The True Distance of a Typical Gunfight

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Lucky Gunner Ammo

Lucky Gunner Ammo

Күн бұрын

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@bradkeeling3053
@bradkeeling3053 3 жыл бұрын
1/13/2015 I worked at a convenience store three armed men came in late one night.And they began shooting and I fired back killed 2 the 3rd one ran away. The distance was Around 10 feet. I didn’t have time to look at my sites. I practiced point shooting at that distance twice a month. Practice saved my life.
@derrickrr5516
@derrickrr5516 10 ай бұрын
I looked you up. If you really are Brad Keeling, I’m glad you made it. You did an outstanding job. Seems odd they went after the other two for murder but I guess they were more responsible for the two men dying than anyone else, other than the two men themselves. Did your gun get taken away forever?
@haveaday1812
@haveaday1812 10 ай бұрын
I’ll take things that never happened for 20 Alex.
@jasons5916
@jasons5916 10 ай бұрын
@@derrickrr5516 When you commit armed robbery any deaths that happen because of the incident are legally your fault. You could be the getaway driver, never enter the store or touch a weapon and be charged for murder if your accomplices kill someone, someone has a heart attack, ect.
@robertkwiatkoski1292
@robertkwiatkoski1292 9 ай бұрын
Mr. Ron, ( gun store owner, cowboy action. Korean Veteren, One of our founding fathers of or county gun range) said don't put anything on it that will slow it down and just look at the back of the gun.
@rodvan-zeller6360
@rodvan-zeller6360 9 ай бұрын
Glad you made it. Also, I think you will agree with me that under that type of threat the brain will not let you close one eye, and the pupils dilate due to adrenal stress making it impossible to focus on something close to your face such as the sights on the gun. 100% in agreement with you that training point shooting is what saved your life.
@michaeldehart648
@michaeldehart648 3 жыл бұрын
Retired LEO here. Very good video. In about 1979-80 I was on the DPS range in Austin, Tx listening to Reeves Jungkind, the DPS instructor. He talked about the "typical" gunfight. I'll always remember that he mentioned a living room, a convenience store or even a lawn as the most likely place to be in a gunfight. Since then, from Jeff Cooper to many others throughout my 20 years it was brought home again and again. Think of the size of a room, anything from 5 to 20 feet. It will happen fast and violently and you may not be "gun in hand" when it starts. That's what most of my training focused on. Yeah, I shot some at 25yds and 15yds. But I wore it out at 10 yds and less. Your data seems to support that. Again, thanks for a very good video. Now the old man will shut up...but remember, I made to be an old man.
@MGlennRoss
@MGlennRoss 3 жыл бұрын
Fellow Austinite here, similar in age. What you say makes perfect sense.
@monteharrison1478
@monteharrison1478 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you made it to be an old man, sir.
@jwash3rd
@jwash3rd 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I was robbed at gunpoint several times, and every time it was within ten feet.
@paulgrogan8032
@paulgrogan8032 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mr DeHart, I found your offering to the discussion both informative and interesting👍 In addition Thank you for your service and congrats on your determination to retire to your family 🙏👏🇺🇸💥
@enzothebaker22
@enzothebaker22 3 жыл бұрын
Old age...always earned, never given.
@pauljenkins6877
@pauljenkins6877 3 жыл бұрын
In what often seems like an increasingly fact-free world, Chris’s rational and evidence-based videos are a breath of fresh air.
@ScoobyFermentation
@ScoobyFermentation 3 жыл бұрын
Next up - “The true probability of ever being in a gun fight.”
@ClericalConsequences
@ClericalConsequences 3 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@xVictorDavidx
@xVictorDavidx 3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree and I take the boldness to add that the effort required to research and study all that data, and then organize it in a line of thought is not an easy job. Invaluable indeed!
@snek9353
@snek9353 3 жыл бұрын
@@ScoobyFermentation Yup, and vs the probability of a ND.
@farstrider79
@farstrider79 3 жыл бұрын
@@ScoobyFermentation Careful, might talk yourself out of spending thousands of dollars of guns and accessories if you think about it..........
@yoda4536
@yoda4536 2 жыл бұрын
Most gunfights happen at conversational distance...because it's conversation that starts most gunfights!
@Devon-tj4uc
@Devon-tj4uc 10 ай бұрын
Or robbery, makes sense.
@BruceCross
@BruceCross 3 ай бұрын
@@Devon-tj4uc True, robbery isn't a conversation, it's a demand and the threat of violence.
@mcedd54
@mcedd54 3 жыл бұрын
Another fine video from Chris. Thanks! I am retired from the US Army and also retired from Brinks Inc. On my initial training with Brinks in Washington DC our instructor was a retired captain from the DC police dept. During the classroom phase he quoted FBI statics from that time, roughly 1994. He stated that most compiled data from gunfights throughout the US involving law enforcement took place at 10 feet or less, involved an average of three rounds fired and were over in 3 seconds or less. Later on, roughly 8 years, I attended the Brinks firearms instructor training course in Dallas, Texas. The stated FBI statistics on gunfights had remained almost identical to the 1994 numbers. Whether your defensive handgun is MOS equipped or not is certainly a personnel choice. However, with the quoted statistics above, having an optic mounted handgun to be used in real world situations would seem, to me at least, to be unnecessary. Clearing your holster cleanly, getting that front sight on target quickly and getting a center mass first round hit with follow-up seems to be the goal here.
@lynnkramer1211
@lynnkramer1211 7 ай бұрын
I think that 7 yard (21ft,) distance came from FBI analysis of how far a perpetrator can lunge and make contact with a victim with a knife, not necessarily a gun or other hand weapon. This is something taught to LEOs in training, i.e. letting a suspect within 21 feet is too close to defend against if the perp produces a knife and stabs the LE.
@IronSharpensIron127
@IronSharpensIron127 4 ай бұрын
If it is that close up good I don't need the most. But to say it is unnecessary is asinine. You cannot say that there is 100% no chance of ever needing one
@warnerchandler9826
@warnerchandler9826 2 ай бұрын
​@@IronSharpensIron127He did not say they were unnecessary. He said that in his opinion they seem unnecessary.
@IronSharpensIron127
@IronSharpensIron127 2 ай бұрын
@@warnerchandler9826 that's a cool story
@cympimpin20
@cympimpin20 3 жыл бұрын
This is the best firearms channel on YT. Simple second long uncluttered intro, no bravado or over the top theatrics or jokes, no shilling for Raid Shadow Legends. Just a quick intro then nothing but calm clear dissemination of facts. I wish all channels were like this.
@silentnight4
@silentnight4 3 жыл бұрын
The overwhelming majority of lethal assaults are up close and personal - within a few feet. I know. A couple of teenagers attempted to rob me while I was leaving a liquor store parking lot pay phone at Manchester and Stanford in Los Angeles in 1973. I turned. They were there. One of them barked, "Give it up." I stupidly put my fists up expecting a fistfight. One of them pulled out a gun and shot me in the chest (it sounded like a firecracker). I looked down and saw a red dot in the vicinity of my heart. They ran off. I drove myself to Martin Luther King Hospital and woke up two days later in ICU. They had to cut me open to remove the bullet. I've carried around a 12 inch scar and drainage hole scars ever since. Thankfully I survived and made a complete recovery. Think about it. Most robberies take place at a close distance because your opponent: 1) is trying to get the jump on you, 2) needs to be close enough to issue a verbal order, and 3) close enough for you to hand over your wallet or other valuables. That doesn't happen at a significant distance. That would be an entirely different scenario that would give you an opportunity to take cover and make the threat (an accurate shot from a generally untrained thug) more difficult to execute. For me that means: 1) avoid areas in bad neighborhoods where that is more likely to happen, 2) carry a second, throw-away wallet if someone gets the jump on you, 3) be prepared to draw your weapon and shoot as quickly as possible (probably without using your sights) if absolutely necessary. This is a situation where if you choose to respond to the threat with a gunshot - fractions of a second make all of the difference. A situation where an exchange of gunfire at a distance is much less likely. That would probably only arise if you happened to not be the immediate target such as a parking lot or workplace incident, etc. In that case you would, of course, have to start making quick decisions about who the actual source of danger was and whether or not you were legally and morally justified in using lethal force at a distance. That's an entirely different and much less likely scenario. If the nature of the dispute is not absolutely clear you can't just start blasting people. You need to take cover until you figure it out and if the police show up you need to put your weapon on the ground and have your empty hands in plain sight. The number one rule? The best gun fight to have is the one that you avoid.
@hoppinggnomethe4154
@hoppinggnomethe4154 9 ай бұрын
Man, you survived. You were blessed.
@michaelhirz208
@michaelhirz208 8 ай бұрын
Having a throw away wallet I a great idea that I have NEVER heard of before! I'm going to start carrying one ! THANK YOU !!!
@fjb4932
@fjb4932 8 ай бұрын
Being within driving distance of Any Martin Luther King is the 1st sign to be in condition Yellow, and possibly Red. You're known by the hood you're in . . . ☆
@silentnight4
@silentnight4 8 ай бұрын
@@fjb4932 Yes. I moved from LA to murder city (Detroit, MI) and no one has said boo to me in Detroit for 45 years now. I actually ran into a Nazi cell (singing the Horst Wessel song in German) in the Firestone Sheriffs in LA. Different vibe altogether.
@coyoteblue9733
@coyoteblue9733 7 ай бұрын
So ONE incident 50 YEARS ago qualifies you to posit what THE MAJORITY of gunfights looks like
@Mrgunsngear
@Mrgunsngear 3 жыл бұрын
solid discussion
@lancecahill5486
@lancecahill5486 3 жыл бұрын
The thing that you have to take into consideration is that criminals don't typically announce or show their intentions to rob or assault you until they get close, mostly to secure the element of surprise. That would be probably within a few feet of your position.
@scottstewart5784
@scottstewart5784 3 жыл бұрын
but also consider being in the home and woken top to a burglar breaking a window - you control the distance
@andershilmo1866
@andershilmo1866 Жыл бұрын
I would agree everyone’s lifestyle differs. And everyone’s area is different. I am in the country a lot distance can be much greater, Also if your in shooting hogs I prefer shooting them at a distance even though, I have shot them very close. When in the city adjust accordingly. It’s pretty simple to train to to 3- 5 yards. And we all should. But can we make good hits out farther. Most of the farther out shots will be to help a friend or family member. Not a shot I want to miss.
@CowboyJuice
@CowboyJuice 10 ай бұрын
Eh you're looking at one crime that is actually relatively rare. You're more likely to get in a gun fight over an argument
@danqodusk8140
@danqodusk8140 10 ай бұрын
Absolutely! Criminals don't typically advertise their intent, they simple pop up from behind an obstruction. We all have heard the recommendation to be aware of our surroundings, and that's certainly good advice, it may allow us to spot stupid or rookie criminals, but seasoned criminals are far more cunning and will seemingly appear out of nowhere. How does one prepare for a problem that hasn't been detected?
@bunk95
@bunk95 9 ай бұрын
Criminals are fictional. Someone lied about with that fiction?
@flaco5581
@flaco5581 3 жыл бұрын
2 points... 1 even if we had the average locked in there is still no guarantee that your fight will be average. 2 I'd rather be the guy who trains at 30 yards and gets in a fight at three than the guy who trains at three yards and gets in a fight at thirty.
@boomerisadog3899
@boomerisadog3899 3 жыл бұрын
I try to practice at different ranges, it keeps it fresh.
@rafschar
@rafschar 3 жыл бұрын
I agree 100%
@bryanmcdermott4204
@bryanmcdermott4204 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent point. John Corriea echoed something similar recently with regard to mass casualty events. When I started carrying it was with a Ruger .357 LCR (5 shot snubbie). That was great if an ATM issue is the most likely threat. Now I go with a CZ PCR for the longer sight radius and capacity.
@snek9353
@snek9353 3 жыл бұрын
Yup, excellent points. Just don't ignore the 3 and in aspect either. Retention, point, and single hand shooting need to be considered as well. If all you do is train 30 yards doing two handed arms extended out front shooting, then you'll be unprepared for the close fight.
@Zoco101
@Zoco101 3 жыл бұрын
Of course it's useful to shoot straight at 30 yards, but it's just a low priority in my book. I would place that priority after shooting straight at 7 yards, getting the quickest draw, retaining your weapon and firing from assorted awkward positions, including weak side. I suspect you're more likely to get shot with your own pistol (that got taken off you) than shot from 30 yard, unless you're a bystander hit by a stray. But to be fair, the red dot comes into its own at 15 yards (doesn't it?) and that's a more credible scenario, though still less common than closer.
@Jason-iz6ob
@Jason-iz6ob 3 жыл бұрын
I’ve been in 2 gunfights. My first I had a pistol and the felon had a pistol and a butcher knife. That was about 20 yards. The second I had an AR-15, with a red dot, and the felon had a pistol. That was almost exactly 50 yards. As you said though distances are skewed. For one I was able to go back later and measure mine, myself. I didn’t have to rely on someone else’s estimate. Which is usually what makes it in the record. My lawyer on my 50 yard shooting guessed that it was 15........ And he had been to the scene shortly after it happened and was allowed to walk around inside the crime scene tape. Those were both law enforcement shootings. But I’ve had a lot of friends with similar experiences. Most happen much further away than people realize. The friends of mine who have been very close, and in some cases also been shot, or stabbed, themselves during the fight, have been as you also mentioned in the act of wrestling with someone trying to get handcuffs on them. Not a concern for a citizen. For off duty carry I tend to look at all the shootings I’ve been a part of investigating though. WELL over 100. In 22 years it’s Probably closer to 300. Of those some were citizens shooting felons. But most were felons shooting other felons. Decent citizens don’t really need to worry about what will happen when the drug deal goes bad at 1 yard..... Unfortunately some have also been felons shooting unarmed citizens. In those I think you should expect to be within 5-7 yards. Although in my first iron sight shooting I remember being about 3 rounds in before I realized I was shooting. In the second I just concentrated on keeping the bouncing red dot center mass. So that big blazing red dot in your vision counts for something.
@kuessebrama
@kuessebrama 2 жыл бұрын
It is not really important but how can someone think 50 yards are only 15 i mean it is a really big difference. 15 yards is nearly nothing in comparison from 50 yards a person begins to look really small. Yeah but the thing is self defence shootings are not happening at 50 yard in 99% of cases when you are not an officer, i mean if someone would shoot at me from 50 yards i would probably shoot back a few times and try to run away. Most of the time a citizen have to defend him self it is because of a robbery or somethink like that an in that case a red dot does not really to much because it is at a so short distance that you are not really need to aim through your sight it is enough to point the gun in the direction. So for law enforcement it is maybe a good think but for "normal" people it is not necessary but it does not hurt to have a red dot neither.
@kennethcurtis1856
@kennethcurtis1856 Жыл бұрын
@@kuessebrama In most cases, I would think, a person would have a hard time claiming self defense at 50 yards.
@SA-xf1eb
@SA-xf1eb 11 ай бұрын
Good information. Glad won the fight.
@kevingridermissionair8020
@kevingridermissionair8020 10 ай бұрын
If they are shooting at you at 50 yards...it is self defense
@TheGreatAmphibian
@TheGreatAmphibian 10 ай бұрын
@@kevingridermissionair8020 Hence the “in most cases.” But that is incredibly rare.
@Zundfolge
@Zundfolge 3 жыл бұрын
Ultimately no matter what handgun you carry for self defense, if you ever actually need it you're going to wish it was an M4 ... And you had a unit of Marines backing you up ... and one of them was on the radio calling in an air strike.
@TheJBerg
@TheJBerg 3 жыл бұрын
Amen
@BEATINU2000
@BEATINU2000 3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha!
@ProjectExMachina
@ProjectExMachina 3 жыл бұрын
Or... Wish to be somewhere else 😆
@Boomy2nicce
@Boomy2nicce 10 ай бұрын
Me an actual FO yes it’s amazing to have that 30 lb ASIP to call an Apache to wreak havoc
@theunknownatheist3815
@theunknownatheist3815 6 ай бұрын
Not sure I want an air strike on my own house! 😂
@jasonk3038
@jasonk3038 3 жыл бұрын
Chris, I just wanted to thank you. I have been watching you for years, and I really appreciate your work. I have learned a heck of a lot from you, and enjoy your informative and very interesting topics. The LG channel is a invaluable resource for the firearms community. Well done.
@hartsickdisciple
@hartsickdisciple 3 жыл бұрын
I can't see a red dot being particularly useful inside of 5 yards. The most important thing would be to have a round in the chamber.
@DWalter.27
@DWalter.27 3 жыл бұрын
I think the better question is does it hurt? And the answer, based on my experience, is no. At that point, it's personal preference.
@areyou0k98
@areyou0k98 3 жыл бұрын
@@DWalter.27 an optic, is more weight, more profile to try to conceal, and adding an electronic device to worry about to your firearm.
@areyou0k98
@areyou0k98 3 жыл бұрын
@Erozpl01 01 and people have had optics glass pop out, the sight falls off, battery runs out. There's always gonna be that one wild story that happened to one person that one time. One guy said there's no added baggage to carrying an optic but there are, weight/ weapon profile/ and worrying about scratching your glass/ optics failing etc. I have both a pistol with and without, but don't fool yourself into saying there's no negatives at all to a red dot
@burtbiggum499
@burtbiggum499 3 жыл бұрын
@@areyou0k98 Just get height sights then. If its too bug for you specifically then dont carry it. Nobody cares what you carry nor will they notice.
@user-ef4gf7rr9r
@user-ef4gf7rr9r 3 жыл бұрын
@@areyou0k98 My concern would be getting it hooked on your shirt. But I've never run a red dot on a pistol, so I'm in no position to actually think that other than in the abstract.
@gscop1683
@gscop1683 3 жыл бұрын
The FBI training stats are often misunderstood or misquoted. Their LEO gunfight distance stat focuses on 21 feet (7yds), not because that is the distance of the entire gunfight, but because that is the distance where a very high percentage of officers are fatally wounded (kill zone). Nice job as always ! Thanks !
@Jleitte
@Jleitte 7 ай бұрын
As a retired LEO, the 21-foot rule was self-defense for knife-edge assault. In other words, an officer can be stabbed before he can draw his weapon and fire. I have been advised that the rule has now been extended.
@thedirtbag7
@thedirtbag7 3 жыл бұрын
"The FBI has been telling us for decades that the mean average distance of a lethal confrontation is 7 yards"
@NikkyElso
@NikkyElso 3 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure Paul uses law enforcement statistics which is a little bit of a flawed sample for civilians. I train in increments of 3, 5, 7, and 10 yards for my handguns. If I'm proficient at three yards with a gun, I'm comfortable relying on it as my bedside gun, if I'm good at five I'm comfortable carrying it. Anything more is just me showing off. (And I'm talking three to five round groups not just single shots btw)
@jasonschmidt9569
@jasonschmidt9569 3 жыл бұрын
The FBI says many things. They should stop speaking
@alanladams
@alanladams 3 жыл бұрын
Yes. Within 21 feet.
@alanladams
@alanladams 3 жыл бұрын
@@jasonschmidt9569 LMAO... Right.
@Ryan.......
@Ryan....... 3 жыл бұрын
@@NikkyElso My interpretation when he says that is that he is not suggest that statistic is accurate, but it is what we are told and he'll use it for demonstration purposes. I interpret it that way because of the somewhat mocking tone he has when he says it and his repeated discussions related to his distrust of statistics of that sort.
@definit1on119
@definit1on119 3 жыл бұрын
Dry fire is key regardless of sights used. Trex arms is a great training channel. They had a dude from Japan with no experience with firing real weapons but very experienced with dry fire practice out shooting established vets on the range.
@Evergreen1400
@Evergreen1400 3 жыл бұрын
That Japanese guy did really great for a 1st time real gun shooter but he had put in hundreds and hundreds of hours training with airsoft so he had pretty much all the muscle memory movements down he just needed to learn recoil management and how to not flinch during a mini explosion
@stovepipe8966
@stovepipe8966 3 жыл бұрын
You can’t dry fire enough and always add in drawing from awkward positions, moving , shooting from cover etc
@Able_Cylon
@Able_Cylon 3 жыл бұрын
I don’t care where he’s from, he shouldn’t be out shooting vets on the range, or anywhere for that matter…
@neonjim8
@neonjim8 3 жыл бұрын
@Texican Got a link for that video, please? There's a lot of videos on their page, thanks.
@jbuggy21
@jbuggy21 3 жыл бұрын
When shooting, it's natural to focus on results on target. But when dry firing, you're only focusing on technique...the fundamentals. I took a class from a guy that emphasized dry firing as the key. When I put it into practice, my jaw fell open when I saw how much better my shooting was the next time I was at the range. One thing he said has always stuck with me, "Shooting is just dry firing with recoil, noise, and results." I'm gonna check out Trex, thanks!
@jfowler7604
@jfowler7604 3 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown. I have had two threatening and potentially dangerous encounters in my life. Neither went completely south but both could have. Had engagement occurred, both would have been 5-7 yards. Both situations were in wilderness settings and I could have legally been carrying BUT WASN'T! In my later years (like now) I don't make that mistake.
@AlexLee-dc2vb
@AlexLee-dc2vb 3 жыл бұрын
Chris' messages at the end of these videos are what get me through the day
@ricardodiniz1439
@ricardodiniz1439 3 жыл бұрын
Me too...
@koozie83
@koozie83 3 жыл бұрын
So good.
@williamwaddell5587
@williamwaddell5587 3 жыл бұрын
Since my retirement from DoD, I have been teaching various shooting classes at a local range, including Arizona CCW. When I developed my Arizona CCW class, I used data that had been presented during some of my prior training at Gunsite, Pat Goodale's PFT, ITI Centerra, FLETC, and others. It had always bothered me that I was using data derived from law enforcement shootings, for the very reasons given in this video. Thank you for some thoughtful and well-articulated information that I can incorporate into my CCW classes.
@lazaruslazuli6130
@lazaruslazuli6130 6 ай бұрын
I would assert that 'situational awareness' at all times -when not in your home - would be one of, if not the most important, aspects of keeping yourself safe. If you turn a corner downtown and are already thinking 'what if someone tries to jump me' and you're already planning your response, then you are way ahead of the game. Probably the biggest factor would be to stay out of 'unsafe' areas of town all together. Being around bars and industrial areas at night is just asking for trouble.
@heathmarcum5390
@heathmarcum5390 10 ай бұрын
In 2015 i was standing in a gun and pawn shop talking to the owner. When 5 young men from a different state which only 30 mins away from this location. They got into a argument with the owner over a gun purchase and the transfer of it to there state that they didnt want to deal with. the whole time 1 of them stayed at the front door watching outside, there was a large gun safe for sale towards the back of the gun shop. I slowly worked my way behind it. I had a 1911 with 8+1 rounds. The guys eventually left when the owner threatened to call the police. I remember thinking if this goes down im gonna wish i had back up mags with me. If you carry keep this in mind cause there can always be more then 1 bad guy and they also tend to carry high cap mags as well.
@tonylittle8634
@tonylittle8634 3 жыл бұрын
Jack Wilson the Texas church security shooting was at least 30 feet (and a head shot).
@joebob617
@joebob617 3 жыл бұрын
A *moving* head shot to boot. I estimated the distance closer to 15 yards. Excellent shot.
@tonylittle8634
@tonylittle8634 3 жыл бұрын
@@joebob617 I had a hard time trying to establish distance. Like you said, excellent shot.
@parsecboy4954
@parsecboy4954 3 жыл бұрын
True, but it's very much an outlier
@jasonschmidt9569
@jasonschmidt9569 3 жыл бұрын
And good on him for keeping his composure to make that shot.
@namelessschool7616
@namelessschool7616 3 жыл бұрын
This is awesome. As a person who has tried to gather this info over the years, thanks for compiling all this. It's a lot of effort and it's much appreciated.
@hyperfocal2002
@hyperfocal2002 3 жыл бұрын
I'll go to what a friend of mine, who is a firearms instructor said. He said, a handgun in a reactive weapon used to save your life. If you expect a gun fight, always carry a rifle.
@francisbusa1074
@francisbusa1074 3 жыл бұрын
Like the old saw goes in law enforcement, "The purpose of your handgun is to allow you to fight your way back to your patrol vehicle to retrieve your long gun."
@Jammaster1972
@Jammaster1972 Жыл бұрын
Exactly, which is why a red dot on a pistol is probably one of the worst trends I've seen in the gun industry.
@Zoco101
@Zoco101 10 ай бұрын
But sadly, cops still rush into gunfights and probable gunfights leaving the long gun in the patrol vehicle. Maybe the long guns are too hard to extract - dunno. But there has to be a solution.
@thoughtfulobserver2263
@thoughtfulobserver2263 5 ай бұрын
@@Jammaster1972, the desire to be better prepared encourages folks to spend money, sometimes, on things that they don’t need. As does a pistol-mounted light just makes it less-likely to be carried and take longer to deploy. LEO’s should certainly carry both, but the average joe isn’t hunting bad guys, his job is to create distance and get to safety. Job #1: avoid, if at all possible, those bad situations.
@Jammaster1972
@Jammaster1972 5 ай бұрын
@@thoughtfulobserver2263 Could not have said that better.
@weissrw1
@weissrw1 3 жыл бұрын
Chris: I used to teach concealed carry classes (really teach -- not just show videos). All of my students' concerns centered on home break-ins, car jacking, robberies and rapes. All those occur at damn near bad breath distance. Maybe you can come up with other examples of when civilians use their guns, but that has to be the vast majority at least in the city and suburbs. Good video.
@EchoSigma6
@EchoSigma6 3 жыл бұрын
You expressed what I was thinking during this video. Though basic marksmanship skills are valuable, do you train your students to point shoot at less than 6’?
@weissrw1
@weissrw1 3 жыл бұрын
@D J Robbers and rapists don't work at a distance. They are in your face. Car jackings -- the same: they have to get you out of the car. Home break-ins may open up the distances a bit, but we're still talking top distances are room to room. Cordially, Ron
@weissrw1
@weissrw1 3 жыл бұрын
@@EchoSigma6 I tell my students to hold the gun in a low ready so the sights are visible if you look for them (if the gun is pointed too far downward - you lose the sights). The idea is that when you bring the gun up and out the sights should be available. Even if you're looking at the bad guy, the sights should be down in front of you. I used to shoot 10,000 shots a year out of my handguns -- so I got pretty good at seeing where the sights were pointing even if the gun wasn't really high enough for true sight alignment (your brain kind of triangulates and does the math for you). I guess that equates to point shooting. As a general rule I taught folks to aim when you can, point when you have to -- but practice!!! Another big issue is that bad guys are a lot LOT faster than we imagine. We have to be ready to act quickly, so even when we aim, we'll be lucky to barely "grab" a sight picture (especially on follow-up shots), so focus hard on the bad guy and "see" the sights fuzzy.
@weissrw1
@weissrw1 3 жыл бұрын
@D J I get your point, and largely agree, but some folks don't do anything naturally with a gun. There are some real klutzy people out there that have learn everything with guns and how to shoot them. One issue is their trigger pulls are so bad, they stop trusting their eyes when they see they are missing and just start yanking the trigger.
@weissrw1
@weissrw1 3 жыл бұрын
@D J That's a hoot!!! I was thinking though that after the shooting starts we'll be smelling a lot more than dog farts!!!!
@bryanmcdermott4204
@bryanmcdermott4204 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent breakdown. For citizens it's also worth noting a potential problem may be identified at some distance, but not classified as an imminent threat until quite close.
@joebob4609
@joebob4609 3 жыл бұрын
I recently started using pistol red dots. I shoot a half sized silhouettes at 10-15 yards. With little dry fire practice I was having trouble finding the dot. So I started drawing and using the window like a ghost ring sight. At 10 yards it’s 100% on target, so I have 0 concerns about using a red dot for EDC now.
@Rodzilla5332
@Rodzilla5332 3 жыл бұрын
Walther’s latest videos featuring the new PDP, I got one and it’s AWESOME, gives tips and talks about how it was designed for red dots. It’s not the slide cut but the grip that was the main feature for the dot. The grip is designed for more pressure in your grip from your pinky and ring finger. They showed Colion Noir that if your having a problem finding the dot squeeze a little harder with your pinky finger and it will bring the dot right into frame. I mean damnit if they were not correct. I’ll try to find the video and link it but seriously if anyone is having problems finding the dot like Noir was, try it. It really works.
@Rodzilla5332
@Rodzilla5332 3 жыл бұрын
Here is the video that helped me pick up the dot. Plus I bought a Walther PDP and love it. LOVE IT. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXaufIKhesSbl7s
@joebob4609
@joebob4609 3 жыл бұрын
@@Rodzilla5332 Thanks for the link got to try it out now.
@anonypersona3189
@anonypersona3189 3 жыл бұрын
What helps is to have your irons 1/3 co-witnessed. You'll always find the dot and if you can't, take a quick peek at the irons and you'll know immediately where the dot is out of frame.
@swiftaudi
@swiftaudi 3 жыл бұрын
@@Rodzilla5332 check out modern samurai project. That guy is sponcered by Walther and it's a premier red dot instructor. I tone of great info on his KZbin
@JamesDavis-ek5sq
@JamesDavis-ek5sq 3 жыл бұрын
Massive props for keeping the LE vs defensive minded citizen distinction in mind. Col. Cooper must be giving a wink from wherever he is now.
@Quality_Guru
@Quality_Guru 3 жыл бұрын
You know you’re in for some insightful information when Chris tells you it’s going to be a two part series.
@InvestigatorsInCars
@InvestigatorsInCars 3 жыл бұрын
"Don't stop... believing... hold on to that feeling..." Well played, Chris, well played. #Journey
@kjkuchma
@kjkuchma 3 жыл бұрын
Chris. Your a GOAT of rational exploration of a topic. Always thoughtfully constructed and researched presentations on a topic, freely acknowledging limits or where information disparities makes comparisons a challenge. Great job.
@knobjob2839
@knobjob2839 3 жыл бұрын
Legal knowledge is as important in concealed carry as the gun itself.
@jrbutler36
@jrbutler36 3 жыл бұрын
The rule of three's makes a bit of sense, given that you're supposed to be DEFENSIVE. But it's only a "general rule." A lot of this boils down, sadly, to local laws. I come from the Buckeye State and up until quite recently we were not a stand your ground state. The rule I was taught by my class instructors, both of whom were SWAT for local large departments, was train up to seven yards for defense. Farther than that could be very tricky to justify in a legal context. So we were taught drills all the way from 0-7 yards. Now they also taught combat handgun, which trained to 25 yards, but 1) I could never afford it and 2) there was a very distinct difference between defensive handgun and combat handgun. Defensive handgun we all had Shields, G43's, my PPK, a Sig238, even a few J-Frames. Combat handgun always had Glock 17's, Sig P229's and 226's, so on and so forth. So it's important, in my mind, to determine your style of carry early on. Are you taking a defensive mentality, or a combat mentality? Pick one and train that way. It's also why I took up a martial arts class. In close quarters if you're attacker is a lot stronger than you are you're going to have a heck of a time retrieving your handgun. Having some martial arts gives you skills and moves you can use to help disengage from a hand to hand engagement and allow you time to get breathing space and retrieve your weapon. Bottom line, if you carry, train for what your local laws permit, and if you're of a defensive mentality or a combat mentality. Train as often as you can afford, and back up your handgun with something else; martial arts, a knife, what have you. Always have a plan D, because A-C can go to crap in a hurry. And always assume if you have 1 threat, you have 2, if you have 2 you have 4, and if you have 4 you have 8. And if you get to 8, then I'm screwed because my PPK only holds 7 rounds.
@Platano_macho
@Platano_macho 3 жыл бұрын
I agree in Oklahoma 20 feet is where you are allowed to use deadly force if someone poses a threat to you so that’s what I train at I sometimes carry a Glock 19. But I mainly carry a Ruger EC9
@richardthomas6602
@richardthomas6602 3 жыл бұрын
Inserting deadly force into a fist fight or grappling fight will get you thrown in jail in most cases. Peter spray is a great disengagement tool in these cases.
@Platano_macho
@Platano_macho 3 жыл бұрын
@@richardthomas6602 if it works on the first try yes I will use it but if it fails and the individual is still a threat then deadly force is a last resort
@TrueOpinion99
@TrueOpinion99 3 жыл бұрын
@@Platano_macho - So...in Oklahoma, what if someone poses a threat to you beyond 20-feet? Can you not defend yourself? Or do you just automatically go to jail?
@Platano_macho
@Platano_macho 3 жыл бұрын
@@TrueOpinion99 beyond 20 ft you’re pushing your ground may be charged with something else
@JugglesGrenades
@JugglesGrenades 3 жыл бұрын
If the range is short, I use "point shooting" or instinctive fire. If the distance is further, the sights are used. These distances are variable, depending on the skill of each shooter.
@jeffpraterJSF
@jeffpraterJSF 3 жыл бұрын
Could go John Basilone ww2 style within 10 yards
@silentnight4
@silentnight4 3 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@Fvckyou123
@Fvckyou123 3 жыл бұрын
There's a vintage fbi training film that tells you to just hip fire within 10 yards. I dont know if thats good advice, just putting it here.
@jeffpraterJSF
@jeffpraterJSF 3 жыл бұрын
@@Fvckyou123 I wonder if it’s like the ww2 training films where they didn’t have time to train with pistols that much so they taught them how to point shoot with your body and it said “there’s a high probability of scoring at least 1 hit in 7 shots like this.”
@Fvckyou123
@Fvckyou123 3 жыл бұрын
@@jeffpraterJSF the video is here(kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6WYd3uDrKdmnbs) at 2 min 45 sec. It was the real technique because theres no reason to rush fbi training and they thought hip firing or point shooting was faster thus better.
@therighttoolcompany868
@therighttoolcompany868 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for answering the question. Yesterday's video had me thinking all day about this question. I carry a Glock 48 with true glow sites. At the range I can hit 25 yards to a few feet. I am 61 years old so I do not see as well as I use to. But I believe I am a fair shot. I do a lot of quick draws at 10 feet with verbal commands. I hit heart lung shot all of the time. I know a red dot would be better at longer distances maybe even at closer. But I carry my pistol in two ways. One in my pocket and the other concealed strong side. The Red dot would work on strong side but not pocket carry. I could get two guns but I have always like the feel of the same. The old saying "beware of the man with one gun for He knows how to use it." So I am still thinking, praying though my choice. Looking forward to the next video.
@GraysdadCal
@GraysdadCal 3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video. Whittling down a ridiculous amount of variables into a reasonable summation. Thank you for the hours you’ve saved us.
@mikethomas5412
@mikethomas5412 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. You offer some of the best information on any media. Thank you.
@davidduafala3050
@davidduafala3050 3 жыл бұрын
Another great video by Lucky Gunner. Your clarity on gun issues is refreshing
@brucefreeman5207
@brucefreeman5207 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Chris, Solid information as usual. I'm currently reading Tom Givens' book Concealed Carry Class so I was happy your referenced it. I think the most important key to being prepared for self defense is to get training. The ability to work through different scenarios in a class setting let's you figure out what you need to do in the event you need to deploy your gun. And if sights (RDS or iron) are needed. Thanks for all the great videos.
@sohum63
@sohum63 3 жыл бұрын
While shooting my Glock 34 that I use for uspsa I started questioning how much I was actually using my sights. Particularly at closer shots under 10 yards I felt like I was looking over the sights and either not using them at all or very little and became concerned it was building bad habits. One day, without noticing my rear sight shifted to the left. Enough to see if you looked but not a huge amount that felt off when lining up for closer shots. All of the sudden I went from pretty decent center of mass hits to just missing b zone targets off to the side. Shot a few rounds before stopping to figure out what was up. Easy fix but on the plus side I realized how much I was actually seeing and using my sights, even up close.
@C5drummer
@C5drummer 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent commentary! Even before the next video, this teaches us all a valuable lesson...PRACTICE! Practice manipulating your firearm of choice at 3 yards, then at 1 yard, and 6.25 yards, then at 4.38 feet, then up-close & personal, then at 13 feet, then leaning on something, then on the ground, then on your side, then hiding behind, maybe shoot at 15 yards...You get the picture. At the indoor gun range, don't just stand there, you've got 2 feet on either side of you too...move side to side if you're allowed, etc! Can't wait for your next video, Chris!
@MrTacklebury
@MrTacklebury 3 жыл бұрын
Definitely appreciate your attempt to come up with real numbers. During my CPL course here in Michigan, we shoot at 3 yards and 7 yards. They also tell us that most encounters happen at 7 yards or less. I think sights are a reference that become more important the further the distance of the object. I definitely don't think that a red dot for carry improves in these two ranges. For more detailed shooting like pest removal or target shooting at short range, they are somewhat helpful.
@frankbutta9344
@frankbutta9344 3 жыл бұрын
Wouldn’t officer fatality distances tell us to be more skilled at close distances? Faster draw times, point shooting, lack of hesitation, situational awareness.
@justinblower7598
@justinblower7598 3 жыл бұрын
What the stats on Officer fatalities is missing is how many of the incidents were ambush attacks, and how many were situations where both parties were shooting.
@sammaupin3677
@sammaupin3677 3 жыл бұрын
Not only what @justin blower was saying, but they're wearing a uniform and are full on open carrying. That duty belt.... The badge, and the patches....
@thatrealba
@thatrealba 3 жыл бұрын
@@sammaupin3677 cops are targeted because that are cops, not because they are open carrying. In my 44 years, some of which were in law enforcement, I've never seen or heard of an incident when someone was targeted because of open carry.
@MA-hc6mb
@MA-hc6mb 3 жыл бұрын
@@thatrealba I think the point is making is you can SEE they're armed. You're not going to stand 10ft away and threaten them with a knife like you might a private citizen you don't know is armed.
@thatrealba
@thatrealba 3 жыл бұрын
@@MA-hc6mb maybe so 🤷‍♂️
@danoneill2846
@danoneill2846 3 жыл бұрын
No matter what , always practice SOME point shooting
@HAYAOLEONE
@HAYAOLEONE 3 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@redaethel4619
@redaethel4619 3 жыл бұрын
And just one handed shooting in general, as it happens a lot more often than you’d expect in a time where everyone’s using two handed methods. Point shooting gets weird interpretations, the truth of it is that you use as much sight as you need to. At 30 yards I’m going to make sure my front sight is absolutely centered, at three feet I can make solid meaningful hits with the gun at the navel if I need to.
@danoneill2846
@danoneill2846 3 жыл бұрын
@@redaethel4619 Yep I practice point shooting with one & two hands . Both ways can work very well with practice . ALSO with a long gun , kind of like 2 handed point shooting , you can shoot well a good distance like that . The POINT is Speed , shoot like you might with no real time to aim & still get good fast hits .
@HAYAOLEONE
@HAYAOLEONE 3 жыл бұрын
@Dan Jett 🤔
@redaethel4619
@redaethel4619 3 жыл бұрын
@@HAYAOLEONE Dan’s drunk.
@richardkluesek4301
@richardkluesek4301 3 жыл бұрын
In a robbery the perp will be close enough to take your valuables.
@DWalter.27
@DWalter.27 3 жыл бұрын
But he comes from somewhere... It's all about when the threat can be identified.
@AurelienCarnoy
@AurelienCarnoy 3 жыл бұрын
Lol. But true.
@M1911jln
@M1911jln 3 жыл бұрын
Not all deadly force situations are robberies. Sometimes they just want your life.
@richardkluesek4301
@richardkluesek4301 3 жыл бұрын
@@M1911jln Absolutely for certain. Meaness and cruelty and prejudice. And in the aftermath of a holdup they want to leave no witnesses and intimidate any they missed. My opinion is based on operating cash businesses in the ghetto, more colleagues killed and wounded there than comrades lost in Viet Nam.
@BirdDogey1
@BirdDogey1 2 жыл бұрын
I've thwarted two robberies with my J frame. Furthest person was about 10 ft.
@jeffkelly5972
@jeffkelly5972 6 ай бұрын
I was just about to ask if a revolver can still be used for protection your post answered that.
@vilenationgaming
@vilenationgaming 5 ай бұрын
Two??? And here I am not getting any action.
@BirdDogey1
@BirdDogey1 5 ай бұрын
@@vilenationgaming Im now up to three. You dont want action. Seriously.
@kpfagerberg
@kpfagerberg 5 ай бұрын
@@BirdDogey1amen to that. But carry but don’t ever want to have to use it
@Uberragen21
@Uberragen21 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent information! Thank you for researching and compiling the data.
@Goldenwithaleash
@Goldenwithaleash 3 жыл бұрын
I know red dots are the future and I’m slowly getting accustomed to using one but for me there 2 factors holding me back. 1. Having over a decade of training/practice/competition with irons, they are faster within 15 yards for me. Training issue, i know. 2. With carry, HD, and competition, I use 4-5 different pistols and putting a quality RMR on all of them would be extremely expensive.
@matthewtemkin4726
@matthewtemkin4726 3 жыл бұрын
My friends Grandfather was a Marine Raider in WW2. His lesson to his Grandson--“ If you are shooting a pistol in combat and are using the sights--you are probably shooting too darn slow” Ed Lovette, in his snub nose revolver book, has some civilian gunfights statistics and they correspond with the rule of 3.
@thesebiscuits1691
@thesebiscuits1691 3 жыл бұрын
Guess what, im more accurate with my rmr, therefore im carrying my firearm with an rmr. Use what works best for you.
@mikepaz8385
@mikepaz8385 3 жыл бұрын
I’m more accurate AND faster with a red dot pistol 👍🏽
@trumpybare7329
@trumpybare7329 3 жыл бұрын
I agree with you on that. I was hesitant to go with the red dot at first. Now I’m loving it. I’m far more accurate at all distances with the dot. I believe they are the future.
@columbiariverpussycat3769
@columbiariverpussycat3769 3 жыл бұрын
Woah, look at Mr. Bill Gates with his fancy pants rmr... Lol jk
@ekimcon8829
@ekimcon8829 3 жыл бұрын
Use what works best for u is good advice.
@seyphrsystems7392
@seyphrsystems7392 3 жыл бұрын
You can’t cheat or substitute the basic fundamentals of pistol shooting. Build a foundation then branch out from there.
@T_1357_F
@T_1357_F 3 жыл бұрын
I would think that the engagement distance for civilians would be more likely closer rather than farther. This is primarily due to the premise that the likelihood of a defensive shooting is directly proportional to how quickly the threat is identified, and can be determined to be an imminent & deadly.
@marblemarble7113
@marblemarble7113 3 жыл бұрын
At the end of the day the majority of attackers are going to be closing distance on you so unless you identify them as an attacker at 100 yards aways they're going to be within close range. Unless gang warfare or some unorthodox shit like that
@tedb.5707
@tedb.5707 3 жыл бұрын
Outside my own bedroom and bedroom hallway I have no moral obligation to close the range. As a civilian I can run away bravely. "Stop. Leave me alone. Go away..." By contrast the LEO must close the range and end the engagement.
@johnshields9110
@johnshields9110 3 жыл бұрын
@Henry Murphy You mention some topics that are a great mystery to professionals and laymen alike. Where will the attack come from, and at what distance? In my years of gun packing and concerns, from a vehicle it could be 20 yards, from a parking lot, 30 feet to 3 feet? I used to practice at 20 yards, now it's down to 20 ft, and my carry guns are smaller. Pace of the distance across a McDonalds, and it's about 30 ft. I now think about just getting the gun out and fire based on getting the sights on the target, or gap shooting off the end of the pistol barrel at closer ranges. Having experience at shooting longer ranges with pistols, I can figure out the needed sight hold. God help us all if we ever need to draw our weapons. The 'law' would never be on our side, but semi directed grazing fire might save your life; that never seems to be mentioned; every instance won't be a clean draw, or a person having a perfectly squared up target standing still for you to shoot.
@avshockey6633
@avshockey6633 3 жыл бұрын
Yup, it's kind of hard to rob someone from 20 yards away. Chances are pretty good that they will be much closer before they make a move.
@EthosAtheos
@EthosAtheos 3 жыл бұрын
@@tedb.5707 To your first comment I agree very much. I can't imagine a situation where a person in my home gets more than one warning shout. As for your second comment about a LEO's obligations. No such obligation exists. In the USA LEOs have NO DUTY TO PROTECT the public. None, not even a little. The courts have ruled on this and it is settled law. An officer can stand by and watch you get murdered and do NOTHING and they have done nothing wrong. So, long as they arrest your murder and or write a report. They have no responsibility to protect you.
@connerbv1209
@connerbv1209 3 жыл бұрын
While I agree that a vast majority of engagements will be well under 10yds, I’d say it’s also a good idea to prepare for the worst case scenario. You may be the outlier that needs to take a shot at 15+ yards, so train with your setup to make sure you can do it if the need arises.
@josephreisinger33
@josephreisinger33 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Chris 4 compiling all this info. Info that is hard to get.
@6236003
@6236003 3 жыл бұрын
"If I was trying to build a winning football team I wouldn't look at the stats for a losing basketball team." A perfect explanation of why LEOKA stats are not a good choice for informing decisions about how to prepare for private citizen self defense.
@EchoSigma6
@EchoSigma6 3 жыл бұрын
This video had me taking in every word, what a compelling subject matter. A few months ago I saw a video by Warrior Poet Society on close distance shooting and how shots by trained police missed 80% and the actual hits were low. Ever since then I started practicing what he showed. I also watch James Yeager.
@darbyheavey406
@darbyheavey406 2 жыл бұрын
Thirty yards…I want a carbine…
@mattcavanaugh6082
@mattcavanaugh6082 3 жыл бұрын
Outstanding. One of the best analyses of any complex subject I've heard in a long time.
@jetnam7580
@jetnam7580 3 жыл бұрын
My takeaway: Of the 67 incidents, 3 killed because they were unarmed and unable to defend themselves 😔. Consistently carrying makes a difference.. *and consistently training..
@samb8996
@samb8996 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for presenting this real world commentary Chris !
@redshift1976
@redshift1976 3 жыл бұрын
I would imagine a large proportion of civilian defensive shooting would occur in a home. If not in a home, at the least indoors. Assuming a typical bedroom or living room isn't more than 20 or so feet across, that would automatically limit the average range of those gunfights.
@LuckyGunner
@LuckyGunner 3 жыл бұрын
Assaults outside the home are far more likely, but more people have guns at home than people who carry guns, so you're probably right that most civilian shootings are at home. The majority of the Rangemaster student incidents occurred outside the home, which is probably another reason so few of them have been in the 0-2 yard range.
@ol_gunner13b40
@ol_gunner13b40 6 ай бұрын
I worked at 3 different major city police departments. It was accepted that gunfights pretty much happen in under 15 feet, so 3 to 5 yards is spot on. I agree, who has time to aim in a gunfight?!
@9ZERO6
@9ZERO6 3 жыл бұрын
Regardless, shoot what you can land consistent hits with, and do your best to avoid analysis paralysis, which is much harder than it used to be. 😔
@BananarchOfTedKacistan
@BananarchOfTedKacistan 3 жыл бұрын
I didn’t expect all the data and I’m happy for it. Sure if someone is close enough you may not be able to sight them, but there’s also a chance you can’t get your handgun out of the holster then too, if it is that close. Train for retention shots but also think about when you may pull a gun and your dude surrenders. You’ll want to maintain distance, even past 3-5 yards.
@Philly1958
@Philly1958 3 жыл бұрын
I agree. LE data doesn’t hold up for civilian defense. Completely different dynamics.
@thatguy1306
@thatguy1306 3 жыл бұрын
Street light poeple Journey nice don't stop believing
@springbloom5940
@springbloom5940 3 жыл бұрын
Same for bullets. Dpt adopts a service load, shoots a bunch of people and whoa, whaddya know, it works!
@joncampo1627
@joncampo1627 3 жыл бұрын
That’s not even remotely true. If you are using a firearm in self defense, you’re either getting mugged, carjacked, raped, or in your hallway/bedroom.
@springbloom5940
@springbloom5940 3 жыл бұрын
@@joncampo1627 Um, yes... unlike LE shootings, where they are *not* being carjacked, mugged, or raped.
@davidhoffman6980
@davidhoffman6980 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. And thanks for the shout outs. I'm already subscribed to Activate Self Protection; I'll have to check out the other guys you mentioned.
@lenord123
@lenord123 3 жыл бұрын
Thank You for doing this ! I can't wait for the next video !!
@mickeylyle
@mickeylyle 3 жыл бұрын
I watch your videos for the useful information, I appreciate them for the amazing production quality, but the song lyric easter eggs are absolutely gold.
@snek9353
@snek9353 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. MUCH more needs to be done on subjects like this. FWIW personally that so many are close in is why I do two things that aren't so common these days. Carry a 45 and carry a fixed blade knife. The 45 is about the fact that I want the fastest incapacitation possible. I consider it unlikely that capacity will truly matter, that time will only allow for a few rounds before I've either won or lost. Those few rounds need to do as much as possible. The knife is because so many attacks are physical contact, grappling type attacks. For those a gun is the wrong tool, a knife is a far superior tool. It's also why I'm opposed to appendix carry, the draw is to easy to pin, too hard to turn away from the attacker, and too hard to do one handed. And again it's why when I train my draw I do NOT practice extending my arms before firing. My first round off is point shooting from retention with one hand. That said I just bought my first pistol red dot. The new ACSS Vulcan convinced me it was worth it.
@sloppyfloppy79
@sloppyfloppy79 10 ай бұрын
45s and 357 mags are the only 2 cartridges that have a 95%+ one shot stop.
@snek9353
@snek9353 10 ай бұрын
@@sloppyfloppy79 Finally someone else on the internet who knows the actual data.
@mhl2674
@mhl2674 3 жыл бұрын
this has little to do with red dots and everything to do with carrying a round in the chamber.
@yunggolem4687
@yunggolem4687 3 жыл бұрын
For a while now, I haven't seen anyone who doesn't carry chambered. I used to know one guy that wouldn't carry chambered due to fear of NDs, but he came around about 2.5 years ago.
@montycasper4300
@montycasper4300 3 жыл бұрын
Or carry a revolver, since striker AD/ND'S are a lot more common than defensive encounters.
@treborkroy5280
@treborkroy5280 3 жыл бұрын
@@yunggolem4687 new gun owners, people who don't research PROPERLY, and gun fudds that live by outdated firearm mechanics and safety training.
@definit1on119
@definit1on119 3 жыл бұрын
I’d also say dry firing is key as well
@definit1on119
@definit1on119 3 жыл бұрын
I’d also say dry firing is key as well
@jackieeastom8758
@jackieeastom8758 3 жыл бұрын
With the reference of the only time I have had to draw my pistol,(I am 62 and have carried since about’80 or so) last year at a rest area,the meth-head was at our passenger side door in a blink and settled right down at the sight of my pistol heading towards his head. So about 5 feet + -! I practice at 25 yards regularly though.
@donlang2661
@donlang2661 3 жыл бұрын
Finally, some stats to at least have a baseline to have a realistic discussion on distance(s) of a typical gunfight. One may want to take it with a grain of salt but it is something to consider when training for self-defense with a weapon. Thanks for the info.
@TerranPlanetaryDefenseForce
@TerranPlanetaryDefenseForce 3 жыл бұрын
My college campus had a carjacker with a rifle. I'm not playing this "all gunfights are within 3 inches with 1 bullet shot" game
@CallofWar5
@CallofWar5 3 жыл бұрын
Right on. People are making decisions on the angle of, what's the least I can get by with. And that's fine, but I care about bringing the most firepower as reasonably possible
@boomerisadog3899
@boomerisadog3899 3 жыл бұрын
@@CallofWar5 I used to worry about capacity a lot but I mostly carry a single stack 9mm with 7+1rounds in the pistol and an extra 9 round mag. I've been thinking about picking up a Shield Plus for a little more firepower though. I used to carry a 16+1 and an extra mag but it's hard to conceal in the summer.
@DWalter.27
@DWalter.27 3 жыл бұрын
Mine too, except it was a team of 3 and they kidnapped people and took them to ATMs... If all we cared about was statistical averages, we'd never carry because statistically you're more likely to not need a gun.
@BrianRRenfro
@BrianRRenfro 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah but you can't carry a rifle at all times which would be useful maybe 5 percent of the time. You have to carry for that 95 percent of trouble and know that it will get you out of that 95 percent 100 percent of the time. That other 5 percent is what you train extra for. I would rather optimize for the most common problems and then deal with the rarities than compromise all around. Anyone who thinks they are prepared for everything is probably not prepared for anything.
@TerranPlanetaryDefenseForce
@TerranPlanetaryDefenseForce 3 жыл бұрын
@@boomerisadog3899 Carry the largest capacity that you can get away with for any given environment. For me it's a 19x with weapon light and rmr for most of the year. For summer it's a Glock 49 MOS with TLR7 Sub and Holosun.
@davyjones8921
@davyjones8921 3 жыл бұрын
Very well done. Chris bustin' out the classic rock references is just the cherry on top.
@tankcrowe5417
@tankcrowe5417 3 жыл бұрын
When the adrenaline hits, muscle memory is what you're left with. Beware of the old man with one handgun.
@parsecboy4954
@parsecboy4954 3 жыл бұрын
Not that old bullshit again. You might just be saying we should beware the old man who bought a gun 30 years ago, stuck it in a drawer, and hasn't picked it up since...
@captseamus
@captseamus 3 жыл бұрын
I am an old man.... 72 years old.... I have a 1991 Taurus #85... it has been my only CCW since then... 30 years, only handgun I carry and practice with regularly. At 21feet I can shoot 50 rounds reloading 5 rounds at a time - nonstop! It has a Crimson Red Dot installed along with a trigger and hammer jobs. I can and still do- place 49 out of 50 shots in the palm of YOUR HAND! I firmly believe that if one can keep all rounds in a tight center mass they should aim for the bridge of the nose instead of the chest. No body armour for the nose. The 50th round was down and left 1 1/2" of outside fired pattern.
@rascal0175
@rascal0175 7 ай бұрын
I’m laughing with you at this. When I became a fed we spent an unbelievable amount of time in firearms training. The purpose behind it all? Muscle memory.
@marie-noellebaechler1433
@marie-noellebaechler1433 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. In another one, you mention Tom Given's book. In this one, he mentions that his clients who had to défend their lives had engagements at "car length". Engagements under two yards are rare. So are engagements beyond 7. He also mentions that incidents with two agressors are frequent.
@johnbell6956
@johnbell6956 3 жыл бұрын
While I appreciate the research that went into this video and don’t dispute the statistics. In a combat situation of under 10’ any sights are useless. I am a vietnam combat veteran, 1967-69 and survived 6 pistol combat situations of less than 10’. Many more with rifles. Range practice is a necessity, it gets you used to the sound, operation and feel of your particular firearm. In an adversarial situation, once you decide to shoot someone, it takes about 1/10th of a second for the adrenaline to hit you and you will be lucky to hit a building at 6”. My recommendation is to sight down the barrel or slide and pull the trigger until they don’t get up. After you toss your lunch, it will take approximately a half hour for you to stop shaking as the adrenaline leaves your system. Good luck.
@richardthomas6602
@richardthomas6602 3 жыл бұрын
@@robertwatson818 jungle warfare is in feet.
@johnbell6956
@johnbell6956 3 жыл бұрын
There is no such thing as 10 yards in a tunnel
@willbrink
@willbrink Ай бұрын
I was waiting for him to mention the applicability of law enforcement shootings of minimal value to civilians, and he does as good job of that. Having said that, should be expected as short distances and very dynamic. Adding to that, I know three LEOs who were in OIS, all said they never saw their sites it all happened so fast. Take that as you will.
@caseybrown5183
@caseybrown5183 3 жыл бұрын
Avoid situations likely to result in physical conflict. Don’t aggress. Sleep next to a rifle. Carry a concealed pistol. Practice with both. Kill things and eat them.
@madride858585
@madride858585 3 жыл бұрын
Gospel
@scottshoe842
@scottshoe842 3 жыл бұрын
True king
@john091077
@john091077 3 жыл бұрын
My wife identifies as an ar15.
@scottshoe842
@scottshoe842 3 жыл бұрын
@@john091077 I identify as a fully vaccinated person.
@DaDaDo661
@DaDaDo661 3 жыл бұрын
@@john091077 Hold her close
@duke927
@duke927 6 ай бұрын
Retired LEO here. Even in qualification I do point shooting only at 3-5 yards. More than that I will try to use a quick sighting with the sights. I only have iron sights. They never fail. Training for short range accuracy should focus on grip and presentation over sight picture. I still raise the weapon up near my line of sight rather than hip shooting. At close contact a close to the body hip shot may be called for. So maybe some practice would be warranted.
@joebob4609
@joebob4609 3 жыл бұрын
Are these stats accurate? You be the judge. Edit: Stats are easy to find. Accurate statistics not so much.
@danoneill2846
@danoneill2846 3 жыл бұрын
100% some is fiction or no info at all
@chubbycatfish4573
@chubbycatfish4573 3 жыл бұрын
Is this "Joe?"
@sainttrilby7171
@sainttrilby7171 3 жыл бұрын
I see you are a man of culture.
@paullytle1904
@paullytle1904 3 жыл бұрын
Ahh a connoisseur
@kennethcurtis1856
@kennethcurtis1856 3 жыл бұрын
OK, Paul.
@inyourdefense0
@inyourdefense0 3 жыл бұрын
Good analysis, as always. Inside 10 feet I'm "point shooting". Beyond that, I have time to acquire the target using my red dot.
@mrs.vasquezz
@mrs.vasquezz 3 жыл бұрын
Id argue most civilians are ambushed by criminals vs police being an obvious threat to the criminal for much farther away
@yunggolem4687
@yunggolem4687 3 жыл бұрын
Objective of a criminal is usually to steal. They must be near enough to communicate and threaten. Usually they want you to hand them your wallet, keys, phone, etc... which means they're within about 2 yards. And if you've watched videos of armed robberies, it's usually more like 1 yard. Standing close also provides intimidation value, even though it's tactically detrimental.
@alkatraz8163
@alkatraz8163 3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. Dirtbags are much less likely to confront a cop. It's their method of choice against what they believe is a soft target.
@marblemarble7113
@marblemarble7113 3 жыл бұрын
@@yunggolem4687 yeah
@NPS69
@NPS69 3 жыл бұрын
And your fight doesn't magically end when you shoot at them, but they are likely to open the distance.
@mrs.vasquezz
@mrs.vasquezz 3 жыл бұрын
@@NPS69 use a better gun?
@danielswartz6818
@danielswartz6818 10 ай бұрын
Excellent presentation based on available data. I do a lot of dry firing and have noticed that up to 12 feet I don’t have to use my sights. Where ever my eyes are focused that’s where my sights line up. After checking I have noticed my sights to be perfectly aligned and dead on target. It’s sorta like instinct shooting. Beyond that point, even though my sights are almost lined up perfectly I need a microsecond to make sure they are lined up. Also the target gets smaller the farther away that it is. I seem to be much better using my dominant hand for targets at 12 feet as it seems to me that I can present my weapon much faster and be 100% on target. Farther than that makes center mass much smaller. Looking at the stats from NYPD with significant shootings out to 50 feet I came to the conclusion that most of the streets are over 50 ft wide and that many encounters may be gang related with multiple offenders. However as you mentioned that data is not available. At those distances a snuby could be reloaded several times. Not so at 10 feet. Remember a non athletic person can cover 21 ft in 1.7 seconds. So, at that distance you certainly won’t be able to use your sights. It has to be instinct shooting at its best if you want to survive. It takes a lot of practice to be able to be sufficient. That’s why dry firing is so important. I’m at the point now that at the closer distances I can just present my weapon and the sights are perfectly aligned and out to 21 feet I can still hit center mass just as effective. It’s muscle memory. It works.
@joehelvey5794
@joehelvey5794 3 жыл бұрын
This is why my conceal carry is a LAW rocket 🚀 as long as I don’t mount a vertical fore grip on it. Perfect for every occasion.
@thedirtbag7
@thedirtbag7 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting, I might switch. I've been concealed carrying my mosin nagant 91/30 and it's been a pain in my ass
@brandonb8543
@brandonb8543 3 жыл бұрын
Dont forget to mention the ladies love you when they see the big rocket in the pants.
@jasonschmidt9569
@jasonschmidt9569 3 жыл бұрын
MG-42 for me. Accept no substitute
@joehelvey5794
@joehelvey5794 3 жыл бұрын
@BrandonB lmao, that’s my secret. Can’t rope em in with the truck I drive
@Kodiakbait
@Kodiakbait 7 ай бұрын
Good video. What wasn’t discussed was hit/miss ratios. When I used to teach this stuff “trained officers” MISSED 80% of the time. I don’t know what the current stats are but wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t similar. 8 out of 10 rounds are heading into the community (mall, church, school, park, roadway, etc.) at 1000+ft/sec, and that doesn’t count any pass-through projectiles. Point shooting out to 15’ is a good idea; enhanced sighting systems for distances over that seems a prudent option.
@valuedhumanoid6574
@valuedhumanoid6574 3 жыл бұрын
Also, just look around next time you’re out in public and imagine scenarios where you would be in danger. Like walking down a sidewalk and you see someone approaching you. Visualize what that confrontation would be like given the environment around you. I would wager that almost all would be in the 3 foot to 10 foot range.
@foodank_atr817
@foodank_atr817 3 жыл бұрын
In most situations its someone approaching you. It's hardly ever a parking lot wide standoff like movies depict.
@JamesH-tk4tm
@JamesH-tk4tm 3 жыл бұрын
Great video, , I can appreciate all the research and work getting all the stats. Very informative and great info to consider for self defense preparation.
@VTPSTTU
@VTPSTTU 3 жыл бұрын
I've been watching some videos about cane self-defense. I walk with a cane for balance, so knowing a little bit about that is good for me. Eventually, I'm going to train to use my non-dominant hand to make a thrust with the foot of the cane into an attacker's chest while drawing a pistol with my dominant hand. I want to be able to give myself enough time to draw.That's going to increase the distance of the shot that I need to take but give me more time to draw. These are interesting numbers. The balance that seems most important based on these numbers is whether the extra time needed to draw a pistol with a red dot or the extra trouble concealing a pistol with a red dot will be worthwhile for having to make a shot of only five yards. I don't believe that the equation would work in favor of the red dot for me in this scenario. Another issue depends on the cost of red dots. I guess some red dots are under $100 these days, but most that I see in the stores cost in the $100 to $300 range. That leads to the question of whether a person is likely to perform better spending that money on a red dot sight or spending that money on training. I'd rather spend my money on training. I know that the big names in the training world probably don't offer a $200 class, but if I could find someone good but not as famous who offered a class for moderately-disabled shooters for $200, I'd pick the class.
@kenhughes4715
@kenhughes4715 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent, looking forward to the next video. Thank you.
@user-ef4gf7rr9r
@user-ef4gf7rr9r 3 жыл бұрын
Kinda wish the data specified "indoor" and "outdoor" shooting incidents. This is essentially comparing door breaches to sideways traffic stops, but without labeling which is which.
@LuckyGunner
@LuckyGunner 3 жыл бұрын
For what it's worth, the overwhelming majority of the Rangemaster student incidents were outside the home.
@TheHuscarl101
@TheHuscarl101 3 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown, looking forward to t,he next vid. I train my students (not LEO) at the 3’ range and the longest shot they’d have in their home. Typically 5yds. Too many people practice “bullseye shooting” at distances they don’t need at times that are too long in lighting conditions that won’t exist.
@hillbillyscholar8126
@hillbillyscholar8126 3 жыл бұрын
I would endorse the idea that civilian confrontations tend to be very close. Extended range brings in to question the neccessity of using deadly force; it implies that you may have had other options. This may depend on specific circumstances of course, but it does not change that perception in general.
@JamieR2077
@JamieR2077 10 ай бұрын
Finally done good data!!! Tom Gibbons, thank you! Interesting that so many are outside arms length. I always assumed it'd be at melee range. Good point that they're going to threaten from a safe distance, then move in closer. Also, THANK YOU for pointing out the difference in the civilian and enforcement situations that would lead to different stats.
@richardkimble1191
@richardkimble1191 3 жыл бұрын
Be aware of your surroundings everywhere and especially gas stations.
@melancholydawg
@melancholydawg 3 жыл бұрын
In the Atlanta area, it seems there is a shooting at a gas station every week and sometimes more. I find myself more aware when pumping gas than most any other time. Regardless, being situationally aware is your first line of defense. The sooner you identify the potential danger, the more time you have to react and respond.
@SuperSaltydog77
@SuperSaltydog77 3 жыл бұрын
When I'm at the gas station I take the keys out of the ignition, into my pocket or hooked onto a belt loop, and I lock the doors. Plus I carry.
@paulscountry456
@paulscountry456 3 жыл бұрын
Good advice....
@lfader
@lfader 3 жыл бұрын
@@lentzquest They pulled them at my go2 station. Mega annoying distraction!
@randyshaver525
@randyshaver525 2 ай бұрын
Exactly!!​@@melancholydawg
@G.I.JeffsWorkbench
@G.I.JeffsWorkbench 8 ай бұрын
I appreciate the rigor and impartial analysis. My personal experience from 2-way live fire “range” encounters is that it depends on many factors; too many to produce an accurate & meaningful generalization. Even with a valid generalization, you potentially have the rest of your life to determine how to respond. Use sights or not? How many attackers? Any friendlies nearby, including on the other side of common drywall? What are the visibility conditions? Are you carrying anything with one or both hands? So, IMHO, you’re best off practicing for both close in (up to 10’ or so) using the “point & shoot” method, and also beyond 10’ when you might have time to benefit from sights or dots. Thanks for starting this great, straightforward discussion. At the very least, it should provoke candid self reflection as viewers assess their current skills, and ability to react to varied realistic circumstances.
@flyingfalcon8999
@flyingfalcon8999 3 жыл бұрын
But still practice at greater distance. If you're good further out then under stress then you'll be decent to good close in.
@kennethcurtis1856
@kennethcurtis1856 3 жыл бұрын
Your techniques are differernt for close encounters than longer distances.
@bushwacker2048
@bushwacker2048 3 жыл бұрын
YES, so much this. I thought I was doing good when I was shooting tight rapid fire groups at 15 yards, then I reached out to a whopping 25 yards and I was all OVER the place. I had to slow way down and build my speed back up, then my groups at 15 were even tighter.
@nicktaylor5952
@nicktaylor5952 3 жыл бұрын
Anyone who has really practiced long knows why you go short it's WAY easier. I've done it. It helped me tremendously.
@nicktaylor5952
@nicktaylor5952 3 жыл бұрын
@@kennethcurtis1856 Not really unless you're talking point shooting and retention training
@mmpatriot2170
@mmpatriot2170 3 жыл бұрын
Tons of clear science and data to understand a complicated and emotional topic, plus a Journey reference at the end?!? Genius! 😁👍😎
@haldorasgirson9463
@haldorasgirson9463 3 жыл бұрын
Wonder when pocket 9mm that hold 10+ rounds are going to start affecting the number of rounds fired?
@nelsonmartinez5665
@nelsonmartinez5665 7 ай бұрын
Love your videos. Your spot on, on so many issues. Thanks.
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