The TRUTH about Mismatching Your Speakers. What They Didn't Tell You...

[@NickkaDUB]

I used to repeat the rhetoric of at the very least keeping the center channel within the same line of speakers. I used to sell, design and build home theaters. I have enough surround sounds throughout the house that I was able to test the theory of matching the front 3 speakers with the same exact speakers. I’ve found that most center channel speakers aren’t as good as the floorstanding speakers, but the tone of the voices are still extremely similar even with all different types of speakers with ranging mids and especially the tweeters. You obviously have to mess with the gains and EQ, but for movies you can usually get away with most centers. I do find that trying to listen to music in all channel stereo is where it threw things off for me. I’ll also say that all the towers that I was able to test this with all went down to at least 30Hz. Most of the centers all went down to 50Hz aside from a Bose that only went to 100Hz. The centers I used were a Klipsch with 4 6”, Cerwin Vega with 4 5 1/4”, 2 Pioneer Elite’s with 6 1/2” and 5 1/4’s, a JBL with 7”, Bose with 6 1/2 and a smaller longer Bose with 3”, then lastly a Def Tech with 5 1/4 with a built in sub and bass radiators. Like I said, I had floorstanding to match all but the smallest Bose. Mostly all of the Centers were all equally as good at matching dialogue as most didn’t matchup the equality of the floorstanding speakers. So my finding was either match with all the same floorstanding or the center can be almost any decent center as long as you are able to do your bass management, understand distance and gain and have a room without a lot of reflection. I was also only listening from the sweet spot. Most centers aren’t hitting the lower bass needed to make a difference so it doesn’t make a big difference with dialogue. All channel stereo or full mono (all speakers playing the same thing) is where you will hear and feel the difference. I hope I explained it where most people can understand it. The problem with self proclaimed Audiophiles is that they don’t want to go through the hassle of dialing in what’s needed for each individual speaker. They don’t want to take the time to do the bass management and dial in the gain of each speaker. They want to leave everything flat and then judge something. It’s just like the videophiles who only want to watch movies in a dark room where everything is at 6500* and too warm. Every room is different, and every eye and ear is different as well. Every budget is different and there’s no real industry standards, especially for the cost. Dolby doesn’t even give us accurate guidelines (see Techno Dad about his recent findings. Dolby doesn’t want to talk about it because a lot of theaters have been following their incorrect guidelines and would need to be adjusted which’s very expensive work). You will never be fully content with what you have because they keep coming out with little tweaks to our gear so we have to keep buying. So try to sit back and relax and enjoy whatever gear you do have. Be thankful that you can hear.

[@ryanschipp8513]

While I agree it's the best idea to match the front stage, in my experience it doesn't have to be matching. Sometimes you can experiment and make it work well. My right and left are Canton 890.2. I somewhat recently added a Polk Audio 706c. Even though on paper it seems they wouldn't match well it sounds glorious. I have dedicated power amps on all three channels. Considering about 70% of the sound comes out of the center Channel I feel sometimes you can get away with mismatching. No offense on your satellite speaker example. If anyone does some research they will realize that they shouldn't have a tiny little center-channel as a speaker. Also, all AV receivers allow you to play with output on each Channel, or level. That way you can do test tones and match volume even if the sensitivity differs. Just my two cents. I appreciate your videos.

[@Echo-jg8is]

You sound like a person who has never heard a linear sound system, if you had you would never make that comment...

[@ryanschipp8513]

@@Echo-jg8is linear equals great-sounding and something that doesn't sound off with the sound. That's exactly what my front stage sounds like even with a different Center Channel. I'm not saying it works all the time. What I am saying go is it is false to say that you can never ever mix the front stage without it sounding nonlinear. I have a product of it and I'm admitting I got lucky. When we watch movies it is blissful. Nothing distracting whatsoever. That is what my ears told me. And everyone in the household. Some people may take your comment as cocky and condescending. Hoping that's not the case. If you want you can come over for a listen

[@Echo-jg8is]

@@ryanschipp8513 I think to really understand what effect a Frankenstein speaker system does to a HC, simply run your pink noise generator and listen ... It sounds terrible right, just like 99 % of every other system out there...Now go visit a AV linear system and run pink noise, perfection, every speakers tone is identical and every speaker is fed by the exact same monoblock amplifier with all speakers equal distance to one Hot Spot...if you use any different speaker, even if it has the same drivers you will automatically get different tone, balance, impedance, resistance, sensitivity, power handling and cosmetics which now requires DSP and amplifier gain adjustments just to correct this problem alone... If you get to hear a linear system then you would reconsider your opinions... Lastly its the only system in the world that can play movies, 2 channel and multi channel music properly... Imagine playing music through different speakers? really bad idea right, who would listen to music through a tower, bipole and inwall speakers for music listening? ...

[@ryanschipp8513]

@@Echo-jg8is the pink noise through my front three speakers sounds absolutely fine and movie playing sounds blissful. I guess I've got to repeat myself. My ears tell me what is right and natural. Your 2-channel example is bizarre. There's much more going on for the most part in the movie than in music. Hence it's more difficult to pick up total differences during a movie. Also consider something you've been ignoring the whole time. About 70% of a movie comes out of the center Channel. That speaker alone is the most important in a home theater setup. Considering there's flashes of content coming out of the right and left channel it's not so over-the-top imperative like you were making it to be that all of them match in the front. I've got living proof and you can come over anytime you want.

[@C--A]

@@Echo-jg8is So you use exactly the same speakers for LCR, Surrounds and Atmos? As music with vocals plays in all speakers in quite a few movies tracks. The majority of people use different speakers for the surrounds and ceiling speakers. Even most hi end dedicated home cinema's.

[@raulgarcia1718]

I have RSL cg5’s with a cg25 center in the front with a speedwoofer 10s sub. The surrounds are Boston acoustic micro 80’s. They actually work very well together and I had the micro 80’s in the front with the cg25 for quite a while. The sound signatures are fairly close so I don’t feel compelled to. Finish the upgrade. But it is a compromise.

[@zachreid1484]

I’ve got a Martin Logan SLM x3 as my front LCR and then Klipsch R5502 in wall speakers for my rear surrounds. Hoping to add some atmos in ceiling speakers - will likely go with Klipsch again to keep it somewhat consistent. All run by a marantz 1711. Super clean and tidy aesthetic and solid sound 👌🏻

[@natanpierce495]

Great video. I had matched speakers (5.1) , JBL- but then my center speaker craped out and I bought a Polk- then I brought up my old Bang & Olufsen up from downstairs (4 Ohm) and some B&O's for my rear channels (4 Ohm) and paired with my Polk Sub woofer. It sounds ok- better than the JBL matched set, but I need some good money to get all matched (KEF) which is what I really want, and cannot afford. My audience thought the downgrade was actually better than what I had. Polk sucks- but it works for this little space for now.

[@bencancio914]

I got all Def Techs some 10 years plus old and one that is one year old in my system..All crossovers set to 80 hz and all are set to full range .. surrounds can handle 200 watts and my fronts and center can handle 300 watts.. receiver pumps out 125 watts each channel ..but I'm getting an amp next year that can give 250 watts each channel

[@mikewallace6923]

If your amp is clean yes do it

[@kimonosobek1]

Thank you for discussing this. I've been looking up and down for this subject - THANKS!

[@Kpaceguy]

Glad it was helpful!

[@o.c.g.m9426]

I have a basic 5.2.4. 5 bedlayer R-51m's and R-41sa's for atmos. I had dolby towers for L & R before but now all bookshelves are all the same sounds much better sound is so much more cohesive

[@rileykgardner]

I just upgraded my speakers. I have the following: Front: SVS Ultra Towers SVS Ultra Center Surround: SVS Prime Pinnacles Surround Back: SVS Ultra Surrounds Atmos: SVS Prime Elevations (Front Heights) SVS Prime Elevations (Rear Heights) Subs: Dual SB-3000s

[@MichaelLHill-fd3kw]

Great information about this and I am sure it will help the wife's that is not understanding of why you need to buy more speakers. Lol!!! I have polk audio front rear and wide. But I have Onkyo 410s for my atmos and I will mostly likely never change them. My surround back are klipsch ss1 and I have polk in wall to replace them with but I have not yet found the best possible solution to install them so I may have to build a box enclosure to install them in but as of now I'm ok with the setup and the thing that I like about the klipsch is how they are designed to fire the highs by firing from the sides and it makes for me a nice blend and the spl and power handling is were they need to be. As far as the Atmos speakers they are built with the proper crossover and they have been rated in the top 10 for best Atmos speakers to buy for any setup and this was tested by a independent company. If I recall they're # 3 on the chart. I wasn't going to buy Atmos speakers because of i didn't think putting them on top of the speakers work, and it didn't so I put them in each corner and adjust them to fire at the listening position and I am very pleased with how it turned out. But as we all know we will upgrade in time. Good job kpace.

[@Kpaceguy]

Don't end up divorced lol

[@ben23a31]

Great H.T. advice... Especially for the novice 👍🏽

[@Kpaceguy]

Thank you my friend!

[@mikewallace6923]

Hi K Space yes all of my speakers match all Paradigm founder series

[@raidendigital1003]

Update: I swapped the JBL E250P for an Infinity PS28, and I swapped the JBL HLS610's for JBL Arena 130's. (Had to add 1 dB to surrounds) Bass is tight and better suited to the room. Crossing at 80Hz with the sub is much smoother, but all speakers set to large is still better for most things. The Arena 130's blend much better with the Studio 570's. The shrillness, and muddiness seams to be gone. It's like 400% more premium now. I set up the HLS610's as stereo 2.0 in another room and played music. They're really good and charming for medium volume music chilaxin' They just don't handle home theater volumes very well, and having them upside down in that application may have been making it worse. Having the HF on top makes the highs pass through the bass energy on the way down to my ears. Arena 130's can't go upside down, cus of similar funny shape as Studio 5. Visually match better too, the JBL badges are exactly the same.

[@raidendigital1003]

JBL Studio 570's are short enough not to be a problem having 3 in your front. They still go on sale for 200 each pretty frequently. So I have encountered issues with running JBL HLS610's as the surrounds to my x3 Studio 570's in the front. It adds a bit of muddiness to they system. Best example; Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. That woman who's with Indy screams a lot and it didn't sound very good at all, it was unpleasant. The 570's get a little bit of muddiness added because they are not bi-amped, the jumper plates cause this. Also studio 5 prefers a class D amp and doesn't sound as good with a normie amp or AVR. Usually the HLS610's can tonally match pretty good, and they certainly visually look like they go with the 570's, but sometimes the muddiness shows. They are a lot older and less advanced. If I get another pair of 530's I guess I could try that, but I don't think they will work good as surrounds. 1. Will port chuff when pushed to the volumes needed. 2. Inefficient and power hungry AF compared to the 570's, So I'd need more powerful amps to even try. 3 they don't work well at distance, they are really only for a desktop 2.0 setup. My 530's on my desk help my workflow so much I've never moved them since they landed there. Even though there's other speakers I want to try on a desk.

[@GB-je5tc]

Hey Kyle, whats the verdict with the switch over in your Atmos layer to SVS? Are they better, are they the same as your experience with Canton height speakers, or are they less in performance? I think it looks just beautiful how you set them up, especially with the cross grill switches. Are you in love with them yet? I have four Elevation piano blacks to go with my DEF TECH BP 10s. They actually complement the DEF TECHS quite ell, how about with your Canton bed layer? Cheers.

[@Kpaceguy]

I like the sound of the cantons better but the angle of the svs and having all 4 match is far better overall

[@MaestroPrep]

I've heard several home theaters running RP8000fII's and 6000fIIs. I have never seen the 6 or 8K II's laying on their sides as a center.. I've never seen an 8 in speaker on a home theater center... So why would a 5 in center work like the 504II's? Isn't this where Dirac come in to play?

[@Kpaceguy]

I've seen people lay them on their sides but it usually doesn't work well if the tweeter isn't in the middle of the speaker. You're supposed to let them stand up like the front left and right. But yes, calibration is supposed to help make them all sound similar to each other

[@brianschulz6462]

How does it play out if you have more expensive of a brand for front LCR, but same brand less expensive series for the rest? I’m looking at this option in Paradigm if I can afford he upgrade

[@Kpaceguy]

That would be fine. It would be ideal if they all had the same tweeter if you can but so long as the front three are matching and your rears are the same as each other, you'll be fine.

[@garyausten5939]

I should be getting a "new" b-stock Klipsch RP504Cii within the next week to replace an R34C. The current one (quad 3 1/2" drivers) sounds OK now, but the new 5 1/4 inch drivers on the 504 will be a much better match for my RP600iis I use for my mains (I can't afford the RC64!). My surrounds are 4 small Polk satellites. Can I replace them with a pair of RP502Ss, being each 502 have 2 speakers each?

[@klauspeterpeter8278]

Hi sir....can i take 3 same standspeakers for left rigt an center...beonze 500 6 g...and 500 6g for left right and bronze 100 for center...thanks

[@Kpaceguy]

Sure

[@johnmimms9167]

is that why you can do manual calibration? It will closely get it to matching perfectly

[@Kpaceguy]

No. Just because you can change frequencies to play lower or louder and set crossovers and etc doesn't mean two different speakers will sound the same. That's like you and me singing a song and someone tells me to be louder and you softer and now we perfectly match.. no.. you sound nothing like me.

[@giomission9209]

I have Q Acoustics 3020i 3090ci and 3060s in the front and cambridge audio minx min12 as my surround. Do they match? I have no idea... I hope so…

[@GB-je5tc]

Bed layer: 7.1 DefTech BP 10s*4, BP8s*2, CLR 2002*1, S-CUBEII*1... Atmos layer: SVS P-ELEVATION *4... 13' x 21' x 8'

[@klauspeterpeter8278]

Hi..sir..is 88,5 sensiviv for a centerl good or not good

[@Kpaceguy]

It's not terrible

[@sergionew7]

So according to this can we Mismatch Subwoofer and height speakers? Sample jamo s803 5.0 + SVS SB-1000 PRO + SVS Prime Elevation Speakers?

[@Kpaceguy]

Yes

[@mauricecatayan3406]

Short of using identical speakers for the main 3, it takes a substantial investment of funds AND time to hunt for a center that "matches" the fronts, or vice versa. Isn't true timbre matching more than just matching the FR, directivity, and dynamics? Isn't timbre the reason a trumpet and a piano sound different, even when they're playing the same note? Maybe it shouldn't be called timbre matching?

[@Kpaceguy]

If that same trumpet starts in the front right speakers and then moves to the center as a solo piece, it needs to sound the same.

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

Hreat job kspace

[@dadgotable]

The only thing that does not match in my system are the subs. One Polk 10 inch & infinity wireless sub 10 inch. Everything else is DEF tech satellites.

[@michaelcharles5273]

Kpaceguy I have a Question. I have a 5.2 speaker system with a pair of Klipsch RP 280s L&R, RP 504 center channel, but I would like to know if I should use another pair of RP 280s as my surround rear speakers? Thank you in advance for your response .

[@Kpaceguy]

If you have the space for it sure. It's not necessary though

[@michaelcharles8903]

Thank you. My surround speakers are Polk Audio Rti 6. Should I ever worry about changing them to maybe the Klipsch RP 600?

[@BrendanEvansX]

I use Klipsch RP Speakers for my LCR and Side Surrounds whilst my Rear Surrounds are Dali Oberon On-Wall speakers due to space constraints. I have an AV friend that keeps insisting that my setup is fucked and is wrong because of the decision made for my rears. Is this even worth arguing on with him?

[@Kpaceguy]

No. It's always great if you can buy the same series of speakers but it's not all that important at all. My video coming out in about an hr or so actually talks about this directly. Your setup is fine.

[@BrendanEvansX]

@@Kpaceguy thank you for the kind reply man, looking forward to that video. To my ears, I hear no discernible difference in how audio is reproduced as everything sounds as it should and is cohesive.

[@Kpaceguy]

@@BrendanEvansX it's up now

[@BrendanEvansX]

@@Kpaceguy currently watching!

[@jamescampbell3110]

have you done any video's about picture hz?

[@Kpaceguy]

Refresh rate?

[@jamescampbell3110]

@@Kpaceguy yes, trying to better understand 60hz and 120 hz etc

[@Kpaceguy]

@@jamescampbell3110 refresh rate is how quickly the screen can draw a new image. The higher the number the faster and smoother the transition is from one image to another. In TVs 120hz is a the golden child. On gaming monitors 240hz is the ideal number

[@jamescampbell3110]

@@Kpaceguy Thanks this is what I was looking for. Have a good weekend. `

[@pastaman6099]

Center channels suck, phantom all the way if u want true timbre match for the front stage. Just my take. I had Sony tweeters as surrounds for months. They did pretty well but then Klipsch R-41Ms came in a week ago and for surrounds, they finally blend with my Klipsch towers so well! I can't even tell that the sound is coming from a different speaker anymore for movies.

[@Kpaceguy]

Nah can't vibe with that. If you're not dead center your image is gone

[@pastaman6099]

@@Kpaceguy tis but a small yet necessary sacrifice when the only space under my TV is just 2"

[@pastaman6099]

@@Kpaceguy plus hard toe-in helps. Basically, left front faces rightmost seat and vice versa for right.

[@americanidle1277]

I have identical tower speakers for all 9 channels. Seamless!

[@kira5348]

👏👏👏👍👍👍

[@victorjohnson8374]

Only thing that are not timbre matched. Are my surrounds and Atmos speakers. At some point. I’ll be timbre matched. All the way around.

[@Zoranurai13]

I’d be so bothered by just the look of a different brand center

[@Echo-jg8is]

I think to really understand what effect a Frankenstein speaker system does to a Home Cinema system is to simply run your pink noise generator and listen as it pans around ... It sounds all over the place right, just like many other systems out there...Now go visit a AV linear system ( if you can find one) and run the pink noise again , perfection, every speakers tone is identical because every speaker is identical and every speaker is fed by their own identical monoblock amplifier with all speakers equal distance to one Hot Spot...if you use different speakers, even if it has the same drivers then you will automatically get different tone, balance, impedance, resistance, sensitivity, power handling and cosmetics which now requires DSP and amplifier gain / level adjustments just to correct this problem alone ... On a last note its the only system that can play movies, 2 channel and multi channel music properly... Imagine playing stereo music through different speakers like a bipole for the left and centre for the right, really bad idea right , who would then listen to Atmos music or surround sound music through a tower, bipole, inwall and a centre speaker speaker ? ...

[@doc666ify]

Yes it sounds stupid to mismatch your speakers .You might get away surround speakers but the front stage speakers should all match or you might as well be listening to the shitty tv speakers

[@andysummersthxcinemaandmyc7748]

Are you been watching my videos and copying my videos. Its okay to copy cos you get the word around which is what this, is about. You need to use mic close to speaker and run REW and see if each speaker is the same, which it won't be. This is where manual EQ. I said Manual EQ is used to adjust correct the odd frequency differences to tonally match can take hours to do it Manual EQ don't use autoEQ waste of time cos you'd end up doing it again and then sigh, may as well do it Manual EQ. using PEQ parametric EQ and using the Q bandwidth narrow or widening the Q to adjust the problematic speaker to getting it sound same as the rest. You can move the speakers into same position for Manual EQ , PEQ cos they be in same space. When finished and LR placed back where they are use the mic close to the speakers again and recheck using the RTA do they show the same? Remember there are walls behind to the side and above ceiling will change the frequency wavelengths. Homes are not easy. Cinemas are easier as the rooms are larger and can fit many home cinemas inside the auditorium. I have done cinema projection for UCI and Warner Bros 1989 98. Which speakers do I use , number of them. x110 JBL professional cinema (used) with some JBL control series. Why JBL cos they are used for mixing on large dubbing stages to cinemas and JBL was at start of "the talkie" 1927. JBL are used in 85% of world cinemas. I use a five screen which is way better soundly exciting than than the common LCR where I can use L Lc C Rc R which is, wow on Gravity, I do feel at preset ashamed mentioning about that cos all you, lot seem care about is a movie? I lost my cat last year, my dad my uncle all in a single 2020 year, and people only care about atmos movies, wow that is rather shallow. JBL 4673A (rare yet I see many few on ebay usa) I got mine at 🐟fish and chips 🍟price in uk. all in working order. Have also heard them at small local single screen starting around 1989 -1992 with The Bear, Batman, Back to future 2, and T2. Thou I prefer the JBL 4675A thou too large horn size 3 feet square for my room to fit five across behind the AT screen so I had to settle for x5 JBL 4673A that sound wow even with the HF horn tuned crossover L-R -24dB down to THX experimental 254Hz they can manage 200Hz thou some recommendations commonly at 500Hz so I am THX-experimenting. JBL 8330 mkII surrounds and surrounds as in surround arrays x3 each sidewall so they diffused and localizable with split-surrounds or diffused with mono discrete surround same with Dolby Stereo MP 4.2.4 matrix with actual proper pro-logic as Dolby DSU is rather flawed, I'm surprised many have not even noticed this. Back wall x5 JBL 8330 mkII with centre middle back surround. Overhead surround I use matrix decoder to remove centre-phantom because the overhead are basic stereo pairs for height 1 2 and 3, I use Dolby SA10 x3 in the amp rack in the kitchen to isolate cooling fans even some replaced better fans so run quieter. x9 JBL 8330A on the ceiling with middle sort of "vog" cos everyone has been brainwashed on avs forums and vog is the only word they understand? I call mine DOG dolby overhead god, cos what is DOG reversed and I am agnostic. So I have x3 DOG channels, DOG 1 height middle front 1, - DOG 2 height middle - DOG 3 height middle back, all attached to the ceiling with LR heights placed few feet apart and sounds cohesively smooth with panning sound/fx or music pans depending on the overhead surround mix. Inside trivia. 70mm cinerama used overhead surround at the local (closed down cinema odeon Bournemouth) 70mm removed early around 1970 replaced with 35mm and few years later used for an immersive storytelling about a "star destroyer" overhead in Dolby Stereo A-type MP 4.2.4 matrix via Dolby Stereo CP50 with x6 overheads flush in the ceiling while screen 2 downstairs used side/back wall and x6 flush overhead all playing same matrix mono surround and screen 2 was decent at the time. Worked at UCI '89 and that was 10 plex that used experimental overhead surround all speakers was EV THX approved, and sounded rather decent cos they are so high up the sound spreads out wider and the diffusion was rather decent sounding with many movies I can still, easily recall how they sounded, as with the other local cinema. Yeah, I bet avs forum, youtube didn't know that then huh? I also use matrix below surround channel that is placed underneath my x6 Irwin rocker seats, there isn't a single dub stage, cinema or other home cinema that uses that, I am the first? Or maybe not? Plus many more JBL professional in my room smaller than yours. So this BS about smaller rooms work better with 5.1 and 7.1 won't work is totally and utterly misleading. So long as you know I still feel bitter and retired projectionist and listener. yeah peace.

[@Kpaceguy]

I don't know who you are at all. Lol but I appreciate you watching

[@MichaelLHill-fd3kw]

You must have a huge amount of space to incorporate all of this into your HT with a few bucks to spend on having what you want, also I think that the vog or dog is not anything that I would ever say because it is not now or ever will it be the vog or dog it's just a sound overhead.

[@b1ackhatter453]

@@Kpaceguy LMAOOO phew that was alot of words for dude to say i’m a bitter random guy on the net😂

[@jasonsoto8260]

How do you get the subwoofer in phase?

[@Kpaceguy]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqeQo5dnasd9gbc

[@BornIn82]

Good insights.

[@batuegesoy3067]

What .. white looks nice?..

[@victorpulos823]

Good video