The Truth About 90s Basketball

Seeing the talented Centers and Big Men that we have in the NBA led me to ask where the evolution really took place. Here I pinpoint a start that most people never mention, nor does the NBA mention it. So what do ya'll think? Did Magic Johnson and Shaquille O'Neal evolve the big man?

[@Allegro_Giusto]

Man the 90’s, the jerseys, the rivalrys, the characters, the nicknames, the tactics, the DEFENSE, iconic players, iconic era.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I agree! Especially the jerseys lol

[@rafikz77]

Overrated too

[@JimmyCarter978]

It was definitely better

[@sebastianliwinski222]

I loved the All Star Game jerseys,so unique.

[@sebastianliwinski222]

In 1996, Shaq should have gotten the MVP in All Stars game, not MJ.

[@telemakhos31]

Magic Johnson's videos are still mind blowing for nowadays standards

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Agreed! Nowadays 3rd option players can hit turnarounds like Jordan yet almost no player passes like Magic Johnson

[@holypoop88]

@@Jayson.Estrera But they cant, let alone 99% of the league

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@@holypoop88 what you mean?

[@holypoop88]

@@Jayson.Estrera 3rd option players hitting turn-arounds like MJ... let alone 99% league being able to do it

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@holypoop88 well when MJ started hitting the turnarounds it was still resistive new nowadays players can hit the move do they hit it as consistently no but they all practice it now

[@sebastianliwinski222]

Best of 90's for sure. Legendary era of competitive Basketball!!!.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Yeah it was a great time!

[@rafikz77]

😂competitive An nostalgia

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@rafikz77 what you saying about today's NBA? LOL

[@Kuroganemk2]

wasn't really that competitive when you realise that 1 team dominated the whole era lol

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@Kuroganemk2 from 1980-1990 the Lakers and celtics won 8/10 championships and from 2000-2010 the Lakers and Spurs won 8/10 are those decades non competitive also?

[@targetegrat]

The Suns vs Bulls finals. That was the epitome of 90s basketball

[@Jayson.Estrera]

That Sun's team had great jerseys and a awesome team!

[@creed200569]

Suns were a scary team. MJ knew he had to step up big time to beat that team.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@creed200569 the Sun's just had no one to match Jordan or offset the match up rough cause they were a good team even before barkley got there

[@georgiosgrigoriadis6200]

Crazy series man, i agree

[@johnming73]

Shaq looks like Kingpin sitting in his chair .

[@Jayson.Estrera]

🤣🤣🤣 Marvel should do it!

[@300deebo]

Anybody know Hakeem Olajuwon? Tim Duncan was great, but Hakeem was better.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Thats a hot take! Lol I love Hakeem personally one of my favorites. But Tim Duncan beats him out in accomplishments and individually they were real close so taking both into account Tim Duncan edges him

[@lcchill]

This is the best big man era since the 90s!!

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I think the original big men like Wilt and Russell don't even belong in this convo simply because times were different they were pioneers. So I want to actually agree with you on this take. More versatility than ever and the top players are big men or really tall skilled players

[@Sldumas1983]

@@Jayson.Estrerarespect to your channel but to say Wilt and Russell don’t belong is crazy to me, Remember Wilt and Russell was not allowed to do some of these things yet they could plus Wilt and Russell was ahead of their time and both men played other sports Wilt had all the skills but again was not allowed to do all these things. Wilt was the All time leading scorer for a long time until Kareem even. Never count the old school out you always find something new you never knew 👍🏿

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@Sldumas1983 all respect to the old players and the history of the game those two need to be on the Mt Rushmore of the sport. However the game has evolved drastically and to no fault of their own they were playing lesser comp. I think they deserve their own category basically to give them their respect that's all I was trying to say

[@owensmith2137]

The 2000s with all those power forwards was way better

[@lcchill]

When it comes to centers this era is definitely better than the 2000s@@owensmith2137

[@VelhaGuardaTricolor]

1:40 Right there you exposed your BIAS. Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant force ever. Shaq comes a semi close second.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I don't know how much I'm getting exposed of course I have some bias I along with the most other people only saw one of those 2 play a full game of basketball. And I've gone over this many times we're talking about a 402 pound center that was quick with a consistent jumphook never said he's more skilled or even better but PLAYERS call him the most dominant it ain't just me

[@VelhaGuardaTricolor]

@@Jayson.Estrera I don't know if you are aware of a thing called MARKETING. The "the most dominant" line was conjured up to draw importance to him. After all, what is the point of going on and on about some guys who have long retired? I don't mind the MARKETING, I mind people not understanding what is MARKETING and what is reality. Bball is a business and hype is part and parcel of what a business will do in order to draw bigger audiences. Joe Rogan (in MMA) must have said at least 200 times "This is the most amazing fighter I have ever seen". I don't hate him for it, he is a promoter after all, but I separate one thing from the other. Wilt was a monster. That is a fact. Cheers!

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@VelhaGuardaTricolor @VelhaGuardaTricolor I hear what you're saying about marketing however when it's players that played against him even players from the 80s who very easily could have sided with their Era still calling him the most dominant i think that there's value in that. No one ever put up Wilt numbers because no one has ever put up Wilt numbers probably never will but for what Shaq did at his size in the modern NBA and the physicality he brought to the game he was according to a lot of players the most dominant. I agree with you Wilt is a monster and ultimately this "most dominant" debate revolves around the 2 of them only lol thanks for the comments I appreciate the banter!

[@BigstickNick]

Splitting hairs here. But Wilt was more athletic. Shaq was just dominant in terms physicality. Neither of them had to be fun to defend tho

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@BigstickNick all I keep talking about is physicality Shaq's shear size was a problem and he was doing this in the modern NBA I agree Wilt was amazing and put up videogame numbers but Shaq was such a massive human that was still athletic and had some skill that's all I'm speaking on

[@adrianleverkin5226]

good shit, keep it up

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Thank you I really appreciate that!!!

[@JamaicanMeCrazy]

I know Kareem played mostly in the 80s but that was the unstoppable duo... Like how do you defend against magics wizardry and Captain skyhook

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Yup they could play fast and had a unstoppable big in the half court

[@digitalcommunist6335]

Wtf u talking about lmao. As good as Shaq was he was made to look like fool playing against Hakeem. A true modern NNA goat center.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

What does NNA mean? And you're comparing a 11 year vet on his way to the hall of fame vs a 3rd year player. You're talking about an obviously inexperienced Shaq.

[@danieldbdb]

Disagree. I believe Garnett and Dirk were PFs because they had good agility and were good midrange shooters. While Tim was PF because Robinson was center. But he became a center for a long time afterwards, probably because he wasn't too agile and so good at mid range shooting, while a great defender. We know great defense as Center is more important than at PF to shut the paint down.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I agree that they are both PFs but Garnett has admitted that he purposely said he was 6'11 because he didn't want to be put into a box as a "big man" plus towards the end of his career he was playing the Center. And agreed that Tim Duncan slid to the 4 cause Robinson was there but when Robinson retired he was considered a PF for another 6 years until he got switched in 09 so for 2/3 of his career he was a PF. I do think there were plenty of factors that pushed these players to the 4 spot and i think Shaq and his dominance was 1 and another was the fact that through the 90s the 4 man was the unskilled enforcer on most teams so these skilled bigs were able to take advantage of that

[@atlnla4112]

Yes. Duncan played 5 in college but was too small to play 5 in the pros AND they had David Robinson, but after Robinson and other true centers faded out of the game and away from the basket Duncan and Dirk were considered 5’s at times but they were always truly 4’s.

[@pp-vf8ls]

uh..you probably should add Laimber drop your hate-glass for him, but he is the first prototype center that mould into this generation

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Don't have hate for him at all I think that's a good point that he and other big men began shooting more jumpers in general and don't really get the credit for it

[@pp-vf8ls]

@@Jayson.Estrera yea, its unfortunate that he is a great player but very intentionally wants to injured his star opponent

[@ClayHales]

Ironically there isn't a lot of call for someone with old school center skills in a point guard's body. Only old school center skills.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

True cause of size. But up until the 2000s point guards were still posting up, that isn't really in the game anymore outside of a player like SGA or Luka are the only 2 that come to mind

[@rabarberellum1017]

It’s a good thing Shaq got into basketball, cause he has this real maffia kingpin quality in him

[@Jayson.Estrera]

LOL straight business

[@Sldumas1983]

Ummm I guess everyone forgot about Wilt Chamberlain who is really the most dominant Center in history, And for a Big man could do what any of these guys could do and better, Wilt created the fade away jumper, Love Shaq he was not on Wilts level

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Everyone has been commenting this as if most players haven't said the same sentiment. No one said he's more skilled but the fact that everyone who has commented this fails to understand the simple fact that Shaq was 400 pounds at one point and teams literally could not defend him simply due to his size

[@Sldumas1983]

@@Jayson.Estrera ok cool, I guess

[@Ma1q444]

What is that segment called? Where they are all talking about basketball

[@Jayson.Estrera]

The show is called open court and I believe the episode was my generation or something like that awesome show!

[@SP.007]

0:09 - If Arvydas Sabonis came over in the mid 80s, do you think it would changed the game for the big men in that era. Big men shooting 3s, opening up the lane in a zone-less NBA.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Yeah I think he could have had an influence on the style for sure! If you check out the full length video on the evolution of big men I highlight the fact that shooting is only one aspect of the evolution and the only aspect that most people talk about. I bring up the fact that players like Magic Johnson and others really started the trend of big men handling the ball and and initiating offenses

[@ClayHales]

I think it would have helped open our eyes, but for the most part he would be a novelty. It was so ingrained in our thinking that this size is a 1, this size is a 2, on to this size is a 5, that people got pigeon holed into a position and trained those skills. We didn't have the bigs even thinking about training those skills, let alone have them at a decent level. I think the slow evolution of the game has a lot more big kids wanting to be shooting, passing ball handlers that the ones that get NBA big are more likely to have shooting range.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@ClayHales I agree those positions and their roles were definitely taught and enforced even in the NBA. That's why seeing tall players like Magic and the Forwards in the 90s in my opinion is what really started the big man evolution

[@Amuseddaysleeper]

No Mention of Bird? Lame of Webber

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Well maybe cause he picked up the ball handling and point guard skills rather than the shooting? Also I do agree with you that Bird was crucial to the evolution of basketball he was like 6'10 shooting 3s

[@ducatarina]

The evolution started with Dr. J

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Fair he can be credited tall lanky athletic guard. Just never seen many clips of his ball handling and playmaking

[@RANDOM-THINGSX]

c.web one of my fav player..

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Definitely one of the best 4s we've ever seen

[@PringlesCan-y7m]

this whole video is stupid. big men werent told they couldnt do it, they were just told to stop failing at doing it. wilt did it all the time. nobody was ever telling big men that could handle the ball not to. also,

[@Jayson.Estrera]

So Chris Webber was just lying about his experience growing up? Lol

[@PringlesCan-y7m]

@@Jayson.Estrera not intentionally, he probably made some bad plays when throwing it out to the guard on the break would have been quicker since he's slow and probably would have resulted in a score, but instead he took the criticism as "big men arent allowed to run the point." Ask Magic the same question because obviously everyone was all for him being able to run the point because of his skills. very rare for a big man to have those skills.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@user-xu5xj3ym4k well by definition you're saying he's lying about his experience going through the ranks going through camps and different teams where that was a common sentiment that big men SHOULD be back to the basket post up players. Like anything there are outliers

[@PringlesCan-y7m]

@@Jayson.Estrera they should be back to the basket post players, if they can't dribble or shoot like a guard. those that could were never told to shut up and go post up. if you know anything about Cwebb he wasn't a great shooter and didnt have great handles. He was an amazing inside player with great court sense and creativity. if he had any drive and competitiveness he could have been top 10 all time.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@user-xu5xj3ym4k I think a player like Hakeem could have benefited from a less structured offense cause he was agile and had a handle when he took players further from the basket he had moves but for the most part throw it to him in the post. If Barkley had coaches early on urging him to be more of a slasher than a post up big his game could have looked totally different. When you said Webber probably made some bad plays on a fast break but there are highlights of him going coast to coast handling the ball so no I don't think it was that simple it just wasn't encouraged.

[@lukemorganbball5621]

No better big in 90s than Hakeem and they all said so..not close..

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Rankings or not he's personally one of my favorite big men ever so good!

[@odyssey205]

According to someone from today’s era, 90’s players were a bunch of plumbers. I hope they watch this and learn.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Who said?

[@odyssey205]

@@Jayson.Estrera I forgot the name

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@@odyssey205 is it possible they were talking about older generations of players like the 60s 70s?

[@odyssey205]

@@Jayson.Estrera no, definitely the 90’s

[@odyssey205]

@@Jayson.Estrera one of those LeQueen fans And there was another one , which O thought the dumbest comeback ever. He reckons, Jordan didn’t win 6 titles, Phil Jackson did. They will say anything to discredit MJ.

[@mr.fancypants1524]

For me, the aftermath of the Malice at the Palace completely changed the game to what it is today. Hand checking became illegal. Referees were the new enforcers, because players could not act professional enough to regulate the action on their own. The physical era died, and the flop era was born.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I agree that the Malice at the Palace was a huge turning point. Even though I believe that the NBA was already on their way to trying to make the game more offensive ever since Jordan, that brawl definitely forced them to make changes immediately.

[@ATFstein]

Shaq is not 7 foot two he is 7 foot one and he has always been 7 foot one

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Thanks for the catch!

[@sebastianliwinski222]

They used to measure height with their sneakers on, I did my research on that. Kobe was actually 6'4". Weird I'm from Europe and they used to measure us bare feet on medical.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@sebastianliwinski222 yeah I'll keep it a buck I know shaq is 7'1 idk what came over me to say 7'2 lmao and yeah I've heard that too. People said Iverson wasn't even 6 feet. The only time it went the other way was someone like KG who never wanted to be called a 7 footer

[@johnnybraxton5539]

With shoe's I'm sure shaq is 7"2

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@johnnybraxton5539 buddy was definitely nit picking but I'm cool with getting corrected lol

[@rambotan5867]

We need wnba players in the nba.. so we could promote diversity

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Wait what now?

[@cognitivedisability9864]

Bruh 😂

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@@cognitivedisability9864 🤣🤣🤣

[@lemontadams3029]

It's coming Griner is a man

[@Al.j.Vasquez]

And now we have Scottie Pippen and company shitting on MJ, themselves and EVERYONE from the 90s, by stating shit like "we played the game wrong" and "The new generation is much better than us", I'm glad that everyone's reception has been negative towards those claims, the 90s made the game worldwide famous, fhere is so much culture in the 90s NBA that it would be sad if the media goes along with it just to uplift this lackluster new generation.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I agree with you that the 80s and 90s really laid the foundation for the basketball we see today. However I also think that the "ring culture" narrative, which in my opinion was created to undermine other players who don't win championships despite their accomplishments. I think that these guys who found so much team success shitting on their experience takes away from that championship argument when people are ranking players and constantly pointing at championships more than their individual skill and production.

[@Al.j.Vasquez]

@@Jayson.Estrera Oh yeah, absolutely, only talking about rings is a very shallow argument, production and impact are much more important to compare players than rings alone. Saying that MJ is better than for example, LeBron James, just because he won more times, is sooo bad, and sooo empty, it actually underrates Jordan and what he did on the court. There are plenty of players that deserve respect, praise and should be blueprints for the new generation, and that didn't win a single ring.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@DJKHOTTA agreed 100%! A lot of people are slept on!

[@michaelbrain3820]

Big men never ran the break since the 50s? ... Ah .. have you heard of Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell? What you talkin bout Willis!

[@Jayson.Estrera]

We're not about to act like it was common for taller players to bring the ball up cause it wasn't

[@oteliogarcia1562]

Shaq isn't 7'2" though. He is tall, but not that tall.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I have already been corrected on this lol yes he's 7'1, minor mistake but a mistake nonetheless

[@hasadiahjones620]

That's the point everyone on the court is a threat now. Everyone has to do something are you aint getting on the court

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I agree! I'm simply trying to credit the right people. For a long time the narrative was that Dirk and the European style is what evolved the game with stretch 4s, and I think that that's only half of the truth. Seeing players like Magic and Webber handling the ball playing guard like beyond just spotting up and shooting, I think they also deserve their credit for evolving the game.

[@RicoBanani]

calling Tim Duncan skinny is crazy. Skinnyer than Shaq for sure. But who isnt besides Oliver Miller

[@Jayson.Estrera]

I mean he didn't look like David Robinson neither it's simply his body type he wasn't shredded he wasn't jacked and he wasn't fat. It's not a comment on how in shape he is or what not. I don't see what the problem is here

[@RicoBanani]

@@Jayson.Estrera the problem is, I imagined how huge Duncan is in real life. and then tried adding "skinnyer" to describe him. it made me laugh is all. what happened to the video though? it seems as it got cut off

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@tkosamjatosamja5615 I agree with you in comparison to everyone else yeah lol but in the league physically he was more lanky I know he wasn't light in weight but that was just his body. And check out the full video! It's on my page kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZvSq4psfMami5Ysi=fiv-e34gUoTvj2Nk

[@thereasonwhy5188]

Not easily the most dominate Wilt

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Not true I've explained this many times in this same comment section

[@theetruth8626]

​@@Jayson.Estrerait's very true u very uneducated

[@doug6723]

If Shaq was the most dominant force ever in the NBA. Why didn't he average anywhere close to Wilt's numbers. In fact Wilt's points and rebounds are close to being double Shaq's. 50 points and 27 rebounds for a season.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Never said he had better numbers hell doesn't even mean he's better. I could ask you the same thing he doubled all his stats but has half the amount of championships how does that work?

[@doug6723]

@@Jayson.Estrera The most dominant. Dominant would be reflected in stats. The most important being points, assists, rebounds blocks and steals. Wilt avg 30 pts 22.9 Reb, 4 assists, 8 blocks and shot 54% from the field. Shaq 23 10 rb 2 assists 2 blocks per game on. 58% shooting. So Wilt beats Shaq in every statistical category. Championships are a team effort. I've never seen a single player make it to the NBA championship on his own.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@doug6723 every person that has debated me over this keeps bringing up stats but the only stat I'm valuing is 402 pounds damn near every great big in history is giving up about 100 pounds to him. He was physically the most dominant player we've seen. There's a reason PLAYERS reiterate this sentiment

[@doug6723]

@@Jayson.Estrera Your only stat is how fat and undisciplined Shaq was that he got to 400 pounds? Great stat! Wilt was stronger, faster, more explosive than Shaq. He could bench more and would blow past Shaq especially when Shaq got obese. Wilt was famous for playing the entire game without a sub. Players nowadays talk about how dominant Shaq was but clearly you never watched or heard people talk about how strong Wilt was. One player said he intentionally tried to foul Wilt. He grabbed on, Wilt dunked the ball with a 240 pound player hanging on him. Wilt would just shoot three point sky hooks on Shaq all day. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmGsdGuErNCXZ9k Wilt as a 50 yr old played against Magic and a number of Lakers and with college players beat them and held them to zero points.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@doug6723 I mean we could play the stat game. In the NBA Finals Wilt averaged 24.6 18.6 and 3.8 for his career and Shaq averaged 28.8 13.1 and 3.4 for his career. Meanwhile in Wilt's only Finals MVP he averaged 19.4 23.2 and 2.6 while through 3 of Shaqs Finals MVPs he averaged 35.8 14.9 and 3.6 dominating in the biggest series. But like I said I'm basing this off his physicality from his shear size combined with quickness and touch it was unreal and players agree

[@mainelettuce9040]

Wth??? I get into the video and then it just ends??? If your gonna make these types of videos, they need to be long enough to finish your thoughts.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4WzZZ6pmZWbo6Msi=ECxa-xisFu7bmvjI

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Hey this is a clip from the full length video on my channel thanks for showing interest still trying to figure this whole youtube thing out lol

[@maxdurk4624]

No offense, but that Shaq point is dumb af.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Lol you're good that's the point of stuff like this this. But I'm not the only one that has this line of thinking kzbin.info3Fct_TzjCJE?si=XBR4tXsiDP3ObE1d

[@PatriotsVideos]

Despite Wilt Chamberlin averaging 50 points per game for an entire season - not to mention Bill Russell's unquestioned GOAT status - Shaq is "easily" the most dominant big man in NBA history? Why are you talking? You sound like you're 15 years old and you clearly have no knowledge about the history of the NBA. Just shut up.

[@dylanjwebmusic]

Obvious troll

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@@dylanjwebmusic who?

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@PatriotsVideos Yeah Wilt averaged 50 against players who didn't even play basketball full time mfs had to go get jobs after the season it wasn't his fault but that's skewed. And Bill Russell was 215 pounds so he weighs as much as a modern day point guard and you're wondering why Shaq is considered by most including players to be the most dominant big man, not the most skilled not even necessarily the best but the most dominant cause people could not defend 400 pounds.

[@PatriotsVideos]

@@Jayson.Estrera The NBA made up rules to stop Wilt. They made up rules to help Shaq dominate. The idea that Wilt could have a 4 foot area around the rim where he couldn't commit an offensive foul is the funniest thing in the history of sports. You're laughable ignorant.

[@davidporter671]

@Jayson.E Love Shaq but to say he’s easily the most dominant is just stupid. You clearly have an extreme bias against older players. You do sound like someone who doesn’t respect the history of it. You’re just wrong bro

[@viewfinder1030]

The most overrated era in NBA history. Those overweight power forwards and “tough guy enforcers” who couldn’t shoot, wouldn’t make it today.

[@Jayson.Estrera]

Idk about overrated there were a lot of great players, skills weren't developed yet especially for the power forward. I think that the game was so physical partly due to the fact that some players weren't very skilled and relied on other ways to be successful

[@joncabotxox9389]

And now the game is ruined

[@Jayson.Estrera]

What don't you like about it?

[@joncabotxox9389]

@@Jayson.Estrera There’s no balance with anything with the NBA anymore. The list of things I don’t like are way too long to list here. But here are a couple…. The defensive rules make it way easier for the offensive players. It’s plain as day that the league instructs the refs how to manipulate the game for certain players and teams. The amount of 3s have ruined how the game used to be played, the balance. I can go on and on in more detail. The game has changed so much that it’s not even the same game that grew up watching. It’s completely different and not fun anymore. If you were able to watch the game back then and compare it to now then you would agree

[@Jayson.Estrera]

@joncabotxox9389 I agree with you that for a long time the league was trying to raise the scoring for entertainment purposes. However recently they have been changing rules to help defense for example the kicking on fadeaways which yes some players kick but it's a natural movement when you fade away, they now allow defenders contact on the shooters follow through as long as they already released the ball so maybe they're trying to correct some things. I do think that analytics has had a bad effect on basketball and is the reason for all the threes I have a video coming out on that too lol