The TRUTH About The Monarchy | Aaron & Ash Downstream Special

On the 8th of September this year, Queen Elizabeth II died.
In a special episode of Downstream, Aaron and Ash discuss her life and the aftermath of her death.
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[@clairemartin3246]

16 years ago today l was burying my beautiful- amazing son James, who left this planet far too soon. He is the only one l'm remembering today- not some irrelevant woman who was pandered too and spoilt her entire life. Miss you so much James- God bless.❤

[@robskibulletmovement8998]

R. I. P James 🙏🏿

[@martynw377]

Rest In Power James

[@tonyr4873]

@@martynw377 🤣🤣🤣

[@chriskinsley4922]

My condolences

[@saraswatkin9226]

Same here, my brothers birthday on 19th Sep who died in 2017. RIP my brother.

[@vseme1572]

Amazing young people! I am 54 years old whose lived in six countries and this podcast is a treasure trove of insights.

[@gchelem]

I agrée and that’s I decided to support them.

[@hazelwray4184]

@@gchelemand that's why I ...

[@gchelem]

@@hazelwray4184 sorry miss, do I have a detention?

[@badr8b8t]

I am a 54 yr old and have never been anywhere. I have no idea of colonial history or any moral compass. What are these multi cultural educated types trying to do? I don't want to sing the national anthem in private or have to think critically. Gruel Brittania 🇬🇧

[@badr8b8t]

Just kidding. Wonderful comment 👏

[@AnonAnonAnon]

A few decades ago an elderly lady who lived a few streets away from me passed away. She had no family and no savings. She had a council funeral (or paupers funeral). No one was allowed to attend, or at least, no one was notified of the date of the funeral. The council responsible paid for her to be buried in the same grave as her mother, which was a nice gesture I suppose. My mother wanted to make a small contribution but was told there was no provision for this. This was in 1979. Today she resides in an unmarked grave, no headstone. I can't help but compare that to this funeral today. The pageantry, the pomp, the ceremony, and the overall cost. I know she was the Queen, the head of state, etc. Pauper funerals still take place today. A lot of elderly will chose this winter, heating or eating? Rest in Peace Your Majesty, but you've left a country that is utterly divided by the haves and have nots.

[@tonyr4873]

The 'haves and have nots' are really the people who are more competent, tried harder, and made wiser choices, or have ancestors that did, versus those that didn't.

[@Nigfis]

@@tonyr4873 The haves, in the case of the monarchy were all about theft of land, cruelty and slavery for 'those that didn't '

[@studiostyx7075]

@@tonyr4873 Ah yes, the Thatcher approach to not just coming right out and saying you don't give a damn about anyone else and have no intention of helping others.

[@tonyr4873]

@@studiostyx7075 And maybe you have the Marx approach of blaming those that do well for the circumstances of those that do not.

[@tonyr4873]

@@Nigfis Yes, because anybody who prospers must have done so by exploiting others. Classic Marxist nonsense!

[@rivolinho]

I'm Irish, visiting London for a few days during this time. Coincidence I hasten to add..... It's really brought home to me the huge difference between the Irish and English. Hundreds of years of living under the boot of colonialism has ingrained a kind of generational acceptance of reality in us. We have plenty of problems of our own but we all know where our ancestors came from and we're grateful for the freedoms and prosperity we have today. The vote is still seen as a hard won prize that we should cherish. This absurd mourning of a demigod, a bit like Brexit, reveals a country that is in the grip of a national delusion. Millions of ordinary people who are happy to throw their rights on a bomb fire and watch their economy slide off a cliff as long as they get to wave union flags, keep out the foreigners, and grovel to the monarchy.

[@jkally1]

A national delusion indeed, enforced and upheld my the British media. And yet its a country with a high level of historical immigration and a presence of ethnic minorities, mainly from the ex-colonies/commonwealth countries. It take a great deal of historical amnesia and cognitive dissonance in to revise the history and reality of the British monarchy. The English are so skilled at sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and singing "God save the [monarch]" as, like you said, we're experiencing a social and economic crisis.

[@frankcarter6427]

tiocfaidh ar la

[@fyank1]

You are so right. The country has gone mad and is totally divorced from reality. The reality is the corrupt Tories are destroying the country whilst some of the public are engaged in this complete charade!

[@julianshepherd2038]

Scottish monarchist tend to be more sensible but she wasn't head of the Church of Scotland.

[@MartianTom]

Well said, sir. Sláinte mhaith duit!

[@martynw377]

Listening to this conversation while everyone around me is going mad makes me feel a lot less lonely in my beliefs. Thank you guys :)

[@freebeerfordworkers]

You watch too much television for the majority of people I know it was just another working day particularly if they were self-employed. If they were interested they watched a few minutes of recorded highlights without getting screwed up about it.

[@svetlana7904]

Lovely comment, nicely said... like a poem:)))

[@xyzzyx101xyz9]

So glad you are persisting with this discussion when so few dare go against popular sentiments.

[@annamack5823]

Most people don't want to go against popular sentiments - it's why they're popular 🙄 But, then, most of us are British.

[@annamack5823]

@@redlightmax No, they'd have to be saying mean things about the "trans" people for that to happen.

[@greglane8655]

@@annamack5823 ah, I see, they aren't British because they're brown?

[@annamack5823]

@@greglane8655 They aren't British because they aren't British (and, no, the English/Scots/Welsh and Irish are not brown - any more than are any of the other Northern European races). You clearly didn't read my comments properly. What a surprise 🙄

[@junewebb-baptiste2409]

She didn't react to Diana's death till shamed into a response by the public and Tony Blair

[@Raspberryruffles-ul7hu]

Exactly !! Have all these "mourners" got amnesia ? The same people who wanted to lynch the Queen when Diana died.

[@protitikhan3861]

I am such a huge fan of Ash. I have never felt so represented in media than having Ash say my thoughts for me but in a much better accent, and much more articulate than I could ever be, as a South Asian woman living in the West. South Asian women don't usually have Ash's politics and so I really feel a connection with her and her observations. When a monarch died in the 21st century and everyone lost their minds I could think of no one else's take I wanted to hear more than Ash Sarkar. My sister from another mister from across the pond! In Canada, there's a reckoning brewing with the colonized First Nations people here as well as the many people of the Commonwealth who are here from around the world. Do you think we'll get the Kohinoor diamond back now Ash? I mean Lizzy doesn't need it anymore now right? Love you girl! Keep leading the way, I am right behind you!

[@jdb641]

Lol

[@johngreylove1359]

Why do you want the diamond back? Aren't you supposed to be Canadian now? Or were you lying all along?

[@mb7290]

@@johngreylove1359 what's that got to do with anything? Don't think stolen wealth should be given back?

[@joygibbons5482]

Kohinoor? We’ll, Afghanistan, Iran, or Pakistan. All possible and all make the claim

[@sudeepr5277]

All countries, empires, tribes steal and plunder. The British just had really good PR.

[@TheRaptorXX]

"I don't think people realise how the establishment became established. They simply stole the land and property off the poor, surrounded themselves with weak-minded sycophants for protection, gave themselves titles and have been wielding power ever since". Tony Benn

[@TheRaptorXX]

@Pee Who? ME? Now how would you know what I do, how old I am or what I do and do not pay for, hmm?

[@margaretconaghan5994]

Thank you both. For the past week I have felt like an alien in this country.

[@victoriavelvet3689]

remember Diana dying, at 18 I actually cried because I knew how devastating the impact was for her children. Instinctively disliked Charles.

[@kernowarty]

What? Do you mean she died inside when she first met and started going out with Charles at the age of 18?

[@MartianTom]

But young women die every day and leave their children behind - and very few of them will have the impact 'softened' by so much wealth and privilege.

[@ThepPixel]

You are aware they were both cheating on each other?

[@davidlawrence942]

Diana was the only liked royal at the time an not one of the royales will ever be liked as much as her.

[@redted366]

IMPACT HAHAHAHA

[@richardgrant9771]

Lindsay Hoyle said it was the most important event in history, if that's not peak sycophantic jingoism, seriously Aaron its completely nuts

[@cardigan3000]

just seen two guys talking to Huw Edwards - one guy claimed without irony that she was the queen of the world and that she founded her own religion. not challenged - everyone nodding

[@MisterBurtonshaw]

Hoyle is a waste of skin, TBF

[@geoffpoole483]

Hoyle will say anything to get a peerage.

[@MrBurtonshaw]

@@geoffpoole483 It does seem like. .. or 'Loyal to the establishment/Parliament, not to those that elected him.

[@zerobeat2020]

"Demented" is a superb description Ash, the word that springs to mind my mind is "obscene". One woman dies of old age and it is the most important thing ever, costing the taxpayer tens of millions of pounds, while only a year ago "ordinary" people died by the thousand from a pandemic that some politicians still believe we spent too much money on. Let alone the thousands of people that may die this winter because they will not be able to pay their energy or food bill. When are we going to get 20 days of mourning for those people? When are we going to get a chance to stand in the queue for 25 hours to pay respect to these people?

[@naeemkhan1951]

We need to educate the public how the French got rid of their oligarchs ( dakoos )

[@user-ml1rv1jk3w]

The monarchy, in my own opinion, is an integral part of being british; I say this as a young adult whom has felt the ravishing's of the poverty margin. Lack of food/heating has been a lifelong struggle; these upcoming months only serve to make it more challenging. However, the monarchy have held a special place in mine and my family's heart, this was especially true for her late majesty the queen; a leader who stays with you until their death; who has sacrificed ever living a normal life in service to their peoples; whom the people can find common cause with each other. The monarchy separates Great Britain from being just another Island state on the map

[@naeemkhan1951]

@@user-ml1rv1jk3w The royals have not built any university,hospital,out of their personal millions .

[@priscillaroberts7945]

I still ,after asking on several threads, what exactly did she do ? Service and duty meaning what?

[@naeemkhan1951]

@@priscillaroberts7945 lived a very privileged life on the backs of public.

[@rogerward9684]

Absolutely loved it...Fair, Facual and a lotta fun...Thanks to both of you for your quick fired wit 'n' humility.. God save A&A 🙏

[@marywhite7091]

But the queen DID use her power in Scotland. Her lawyers amended a recent green bill before they were even seen by MSPs in Holyrood - to exempt balmoral from climate change laws affecting landowners. And a recent investigation has found the queen to have had further access to around 60odd other bills, previous to parliamentary readings. It’s now being demanded that we find out how many OTHER Scottish bills has the queen been allowed to amend to her own, and her families interests and benefit.

[@stephenbarlow2493]

Ash is as bright as a button, and such a great social commentator. Able to construct long relevant narratives off the cuff.

[@ianwatson5605]

The swearing is a little over the top.

[@PeachBeach]

@@ianwatson5605 obviously warranted

[@James-mb3je]

Totes irrelevant but pretty too.

[@valq10]

@@ianwatson5605 lol. how old are you?

[@carolineuk1111]

She's great. I'm afraid I do get distracted though by the mispronunciation of the word 'monarch'. Its pedantic, I know but my brain won't let it lie.

[@sharkarris]

It's extremely refreshing and a big relief (from the perspective of this 65 year old) to hear you both talking so very much sense in a week when there's been nothing but odious and obsequious sycophancy spouted in the media. Big thank you Ash & Aaron! ❤

[@sharkarris]

p.s. If you haven't already done so Ash, you should go back a little further in history to Richard I and check out Eleanor of Aquitaine. As a teen I could never understand why Richard the so called "Lionheart" was considered to be such a hero, when he only spent 9 days in the country and cost the peasants (aka the common people) a great deal in tax to fight the Crusades and pay his ransom when he was captured and held hostage. Then I discovered Eleanor, who had been airbrushed out of history, and it all started to make a lot more sense. I think you would appreciate her if you haven't already found her Ash!

[@MrNewtonian]

Big thank you to Ash and Aaron , you sound sycophantic.

[@nicholaswright3081]

The final person who went past the coffin after waiting all day said "it's the highlight of my life" Man what sort of life must she have had!!! Sublime objects of ideology.

[@andrewwright7712]

Describing the media as milk monitors is inspired and wholly accurate. Great stuff as always.

[@klaudiafentem4876]

Thank you, Aaron and Ash, for keeping me sane during the time of national hysteria. I am almost filing for a divorce here with my husband because he’s gone queen mad 😳😂 just shows the extent of the royal powers on the population…yet no one can quite explain exactly why it is that they love the queen so much. As always, all your arguments are so intelligent and eloquently put. An absolute pleasure to listen to. Love you guys. Keep up the great work ❤

[@johnbyrne6677]

Ash your a ledgend, John from ireland

[@number94]

Novara has kept me from going mad for the last 10 days. So, thanks. BTW, somebody in Royal circles needs to teach Charles how to smile warmly and well. As the Queen did. But perhaps you cannot teach that to an older, unhappy man. In which case he's never going to be popular.

[@freebeerfordworkers]

A friend who is no republican and been to royal receptions also thought it was being overdone just don't watch the news or pay too much attention when you do and you will be fine.

[@digbycrankshaft7572]

@@dccisco9515 what?

[@deliawest3607]

Charles is a 'mini' Phillip, he's a loose cannon, it won't be long before he 'blows it! If it had to be any of them, Anne would have been a better choice, she's more like her mother, at least she works for what we pay her! He'll crack under the pressure & make some crass statement & implode!

[@barnabywild2215]

Another aspect, of course, is that a great many of us have only just recently lost parents before their time. However, unlike up to and including the Queen's passing, we were unable to visit our dying relatives to comfort them and say our goodbyes. We weren't able to attend their funeral. We just had to cope as best we could during lockdown. So we see the passing of a 96 year old woman in the comfort of her own home, surrounded by her family, followed by an insane amount of fawning and reverence leading up to a magnificent funeral in a much more different and tainted light. Furthermore, an awful lot of us remember the shabby way Charles and friends had treated Diana which ultimately set her on course for her tragic death. For myself I've loathed Charles from that moment on. His tantrums at slight inconveniences have not receded with age - witness his recent pen incident. He's a petulant child in an old man's body. I suspect he'll be the nail in the coffin of the monarchy. Fingers crossed.

[@svetlana7904]

But look, never forget, God is watching, look what is happening nowadays with Harry... Gods punishment

[@nicksturgeonbooks]

"The milk monitors of Twitter!" Fabulous.

[@Love101738]

Abolish the House of Lords

[@victorybeginsinthegarden]

Yes

[@Theslavedrivers]

Good luck with that.

[@FLIPMODE630]

Thank god for the internet and finding people who aren’t sheep great stuff

[@househeadspeakz]

I enjoyed this talk from both Aaron and Ash. They pulled no punches and told it like it was. Too bad the chicken sh*t mainstream media can't grow and pair and do the same!!

[@Dazbo76]

Msm is captured isn’t it people need to turn off the telly and research stuff for themselves not as if the truth isn’t out there

[@TheLegenDacster]

Antoine. The MSM are paid for their specific output, it's nothing to do with growing a pair.

[@digbycrankshaft7572]

Msm is owned by tools of the establishment. They will never do anything other than maintain the status quo keeping the rich in power and the poor impoverished and without opportunity to advance themselves. It is ridiculous to expect any real call for change from that entity.

[@nicentoasty]

I met Diana sailing, her family has a wee island in Scotland, I walked up and apologised for the intrusion, but we threw stones in the water for a while, she was very personable

[@billelder125]

Diana's Family OWN a small Island in Scotland! !!!? Well it's time to issue a Compulsory Purchase Order!!!!

[@johnpawson3807]

So good to hear you both discussing this today (19th Sep 2022). A welcome escape from the funeral. Depth of knowledge, history, politics is stunning. I couldn't even bigin to tackle this subject. Love you guys ❤🙏

[@KirillyCosmicSpacePriestess]

Thanks for keeping us sane whilst we endure this social sorcery 💚

[@jamesoneill2933]

Social sorcery. A splendid turn of phrase to explain this mourn porn , there has indeed been much more than a hint of occultic ritualism around these parasite's since the time of John Dee who held sway in the court of Elizabeth I. Not least the induced birth of William at summer solstice a case in point.

[@MartianTom]

Mass hypnosis.

[@croesusdelta231]

What Ash is saying about racism being exuded by certain people is quite interesting since really what a lot of people did not understand is that this is really what Brexit was all about. Many of those that voted for it wanted to be able to be free to be racist and denigratory to non-white citizens as they were in the late 50's and 60's. Now that Brexit has happened, they feel that they have won. They are now free to spout hatred or belittle or invalidate a non-white citizen at any opportunity. Not just skin color racism, but also "class" predjudism. These things for some are what defines "Englishness" or "Britishness".

[@ruthsutherland2573]

More evidence that IQ has plummeted.

[@frankieseward8667]

​@@ruthsutherland2573 the decline is very clear.

[@Ghengiskhansmum]

​@@ruthsutherland2573 and life expectancy.

[@Petal4822]

How many £Billions do illegals migrants ( mostly men) coming over from safe France cost the taxpayer? They are flooding into this country at an alarming rate… and leave safe France to sponge on our free benefit system….putting a terrible strain on the NHS, housing and all our public services. While British people may die this winter because of escalating fuel and food bills. You can’t have a welfare state and open borders.

[@colinbrigham8253]

Thank you Ash and Aaron

[@SAMDYZD]

In Australia, the media is making a bigger fuss about the monarchy than UK probably is. Invoking similar response as North Koreans when their figure head died.

[@jgmediting7770]

Without knowing what Australia’s coverage has been, I can still confidently say you can magnify it by a factor of 10 and you still wouldn’t be near the uk media or corporate pr.

[@Bnio]

One of the Aussie channels keeps getting this old dude named Dickie on who argle-bargles an awful lot about Harry wearing a uniform. At least the hosts seem to have fun pushing back politely.

[@SAMDYZD]

@@Bnio yeah, true, these so called royal experts nauseate me.

[@stevenponte6655]

I get the British the reaction, but the reaction in Australia is embarrassing.

[@SAMDYZD]

@@stevenponte6655 absolutely… Channel 9,7 & Murdoch press’ coverage and pushing news feed has been nauseating.

[@davidbrisbane7206]

I watched a bit of the coverage and I wasn't sure if a Saint or a Queen had died.

[@kssk79]

I admire you, guys. You both are brilliant!!!

[@Af1st1]

I live in Wolverhampton I have seen no public showing of grief anywhere!

[@ydaveyyy]

I was in my 30s when Diana died. Actually , most people did not make a big deal of it.. was all over the media ( bigger than the Queen's death) , and there was mass hysteria at the time.. my point is the hysteria was still.a minority of people. Most people got on with their lives wondering why their compatriots had gone so crazy. Incidentally Mother Theresa died the same day .

[@scooby1992]

Shit ! Aaron thinks he is old in his thirties . There is no hope for me in my 50s . Thanks for another great video guys .

[@paulinecoburn181]

Just thinking that….I’m in my 70s…..obviously should be pickled in a jar by now 🙄

[@mango4ttwo635]

ironic point on Diana and Mother Teresa. They died the same week, and M Teresa's death was largely overshadowed

[@davidbrisbane7206]

Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end for the unelected monarchy.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

The national shut-down on monday is shameful. People need to do things, need paying, need to go places, need to buy things, need to post things or whatever it may be. Ugh. The cohersive power of this hysteria is absurd. Its literally FORCING people to change their lives for nothing. Its not like anyone is even getting anything out of it. National day of mourning? Ok, pay us then! We paid for her!

[@andrewruddy962]

Sadly, GP surgeries and hospital treatments are cancelled . Many folk have been waiting for a very long time. Who made this irresponsible decision ?

[@anonymoushuman8962]

I need my meds for my arthritis. I was supposed to get them on Saturday but the gps were closed… the pharmacy was closed and was told by the people at 111 that i have to wait to order them on Tuesday which means I won’t get them until Thursday. I am in excruciating pain and stuck here with limited to no movement. I depend on those meds and now I am stuck. This whole funeral thing makes me sick to watch as it does many others. It’s way too much. All this fake “mourning” is nauseating and more over it’s as if we all have to mourn this woman who in actual fact didn’t do a single thing worthwhile imo. What’s this nonsense about her giving her life? She’s rolling in it. She never had to do a days work in her life and we are supposed to give a rats ass. It’s so low quality.

[@chrishowell6469]

Its insane. We didn't shut down the nation this fast when the Rona hit the country. But I suppose that's only a virus that can and did kill hundreds of thousands. She was the Queen. She was on stamps and stuff.

[@lucyroberts9226]

​@@anonymoushuman8962 oh poor you so you don't think that we should have any bank holidays then

[@dylanbrewerton-harper3471]

The ability from both of these legends to just quote Shaky P and random events throughout history is utterly spellbinding. I am always surprised at just how in love I am with Novara Media. Best £5 a month I spend :)

[@robred19]

It's been years in the planning - it's all choreographed, induced. This is all about power, as weakness in a system is always in a place of transition, hence why the system has pulled out all and every stop to brow-beat, manufacture and create a momentum, in which the 4th Estate has played its role to almost near perfection....until some Scottish fella dared to shout a truth and now faces arrest...yeah, go figure?

[@dannytoots6635]

a series of non-sensical generalisations

[@sammckinstry]

You say: 'the system has pulled out all and every stop to brow-beat, manufacture and create a momentum'. Utter drivel. You are at liberty to opt in or out at will. Switch your telly off. Go for a walk. Read less Foucault and poss-modernist philosophy, some of it valid enough, and instead read what the people are actually doing and saying for a change.Their opinion carries as much political weight as yours. Whether you like it or not, this is what many are comfortable with. This website of smart Alex, self-congratulatory undergraduate -level, foul-mouthed, chip-on-the shoulder sneering is a waste of time. I'll go with David Hume: if monarchy works for us, why not keep it. I say that as someone who is not oversold on it. However, it has big advantages which offset its disadvantages. We don't have to be the same as everyone else. Britain was the first country to outlaw then get rid of slavery, in which black Africans were participants as well as victims. and has done the same with empire. If more Commonwealth countries want to opt out of the Commonwealth, they will. No problem. The monarchy will adjust downwards. They are not stupid.

[@robred19]

@@sammckinstry If we are to do philosophers, I'd go with Voltaire, who said, the tragedy of the poor, is that they'll cling to the chains of their own servitude. And boy, is the UK poor today. I find it quite incredible, in a week where we lay our longest reigning monarch to rest, this is the week, that numerous scientific institutes release the news that numerous tipping points in our planetary environment have been breached. From Greenland to the Antartic, due to irreversible climatic change and with ice regions the size of major islands crumbling into the sea, by 2060, over 30 million people will be forced to migrate because of rising sea-levels. What were we doing in this week, that this news was announced. Yeah, that's right, queuing for a person, who stood at the very apex of a system that has largely brought this eventuality about. Bestowing knighthoods and gongs on people who have traded in death, despair and environmental calamity. You cite David Hume (a Scot) who professed a belief that the monarchy somehow works for 'us'? Errr..no, it works for the 'system', or as Cobden called it, 'the thing' ...the rapacious, immoral, dangerous and dysfunctional system that has bequeathed nothing but war, misery and inequality on a population who have had to undergo the wool being pulled firmly over their eyes. Conned into thinking that Royalty has always been an institution of continuity and stability. Try telling that to the Duke of Windsor, Queen Anne I, Charles I, Henry VII, Richard II, Edward II, Queen Matilda and Harold Goodwinson? As for slavery - Yes, we abolished slavery and we never ever dare to look at the underside of that coin, do we? Because if we lifted the other side of that coin of slavery, we find another word, engaged in that activity. Something the Royal Household has done its very best to conceal. Genocide! From the 1560s to 1837, Britain engaged in slavery but also engaged in genocide. The average life expectancy in the 1780s on a plantation in the West Indies, (if the slave made the trip) was 6 weeks. Either dead from disease, maltreatment or incineration in sugar refinement. With this activity going on...knowingly going on...what did our Royal Household do? Thats right, gave slavery the Royal Seal of Approval....and before we go down the...oh but it was a different time, different morality....from the 9th century onwards, Christianity was preached across the realm, every Sunday, where Thy shall not kill, Thy shall not steal and Do unto others was spoken every week. But if we are to celebrate the ending of slavery - do we show contrition for it, like the Dutch government are currently doing? As they set up a wealth fund to compensate its victims, educate its people and promote the immorality of slavery. Or do we still venerate an institution that benefited from slavery and has never (at state level) lamented as to its role in slavery (genocide)? I will not be going for a walk...I will have the TV and radio off. Id rather spend my time (enforced) off lamenting the crimes of our past and the sadness, that a monarch, who had the opportunity to express the hurt, pain and agony that both the state and realm has committed, did not seek contrition for it. Thats the sadness.

[@sammckinstry]

@@robred19 Thank you for your long reply. While you were composing it, I watched and was enriched by the heritage, architectural, musical and ecumenical spiritual content of the Queen's state funeral, and as I write this, am watching the procession to Windsor. You can see our monarchy as an apparatus to support a class and economic system that you think has no place in today's society, or you can see it, as I do, as an institution that has gradually adjusted itself to changing times, plus the gradual emancipation of its erstwhile empire and which, long term, will gradually marginalise itself until scarcely existent/relevant. There are many things we didn't vote for, including when, where or who we were born, our place in society and the world into which we were born, its political and economic order included.I agree that capitalism is making a pretty good job orf destroying itself and the world we live in, on a pathway that long predates you and me. It needs reformed at a global level, but this must proceed locally and can only happen slowly. Ms Truss may escalate its demise in the UK, but she is cunning. We have to wait and see. Consider a few other aspects. Had it not been for empire, large tracts of the world would not have been delivered of cannibalism, local genocide, the killing of female children and rapid death from curable Indigenous illnesses. We gave them medicine, education and gradually, democracy, through the civilising vehicle of trade. We also offerred them Christianity, which has partly been taken up .I am not yet seeing aplogies for slavery from those on the 'suuply' side of it, many of them African tribes exporting/selling their fellow African tribal enemies, while I am beginning to see apologies and financial compensation offered by British universities for our country's involvement on the 'demand' side. As I said before, Wilberforce and UK Christianity had it reversed after millennia of existence. It is no surprise it took a long time to dismantle it. I will take no lessons on it from those who do not recognise the contribution of their own peoples to it, or cannot face up to it. I trust our new King will continue his trajectory in the direction of involvement in green concerns and respond positively to requests for disengagement from the Commonwealth gradually or completely. Meantime, I and others will continue to enjoy the benefits of our fading monarchy, some of which I mentioned, but which also include the cultivation of a climate of decency and a sense of national unity. I am a Scot and a Brit - both. You and I should be grateful for our educational system and the ability it has given us to reason. It's our duty to try to do it fairly, with which i am sure you agree. David Hume advocated pragmatism in the evaluation of political systems, my approach to our monarchy, not monarchy per se. Best wishes.

[@PurushaDesa]

Ash's "You wot mate?!" face is priceless in that thumbnail.

[@Moosemoose1]

The very fact that you even have to ask the question "do we need a royal family?" in the year 2022 is tragic

[@shabnumtv9097]

I think the royal family's collusion in Andrew escaping justice really needs to be laboured, and I don't think Ash or Aaron go far enough in questioning the queen's centrality in that campaign to not only cover up Andrew's sexual proclivities, but to rehabilitate his shattered reputation, even against the advice of those members of the family and staff wary of negative public opinion. Let's not forget, Andrew had a playboy reputation even in the 1980s, and made a career in building relationships with (and enjoying the hospitality of) equally despicable people. Even with a complicit mainstream media, it really is not hard to uncover Andrew's activities; the difficulties lie in publishing the truth for public consumption, and getting the authorities to take legal action. That would mean an aggressive and concerted effort to protect Andrew, and by extension the monarchy, from exposure. It beggars belief that the Queen would be ignorant of any of this, particularly regarding her favourite son.

[@freebeerfordworkers]

If all that is true why did they not go after the well known Americans on Epstein's guest list?

[@shabnumtv9097]

@@freebeerfordworkers If you know anything of the history of criminal proceedings against Epstein, you'd know then that Epstein himself escaped justice for so long because of law officials simply looking the other way, or failing to investigate or prosecute him to fullest extent. That Epstein was exposed is down to a very few tenacious journalists in backwater publications tracking down victims and mapping out networks of privilege and facilitators, when major newspapers refused to touch this story with a barge pole. Epstein flaunted his wealth and his proclivities. Others who enjoyed his "hospitality" would have been as wealthy and influential, but much more discreet in wielding power to protect themselves from exposure

[@mmalayika813]

Thank you for making the week bearable.

[@56postoffice]

This week was like; *"Really? Get. A. Grip, people!"* Diana was a young woman, still in her prime at only 36 when she died in 97. The Queen was 96 and about to check out, anyway. Anyway, we live in Brexitland and can expect this kind of enforced foolishness.

[@nicentoasty]

My grandad, ex military, always said to me, 'Do mnot put her on a pedestal wee man, but that wee woman is as fucking sharp as a tack' that was in the 70s

[@TheMrEventz]

Also, Ash, is my favourite affairs reporter by a mile 👏🏾 sorry Aaron you are brilliant too

[@margaretposnett4871]

Brilliant discussion, thanks both of you

[@lifelongred7056]

Andrew should have stood trial,if her majesty had have passed away before the Epstein trial and Charles was king,Andrew would have have been thrown to the wolves and rightly so. Freedom of speech is a myth,what difference does it make that Charles is a monarch people still have the right to voice opinions. We live in uk in a society where by if your opinions are not aligned to other people,s you get some pathetic keyboard warrior calling you names. I'm not bowing to that big eared tosser I can't stand the royal family,I respect them as people but I think the dodgy monarchy should be abolished.

[@joygibbons5482]

Andrew would have stood trial, if the US or UK legal authorities could actually bring a charge with any realistic chance of standing up in court.

[@MartianTom]

As an avowed republican (how ironic that the Queen's coffin will pass the statue of Oliver Cromwell on its way to Westminster Abbey), I feel a certain sadness - more like nostalgia - at her death. Any death is sad. But just let one of these distraught, overcome with emotion, weeping and grieving 'I'm going to queue for hours in the freezing cold' (just like a homeless person endures every night) arch-monarchists EVER call me a 'snowflake' again for being a vegan, minimalist peacenik!

[@user-ml1rv1jk3w]

Vegan, minimalist, peacenik snowflake

[@Quelqueshue]

Brilliant conversation, especially glad that the Putney debates and Thomas Rainsborough was mentioned by Ash. It's a pivotal point in British history and relevant to so many of the discussions we have today.

[@colinthompson3111]

This was a great discussion. I hope you do it every Sunday. May I request that you have a guest who differs in opinion from Novara.

[@pipster1891]

You can get that everywhere in the mainstream media.

[@RM-ti8nf]

That's basically the bbc and I hear enough from them already.

[@joolst1149]

Love how these two are constantly dropping gems!!

[@Phil-oq2gw]

I was 7 and remember just being annoyed when Diana died because nothing else was on TV. Funnily enough I felt exactly the same with Elizabeth died.

[@RM-ti8nf]

Fantastic, I could have listened to another hour. Thanks Ash and Aaron.

[@nickfiggis6396]

Fucking genius what a pair.

[@ivanmorf]

Thank you for your lucid discussion

[@wallofcontroversy]

30:40 "So i think it's a really interesting contradiction we see that still today: you have striking workers of Avanti trains or RMT workers in the London underground or Royal Mail workers... and the CEOs always say the same thing: 'you are rejecting modernisation. The inevitability of upgrading the networks. Get with it, it's the 21st century." Hello, the head of state sits on a giant golden throne surrounded by stolen gems from the last two and a half centuries of colonial conquest." Beautifully put Aaron. I salute you.

[@amorfati8084]

Bilbo Baggins seeing the ring on a chain around Frodo's neck at Rivendell springs to mind regarding Charles and his pen

[@croesusdelta231]

This is part of the intrigue and perhaps mystique of the British monarchy, the people never know what they are going to get. From the madness of King George to the apparent eccentricity of King Charles III.

[@christianecoughlan7392]

Great conversation you two! Agree with you 100%.

[@richardgosling2427]

Awesome guys you have opened my eyes!!!

[@W1nDs0R]

I was pissed when Diana died, I was about 4/5 and there was no cartoons on any of the 4 cchannels we had at the time.

[@MsPeabody1231]

I just thought it was hysterical shit.

[@angela8858]

Such a good conversation. Aaron andAsh are brilliant.

[@MaryamofShomal]

As a lifelong Anglophile (for lack of a better term; Britophile would be more apt), I majored in European History and studied abroad at UCL during law school. And as a Persian-American who came to the US from Iran as a toddler in the 1980s: I’ve personally been impacted by the UK’s imperialism and colonialism. That education and life experience has shown me all the good that the Brits are capable of - and all the bad. With that being said, y’all can’t expect the free world to take you seriously in 2022 with Charles as your monarch and Liz Truss as your PM.

[@AnonAnonAnon]

You can learn as much as you want in a classroom, pass the exams, but you know nothing unless you've lived here. You do know imperialism and colonialism has nothing to do with us present day Brits, don't you? The British Empire was built by the top echelons of British society, the Lords, Royalty and politicians of the time, and NOT the ordinary British folk. Decisions made and agreed via No10 Downing Street. I'll give you a great example, the Irish famine. Lots of examples of English towns, people and factories donating food stuffs to be sent to ease the potato famine most of which was condemned by the elite of Westminster at the time. Ordinary British people just wanting to live peacefully and treat others the same. India and Pakistan partition. Again, another complete f*&k up by the aristocracy of Britain and approved by No10 Downing Street and NOTHING to do with us ordinary folk. You are painting a picture of Britain that is not correct in the present day. And its strange how today thousands of Iranians are making a journey across the Middle East and Europe to come to Britain for a life of freedom and opportunity!

[@ruthsutherland2573]

And their long friendship with Jimmy saville.

[@MarkJones-zh3ho]

Let the reign take the strain😅

[@ChristisLord7777]

I love Ash. What a lady.

[@simonwintle2232]

Sanity amidst all the insanity; intelligent, thoughtful, insightful and interesting discussion. Thanks Ash and Aaron, and the Novara Media team.

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Ash nailed it: "top down mourning" imo. to suit top down government and the enforcement of ineptitude that masks the exacerbation of inequality.

[@townsendv58]

Thanks guys I like your conversations because I get a different perspective Agree with Aaron about a slimed down monarchy. Even my parents are (no longer with us) used to complain about the wider royal family, "hangers on" as they were called.

[@derekglasspool946]

Excellent guys, very well put.

[@benstutley2904]

Nicely Tackled Ash & Aaron! thanks :)

[@MartinJames389]

The irony of the myth of Henry V and Agincourt is that lot were overthrown by a Welsh-French crew, the House of Tiwdwr (aka "Tudor") and their line conked out in 1603, whereupon England borrowed the monarchy of Scotland on a sort of job-share arrangement. The result is that Brenda was, and Brian is, descended from Robert the Bruce plus (later) a bunch of Germans stirred in. Yet the romanticism is very English, isn't it? And the people who go on about "History blah-de-blah" don't seem to know any, not even the schoolbook kings n' queens stuff, let alone the more relevant history of the people, our struggles, revolts, gains and setbacks.

[@seanwallace3516]

Im a sad old tory but the cointrybhas gone insane. Thanks for helping me know im not alone with this discussion.

[@ahthatsnescafe2985]

Loved this! Could listen to you both discuss anything 😂

[@fionamacvane3187]

Thank you for this very interesting and necessary discussion. It provided an insightful and thought provoking contrast to the media hysteria around the Queen's death and funeral.

[@joygibbons5482]

Hysteria, really, where and when?

[@janetbain-littlefair2165]

Love the countdown numbers before the start,,, 😉

[@johnfarley4201]

Great and honest debate. BRAVO. Just the ticket.

[@humongoushugo6986]

I feel like I could just watch these two for hours on end. Brilliant stuff and exactly the kind of robust, intellectually and historically informed discussion that we need not just now but as a basis for a strong public sphere of discourse in general.

[@fuckbankers]

The Monarchy is The Firm.

[@lunacougar]

Excellent analysis!

[@christyson2649]

Love you Novara

[@croesusdelta231]

Great program by the way. Thank you.

[@PeachBeach]

Great episode guys, so so good.

[@michaelhutchinson1713]

I'm a Californian. I love your show. It makes me think.

[@peterjones596]

Well, that's two of my dream dinner party guests nailed. As always, excellent debate from two totally brilliant people.

[@88nollaig]

Great discussion. It’s a pity there wasn’t more like it on the general media. Royalty? Off with their heads!!

[@yam83]

They've done it before, they can do it again.

[@jmuller986]

As an Argentinian living in the UK 10 years ago, the usual answer to the question "Where you from?" still surprises me. I am Jamaican-British or I am Chinese-British. The way of dividing yourself according to your ancestors. My ancestors are German and Italian but I would never say I am Argentine-German-Italian. In Argentina, if you were born in the country, that makes you Argentine regardless of where your ancestors are from. I think this kind of ethnic segregation makes a Divided Kingdom

[@neilhogbin7252]

Love the abstract rounding up

[@isbestlizard]

Ahaha lost it when charles was doing his euhghughhghh face like sideshow bob

[@nicentoasty]

Having a BA in English Lit myself, it is incredible the amount of history you learn

[@salih5447]

Yea, UG (and above) literature encompasses a lot of history and philosophy. It really opens up the world to you.

[@helenswan705]

great discussion, very informative

[@ogieogie]

Thank you for tying in the history of odd-numbered Charleses.

[@petercampbell8694]

How many elderly woman (and men) died lonely and unable to hug their families in care homes during COVID-19......where is the service of remembrance for them?? 😡😡😡

[@petercampbell8694]

@gigi v I’m sorry for your loss

[@stephanied.k.3589]

Ash has done a better job at describing the real contribution of QEII than most of the t.v. personalities covering the Queens death.

[@edwardfenech6533]

not difficult TBH considering the poor competition

[@patriciamelo251]

Ash mentions Britain as the mythical small island that rules the waves and I immediately drew a parallel with my own country Portugal. The same applies to the the national sentiment of 'small but powerful'. In Portugal's case I guess it's worse: in Wallerstein's words, Portugal was a semi-peripheral country with an empire. Great analysis, Novara. Thank you, Aaron and Ash. Regularly watching and reading Novara from this semi-peripheral rectangle.