The True Villain of Echoes of Wisdom

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Don't forget to subscribe! 😁

[@MyLilGekko_Roblox]

already did

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

@MyLilGekko_Roblox Awesome! Thanks!

[@Cliffordlonghead]

@ZeldianGamer-231 hii

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Hello!

[@koronos]

Maybe there isn't a bad guy. Everyone is the hero in their own story.

[@The_nerd_hinox]

We stopped destruction of Hyrule. Thats enough to make me think I’m the hero

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Well, it's a matter of perspective I guess

[@ZayaMillis]

Two things can be true at the same time. It's like how Hyrule is the oppressor from Ganondorf's point of view in Oot and it's sequels.

[@AvocadoInvocado]

What's next? This is why Aku is the hero and samurai jack is the villain? Wait a minute...

[@briancorvello3620]

Uh, no, his name is the Japanese word for "evil". He's the villain. (Sarcasm, yes, but it does seem every villain has their defenders.)

[@AvocadoInvocado]

@briancorvello3620 Sorry for my bad joke I made that comment because I realized that they have basically the same origin story: A being of nothingness attacked by 3 gods that almost destroy it. Then it ends up on Earth, and sometime later they start to consume the land I wonder if it's a coincidence, someone at Nintendo was a fan of samurai Jack, or they are both inspired by the same thing

[@briancorvello3620]

@@AvocadoInvocado my point exactly, actually. Null is, as I said above, pretty much a PG rated version of Cthulhu. It doesn't percieve the world the same way humans do, and only in its own bizarre means of thought can it truly be pursuing a noble goal.

[@phoenixzreaper2421]

Funny thing about looking at actions through the eyes of another, you start to realize everything isn't as black and white as you first thought, and the other party may only be reacting and trying to defend themselves and their way of life.

[@eggmug562]

I disagree. There is no peace if there is nothing. He is a creature attempting to snuff out others selfishly for his stagnant desires. Instead of trying to coexist, he destroys. Without change, there is stagnation. I feel not for the large, unknowable cosmic force. Is it a matter of good and evil? No. It is a matter of survival. A matter of stagnation vs. creation. To appoint evil to beings beyond such mortal concepts. I have no guilt and no grudge. To say either side is evil or good is ignorant to how the fight for survival plays out. By this metric are the titans of greek myth, the victims, because they were there first and simply doing what they could to keep their world in check? No. The same is true of null and the goddesses.

[@eggmug562]

Not to mention you ignored the countless lives or possibilities he snuffed out for the crime of simply existing. How is that kind? How is that fair? You can try to rationalize it yes but if you can call the player evil for killing null, we can call null evil for eradicating everything because the mere existence of something other than himself upset him. So pound for pound, yes, on many levels, Null is very much evil, in many ways too.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Nothing is peaceful. For it is neither a positive or a negative. It's nothing. And that is what Null was used to. How is Null being selfish for eradicating other life when they intruded upon him? Did he not have a right to defend the space / property he owned? It's more of a misunderstanding, Null isn't trying to be selfish, but like you said just surviving. And I guess I wouldn't necessarily call either side "evil". The whole situation was just wrongly handled. Both sides hurt each other and will call the other wrong.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

You make some interesting points and I appreciate your perspective! Thanks for commenting!😊

[@keeptv1918]

It’s interesting because the way this origin story plays out reminds me of the story in hollow knight it’s the same basic premise as the void in that game and the intruding light the radiance is the main antagonist of the game.

[@briancorvello3620]

Yet another attempt to portray a truly evil and selfish being as "well-intentioned". Supposedly, the Radiance was an amoral creator deity until the Pale King (her benevolent counterpart) swayed her worshippers to his side by offering them sapience and free will. (Gee, who would EVER want that? Sarcasm there.) I guess you could portray her as a tragic figure had she not released the Infection, giving her former subjects a choice between dying from a horrible disease and forfeiting the Pale King's gifts and returning to a life of being mindless drones - divine extortion there, IMOHO. You know how they say "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"? That may be true, but the road to Heaven is NOT paved with bad ones.

[@TomMooreT2S]

No, no, no! The true villain wasn’t us nor Null! But rather… NINTENDO!!! They made the timeline a mess! Rather than fixing it… They just wanted to distance themselves from this subject… So they can create new stories because they were writing themselves in corners that can’t piece together the overarching timeline… So they created Null by taking inspiration from the Kirby series’ Void Termina. A primordial dark god that reflects the negativity of the worst emotions known to life. A destroyer of worlds because of the pain it endured… DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR?!? Nintendo are the villains! Not just to Zelda… But to its fanbase!

[@briancorvello3620]

Ah yes, the timeline. Zelda MUST have a coherent timeline! It's all Nintendo's fault for messing it up! Ever play Five Nights at Freddy's? This is also a franchise with a confusing timeline, plus fan theories, rumors, conspiracy theories up the yin-yang, as if FNaF didn’t have a confusing enough backstory already. Eventually, Ultimate Custom Night (a standalone game where the player could customize characters, the setting, music, controls, etc) seemed to provide the developers’ opinions of all this with Mr. Hippo, a downloadable character created solely for player customization. Should Mr. Hippo kill the protagonist, what he says has a different tone and shows a different personality than the other animatronics (he sounds like a grandfather giving advice, whereas the others sound like demonic abominations from Hell) and tends to be longer and more drawn-out. One of his possible dialogues includes this: Mr. Hippo: That reminds me of one summer day in the park, I was having a delightful picnic with my good friend Orville. And I said to him, I said “Orville, I-I have a story” And he said to me “What’s the significance of the story?” I said to him “Orville, not every story has to have significance, ya know? Sometimes uhh, sometimes a story is just a story. You try to read into every little thing and find meaning in everything anyone says, you’ll just drive yourself crazy. Had a friend do it once, wasn’t pretty, we talked about it for years. And not only that, you’ll likely end up believe something you shouldn’t believe or thinking something you shouldn’t think o-o-or assuming something you shouldn’t assume, ya know? Sometimes I said a story is just a story, so just be quiet for one second here life and eat your sandwich, okay? And as for the seemingly nonexistent backstory of Mr. Hippo himself? Mr. Hippo: So, you may be asking yourself, how did I go from sitting by the falls drinking lemonade to being wedged in the air duct, not only with Orville, but with an entire assortment of fruity-colored friends? Well, there’s uh, there’s really no good answer to that, but perhaps I met a demise of my own at some point and this is my afterlife or my dream-whatever it might mean I honestly don’t know. Or, maybe it doesn’t mean anything at all. Maybe it doesn’t mean anything at all. In short, the message from the developers here is, “It’s a video game about animatronics turning into monsters, you’re putting way too much effort into trying to analyze it. Just enjoy the game for what it is.” And IMOHO, that's true with Zelda. It's a series of games where a hero fights monsters and saves a princess from a villain - Bellisario's Maxim, folks.

[@briancorvello3620]

That's an... interesting theory. Anyone here a Brony? If you are, you might know there's a subset of Bronys who think that Nightmare Moon (NOT Luna) was a misunderstood visionary, whose goal to create the Night That Never Ends was an attempt to turn Equestria into a beautiful paradise. Well... There is a fanfic called Pony Psychology by an author who believes such fans are full of prunes. In this fanfic, Luna starts to wonder if her dark alter-ego had a point there, and Celestia isn't buying it. In order to set her sister straight here, she gives a Luna a lecture (in rather horrid and scientifically accurate detail) about the environmental disaster that Nightmare Moon's plan might have caused had it succeeded (which, btw, the writers of the canon source have stated would have been the result). It seems likely this was meant to give the same lecture to the "subset" of fans. The argument you make about Null is certainly a unique look on it, but in the end, Null is no more a sympathetic victim than beings with similar goals - Cthulhu comes to mind.

[@ChampionOfHyrule-]

Null was just chillin in the void and then we destroyed his life. Poor guy.

[@IHTACast]

It’s the methods that make null evil. Intents matter, but they don’t trump method.

[@joshiboshi6878]

Maybe the real Null were the villains we made along the way... wait what?

[@Jakey_777]

I never even thought about it from nulls point of view. He was just minding his own business.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Exactly!

[@Ninjaananas]

He was devouring all existance that emerged. He was selfish.

[@theblitzblader3967]

@@Ninjaananas Except the creation of existence itself pained him. He was not selfish.

[@Ninjaananas]

@@theblitzblader3967 Then it was either him or all of creation.

[@theblitzblader3967]

@@Ninjaananas Right and he chose himself. Just like creation chose itself. Null wasn't in the wrong though.

[@Nat13333]

Dang that was actually kinda sad, amazing video!

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Thanks!

[@ZombieLeo94]

I already was aware of this theory. I was just waiting for someone to make a video. Also, have you noticed that Null looks like a giant version of Tri. The goddesses designed the Tris in Null’s image.

[@Heruilli]

so long story short, we are bad guys because the selfish, all devouring monster didn't want to share a world that doesn't belong to him. It doesn't belong to him because even if he was there first he wasn't meant to be alone.

[@theblitzblader3967]

who are you to say he's not meant to be alone null desired isolation and things kept taking it away from him. Maybe you missed the part where null was put in pain because of the existence of others.

[@Heruilli]

@theblitzblader3967 if other creatures emerged it's because he wasn't sipposed to be alone. Plus the three goddes didn't emerged, they where just here, or they would have been swallowed too. Which mean it's not his world but the world he lives in among others beings.

[@theblitzblader3967]

@Heruilli No just because something happened doesn't give or take away meaning from something else. It was his world because he was the only thing that existed at the time.

[@Heruilli]

@theblitzblader3967 but th were did the goddesses come from? They didn't appear or they would have been swallowed

[@SuperMetalyrics]

Haven't played yet, so I won't finish watching yet..but: this so far seems fitting for the downfall timeline. Confusion, destruction, pain for those in light and in darkness

[@MikePhantom]

So are you ignoring the part where it as stated that null denied anything else to exist before the godesses came? Null is aselfish being that took countless chances away of other life to even exist. Null is most definetely the villain. It literally states to destroy and consume everything itself.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

I'm not ignoring the other life forms. But is Null really being selfish for just trying to get rid of life forms that invaded upon his space? Wouldn't it just be like you and me killing pests, spiders, and bed bugs, in the houses that we lived in first?

[@briancorvello3620]

@ZeldianGamer-231 A point of view held by the Great Old Ones of Lovecraft's works, I believe. The simply want to exterminate the vermin infesting Earth, because they feel it belongs to them, can that truly be called "evil"? Lol, sarcasm there, it certainly IS evil.

[@MikePhantom]

@ZeldianGamer-231 the thing is the space was infinite and yet null most definitely had enough space for itself. but it wanted it all for itself. selfish and the destructions of other beings not even doing anything to it is evil. this is not some grey morality thing. null is absolutely evil

[@HylianRetriever]

Yes! So true! He was right now thinking about it.

[@ZonaiEngineer]

Wow, I never thought about that. Now I feel bad for null. Great video!

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Thanks!

[@Cliffordlonghead]

why did'nt the goddess just make him his own world then non of echoes would happen. well apart from the whole demise thing and his curse.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Yeah there are all lot of what-ifs that could have happened, which would've changed the game entirely

[@timothyfrasier8218]

Null is evil darkness is born to protect the light no tries to destroy the light which destroys darkness darkness cannot exist without light and light cannot exist without darkness so yes Null is still the evil one in fact he's one of the worst villains there is. He's also the reason why demise and Ganon exist.

[@AxABeats]

Great video ngl, bumped you to 595

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Thank you so much!!!

[@AxABeats]

@ yeah of course

[@AxABeats]

@ hope you like our new lofi

[@HALLLLP]

I mean, its similar to ganondorf's story in WW, goddesses flood all of hyrule, he blames all of the suffering on them, when in reality he's engineering more than was created by the goddesses

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Right, it is similar to WW! I also feel a little bad for Ganondorf in that game

[@HALLLLP]

@ZeldianGamer-231 he... he.... HE KIDNAPPED CHILDREN!! HOW DO YOU FEEL BAD FOR HIM??

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

I said A LITTLE. I just feel bad for the reason he became evil. He just wanted a land for his people (right?) but obviously he deserved to die the way he did in the end. And now that i think about it, Nulls story and that, aren't that similar. Ganondorf wasn't that innocent to begin with, unlike Null.

[@HALLLLP]

he didn't just start off "evil", he was upset at the goddesses for what they did, and thats why he was evil. null was upset for what the goddesses had done, so thats why he was evil

[@TheZeldaGuy905]

Wow, now I’m starting to feel guilty. Null was just peacefully living in his home when we imprisoned him, and then we killed him. You made some greats points.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Right! And although he really is just nothing, you would think he wouldn't care or have feelings. But it's different because in this game, "nothingness" was in the form of a being / character And thanks😊

[@imabird2676]

I like this theory and interpretation, but im curious, is there anything saying the lights were harming null?

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

I do realize that it's never explicitly said that the lights are painful. I was merely embellishing upon the story. But even if they cause no pain, everything else the lights and the goddesses did didn't feel right to me.

[@sirmnrt]

Nope hero’s don’t do that. Zelda and Link is still the hero.

[@Epicgamer1ultra456]

I haven’t played echoes of wisdom in months and where I left off was inside null so I didn’t fight him now my experience will be a bit different

[@redonslaught3019]

Gannon did always say he was the champion against the Evil Goddesses, so Link has always been the real villain...

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

In certain cases maybe.... Lol

[@SirLizalfos]

This is a very insightful video! But I must say, just because Null was there first doesn't mean he has the right to destroy the world, despite his quite tragic tale and obliviousness. Zelda's intention wasn't to destroy him just because, but to save Hyrule from being completely sucked into a void, thousands upon thousands of innocents... dying. Null may have a broken story, may not be treated justice and was just going around his business, but consuming the world in a void is no solution (but I guess Zelda killing him isn't necessarily one either). What an amazing video! Great work, I've never played Echoes of Wisdom so this is probably just an ignorant thought 😅

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

It's more like Null was just fighting back and defending himself and his home. Just taking back what was taken from him. And by doing that, yes a bunch of innocent people got in the way. But that is more on the goddesses' fault for allowing life to grow on top of a prison. They should have realized that he was going to try to escape. And since we do play as Zelda, of course I feel good saving the king and our friends. But from Null's point of view, we're just in the way of him living the way he used to. Anyway, thanks for your input and kind words! 😁

[@Seadetwave]

Well you can See it both ways Null just wants Peace.....by destroying everything that Annoys him just wanting to live in the Void But than Light Puts him in Pain and Anger and after a Long Time the Godesses come in and ban Null into the Center of there World There i have two Question 1. Where do the Godesses come from? Like do they come from a different World and entered Null's Did They just Pop up on nothingness ? 2. Couldn't the Godesses have found a Way to stop Null by Banning him into a different Dimension/World where there is nothing and no way out or in ?

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Those are some good questions. I also wondered where they came from. And like you said he could've been placed in another dimension, but also, they banned him to such a small space why couldn't they have divided up the vast empty space to a more even world for both Null and the goddesses? Like they gave him such a small world, when there was plenty for everyone.

[@Seadetwave]

@ Yep there could literally be endless

[@Seadetwave]

@ by the Way will give you a Sub ^^

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Thank you!!! 😊

[@chadnorris8257]

Honestly I thought what they'd do is purify Null. Take away his insatiable hunger, s he's not so completely destructive. But they just erased him. I'd like to have known more about him.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

Yes! It was definitely extreme to just out right have him killed. He could've been a big giant Tri leader or something Lol

[@ItsMeINKMASTER]

I mean, it's true, we really mistreated null, :'(

[@StickTooNs-l6i]

Wow I didn't think it like that. you're right null didn't deserve that Poor guy. And yeah I know what you mean by I didn't feel any accomplishment at the end when you kill null it's sad.

[@ManiacMorganGaming]

Still, if it’s always peaceful, no one will ever be happily

[@RGamer1702]

Alright now I feel bad. But who cares? It’s a video game!

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

I dunno, it doesn’t really seem like a fair conflict. Sure, Null was there first, but he doesn’t seem like an innocent victim, given its inability to coexist with any other entity that just so happened to come into existence. Null was pretty much hogging everything for itself.

[@ZeldianGamer-231]

@@geoffreyrichards6079 I totally understand. But I can't really blame him. He was just existing, when something new and different appeared so of course he's going to see it as a threat. And then the goddesses didn't even give him a chance and imprisoned him without any explanation. Why didn't they try to negotiate with him and come up with a better solution? So sure, it seems that both parties are in the wrong. Null for hogging everything, and the goddesses for wrongly imprisoning him and not talking it through first. And really this is a very difficult situation and I don't really know if there is a perfect solution. Anyway, thank you so much for commenting!😁

[@BearDragon-qq5di]

This has a nice perspective change than bull being evil just like ganon, but I might be wrong about this, since I haven’t played the game in a while, but I’m pretty sure null’s concept is that the only thing he feels is greed, being proven by there being no other emotion after the final fight is won, just null saying to give him the prime energy. I’m also pretty sure that it never states that land and organisms burn or feel painful to him, but I also kinda understand wanting it to go back to nothing, kinda like sleep. Waking up isn’t painful, but it stops the experience of sleep. I do agree that the goddesses are in the wrong, in a way. The goddesses could have just made hyrule, then made a barrier around it. That just makes it so that null still has infinite nothingness, just there’s a bit of life chilling with a barrier around it. I don’t see the point of saying that Zelda is the villain though, she just tried to save everyone. I still love the video by the way, since it added a whole new perspective I never thought about.

[@briancorvello3620]

Oh, now Ganon is someone I can indeed feel sorry for. He (along with Link and Zelda) are cursed with a never-ending cycle of life, death, and rebirth due to the dying curse of a being who is unmistakenly evil. As such, Ganondorf/Ganon carries the cruelty, hatred and rage of Demise, and could not atone even if he wanted to. Even if he DOES want to. And while Link and Zelda share the same curse, at least they are admired and loved, the two of them facing destiny as a team. Ganon is feared and despised, facing it alone. Maybe it's for the best, and it's the whole "balance between good and evil" stuff, but it's easy to see that of the three of them, Ganondorf was dealt the worst hand.

[@MarshallTheArtist]

Can't tell if Buddhist or edge-lord.

[@Dwight_In_Armor]

what about the clones whats that all about

[@love2skydive4life]

That’s deep’s 🤯

[@chaossnowkitsune6377]

Honestly, I can understand Null. If someone came into my house and took over I'd be fucking pissed. There would be be bad times ahead.

[@crumbs-vx5tj]

Is null a he?

[@green_plad]

no but also not a she. null is literally nothing and just consumes so it wasnt given a gender in the game, just referred to by name