The truth about powerscaling

[@Espurr.8]

My problem with power scaling is the toxic people who take it seriously

[@FagnerLSantos]

It's interesting you mentioned Goku and Ichigo at the beginning because the comparison between these two is a clear example of how ambiguous powerscaling can be. Both characters can be scaled to universal level, but their verses are different from our own in the real life. Dragon Ball's universe is stated to be divided into a mortal realm below and a spiritual realm above (which was stated to be infinite in size), with Kai's world and Makai as separated realms. This makes Dragon Ball verse probably bigger than the real life one. Bleach in other hand is separated in three realms said to be equal in size (Living Realm, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo), but the flow of souls between those realms never scalated above planetary level (no souls outside Earth), which means Bleach's universe is probably smaller than ours and have a more geocentrist vision. Yet both Ichigo and Goku tend to be scaled at similar level due to their verses being adjusted to be like ours. Still, even knowing each verse to make the powerscaling, their verses actually were even more complex than what stated, Dragon Ball have more universes and a set of timelines while Bleach have the Hell and Dangai, those things adds more rules and more things to consider when doing a consistent powerscaling. In the end, powerscaling is fun, but it isn't something to be taken really serious. Most of the time, making powerscaling is just an act of building a script in our minds where we decide which character will win.

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah 100% agree, there is almost never a "this guy wins guaranteed". At least imo

[@MindoftheNorthStar]

Yeah, great video. I think powerscaling only becomes stupid when people start getting emotional and take it personally. Shikaku from Naruto probably can't even beat characters from _early_ DB or Bleach or whatever anime...but so f**king what? I still love the character. People act like they take Ls if their character takes an L I'm a grown man with bills ffs. Fiction characters aren't that serious

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah I always just make it for fun. If people disagree then thats good because it means they are capable of forming their own opinion

[@izzymosley1970]

I think the biggest problem in power scaling is how 2 separate magic systems interact with each other. it's basically all up too personal interpretation to figure out how is something like haki form one piece and ki form dragon ball would interact with each other.

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah totally agree.

[@arkkon2740]

I agree with this heavy, but my personal issue with powerscaling and powerscalers in general is just the inconsistency when it comes to canon material and supplemental material. Its especially prevelant in dragon ball scaling because you will have someone tell you that Cell is Galaxy-universal level and despite how little we've seen Cell outside of fighting, despite the fact that he's likely never went to space, the fact that he never actually tested this strength to its fullest until the tournament, people just die on the hill. I have no problem with Cell being thay strong, its just the fact that in so many cases I see scalers go through the effort of upscaling for an approximation rather than just saying "Okay, has he done this thing yet? If not, has he beaten someone who's done it?" It bleeds into my overall dissatisfaction with dragon ball as well but, there's just so little consistency that it just irks me to even bring it into the discussion.

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah thats my take too, I tend to just use the stated facts in the manga and try to assume as little as possible

[@treanmunt1420]

Powerscalers: Makes up some complex outerversal omniversal bullsh

[@ijudgeanime]

does tend to be the norm hahaha

[@ikeillue8385]

You aren't wrong. Dimensional tiering as a concept is nonsense to begin with. I mean, if I were to say "character X is stronger than character Y, because character X is north" you would probably think I'm insane. Yet that is exactly what dimensional tiering is. People are looking at something directional, and pretending like it determines magnitude. Its weird the extents that some people with go to argue that their favorite character is ridiculously powerful.

[@Stunt877]

@@ikeillue8385funny thing is when a author and another author actually makes a crossover special aka dbz toriko and one piece. The powerscalers can’t believe that they are seeing luffy toriko and goku are contending with eachother lol.

[@ikeillue8385]

@@Stunt877 To be fair though, even in that case the writers were fully aware about how outclassed the non DB characters are. I mean, there is legitimately a part where Goku completely abandons the plot in order to save the universe, then still returns in time to tie in the race with Luffy and Toriko, and immediately fights on par with them, despite having just expended the effort and stamina to save the universe.

[@ijudgeanime]

@@ikeillue8385 For real it's so stupid sometimes.

[@a_guy_in_the_internet]

The thing is, people say goku is outversal or something, while in his world destroying just a universe (just 💀) seems like a big feat, like vegeta shooked face when he heard that zeno can destroy a universe from whis Also the fact that cell strongest attack is a solar system buster, if we used power levels He should at least destroys hundrends of Galaxis As they say, power levels are bullsh-

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah honestly there is a damn good reason they threw power levels out of the window

[@a_guy_in_the_internet]

​​@@ijudgeanimeactually, now i think about it im happy they did that lol Not only the the power levels, even the form multiplier thing got rid of But yeah i still think power level is really a uniqe idea, it didnt last long but it still an impactful thing in the db, hell anime in general

[@ijudgeanime]

@@a_guy_in_the_internet yeah the idea is pretty good but the problem was that they jumped from 180.000 to shit like 150.000.000. The cell saga and beyond just got to ridiculous numbers. If they kept them bellow the hubdred millions i think it could have been pretty fine

[@lashonnakennybrew4847]

I respect your decision and I won't argue with it PS I'm hoping you make a video about the anime Miss kobayashi's Dragon maid how far would tohru get in Dragon Ball

[@ijudgeanime]

yeah sure tohru sounds fun to do

[@Onimxshu]

"goku wins" ( triggered my ptsd) btw waiting for the sung jin woo vid🙃 loved the yappathon 😁

[@ijudgeanime]

Omg how could you trigger me like this?!?!?!?

[@Onimxshu]

@@ijudgeanime lol u serious 😂?

[@SophieBraxton-i4z]

​@@Onimxshu How far would mcu hulk get in dragon ball I think red bibon saga

[@AzaiaMonota]

I think part of the reason we don't see mass destruction from all characters in DBZ is down to ki control and the ability to condense that power think a beach ball and a marble that both weigh the same if I throw a beach ball at you it's not going to hurt much if at all but if I throw a tiny marble of the same weight at you it's going to hurt a lot more the area of damage is smaller but it hurts a lot more because it's concentrated so if a character threw a punch capable of destroying a content at an opponent only a small amount of that total force would actually hit the enemy and the rest would go to waste but if they can condense that same force into a single point they can hit the enemy with all the force at once resulting in a much more powerful hit

[@Spiral-Mark]

I strongly agree with this. They've abandoned this power/magic system a while ago yet cards, games, other statements in the official books still use it for some stupid reason besides profit of course.

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah Guys like babidi are so much stronger then they are made out to be cause "power nullifying hax bro"

[@Spiral-Mark]

@@ijudgeanime lmao, yeah. Dragonball really needs a new power/magic system if it wants to strive more. A while back I've watched a video from another KZbin channel called Laughingstock Media that has discussed this very topic.

[@ijudgeanime]

@@Spiral-Mark Oooh yeah @laughingstockmedia makes great content about topics like that

[@Spiral-Mark]

@@ijudgeanime Absolutely for sure, pretty underrated. What are your suggestion of a new power/magic system for dragon ball?

[@ijudgeanime]

@@Spiral-Mark I think ki should obviously stay. But guys like moro, the kais, babidi, dabura, etc. Should be qualified as having magic and ki. Both of whoch are seperate. Magic can affect people differently then ki. Another interesting one could be to differentiate ki into various subtypes more clearly. Destruction ki, healing ki, disruptive ki, strengthening ki, etc. Every character should be specialized more instead of just being your default all round fighter

[@missyummy1040]

My personal issues with DBZ power scaling is the whole "Immune to hax" argument thing, of course I'm not saying they're not, we have example, but at the same type, not every hax work the same, like how Ajimu Najimi from Medaka Box, her hax works differently in comparison to Dragon Ball, also most of her abilities are something Dragon Ball characters never experience before, so we cant just say they're immediately immune to it, of course it would be hypocritical of me to say Ajimu abilities would or wouldn't work, but you get what i mean right?

[@ijudgeanime]

On god this is so annoying. "Goku is immune" is the most boring out ever made

[@missyummy1040]

@@ijudgeanime again I won't deny he's resistance, but it's hard to believe he's immune to everything, like instant death, like I'm sure no matter how strong you are, you can't just over power death like that

[@ijudgeanime]

@@missyummy1040 Yeah I 100% agree with you. Goku is strong as heck, but he is not unbeatable by any means

[@missyummy1040]

@@ijudgeanime until a few chapters later where Goku beats death lol

[@veryangryboi4128]

What I learn about power scaling is there isn't really a correct scaling for the characters. Everyone has there ways to highball or lowball characters and its all pointless since writers don't care about power scaling.

[@jakubwiktor5874]

Yeha and to add that the universe in dragon ball is bigger than universe in sailor moon and where the universe end enemies comes at very late in sailor moon( at least form what I heard) in begining of dragon ball super the clash betwen berrus and super sayian god goku was stated that could just destroy the univeese and then goku only gets stronger

[@SophieBraxton-i4z]

Please man do how far would mcu hulk get in dragon ball I think he would at least get two tail mersiniary Tali I think we'll passed the red Robin saga

[@SophieBraxton-i4z]

How far would mcu hulk get in dragon ball

[@goldenangel158]

It also depends on how a characters act as well like I believe shiraori from so I'm a spider so what has a chance against beating goku because goku likes to see how powerful his opponents are so he doesn't go out right away shiraori doesn't do that she would try to end a fight as quickly as possible plus the hax and she can't die unless you destroy all her spider clones in her pocket dimension because she can send her own soul to a spider clone but I do think vegeta would beat shiraori because of his hakai form and vegeta isn't like goku he would go all out

[@ijudgeanime]

Goku is the type of guy to hold back and lose because of that. His personality is too goofy 99% of the time

[@goldenangel158]

@@ijudgeanime yep and shiraori is different sure she acts goofy as well but when she is fighting someone she takes it seriously and she would use every dirty trick to win and she's really smart as well

[@ijudgeanime]

@@goldenangel158 Yeah Goku to me is the epitomy of "he isn't stupid, he's just an idiot sometimes"

[@goldenangel158]

@@ijudgeanime I agree

[@mrfamer3752]

7:45 Did you forget about ki control? You can make this same argument for most characters in dragon ball.

[@arkkon2740]

The whole idea with ki control has always been iffy If Gohan didnt tank a blast from cell then it would have blown up the planet, but an attack meant for SSB Goku that misses would only blow up a mountain at most Frieza shot a blast at goku and that blew up a planet, but Broly blasting away the arctic didn't blow up the earth as well, so what is it? Its never consistent, and we dont even get a reason why this inconsistency is present

[@mrfamer3752]

​@@arkkon2740The constistency is what the character wants to do. Freiza and Cell wanted to blow up the planet, as did vegeta when he fought goku for the first time. And roshi for example wanted to blow up the moon but not the area he was in, so he never did something like that either. Most other characters dont want to do that and only want to kill the person they are fighting. Its pretty constistent if you think about it. Like the whole reason beerus and goku was going to destory the universe in super was because of poor ki control. So its fair id say.

[@arkkon2740]

@@mrfamer3752 Frieza wanted to kill goku, he aimed *at* goku, if he wanted to actually blow up the planet then he would aim straight down. He didn't think goku would just flick it away, and he sure as hell didn't think an entirely different planet blew up And the poor ki control think is just on goku's part, but clearly its just him doing that otherwise every missed punch and kick would blow something up. And you didnt mention Broly. He aimed for Goku and missed, just like Frieza did, and he didn't blow up the planet this time. You can't even say its a ki control thing, cause he clearly doesn't care if he'll immediately jump to beating on Frieza and Whis the second he sees them.

[@mrfamer3752]

@@arkkon2740 Frieza probably didnt care, the planet blowing up dosent effect him but it would goku. For Broly however it would, which is why he never blows up the planet. Why cant he have ki control just because he is angry? Goku does that all the time. I dont see the problem. Saying its inconsistent is just you giving up on explaining it.

[@michaelgarcia5493]

Me power scaling I think ruins the magic of a charaecter on how powerful because we don't really know and that's what fantasy is about if you say that charaecter can beat that charaecter ok that's what you in version that's how our imagination works I feel there's no rules when comes to comics and manga it's you the wrighter rote that charaecter like if we're to say can Bruce lee beat super man I will say yes because one super man is not real.

[@ijudgeanime]

Yeah, it's personal opinion for a lot of it

[@michaelgarcia5493]

@@ijudgeanime I'm glade someone agrees with me because I been a long time dbz it's why are peolpe makeing dragon ball the strongest anime when there other anime or comic book heros that can beat them

[@Nighproductions]

Yeah it's not the same. Dragon ball universe's are WAY bigger.