The Trial of Pamela Smart

Pamela Smart was all the news in 1990. She had worked in a high school in New Hampshire, however when her friendship with a student developed into something more, this wouldn't end well for her husband. Or Pamela Smart for that matter.
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• Music from That Chapter

[@nowasiwassaying...1699]

Hearing your "hey you" is like having an old friend walking through the door.

[@colleenlally-ross7105]

He had me at "turdy-tree" 😉

[@matteframe]

Living in quarantine makes this especially real...

[@hand__banana]

@Corby Dinzen how mad are you

[@jimmyzhao2673]

Nice

[@dianewright6204]

I love your new glasses Mike

[@annaheff7332]

I find myself saying “give it a goo” in real life and no one knows what the hell im talking about

[@erinmuro1912]

OMG! I do!! You Listen to True Crime Obsessed don't you?!...😂😂

[@Squishito]

I've absorbed 'I hear ya barkin' big dog' into my daily lexicon.

[@IndependantWoman87]

Hahaha this cracked me up

[@Collins1118]

And don’t try to explain

[@peapie5920]

Lol! I have found myself saying “hey you” to my kids when they get up in the mornings. Lol.

[@JL-el7ju]

The fact he refused to give his wedding band up 💔 she’s a monster

[@TheMarinemom02]

Those of us who remember her laughter and giggles, her excitement at being on TV, her lack of empathy for Greg, her manipulative statements, her other photos taken with the kids, and the full trial, are not surprised at all that she’s doing life. She got her way, Greg is still dead. She just didn’t get away with it.

[@nikkilengyel]

"He was easy to talk to" Translation: he was easy to manipulate

[@b4ubcomeold]

Absolutely 100% spot on perfect statement!!!!

[@jt8162]

It amuses me that manipulation is always shown in a negative light. EVERYONE manipulates. It's not about manipulation so much as the intentions behind it. Besides breathing it's one of the first actions we do (crying to get something - alright typically, I was told when I came out I barely cried at all.)

[@audreyann1975]

Exactly. He was easily manipulated and any predator would pick up on this!

[@raymaharaj4502]

@@jt8162 Stop crying! Lol. Jkz.

[@baybuhmoose]

@@jt8162 saying everyone manipulates is like saying everyone lies, technically true but the difference between what's in a normal range and how sociopaths treat people is night and day might as well be comparing completely different things. Amuses me how chronically dishonest people or thieves are usually the first to suspect someone else of lying or stealing

[@margaritaiov330]

it’s not an „affair“, if one of the participants is 15 years old and the other is a grown woman and additionally in a power position. look at this boy, he’s clearly a child.

[@hereticlife2546]

I’m 36, when I was 16 I “had an affair” with a 28 year old married woman. I knew then and believe now I am the one who was the seducer in that relationship. I was this cool, arrogant, 16 year old kid with long hair thinking I was the next rock star and clearly some fantasy the woman had from back when she was a teenager. It’s just not the same for boys and girls, it’s not. Even though she was the adult I was physically stronger than her, I was bigger than her, I was more confident in who I was. I’m not saying females can’t be all that stuff, it’s just not as common.

[@MindyMarie.]

It was grooming and rape.

[@HelenTudor-Douglas]

At 14:00 the quick fade-in fade-out of Jeffrey Epstein over Alan Dershowitz's face was HILARIOUS!!! I haven't spontaneously laughed out loud, that loudly, that quick, in YEARS! Thanks Mike! : )

[@-danR]

Yeah, that was sneaky, ha; for a second I thought it was part of the broadcast somehow...

[@Luna.3.3.3]

🤣 I thought the same thing! Mike's a clever guy. Throwin' in a 'lil shade!

[@wcolautti]

That was beautiful! 😂

[@Secret_Soul_Survivor]

YES!!! I loved that moment and wondered how many would pick up on it. Luv you're SOH Mike❤😅

[@monique5248]

Ya I caught that too. Lolol

[@treyk7460]

It's so gross to hear Pam refer to her relationship with her teenaged victim as an "affair" and for the media to call him her "lover". He is not her lover, he is her victim just as sure as her husband is. It's so frustrating and grotesque the way we treat male victims of abuse, especially in the media. I honestly can't help but feel bad for Billy, even though (of course) what he did to Gregg was not okay. He was still a victim of grooming and abuse by a trusted adult figure. Pam is the real monster here.

[@aparnarajesh]

For me that Billy was victim just like JC

[@larking1555]

It’s not just male victims. We still call children prostitutes- we still allow 14yr old girls to marry groomers. And it’s RARE that an adult woman tries to marry her victim- many men not only try but have success in doing so. It’ll be a great day when this ends.

[@user-pi5dx3ju6n]

Actually she was Patrick Randall's victim. What ignorant people like you don't understand is that bill Flynn did not shoot Gregory Smart. Patrick Randall did. The only crime that was intended that night, May 1st 1990, was a burglary. But Flynn, Lattime and Fowler had no idea that Randall had stolen a gun from Lattime's father and brought it with him as a precaution. Greg came home and caught them in the middle of the burglary. So Randall decided he might as well rob Gregg. At that point Randall knew that Greg would be able to identify them so he made the decision to murder Gregg. My advice to you is before you comment on something as serious as a criminal case for which an innocent woman is serving a life without parole sentence, you should make sure you've got your facts straight.

[@elizabethcompton738]

Billy was no saint and neither were his scumbag friends

[@chalicecasillas7895]

right how come she didn't get in trouble for having relations with a minor

[@Wildmutationblu]

She took a teenager "Billy" who had a crush on her and ruined his life. That alone, deserves a prison sentence.

[@johnv6806]

Butters?!

[@mattv2280]

Wtf butters?? 🧈

[@sara-mh8hl]

A crush doesn't lead to killing someone. If he was any bit sane or had a heart he'd have ran or told somebody, or at the very least wouldn't have done it. The fact he actually went and murdered a man he didn't know just over a crush shows he had that in him already and that it was only a matter of time. Its sad for sure, but they're all shitty people minus the girl who wore the wire and told the cops.

[@odonnellcaleb]

It deserves a sentence for sure...But not life. I truly think as awful as she was for other things that she didn't get a fair trial.

[@sara-mh8hl]

@@odonnellcaleb thats fair enough for sure. He did look genuinely remorseful both at the trial and 25 years later after the fact. Whereas miss Pam just acted entitled through and through.

[@Sabrina-uf6ic]

When Mike said she was dressed like a christmas tree I pictured her in a legit christmas tree costume and got really confused for a second

[@FlameFlickers]

I find the thought of her showing up in work wearing all her jewelry cos she was worried the guys would steal it really funny for some reason..

[@heyysimone]

I thought it meant she was wearing super colourful clothing so people would see her and for like an alibi.

[@kitterzy]

heyysimone See, that would actually make sense!

[@aroseinwinter7719]

Same haha

[@OnlyM...]

So did I!

[@missolesoul]

Remember she told Billy that she was being beaten and he thought he loved her. It was not only because he loved her. He thought he was saving her life.

[@farrienyoungblood5257]

She has to be the most immature 23 year old ever. “Well he liked me but at first I didn’t like him”. Sounds like a 7 year old. She needs to stay in prison and keep her no lip mouth shut 🤐

[@beegee4791]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 what did her lipless-lips ever do to you? 🤣🤣

[@lariwyman6273]

Lmaooooo 😂 🤣 I noticed that she doesn't have an upper lip!

[@tabithawagner7424]

I was thinking her emotions are easy to hide bc she doesn’t have lips 😵🤣 is she smiling? Frowning? Pursing? We don’t know lol

[@IndrasChildDeepAsleep]

Im 22 and I don't even want to date someone my age, definitely not younger than me. How she considered it "dating" or "having an affair" is beyond me. That was a child.

[@Mehki227]

Yes! If anyone could be forgiven for getting lip injections, it would be her. 🤣🤣

[@stancexpunks]

Greg refusing to give up his wedding ring because “his wife would kill him” is super ironic but even more sad 😔

[@DoctorDex]

Yeah that was just heartbreaking

[@rabbit3212010]

Yeah, the thing about irony is not to point it out when it's obvious.

[@frankie1012]

Pam’s a Sociopathic Borderline Personality. Once Greg cheated he signed his death warrant.

[@cocogoat1111]

Weird he would draw the line at that but still cheated on her...

[@guitarbrad]

That scene is in the movie which is based on this case called "To Die For" starring Nicole Kidman.

[@cirahquinn8102]

She manipulated a 15 year old boy into killing someone. She used his infatuation with her to her advantage. She knew exactly what she was doing and didn't care who got hurt. She just didn't think she would get caught out.

[@KitKat4Christ]

I thought he was 17.

[@cirahquinn8102]

Even if he was, which I don't think he was, 17 is still underage.

[@debodatta7398]

RIght I MEAN THE WIRETAPPING ALONE should be enough she literally threatens her that she'll be tried if she ever tells anyone...then tried to play it off in court like "oh I was pretending" like how dumb is she

[@AutumnSwift2]

he said he wanted to be a hitman

[@farrienyoungblood5257]

She thought she could lie her way out of it

[@gobackgina]

PAM: 'I am afraid that one day your gonna come in here and be wired for the police" POLICE: Well today IS one day 🎧🚔

[@njwpoo666]

I remember this well, as I was living in Southern NH and acquainted with one of Greg's cousins. The whole thing was horrifying. We called her Pam Not So Smart.

[@KafkaMike71]

The Epstein fade in over Dershowitz was a brilliant touch.

[@ahnahstahjah]

Im confuses about it, what does it mean?

[@shyvonneed]

Ha ha I noticed that too, but thought I would check see if anyone else noticed

[@mavtx21]

@@ahnahstahjah Dershowitz was friends with Epstein and part of his legal team. Some say he would get minors through Epstein

[@annemiekvdbos]

Yes it was! Great little touch 😊

[@fernandapartridge5174]

Such a creep that guy... both of them.

[@haiden5272]

"Relationship" "Affair" no, it was rape and manipulation. The fact that these terms are still being used today is disgusting.

[@jordandennis6794]

It only gets used when it's a man manipulating a girl. When it's a woman manipulating a boy, it's "well, he enjoyed it so..." Disgusting shit

[@ceciliahidalgo3904]

It's disgusting how common it is, where I live, Chile, a thirteen years old girl was kidnapped by a thirty years old man, and the news was all about their relationship, her sexual life (she doesn't even have the age to conscent) and how she was seducing this man, and just like her a lot of teens are humiliated when they're the victims in the situation but then wonder why they don't report what happend 😩

[@simplsaiyanappa6572]

I agree that statutory rape applies but this WAS a long consensual affair

[@haiden5272]

@@simplsaiyanappa6572 children cannot have consensual relationships with those who they look up to

[@sackme4377]

@chris kibodeaux It's rape if they're not above the age of consent, because they can't consent. He was 15.

[@bunnymad5049]

Not one word that comes out of her mouth is about her husband except that it comes back to her, her feelings, her thoughts, how hard it is for her. At least we know there's one person she truly loves.

[@tankeater]

Kid outside driving got way harsher of a punishment than the two kids committing the act... Wow...

[@Cr4zyM3x]

Come for the "Heeeey you" and stay for the "Mike out."

[@Cr4zyM3x]

@Corby Dinzen There are stories? I just log on every Tuesday and Friday at 3pm, click the video, listen for "Hey you" then skip to the end and find the "Mike out", feel the dopamine rush, then close the video.

[@dakalodk]

Me too

[@jimmyzhao2673]

@@Cr4zyM3x very efficient, cut out the middleman, why stick around for all the 'goo' in the middle.

[@Cr4zyM3x]

@@jimmyzhao2673 That's right! Never let the goo in.

[@des9368]

Corby Dinzen i can tell your obnoxious to be around

[@janeygray8911]

Mike cutting himself off in the intro will never get old for me.

[@annaelisavettavonnedozza9607]

Oh God I know I fucking love it 😂

[@annapayne7654]

I just adore it when he does that.

[@jamesclark7752]

Lmao!!! Man I love his channel I watch a different one at least 4 times a day

[@johnmcmanus2447]

"What happened to Greg is the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my life." If that doesn't tell you she's a narcissist, I don't know what will

[@tacob69]

I love how people are caught on tape admitting their guilt then trying to tell you they are innocent.

[@PinkyJapan]

When you compare Billy’s emotions on the stand to Pam’s, it’s easy to see who was the mastermind behind this plot. He was full of remorse and shame while she gave zero f*cks.

[@Lara-xu3yc]

Her emotionless face is fucking frightening

[@kimmyfreak200]

@@Lara-xu3yc she also has such a boring personality too

[@ganiniii]

What do you know? Billy is a liar. They lied about who shot him they must have lied about other stuff too. Pam was fried because she listened to metal and in the 90's there was a wave o police cases conveniently solved with the arrest of a metal fan. All bullshit. She was in clear distraught when she found him.

[@lolawants2008]

@@ganiniii looooooool u are gullible aren’t u? Feigning hysteria is the easiest thing to do, & almost every killer does it.

[@lolawants2008]

@@ganiniii also, do u think deeply on anything? IF he’s lying… why? What does him lying & taking the blame for pulling the trigger if he didn’t, say about his character? And when you’re just trying to get info on a murder u had nothing to do with, & have had multiple taped conversations already, u don’t spend an inordinate amount of time talking about your fear of wires.

[@rynoX88]

"Good news, we got the killer. Bad news, it was you." Thats a pretty good line to tell someone guilty of murder.

[@baldeagle5297]

@Charles godwin Stan was released in 2000 according to Wikipedia. I wouldn't know, I've never heard it.

[@markpaul6823]

I want to be like Mike when I grow up. I don’t have much time I’m 70 His vids are the best makes me happy that I’m not the subject of one. I wish I was younger I could redeem the time. I would give it a goo.Mike I’m the vid you never made. My parents were a example and raised me to be goo d. Keep on trucking Mike.

[@ahmadhamaoui7857]

Any relation to Jake and Logan? Maybe GP?

[@ladykdog1756]

Redeem the time. With age comes wisdom. I have come to enjoy wisdom. However with wisdom comes grief. Ecclesiastis 1:18

[@markmike7933]

@@ladykdog1756 53 and I have a lot of wisdom from all of my mistakes (deliberate actions) but have a lot of pain in my heart from that hard earned wisdom. Damn that verse nails it

[@RaoulThomas007]

Is there an age limit on giving it a goo?

[@abelis644]

@@RaoulThomas007 Nope. Not at all.

[@XayRush94]

28:37 “Did you plan his murder?” *Nods up and down* “No I did not.”

[@jumpinjohnnyruss]

This happens a lot, and I can't see why people always read guilt into it. Do you think she was trying to tell everyone that she did it? Do you think it was somehow a subconscious admission? Neither seems plausible to me.

[@PinkKitten002]

It's an ingrained response showing you're listening and heard the person....

[@Simjorfeo]

@@jumpinjohnnyruss neither, the problem is that as a liar/manipulator you have to constantly fake your reactions, this is a very difficult task and most people tend to slip up with inappropriate reactions. It's not like her subconcious mind makes her nod her head because she wants to say "yes I did it", that's probably bullshit. Shaking her head would have definitely been the more "normal" reaction. It is possible that her mind was preoccupied with telling lies, so she nodded to make it seem like she was listening to the interviewer. Someone who is telling the truth is less likely to react like that since they do not have to concentrate on lying. Of course this isn't really a strong indicator that she was lying, but it fits very well into the picture.

[@jumpinjohnnyruss]

@@Simjorfeo Thanks. Good explanation.

[@DecemberUnDead]

"Teenage lover" ma'am I think you mean "sexual abuse victim"

[@peepbo3964]

Only if it's a guy doing it to a girl. It's called "equality"

[@angryviolentwitchqueen6633]

Thassa whole baby she done fondled

[@toast3591]

@@peepbo3964 no that’s still sexual abuse

[@peepbo3964]

@@toast3591 no way you think? lmao

[@leeann4743]

They didn't have "an affair." An adult woman molested a teenager.

[@sexybunnyxox]

Just another case of “why didn’t you just get a divorce?”

[@headphonic8]

The answer is usually either “money” or “children”. People don’t like to share either

[@kiiingst0n]

It said in the video that if she got a divorce she would lose everything. I guess she wasn't up for that.

[@sexybunnyxox]

@@headphonic8 yeah, but murder is just like losing the money or children anyway, plus prison.

[@kiiingst0n]

@@sexybunnyxox not if you think you can get away with it. It's a risk she thought was worth it

[@abebuckingham8198]

Money, children, and the social stigma of divorce seem to be the most common reasons.

[@tealbutterfly05]

"Yeah Cecelia, go walk the dog!" Made me spit out my tea. Being the third wheel might not be great, but at least you are not dead or in jail.

[@kdfulton3152]

Pam was one of those young twenty-something women who felt that there was no life after high school. She was very immature. I actually remember when this case was on tv. Yikes 😬

[@imboofingit8684]

Bro that fade in/fade out of epstein when the camera is on dershowitz is priceless

[@MizJaniceResinArt]

I thought I was seeing things for a second there...it kinda creeped me out

[@kimberlycopeland4354]

I had to go back and look again! I thought I was seeing things 😂

[@andreakoroknai1071]

I knew the name was familiar, but couldn't place it until the image of Epstein

[@LiquidCyrax]

This is what I came to the comments to see!!!

[@isabel152]

Lmaooo i was looking for this comment. That was pure gold

[@andrewknaff9220]

The fade in of Epstein when talking about Dershowitz was brilliant!

[@marlenamurataj5881]

Totally creeped me out

[@ChaCha.44]

I lost it 😂

[@ryansnustad9133]

It's douchewitz From the internet Here to lure your kids With him into bed

[@kuz4b]

All the tin foil hats have been taken off..

[@matteframe]

Wait was Dershovitz Epstien's lawyer?

[@rexremedy1733]

The 90‘s were the last decade where there was a consensus among all people in society that there is good reason to have hope towards a better future. It was the last decade where this was the case... Look at the shitshow of hopelessness and desperation of today. People who experienced the 90‘s were blessed. I feel sorry for those who were born after the 90‘s. I really do...

[@iwantthe80sback59]

The last interview with Gregg’s father just before he died was heartbreaking.

[@volmerboy]

Just what a my Friday needed. “Heeeeey you”. AND new glasses.

[@NyanyiC]

They look nice

[@cw6621]

They're perfect aren't they? I love em, but I love everything about this channel, so ...

[@liquidtna]

@@cw6621 same shirt for 2 years too. lol

[@Winchester1973]

@@liquidtna Maybe he got several 😅

[@michaelwhite2823]

Great glasses and I have ALWAYS liked the raspberry shirt, but Mike, you are becoming a star. You shouldn't be seen wearing the same clothes twice.

[@hystericmysteric]

FIFTEEN. SHE DID THIS TO FIFTEEN YEAR OLDS.

[@johnv6806]

Yeah. Plural.

[@jackanthony976]

Even at 15, I would never even consider killing an innocent man over some woman!!

[@flynick]

Yea it's manipulation of a minor! Imagine if she was a man..

[@zandiek]

Nevertheless it was still manipulation. Pamela knew what she was doing was wrong, but did it anyways. Whether they both consented or not still doesn’t change the fact that it was wrong and Pamela’s the one to blame

[@flynick]

@Sleeper 1776 when it comes to emotional intelligence a man needs to be almost thirty to match a twenty year old girl in terms of sexual manipulation

[@trumpetguy11]

One thing I find crazy in cases like this is, if you're willing to kill to prevent breaking up your relationship, why are you not willing to lie in court for that other person?

[@markmike7933]

you think you're gonna get away with it and never have to lie for her in court :) Everyone thinks they're gonna get away with it. even a DUMB plan like this. They all lived in their own world. The 2 friends were the biggest morons. Getting so little for murder

[@PixieMermaid-fz9rt]

Mike: ...to a town called Derry Me (thinking): Please say a Stephen King reference. Mike: Pam became Pammywise Me: YES!!!

[@tamikent8656]

Is anyone wondering about the child molestation that didn't really get addressed? This case was weird weird weird to watch back in the day...

[@aquablue1252]

I’m guessing they didn’t consider it such because it was a woman back then , or that the murder trumped the charges

[@aquablue1252]

But I fully agree

[@mattkaustickomments]

This was a about 5 years before the rash of Female teacher / male student cases started being reported and prosecuted. It wasn’t considered “a thing” before then, and public attitude has changed somewhat since then.

[@MelbourneMatty]

Matt Kustom Kostumes Sure, not great, but I suppose that it is, what it is. But why did Mike also just gloss right over it? In fact he touted her “achievements” since incarceration. I’ve never seen him do this for a male child molester, and nor should I. Regardless of her guilt in the murder, she still raped a child. It’s no longer the 1980’s. I’ve been a subscriber to this chan for a long while, and this disappoints me.

[@MelbourneMatty]

Kitten Lyric it was still definitely child molestation back then, even if it was viewed differently and prosecuted less. The PE teacher should have been strung up. The student was treated poorly by all and sundry, and that’s pretty fucked.

[@amityislandchum]

It took me a loooong time to realize "Jay Orr" was Mike-speak for "J.R."

[@sp1cyn0va35]

I was so confused until I saw his name in the picture lol

[@INTELLIGENCE_Revolution]

I only realized that after reading your comment.

[@robotaholic]

Me2

[@marieslabbert6009]

Me to. I thought he was namer after the donkey!

[@brianvandaele3855]

Mike did refer to "Jay Orr's" dad as "Ess Orr" (SR)...that was the clue :)

[@carebear8316]

Mike is one of the best story tellers with the best personalities KZbin has ever produced

[@attorneycarissa]

Thank you for sharing the post trial reports. It sheds new light on the case. I wish the boys had been kept separate from each other from arrest to trial. I don't think we'll ever know the truth.

[@Lord_Shadowz]

I can’t believe she said, and I quote, “What happened to my husband was the hardest thing I’VE EVER HAD TO GO THROUGH.” She had to go through? he’s friggin dead!

[@skeetwuzhere]

And then when she said that the memory of what happened in that house will haunt her... I’m convinced she was in the house. I don’t care about her alibi .

[@CourtneyTunbridge79]

100% Totally picked up on that. What about him, what about his family, what about the dog, I mean come on, more likely she should have said "MY HUSBAND'S MURDER IS THE HARDEST THING I EVER GOT CAUGHT DOING"

[@anusuryarajawat5834]

no its the dog " she cared about dog

[@raintree3383]

Sarah Boone had the same mind set.....how Jorge's death was horrible for HER...NARCISSISM

[@eggarino]

Even if Pam didn’t have anything to do with her husband’s murder, she still had a “relationship” with a minor. No sympathy for her at all

[@jaycievictory8461]

Statutory rape, no question. I would argue emotional rape too. Horrific.

[@nobbynoris]

And she should have been tried and sentenced for that separately.

[@dantebg100]

Lol are you homosexual? What kind of dude can talk like that?

[@dantebg100]

@Sean Charles lol... You are definitely a homosapien. And beta. and you sound like a simp. I don't know why..

[@kristinaljohnson4816]

No sympathy for 30 years in prison if that was her only crime? I am always freaked out by the concept of "judged by a jury of your peers". I would not be comfortable with the average dip shit deciding my fate.

[@hinduhillbilly]

1) I think Gus Van Sant's 1995 film To Die For is a great adaptation of this story and young Joaquin Phoenix is great in it. So is Nicole Kidman. 2) If the story that she wore all her jewelry to school on the day of the shooting is true then she clearly knew about it ahead of time. In that case she's definitely guilty.

[@stacitowery4461]

I know most of these cases, but can’t resist the way you tell the stories❤️

[@lily-joyheal9954]

"yeah Cecilia, *go walk the dog* " this will never fail to make me laugh

[@jakeswitzer1522]

I know it wasn’t intentional but to call what she did to billy an affair is just wrong. He is a minor and she is an adult in a position of power over him. As many others have pointed out, imagine if their genders were reversed. Our gender stereotypes should not be used to perpetuate abuse.

[@sejje]

Somebody get a time machine and let the people 30 years ago have a piece of Jake's mind.

[@jakeswitzer1522]

@@sejje lol I was referring mike calling it an affair. Give me a time machine though, I’m ready 🥊

[@lila2028]

Agreed. But the date,1990, was before societal recognition that it works both ways. Sadly, in 1990, it would have been considered an "affair".

[@littleshopofeldritchhorror6224]

I don’t know if this is the reason Mike used the word affair rather than abuse is because in uk an Ireland age of consent is 16.

[@yahnservices1978]

@@robertsecor2003 Do you maintain what you say if the gender are reversed ? "I'd like a piece of that action!"

[@robertmeyer8221]

This is one of the only cases I have watched on this channel where I feel justice was fully served.

[@cpvillacis]

When I was 16yrs old & my boyfriend broke up with me. I thought I was going to die. I thought it was the end of the world. I understand Billy feeling that desperate "don't leave me, I can't live without you" anxiety in his heart. She was his drug & he wanted her. As a young boy he knew killing another person was wrong & shouldn't be done. Pam used it against him. Kill my husband or we can't be together. Billy did it because Pam obligated him. What I don't understand is that if Greg cheated on Pam, why couldn't she use that to get a divorce. Blame it on her husband & his infidelity. She could of made him feel so guilty he probably would of left her the dog, house & belongings with her.

[@erin19030]

Yes always look for the blame. Blame is important especially a teenage girl. Talk about mean girls!

[@cpvillacis]

@@erin19030 I rather blame him for our marriage ending due to his cheating instead of having him killed.

[@Antes42]

I think the word "obligated" is a bit much, she definitely manipulated him, but no one obligated him. They all got what they deserve. I do not pity any of them. Greg is the only victim here.

[@cpvillacis]

@@Antes42 yes! Manipulated is a better word than obligated my mistake.

[@kirstenbaisner215]

Child abuser, SA, psycho manipulator to the maxx.

[@patricialessard8651]

My husband at the time worked with Greg's Uncle Jimmy. I got to know him and Greg's cousins before all this happened. Believe me, what you don't know about Pam would fill books. She was not the nice kind and sweet person that allot of people tried to make her out to be. She is where she should be and got there all by herself. Love your videos. Thanks and stay safe.

[@shaleamontanez4591]

Would love to hear about it if you have time! Im really interested in the case after watching a documentary about it

[@saintnicholas643]

She does not seem kind and to me, everything about Pam screams fake. She is Evil and I bet the people in prison saw that and thats why she took those beats,

[@Marciesplash]

Seems obvious to me if she considered a teen student as a close friend- probably liked being around people she could easily manipulate

[@grumpypumpkin1]

She doesn’t seem kind to me at all. Seems she planted the idea in the kids minds to kill, whether she organized it or not, and they did as they were told. She enjoyed them being easy to manipulate. Why couldn’t she find friends her own age????

[@patricialessard8651]

@@shaleamontanez4591 when I get some time I will. As with allot of people, things these days get crazy sometimes,Lol! Also, it's been so long since I've really thought about all that. It seems I only think about it when things such as Mikes video reminds me. Boy, when they started talking about her, it was sometimes hard to keep up! She was pissed at Greg for going "corporate" so to speak, where she fell for him because of the fact that they were both "metalheads". That whole life style she was into and didn't want to grow up. Greg,though had to if they want to have stuff. She wanted it both ways and didn't get what she wanted. Sorry, went off the deep end. Hope it gives you a little insight. Stay safe!

[@EyeC999]

I’m actually an optician, and am, therefore, thoroughly qualified, and certified to comment on your new specs. They’re very nice.

[@MassNssen]

What about her eyes, are they certified crazy?

[@EyeC999]

MassNssen Yes. Yes, they are.

[@cowspotmccracken4921]

"aim a but higher~not with a scope~" I'm dead

[@haileygrey5047]

“Earring , leather jacket and an ax ?” -the deadly trio 🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻🤣🤣🤣

[@julieperez1879]

“Don’t kill in front of the dog, this would Traumatize him.” Absurd 😂😂😂 😂

[@aquablue1252]

Not really . It could have for sure

[@guiguox]

never trust a human being who cares about animals too much.

[@bigsealfan9579]

very interesting take considering the majority of TC's subjects were animal abusers

[@karleyjojohnston6835]

Ngl if I were going to kill my spouse I’d probably think the same thing

[@sweeneytodd011]

Weirdly though this really does show Pam was involved in the murder, its such an unusual and specific thing to say there's no way the female witness made this up, for me this really clinched Pam guilt and involvement in planning the murder.

[@xxka0tikkxx]

"I think we took the 90s for granted" We sure did. Wish we could go back.

[@marthapozo4881]

I feel the same.

[@DD-d6d3]

@Joanna Martin OMG the 70s felt like anarchy might break out. Richard Nixon, Vietnam, and inflation? No thanks.

[@ryansnustad9133]

Hot tub time machine bro;)

[@matteframe]

There was more crime in the 90s than now, which is nice.. But no youtube. so you had to watch your true crime on shitty non-flat tv screens.

[@pineapplepen540]

@Joanna Martin He was better than Carter. Yikes.

[@victoriawilliams2786]

The audio of the friend wearing the wire is what convinced me of Mrs.Smart's guilt.

[@ritaheilig6671]

The boys were only 15! Good grief. Your videos are always thought provoking and I love your voice, reminds me of home (Rathmines, Dublin) as I now live in Germany. Keep up the GREAT WORK. You are often hilarious. Some of these stories are heartbreaking and you somehow manage to find the humour in them. Thanks, it would be much too depressing without your "useful" comments!!

[@marizzatyler]

My anxiety fades away the second I click on your videos. Binge watched you back to March 2020 while knitting a sweater and hey - half of it is done! Thank you mate for providing lonely people with feeling they're not alone and actually have a friend.

[@bilindalaw-morley161]

marizzatyler I’m glad you’ve found a way to cope. Bless you, 🧸

[@TheMrsGeorgeHarrison]

I feel you on this! Ijust finished a binge of every single video. (His channel really changed!)

[@melissagray8138]

I’m glad this channel helps your anxiety, I get it! People tease me (not in a mean way) about my KZbin videos I can’t miss, but it definitely helps me get my mind off of things that cause me to be anxious. I hope you’re having a great day! 🤗

[@13lilsykos]

I tried to teach myself how to knit... I found out quickly that it's the devils work. (joke, obviously!) I crochet and I think I depend on the hook at the end of the needle to help hold the yarn, methinks. Or maybe I just need That Chapter playing in the background... 🤔

[@shishkebab5306]

I just posted on your home page. Wish you well my friend.

[@ThatPMacleod]

"To a town called Derry." How did you not make an IT reference? "Pam became... Pamywise." Well played Sir. Well played.

[@SoulDelSol]

I worked in derry nh and went to a meetup horror movie for It 2 in theater. One of girls had a shirt that said derry with balloon🎈. I said wow i work in derry NH. She said "it's derry maine!!!!!!" First and last meetup i went to

[@jayjay-602]

🤡 this one got me too!! 🎈

[@stevedavies4058]

I am a Director of Training and Development for my company - After watching these videos I found myself telling the trainees to "Give it a go" Lol

[@mindrolling24]

Pam’s blink rate when she’s on the stand is astronomical.

[@MissAlii432]

Had a good laugh when Pam asked for signal if there's a wire in the already wired conversation .

[@dontyellatmeimsoft886]

she really told them not to kill greg in front of the dog bc it would traumatize him but she wasn't worried that would traumatize the boys wow true psychopath

[@LunnaJannah]

That’s exactly what she is

[@spaghetti9845]

I hope the dog was ok

[@tashalynn29]

The dog was OK. However when the boys went over there to lay in wait, they chased the dog around before catching him, then threw him down the basement stairs, and laughed at the thumping noise he made rolling down the steps. Then they ransacked the condo, hid and waited for Greg. Her parents got the dog afterwards.

[@tashalynn29]

@@lisafoos8976 wow. I find you unbelievable too, Lisa. It's called READING ONE OF THE MANY BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT THE CASE. GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND, LOOK THEM UP.

[@tashalynn29]

@@lisafoos8976 no problem. The book "teach me to kill" written by Steven Sawiki was the first book I read about the case . That's where I read about the dog being tossed down the stairs. It was a well written book.

[@paradisedreaming6363]

Cop to Pam: “we’ve got some good news and we’ve got some bad news….the good news is that we solved your husband’s murder, the bad news is that you are under arrest”….best line EVER!

[@jessicaclark6580]

Love how she nods in the last interview when asked if she planned it but says no. Not to mention she said she's haunted by memories and quickly says of what might have happened 😑

[@HorrorSakuraQueen]

That was in my state...she still to this day is trying to get out....she’s a piece of work

[@jessicaatkins5820]

Born and raised in New Hampshire myself and I was really young when this case happened but I remember my mom following it

[@Rebma7420]

My state too!

[@HayleysComet3]

They have her on tape practically admitting to everything. When that girl wore the wire.

[@NeVs-cb1oc]

@@HayleysComet3 and till now she’s insisting she’s had nothing to do with it !!!! After sooo many years she’s finally realized, her plan to get rid of her husband DIDN’T work and now she daydreams of been free ... Guess what Pam ... it will NOT happen !!! I’ve always said it ... jail for life is the BEST punishment!!! Let them rot, locked up for life, and think every day of their stupidity that has ruined many lives !!!!

[@Goblin4Coin]

I can't give you my ring, my wife will kill me Everyone in the jury: 👀

[@faithsnyder239]

Your comment had me rolling

[@yesiamthatgradeAcunt_]

Poor Greg.

[@Kt-cn2rq]

👀👀

[@Tekape]

cute profile picrure :3

[@duddydud]

Can't make that sh@t up

[@saleo37]

Great example of how powerful one narcissist mind can be..

[@BeautifullyBroken1022]

I have lived in New Hampshire my entire life and my Aunt lived in the same Condo complex as Pam and Greg, this was a huge story. We were all so heartbroken for Greg and his family. I hope she lives a long miserable life in prison 😡

[@ameanasaur]

2020: we really did take the 90s for granted

[@user-wy1et9dk9w]

Felt that way late 2000's

[@pullingthestrings]

Right on

[@Deathbybigmac420]

Lol 🤣we took 2019 for granted and every year before. So I agree

[@orangehoof]

@@Deathbybigmac420 For the first time in six months, I got to sit and eat in a restaurant while watching a ball game on tv. Man, that felt great. I can't tell you how much I'd missed that.

[@kingkonut]

laughs in bosnian

[@porfirioayarzagoitia6966]

The fact that she wore all her jewelry on the night of the murder says alot.

[@haileygrey5047]

I thought she was lying fairly well until she said he played the guitar- she nearly lost her composure 🤣🤣🤣

[@heyitssarah7545]

When she says “No I did not” for the first time in the interview with the lady, there are two tells to show she is lying. First, she nods ever so slightly while saying no. That shows her subconscious is saying yes. Secondly, when you are lying, you are more likely to not use contractions in order to try and better make your point.

[@Druku1977]

It literally pains when I I say " That Chapter should have a new video" then I search and find nothing. Then, when I go to search for something else a while later and a new one appears it makes my Tuesdays and Fridays. I'm a truck driver, I look forward to listening to these all week. The rest of what I put on is just to quell the silence.

[@redriot2115]

Pam: I'm worried you'll have police wiretaps!! Cecilia: 😶

[@shantesummers5775]

Knowing what we know about the world today, we defo took the 90’s for granted! 🤦🏾‍♀️😔

[@haroldrodriguez5678]

We? Maybe you lol

[@leslieleslie6590]

Mike, you make this case fascinating and hilarious! I adore your sense of humor.

[@MW-do6cl]

Mike says, "Not a bother!" I hear, "Nutter butter" im hungry

[@TheSquareOnes]

Heard the exact same thing haha.

[@maniyaburgess859]

I heard "Nutter Butter' as well😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@jamilsmommy]

Same!

[@ladyphelps21]

Lmao same

[@chieflongsock]

Or when he closes off the video, " Mike out"...I hear "my goat"🐐

[@djeyeskold1279]

Mike, since your early videos, your personality has really shone through and you seem in your element now. Very witty yet serious. You're a natural presenter for sure. 👍👍👍

[@BerkshireBitch]

I usually agree, In this case, he fell hard for a pretty face. I was around when this happened. She is guilty af. Mike, C'mon, man!

[@christyhoehn8244]

@@BerkshireBitch - ikr? Mike is oddly sympathetic to this little murderess. She was a teacher and she preyed on the boys’ feelings.... she IS guilty af.....she is paying a longer price than some other murderers tho.....

[@stardust164]

I agree, he throws some humor in and tells a good story!

[@Shadoefax760]

Mike, Michael you are a gem my friend. Your videos are a beacon of light in the dark cloudy world I occupy. These 20-30 minutes I can escape into your videos are the best all week for me. Thank you man, I'm gonna watch one more video & it'll make 🌴in a row.

[@vio8916]

Just today she's finally accepted responsibility for the murder. I guess she's aiming to get her sentence changed so she gets a chance at being paroled instead of serving in jail for the rest of her life.

[@RR-mv1vr]

Child abuse was obviously a very different thing 30 years ago!Not even a raised eyebrow over her relationship with a 15 year old!🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@johnv6806]

Same thing now when its a woman offender. I know of 2 women personally that slept with boys between 13-15 and neither got charged.

[@MissJessyeNorman]

@Jesus’lilcumbag420 69 Thank you!!! Our system is rigged in favor of pedophiles. It's PURE EVIL. And most people don't want to face it, and what it means. It can ONLY mean that those in power WANT it that way. I.e., that a large portion of those with power, influence and monetary wealth are pedophiles themselves, and either abuse the poor victims of pedophile rings, and/or are involved in the operation of those pedophile rings themselves, and are making their fortunes, at least in part, through the horrendous, wicked, and unutterably unconscionable suffering of children. We as the regular folks need to become proactive, and force changes in the legislation, to hold pedophiles of both genders to account - so that judges: #1 cannot deny the victims of their crimes justice, and #2, cannot send them back out into society, to create a litany of new victims.

[@MrRyan-wu4jx]

They had her for planning a murder so they didn’t go for statutory rape charges so if the murder charge didn’t stick they’d get her for that. It’s not like she got away with the child abuse.

[@ulivolga228]

She even referred to the boys as "children" on the stand

[@GhislaineMutombo]

Shows you how common that shit is. Sick.

[@CornbreadOracle]

I always felt a bit bad for Billy and the boys. It’s doubtful any of the three would have become killers if they hadn’t gotten caught in her web of lies. I am glad they served their time and are now free. Pam is exactly where she needs to be.

[@markmike7933]

The only one that seemed shaken on the stand was Billy. One kid looked like he was talking about the weather. Maybe that was the one who was an aspiring hit man. Don't know if that was a joke or running gag, but it's an odd occupation to strive for when you get older :)

[@larryroyovitz7829]

@@markmike7933 Teenagers say a LOT of things. Saying you want to be a hitman when you're 15 isn't all that strange.

[@annacostello5181]

Felony murder. If you participate in a felony that results in murder you are equally guilty even if you didn’t pull the trigger

[@-danR]

Here's an update, this March 23rd 2022. The state has rejected her exhaustive final appeal, 5-0, which came by a desperate final admission as the sole instigator of the scheme. She gambled away every pack of lies she's told for decades, expecting clemency in return. She has finally apologized to the family, thinking it would win her freedom, but nobody cares anymore.

[@tonysangster7383]

Highly recommended host, no BS like the others, excellent use of time listening to this guy. Very interesting!

[@justkali97]

Your sense of humor gives me life for real thank you so much for existing

[@LoveThoseTunes11]

OMG, I nearly choked with laughter at that subtle fade-in of Jeffrey Epstein. Mike, you are hysterical.

[@WhatAWonderfulNameItIs]

I caught that, too.

[@HobbesRN]

I thought that's who I saw...

[@mortizya666]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ilyakuznetsov1691]

Respect to Cecelia here. She single handedly took them all down, all while risking getting killed herself if anyone found out.

[@lizc2023]

And made 100K

[@EYE_GOTCHA]

@@lizc2023 Good for her, says I. 😃👍

[@Cert_if_eyed-Muff_dye_vEr]

She wasn’t in any danger! The kid already put the gun back so worse case if she got caught she would have to skip school the next day

[@spamalotcamelot132]

She did nothing stop the murder when she could have she is a criminal

[@raikaru0]

@@spamalotcamelot132 Not stopping a murder doesn’t make you a criminal? Unless you don’t report info

[@starchild3287]

I have a 15 year old and I swear to god any Peado bitch tried to have my boy like that The police would of definitely got there after me and that’s a promise I feel so sorry for billy I hope he’s living a good life bless him

[@grayskindablue]

The fact she was charged with SA of a minor is wild. The double-standards between teen girl vs teen boy victims and predatory men vs predatory women are just crazy. Speaking as a previous teenage boy, abuse isn’t magically not abuse or less traumatic because your abuser is hot and female. You’ve got some serious shite to process if you genuinely believe that. Teenagers think they want a lot of things that aren’t in their best interest and end up causing immense harm. That’s why we as adults, who hopefully aren’t impulsive and have fully developed frontal lobes are the ones that need to shut them down.

[@lukassrensen4788]

Better name for the case: “The Mullet Murder plot”

[@Animalfarm6cats]

Hahaha......I thought the same thing. I had a mullet.

[@Leoprincess3038]

Underrated lol

[@EYE_GOTCHA]

*The Mullet Murder Mystery* 😯

[@MsMcCoolio1221]

I was just thinking that as well!

[@Bea-Nuh-Luh]

@@EYE_GOTCHA haaaaaa I was thinking the mullet murder !!!

[@rosierose8549]

Anyone notice how creepy it is. That her poor husband looked like a slightly older version of Billy.

[@johnv6806]

OOHHHH BILLY!!

[@amityislandchum]

He looks exactly like an older version of Pete Randall (Billy's friend/accomplice) to me.

[@gameskape2585]

Looper

[@user-db6el7eb9p]

She has a type

[@Tekape]

that's often in such predator cases

[@richardsanjose3692]

I love it, "and why did he say u couldn't have his wedding band? " " Cuz he said his wife would kill him" Damn guy how prescient ,she wouldn't do it herself or in front of the dog but yeah she's already killing u.

[@kimstelly9480]

She DEFINITELY did it. I have no doubt in my mind. Her body language at the trial was so telling.

[@tabitha8232]

Me: why are all those groupies so interested in this case Also me: religiously watching each of the cases mike reviews

[@BalboaBaggins]

Because people love to see others being prosecuted. Society creates hate and anger in humans.

[@simonarodriguez3515]

🤣🤣🤣

[@nicolenotizieeamici]

Ha ha ha ..... that was me and my reaction too he he

[@faith119]

@@BalboaBaggins I just want to hear people's stories n what happened to them so that I would be prepared if someone wants to kill me

[@psychedlicsouljam1995]

Balboa Baggins we live in a society

[@glengraham7080]

She seems to think she is just one of the kids. Very immature herself in her mannerisms too.

[@angryviolentwitchqueen6633]

Ya I thought she sounded like one of the teenagers when she said “Cecilia told me Billy had a crush on me, and I didn’t like him at first but I started to like him.” Like ma’am you are a teacher not a teenager.

[@Dad......]

I'm only 28 but I'm already to a point where 22 year olds appear to be 15. I see kids who are 15 and I would swear they're like 9.

[@Dad......]

What's worse is imagining that woman-child mentality, with a manipulative personality, after 30+ years of a rough prison life. How much can you grow as a person in prison?

[@angryviolentwitchqueen6633]

@@Dad...... that’s me I swear like I’ll look at a 15 year old and I’m just “where is your mom you fetus?”

[@Dad......]

@@angryviolentwitchqueen6633 its so weird. I remember thinking I was a man when I was 15 lmao.

[@joshmccarty8800]

When she gets interviewed the lady asked if she murdered her husband she says no but her head nods yes

[@carbine090909]

No way you discover someone "passed out" without checking on them. And panic about it.