not that he was a speed demon before but it was shocking to watch his summer league highlights.

[@lancescott9851]

Strong content. Subbed!

[@pensarebasketball]

Appreciate the sub up!

[@unstruck]

Yeah, too harsh. Most of the comparisons you made with Fred were not just hall-of-famers, but top 75 all-time. The younger guards you named were all top-5 picks. So if your criteria for whether he's a fit is "Is he top 75 all-time," then you're way off target. The dude was literally just an All-star and a few votes away from All-defense. He's, by definition, one of the best PGS in the league. The stale and ironic take that "he's not a pg, but and sg" is ludicrous in a league, and specifically this team, that is positionless. I won't even go into the Finals MVP vote in response to whether or not he would be valuable in a deep playoff run. I think you've vastly oversold the negatives, and vastly undersold the positives. We won't even touch on the intangibles like how much of a dog he is and his leadership, much less his obvious ability to manage the game. Fred's a stud, period. Your take on gary is more fair, but it's been done by others a lot already. All Gary really needs to do to improve on D is to work on getting his legs stronger, and focusing on positioning over gambling. If he is able to stay in front more often, his lack of rim protection won't be as pronounced because players won't be getting there. maybe he just needs to look at what success looks like on D - in other words, forcing an opponent to get off the ball because they can't get by rather than getting a deflection or steal. On offense, he's fine. His playmaking will improve with film and coaching, as will his shot-selection. I am also team #SixthMan with Gary, but mainly because I think that OG should fill that role so we can move Otto Porter Jr. into the starting line up at the 3 - a low-usage 3&D fifth option who isn't looking to prove himself in the league would be perfect and Trent would thrive playing against benches.

[@pensarebasketball]

The point of whether he's a point guard or not should perhaps for your sake be re-phrased as primary vs. secondary ball handler vs. cutter/shooter. I don't think he should be a primary OR secondary ball handler. I said point guard because I felt that would be easiest for others to understand. I haven't seen a true dissection of Gary's defense (and I don't think this was one tbh) but feel free to let me know in the response where this video is and I'd love to hear it.

[@unstruck]

@@pensarebasketball Lol! Now you're just hating on Fred. The dude has already proven himself as a primary ball handler AND secondary ball handler and has the hardware to prove it. That take is weeeeeak. Hopefully you aren't one of those KZbinrs who does the negative thing because you think it makes you sound cool. It doesn't. It makes you sound like you don't know what you are talking about. Fred's a killer and a winner AS a point guard, ball handler, shooter and defender. I'm also surprised that you missed the utility of his stature - that he gets under bigger guards and wings and just takes the ball from them, or makes it almost impossible for them to dribble freely. That's something bigger guards can't do. As far as Gary's defense is concerned, I'm surprised that you wouldn't have already done your research to what else is out there first before posting a video about it.

[@pensarebasketball]

@@unstruck you're a Fred fan. We get it. You have an opinion. Cool. There's no need to go down the hole of "agree with me or you're stupid".. because I don't vibe on those lines and these types of conversations are pretty useless.

[@pensarebasketball]

@@unstruck also, I asked you to tell me where to look. If you're telling me everything I said has been said, then please point to it. If you can't point to it, don't speak on it. Makes sense?

[@unstruck]

@@pensarebasketball Nope, that sounds a lot like you are asking me to do work you didn't bother to do.. And playing this little game of suggesting because I "won't" do your work for you, therefore "I can't" and shouldn't speak on it just sounds like butt hurt for me calling you out on your shitty take. Also, you think I point out how shit your take is because I'm a "Fred fan"? That's just dismissive considering the objective evidence of Fred's success These responses confirm what I suspected. You ARE one of those negative Nancies that thinks it makes you sound cool instead of giving decent analysis. You're just a hater who Googles stats to confirm your bias, fam. It's pretty obvious. I actually enjoy critical takes when they are legit and not the nonsense you put out here. I consume a vast amount of Raptors content here on KZbin and there are some pretty damn good chanels doing some amazing analysis, you should probably look up some of the folks who actually know basketball and aren't just doing it to monetize their KZbin channel like you. You know what, I changed my mind, I will point you in the right direction, maybe it will help you get past this shallow swill you're churning out. Try Samson Folk (talked about Gary's defense, Sean Woodley, Raptors Rapture, etc, they've all done this before and better. Maybe think about REALLY digging into the Raptors instead of spamming this hot take bullshit that's so overdone.

[@LelandReview]

Ya I think your right. Gary and Fred are good players in their own ways. But not a good fit for the Raptors going forward.

[@pensarebasketball]

yeah, I think there needs to be a role optimization intervention with these 2. They'd probably be fine in a different role, or on different lineups. Certainly a lot to like. But together, they do seem like they overlap a lot of weaknesses.

[@donovancooper9667]

Absolutely brilliant

[@pensarebasketball]

Thank you!

[@alwaysright6358]

Imagine trading FVV and GTJ for KD...

[@pensarebasketball]

And then you woke up lol

[@heyheykoolaid]

Bro this great content but one thing man, y'all gotta drink some water or somethin or work with your levels. I don't mean to make you self aware but, I hear a lot of 'mouth' sounds. don't take offense to this, as this is a great video, but Imma watch this again later if you feel me. Maybe it's just the headphones.

[@pensarebasketball]

Noted. Def holding that mic at a terrible angle for the mic being used without a pop filter.

[@heyheykoolaid]

@@pensarebasketball I appreciate you and eagerly wait more content

[@kattypan3293]

i do agree they are both a little overated, mainly because of their shooting percentages. they would be better playing offball with a superstar though, which hopefully scottie and pascal will become.

[@pensarebasketball]

Gary flashed a lot more catch and shoot potential last year. Hopefully they're molding him to be a rip hamilton lite.

[@Killerqueen2000]

pascal is the most overrated player on the raptors. fans baby him all the time. but, hes still improving rn so look forward to that

[@vanhoot2234]

good conversation piece as always. You know that you and I agree on basically this entire conversation. I do like how you broke it down. I would ask one thing. Is can mismatch generation (which is died to creation) come in the form of pass manipulation? In terms of Fred AND lowry in the post what made the raptors OK with switches onto him in the post at times was primarily because of their amazing hands and hand strength. *Edit* I think this is a really solid and also for those that call you haters.. FAIR video. I agree with OG being the third guy.

[@pensarebasketball]

pass manipulation is a part of creation. For sure. Also, where Fred and Kyle both have excellent hands digging into the post, Kyle is a much much better rebounder and post defender than Fred. And I'd say he always has been. Lowry: 7.8% TRB on his career, Fred, 6.1%, Trent Jr. 4.3%. For context, a larger rookie guard like Cade Cunningham last year was already at 9.2%

[@howardmann8689]

Fred's in you win. you will fall apart

[@alanramnanan]

Great points👍🏽

[@NanaAnaneII]

Gary needs to come off the bench. Start Achiuwa

[@bri12345ification]

GTJ is definitely the odd one out and not sure if this is a hot take or not but I think he should come off the bench this coming season because knowing the Raptors focus on defense I think in that aspect Precious should start at the 5 just so it balances the lineups more not having to bring two Cs off the bench, it's just my opinion

[@pensarebasketball]

totally fair points all around, just worry GTJ hasn't historically done super well off the bench, and there's no way the Raptors are benching an All Star.

[@bri12345ification]

@@pensarebasketball ya it's not an easy decision to make but I could see us keeping the same starting 5 if let's say Koloko doesn't get consistent mins (which I think he should) and instead those mins goes to Thad Young

[@canismajorbeats]

Great stuff

[@pensarebasketball]

Thank you!