The Truth about Politics and Deer Management in Ohio w/ Mike Tonkovich | HUNTR Podcast

In this episode of HUNTR Podcast, we're joined by a pretty special guest. We invite Mike Tonkovich (Deer Program Administrator) of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources to talk with us about what goes on behind the scenes of deer management decisions. We often talk about the issues we feel need addressed in the state of Ohio when it comes to wildlife management and a healthy deer population, so to have someone like Mike on has helped us better understand why things are the way they are. With that being said, we are very passionate about what we believe should be addressed and how we can contribute as a hunting public to create a better hunting experience for everyone involved. Please enjoy this episode as we get to know Mike and talk politics and deer in the state of Ohio. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show!
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[@nolanager9448]

Boys, I'm ready for the next Cj Alexander episode.

[@tylertrosclair6246]

Prob another trump trial

[@lukepatrino8668]

Wish non residents would be more like Iowa and keep the non Ohio residents have to draw a tag because all these guys are coming here from everywhere

[@lukepatrino8668]

We don’t need to hear from non resident Residents of Ohio they don’t live here

[@chuck8586]

I feel the same way in PA, if youre non resident your opinion doesnt matter.

[@still1.]

Lol, the hunters dollars seem to matter from non residents though.

[@garystephenson2108]

Good god Jared with the listen to me talk. What I have to say is more important than the guest. Uhg.

[@toddstewart9437]

Because here in Ohio, crossbows have always been allowed in the archery season. And according to Mr Tonkovich, crossbows accounted for 55% of the archery harvest 30 years ago and has now grown to 70%. All the while the age structure of bucks in Ohio has continued to get older. All that to say, the stats out of Ohio don't support the theory that crossbows are ruining "traditional" archery and the deer herd. So to paint crossbows as cheating, crossbows have to be paired with corn piles, which according to some, is another form of "cheating ". Ohio has close to 12 million people, over 280 people per square mile, Iowa has 3 million people, less than 60 people per square mile, but according to some the problem with Ohio's shortage of Booners is corn piles. The reality is, Ohio may be as good as it ever might get. And to me, that's good enough.

[@justinminges5820]

All I keep hearing is how many more deer need to be killed in Ohio. If you talk to anyone who hunts here in southwest Ohio, you will rarely find a hunter that will say there is too many deer. The population is a shell of what it once was. And not in a healthy way. I am a landowner, a farmer, and a hunter. I can hunt over 500 acres of private land. I used to see at least 10 to 15 deer per sit , and now it is maybe 2 or 3 deer. I have done everything that all the “deer biologists “ would say is needed for a healthy population, from hinge cutting to food plots to bedding to natural browse. The population has still hugely declined. We have had an explosion of coyotes, the DNR releasing bobcats, loss of habitat, and over killing of deer in southwest Ohio. I contacted ohio DNR and they gave me a bunch of stats from 2010 to 2019 that are irrelevant to current day. I do not have a great feeling about the future of hunting in Ohio with all of the special interests starting to control the decision making of the DNR. As a farmer, I can truly say that deer have a minimal affect on crops. The explosion of raccoons have had a much bigger impact than deer, especially since there are not many deer here anymore. I really think the Ohio DNR needs to make a much bigger effort in getting real info from real people, not just an email survey. Well that is my rant coming from a southwest Ohio hunter/farmer/landowner

[@devingomez3312]

Exactly. ALL HUNTERS HAVE THE HUNT FISH APP 😂 Why are we not receiving this survey! Why is the ODNR subcontracting 140k dollars to a third party company to send out 15k surveys! Why are they contacting only private farms and private land hunters. I’m also a SW resident. Hunt butler and Clermont. In the last 4 years i’ve gone from seeing 5-10 deer a sit on public to seeing 1-3. This idea that hunters have reported seeing more deer is nonsense! 😂 Yhen on top of that these dudes talk so selfishly from an outside standpoint not having a clue about ohio hunting other than the farm they own. They don’t want to kill does they simply want to hunt over there food plot (bait site) for the more challenge NOT FOR THE ANTLERS 😂😂😂 give me a break.

[@scottminter4735]

The number of 90 year old land owners that check in deer in illinois is crazy.

[@dylanwertz9465]

I’m an Ohio landowner, we can also hunt my direct parents property without tag or license. Once I hunt any other permission or public I’m required to have a license and tag. Anyone who processes their own deer in Ohio could tell you how easy it would be to not register a harvest. Multiple counties around me don’t even have a game warden. Multiple times I’ve helped process a deer and it’s been registered hours later and meat in the freezer.

[@ryanfarmer5155]

Wish Missouri would follow suit and get some new NR regs in place

[@thetrooper1061]

You already have a solution. Ohio landowners have to report kills to get confirmation # for processor or taxidermist. You have them on the phone or online at that time... do a mandatory survery before they get confirmation #. Many landowners also hunt other places or species off the property as well so im sure how you wouldnt already yave access to them.

[@jeremycavaretta1035]

Another good one. If you guys would like to know how we do our “Venison for Veterans and Seniors” where we have over 4000lbs of venison donated to feed our starving veterans and seniors. Right now we are in just 2 counties for the past 10 years and this year we are expanding out to more counties to take advantage of this amazing cause.

[@RichBrant-mb5es]

Why does Jared continue to paint all crossbow hunters with a broad brush and say they hunt over bait piles ! I hunt with a crossbow and never hunt over a bait pile or a feeder, hell I never killed a deer past 25 yards with my crossbow!

[@buckydoedowner9040]

Thats their claim to fame.. Cross bow crybabies.

[@Leatherwoodoutdoors]

Tons of info in this one! Really thought provoking. There's either people who think there's not enough deer and won't shoot doe or there's those like me where I can't kill them off because there's too many. In my case, the people who won't shoot them are trying to kill a buck until the last minute possible. Most never fill thier tag because of it. I think in high concentrations you make it so you shoot doe first to get your buck tag upon visual inspection only. Make an October rifle doe hunt. I'm about to cut timber and I'm gonna have no choice but to fence large portions so I get good regeneration.

[@HUNTRPOD]

The timber cut is intriguing, I know there are a done of deer up there wild to think the numbers are lie than regeneration can handle

[@colbykinney5633]

The only people in ohio that think that there is too many deer are private land owners who don't allow hunting. The public land is a ghost town in eastern Ohio.

[@Mossy-back-blacktail]

I got to say you guys are the ones that turned me on to the plot start about 2 or 3 years ago and it has made a world of difference in sw Washington for my blacktail deer food plots. And I ended up spraying an entire hay field this year we usually hay we ended up pulling an extra 30 bales and each is about 10 to 15 heavier than it has been in the past

[@HUNTRPOD]

Damn man that’s awesome!

[@Mossy-back-blacktail]

@@HUNTRPOD that's a whole market they need to start advertising to. Everybody thinks we put some blessing or whatever on the field because it's incredible for hay growth. The neighbors growth was at 5in when we were at 10 to 12in

[@trevorphlipot1894]

Back when they had early muzzleloader season in 2013 and 2014 we had some of the best memories at deer camp. And we went back a couple weeks later and still seen a ton of bucks in some of the same areas we filled our freezers weeks before. And the hunt was still amazing. Would love if they bring it back because all the mentors are even struggling to hunt the second gun season!

[@trevorphlipot1894]

Don’t they do a survey for migratory birds? Why not do a quick survey for deer when purchasing a tag and or license and it’ll give you a better understanding of the previous years hunt. Yea it may be later but it will give you data that you can trend.

[@justinonken3248]

I would guess the CWD prevalence rates are increasing because CWD doesn’t kill deer (at least not in the lifespan of the average deer). Waste of resources largely at this point.

[@jimmysingleton9417]

We used to have an early two day muzzle loader season that was antletless only. I think it was mid October in Ohio

[@jimmysingleton9417]

I guess I should've finished the podcast before I commented🤷‍♂️😂

[@toddstewart9437]

Im curious as to where the 70% non resident revenue figure comes from. Checking the transcript of Mike Rex's interview he stated the figure from a few years ago was 57%. According to the latest deer summary released by the state that revenue figure looks more likely to be 45% at best.

[@Outdoors_with_Isaiah]

Loved growing up bow hunting Northeast Ohio

[@joelkeever1506]

Don’t land owners get land owner tags? Can they be survey through that avenue? Or at least the ones that qualify for landowner tags? Or does Ohio not work that way?

[@curtyoder2210]

A landowner and their children in Ohio, just have to make their own tags when they shoot a deer. So the DOW could survey any of the honest ones that checked their deer in. But they dont because that would be a skewed survey.

[@jessebutler841]

Nice podcast as always. Very interesting, and I agree just scratching the surface. I live in one of Ohio's DSA counties. I'm a land owner that buys a tag and license because i hunt on leased property and public land. I've been sent a survey on deer management from the state DNR. It was multiple choice. I didn't bother to fill it out, because I thought it was BS. If you want my opinion, let me answer the questions.

[@Leatherwoodoutdoors]

Oh and one more thing....now do Pennsylvania!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Working on it!

[@sheashaw1091]

The county I live in in Texas has doe season up until Thanksgiving. Usually the week of Thanksgiving people start freaking out about the season and running out and harvest a doe.

[@SEPA.1973]

You need an acronym (The triple C's) with the frequency of them in your conversations.

[@mikepoulson384]

I turn my garage into a processing room for myself and friends because a few locals closed and the others did supply and demand prices

[@daveyboy8907]

We need season specific permits per weapon with crossbow only being in during firearm season or maybe a 3 day or 4 day crossbow specific permit..

[@buckydoedowner9040]

whatever commie

[@rickzwayer2347]

Although resident landowners are not required to purchase a hunting license and deer tag on property they own, they often purchase licenses & tags to hunt other property they don’t own. Additionally, they are often surveyed as the landowner due the the fact that they are in the business of farm production. And lastly, deer bag limits exist for both landowners and others required to purchase tags alike. Ohio has perhaps a simplistic system, but the deer herd itself is the best proof of its success. Anyone (exemp landowner or required licensee), if they choose to break the law, can and unfortunately do take deer beyond their bag limits. To suggest that this is only a landowner issue is irresponsible.

[@chuck8586]

2:02:27 crossbows 10 years ago were very good! Tenpoints have been great to have for going on 20years

[@sheashaw1091]

I have been trying to talk our local sheriff into inmates to do processing. Money heard to go into the inmates individual accounts so they can have money saved up once released from jail. Most jails have a large freezer space. Our trustees in our jail work precinct road workers, county, maintenance, and a whole list of other things. They are able to do the same things working those jobs. We have two meat lockers in our county. One now does livestock only and the other will only take a certain amount of deer.we had a deer processor, but his building burned down.

[@dstagg069]

Hey o! Here we go

[@KyleMast12]

No D-map program! Encourage hunters with access to good hunting to invite other hunters help them reduce the numbers rather than giving one person permission to shoot a lot of deer. Helps bring back the deer camp atmosphere

[@CentralMississippiWhitetail]

Wait a second!! Ohio restocked from PA’s genetics. PA has a hard time growing a 125” buck while at the same time Ohio is growing 225” bucks. IMO The management rules should strive for herds with balanced populations and age structure. Science has proven that herds with mature deer are healthier herds. All managers should use that information. Look up the studies Much respect to this gentleman for coming on. Public ground produces some of the most balanced deer herds with the largest bucks in MS because of limit gun hunting during the rut and archery only.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Exactly. Mississippi has done a fantastic job with the public land management

[@JB-JB-JB-JB]

Great podcast.. could’ve been half as long if Jared would listen to the responses from guest and not ask repeat questions… geez. I agree with more research and funds to go to programs with processors for feeding our needed with antlerless deer! Sounds like a no brainer.

[@chuck8586]

2:56:19 thats also not how prions work. You cant have a genetic immunity to a flapped prion

[@SimanBrothersOutdoors]

Here’s a problem from someone who is HEAVILY invested in Ohio, and I apologize because I’m at the 1:18 mark so it may get covered later in the podcast, but post Covid the COST and even AVAILABILITY of butchering deer has changed drastically. In my county there were years with no processors willing to take deer. Then some eventually popped up (garage shops). And the cost because astronomical. Upwards of $200 per deer. Who is going to shoot 4-5 does when it’s going to eventually cost them that much money to get them processed not including the long drives since many area butcher shops no longer do it? Most average hunters can get by with their 1 deer a year (usually a buck) because venison isn’t consumed as much as it used to be family wise.

[@SimanBrothersOutdoors]

I made it through the podcast and you guys did bring it up, if your not butchering your own it’s just so expensive to do a large amount of deer. Especially early in the year when it’s still very warm out.

[@daveyboy8907]

Time for a cold one and some deer talk.

[@southernhobbiesadventures715]

Thought on lack of processors and incentive to harvest more antler-less deer. Why couldn’t the state run their own strategic processors?? They could process some for hunter consumption like private processors where it’s purchased and the rest for HUSH. Take it a step further and tie a vocational training program into it OR, have parolees work there to get back on their feet… Just a thought.

[@southernhobbiesadventures715]

lol, welp. I kept listening and state facilities was suggested… 😂

[@toddstewart9437]

Replace bonus gun with a early muzzleloader + mid December muzzleloader (bonus gun weekend) and then after that it is archery anterless ONLY through end of January. The shed bucks that are shot aren't enough to cry about

[@johnmcmahon1196]

In Michigan we have a Private Land doe only gun/bow season from the day muzzleloader season ends through January first. During that time you can hunt bucks or does with a Bow on PUBLIC land as well. Then in 3 southeast counties there is an extended archery season where you can hunt for bucks or does. I do appreciate these late seasons as that is when I kill all of my does. I hunt for bucks Archery-Muzzleloader then i finish filling my freezer with however many does i need. The only exception is the Early Season Private Land Antlerless hunt in September if I get permission on private land.

[@chuck8586]

24:25 it is really complicated why PA’s deer herd was so absolutely out of whack buck to doe wise by the 90s. However the root cause can be traced alllllll the way back to 1913ish when PA was 97% clearcut. By then, the deer herd was juuuuuuuust about gone completely. So gone, the PGC was founded to address the problem, and to do so they eventually had to reintroduce whitetail, i believe close the season for a bit, and keep no antlerless harvest for awhile. By the time seasons were all the way back (i believe by like the 30s) hunting culture in Pa had established that two things are universally true. 1) we need to grow the deer herd back. 2) we need to protect our doe and really only harvest buck. These ideas became deeply deeply deeply ingrained in PA hunting culture. Gary Alt discussed this with yall when he was on. This lead to an ever increasing deer herd with an ever decreasing age structure for the buck. It also lead after decades to serious serious forest depredation. Culminating in the late 90s early 2000s with an absolute NEED to address the forest situation and finally get the deer herd under control and properly structured. This guy says PA never lost its deer herd, but it absolutely did, and absolutely had to restock deer from michigan and other states. We probably just had to do it decades before ohio

[@Leatherwoodoutdoors]

Exactly!

[@justinl8279]

I hunt public all the way through last day of season. Unfortunately not everyone has access to private with corn piles. Public in the northern part of state is low density of deer. Add the pressure of the more hunters on public due to lack of private access. I’d say 90% of my sits I don’t see deer.

[@curtyoder2210]

Idea on meat processing.. could something be figured out to where deer could be donated for pet food production?

[@HUNTRPOD]

Maybe? We seem so discounted from the avenues like that or feeding the hungry

[@toddstewart9437]

Sad, y'all devalue a doe harvest as though its dog food. The amount of money that is spent on a mature buck( tag fee, processing fee, mounting fee, professional photographer fee, man cave fee, etc. etc. etc) and then can't figure out where it all went sideways. Sad

[@Hunting4knowledge]

People do that all on their own. Meat is meat and I hunt for meat. We as hunters did this to ourselves chasing bigger bucks and racks. Stomachs want meat but Instagram wants racks

[@kidneystones3406]

Do you plan on doing a follow-up story about the CJ Alexander buck situation he was found guilty of poaching that buck? To me, it is really fascinating how he went on several podcasts, knowing that he poached that deer . It takes a lot of bravado to commit a crime and go podcast and tell lies on how he killed that deer. If I did that I wouldn't tell anyone and I would keep low profile. I would like to know the details on how he poached that deer it would be really interesting.

[@justinskinner672]

Should of brought up draw state like Iowa

[@jodyluck2678]

Ohio's management system sucks is deer population in southern Adams County is about gone

[@seffhar]

I live in Iowa and did not hear about this change and can't find it. Do you have a link?

[@HUNTRPOD]

We had it come from a valid source but call the DNR

[@bryanmoorefield8890]

Mathew’s is where it’s at. 🏹🏹

[@veteranoutdoorsman9978]

As far as management I'd like to see Missouri manage public lands with limited draws for firearms seasons. Arkansas does this and the Quality of hunting is so much better. I've seen this in other states and always had a good experience. I like being able to walk in and hunt wherever I want but the quality of hunting suffers in my opinion. This would allow specific properties to be managed better as well. Some of the best hunting I have ever seen is on limited entry properties. I wish more states would take this approach.

[@codyyamnitz]

The whole state needs to go to a draw system for out of staters.

[@jeremiahmoore9108]

@@codyyamnitz Amen

[@Raised-Right]

Wish Illinois went back to draw system. Greedy politicians opened the flood gates here years ago. I'm lucky to be where I am but know a lot of people that have tough huntn now days

[@thomasstine2299]

I heard numerous times about how Ohioans are finding ways to exploit the system to not have to pay a penny to legally harvest deer. With the lack of processers mentioned, how does the ONR even have a clue of how many deer are being harvested in a year? Also, how hard is the state cracking down when they inspect these processers and the entrepreneur doesn't want to put up with theirs or CWD testing requirements? Their used to be a lot of processers that ONLY processed deer while trade work was slow and they don't want to bother with the red tape.

[@kohenmossor3549]

I didn't know about that doe tag or I would have actually got it the last few years. I passed on buying a doe tag because the ridiculous price. They don't make it well known intentionally I feel honestly.

[@jonathanleinbach4063]

I didn't know that I could get a $15 antlerless license that definitely is not clear in the regulations

[@HUNTRPOD]

Haha blew our minds!

[@toddstewart9437]

I guess it pays to read the regulations. The regulation book from 23-24 clearly states that deer management tags are/were available to residents AND nonresidents for $15. And you want to be my latex salesman?

[@curtyoder2210]

I believe the d map program could be a step towards getting landowners information and input.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Absolutely

[@KyleMast12]

What if farmers wanted numbers reduced rather than D-map make their properties walk in public for the year. More deer get harvested in a specific area and helps tackle access…

[@chuck8586]

2:41:56 conservation is the point. The point have never been just killing a big buck. Its about conservation

[@dereklanser7019]

Did you hear the trail camera ban in Iowa? DNR passing laws without the state looking at it. Not a bad law with there being a trail camera in every other tree here but didn’t get passed in the right way

[@jonathanleinbach4063]

I can tell you the resident landowners around me in Ohio don't care about the state laws on deer harvest limits for bucks and does. ITs' frustrating to a nonresident who is buying tags and adhering to the laws because they are good limits for the deer herd.

[@Hunting4knowledge]

I've heard from a landowner in ohio having to eradicate 50-200 deer a year on his farm, he did say he had a land management permit. Idk the ins and outs for I am just a poor pleb with no land or family to inherit from

[@MattJ25]

Great podcast, C*ossbows and C*rn Piles… always a podcast ritual, haha I wish the state of Pennsylvania would be willing to let some of their employees especially on the deer side of things openly discuss whatever they wanted on any open platform that was not the game commissions. Just saw this stats in a recent article related to the PA game commission putting in bow ranges across the state. 67% of the archery hunters are using crossbows in PA. So just like Ohio, around that 70 percent mark

[@toddstewart9437]

Resident landowners are also known as farmers. Their voice is being heard.

[@chuck8586]

Perhaps 50% are farmers but more than likely its less than 40%.

[@ItsAllGravy0123]

So I just go to Walmart and say I want a $15 deer management tag? But I don't own private. Still work?

[@emsneary]

Yes as long as you hunt on private land

[@ryanfarmer5155]

That Iowa party tag news is huge, wonder when that will be made completely public news

[@HUNTRPOD]

Is it not public? Lol

[@ryanfarmer5155]

I meant when the state will send out an official statement Jack azz, it's not like you guys haven't been wrong on your show before.

[@iane8705]

@@ryanfarmer5155 its on their website and local wardens have confirmed im waiting on the cell cam ban on public land

[@michaeljoslin7108]

Ames Plantation in Fayette County, TN.

[@mikepoulson384]

I see Pittsburgh is looking at sharpshooters

[@Sportingadventures1998]

So by this guys logic on cwd we should make it illegal to shoot fawns and yearlings and give out unlimited tags for anything older than that because we can’t let the deer get old 😂

[@bow7627]

Bunch of bucks growing horns in western ND right now.

[@archeryonly5629]

👍

[@still1.]

Genetically modified bucks make me think of steroid users and how it seems a bit ridiculous 😂

[@justinl8279]

If you want more deer taken and more doe taken then hunters need more access to land

[@HUNTRPOD]

Bingo

[@justinappling614]

I will never hunt with a bow because of bow hunters. Look down their noses at everyone “knowing” how much better they are than everyone else. Everything is already in their favor and they still find things to complain about. Piss and moan about crossbows…..on and on and on. I hunt with a crossbow because of bow hunters attitudes and if it pisses them off; then I’m happy about it. “I don’t know why someone would hunt over bait” yet plants 100 acres of food plots every year. People who would like to take a buck with a firearm are shit out of luck. Here’s an idea. How about every other year the seasons rotate. Meaning that the archery hunts are during gun season and gun season is during archery. Bow hunters heads explode 🤯

[@Hunting4knowledge]

Bait is cheating!... unless you use deergro

[@curtyoder2210]

I keep thinking about this episode. Some rambling thoughts in no particular order. - So Tonk is concerned about the deer herd growing out of control not enough does being shot. - You guys keep talking about how the hunting in Ohio is going down hill because of crossbows, corn piles and rifles. I guess you only mean older age class bucks? Cause if those items are making hunting so easy then we should have a population problem. - What actually IS the process of creating or changing a hunting regulation and WHO, does one talk to about it? -Tonk says everyone wants the Dmap program and DMUs and these were supported by all the stake holders and it still didn't happen. Why? So please, lets know the name or names of WHO, is stopping these kinds of decisions being made by the biologists? -IMO Ohio is in many ways where they are as a Whitetail state because of what Mike Tonkavich and his team have done over the years. - Im really tired of hearing about problems on this podcast without sound direction on solutions.

[@toddstewart9437]

As an Ohio resident, I've been reluctant to point a finger at non residents hunting Ohio. After listening to these PA fellas constantly grousing about conditions in Ohio I've changed my mind. First and foremost, Ohio needs to either limit public land hunting for non-residents or make them pay a habitat premium like other states and then use those funds to buy more public lands. Its time that non landowner resident hunters stop getting squeezed out.

[@HUNTRPOD]

It’s politics that are blocking change. Doesn’t matter if it’s sound biology and management. I agree on the non resident side, in order to make ohio better up the cost, BUT I also think resident landowners need to buy tags. Even if it’s cheap, any money makes them more responsible. You keep it free and you devalue the wildlife

[@toddstewart9437]

​​@@HUNTRPOD, saying its politics is too simplistic. The wildlife council requires that agriculture is represented by way of 2(?) members. It then makes sense that early firearms seasons are voted down due to conflicts with crop harvesting activities. As far as resident landowners being required to purchase licenses and permits to hunt their own land, isn't providing habitat and real estate taxes enough? If they feel as though their voice isn't being heard because they aren't solicited to take a survey, they can always call or email the ODNR DOW. And finally, Jared stated that he would have a difficult time supporting a younger aged deer herd( I appreciate the honesty) if that is indeed the biological best way away from CWD. Likewise, I find it difficult to support letting nature take its course, i.e. Wisconsin scenario, and then throwing away venison because of the high prevalence of prion diseased meat. I mean, would you feed it to your kids? Money talks and bullshit walks. Neither meat hunters nor trophy hunters have much to look forward to, I'm sad to say.

[@erickeplinger883]

I think the best way to motivate a hunter to participate in doe management is to incentivize with the opportunity for another buck tag. Each hunter that kills 2 or more does is entered into a drawing for another buck tag in Ohio. Run it like a points system. Each year you take 2 or more does your odds of getting to draw a second buck tag increases

[@HUNTRPOD]

Interesting proposal!

[@jasonlarson6932]

Jarod how did you lose your ring finger?

[@HUNTRPOD]

Treestand accident

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

Get chad stewart back on. Michigan still shit show. Jealous after listening to guy from Pennsylvania

[@toddstewart9437]

Seriously, learn how to process a deer yourself. Platform that for a change. Don't call crossbow hunters lazy when y'all don't process everything that you harvest. I'm not upper middle class, yet I can afford a walk in cooler

[@codyyamnitz]

All able bodied crossbow hunters are LAZY

[@toddstewart9437]

Define "able bodied"

[@codyyamnitz]

@@toddstewart9437 any man or woman or kid that can pull 45lbs or more off a compound has absolutely zero business archery hunting with a crossbow. If you have a legitimate shoulder Injury fine use the crossbow but I know tons of dudes all the sudden will have "messed up shoulders"

[@codyyamnitz]

@@toddstewart9437 and being fat is not having a shoulder injury. If a person can't draw a bow because of their gut they don't get to bowhunt that's why they have firearm season

[@toddstewart9437]

Crossbows don't necessarily need to have their own season, vertical bows need their own season. I suggest the month of October be dedicated to the vertical guys.

[@devingomez3312]

if you want such a challenge come on to public land and tell me how good the deer herd is. Stop hunting over food plots and tell me how much you like the challenge 😂