The TRUTH about Protestant Sacraments w/ Ethan Dolan

[@tbojai]

A yearning for the True Eucharist also helped draw me out of my Baptist church and into the Catholic Church.

[@manorama12]

Praise be to God 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@slickmechanical]

Me too.

[@rdf256]

"Well, toward morning the conversation turned on the Eucharist, which I, being the Catholic, was obviously supposed to defend. [Mary McCarthy] said when she was a child and received the Host, she thought of it as the Holy Ghost, He being the 'most portable' person of the Trinity; now she thought of it as a symbol and implied that it was a pretty good one. I then said, in a very shaky voice, 'Well, if it's a symbol, to hell with it.' That was all the defense I was capable of but I realize now that this is all I will ever be able to say about it, outside of a story, except that it is the center of existence for me; all the rest of life is expendable." - Flannery O'Connor

[@evelynmariesaiter4636]

This is so interesting as I am a Evangelical Christian and have many issues with Calvinism and the Reformed church. But I respect their desire for true Christianity.

[@benedictchinweuba5820]

Apart from baptism, the Protestant sacraments aren't really sacraments at all.

[@effafanai17]

Apart from Baptism, Protestant have 'the Eucharist'....

[@benedictchinweuba5820]

@@effafanai17 Protestants don't believe in transubstantiation.

[@jeremysmith7176]

Marriage as well.

[@mattschneider78]

Have Dr. Jordan Cooper on to discuss Lutheran sacraments.

[@nicford1486]

Yes!

[@lemondedusilence5895]

I think another thing to mention is that the reformed view (Aside from Bucer and Capito) of the Eucharist isn’t really an objective presence. It’s more of a presence of Christ that is constituted in the believing subject by faith. This is evidenced by the fact that they believe that non-believers don’t actually receive the body and blood of Christ, just bread and wine, thus making the presence dependent on the subject.

[@zionlion4445]

💘Thank you Matt! Enjoying your speaker, and the subject of The Holy Sacraments! God bless Ethan Dolan!🙏 God bless you, your beautiful wife, and lovely children, and everyone in this channel!🙏 I wish y'all a blessed weekend!🙏 (Try to make the First Saturday!)💘🙏💘

[@PintsWithAquinas]

🚨 Get exclusive content by supporting me on Locals: mattfradd.locals.com/support

[@SAD-ij8in]

Watching a second time to absorb this. Great discussion!

[@ainako1010]

LOL. For real. It's like I'm not dumb, but give me a second. haha. I love these discussions

[@andrewfeurtado8698]

I grew up Presbyterian and everything was very symbolic nothing was literal. When my teenage cousin got baptised I said “how does it feel to have a clean slate” they just looked at me like I had 10 heads… Baptism isn’t even taught to be necessary by most protestants 🤦‍♂️

[@simonwills540]

Do you only get a clean slate upon baptism? Shouldn't you save baptism till right before you die then? Just trying to understand sorry

[@andrewfeurtado8698]

@@simonwills540 baptism removes the stain of original sin and past sins its clearly spelled out in scripture regarding baptism. Read what John, Jesus the apostles etc have to say about it if you are confused!

[@simonwills540]

@@andrewfeurtado8698 where does repentance come in?

[@andrewfeurtado8698]

@@simonwills540 its a process that begins at Baptism/conversion. Being “saved” isn’t a one step process kind of like part of having faith is remaining faithful.

[@simonwills540]

@@andrewfeurtado8698 So where does repentance come in? Does that not provide a clean slate? What if you sin after being baptised?

[@joshburks4079]

have Gavin Portland on your podcast

[@Wilkins325]

Ortlund

[@norala-gx9ld]

@@Wilkins325 Really good overview of a really good book kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZLTg3uDZ7agr7c

[@PintsWithAquinas]

I am … soon

[@Traven158]

As a non-denominational (I guess Protestant?), having read through scripture cover-to-cover during the latter half of last year, I do wish my church would hold more reverence for Holy Communion.

[@atlproductions216]

Do u believe in Christ presence in the Eucharist?

[@markushill8639]

In fairness, Holy Communion does not exist anywhere outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I wouldn't be very reverent with normal bread and wine either, as my day to day life would be witness to.

[@ReasonAboveEverything]

@@atlproductions216 define presence

[@skitsschist11]

@@ReasonAboveEverything the Real Presence

[@atlproductions216]

@@carolynkimberly4021 well I agree with you, Protestant churches can’t perform transubstantiation. However, he could still believe in the catholic teaching as he appears to be having problems with the Protestant ideology to begin with. Perhaps this could be step in the right direction for him leading him to the church!

[@adam12732]

1:32 Best way to avoid straw-manning is to ask what the person you are discussing with’s position is.

[@southernlady1109]

The Catholic Church is the only place on earth The Transubstantiation occurs. God gave us His commandments, Church, Clergy, Teaching and Sacraments to get us into Heaven. Ex 20:1-17, Jn 14:15, Mt 19:17, Mk 3:14-19, Mt 16:17-19, Jn 21:15-17, Mt 28:18-20, Eph 2:19-22, Jm 5:14-16, 2 Cor 5:18-19, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:18, Jn 6:51-59, Lk 22:19-20, 1 Cor 11:23-29, Mt 3:11, 19:4-6. Jesus wanted everyone to be His One True Church, not break away. Eph 2:19-22,4:5, Jn 10:16, 17:20-26. Matthew 16:17 And in response, Jesus said to him: “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. Matthew 16:18 And I say to you, that you are Peter(Rock in Aramaic) and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:19 And I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever YOU shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever YOU shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven.”

[@michaelhaywood8262]

You are right that Protestants do not have a valid Eucharist, however much some Anglican/Episcopal services may superficially resemble the Mass. Anglicans lost the Apostolic Succession in the late 15th century under Queen Elizabeth I. However the Eastern Orthodox Churches share with us a valid priesthood, and an Orthodox Liturgy is a valid celebration of the Sacrifice of the Mass. However it is schismatic, so we Catholics cannot satisfy our Sunday Obligation by attending an Orthodox Liturgy. An exception might be if visiting an Orthodox majority country such as Greece or Romania and there is no Catholic Church nearby, Then it would be a good thing to attend a Liturgy, although not receive the Eucharist,

[@TheDjcarter1966]

As a convert this was one of the things that led me to Rome every protestant has a different view and nobody on the protestant side agrees because they can all make up whatever they want.

[@joshualindsay6750]

I enjoy many of your videos, but these conversations with a former Protestant hit the wrong note. I am a Christian in the evangelical tradition and felt like Ethan did a poor job depicting Protestantism. I would really appreciate listening to you converse with a current Protestant who is much more knowledgeable and has a personal conviction regarding Protestant beliefs and sacraments. Thank you for being a light on KZbin!

[@johns1834]

He wasn’t very specific. Kind of boring. Sorry

[@tomgreene1843]

The New Covenant radically changes things .

[@theamericancristero7390]

They aren't

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

Baptism is valid. Two Protestants marrying is sacramentally valid. I think that’s it.

[@markushill8639]

@Micah Pasquarell Not two protestants per se but two baptized people consensually becoming unified with the intent of unification "until death do [them] part." Baptism is only valid with the proper formula, something which non-Trinitarians lack.

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

@@markushill8639 fair, but but Benedict XVI changed the canon law back, so, if one of the two baptized persons were originally baptized Catholic, they cannot enter validly into a sacramental marriage without the blessing of the Church, etc. That’s why I said “Protestants”, but I think your definition is more broadly accurate (as long as a Catholic isn’t involved).

[@markushill8639]

@@MikePasqqsaPekiM Oh yeah, fair enough. Also, I wasn't so much trying to correct you, I was just intending to flesh your comment out more for any potential passersby. God bless, brother.

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

@@markushill8639 you too, brother, and I took no offense. Appreciate the clarity 👍

[@chrisnewberry6691]

I watched that part where he talked about how partaking in the eucharist makes us like Jesus twice! So good! Praise the Lord!

[@bernarddavis9579]

The title of this video is not good. It declares that this video gives us the TRUTH about Protestant Sacraments, but Ethan Dolan is clear that he is expressing his personal understanding, not the TRUTH, and than his views were formed by a small part of protestantism. including a Reformed Baptist Seminary. Reformed Baptist belief is a pretty specialised thing.

[@barelyprotestant5365]

This is one of the few converts from Protestantism to Romanism I've seen in which they accurately understand their Faith Tradition (and actually had a Faith Tradition to call their own). Hats off to this guy.

[@j.athanasius9832]

The amount of genuine *nuance* in Ethan's response really puts Michael Lofton to shame.

[@masterchief8179]

“Romanism”… Ideological anti-catholicism at its peak.

[@barelyprotestant5365]

@@masterchief8179 I am incredibly pro-Catholic, being a Catholic myself.

[@EustaceKirstein]

Look into the "Coming Home" program / ministry by EWTN. There have been thousands of Protestant ministers who have "come home" to the Catholic Church through the years. That program does a long-form discussion with many prominent, well-spoken, and well-studied Protestants who were ministers in their respective denominations. Powerful program.

[@barelyprotestant5365]

@@EustaceKirstein that's absolutely hilarious. One of the last videos I saw of, "the Coming Home Network" was a woman who was so happy that the Papists were doing the TLM and was arguing that the Papal Communion was the true Church because one of the languages on the sign on Christ's Cross was Latin. With most of the interviews with converts to Papism I've seen, and most of the conversations I've had with converts to Papism (and I mean, like, 99%) demonstrate to me that their understanding of historic Protestantism amounts to having read the back of a John MacArthur book once when they were in their sophomore year of college. No: most of your converts to Rome, by far, know almost nothing about historic, classical, Confessional Protestantism.

[@JonathanMellorn]

Im in a Dutch Calvinist Church, Eucharist/Lord Supper, is highly reverent, and Christ is “ truly present” in the elements of bread and wine, and our understanding. “Truly” meaning “present in a special Way” not generic, omniscient, or omnipresence’s. The ceremony of our church would look something like a Norbus ordo mass.

[@EthanDolan1274]

Yes I would have held this before as a Presbyterian as well. Unfortunately my old protestant church didn't really come up! We would even use an altar rail and kneel to receive communion.

[@JonathanMellorn]

@@EthanDolan1274 that's great, We kneel sometimes but not in communion. What was your main reason for changing?

[@enniomojica7812]

You may believe Christ is present in what you call the bread and wine but is he really. Your ministers cannot consecrate the host since they are cut off from apostolic succession.

[@JonathanMellorn]

@@enniomojica7812 well… if that’s true than I am without Christ after all. I tend to think that the objectivity of holy baptism, which is taught in the Catholic Church, May also be true of the eucharist. Even Vatican II seems to indicate a formula of consecration, which most traditionally church use.

[@enniomojica7812]

@@JonathanMellorn you are under a sincere impression that the communion you eat of is the body of Christ. God wills everyone’s salvation so would not damn you for having a false but sincerely held belief. However once you realize that your communion isn’t valid then you will be fully responsible for partaking in Christ’ body or not. The Church teaches that since only the Orthodox have valid holy orders through unbroken apostolic succession only they apart from the Church have a valid Eucharist. Everyone Else doesn’t even have the proper understanding of it through transubstantiation.

[@vincewarde]

Thanks for having someone on who could more accurately describe the beliefs of Protestant evangelicals. As someone who was educated at a Baptist university, but is ordained in a Wesleyan/Evangelical denomination, I would only add that many of us who came out of the Church of England, have an even higher view. We firmly believe that Christ is present in the elements of communion - although we believe He is there is a special and very real, spiritual sense rather than a literal, physical sense. Although this would never fly in Catholic circles - Wesley encouraged those sincerely seeking faith to partake of Holy Communion, while recognizing the Holy nature of the Sacrament. We do this still and I literally saw someone come to faith in Christ during Holy Communion. You will never convince me that Christ is not present in a real, special and unique way when His people follow His command and celebrate the Lord's Supper.

[@markushill8639]

Where 2 or 3 of us gather, Christ is present. This much is true. But the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is a totally different kind of presence, one which doesn't exist outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

[@DoctorDewgong]

@@markushill8639 important to remember that the "2 or 3 of you gather" thing is about literal apostles, not just anyone. Luckily the Catholic and Orthodox have retained succession so we still have the apostles. Even if a protestant believes in Christ's real presence in their communion, they don't actually have it

[@markushill8639]

@DoctorDewgong Oh interesting, I've never heard that exegesis of that verse before. But yes, absolutely. God bless!

[@createclass8340]

@@markushill8639 what do you make of Pope Paul VI giving his episcopal ring, and a communion chalice to the See of Canterbury?? I really think Saepius Officio is a great warning against denying Anglicans their apostolic succession.

[@Sheilamarie2]

@@markushill8639 You are correct! St Ignatius, the Bishop of Antioch, succesor of St Peter the Apostle, says so in his letters to the Churches. If not given by the Bishop (the Eucharist0 , it is not valid. And thus my reasoning, any "bread and juice" given outside of a Catholic Priest (ordained thru a Bishop, who can trace his lineage to an Apostle) cannot "consecrate" bread into the Body of Christ. For Protestants, it is simply "a symbol".

[@berniepfitzner487]

Interview a Lutheran like Will Weedon. Lutherans believe in baptismal regeneration and the real presence of Christ's flesh & blood in the Eucharist. Its the best deal ever being Lutheran.

[@peterjordan9354]

@@norala-gx9ld Yeah, but just recognizing the sacraments doesn't make them valid in your church. Just because you believe in the Real Presence doesn't mean your ministers have the authority to perform the miracle of transubstantiation. A Catholic would say a priest ordained through apostolic succession is needed.

[@Jessica-rb3ci]

Yes but Lutherans (LCMS anyway) hold a monergistic soteriology, denying spiritual free will. Also they hold to a literal young earth translation of creation. These two things kept me from being confirmed in their church and keeps me looking towards Rome.

[@NevetsWC1134]

@@norala-gx9ld so what about the fact the Anglican Church started when the king wanted a divorce, but the pope wouldn’t allow it. So the king killed his bishops until he found one that would allow a divorce? Or the fact that Martin Luther was a Catholic priest before leaving the church?

[@NevetsWC1134]

@@norala-gx9ld and the word transubsantion may have come from the 11 th century but the idea of what it means can be seen way back in 155ad by writers like justin martyr, and others. Who claim that the Eucharist truly is the body and blood of Jesus.

[@michaelhaywood8262]

Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, which is the idea that the Body and Blood of Christ and the elements of bread and wine co-exist. This is not compatible with the Catholic teaching.

[@jh8896]

John 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

[@createclass8340]

The traditional Anglican position on sacraments is very much in line with the historic church! Much more catholic and apostolic than many Roman Catholics realize, I think.

[@gijoe508]

All to no avail if you aren’t in union with the Holy See. Peter is the confirmer of the brethren. Come home.

[@createclass8340]

@@gijoe508 and the East?

[@markushill8639]

@Create Class The East retained Apostolic Succession, as evidenced, amongst many things, by their incredible doctrinal stability in the thousand years since their schism. The Church of England hasn't made it near half a decade before falling apart, for starters. Furthermore, your ordination rites were changed centuries ago: you have no validly ordained priests. Without validly ordained priests, you have no bishops to ordain further priests. Apostolic succession ended centuries ago in the Church of England.

[@danielvecchio9942]

Is there one Anglican doctrine on this?

[@createclass8340]

@@danielvecchio9942 good question! No, there's no one definition... across the whole anglican communion is more of a range. It spans from a spiritual presence to a physical presence. Edit: Some of the similarities on my mind were that the mass is sacerdotal (although it's a bit different definitionaly), the use of all seven sacraments as sacraments, and baptismal regeneration, to name a few.

[@mac8179]

I’ve met too many Catholics that have more faith in the Eucharist than in Christ Himself.

[@Fasolislithuan]

Your comment is contradictory. The Eucharist in Catholicism is Christ Himself. Therefore is ontologically imposible have more faith in Christ Himself than in Christ Himself.

[@tonytony6359]

@@Fasolislithuan well said

[@mac8179]

@@Fasolislithuan I could rephrase it to say "relationship" but you know where I'm going.

[@aajaifenn]

A big difference would be that the forgiveness offered in the eucharist for Protestants is for all sin . For Catholics it would only be for venial sins

[@EthanDolan1274]

Yeah this is really going to depend on the protestant, like many of these discussions. The Reformed tradition wouldn't have this kind of thing, where Lutherans and High Anglicans would.

[@aajaifenn]

@@EthanDolan1274 True ..however Calvin himself and the 16th century reformed confessions like the Scots Confession would talk about Christ's atonement and it's benefits being applied to us in the Lord's Supper .

[@EthanDolan1274]

@@aajaifenn Hmm interesting. I do vaguely remember this now that you say it. I'll do some research! Thanks!

[@aajaifenn]

@@EthanDolan1274 You are a humble man considering your prodigious intellect. Thanks and God bless

[@mesafamily5830]

The fact that each position is explained by Greek philosophy indicates to me through which lenses you view the world. And with most Romanists, it is interpreted through the doctrines of man, not God

[@pavelrazamazov2672]

Oh stop it

[@mesafamily5830]

@@pavelrazamazov2672 OK!

[@fredtrevino9201]

Both Protestant and Catholic have errors around the Eucharist, I think…. Protestants don’t regard our Lords real presence and Catholics don’t administer all the elements, bread, wine and water., that is our Lords body and blood.

[@markushill8639]

Yeah, we do. The wine, before its consecration into the Blood of our Lord, is mixed with water. Both forms, Body and Blood, are totally present during Mass.

[@regandonohue3899]

Have you been to mass? The wafer is an unleavened bread. The priest pours wine, then water into the cup prior to blessing. Seems pretty in line with what you said, if you ask me, unless you subscribe to the idea of leavened bread.

[@sittingbull7445]

As someone who believes that both baptism and the Eucharist are heretical accretions, this whole topic is extremely bizarre. 😅

[@gerardk51]

What color is the sky on your planet?

[@markushill8639]

Baptism?! Christ commands it over and over again.

[@limoncellosmith7594]

Christ Himself ordered His Apostles to baptize, and He instituted the Eucharist. You don’t appear to have read the Gospels.

[@gijoe508]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

[@gijoe508]

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you