The Tragic Foundation of the Open Society

Dr. Beckeld discusses why a tragic view, not moral perfectionism, is best for an open society.
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[@adilsonportojr.245]

I use to watch this video every month and always feels like I’m understanding something that I wasn’t last time, making new connections and finding different explanation for same questions that appears from time to time in every aspect of life. Good job.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

That's such a nice comment, thank you! I'm very happy it's helpful.

[@wolfwind1]

Very much appreciate your analysis. Thank you.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thank you as well!

[@FadiAkil]

The open society is anti-tragic in its very essence. The end result is moral nihilism.

[@matthewbilbily8872]

stumbled on this. glad i did.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thank you!

[@solomonherskowitz]

Great presentation, thanks!

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thank you!

[@DAILEYericCaryUSA]

Thank you for this video. It's helpful to me.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thanks, I'm glad to hear it!

[@Blackdragon1331]

I hope the idea of an open society fails, so happy to see peoples all around the world resist it.

[@wahtawilliams5866]

Have you ever given any attention to native societies such as haudenosaunee?

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Yes, though not to that particular society.

[@travcollier]

So many philosophy academics these days speaking out in favor of liberalism, but then complaining about 'woke' twitter mobs instead of the very active populist nationalist movements which are a much graver and immediate threat. SMH Liberalism has always contained the tension between liberty and equality of opportunity. Naively maximizing one severely damages the other. However, that does not mean that progress on both cannot be made simultaneously. While tradeoffs and imperfections cannot be eliminated, opportunities for improvement are plentiful. The Open Society is an adaptive system. It evolves.

[@oliverd.shields2708]

As you know George Soros uses Popper’s term as well. It’s a valuable legacy, however, what do you think of many adoptions of this legacy, including Soros, in popular culture? You’ve probably read Mandeville’s Fable of the Bees: Private Vices -> Public Benefits, from what you say in the first half about greed. How much does Smith, whom you mention later, adopt this view.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

I'm not sure which instances in popular culture you're referring to, but it's true enough that the term "open society" can be overused. I don't always like the way Popper uses it either, because sometimes in my opinion it leads him to a too Manichaean viewpoint. Smith certainly adopts Mandeville's view in many respects; it's the basis for his whole "invisible hand" and so on.

[@3leon306]

Hmmm ...many have written about the dangerous pursuit of a utopia and a perfection of human nature (utopia = “no place” and paradoxically “perfect place”), but Messianic thinking is an altogether different thing ...

[@HolyGround777]

Really enjoy your videos, the straight forward approach while covering several massive and complex topics is commendable. Why don’t we see more of you? Also how optimistic are you about the future? Personally I feel like that the guillotine is inching closer each day, both figuratively and literally. The level of immaturity in the greater population in-terms of understanding both the self and society is concerning.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thank you for your kind words. One reason one doesn't see more of me is that I have intentionally repudiated much of the academic establishment (which has returned the favor to me). But that might change, at least a little bit, as my Oikophobia book will hopefully be out one of these days - stay tuned for an announcement on that. As you'll see in that book, if you choose to read it, I am not - to answer your other question - optimistic at all about the future. To me the work that people like Thomas Sowell do (whom I see you like, as do I) can only slow, not stop our decline.

[@HolyGround777]

@@BenedictBeckeld Aha a mutual understanding I see. To be fair, who cares about the intellectual opinions of what is mostly demagogues and activist anyways? I will for sure keep an eye out for that, I trust there will be a video announcement dropping following the release of the book? I had never even heard of the term oikophobia before I stumbled across your video on it. I think a long form version breaking down the idea will prove very useful as well as interesting. The I’m sure the subject explored in there will hit close to home considering I live in Stockholm Sweden. Yes, Thomas Sowell is a real good one! Sadly I agree with his statement: “There is such a thing as the point of no return”. On a happier note: good luck on finishing up the process of releasing the book!

[@BenedictBeckeld]

@@HolyGround777 Oh, what a coincidence: I don't look Swedish, but that's what I am (or was), having been born in Uppsala and also having lived a few years in Stockholm before emigrating at the age of fourteen. Hälsa Stockholm så hjärtligt från mig, en vacker stad. Yes, there will definitely be an announcement video on the book, both before and after its release. Thanks!

[@HolyGround777]

@@BenedictBeckeld really? I would have never guessed! Usually you can tell if someone is Swedish by the name or by the accent but you are really flying under the radar here! Haha jag hälsar hem!

[@jaybe1203]

Great topic. "Perfection equals tyranny"

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thanks!

[@shomsavarkar]

I'm a 19 year old student and I love your knowledge and work a lot . ❤️ From India

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thank you very much! And fond greetings from New York.

[@obrotherwhereartliam]

What would you say of a philosophy that aims at the telos of perfection (in this specific case: to be free of deprivations) and attempts to achieve it through a kind of democratic consensus; or most likely the case, an elite consensus. Would you say that would then that it’s a feasible goal? There’s a philosopher by the name of Ulf Hlobil who defends this view. But my sense is it’s blind to other viewpoints about the meaning of someone’s life (say religious). But it has the architecture of a religious belief, so there’s a kind of madness to the goal; it is by definition anti tragic, so anything that would reaffirms the tragic outlook is a threat. Aren’t these two views fundamentally incompatible and will always be opposing each other for as long as we’re here?

[@BenedictBeckeld]

A telos of perfection achieved through a democratic or most likely an elite consensus - isn't that what we are experiencing now? I'm not familiar with Ulf Hlobil, but your description of his view sounds to me like our current situation, where an anti-tragic, oikophobic, and "woke" elite try to eliminate undesirable elements. And that would indeed be incompatible with the tragic view.

[@obrotherwhereartliam]

@@BenedictBeckeld yeh he was trained under Robert Brandom and I took courses with him back in the day. He'd probably say that's not how things are currently going but I have a tendency to agree with you. Meaning through democratic consensus sounds like german middle class state-craft theory to me.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Yes, very well put. It's the Kantian spirit I've written about and which reigns supreme in Germany - that surely every rational person, and even children, would agree with us about liberal society and the moral law.

[@mindyschaper]

Of course, we begin with the Greeks. Wise point about everything having two faces - good and bad. Moral purism is a good term - one of those phrases that expresses an idea I didn't articulate well. I wasn't sure how you were going to tie that term into your original statement, but that all tied in very well.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Damn straight. And thank you, I'm glad it made sense. Perhaps I should have mentioned John Keats' concept of "negative capability" as well, which is very important to me and relates to this.

[@gregrichey840]

Very thought provoking! I definitely lean right but feel the left is useful to keep the extreme right at bay. The extremes scare me.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@helenpsych02]

Enjoyed your presentation, as always. Let's remember that the Anglo-Saxon philosophers based their "acceptance" of human imperfection on that very view in the Hebrew bible.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

On that and on a similar Greek view, yes, certainly, agreed. It's a good reminder for those who erroneously think that our traditions could continue to stand on their own after the removal of their religious foundations. And thank you.

[@johnjones6601]

Gentleman/scholar 🙂👏

[@spikedaniels1528]

So sad.

[@elijahnixey-paton925]

What's your view on the existence of God?

[@BenedictBeckeld]

I'm an atheist, but I abhor the militant atheism of many other atheists. You can see these two videos of mine on the subject: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpm4pWOKdpyBgpY kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKCbeYqwrqqKkJo

[@elijahnixey-paton925]

@@BenedictBeckeld it's certainly a case that can be made, which as far as i can tell is "religion is necessary for a society to be moral and have a sense of community. That said, i don't believe that it's literally true." Another example i see of positive benefits of as belief in something that may not be true is belief in an afterlife. The benefits being it allows for a person to delay gratification post death and therefore provides benefit to the resources that your future lineages have access to. I think of this is an example of evolution pointing us towards a misapprehension of the causal structure of the universe because it improves our chances at survival on an evolutionary timeframe. Please correct me if I'm summarising your views incorrectly of course.

[@BenedictBeckeld]

The first part is certainly what I think, yes. As for the afterlife, the case you make is a reasonable one, though I also think that belief in an afterlife can hurt creativity in some ways. As with so much, it's a mixed bag.

[@elijahnixey-paton925]

@@BenedictBeckeld that's interesting. On a seperate but related note, what do you think of Jordan Peterson?

[@BenedictBeckeld]

I agree with most of what he says and think he does important work. (My only critique would be that he should stay away from philosophy, where often he doesn't know what he's talking about.)