The True Antagonist Of God Of War? (18+)

[@TBP]

All right folks, no God Of War: Ragnarok coverage today. I wasn't able to procure a review code, so I've made some space in my schedule later in the month. Until then enjoy stuff like this.

[@NinjaXFiles]

Meh. The classics are more fun anyways (M y O p i n i o n, put down those torches and pitchforks 🗿🗿🗿)

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

I love this theory, It is now my headcanon. Thanks T.B.P. Have a great day and keep up the good work.

[@sloth6925]

What's your thought on the theory of Kratos being the God of Hope by the end of GOW 1 (Not war) and the fact that he lost hope by the end poisoned hope for the Greek world and eventually lead to all the characters poor decisions later on.

[@SubSero_]

Just wanted to say that 2 opens with Kratos attacking Rhodes, not Athens

[@BlackBulletRave]

@@sloth6925 Plays into Ragnarok quite well, although that can also have been Kratos's second wife's teachings at hand to boot. ' Be better '. Additionally, with Ragnarok having played out, I can't help at all that Athena's machinations still continue, albeit in the Nordic universe. She doesn't have an overt hand, but there's a significant plot point later on that REALLY plays into her mayhap taking a hand in events of the past, leading things to where they were in GoW 4.

[@Laxhoop]

“Athena was the true antagonist all along.” Me, a fan of real Greek mythology: “Makes sense.”

[@cristianleano8827]

Same since I like Greek mythology for a long time in middle school in 2007 and 2008

[@che595]

Athena is a big nerd that deserves all the bullying

[@tjepic5256]

Women 😮‍💨

[@HAMZA-OLYMPUS]

@@tjepic5256 😂

[@Akechifan]

@@tjepic5256 Women ☕

[@hewhobattles8869]

On the GOW wiki, I read that Athena was very likely also on of the Gods to be corrupted by the evils of Pandora's box when Kratos killed Ares. The evil in question being Greed. This would mean that even if Athena didn't orchestrate this plan to overthrow the rest of the Gods from the beginning, she was at least doing it since the end of God of War 1. Or maybe the Greed just accelerated her strategic thinking against Olympus.

[@JuwanBuchanan]

And Athena is still around as a spirit with the same goal of becoming the Supreme Goddess of everything so the next GOW game should shift focus back to her going around and manipulating other gods in killing Kratos for her own purposes.

[@Alex1611-I7x]

@@JuwanBuchanan I think that Athena's spirit is the spirit of greed like Zeus' spirit of fear.

[@pillarmenn1936]

@@MGrey-qb5xz Not really a retcon, everything has been clicking so far in terms of continuity. Zeus got fear so its more than like Athena got one of the evils. She herself also said she ascended to a higher existence and seems to still haunt Kratos. Plus, there's the mask that has the same color as her incorporeal body so I'd say that's a nod to her "higher existence".

[@pillarmenn1936]

@@MGrey-qb5xz Did we see the same GoW 1 ending? Cause I seem to remember nothing of the sort. Athena denied Kratos the release of the memories that haunt him (murdering his wife and child), causing him to commit suicide. Athena "saves" him and offers the position of God of War as compensation. The olympians during the first game were shown either as benevolent (Zeus as the gravedigger opening a hole for Kratos to climb out of Hades) or just useful in the form of the other gods giving him powers. I also seem to remember the original GoW 2 going a different route cause the original ending shows him watching over even modern wars and a 21st century military finding Kronos' skeleton in the desert.

[@juliourbina4149]

@@pillarmenn1936 The ending you are referring to is the one for GOW 1, not GOW 2. Also, the gods appeared as benevolent mostly because there was no planned sequel for the game, (with them as enemies) since the creator's thought the game was not going to be popular (love the irony there XD).

[@Action-Hero]

See that’s exactly what I was thinking when I heard Kratos say, “But I am your monster no longer.”

[@arrownoir]

That dialogue is completely out of character for Athena. The new God of War completely butchered the character. Stupid game.

[@Action-Hero]

@@arrownoir How? It’s not like Athena has ever been written consistently. She sacrifices herself to save Zeus and then a few moments after that she’s working with Kratos to kill Zeus and her only explanation is “I’ve seen the truth where I have not before.” I call shenanigans.

[@neinja66469]

@@arrownoir cope It's completely in line with Athena - just like Zeus and Ares she attempts to guilt him further but that dialogue shows Kratos has moved on Ur a fanboy I'm a fan Don't compare us

[@arrownoir]

@@neinja66469 That dialogue only serves the new God of War. It’s not in line with the character. Examining the character across her previous appearances should tell you that. It’s inconsistent with established canon.

[@arrownoir]

@@neinja66469 That dialogue only serves the new God of War. It’s not in line with the character. Examining the character across her previous appearances should tell you that. It’s inconsistent with established canon.

[@veaeli]

For a April Fools video you NEED to make a theory video trying to prove Crash Bandicoot is actually Kratos

[@oraziogallipoli7829]

yes

[@DirtyDev]

No

[@Fryguysun]

Maybe

[@LeRodz]

I mean, Crash does get tattoos later on. And he does have a connection with beings called Titans...🧐

[@Bigweenie1913]

@@beegdawg I’m weak😂

[@ExoParadigmGamer]

This hypothesis honestly makes the story better for me. Having played them all recently for the first time, I found Athena's heel turn at the end of 3 to be insufficiently set up when I played it. To me, it seemed like a contradiction of her character in 1 and 2, where she was portrayed as a mediator between Kratos and the Olympians. It felt less "mask off" and more "we need to fit one more plot twist in here to fulfill a quota." But this was a pretty convincing case that she really was playing the long con. And the fact (as I've learned from other commenters) that this is apparently supported in the mythology makes it all the more fascinating. Great vid.

[@theheroneededwillette6964]

I mean she was the one who basically told Kratos to open the box in the first place. Well her personal oracle too.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

This theory ties in pretty well with some versions of "The Birth of Athena". According to some versions, Athena's pet owl Minerva was actually her mother Metis, who Zeus betrayed and swallowed after hearing a prophecy that she would one day birth a son who would overthrow him, in disguise. The two escaped from Zeus's belly together and have been plotting revenge against Zeus ever since.

[@adolfogarzachaires394]

Zeus went full Kronos there

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

@@adolfogarzachaires394 To top it all off, Metis was the one who prepared the poison that forced Kronos to vomit out the other Olympians. She practically handed Zeus his victory only to get screwed over in the worst possible way.

[@mickeybat5816]

I thought Minerva was the roman name of Athena? Yo mythology continues to fuck me up all the time lol. Like legit I know it's because like 99.9% of the stories are basically comic books told by word of mouth, but fr it's so hard undersranding the mythology lol

[@faintfiction5389]

@@mickeybat5816 yeah it is, I don't think the owl was given a name

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

@@faintfiction5389 Maybe I misread that then. My bad.

[@thelongerthebetter]

Athena achieved what Odin was seeking. Odin wanted to know what happens after the Gods die. His answer was in the rift with the same light color as Athena's astral form.

[@amirk7837]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THAT

[@Korrupteddarklight]

There's been many theories to support that

[@tjjordan4207]

I’ve always wondered why Athena was trying to save Zeus in GoW2 but then I realized that she still believed that Hope was still in Pandora’s Box, meaning that she could have still needed Kratos to have a reason to open the box. If he killed Zeus, then he would have no reason.

[@MrDibara]

Correction: she *believed* that Hope was still inside Pandora's Box. ;)

[@eu7059]

11:05 actually when we encounter thera in ghost of sparta she says something about a prophecy of how Kratos would be the one to free all the titans. So apparently this was already known to happen as a prophecy and maybe Atena knew that

[@millabasset1710]

I love the idea of Athena being corrupt and more evil than Zeus. Athena wanted no Pantheon, she was only interested in herself and to have dominion over all life.

[@jasonlendrose]

There is another possibility than her plotting for power from the beginning. It could be she was somewhat ernest at first, but when pandoras box was opened and the gods were infected she was too and thus her intentions shifted. After all, she was surprised to realize that the box was in fact empty and that while the sins infected the gods Kratos got hope. She never seems to consider that she herself may not have eluded the corruption her family more fully succumbed to.

[@grogc6942]

There is one thing to consider. The Gods and mortals keep making prophecies come true because they try to avoid them. Since there was an oracle that foretold the demise of Olympus (Ghost of Sparta), Athena was probably one of the only gods not so headstrong as to think it could be avoided. All she had to do was hedge her bets, probably have a few options at any point in time, keep up being the 'good guy' to a handful of furious mortals until one started hitting all the check boxes, and plan for her own out. This means 1: No matter what, the gods were dead. She couldn't lose if that's part of the plan. 2: She had to die to fill the prophecy but there is always a loophole (hello godly revival like Osiris and Baldur) 3: She wanted to be close enough to the god slayer that when the time came she knew how to get that loophole since there was no telling exactly how it'd happen. So, allowing for the possibility that rewrites happen and so on I think it would have been actually overall simple for her to try and be the last god standing. Just keep track of useful items and know how they work, like god killing weapons such as Hope and Sword of Olympus. Even if she was infected by Greed that just means she may have deviated a little from her plan and tried to get more. She still may have won and is just taking longer to get to her revival point.

[@sortofrican]

I’ll be real, Athena always have me master manipulator vibes, even as a kid

[@hovari545]

and on top of that, every god other than her seems to be fucking stupid based on the interactions with Kratos. I don't think it'd take much to manipulate those fools.

[@falconeshield]

"Would you kindly...." vibes

[@Shendowa]

I’m a simple man… I see TBP post a God of War video, I click.

[@GodWorksOut]

I’m a simple man, I see TBP post a video, I click.

[@astoncameron431]

I’m a simple man, I click

[@Satellaview1889]

I’m a simple man, I

[@supermegapowerg1188]

I'm a sample man. I grow

[@oraziogallipoli7829]

seems legit

[@Quintuplin12]

I had forgotten that he stabs himself, while her ghost form was trying as hard as it could to rile him into trying to stab her instead. Given the outcome (god of war reboot sees kratos stronger than ever), it certainly is implied that the sword was holding a critical mass worth of god power, so much so that the next thing it stabbed would be *given* power rather than *slain* by it. And with her words and actions at the end, it is equally clear that she new that would be the case and wanted it for herself. You have made a beautiful video, and brought some fantastic memories back to me, so thank you.

[@gabbiemok]

Somewhere in Santa Monica studios: "yo Charles, Jot that down".

[@coca9152]

9:40 *Athena refused to undo her mistake. Imagine caring for a creature such as yourself.* That means Zeus at first ordered athena to go kill kratos herself but she refused.. Bro this theory makes so much sense.

[@HitmanHimself]

you know what happened after that right, why she refused to turn against kratos? She feared someone else (like gaia) might use kratos for their own purpose when kratos turns against olympus completely. which is kinda proven by the fact that after Zeus killed Kratos, kratos turned against zeus completely and he became the pawn of Gaia, kratos kept following gaia blindly. while Athena did warn kratos through her statue saying "You know not what you do, there are things far more important than your revenge, GAIA speaks half truths and falsehoods, the titans are not to be trusted kratos"

[@coca9152]

@@HitmanHimself i think we can interpret it however we wish, surely they left it out in the open like that to have an excuse down the line, thats awesome. i need to rewatch the video it's been 3 months. They say Gow is in development now right? :visible_happiness:

[@HitmanHimself]

​@@coca9152 a lot of interpretations can be made on certain things yeah. They made her quite an interesting character for sure. I generally like to think that she was good and so i make certain interpretations on why she might have done something something for the good of olympus. Mainly because i saw Cory Barlog (director of gow2 and 2018) saying in multiple interviews that she was good/not an asshole of a goddess like the other gods. and she changes in GoW3 because she gets corrupted. Also i read GoW1 and 2 Novels which shows the story from the perspective of the gods, where Athena shows great care for kratos and her actions and thinking are in the best interest of olympus.

[@El_Voltio]

It gives the “but I am your monster no longer” line more meaning in GoW 4

[@oraziogallipoli7829]

I remembered that in a flaskback of his past, when kratos held the bodies of his wife and daughter, the statue of Athena shone, testifying to the fact that she knew what was going on but did nothing to prevent it..

[@KazuyaMishima2204]

@Elijah Boyd 😂

[@Poussyeater-w5e]

@Elijah Boyd Lmao

[@Manjawline]

I thought it was a shame that Athena didn't make an appearance in GOW Ascension. They could fleshed out her motivations and intentions more before the events of Chains of Olympus and GOW 1.

[@EhrisaiaOShannon]

Sort of gives a bit more gravity...GRAVITY! to what Thanatos said to him at the end of GOS. "You Are Nothing More Than A Pawn, In A Game That You Don't Even Know Is Being Played." For sure makes me think. Great video. 💜

[@twistedvtuber9894]

I don't think "levity" is the right word, I think you meant "gravity".

[@jessehitchcock9141]

Think the game is being by the The Fates.

[@Poussyeater-w5e]

That's crazy. That would make GoW even more epic

[@ΆγγελοςΜορίκης-ζ2ω]

@@EhrisaiaOShannon levity is definitely not what you meant, i dont think

[@digenesakritas1107]

That's the game's creators breaking the fourth wall. Kratos is our pawn because we're playing the game. 🎮

[@spimpsmacker6422]

In the God of War novel, which may or may not be cannon, Athena is shown to hide an opportunistic and scheming side to her behind her usual reasonable and just facade. More specifically she was planning on seeing Ares be killed and used Kratos as a loophole in the Olympian order to get to that goal. Of course maybe her desire was fueled by understandable reasons and not just petty spite, like Ares trying to destroy her own city of Athens and just being a burden in general on the rest of the pantheon's affairs, but nonetheless the Athena we see in the early games versus what's possibly going on behind the curtain can be two very different characters.

[@TetsuRiken]

If you look at master manipulators they often hide thier ture selves in guises and play sides in ways that never draw attention to them hell if I were to try and rule the world or whatver I'd try to do it in a way that made it hard to identify me as the ruler by planing schemes that play on others and sit in a place both of insignificance and importance So basicly to everyone I am a nobody but in truth I hope everyone in my palm

[@Chad-Kratos-jf8zy]

it is canon, the devs have said it and it's not like they wrote "official novel" for nothing. And speaking of Athena in the novels, Athena is one of the primary characters along with Kratos, GoW1's primary characters are Athena and Kratos, while GoW2's primary characters are Athena Kratos and the Sisters of Fate. Primary Characters meaning, you can see their intentions, what they are thinking, it's written, it's not just dialogues from them. So whatever Athena THINKS is true to her scheme, where i get to my point, she did have good intentions, also as confirmed by devs many time, and she was corrupted by higher existence after dying. So this THEORY by TBP is a discarded theory.

[@ConnorLonergan]

A slight orrection, in GOW 2 Kratos and the Spartans are not invading Athens but the City of Rhodes. This however would not change the theory in any meanfuigl way though

[@resvolver]

12 yrs later, this game still shocks the hell outta me

[@TheCapitalLetterM]

The front thing of Ares having Kratos kill his family would hold water if it wasn't for ascension. Where it was directly said that Ares and the Furies devised three blood tasks, where Kratos kills his enemies, the innocent, and his family.

[@Metal0maniac98]

This is a cool theory. My headcanon was always that Athena was the mastermind behind the whole God of War Trilogy too but I didn't know this was an "unpopular" theory lol. Anyway great video as always.

[@wireboar7321]

It's actually pretty popular, at least when I was watching gow1-3 play throughs on chinese sites everyone was saying athena was tricking kratos and that she orchestrated it all

[@PerryKobalt]

@@wireboar7321 "Popular on Chinese Sites" Ofc

[@wireboar7321]

@@PerryKobalt go watch God of war playthroughs on bilibili and see for yourself, I watched 黑桐谷歌s playthrough of gow 1-3 years ago and people were saying that

[@aliid4339]

This is quite fitting, as, in my very limited knowledge of the greek pantheon, athena was the one that is destined to kill zeus, either directly or indirectly, so your video makes too much sense to pass off as coincidence or unintentional writing. In any case, great video.

[@frankkennedy6388]

But who truly won? Ares created the warrior to destroy the gods, while Athena just haunts Kratos now.

[@musicaleuphoria8699]

Well Kratos just ensured that no one won.

[@frankkennedy6388]

@@musicaleuphoria8699 Well technically he gave "cheese" to the people. With that "cheese" it is implied that somehow the Greeks survived and start rebuilding.

[@falconeshield]

Athena is the only Greek goddess to show up in Christian frescos if you know where to look, so technically, Athena won.

[@clay1430]

I like the idea of Athena being the lingering villain that haunts Kratos for the rest of time, but I don't think she had the intention of harming Olympus prior to the events of GoW 3. In her spirit form she must've figured out that there was alot more power in the world than her and her family ever imagined, so she worked with Kratos to obtain that power, and when he denied it to her she turned into the bitter spirit she is now.

[@luxzord865]

You could say that Kratos worst enemy was not his anger or his violent tendencies and everything that provoked him, it was that voice in his head that told him that he was justified in his actions, metaphorically and literally.

[@mupumupu2842]

Good video man, I really wouldn't worry about making this video even if others already have. Just like how one is free to interpret stories anyway they want, so too is anyone free talk about something someone already has.

[@darklanternstudios7691]

I am almost certain that Athena is the one making Odin so paranoid in the current trilogy, and that it was from her meddling that Tyr decided to work with Laufey to bring Kratos back into the fold so to speak (I haven't seen any Ragnarok spoilers, so this may be debunked already, but hey, one for the pile at that point).

[@FillmGeekOfDoom]

Minor spoilers for Ragnarok: Athena is not in this. Odin is acting of his own accord. She's dead.

[@darklanternstudios7691]

@@FillmGeekOfDoom I mean, I know she's dead, she's been dead since GoWII. But she showed up in GoW2018, so he ghost form is at least still around.

[@arno7163]

@@FillmGeekOfDoom But Odin did hear a voice telling him about the mask, and the mask and rift have the same colour as Athena's spirit form. As well as the mask having latin writing, which has a connection to greek writing

[@Poussyeater-w5e]

@@arno7163 hmm..

[@degenerateweeb1482]

Unfortunately there's no norse trilogy

[@ayodraws2720]

I actually believe your theory and it makes sense. She was seriously pissed at the end of gow 3

[@Ebi.Adonkie]

Clearly the seeds are there. She stopped Ares from killing him when he tried to fight for Damos, she actively assisted him in GOW 3. I've always thought this too

[@lonewolffang]

If I'm guessing right, Athena was planning it all along. In the first GOW she told Kratos about Pabdora's Box knowing the power inside it would corrupt the others and Kratos would kill then all off so she could take the throne. In GOW3 she spills the truth that the one thing inside Pandora's Box she was really after was hope, the one thing that would give her power over everything. So she planned it out day one.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

That’s why she said forgive me brother

[@zer0sgaming618]

On the note of Athena and Zeus having non corporeal forms it seems like it also might also be some relation to how they were the both killed the same way with the blade of Olympus the weapon that can drain godly power

[@GanonGhidorah]

So I mentioned it on that Ares video, that I once had a theory that Athena _really was_ behind Kratos' murdering his family and then pinning the blame on Ares, because this would ensure that not only would Kratos now turn on Ares, but he'd need to turn to the other gods for help. But still...I recently rewatched my own playthrough's of the God of War series...and I honestly don't see it happening. It's one of the main reasons why I _hated_ Athena's role in God of War 3. It doesn't feel like a mastermind lifting their mask...it feels like a complete 180 on her character; which is a shame, because so far the only ones that had happened to were Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades. But in God of War 2, despite how badly their characters changed, Athena stayed the same. She acted as a mediator between Kratos and the Olympians, and even warns him about what will happen if he keeps going. I mean to me, Athena's change in the 3rd game was worse than Gaia's - but at least with Gaia, you could get the sense that Kratos hasn't known her long - we only feel like we know her because she's the narrator, so we feel some emotional attachment to her. But it was clear even from the beginning that Gaia was manipulating Kratos. But with Athena...it hurts a little bit more, because we know that Athena is one of the few characters that _actually cares about Kratos._ I admit, her character relationship to Kratos received a bit of a face-lift; in God of War 1, she comes off as a bit of a cold-fish; sure she guides Kratos, but at the end when she reveals the truth, she says it rather coldly. In God of War 2, we see that she does genuinely concern herself with him. During his quest to the Fates, she reaches out to him and warn him to turn back, even hinting that Gaia is manipulating him. She didn't have to do that, but she did. And it's clear that Kratos cares for her in some way as well - for years, she was his only beacon of hope in his servitude - the lifeline that was his only escape from his nightmares. When she takes the attack meant for Zeus, Kratos is shocked by what he's done, expresses regret and even tries to comfort her in her last moments. Worse is, Ghost of Sparta shows that Athena cared for Kratos even more; I think that she always knew the secret of Kratos' lineage, whereas Ares clearly _didn't._ She protected Kratos from Ares that day as a boy, because she knew of their shared lineage. Let's see...Hercules accuses Kratos of being _Zeus' Favorite,_ when according to mythology, Athena holds that position. But Hercules' logic stems from the tasks and rewards that Kratos' received...and Athena was the one giving Kratos those tasks, as well as his rewards. I think on some level, Athena didn't want Kratos to be "discarded" like so many of Zeus' children...She took it upon herself to save him. But even beyond that, her familial connection to him is shown to cause a great deal of affection for him. At the end, when Kratos has lost all mortal ties, and she tells him that he can now be the God of War fully, Kratos _rejects her and threatens that Olympus will pay._ She now understands just how badly hurt Kratos is and the part she played in hurting him; she feels remorse over this, and asks that he - her brother - forgive her. (Mostly to herself after he left, I know.) It shows just how important that they are _family_ is to her. And I think that's why Athena tries to stop Kratos from killing Zeus. Let's face it, among the Olympians, who would actually _mourn_ for Ares? - apart from his own children, whom we never meet. And yet Athena says, "We Mourn the Death of our Brother." Maybe _she_ is the only one upset that Ares is dead, because despite their rivalry, she valued him as _family._ And the same for Kratos - _as a brother._ And finally, even Zeus - _as a Father._ I think on some level; Athena was trying desperately to keep her family from destroying itself. But then God of War 3 had to happen and ruin her character. The only way I can get over it is through the knowledge that her spirit was corrupted by the Evil of Greed from Pandora's Box - same as Zeus was corrupted by Fear. That's the only thing I will accept, because it's an outside force influencing a character. But still, Kratos' companion and the true villain of God of War 3, really should have been the most underutilized character in the series - _Hera._ She actually _is_ a master manipulator, has a _major-grudge_ against Zeus, and actually _would_ help Kratos kill him if it meant she could take over in his place. Why they just tossed Hera aside as a middle-aged, drunken, spinster is beyond me.

[@isauldron4337]

Yeah Hera had a good reason for resenting Zeus: his unfaithfullness

[@Yoxiv]

It certainly works better than "losing her body made her evil" as many assumed was the case with God of War 3, as it was rather bizarre how she was literally trying to save Zeus in the second game, and then telling Kratos to nuke Olympus in the third, which is only a matter of hours in-universe. Having Athena be evil, or at least manipulative with everyone else since the beginning certainly adds an interesting layer to her. Can only wonder if she'll ever appear within the series. Unless it's stated otherwise, we know that was her ghost taunting Kratos in the fourth game. And while she's absent in Ragnarok, nothing has suggested she's well and truly gone for good.

[@audricburris1487]

Going along with the theory, I feel it makes sense for her to have seen potential use in Kratos from the beginning, but what plans specifically developing later. And I don't think she had the idea of him overthrowing Olympus until after her death, otherwise it doesn't quite make sense why she'd give up her life for Zeus. I assume she wanted him to be quiet and obedient until she felt comfortable and able to get Hope from pandoras box and when she became a ghost she realized that Kratos was her easiest tool to do her bidding. All she needed to do was tell her dog to chase it's favorite ball

[@murilohumbertocmcb]

i find it cute how you try to fill the holes like the creators really cared about these things (that's a compliment)

[@billmcdermott9647]

I truly think that one day it will be between these two

[@Zoki4444]

The true ultimate antagonist of God of War was the Ship Captain. You all thought he was just a joke, but he'll be back, and he'll end us all.

[@thedredayshow9246]

"Is Kratos actually Crash Bandicoot" Yes. Yes he is.

[@bobbuilder155]

Athena reminds of all inspirational speakers coming out to speak indirectly about your convenient problem, as if they were pulling the strings beforehand to sabotage you from the start and acting like a hero to help you afterwards.

[@SuperKratosgamer]

No, Athena was not evil in 2, she ws corrupted by one of the evils of pandoras box after she died. She clearly cared for Kratos at some extent, she even apologised to him, fater she took Deimos, She warned him that Zeus would take action, she told him that the Titans where telling half truths, and sacrificed herself to stop Kratos to kill Zeus.

[@burnttoast.2017]

@@needleskanegirl3795 the sins clearly amplify what's already there, though. Zeus was fearful of the marked warrior prophecy before he was infested by the sin of fear, that's why he sent Athena and Ares down.

[@isauldron4337]

​@@burnttoast.2017 Yeah he was fearful before But the box of Pandora amplified his paranoia Interestingly there is unused dialogue in 3 where Zeus apologizes to Kratos and begs him to "release" him

[@HitmanHimself]

She was corrupted from the powers of higher existence, the director of the game himself confirmed.

[@HitmanHimself]

@@godzillazfriction No u lol

[@HitmanHimself]

@@godzillazfriction the director said she was good before death so yeah you are wrong.

[@Doctor_Odin]

Irl Athena is the daughter of Metis Zeus’s first wife, who Zeus ate to prevent his fall like his father before him. Which was prophesied that his next child by her would be the end of him. Athena was still born, but by removal from Zeus’s body.

[@firework1929]

Believe it, Odin says a spirit told him about the mysteries of the universe in the breach. Atena was playing around with him all along

[@BowtiesandBats]

(Spoilers) I thought the same! Maybe it's just because of her appearance in GOW4 and because the tears Odin wants to open are green like her spectral form, but it really feels like Athena is the controlling everything... again! Odin was obsessed with all forms of knowledge but his greatest desire was that to gain the knowledge of life after death for God/a way for a God to be truly immortal - which is what spirit Athena seems to have! It's an awesome theory to have the Greek Goddess of Knowledge be the one to tempt her 'sort of' Norse counter part into freeing her from whatever reality she's in... only to once again be stopped by Kratos- without him knowing too! Edit: Just checked, when the mask is introduced Loki says it isn't from the nine realms and then he reads: 'opsidani spitha' according to good ol' Google Translate detect language.... That's *fucking* *GREEK*! Yep it's Athena, she's the secret villain, this theory is confirmed in my heart!

[@RedStar441]

Athena's influence is far from gone. She'll return once the pieces have come together.

[@duckman7631]

option 2 doesnt make sense it was explained in ascension that three blood tasks were made for Kratos by the furies and Ares and one of them was kiling his family

[@AllardRT]

You know what, I'm going to adopt this theory as my headcanon because I really like it. Makes Athena's guidance of Kratos in GOW3 and her heel turn at the end not come out of left field.

[@SmoothAsFelt]

I played this game as a 10 year old because my friend who didn't have a playstation convinced his parents to let him buy it (when mine wouldn't) and then he brought it over to my house so we could play it together. I'd do the boss fights and puzzles, and he would do all the other fights/minibosses. To this day I think he got a raw deal but he was the one who suggested it. That aside, even as a 10 year old I remember feeling like Athena was our only friend. My naive mind was legitimately sad when she died, and by the end of GoW3 I was so conflicted because I felt like she was also one of the villains, but I didn't want to believe it. This video clarifies a lot of the long-lasting confusion that my vague memory of all those details in 6 games left me

[@nicknamelessking9616]

I have starting to think something similar for almost 4 years, i believe Athena tricked Kratos to destroy all the Olympus and Greece to rebuild them as the only ruler, part of my theory is that the gods were not gratuitously evil before the opening of Pandora's box, Gaia says that the gods attacked the titans for no reason, but the third game reveals us that Gaia lies to Kratos to have revenge against the gods, so her version is at least dubious, about Kratos's mother is possible that befor GoW she was brought to Atlantis to protect her from her son and after GoW she was cursed by Zeus because of the paranoia that took over him after the opening of the Box, the gods even gave a proper burial to Ares, who tried to kill them all, it doesn't seem so evil. Athena's plan is to use Pandora's box to get back the power of hope for herself so that she can rebuild Greece once destroyed in her own image, but why the gods would use Pandora's Box as their first resource? It makes no sense at all, then the elephant in the room: why Athena dies to motivate Kratos to destroy Olympus? She could not earn anything from her death, but let's think about the myth of Metis: Metis was Zeus' first wife, a prophecy foretold Zeus that his firstborn child would have defeated him, so he swallowed Metis whole to kill her, in some versions of the myth she was pregnant and gives birth inside of Zeus' head, in some others Athena is her reincarnation/other form, so Athena is thought dead by Kratos, but still lives inside him, that is why in GoW3 and after he is the only one interacting with her and the reason she wants Kraton alive at the end of GoW3, because if Kratos dies both die, this last theory has a particular possible outcome: Metis was a goddess of magic and cunning, so could her presence inside Kratos have influenced the powers of Loki, great wizard and god of mischief?

[@Poussyeater-w5e]

It makes perfect sense. Kratos is bound to throw down with her at some point, especially since he's returning to Greece. Quite fitting too that she didn't make an appearance at all in Ragnarok. Edit: it also ties in with the original idea for GoW 3, of there being one true God.

[@doomdestructer-t5630]

Would explain why in the new god of war Kratos shows hatred and dislike for Athena when she shows in his head. He realizes she used him, explaining “I am your monster no longer”

[@0shawhat]

Wake up babe, new Tactical Bacon Productions video

[@Ehliaz]

One point that I can't take off of my head, when Ares Kidnaped Daymos, Kratos recieve a mark, a scar, Ares marked him from the begining, its just that since Daymos had a birthmark we assume the tatoo is the equivalent.

[@cmurphy5258]

A new god of war vid? Fuck yes, Love the content man

[@ladyloo5341]

Athena might've plotted to overthrow Olympus with Ares using Deimos, hence why Deimos seemed to have put up a fight against Kratos and why he was armed with a gauntlet. When Ares found out that Deimos was a dud, he resented Athena hence why he was attacking Athens from the first game. He knew that Kratos was the one hence why Ares chose him as his champion for the race of Ambrosia and as his own avatar. It was also weird of her to suggest the pandora's box to Kratos since that was out of their plan. Zeus even got mad at Hephaestus because the box was supposed to be safe on Kronos' back. Keep in mind that this was before the evils of the box corrupted the gods. Hence why it was impossible that Athena was driven by the evils of Pandora's box. She then found out that the prophecy of the marked warrior wasn't from any birthmark, she found out that the marked warrior refers to many marks that will drive a warrior to take down Olympus. The marks refer to a tattoo in tribute to a lost sibling, an ashen skin to a slain family, and a large scar on the guts from the betrayal of his own kin. Hence why she was always "guiding" Kratos. The fact Kratos says "I am your monster no longer" confirms that even Kratos knew Athena was behind it all along. Another thing is, when he said, "My vengeance, ends now." in God of war 3, even though Zeus was already dead, at that moment, he DID find out that it was Athena behind all of it and was refusing to take revenge because he knows that vengeance will only bring destruction in its wake.

[@markhirsch6301]

Your videos on these games, and PlayStation exclusives particularly made me so interested that I actually bought a renewed PS2 and 3 and exclusives or console exclusives for them. Whether it be dark cloud 2, of which I had growing up, or finally playing the other PS2 ratchet games, and throwing in champions of Norrath for good measure really made me appreciate what I grew up with more

[@isauldron4337]

Athena's voice actress said that athena was indeed trying to help the world, but un the end decided to take it over

[@falconeshield]

She Robespierre'd herself

[@kiko6217]

Not to be all “I’m SmArT” but I kind of always figured Athena to be the true villain. Not in the sense of she plotted every detail in the story but more of a Emperor Palpatine and knew what buttons to push to get our Anakin (Kratos) to fulfill his plan.

[@johndodo2062]

Well she is the only one to show up in 2018. Makes sense to me. Became pretty obvious at the end of 3 that it was her behind everything

[@FillmGeekOfDoom]

She's not really there. Kratos is hallucinating out of guilt. Same as in GOW 3.

[@BlackViperGX]

@@bannedmann4469 agreed they are really lacking in story but the dialogue is hideous, they lost all that epic style of delivering their lines, they went the generic movie and lame jokes.

[@antoniogomes7636]

@@BlackViperGX kratos became a generic character with an ordinary ending to such a well writen story

[@hawk5394]

@@BlackViperGX bruh their are no new GOW writers their the same

[@EchoDragonHawk]

@@FillmGeekOfDoom false she was actually there in Gow 3 idk where you heard that lol

[@richizzle39]

Her showing up in 2018 in the way she does could be evidence for this theory as well. “Athena! Give out of my head!” Like Kratos knows he was manipulated.

[@jamses4532]

I like the thematic reasoning that the end of 3 is Kratos finally doing the right(?) thing to escape the gods' machinations. The theory also re-evaluates what the game title means. in the first it's Ares, second is Kratos, and third would be Athena. That might be what the writers/developers where thinking when they were working on 3.

[@Wolfsinn]

You are sooooo close to figuring it out. The one thing you are missing is that wisdom does not have to be linear in nature. instead of option A, B, or C it can be all of them. The wisest chess player knows how to create situations wherein no matter what others do, it will benefit you one way or another. Sparing Kratos at the beginning, for example, could have been one of a dozen such /possible/ plays. and at each stage along the way, grooming the environment for her own success.

[@requiem6465]

Yep a real chessmaster positions themselves so that no matter what, every option the enemy has is a net negative for them.

[@chefboiardeeznutz9881]

I'm really late on this, but I've believed the "mark" for the marked warrior, wasn't so much his tattoo that he got, but the scar that Ares gave him. That's really what started things in my opinion. They say "marked warrior" but a mark could be anything, like a scar.

[@kingofeverything8833]

Incredible analysis. A friend of mine mentioned back in 2010 that Athena was the villain. I just never saw it from his angle but after watching this I now understand what he was alluding to way back in 2010

[@sev1120]

For how GOWN3 leads to GOW 4 (aka GOW 2018), there's two key details that come into play: One - Kratos' curse where he cannot take his own life is still active, which explains how he survived stabbing himself with the blade of Olympus. However, it was weak enough to where he released the power of hope. Two - Athena still dogs his steps, waiting for the perfect moment to taunt him. When his own attempts to protect his son result in Atreus being on the brink of death, and he's forced to use the blades of chaos once more. That's when she taunts him about how he's nothing more than a Monster. The old Kratos would have raged at her, but the new kratos, wisened by time, only responds by saying he is "her monster no longer". I believe it's this point, when he fully denounces Athena and ignores her, that is when she finally fades, because there is nothing left for her to latch on to. Not the guilt, not the fury.

[@jeepamir508]

10:32 - why exactly? We all know about the hubris of the gods. And Zeus is so selfish and self-confident that he probably thought it was all his doing, but then again, Athena is a master trickster. To put a thought into other god's mind is like a child's play for her.

[@Tydusis1]

My theory has some wild spoilers for Ragnarok: we are not done with Athena. . . . . . . When we see the rift that Odin is studying, it has that same odd green hue that Athena does after she come back from "the higher plane" in GoW3. Maybe she, her peers, or her higher-ups, were manipulating Odin. Odin says the rift whispered to him and he called it "incomprehensible." That implies that, if my theory is right, Odin is lesser to Athena, or at least where she is now. Which made him just as manipulatable as Kratos was. Which raises a very interesting question: was Kratos and Atreus showing up planned, as the Jotun's foresaw, or were they a wrinkle in Creation's/The Higher Plane's plans?

[@AmyraCarter]

♫Master! Master! Master of Puppets, I'm pulling your strings! Twistin' your mind, and smashing your dreams!♫

[@elmaster48]

Personally I have my own theory on Athena, I think that Athena in the god of war universe was good, and probably that goodness is why she was given the task of sealing the evils of the world in pandora box, probably if other god tried they would get completely corrupted, probably her wise nature made her mind impervious to any attempt at corruption. Now, at what I want to get with this? That when Kratos opened pandora box it caused the corruption of the gods… but not Athena. There is even a point on god of war 2 (that would disprove your theory a little) where Kratos finds a room with statues of the Greek pantheon, the statue of Athena is begging Kratos to stop his quest and says that Gaia is an untrustworthy manipulator… she isn’t lying, Gaia betrays Kratos at the first chance in god of war 3, and in GoW 2 when Kratos kills the last spartan and lose all hope Gaia appears in a vision in the form of Kratos wife in order to encourage him. I think is because of Athena having a good nature she felt horrible for the kidnapping of Deimos, so she became the one to contact kratos to do the missions from the gods and later made sure to protect Kratos from consequences from his actions during his reign as god of war. Zeus got fed up with that and decided to kill kratos instead of making Athena deal with him. At the point where Kratos reach the room with the statues of the goods Athena is still sympathetic for Kratos, trying to convince him to stay away from Gaia and trying to convince him to not go to war against Olympus, she knows how devastating that would be. And as we know Kratos goes back in time and was close to killing Zeus, in that moment Athena finally decided to put aside her guilt and fight Kratos and protect Olympus even if it costed her life. Now. My theory is that after she died Hades got a hold of her soul, why? Remember that kratos killed Persephone? Yeah, isn’t difficult to guess that he would try to revive her. It seems that resurrect a god (a proper god, not a Demi god) is extremely difficult. And hades decided that instead of doing dangerous experiments with his beloved wife soul, he decided to use Athena soul to see if his ritual, magic or whatever Can resurrect gods, if doesn’t work I don’t think Zeus would notice, specially with the war with the titans happening at the time. I think that would explain why he is chilling at his palace in the underworld rather than fighting the titans. Anyways, the resurrection of Athena didn’t went as expected and she resurrected as some kind of ghost, in that ghost form I think that whatever protection she had from the evils of pandora box no longer worked and she got corrupted. It was then that she became ambitious and decided to use Kratos to destroy Olympus. So yeah, I say that Athena became evil because of the evils of pandora box, but not when Kratos opened it but instead when she resurrected.

[@ConkerVonZap]

Athena wants to take out Odin now 😯

[@GaryJojo]

I've always been a fan of this theory as well because it makes the ending of 3 much more satisfying and falls more on the Gods own hubris. Athena really believed that helping the man whose life she helped destroy would just make him go along with her ways. He's made a knack for disobeying Gods and he finally got to end his own life, at least for a little while anyway. While I don't believe she accounted for every single detail as well, she horribly misread Kratos thinking he's just going to go along with her plans. Also might be a little nitpicky here but if Zues does represent the Gods as their King, I don't think it really matters all that much if Athena tells Kratos it was only Zues who chose not spare him or really was a council of them. But either way, Zues saying "my way is the way of the Gods" would either have Kratos put 2 and 2 together that it was him or just more focus on wanting to kill Zues even more since he does kill Kratos right after. Not trying to be rude or anything but I just love details like that and trying to solve mysteries in character dialogs and subtext and all that fancy literature stuff is fun to me so wanted to put this out there. Either way, I think Zues would've said it was his decision either way if Kratos would have asked just because Zues would be a dick like that. Playing to Zues' and Ares' ego was probably Athenas best choices.

[@yeahmhmmrightokaymhmmyeahsure]

I've been saying this for the longest, glad someone finally made a video on this! I always felt like she was egging Kratos on, and she was the main one lying to him constantly, knowing what drives him

[@ayoCC]

That's so cool like The purpose of the sword is to collect the powers of all the gods and give it to the last man standing.

[@dethbedsmolzwhent.t6498]

At the end of GOW 3 I was luling because I assumed Kratos had her figured out and was gonna kill her spirit. The only thing that caught me off guard was Kratos stabbing himself :|

[@rickygilbert7204]

I believed Kratos didn't killed the titan (Thera) in Ghost of Sparta. Kratos just released Thera from inside the volcano. Also yes Athena did have motive behind her support for Kratos in gow 3.

[@Marcos-gb5hd]

I don't care this is cannon to me now

[@alexrider2905]

This would explain why kratos denounced Athena in God of war 2018 when he got the cane's of Olympus back it would also explain why she didn't want hime to stab himself in God of war 3

[@maddan9086]

Huh. Although this theory really is tinfoil hat territory, I do have to admit that I find myself intrigued by it. Not to mention that Athena is still out there, and a few other Gods of Olympus are still unaccounted for. Like Artemis and Apollo, since the former appeared in GoW1, and the latter's been referenced but never seen. And the fact that it was confirmed by the GoW studio that two of the three Sisters of Fate aren't dead, but merely trapped in a portion of space-time (a la Phantom Zone). Makes one wonder if those loose threads will ever be addressed. Oh~! Also, you absolutely MUST play GoW Ragnarök! I simply cannot WAIT to see and hear your thoughts and impressions on it. Barrow it, buy it used, do whatever needed to get it, because in my humble opinion it is well worth it.

[@ebiwashere3720]

Your intro is so good

[@GamingDojang]

Kratos very well may be Crash Bandicoot

[@callmev3531]

Given the idea of Evils infecting the Olympians, her mention of Greed as well as Fear, the Evil infecting Zeus, and the idea of the Olympians being treacherous and corrupt to a lesser degree before their infection, it can be inferred Athena at least had ideas about supplanting the other Olympians, perhaps before not out of greed or ambition, but due to seeing their deficiencies as rulers of the world and deeming them unworthy of their status as gods.

[@montywh]

one of Kratos' stories in Ragnarok goes over the prophecies in the original trilogy. as he put it, during the time he betrayed Ares (and according to comments, this takes place during Ascension, which i haven't played yet), and sought out an oracle. the oracle claimed that the God of War would topple Olympus, so he was charged to kill Ares and prevent that, not knowing he would take Ares' place. Kratos calls it a self-fulfilling prophecy. at the same time, with what happens in the psp games when we find out about Deimos, and how a marked warrior was to topple Olympus, it just sounds to me that Kratos should've died when he threw himself off the cliff. maybe then the Gods would've still been around. either that or just NOT appoint him as the new God of War and did what they promised with his nightmares

[@mightybryan1033]

Kratos became the marked warrior as soon as ares attacked him so Athena probably did know that they took the wrong one. Plus she already knew Zeus was his father

[@elviraweekes3906]

Damn you are smart even if this theory is probably not right but, it is the best one I’ve seen in a while!

[@Nightbanekaizer]

I haven't seen other videos covering this topic so don't worry about it. I enjoyed this theory and to be honest I also thought this was a possibility after beat GOW 3 and seeing Athena's return in GOW PS4. In that game Kratos specifically says he is not her monster anymore.

[@KykyDJenkins]

I can't wait to see your theories on Ragnarok and it's predecessors. Especially since Athena showed up and condemned Kratos; showing that she's still around and probably has a plan for the future. But if anyone hasnt seen or played Ragnarok (spoilers) In the end of the game, it's not Kratos who dies in Loki/Atreus's arms; it was Odin. And with the end of the Norse Saga, the devs said they would be ending it immediately in this game rather than saying they were ending the entire series of the game as a whole. So we may get more info on Athena's plans in the next.

[@lostnemesis]

You have the dialogue that was cut out of the game from Zeus while kratos was beating him to death in God of war 3 where he gets a moment of clarity which then lends more Credence to the idea that she was affected by Pandora's box and apparently through one of the comments here the wiki agrees.

[@isauldron4337]

It would fit perfectly with the finale of god of war 3 that athena was also corrupted After all she didn't notice until zeus was dead

[@chernosmarket6294]

3:42 probably the only one hip that was a Vince McMahon reference

[@KarmaxKarma]

Lmao the “DID HE PLAN THIS?” thumbnail

[@wellingtonjunior6524]

The evils of pandora's box affected all the gods so she would be one of them. Plus, the prophecy in Gow GoS Shows that she had the intention of controlling Kratos so he would not destroy olympus, with the opening of pandora's box, she would manipulate Kratos into destroying olympus so she would become the only god around having total control. My pov of athena's character: She was a manipulative god since the beginning, the box only worsen this trait like thebother gods, Zeus became afraid and paranoid, Hercules jealous, aphrodite lustful,etc.

[@hurricane7727]

In Gow Gos both She and Ares Kidnapped Kratos Brother when he was Little. They have been messing with Kratos before he was Even a Spartan General.

[@wellingtonjunior6524]

@@hurricane7727 yep

[@shuaibsaleem569]

I've been saying this for years. Athena's real goals become clear after Kratos stabs himself and she realises that Kratos knows hope is in himself and he's released it to humanity, freeing them from worshipping Olympus desperately.

[@sloop_3522]

This actually makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels beyond whats even mentioned in this video. This is canon to me.

[@SwagimirPutin]

I always saw Athena as a god that wanted to become 'God'.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

So luicifer but female

[@mazenh7934]

not until #kratos does have a word with athena , alll in a GodOfWar movie finale ?

[@loganengland8588]

I never thought Of her as a villain ( until 3 ) but I always thought it was so out of character with how she acts in GoW3. Like didn’t you just sacrifice yourself to save Zeus and now your helping us kill him? “ I’ve reached a high plane of understanding “ buuuuuullll shit I say. Never did go any further then that but your video made me a believer. Now we just gotta wait and see if she’s back in Ragnarok.

[@Reyd0r]

Everybody tends to focus on the marks Kratos painted on himself to honor his brother... ...but everyone forgets that a scar is mark too.

[@TBP]

Man, I got plenty of scars that I don't remember what I did to get them.

[@Reyd0r]

@@TBP you must relate to Kratos quite well then lmao. Kinda fitting though that the only scars he seems to keep are the ones induced by his family.

[@jamesbrick250]

This theory/headcanon doesn't makes sense though, Athena was along with the other Gods was being corrupted by evils of Great War when Kratos opened the box for the first time. It's only obvious we seen Athena being corrupted by God of War 3 although she's in spirit form.

[@zDaven]

With Athena being in GoW 2018 and a LOT of things pertaining to her in GoW 3 not being explained, I feel like this would make a lot of sense.