The Tragedy of Stilgar | Dune Explained

[@ValaritasYT]

Sorry for the reuploads guys. KZbin blocked it for "reused content". I fixed it, I hope you enjoy!

[@ahmadfrhan5265]

Dune is about Islam vs whites , it has nothing to do with “ religion manipulation “ as many claim, Paul made his promise and took them to paradise and won against the imperialist whites , this is literally our world now and what is happening right now , it is Islam bs whites

[@GenJouh]

What is the soundtrack you've used? I've searched for it over and over.

[@ValaritasYT]

Jon Summer - Desert Winds

[@GenJouh]

@@ValaritasYT Thanks!!!!!

[@Legacy0901]

It really can't be understated how insidious the false promise of a messiah is to someone who has experienced great suffering. There is nothing more human than the desire for the hardship you have endured to have meaning

[@DefeatedRoyalist]

I really like how you worded this, friend :) I wonder if at the most basic level hardship and suffering serve as the ultimate catalyst for the individual to reflect, grow, then live a life that is better in communion with themselves, the people, and the natural world around them. This is better said than done as most who suffer can perish rather than experience/grow, and a better world that is available to them can still be a proto-dystopian nightmare. It’s a conundrum for sure. I suppose the only spiritual/secular “truth,” in this is that the human spirit/consciousness should be the primary priority for society (assuming basic amenities are met). I really can’t think of a counter argument against this. Curious if anyone has any thoughts on this topic :)

[@homerlol9058]

Well said!

[@RaZeyLWindBladE]

The problem with this is not the hardship you endure, it's that you want others to endure it as well. That's the basis of fanatism, to include others into our misery, to share it, to be able to say that I have suffered but so has others and that makes it meaningful. This kind of human nature is pervasive throughout, even right now. Think back on the games or events that you have experienced when you were younger and when you see young people now going through it, you can't help but say, "Now they know".

[@brianwill5929]

I grew up in a cult. The betrayal is brutal.

[@SenatePalpatinetroller]

It's not false messiah

[@TheDrexxus]

When Paul showed up reciting everyone's internet browser history to them, it completely overwhelmed them because he had no knowledge that no mortal could or should ever have. That scene is so powerful. If someone in real life could do the same thing and just "know" things, it would make absolutely anyone start to believe.

[@joeparrigen4982]

😂😂😂

[@Karackal]

I wouldn't, because "What is my browser history?" isn't a good oracle question. It can easily be deduced using some sleight of hand. Neither is "What will this world look like in 1000 years?" because there is no way to falsify any plausible sounding answer. Good oracle questions are questions that are hard to answer, but easy to verify. "What are the prime factors of 145906768007583323230186939349070635292401872375357164399581871019873438799005358938369571402670149802121818086292467422828157022922076746906543401224889672472407926969987100581290103199317858753663710862357656510507883714297115637342788911463535102712032765166518411726859837988672111837205085526346618740053?" would be such an example.

[@nvelsen1975]

"I know that blog you visited 3 weeks ago in a private tab" - Lisan Al Gaib

[@vit968]

I can't believe Paul just doxxed everyone #NotMyMahdi

[@aisir3725]

​@@Karackalany mentat could crack this

[@alextrebek5237]

To be fair, psychic humans who can see the future, past genetic memories AND survive a known poison only Reverend Mother can survive isn't something widely known and studied until later in the Dune series.

[@L33TNINJ4Grrl]

They GMO'd a human being, and the people of the desert who had never even known such a thing, called him "God".

[@nguyentandung42]

@@L33TNINJ4Grrl He is pretty close to god tho, the only reason Paul isn't god is because of his weak will, he denies the golden path and so his son will take that path in his stead.

[@bilbobagend8155]

​@nguyentandung42 Paul refused the Golden Path because of his human experiences. Those years of his life before his awakening with the water of life defined his personality. He refused to live in agony for thousands of years, sacrificing everything he could give and more to the continued survival of humanity only to be remembered as a monster and a tyrant by all of history. His son, being preborn like Alia, never got to experience a human childhood. His personality is taken from the memory of thousands of lifetimes, including the memories of Paul himself. He was willing to do what Paul could not, and even he came close at points to giving up.

[@tc-channelhobby4051]

@@nguyentandung42with how the story is going. Deniel it would seem has a plan to have him become the Kwisatz which would have some massive changes as with this change, Leto ii would possibly be free.

[@nguyentandung42]

@@tc-channelhobby4051 nah they are adapting prophet and children of dune, they probably won’t change the main plot point.

[@MitchellColley-e9p]

For me, Stilgar always been looking for the real Messiah, and he is the subtle but actual reason why Paul became Lisan al Gaib.

[@_Fulgur_]

wouldn't say he's the real messiah but if anything his blind belief legitimized paul's ascension to lisan al gaib

[@jukaa1012]

​@@_Fulgur_ nobody said it

[@magetaaaaaa]

It is interesting in the later books to see how he struggles with the changes happening around him. He is still of the old desert but the old desert is going away.

[@eliasgibson2878]

Paul isn't the Lisan al Gaib. There is no Lisan al Gaib, all Paul did was manipulate and use the Freman to his own ends

[@Xylulose]

Subtle? lol

[@Gpz0]

Stilgar is my favorite. He started as faithful but just trying to fight for his people, seeing Paul as a good fighter, Jessica as a reverend mother replacement and using religion to get the others to accept them. Even after Paul rode the largest grandfather worm, he still viewed Paul as a banner his people could unify under, acknowledging that Paul himself didn't believe. Only when Paul survived the water of life and read the minds of the other leaders did he become a zealot, knowing Paul already knew he desired a paradise for his people but choosing to believe Paul could see it regardless. The way Javier Bardem plays him was soo good.

[@MrBanana2000]

But is it really wrong? Arrakis does turn into a paradise in the end. So he didn’t get duped. Paul doesn’t promise eternal life.

[@Gpz0]

@@MrBanana2000 It's the Bene Gesserit that are in the wrong for making up the prophecy in the first place. They definitely couldn't see the future, only wanted to use it to enslave the Fremen to their cause. It was Paul's choice to help the Fremen, not the Bene Gesserit or their prophecy, because he cares about them.

[@lizzybennett2590]

The Fremen forgot the warning given to anyone before drinking the water of life: "If you drink you WILL DIE. If you drink you may see." Paul or Muad'dib died after drinking the water of life. The man they knew prior was dead.

[@BOBBOBBOBBOBBOBBOB69]

Depends how you view death, he changed.

[@lizzybennett2590]

@@BOBBOBBOBBOBBOBBOB69 I find the reverend Mother version of Jessica to be colder and more calculating than the pre-water of life Jessica. Again, her old self died after ingesting the water of life.

[@BOBBOBBOBBOBBOBBOB69]

@@lizzybennett2590 It is still Paul and Jessica, but they are changed. They are not abominations like Alia.

[@lizzybennett2590]

@@BOBBOBBOBBOBBOBBOB69 "When you take a life, you take your own". there are so many allusions to the fact that Paul has completely changed. The old Paul is dead, I can't be convinced otherwise. "We're Harkonnens, so that's how we'll survive, by being Harkonnens now."

[@jonathanwalther]

A very good point and metaphor.

[@TheAndroidNextDoor]

The genius of Bardem's portrayal of Stilgar is the same religious fanaticism that's played for laughs in the first half of the film becomes terrifying in the second half. Stilgar's faith doesn't really change. He never wavers in it and is always looking for a reason to believe because, as he says, "I don't care what you believe! I believe!" For me, that's probably the scariest line of the film. A man who maintains his faith throughout the entire story and, in the end, has it completely rewarded. In another story, Stilgar's might have been seen by the audience as a happy ending yet in Dune we see it with nothing but dread and sadness. All Stilgar was as a Freman got devoured by the religion of the Lisan Al-Gaib. And perhaps the most frightening thing of all with Stilgar is that, especially now, you can find him everywhere. People who have given into blind faith and devotion to a cause or creed or religion or ideology. People who stopped being people the moment the ideology took over them and possessed them like a demon. The scary thing with Stilgar is that people like him aren't just confined to the walls of a church anymore but can be found everywhere. At every political rally, at every protest, on every news program, and in every comments section. And the worst part is that, like Stilgar, they often don't even realize what's happened to them and what they've lost.

[@TheLostPrimarch2nd]

So true. People think blind faith can only be applied to religion, but blind faith, blind obedience, is the birth of terrible things, very terrible things. When you hold no doubt, no hesitation, well, you get the Nazis, the Communists, the terrorists and fundamentalists. Sometime you must act without hesitation or doubt, but if you don't question things, you'd don't truly believe, because you are too afraid to challenge tose ideas. I think people tend to forget Dune's warning is not against religion itself, but against blind faith in false prophets. Funny, because the Bible itself says the same thing, beware fo fade prophets.

[@abrahamissac5938]

@@TheLostPrimarch2ndI like your mind, i thank ye…for now i shall as well refer Blind Faith is a “universal applicable” to All Things.

[@TheLostPrimarch2nd]

@@abrahamissac5938 Why, than kyou.

[@nvelsen1975]

@@TheLostPrimarch2nd Personally I define extremism as whenever 'the ends justify the means' becomes a valid argument in an of itself. Which applies to a lot of groups these days. That's probably because I grew up in a cult-like church. We were the 'real believers', we had it right. My excommunication came when our community was rocked by a gang-rape and a case of child abuse, which I wanted to blow wide open. In my youthful righteousness I didn't realise that to the elder and his clan, the ends justified the means: If we as a group were right, the group must be protected. If banishing two victims and defending five perpetrators protects the group, that's what he had to do 'for god'. So this came to a head, I foreswore him and expected the people to back me, because after all I was on the right side and I was the young prodigy supposed to become the next elder, so surely before god all would choose rightly? Instead I was basically excommunicated because the end justifies the means. I kept that oath for over a decade involving some pretty awkward scenes of talking around him while he was in the room because well, if you swore before God that's he's dead to you, you can't acknowledge his existance. Kept it until the elder himself went to prison for preying on his own kids. That's when I celebrated his incarceration and acknowledged the unfortunate reality of his existane. I've also been on the other side of that, sadly. As part of my escape from the life I signed up to a pretty amazing military contract that came along through sheer coincidence. During one deployment, the Taliban wanted to get at an ANP commander. So they slow-hanged his 12 year old son in front of his mother. Rarely have I felt such hatred around me, the entire camp was fired up. Even the civilian physical therapist would've taken his sidearm and go out the gate to hunt some insurgents if only they'd let him. I myself was planning way unnecessary missions, inventing excuses to get into hot zones and hopefully come to blows with the guys who did it. I ended up getting us into an ambush that could've easily ended my guys if insurgents had been competent, so yeah, that was stupid of me. The outcome was nasty too. The group that did it was mostly dead 3 weeks later, hunted down. The last few unlucky survivors surrendered and were handed over to the ANP. Yes, the ANP with a reputation for brutality and torture even before you kill their children. Poor fools should've opted for a bullet instead. Squeaky clean on paper because 'The suspects were handed over to the police', but the reality is we gave them to a bunch of pissed-off torturers and nobody's seen them since. But hey, the ends justify the means right? We had to bring them to justice, and since we can't execute them, that involves letting a bunch of ignorant fools get tortured, so that's totally justified right? At least that's how we thought back then. The world involves a lot of choosing lesser evils, and you need to constantly evaluate on which side you are unless you want to end up being the greater evil. Can't have evil dudes going around murdering innocent kids, it aint right and sets a precedent. Only way to do that is to kill your way through most of them and have the remainder tortured to death for a couple sick videoclips that the ANP will share around as a warning. Is killing and torture good? Of course not, but the situation arose once where it was the lesser evil. But if you then go religious on that principle, reason your end justifies all the means, and go 'All these guys of [group I resent] deserve it', that's when as Nietzsche put it, the Abyss stares back at you.

[@TheLostPrimarch2nd]

@@nvelsen1975 I was half way writing a response, until I re-read it…. And shit, I kind of agree. There is an old phrase I like: “Monsters must be slain”. It’s a truth, is it not? Monsters are dangerous, and must be killed. But, in killing them, don´t we become monsters ourselves? Then, should we be slain in return? Where is killing the killer justified? Where is the monster killing another monster becomes justifiable? Are there different kinds of monsters? Is torturing (use of fear as a weapon) terrorists (who use fear and terror as weapons) justifiable? Don’t we become terrorist ourselves? I suppose that is looking into the Abyss. The difference is who blinks, who slips into that Abyss. The key to not slip into that Abyss is to question your actions with reason and self-awareness. Like faith, you need it challenged to be really faithful, so if you challenge those hard, almost evil choices, for any other solution, when you take that solution, you will know there was no other option, or at least no better option. And if there is no better option, is it really an evil choice? Isn´t evil a question of motivation?

[@meiketorkelson4437]

Javiers performance in the film is so magnetic. During the duel between Paul and Feyd, you can see it waver when Paul is stabbed. When Paul is triumphant, the way he utters "lisain al-gaib", it's a man clutching back at his wavered faith.

[@dorbie]

In God Emperor the Museum Fremen are all that are left of the once proud and tough people. Stilgar's tragedy is a small part of the tragedy of his entire people. However, quite early in reading Dune you get a sense of deep time and all peoples being erased and leaving nothing but echoes of the past. It's one of the reasons Dune resonated for me when I read it. Nothing is permanent, everything is lost to entropy.

[@LainVics]

That's soulcrushing

[@tenebrousjones4897]

The series is so far into the future that humanity has forgotten Earth.

[@violaskin]

everything and everyone..well, except the real kwisatz haderach - Dunca Idaho ;)

[@Marlboro-lights1]

Man, I lost both of my parents this year within 6 months and I’ve been questioning my existence. I didn’t think a dune video would make me a tad emotional thinking about life and purpose. Well done man. Thank you.

[@JustMe-um8zp]

I think the quote from the books (I could be wrong)..... Paul thinking to himself "It was then that I lost a friend, and gained a follower". The scene was done in sadness, as Paul didn't want Stilgar to "convert", but to remain a teacher and inspiration, and mostly: a friend. One of the saddest parts of this fantastic book series.

[@supacopper4790]

It is really sad to witness his "downfall" from a wise leader and friend at the beginning, to a fanatic man full with blind faith in the end.

[@magetaaaaaa]

You really feel it in the book when Paul realizes that the people around him have gone from friends to followers and he is essentially alone.

[@sushmag4297]

Stilgar is so scary towards the end. I'm the beginning he was a leader. He was chill, he was funny, he was wise. In the end, he a completely brainwashed fanatic. The scene where Chani comes and tries to talk to him and his face doesn't even change from a trance like state really broke my heart.

[@XGAMER-hs4fy]

@@sushmag4297you should see how he’s known in history by the time the story gets to god emperor of dune where he’s known , at the end as a fool , his faith is tested in children of dune with the twins and what they see and how he cannot come to terms with it due to his blind faith and preferences it’s sad tbh

[@donny1960]

Sometimes what we see is not what is there. Stilgar "created" Paul as his "Messiah". He wanted liberation for his people and made Paul the tool to that end. Remember in the movie. Stilgar forced Jessica to be their Reverend Mother. Otherwise, Paul could not be the Lisan Al Gaib. Stilgar led his people out of bondage. With a new weapon...... Paul.

[@participantparticipant506]

I see quite a bit of Stilgar in Morpheus.

[@Hmongboi228]

"What happened, happened and couldn't have happened any other way." Why do you say that? "We are still alive...."

[@ir0x539]

so many stories are derivative of Herbert. He's a visionary.

[@onstr]

Little known fact is that Stilgar was based on Morpheus.

[@fyrewolf7805]

@@onstr what? dune was written over 30 years before the matrix

[@hipotalamus]

@@onstr more like Dorpheus

[@maedre1759]

I DONT CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE, I BELIEVE!!!

[@GailsOfLaughter]

This was very impactful to Paul and to me, as a viewer, too. He doesn't care if Paul was stating the truth because he sees the signs and Stilgar is desperately believing for the Lisan Al-Gaib to come and lead them to paradise.

[@ryankwon8785]

Stilgar regretting not killing Leto II really shows how his faith and fanaticism shifted over time.

[@morgoth4962]

Stilgar is a representation of the people who live through hardships. When you have so much hard time, you need to believe something, or you simply cant go further. I see a lot of real life people cannot cope their hard lifes, so their religions or beliefs become their last lifline. Dune series show me that even 1000 years later, religions will not dissappear. It's simply a cope mechanism but it is sometimes beneficial, sometimes not.

[@Realbdjb]

We didn’t come from nothing, the universe did not create itself. You need to humble yourself my arrogant athiest friend.

[@holeefuk1087]

​@@RealbdjbYes it was I who created it

[@Realbdjb]

@@holeefuk1087 We come from star dust so in a way you did, but there is something that triggered it. Where did the God particle come from? It's a paradox which leaves me to believe there is a higher power beyond our comprehension.

[@isaacdelvalle2027]

​@@Realbdjbnot quite a humble response😂

[@Realbdjb]

@@isaacdelvalle2027 In what way?

[@_Fulgur_]

one thing to learn from stilgar is that just because you believe in something even if you're willing to die for it doesn't make it necessarily true

[@capnbarky2682]

Except it was true? Stilgar was instrumental in the establishment of the prophecy he believed in (water and green on Arrakis). The only problem is that the prophecy he manifested had ramifications he couldn't foresee (museum Fremen). I think it would be more accurate to say that what people want is not always what is best for them. We can make manifest our prophecies in reality but they might destroy us. Belief in god and faith are actually terrible, potent powers in real life and can do terrible thins.

[@Dularr]

Uh​@@capnbarky2682 ah, the persecution of people of faith because you think they are dangerous.

[@fernhausluv44]

@@capnbarky2682 "It's not a prophecy, it's a story that you keep telling, but its not their story, its yours. They deserve to be lead by one of their own. What you people did to this world is heartbreaking."

[@capnbarky2682]

@@Dularr My personal belief is that the power of faith is extremely powerful and so it's actually better for good people to try and make the best of it instead of acting like it doesn't matter, is made up, or they feel it's below them.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

It was true though

[@abstractedaway]

"I have seen a friend become a worshiper, he thought... and it was the bitterest thought of his life." Thank you, Valaritas. You're capturing the core philosophies of the novels *and* films, and these are the things that make Dune resonant beyond fiction.

[@jonathanvandewalker8471]

The quote "It was a lessening of the man" still hits hard no matter how many times I think about it. I've never read the books and in my watch between the first movie and the next, thought characters may have just been weaker, but this shows the writers intent and the warning you describe here. Also clearly the directors respect the source material and I am excited for more.

[@havedrill1]

Great explanation. A lot of this went over many people’s heads. One of the most important lines in the movie was the conversation between the emperor and his daughter. “You under estimate the power of faith.”

[@phunkym8]

yeah i was really surprised how quickly stilgar went from what felt like the leader to pauls number one fanboy. he basically stepped down and let paul have the reigns. morpheus was happy to find neo but it still felt like he was the boss of the group and equal to neo.

[@soph1.1]

I agree, and I think a big part of that was the change done to the timeline in the film compared to the book. In the book Paul stays two years training and fighting with the fremen before going after the emperor. That sudden change felt less sudden (for me) while reading the book because of the time it takes

[@ketzbook]

@@soph1.1 yes, that, and the fact that all the Fremen know Paul is a better fighter, which to them means Paul deserves to be the leader.

[@Nickname-ef9tv]

One thing the TV miniseries (especially Children of Dune) caught best, even compared to Villeneuve, was the theme of tragedy. The Fremen who lose their ways, the Atreides who got their revenge only to dissolve within a new order, Paul and Leto II who are so mighty yet powerless, the members of countless factions whose game for power becomes irrelevant in the new order, even the mighty worms who go from beings of veneration to studied specimen on the path to almost extinction.

[@KhalkedonYT]

I am so sorry for people think Stilgar is a comedic relief character. They clearly cannot see his tragedy. Thank you for making this video. Truly amazing!

[@HK-gm8pe]

yeah...I was once in a cult ( long time ago its a longer story) and I have to say that I saw soo many people like Stllgar , even the way he speaks , soo blinded by his fate

[@DailyShit.]

Both can be true

[@hafirenggayuda]

He still is, Stilgar is a tragic clown who is very eager to find his messiah, he losing his sanity

[@retyroni]

Fundamentalists are ridiculous. It's appropriate to laugh.

[@Rauruatreides]

Humor was intended, but more as humanisation than being the end of it. It clearly had changed by the attack on Sietch Tabr, where he was no longer the funny prophecy man, instead being a fanatic willing to lay down his life.

[@azmodanpc]

The museum fremen mocked by Leto 2 were the nail in the coffin for Stilgar imho.

[@jackkraken3888]

WTF? What did it say?

[@squirrelknight9768]

My favorite scene in dune 2 is Pauls proclamation. Not because of Paul, but because of Javier Bardems Performance! It is the first and most powerful portrayal of true religious fulfilment in cinema! Not of a religious awakening, Stilgar was already a believer before, but true fulfilment and satisfaction of one man's believes! Javier played it perfectly. It made me as an agnostic see the power of faith... Why ordinary people can be pushed to the absolute Limit for their faith. Why it can be both, terrifying and beautyful at the same time.

[@SerialSnowmanKiller]

While Paul may not have been a 'true' messiah; did he do wrong by the Fremen? I mean, he DID lead them to freeing their own planet, and then conquering the universe. Most peoples throughout history would be quite happy with a leader that led them to take revenge on their enemies and then become great conquerors.

[@rikk319]

In the short term. In the long term they were exterminated.

[@JonnBenny]

@@rikk319 In the long term, everyone is exterminated.

[@rikk319]

@@JonnBenny In the long term everyone dies, all cultures and societies die out. Whether that's done with intention is the difference between dying out or exterminated.

[@bryanmcclure2220]

@@rikk319 not exactly exterminated. It’s not like they were genocide. It’s more like the environment conditions that made to the Freeman Freeman seems to be. the Freeman were of people shaped by desert and worms. Worms can only survive in desert. It was his promise to them that he would transform the desert in the Paradise, but worms cannot survive in Paradise worms without desert Freeman still technically exist. They’re not Freeman at least not how Steele knew them. But then again that’s only what the Freeman technically wanted to live in a paradise full of water. They got their wish.

[@alfatazer_8991]

You should read the books. Pauls Jihad leads to the transformation of Arrakis into a lush green planet. This in turn leads to the almost complete destruction of Fremen culture and the great sandworms that they venerate.

[@holstblock.web3]

The tragedy of the fremen going to the holy war at the End of Dune two is the something I have been thinking every time I watched the movie and felt sting my heart. Very well narrated analysis.

[@voice-less]

I never understood why people call it a tragedy, they finally have a chance at fighting back, matter of fact, it's not just a chance, they have practically an omniscient being leading them to exactly what they desire, yes a lot of people will die, a lot of people will suffer, but it's not like the alternative was any better, they were suffering either way, they were getting killed and hunted regardless, but now, they won't just fight, they will win

[@donny1960]

Should not sting at all. It was set up by STILGAR. Not Paul. The Fremen had been abused for thousands of years. They, as a people wanted liberation from the powers that abused them. Stilgar made this liberation happen, now! Saw in Paul the weapon they needed and used it.

[@THENEW6]

Paul struggles with this dilemma for the entirety of the book. He foresees that NO MATTER what he does, the seeds of prophecy will flourish and the jihad will happen. There is a point in the book where he sees that the only way to prevent the jihad would be the immediate death of the entire party right after they meet the fremen for the first time, leaving no survivors to tell tales and let the legend grow.

[@rikk319]

Paul didn't have it in him, though, to sacrifice himself and his mother to prevent that. Besides, it was too early in the book and Frank Herbert meant him to make the wrong choice. Paul, like Shakespeare's Hamlet, is too driven by the desire for revenge for his father, and he blows right past that opportunity to give up he and his mother's life so that the future doesn't turn in to that unavoidable massacre.

[@dogbonest]

I love your analysis and in-depth explanation of Stilgar's tragedy in Faith. Thank you for this.

[@hassanalkhalaf1115]

Your beautiful analysis aaide, can we appreciate the way you narrate this? The music fits perfectly to your voice!

[@J1283-s1k]

'You want to make God laugh, tell him your plans'

[@ChosenTheKing]

This was very well made. I have found it difficult to separate the book from these two incredible movies, particularly how character decisions taken by actors can have surprising knock-on effects to Herbert’s themes. Stilgar being a source of comedic effect was one of them, so I appreciated the “grounding” or reminder of what Herbert thought the character should be as the story progressed. Again, great video.

[@shinankoku2]

The earnest portrayal from Javier is what elevates the performance from comedic to profound.

[@imperialmight]

Stilgar doesn't care what you believe. He believes!

[@viktordoe1636]

Everyone here seems to overlook that tiny bit of the story, that he was actually right. How is it wrong to believe in things that actually exist?

[@eustatic3832]

Faith is the psychological trick that keeps us from breaking down in the face of death and hurt. Bardem s Stilgar was such a great exploration of our desire for comforting delusion

[@Playwithdeutschland]

I love how stilgar went from friend to follower, all of the qualities of stilgar and Paul has is great. You need someone to help combine people, the reason the fundamentalist didn’t like the rest was bc they weren’t interested in the policy, is crazy how Paul killed the best fighter with ease, I’m going to watch this movie again. I love it, I’ve watched this movie 3x, we need more movies like this tbh

[@Krunkishisamurai1]

I've been waiting on your next video and you did not disappoint. Thank You for another excellent edit

[@Vilified_Vagabond]

I noticed how he began to loose his hardened crust and stops leading his own people with his own abundant wisdom, and how he began to blindly worship and grasp at every sign of the proficy

[@donny1960]

That is surface sight. Stilgar made Paul the "messiah". Started when he made Jessica become their Reverend Mother. As for leading. Look at that scene when the Fremen are waiting for the Worms in the Battle of Arakeen". That is a face of a leader on the verge of winning. Also remember. It was Stilgar "leading" the Fremen to "paradise" at the end. Paul was full of regret. Further proof that Paul was NOT the user in that scene.

[@yaakovkrakowich4563]

This channel should have FAR more subs

[@sedlyholmes3722]

Right now fans are making meme about him but in 3rd movie he's really a tragic character

[@ceptember.]

Thank you for the spoiler

[@rikk319]

@@ceptember. The video literally gives even more information about the 3rd book, did you even watch it?

[@HoneybeeAwning]

@@ceptember. it's not our fault you never picked up books that have been around for 1969.

[@donny1960]

Just like the Bene Gesserit were tragic in the first. All that planning and all that work........ Only to be left with regret. I still think Herbert was writing a great story around the old adage.... "Be careful what you wish for.... You might get it.".... Both the Bene Gesserit and the Fremen got what they wanted. But the repercussions were unseen. Paul saw. That is why he is so sad at the end of the movie. He "became" what everyone wanted. But knew they were going to be disappointed in the end. But was powerless to do anything about it.

[@howdareyouexist]

​@@HoneybeeAwningSILENCE!!!

[@jerrylovelight]

"Lots of horrible shit in this world gets done for "something larger than ourselves"". - Sandor Clegane, The Hound

[@joncarson3060]

“I will have to eat every bleeping chicken in this room”. -The hound

[@smusgrav]

I watched this video and had to rewatch the movie. This really made me appreciate this movie more. Great video!

[@chrism3790]

This is how strong civilizations facing hardship, like the Germans after WWI, can be so easily galvanized by an authoritarian figure that is seen as a savior. Hope can be even more dangerous than hate and fear, because it's a far more powerful motivator. People will readily abandon all caution when they're blinded by the idea of a better future.

[@donny1960]

I feel Stilgar, at least the movie one, is completely misunderstood. Remember...... I mean really remember. His scene with Jessica at the "sacred water" pool. He basically told her she HAD to be their new Reverend Mother in order for her and Paul to live. To Live......... He was calling the shots. He was using the "Prophecy" to get his "Messiah" now. He was crafting Paul into a tool to lead the Fremen out of bondage and transform Dune into the "Green Paradise" they were promised. From Paul's point of view, Stilgars devotion was 100% directed at him, the Lisan al Gaib. But Stilgar made sure Paul fulfilled the Prophecy. Not the other way around. Remember Herbert used to call the events of his Dune, a story about "Plans within plans, Wheels within wheels" So the faction of Fremen that thought their "Mahdi" should be a Fremen. Really got their wish.

[@sad-lb4vr]

My god this is such a great video. I come back to this video for inspiration. Thx ❤❤❤

[@takeonedaily]

3:00 Force is what sticks out in my mind. There are many instances where we see the prophecy 'forced upon' by the actors in this story. Stilgar and Jessica. Jessica and Chani. Even Paul and Gurney. It's really interesting.

[@ElBandito]

Similar with Anakin and "the one who brings balance to the force", in Star Wars.

[@rikk319]

@@ElBandito It is like that with a lot of "Chosen One" plots--it's about destiny and free will. Neo in the Matrix, Anakin in Star Wars, Paul in Dune...prophecies are used in stories where the protagonist's agency is taken away from them...or they believe in a prophecy and willingly follow it, giving away their own agency.

[@raminybhatti5740]

Excellently articulated ideas 👍🏻

[@williammiller673]

Excellent video, the most thoughtful I've seen on a movie I really, really enjoyed. Thank you

[@davidwiles6042]

I found it strange when reading the book that the Fremen both worship the worm and work to its extinction.

[@caelandrada8422]

I was thinking about that when I rewatched part one and 1st sat down for part 2. I think it’s one of those things where their physical needs are battling with their spiritual needs. The fremen ,after all, are human so they need water, food, and cooler weather so there would obviously be a sort of hope that the planet they live on would terraform into that sort of environment but the sand worms would die in that environment. I think their reverence for the sand worms were a natural progression from fear to worship. It’s just what comes after accepting the fact you live among 400 ft long warms that could devour your entire tribe is you walked a little too weird on the sand.

[@poopdekjones]

The plan for terraforming Dune always included a desert region for the worms to continue to use. One thing that the movies never touch on is that Spice is highly addictive, and withdrawal from it is fatal.

[@sk8ermGs]

@@poopdekjoneslol you can’t just give the worms a desert on the planet and expect things to be ok

[@caelandrada8422]

@@poopdekjones I think the movies at least implied it. You're right. It doesn't specifically cover that aspect but considering how precious people treat it and the manner of which we are told it can induce psycho-active episodes, I think normal people can just assume that it can have those properties.

[@donny1960]

They did not know. Again, a huge theme in Herberts books. Sometimes there are very bad consequences to getting what you want. Or thought you wanted.

[@Inmediostatvirtuss]

dangg, so basically at the end Paul's son turned into jabba the hutt and since arrakis transformed into a paradise world the sandworms went extinct. Now the only capable being who can produce and poop spice is leto ll thus controlling the known universe forevermore.

[@ParameterGrenze]

I never saw Stilgar as the tragic figure in the books. He personifies very much Pauls chosen name: Usul, the stone foundation of a Pillar holding the Sietch together. He is ‚a simple man‘, but with depth of character and wisdom. The thing is: Paul delivers everything the Fremen in general and Stilgar wanted. The lessening of the man happened because he gave up what he is, his peoples stone foundation , and gave that title and role to Paul. There is a quote in the books, about how if you destroy a mans place you destroy the man. Stilgar the leader is destroyed, and Stilgar the follower is born.

[@GrouchyC794]

I think a lot of fans forget he basically threatened Jessica to make his beliefs become true

[@JoshSweetvale]

Hope is an extremely powerful weapon. The greatest mind-control anyone can wield.

[@AndreFlickUS]

Every video, you are getting better. Keep up with your great work!!

[@franciscomontiel7994]

Dude. I felt the same. Everybody was laughing at the cinema with stillgar scenes and I was thinking about that cuote and feeling bad. Just watch the first movie and the second and you can see the nerf stillgard took, it's insane

[@ivanstrydom8417]

Javier Bardem (Stilgar) continues to provide a stellar performance, skillfully balancing epic, grounded characteristics with subtle yet brilliant comedic relief. ‘’I am not the Madhi.’’ ‘’Only the Madhi will be as humble to deny he is Madhi.’’ ‘’As is written!!’’ XD (Touche Villeneuve..Touche)

[@PeoplecallmeLucifer]

"I don't care what you believe, I believe" THAT is a true tragedy of Stilgar

[@mineknight8317]

It's not a story Atreides would tell you. It's a Fremen legend.

[@jeffmarlatt6538]

This was a really good video. Thanks for making it.

[@syren4731]

4:00 Stilgar's experience has less to with a self-fulfilling prophecy, and more to do with what the work of hundreds of years of belief can do, on the course of shaping reality. What are the odds that a boy with the power to become the Kwisatz Haderach would end up on Arrakis? That his mother, a Bene Gesserit, would defy her sacred order to bring forth a son and his father's leadership and status among the Great Houses would threaten the emperor? What are the odds that, that boy -Paul-would end up on Dune where the people have been oppressed and religiously manipulated for centuries and because of annihilation of his House, would be set on a path against the Imperium that he was once a part of? Paul was vulnerable after everything he lost, his identity subsumed by Fremen culture and engulfed by it on all sides. There was the pressure of their belief pushing him, his mother leading him down the path to become the Kwisatz Haderach and of course his own unconscious desire for revenge. Even through the power of his prescience, there seemed to be pressure closing in on Paul from his own ancestors. This is a very dramatic display of the intersubjective nature of reality and how we are sometimes held in place by the things other people believe about us.* Paul (perhaps with the exception of Chani from the movies) was surrounded by people who did not care much for his own personal choices, his autonomy or his individuality. Stilgar said it himself, "It does not matter what you believe, I believe!" If Stilgar's belief was a thread that held Paul in place, imagine then, that Paul was covered in threads by all the people who believed. Paul may have used the Fremen to get his revenge but arguably, they also used him to fulfill the role of their Messiah. They did not care about Paul so much as they cared about the Lisan Al Gaib, so in essence, the propaganda of the Bene Gesserits prophecies became more than propaganda. It became a pathway that Paul started and his son Leto, finished. I don't think there was anything "Golden" about it. It was just the most natural, the most probable course of reality and of the future based on the powers at play: the perception, thought, belief of the vast majority and the psychic nature of Paul himself. Frank Herbert wrote: "The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience." The Bene Gesserit, it seems, didn't understand this. They tried to bio-engineer a solution for what they perceived as the problem of life and for Paul, unfortunately, it meant the Shadow aspect if his psyche was fed and validated by millions of Fremen. If the course of *revolution* has taught me anything its that, it *never happens peacefully.* People with power hardly if ever give up that power even when it is good and right to do so. And usually, when power flows in only one direction for hundreds of years, it is because it was was frozen in policy. It has become a system. Say, for example, that a Harkonnen grew a conscience. Could they stop fighting the Fremen? Stop harvesting Spice from Arrakis when the whole Imperium relies on it for interstellar travel? But the point is, perhaps the Fremen too had an unconscious desire for revenge. I highly doubt that the Harkonnens were known for their _mercy._ "“Three hundred years of humiliation, abuse and deprivation cannot be expected to find voice in a whisper.” - Martin Luther King Jr. And perhaps ironically: "The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them." - Karl Marx The problem with the Fremen also was that they seemed to whole-heartedly believe in the prophecy, in the transformation of their desert world into a "Green Paradise". Did they not stop _once_ to question what a green paradise would mean for them as a people in terms of the culture and livelihood? If I were Fremen, I wouldn't care about a promised Savior and a green paradise so much as I would care to liberate my planet from the Imperium's control and then hopefully, forming our own governing body to control spice production and distribution. Since Arrakis is the only planet with the resource that facilitates interstellar travel, Arrakis would've become if not the most powerful, then certainly the wealthiest planet in the whole Imperium. I would then fund the research to try to terraform only parts of the world- its human territories. In that world, humans and the Shai-Halud might've coexisted. 5:16 I don't think Paul traps them in the shadow of Muad'dib myth. I would argue they were already trapped and by being trapped, *_they_* trapped _him._ Whether or not they meant to, they put the power of governance in his hands. Did they ever stop to consider the price they would have to pay for this "Green Paradise" or the fact terraforming a dessert planet would take years and years to do? If they had, they would understand that even if they fought for that future, they themselves may never live to see it. Instead, it seems as if all of their desires were left vague, grounded in myth and wrapped in the shroud of religious fervor. And of course, one can argue that it is not their fault, that it is the Bene Gesserit's fault but I think to do that also reduces their entire population from thinking human beings to mere receptacles of blind faith. What would have happened if they had their perspective was grounded in realism instead of religion? If it was, they probably would have taken responsibility for their freedom from the Imperium upon themselves instead of waiting for a promised messiah to do it _for_ them. Essentially, the Bene Gesserit's machinations would have been dismantled to some degree. I would also like to add that Paul was groomed from a young age to become a Duke. He knew that one day he would have power over others and that they would be subject to his rule. In the movie in particular, it was as if he moved from being expected to become the Duke of Caladan to Duke of Arrakis to Messiah of the Fremen to Emperor of the Known Universe-all roles which gave him significant power over others. I'm not sure Paul ever let go of the notion that he was meant, in some capacity, *_to rule._* He was born and bred for it. He might've felt a sense of loss when his father died and his House was exterminated but it seems as if there was yet another group of people around the corner, just _waiting_ to put the power back in his hands. Letting go of the person you grew up thinking you were made and meant to be does not happen overnight. It usually takes years of diligent work to disassemble that level of conditioning. Something that a person has to have the time and opportunity and dedication to do. (And if they are very, very *_lucky_* the right systems of social support) It is also not something that happens when you are too busy surviving. From a movie standpoint, it doesn't seem that Paul ever got that chance. If he had truly began to question and confront these things, and his desire for revenge was dragged out from the darkness of his Unconscious and Individuated, it is very possible he might've made a different choice. He would have drawn boundary between Himself and everything the Fremen believed and it would've given him the space he needed to reject the Jihad. 6:34 Of course told from Stilgar's perspective, the story is indeed a tragedy. He realizes, in the end, that he actively participated n the near-extinction of his people. But all is not lost. If Stilgar was fair to himself, he can rest in the knowledge of all the things he did not know or fully understand and, perhaps, forgive himself for it. Also, in time, the people of Arrakis would find massive skeletal remains of the Sandworms, the way we find dinosaurs and archeologists will study Fremen culture the same way we study the cultures of the Ancient Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians. To the observant mind, history is never fully lost. Instead, it carries the weight of many lessons that we might learn if we are patient enough and disciplined enough to hear its Voice across time. *Intersubjectivity and Self-Perception - especially powerful with the people who we are the closest to, and who matter to us the most.

[@ShauryaSriram]

Started the vid to pass the time and couldn't put it down. Excellent

[@craigiedema1707]

This is an excellent summonation of Herbet's key point.

[@masamune2984]

This phrase is overused, so forgive me, but I’ve never subbed to a channel so fast. This video was PHENOMENAL. Thank you, and looking forward to more, regardless of the topic.

[@ValaritasYT]

Hey, thanks a lot!

[@BCWasbrough]

During my first viewing of Dune 2, whenever the audience would laugh at Stilgar's lines, I would cringe. Having read the books, I knew Stilgar's path and couldn't see his decent into fanaticism as funny. I heard their laughter and realized they didn't know what was coming.

[@devilpupbear09]

"The problem with loyalty to a cause, is that the Cause will always betray you"

[@charlesbritzman501]

That quote that opens this video has the echoing depths of plain-spoken eloquence that is the hallmark of the finest wordsmithery.

[@Vibranze]

I like the word choice too

[@maedre1759]

great video btw, as written!! 🎉

[@davecrupel2817]

I'm so happy I'm not the only one from caught on to this. It's okay to put a little faith into something. But like anything else, too much of even the best things in life can be bad for you.

[@HankookTires-fe1xk]

I mean people also seem to miss that in the end, Paul basically IS a god. The prophecy is false, sure, but what does that matter in the end? It exists, and Paul is whatever the Fremen were waiting for.

[@lonewolf9390]

Paul breaks wind... Stilgar: Lisan al Gaib!

[@cameronneal932]

Tbh when Paul literally said he isn’t the Lisan Al Gaib and Stilgar basically said the signs are there and he doesn’t want to be the Messiah fuck that he literally a humble Messiah I’m like wait huh

[@meerkats9317]

The saddest part is when Paul looks at Stilgar and then Gurney in the books and wonders if he will lose another friend to gain a creature/follower.

[@sorayageloo954]

Thank you for this video....the state of the world right now is scarily close to the beginning of the dune saga....

[@jamesreed4229]

This encapsulates the tragedy of Dune so well. The ending of Dune make it plain that they are no longer the "good guys"

[@seditt5146]

But, the prophecy was not made up it was real. Something about the Dune universe I don't understand, least how everyone talks about it, is why everyone states the Prophecy is fake but it was created by people who legit have the ability, albeit limited, to be prophetic. Then on top of that they aid in fulfilling it, using more short-sighted prophetic visions making it even more likely the long term plays out as written. The prophecy clearly is not just made-up propaganda. It was a prophetic vision, from prophetic people, who spread that knowledge expecting it to work out differently because they could not fully understand their muddled visions. Only Paul can see how it plays out and Leto REALLY knows what must be done.

[@conormccue2871]

Because there's too many atheist manchildren who are desperate to interpret the events in the story as a message of falsehood. This is necessary to preserve and continue their own perspective in real life. Anyone familiar with the OG book understands that the Bene Gesserit didn't invent this prophecy: They were instead the very first people to perceive it, to believe in it, and to try to find a way to make it manifest. Their spreading of the knowledge of the prophecy through a religious format was about making the rest of the galaxy their eyes and ears with billions of people across hundreds of worlds observing the potential signs of the coming of *The Ultimate Power.* The movie swung way too hard at the Bene Gesserit while also denying them many of their best scenes. While do believe it was for the best that they were made very unsympathetic, the movie is hostile to the many of the deeper philosophies found in the text of Dune. Still, I understand the decision. The Bene Gesserit alone are responsible for the destruction of House Atredes. The Venerable House Corrino had nothing to fear of the popularity of Atredes and the Emperor, while jealous, was a deeply loving man who all but raised both Duke Leto and Baron Vladimir as his own children.

[@mikelewis7405]

Excellent! But, as the saying goes, those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

[@zachlewis9751]

What I’ve learned about Dune is that everyone is a pawn to the legend of the all powerful emperor to be who will save humanity. Paul’s a pawn, Leto II is a pawn, everyone.

[@ovandocarter6377]

only problem is... its not a fake prophecy. The beny Geserate can't see the future... yet all the stories came true. How could they know that he would ride the sand worm or die and com back to life with the tears of chani? The story should have been written such that they were just drawing connections between things that are not really clear. But it is really clear to me. Pual has "The Voice" he is from another world... he did die and come back to life, he did ride the sand worm.

[@muaddibnelson]

Excellent video essay on Stilgar’s religion fanaticism and how tragic his story is!

[@Despotic_Waffle]

The points made in this video nail it completely. Many people found stillgar to be comedic because religious zealotry has been made into a comedic trope in the west. But those who live under it have a completely different lense. I come from a somewhat moderate muslim background, but my parents are pretty fundamentalist even for my society's standards. The facial expressions, actions and attitudes stillgar had scarily reminded me of my father. You can frequently hear muslim elders recounting stories of the prophets or the prophets companions with such zeal and seriousness. Their awestruck expressions at certain things. Their feeling of disgust at other things. To the west its life of brian, to people who have to live with these things, it is a people ready to go to holy war...

[@saidtheactress]

I very much enjoyed Mr. Bardem channeling Anthony Quinn in this part.

[@jessicagomes4043]

Great insight! Thanks

[@PeloquinDavid]

I'm on board with this take 100%. But the full tragedy of the Fremen has only just BEGUN to be told in Dune Part II...!

[@General_reader]

Extremely well written

[@twilso12]

“A world without worms” - sounded funny at first until I remembered the story of the worm that swallowed the moon

[@Dawnarow]

I am in pain. for I am burdened with the thoughts of many... only to consecrate what I have known for the last decade since I've met her. I am in pain to know that her coping mechanisms are unhealthy and unsound... but I know that her issues are those of the many and she is part of it all. Your video carries more meaning than most work I've tumbled upon in years. I sincerely wish you could see what I do for you've gained a lot of perspective through a book I should have read as a kid. I never enjoyed getting lost in other people's thoughts so I've done my best to succeed without doing what was asked of me. I've gained skills I should never have learned and used them to decipher her curse. Our society calls it "npd" and has no positive prognosis. Years and years of "talk therapy"... is not on the table for how fast we are destroying what should have been. I'm not a theist nor do I know why these prophecies seem to allow for me to take a place I never wished to take, but I think we are doomed if I don't. All I wanted was one true love and I have found it when I was a teen... then healed from life taking it away from me. Then I met Her... the most broken person I've ever met... bound to fail at the thing she seemed to have such ease to acquire. Too many people are shallow because there are no directions, karma or prophecies. Just too much information that was never rendered clear and accessible. I was never interested in anything except the culmination of all the things I have learned (which I thought was "love") and, in way, this is what I will teach... It pains me that I want nothing for myself. Thank you for sharing this video with us.

[@Lek_2.O]

Stilgar went full 'Life of Brian'

[@BenjaminStenlund89]

Great Video The music is great too

[@sebpaul3548]

Javier Bardem, what an incredible actor. Perfect choice for Stilgar.

[@veramae4098]

"This is a story they use to enslave us!" Chani She is not diminished. Chani remains Chani.

[@TheLostPrimarch2nd]

But in the book Chani did not abandon Paul, nor did she storm out. She was loyal and followed him like no one else. Her characters is a whole lot different, and personally, not in the good way

[@conormccue2871]

She is beyond diminished. Her character is so butchered compared to the books that she immediately becomes a forgettable and ineffectual foil to Stilgar whose presence in the movie is usurped by Jessica. Frankly? I loved it. Nice to see that character be relegated to the bin. Paul really never needed her and her role in the story book was much larger than I felt was proper within the context of Paul's journey to becoming the Lisan Al-Gaib.

[@BleuCrumb-t1t]

Although there are elements of fanaticism in the actions of the fremen, Paul wasn’t just any ordinary human. Dude was way powerful than even the Bene geserit reverend mother at just 17, not to mention his fighting skills.

[@XoLiTlz]

How could Stilgar not have known that should the prophecy came true, Shai-Hulud and the Fremen would be gone? Shai-Hulud dies with water, whereas Fremen is all about the desert. Bringing green to Arrakis would mean the end of both, but what is there to mourn and grieve for when they have the paradise as promise?

[@kevinschmidt8101]

As far as i know shai hulud would still survive. They planned to leave large parts of the planets as a desert

[@uknowbass]

Good analysis. Stilgar was saved by Pardot Kynes after his neck was slashed by a Harkonnen when he was a child.

[@mrsmucha]

This was a great video!

[@104Abdo]

PLEASE MORE DUNE VIDEOS

[@jazzy8834]

Amazing video ! ❤

[@TheFroschkind]

Great Video! Looking forward to more!

[@oscarsvensson4360]

Background music name?

[@HawkFest]

I've been perplexed by people's reactions regarding Stilgar : witnessing the triumph of a psychological hold that dogma could have on human free will, I found his character frighteningly sad rather than funny.