The Truth About PhD Unemployment Data

Watch this video to learn the how PhD unemployment data is skewed by not including postdoc positions (i.e. postdoc training positions) and underemployed PhDs who are getting paid half of what they're worth.
You'll also see how few PhDs are actually in high-paying industry positions versus the exponential number of those currently pursuing postdocs.
The good news is that your PhD IS valuable. But not in academia. You can leverage your PhD in industry and be paid what your worth and do meaningful work. Here, we will tell you what the average STEM PhD salary is in industry and how you can be one of these top earners.
Click here to learn more about the PhD-specific job search blueprint & referral network that can help you get hired in industry: cheekyscientist.com/associati...

[@Pfsif]

Higher Education: Keeping the scam going.

[@rina_fuks]

That's all depressingly correct, and I would add - many PhD holders are quite sick of their research field after the years spent digging into it so the prospect of a postdoc is not attractive.

[@CheekyScientist]

Completely agree, Rina. And this makes sense. You invest so much time into something and eventually want to do something else. In the "real" world, this is typical.

[@kevinfogarty5081]

A doctorate in psychology is almost guaranteed employment.

[@univuniveral9713]

I feel sorry for people who pay fees to get a PhD. You should only do a PhD if you are fully sponsored to do the PhD.

[@daemon1143]

Good advice, however, the multinational I work for, and many other companies, have policies of not employing STEM PhDs that have no substantial post grad industry experience. Industry would prefer to take honours bachelorettes for the same money, over an inexperienced PhD in most cases. If you want a job in industry, look for it when you've done your honours and if you still want a PhD, do it later, when you have solid industry experience.

[@DebuSuper]

Can you make a video on Engineering PhD stats it would be give good insight since not all phd fields are similar. Thank you!

[@DrRashadVance]

Many students do not understand that it is very import to leverage their education. Great video.

[@CheekyScientist]

Agreed! Glad you liked it. Thanks for commenting.

[@CareerConversations]

Yes, also many students don't realise that they should start to think about where they want to go in their career. Only this way will they be able to overcome all the pitfalls of an academic career

[@Lovelifeplease]

Very important information. Thank you.

[@epixdevo3180]

Why spend that much time learning your academics for a career when they dont care about how much your worth or what you know

[@CheekyScientist]

The good news is that your PhD IS valuable. But not in academia. You can leverage your PhD in industry and be paid what your worth and do meaningful work.

[@A8.Z]

Thank you for this is very helpful video. Showing us the details on this statistics are very eye opening for us who are PhD students. 🙂

[@CheekyScientist]

Glad you liked it!

[@glorfindel2012]

Superb presentation!

[@kushsakhu]

Really well presented.

[@CheekyScientist]

Thank you Kush I. How's your job search going?

[@christhescienceguy6285]

The System is so broken it’s not even funny. Poor Life Science PhDs. So many people were told to become a scientist, there’s jobs in science ... only to end up unemployed. How is this even legal to keep selling people degrees that have no prospects? I don’t know whether to blame universities, industry, Big Tech, Capitalism, or all of the above for lying to people about jobs. I feel like someone needs to be held accountable and some kind of class action lawsuit filed.

[@youngevil353]

where are we getting these numbers?

[@mumtahinabithe2601]

Hi, I saw all the video you uploaded. really supportive. My question is, are all of those advice relates to all doctorial degrees like DBA ( doctorial of business administration)? Could you recommend mostly important thing for doing DBA progrm. Please, that would be greatful.

[@CheekyScientist]

Thanks for reaching out! Yes, the same principles generally apply. As a DBA, your industry prospects should be quite good. Do you know what kind of industry you want to work in?

[@liberalstudiesmaterials899]

What should an long time unemployed phd or master degree work and retrain please?

[@BangMaster96]

The only reason people pursue Ph.D is that they are so passionate about what they are learning, however, our education systems is a complete business and they take advantage of the Ph.D students by charging high tuition fees and then having them work on one problem for 3 years, instead of multiple research problems.

[@cascade7777]

Can you do more whiteboard trainings on different positions available in the life science industry ? I remember one where you split positions into R&D, marketing, sales and applications. It was excellent and gave me a much better understanding. Please do more of those.

[@user-gaszpla]

Seems to have less opportunities for social scientists :(

[@paulines581]

Why would they train you NOT to get a job or relevant job afterwards, very generous? Is the problem only money or also massive unregulated mental blocks?

[@marcogenualdo7061]

It's an interesting interpretation of the data, though the same survey you're citing shows a mean salary of 70k per year for science Phds who completed their studies less than five years prior to the study. How is it possible then that the low paying post doc positions constitute the majority of the employment for the population examined?

[@kevinmiller8111]

This is why I'm done with school after I get my masters (mech. eng.) next month, despite being pushed to apply for a Ph.D program. Going stick with my plan of getting my professional license and go into consulting, too many PhDs not enough positions. Yeah I might be able to make a bit more money with a PhD in my field, but I'd have to sacrifice location and be open to relocating, not happening.

[@CheekyScientist]

There are plenty of roles in industry for PhDs. Not only would you earn more money, but it would open the door to quicker access to management level positions

[@minanihad9872]

@@CheekyScientist do we need to prepare for pmp certification to get these kind of management positions?

[@thaysapc3058]

Is there any data on unemployment on research areas? Like which areas are more prospective and which dont add much. I know that prestigious programs have it value, but im asking in general terms. I have a Msc in environmental planning and im afraid on going for a phd yet. Thanks you sir! :)

[@CheekyScientist]

Hi Thaysa - there's data out there that disaggregates by department/field, but the trends are generally negative for all fields. That is, more PhDs are being granted as fewer academic appointments are available every year. What's your motivation for the PhD? Are you looking for industry or academic jobs?

[@thaysapc3058]

Cheeky Scientist thank you for the attention. To be honest, I would be interested in a PhD if it is a sort of job contract (for at least 3 years). I have seen some positions like that in my field and they sound better since it is a partnership between a company/university. Anyhow, at the moment I don't really have preferences on job types... I see myself working in anything (academia, non-profit, industry). I am now working in academia (research assistant in Finland) and before i worked for government (in Brazil). When I was a fellow in the faculty of Oceanography, PhD was always on my career plans, but after seeing so many friends/colleagues without much hopes after their PhDs, I keep wondering about it.

[@epiphanyy146]

@@thaysapc3058 hey! It's been a while and I don't even know if you're gonna see this lol, but, how's the PhD thing going? I'm still a high schooler and considering a PhD in research, it's just something I really love, and It would be awesome to know how it is for you!

[@M3ta1]

Preach!

[@younisibrahim4562]

I see there's a kind of extending the childhood by institutions. Unfortunately, this is true at all levels of the education track.

[@thefront5871]

Well, maybe not medical doctors! From my understanding, it's still a very lucrative career to be a medical doctor! Especially, an in-demand specialist!

[@daemon1143]

@@thefront5871 very few medical doctors do a PhD. Most stop at a masters. They're not called doctors because they have a doctorate.

[@univuniveral9713]

Bro, can I politely plead that you do a live chat on these issues?

[@cliffharrington6500]

Basically, if you do a PhD, finding a job is easy if you get the experience you need while doing your studies. I am doing a PhD in Engineering, but I worked as an electrician, a refrigeration engineer in New Zealand, and worked on many projects as my qualifications progressed from trades person to engineer and so on. Distance learning made this possible. You can earn good money as you study and add value to your career every time you attain a new academic milestone. The other thing is value yourself high if you have the skills needed, modern top tier companies will pay as much as it takes to retain your services if you fit the mold.

[@davidmarjason4222]

Man good work. I'm thinking of going into an apprenticeship as an electrician myself, I have recently applied to some places already and hoping to get a foot in a door as well in the uk. :)

[@tgood4839]

What about STEM PhDs vs. Humanities PhDs? Isn’t there a better market for Engineering PhDs?

[@tgood4839]

Never mind you answered it at the end of the video.

[@CheekyScientist]

Glad it helped!

[@mrc3544]

(if something in the following logic is wrong, i am sorry and i am happy for the upcoming discussions) I really dont get that... phd is basically for research and not for business, or did i get something wrong? so this is not designed for being in an academic course to find success in business. So why do most of the phds find a post doc-job? because they are seeking for that, they love their research and a position in an "industry job". when you attend a phd in literature/arts, or what ever you may are looking for a research position, and these positions are mostly postdoc positions. Thus there are so many of them. the other thing is that when you finished a phd in business administration, economics or in most of the science or engineering fields you have great job opportunities in the private sector. so the truth about phd, in my opinion, is that you try to discover something new and to get a scientist, rather than obtaining a ticket to a high paid job. when you do such videos you may consider to separate the phd fields and that may tell us something about the phd unemployment rate of every field on its own.

[@dkouzou]

Something else to consider. For science PhDs in USA (official numbers), there is 2.1% unemployment (vs. 4.1% unemployment of the general population). Compare this rate to 0.8% unemployment for physicians! So, having a PhD will halve the chance of unemployment whereas a MD will reduce it by 5 times.

[@keshawnbrown4378]

John Goss J R Oklahoma State university

[@peternguyen5097]

PhD in Forensic Psychology or Clinical Psychology can earn about the same as the Primary Care Physician.

[@univuniveral9713]

"Can" is the catch in what you are saying.

[@johnbatchler8551]

Is it worth getting a college degree if u just learn it the other method as home schooling mega trends show this for white sometimes now people should follow mega trends technically degree is worthless but knowledge isn't but I perfered home schooling over degree

[@rmenchoachupicachu]

Most large companies (pay very well), use the college degree (with specific keywords) as a checkbox for HR to get an interview. The degree is also a plus when the company goes through restructuring and the need to let people go comes down to their educational achievements or experience. You cannot be a licensed engineer without an engineering degree. I agree, most of what I do at my job was not necessarily taught in school. A lot of research and independent learning is what gets me through the work.

[@llbrunollllbll9347]

I am digging into some other people experiences, trying to get a clear view and decide what is the best to do now. I think that as Ph.Ds we have a great basis to move forward. We are problem solvers, and we know how to communicate ideas (that is what writing papers have teach us I guess) So, I would like to recommend some videos from this guy here: TurningScience. Check his channel. Check the videos: 5 Habits Successful PhDs in Industry Learn Quickly; Why won't industry managers hire PhDs? ; Should I do a Postdoc (if I want an industry career)? . We need to make up a plan. Talk to people about it, and talk to people who actually did the move we are trying to do now. Academia --> Industry

[@minanihad9872]

How was your transition to industry?

[@NB-qq8wo]

This video makes me question the intelligence of people who do PhDs.

[@nicholasrowe288]

Could you give links to all of the figures you use? I do not doubt them at all, but if the data stands up, then put this into monetary terms - how much private and public funding is spent on hyper training individuals for non-existent or foreseeably hard to come-by jobs that is not disclosed from the outset? Put it into humanitarian terms - given the documented high levels of diagnosable stress and mental harm people experience in a PhD (10 times the population norm), the low completion rate (@46-50% conservative), the high levels of purposefully generated student debt, etc. Put it into economic terms - the return on funding and individual ROI. Put it into societal terms - a closed and manipulative 'ponzi' that is not fulfilling its broad remit in a justifiable or sustainable way ..... why is someone (if not all of us) getting all 'Greta' about this? Is it enough to post videos on YT or the odd opinion article in magazines? Why is there no direct action by the swathes of unemployed PhDs, the 'army' of under-paid post-docs that keep the system going, and the HE students who are being sucked in? It is not just one or two universities, it is a global system. We should be outside the gates, writing to government, getting campaign support instead of doing shot-in-the-dark funding bids for a post-doc project. What can we do to make people sit up and listen, and to expose those responsible?

[@yixuz42]

That number: 0.45% of PhD becomes tenured professors can’t be true. The number of professors are quite stable, and if on average ,one professor admits a student per year, and he/she works 40 years before retirement, then on average 1 of the 40 students will replace his/her position.

[@oualidyahia2387]

I learned that a month before PhD examination, it took way any type of motivation to prepare for it, it feels pointless, to add insult to injury, I am an immigrant, so I am likely to be deported after I finish my degree.

[@CheekyScientist]

Don't lose hope! There are so many opportunities out there for you, and so many ways that you can overcome the challenges you are facing. Here's an article outlining key information you need to know as an international PhD: cheekyscientist.com/visa-options-international-phd-students-work-in-usa/ For additional support, International PhD Community is a networking and training platform specifically for onternational PhDs looking for work and sponsorship: cheekyscientist.com/international-learn-more/ Let me know how else I can help!

[@univuniveral9713]

@@CheekyScientist That transition is too slow if you do not immediately get a graduate position in the industry, after your PhD. To transition after one year without a job, it is very difficult and they ask you for experience. Therefore, either the PhD graduate is single and hence can live cheap, or is housed by some patient spouse or relative. Only then would the PhD have the time to explore and learn necessary skills.

[@Carvin0]

I keep hearing you say "paid what they're worth". I see quite a few PhDs who are really not worth much. That includes STEM PhDs. The deal is often to be be a gopher for a tenured professor in any specialty, no matter how obscure, and get a PhD as a reward. That can be extended to postdoc time. That, by itself, isn't a formula to ensure that a prospective hire can rise to what I as a hiring manager would like to see. To sort through the glut of mediocre PhDs it's necessary to look for other evidence of accomplishment to select individuals who'll be worth the money you assume they're entitled to. I speak as a hiring manager of PhDs (now retired) for a major high tech manufacturer. I have a PhD in Physics 40-odd years ago.

[@Harshil2456]

I think people who do PhD.s are motivated by their love of their field rather than money. They don't mind doing research for their own satisfaction as long as they are paid just enough to survive.

[@CheekyScientist]

PhDs need to love what they are doing in order to overlook the poor job security, low pay, and limited room for career growth in academia. But still that isn't sustainable. PhDs can love what they are doing and do it in a different setting (ex. in industry) where they are paid more and where there are opportunities for advancement.

[@rupayandey1514]

Dont mislead student

[@lewisg06]

Don't know where your data comes from. The PhD's in my class in Scotland all found work shortly after graduation. Don't confine your yourself to the USA, look overseas. If US universities don't value you find others offshore who will.

[@CheekyScientist]

Couldn't agree more, Ged! We always encourage PhDs to look beyond the U.S.

[@rina_fuks]

It's not that practical to move countries at an older age: people start having families and the partner is having their career too. Besides, many have moved country for the PhD and another immigration is just too much.

[@lewisg06]

A PhD is ways valued. Be positive and imagine the opportunities which awaits those who do things.

[@CheekyScientist]

Absolutely, Rina. There are many factors to consider. But we encourage PhDs to reflect and take the risk if it is something they want to consider.

[@mattball7074]

@@rina_fuks Yes Rina, I imagine having young kids, dept, splitting a mortgage, living costs, sickly family nearby, partner's employment is hard to just 'up and go' to a brand new country

[@JamesJoyce12]

not all PhD's are equal - there are some schools with very high placement rates - they are just super tough to get into - if you're attending a school where they simply checked if you had a pulse before admitting you then you get what you deserve - and if you are actually paying for your PhD then you have failed life

[@Marcus1Arelius3]

You don’t go into a PhD program for wealth or respect. You go through the program because it is what you love.

[@CheekyScientist]

True enough. But why not have both? :)

[@oocarpa]

Agree but it wouldn't be discouraging loving to do something but find out that this "don't pay the bills"?

[@Anonymous__-uo6zq]

you aren't doing what you love if you are unemployed.

[@eben3357]

If you aren't inheriting wealth, or, gifted enough to get into medical or law school (and even then its competitive) then you would be better off working in a low skilled, high demand job from 17-30, even if you have to travel or move far away, and, then investing the spare change in EFTs and property (provided it is in Britain, Australia, Sweden or the high demand cities in Canada or the USA) and then doing what you love. As a self-made person, doing science is much more enjoyable and rewarding without having to worry about taking part-time teaching work to pay the bills. I know a few people who have done things differently and you can tell which people are happier than the standard finish school then do university then do a PhD and then a Post-Doc. There are also professors out there who chose a profession and then did their PhDs much later in life. It is not a fair game but one of economics. Unfortunately, you have to be able to eat and have a roof over your head before you can undertake something self-actualising, like science, in life.

[@Baconlessness]

This is a facile argument at its best. A PhD is the highest level of education attainable and takes great work to get there, which in and of itself does not go against your point, but do remember... The University and the publishers are the ones who benefit from the research you do. The university gets to brag about how many people it's granted PhDs, raising its status among other uni's, potentially leading to more commercial partnerships, and the publishers get dozens of articles to sell for profit (pretty much none of which goes back to the hard working postdocs). So in essence, these people are being worked to the bone for a fraction of what their level of expertise is worth, while their "employers" reap the benefits. To top it all off, you've made the VERY weird implication that enjoying a line of work somehow means that you should expect to receive less pay. Your level of job satisfaction has no connection to how much you deserve to get paid, especially if you're at the absolute pinnacle of expertise. Don't be so blasé when talking about the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people you've never met and know nothing about.

[@ginebro1930]

Don't watch this, save your time, if he looks like a salesman, promotes his buisness web like a salesman and all his videos are basically around this topic over and over, then hes a salesman. Edit: if you are a researcher do your job and search this guy first

[@amberjolly2551]

What’s wrong with selling?

[@ginebro1930]

@@amberjolly2551 If you ask a tesla salesman why to buy a car he will tell you all the benefits of a electric car and all the problems of a combustion one, and that's only PART of the truth, so they manipulate the amount of info to maximize their profit, not your wallet or quality of life. The same happens here.

[@amberjolly2551]

Cristian Aguirre while I do agree with you 100%, it is also equally true that academia sells an unrealistic dream. I am not personally invested in the success of cheeky scientist as a business but I do recognize that there is a valid reason for it to exist. Similarly, a Tesla salesman may be viewed as a biased person who will not market in an objective way, or alternatively it may be viewed as a person who is passionate about an important and under appreciated social need. Academics have a tendency to believe that marketing is unethical and this is ironically one of the main reasons why academics are biased against industry as I was. The truth is that everything and everyone markets themselves and their passions and that is natural and good. We are all smart people who are good with numbers and we should all see the important role of each diverse group within our broader community. The PhD is a way to increase your value as a human. Navigating society after the training is complete is a wholly different prospect that needs to be carefully considered and cheeky scientist does provide a valuable resource and perspective. Same way that Tesla is not just for people to feel rich while washing their hands of environmental protection obligations; it will also guide technology and societal change.

[@chang912]

It's very obvious that this guy gives "bad" stats to make people think PhD is worthless lol and the true intention is to sell you his service on his website.

[@BoilsonA]

Phd unemployed no money to retain , my like is ruined.

[@Newtube_Channel]

This is all well and good. But how about thinking about it in terms of getting a job done if indeed there is a job to be done? Your video is promoting an entitlement culture. You're not learning much more in a PhD than the time spent developing yourself which you could well do on your own outside of the academic system. The most important aspect is developing transferable skills. I see universities holding people back with their laid back holiday culture or pie-in-the-sky attitudes. There are some bad departments out there, together with weak qualifications being awarded no less. Even if you genuinely take the content of your PhD to heart (say in purely blue-sky research), the pace of industry doesn't and can't match that level of training. The training turns out to be no more than simply an academic exercise.

[@CheekyScientist]

We agree with much of what you mention here, Skylark. However, PhDs gain many transferable skills during their years in academia that can be transferred into industry. The problem we try to highlight here is that PhDs are highly-trained, yet oftentimes end up unemployed post-PhD. You're right to indicate this is a problem of the academic system - the larger issue is that academia is not adequately addressing this concern (with a few exceptions). In fact, they are producing more and more PhDs.

[@ab1234465]

The simple question is WHY finding a job for highly educated has been a nightmare since 1980? The simple answer is : Because the industrialized countries moved their MANUFACTURING to China and became Importers instead of being exporters. If we have manufacturing in our countries, we wouldn't be carrying PhDs the highest academic degrees and sitting idle at home. Why wee need all these strategies and planning like we have a battle just to get a living job while we are DOCTORS.? BRING THE MANUFACTURING BACK FROM CHINA AND OUR LIFE WILL BE MUCH EASY .

[@DejaVoo1250]

He acts like 91k is not enough

[@DejaVoo1250]

It's true that people who earn Phd's don't earn what they are worth. A solution to this is to redefine ones definition of wealth.

[@Ayplus]

Are Universities gonna redefine how we pay for education?. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis

[@sosexymommy]

Bret Bishop but if you listen to it again he says that you have to do 5yrs or more of post doc to get to the 91k during that time of the post doc you are only making only 46k/yr

[@patrickm7727]

"redefine ones definition of wealth" is a nonsense solution in this context.