The Truth Behind Lewis Brakes: MTB's Most 𝘾𝙤𝙣𝙩𝙧𝙤𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙨𝙞𝙖𝙡 Brand

[@DaleStone]

I believe that everyone deserves to have access to all of the facts in order to make an informed decision. When I was researching the history behind Lewis for my in-depth LH4 review (coming… soon™), I discovered that there was a lot more to the story than any influencer or western outlet had reported on. The history behind Lewis is actually quite interesting and extremely nuanced, to the point where I decided that it needed its own dedicated video. I tried to be as objective as possible throughout the video, and am still neither for or against Lewis as a brand. This video took a ton of time to put together over a few months, and has no sponsor since I didn't feel that would be appropriate, so I hope you learn something and enjoy! 🙂

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I love what you did here, I also had to do a bit of homework just to get a set in Canada last year, spoke through email and eBay chat with them, my initial impression was a bit mitigated but they came through with delivery and all the explanations I needed also I spent awhile on Mandarin language engineering and commerce forums trying to see what's what. To be honest you did a lot more homework than I did 💪🤓👌 Cheers!

[@oldmanbucksaw]

This is a great video Dale. You really did your homework and presented your findings in an unbiased manner. I'll probably order a pair of the Lewis flat mount calipers for one of my gravel bikes this winter and play around with them when snow conditions suck for fat biking.

[@jack-k6z7n]

THANKS 4 THE REVIEW I WILL PASS STICK WITH XT AND XTR

[@GamersNexus]

Wow, this is great! My bike mechanic sent this to me (hi, Matt!). Glad to see this mindset taking shape in other industries. We've really liked having the policies just all written down and published like that. Glad to see it might serve as a reference for other industries. Keep it up! Also, don't hesitate to shoot me an email if you ever need help translating or navigating Chinese social media!

[@CurtisCycles]

tfw your 2 nerd worlds collide on KZbin 🤣

[@straubinio_styo7768]

A Gamersnexus comment praising journalism is probably one of the best compliments a KZbin channel could ever receive.

[@River_Miles]

GN videos in the morning, a Dale Stone vid in the evening. Thanks Steve.

[@anselmbuder]

I just love it when to of my worlds collide and result in better journalism in BOTH the pc gaming hardware and MTB spheres

[@KiwiInGermanyMTB]

That's some pretty hardcore journalism Dale. Nice researching. It must be pretty shit designing something and then having someone rip it off and sell it cheaper but then again, maybe you don't need to sell your products at such a premium. I guess brands like Gucci etc feel this a lot.

[@DaleStone]

I feel for Trickstuff, but if they are as infallible as many believe then they should have no issue designing the next best brake. The consumer will always win. 🙂

[@diphje]

@@DaleStone Trickstuff is perfectly fine. They aim at an elitist customer circle that won't purchase a counterfeit product anyways. German forums are full of people that are very verbal about only buying the real stuff. People that are buying these brakes wouldn't have bought a trickstuff in the first place.

[@DaleStone]

@@diphje I agree, and I am not concerned for Trickstuff's financial wellbeing as I mentioned in the video. 🙂

[@thegarageluthier]

​@@diphjeThey aren't counterfeit, they are replicas of the original with their own improvements good or bad. Plenty of companies in the west have done the same. Personally more competition is good and pushes companies to improve.

[@danielanthony1054]

@@thegarageluthier imagine you spend all your free time designing a guitar for example, would it not hurt you to have the design ripped off by another company?

[@Qinhaocheng]

Opinions about Lewis aside, that's A LOT of research, especially with the language barrier! Can't imagine how much work you've put in. Also, I believe this video has the longest script of your videos by a big margin. Really hope people can watch this video in full, great story telling, objective and restraint opinion addressing. Btw, thank you for putting that short Cypress clip into this Seymour/Burke video haha.

[@DaleStone]

Thanks, that means a lot! It definitely took the longest time to produce of any video so far haha. And of course I had to use that clip! 🙌

[@downhillupside]

Great video. It's not often we get 'influencer' videos in the mtb world that have some journalistic chops. Some of the big players could learn a lot from this.

[@DaleStone]

Thanks! It's disappointing that outlets with paid staff were unable (or unwilling?) to conduct a similar level of background research on a relatively unknown brand.

[@brandonreimer184]

They didn't get paid to do it, so unwilling?

[@DaleStone]

@@brandonreimer184 it should be the duty of every creator and media outlet to conduct sufficient research on new brands before presenting them to their audience, rather then waiting for someone else to do it.

[@brandonreimer184]

@@DaleStone I couldn't agree with you more.

[@richard9984]

I had a Lewis Takisawa brake set with the original red calipers. They were identical copies to Trickstuff, down to parts compatibility. Several parts were replaced with genuine Trickstuff parts and fit perfectly.

[@DaleStone]

Which country do you live in? Thank you for confirming my assumptions, helps add credibility to the research I've presented. 🙂

[@richard9984]

@@DaleStone I'm in Sweden, but I got them via a friend who got them from a friend in China via their... taobao shop I believe?

[@iffy_too4289]

What Trickstuff parts did you use with your Lewis?

[@Katalyhsathor]

Also worth mentioning that Cornelius Kapfinger, the guy discussing with them in the comments, is a former Trickstuff employee and founder of Intend.

[@DaleStone]

Yep! I left that in as a little easter egg for those who know, haha. I fully agree with his stance too.🙂

[@vicentemorande1558]

@@DaleStone Whats Cornelius stance? Can't find his comments!

[@DaleStone]

I left it in towards the very end of the video, about it being weird to rely on the knowledge of others and then patent improvements (and pulling up the ladder) so that others cannot do the same. He wants to see more unique ID and IP in the next gen too.

[@dominikgarbauer6883]

Would be interesting to see in what way Intend was learning (or copying) from other fork manufacturers in developing their own model. They certainly weren't the first ones to produce an upside down fork.

[@DaleStone]

For sure. Everyone learns from everyone else, otherwise we'd still be living in caves and hunting local deer for food. 🙂

[@HeretiCflow]

What you should take into consideration is simply the kind of players we're talking about. Trickstuff is a tiny brand of 30 bike nerds who designed and engineered their products from scratch. Up to the DT takeover they could barely manage themselves in business terms, leading to excessive delivery times etc. On the other hand you have an established Chinese sporting goods company that's probably several sizes of magnitude bigger taking advantage of small players, simply because they don't have the economic weight to protect themselves or make these quick and dynamic business moves. It's just morally wrong and not a leveled playing field. Whether this changes with the DT takeover has yet to be seen. The damage is done.

[@DaleStone]

Although in general I agree, I think that Lewis and Trickstuff are targeting such different consumers that their sales will likely be unaffected by each other's actions. Nobody who is going to buy a Rimac Nevera will second guess their decision when they learn that a Model S Plaid is just as fast. Unrelated, but I also don't fully understand how Trickstuff can get away with such a slow new product cadence, unless the engineering team is actually helping with production, QC and assembly, which would be pretty wild (and pretty cool). I know brands with half the staff that refresh entire catalogues of complete bikes in different sizes and materials, with and without motors every three to four years.

[@jnxmck]

Being a small company is not a valid excuse for poor management, especially when their parts are able to be manufactured by CNC and could be created en masse in a very short period of time. Instead what Trickstuff are doing is creating artificial scarcity by not staying on top of stock numbers in order to make people think that they are worth paying 4x the price of any other brakes. You can see the amount of screenshotted comments just in this video that assume expensive = best. Trickling stock out is a great way of keeping that reputation, as if they released 10000 pairs and everyone who wanted/could afford them had a set, and in turo some of those people inevitably realised they're not worth the asking price so start selling them on pinkbike and ebay, all of a sudden Trickstuff find themselves in a situation where they're going to have a harder time selling their product for the asking price. You'll find a whole host of tiny companies (like bespoke frame builders who are often just one person) who are able to stay on top of lead times and customer satisfaction all while running the entire business themselves, from replying to initial emails to brazing the frame, painting and then shipping out to the customer. If a company who are from a country well known for their efficiency are unable to keep up with the demands of running a business, don't run a business.

[@CanonFirefly]

I would challenge that Trickstuff designed their brakes 'from scratch'. They have iterated on designs from other companies that have been making hydraulic brake systems for many years before them. Definitely some shady practices by Lewis though around making even a small run of components with Trickstuff trade marks on them, but I don't think they have taken any of Trickstuff sales.

[@MongoDan]

@@CanonFirefly This is a VERY common practice with developing items and you dont want people to know that it is something different or new, especially when your product looks similar to another. When doing this you obviously cannot sell that item and normally the the testers are required to return the product when the testing is done (in replacement the tester normally gets a production copy). I have actually been on the tester side for one of the major component manufactures in the past.

[@kai_v_k]

Especially since they didn't just copy (and improve?!) one of Trickstuff brakes but their whole line-up, but not another brand as of right now.. If they would have mixed and matched (the fins of the new brakes look like the new Shimano fins) there would have been some claim to innovation. The change of mineral oil (I doubt that it is as good as the Trickstuff Bionol, probably just cheaper) and longer lever is grasping at straws for innovation. The metal-ceramic piston combination however is an innovation -- I have no clue if it is better. The brake rotor is a punch disc, that is a different German manufacturer ;-).

[@icecreamo]

Sherlock Stone

[@sandy_knight]

Worth mentioning, Shimano also make fishing reels. If i ever feel the need to 'upgrade' my XT brakes I'll be going with Hope though, living in the UK you can get them a bit cheaper than the ROW.

[@DaleStone]

That was the first thing I mentioned in my Shimano review! Haha

[@eaze7324]

I'd love to buy Hopes too, but sadly DOT rules it out for me

[@sandy_knight]

@@eaze7324 Yeah, that's a fair point. Personally its not enough to completely rule them out but its definitely making the choice harder. If they were mineral I'd already have them 😉

[@MrSupermugen]

@@eaze7324 Why? to not use a set of Brakes because it uses DOT is dumb. Theres a guy on emtb forums who put dot in his Mavens and they Bleed waaaaaay easier, he said hes had no issues with seals. I've never had good luck with mineral oil brakes. they are often all over the place bite wise

[@pizzapie4me]

​@@eaze7324DOT vs mineral oil is largely overblown. The best brakes on the market are DOT (Hayes and Hope). Grab yourself a set. 😋

[@zobilamouche420]

I love it when KZbinrs do better journalism than real journalists, great job Dale ! 💪

[@DaleStone]

I appreciate that, but wish it didn't have to be this way sometimes! 🫠

[@mykhailyna1]

Your brake reviews have already been best on youtube, and you came out with a full investigation!!! Congrats!!! Keep going I love those. Most reviewers go by feel, you add a level of objectivity to it which is great Can't wait for new brake reviews and different components too!

[@dimimtb]

Gamer Nexus and Gerald Undone 😯, wasn't expecting to hear those names on a MTB site although GN do ride. Awesome work Dale as always. Detective Stone, Dale Stone.....

[@DaleStone]

Steve, if you're ever in the area I'll give you a tour of the goods! 🙂

[@dimimtb]

@@DaleStone @gamersnexus would be a cool to colab to see...

[@lastgentleman8099]

Great work putting in the time to give us the whole picture. I look forward to the review and comparison to the Trickstuff brakes.

[@SkaarjOrbb]

This has to be the most "KZbin-esque" mountain bike video ever. Excellent job, very informative.

[@DaleStone]

Definitely never seem a thumbnail like this one before... 😂

[@SkaarjOrbb]

@@DaleStone Oh yeah, I see it now. Nice one!

[@jester6578]

"Hang on..... was that intro a GN reference?" 90 seconds later.... 🤣

[@dirkmohrmann8960]

The quality of this video, the research behind it, and the way it is presented impartially, completely eclipses anything I've seen from any other "major" bike publication in recent memory.

[@DaleStone]

Thank you! 🫡

[@ubertalldude]

Not that I was in the market for new brakes anyways, but this steers me away from ever buying them. Basing a design off a competitor is one thing, manufacturing a direct copy is another

[@DaleStone]

The second generation has significant internal differences, but the first generation was pretty shameless for sure.

[@deantennantmtb]

Very impressed with your level of research, and integrity to the viewers by disclosing any conflicts of interest. Great video, keep up the good work 👊🏼

[@DaleStone]

Thanks Dean, that means a lot! 🤘

So... they didn't want to mix the fishing gear company with a bike parts company. I'm not sure if they've ever heard of a little brand, called Shimano :D

[@blklex250]

dude.. if only everyone did their homework before they start chirping like you.. good stuff

[@DaleStone]

Agreed! Haha, thank you.

[@jakebguth]

Great research and very interesting to hear about their history. I was on the wait list for some Trickstuff Picola HD brakes. Sick of waiting I ordered a set of Lewis LV4’s and was impressed with the quality and power of these brakes and cancelled the Trickstuff order and I’m looking to get a second set of LV4’s for my other bike.

[@ThunderStruckMTB]

Man, very well done. Impartial and factual, which are 2 things that just don't go together these days. Awesome video. 👍

[@DaleStone]

I appreciate it!

[@dkamish1258]

Thank you very much for spending so much time investigating and reporting this. I was curious about Lewis Brakes and you really provided the definitive background and research. I'm happy with my Hayes Dominion Brakes myself.

[@snaXaminator]

You had to work a few minutes(days) with this presentation of everything behind these brakes (and company). Thank you for doing that! Really enjoyed!

[@JohnGarlandTrialLawyer]

Great video. Love the in depth, impartial, and organized research.

[@BiecherBender]

Wtf since when do you have 300k subscribers. Like, spot on 300.000 That’s a huge number, congrats. Looking at your videos you definitely earned every single one and even a lot more more. Still im confused, I thought this was a small channel couple of weeks/months ago

[@DaleStone]

Shorts... 🚀📈🌚

[@BiecherBender]

@@DaleStone damn, well played. That’s really good news, more subscribers equals more reach and more interesting products to test. Which means I can look forward to more interesting reviews 😄

[@binshuo]

Man, this video is really entertaining and I appreciate/admire your efforts into investigative journalism. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be for an English speaker to collect the information from bilibili videos. I’m a native mandarin speaker and would like to offer you some assistance in translating Chinese to English in exchange for a cup of coffee. Great work. Hope your channel grows fast and get the exposure it deserves

[@MarshallWolf]

Wow, Epic video Dale! That was an insane amount of research presented in a really nice package. Interested to hear what you have to say about their on the bike performance

[@spacedoutboy404]

Incredible piece of journalism right here. Thank you. The quality is as high as a set of Trickstuff brakes. 👍👍👍

[@DaleStone]

It does appear to be, but more on that later! 🙂

[@spacedoutboy404]

@@DaleStone sorry, I should have phrased that better. I meant the quality of your work is as high as that of Trickstuff brakes.

[@GrigoryRechistov]

Industrial design (how things look) can be legally protected and disputed in court. Copycats can be then forced to cease selling rip-off products if the court determines so. I hope Trickstuff has bothered to create protection for their existing industrial designs; if not - though luck, think ahead next time. DT Swiss can certainly try to sue Lewis if they wish it. In any case, good luck suing them in China. But other markets are a different thing. The question remains: is it financially viable to even start the litigation?

[@DaleStone]

This is all true, and I wasn't able to find any proof of industrial design protection through my research. I suspect that DT Swiss will not peruse anything here, as you are right that it is likely prohibitively expensive.

[@DownHillgamer]

Yeah no copyright laws in China, big problem with tool companies like harbor freights icon like literally copying knipex and mainly snap on with design of all their sockets and hand tools, especially pliers. Can't do much about it, good for some people though, creates Internet talk for both brands good or bad

[@kr8490]

Quality journalistic video. Hats off to you and your research. Keep up the excellent work.

[@iffy_too4289]

Thank you for an awesome video. I've been eyeing off Lewis brakes for about a year now and got so far as emailing them with a view to purchasing from them. I've just been waiting for someone to do a proper YT review, to see if it's worthwhile upgrading from my SLX 4 pots that my bike came with.

[@braydenmac5872]

Love the video Dale. Been watching your riding videos for a while but I have to say you've quickly become one of the best reviewers on this website! Keep em coming!

[@DaleStone]

That's a lot to live up to haha, I will do my best! 🙌

[@zach.225]

Phenomenal video, I love the proper journalism in the industry, we really do need more of this. The research is awesome, the video is well organized and enjoyable to watch, and actually citing your sources is something many overlook. I hope this can push more reviewers in the outdoor market to do the same. You've gained yourself a subscriber.

[@DaleStone]

Thank you! Though don't expect the majority of my videos to be like this one, haha. 🙂

[@zach.225]

@DaleStone Yeah, I get that😅, you wouldn't have time for anything else, I can only imagine how long all the research too. Hopefully, others can follow in your footsteps and fill the void.

[@MisterCOM]

Its also specifically not uncommon for bicycle gear companies to make fishing stuff. I basically have a di2 fishing reel on my rod.

[@asyncsam7793]

Incredible research and reporting, Dale. Really appreciate your industry experience as well to dismiss notions that reverse engineering is uncommon. Please continue doing videos such as this, as you will find a wide range of R&D approaches, including actual patent infringement or IP theft in select cases.

[@DaleStone]

I'd love to, but I can't think of a brand that needs an explanation quite as badly as Lewis did haha.

[@olliekidner1295]

What a great video. Hats off to you for the thorough research. I’ve just got a set of Lewis LH4 brakes. So far they’re the best set of brakes I’ve bled (I work in a shop). There are several features like the Barb-less end of the hose at the calliper end, the sealed bleed funnel, clever bleed port placement and the extra heavy duty pad springs which also make these a pleasure to work on and live with. After a few short rides I can’t say how well they’ll last but initial impression are that these are the best set of brakes I’ve used. I previously had a set of hope tech4 e4 which were incredibly finnicky to set up. In comparison the Lewis’ are much simpler to bleed, set up and perform better.

[@robertocalvo934]

Never thought i would day this about a mtb brakes video but this was a great watch, fascinating stuff. Top notch journalism 🙌🙌🙌

[@ThugZ3r0]

Bro, you are doing such a great job with reviewing the products! That was incredibly interesting and useful!

[@bikecraftcr]

Based on my experience, they feel amazing. I replaced my TRP’s with the LHT and love the adjustable lever throw. Doesn’t hurt that the price is right too.

[@DaleStone]

They're definitely better than most expect. Full reviews of both the LH4 and LHT models soon!

[@logan-taylor]

this is fascinating... I've always been curious about this company, as they do tons of influencer marketing. Great in-depth look, thanks for the great journalism.

[@DaleStone]

You are welcome!

[@harv83]

Dale's completely right - vote with your dollar. If you want companies to thrive locally, companies that will support grassroots efforts to build the sport and the experience of mountain biking in your community, then it's up to you to support them. I know a good deal is sometimes hard to pass up on, but it's it really a deal if it ultimately compromises the thing you'd want to thrive?

[@DaleStone]

🎯

[@aaronoconnor606]

Trickstuff was bought out buy DT Swiss and they haven't made improvements in 5 or 6 years. I don't feel they are earning my money. I would much rather spend a responsible amount on a equally good product. Competition from other countries is good for the consumer. The whole MTB industry has gotten to expensive I'm happy we have companies like Lewis or YT around that can drive prices down to a reasonable amount.

[@BlacqueJacqueShellacque_]

Damn...that was a detailed video. Looking forward to the review of these. Especially any comparisons to the Trickstuff version. Hopefully you can comment on these and the Trickstuff vs. more common brakes like Shimano XT, and Sram Mavens.

[@DaleStone]

All of those videos will come in due time!

[@RiderP411]

Rightnow is the best time to make anything in China, the ease of finding supplier at any scale and quality is amazing. Friend of mine designed and made a coil lefty fork using grip2 damper, where else to find shops that willing to CNC or anodize ONE part at a resonable price🤣

[@DaleStone]

I have some questions for your friend 😂😂

[@RiderP411]

@@DaleStone Well if that's something piqued your interest I can dm you a BILIBILI link with some indepth look into this 2.8kg half fork, quite the improvement over the original ignoring the weight😆

[@bertrandolf9733]

Living right next to the Trickstuff facilities, unfortunately i can't afford their brake. Same for Intend, they're right down the street. And if i could, the bike would be even more in danger for missing parts or completely once. Tune is very close too. High density mtb innovation region here :D

[@DaleStone]

I love the boutique German MTB scene, would be awesome to make a bike with all of their parts!

[@bertrandolf9733]

@@DaleStone Thanks for the reply and the excellent video! Denk engineering around the corner too. Tbh the sprinkled Lh4 would complement my otherwise all black bike pretty well. Not too uncommon to meet TS staff rideouts in the wood, wonder how that might turn out You might consider to put bikefestival freiburg on to your schedule for april '25 - they'll all be around pretty sure. The website is easy to find (will be updated once we secure the date for '25). t's a more friendly and community atmosphere than most festivals. The trails are within a stones throw - black forest literally reaching right into the city. MTB club has ~3k members now (third largest in the city, we might not overtake the soccer club in the foreseeable future though). 😹 Cheers! :D

[@straubinio_styo7768]

The bikefestival Freiburg is definitely underrated and worth a trip, the density of companies in that region is ridiculous and the stands aswell as the group rideouts are awesome. Just make sure you don’t plan on riding after the festival finishes because the trails will look like they were used for a motocross championship.

[@sadphil01]

Bought some LV4 Lewis brakes & love em if only for the no olive & barb design! All brakes should be this style. They are phenomenal at stopping. Are they like trickstuff brakes in performance? Who knows I'm not paying stupid amounts of money for a brake. These do the job & tbh I'm not bothered what they look like as long as they work & work they do.

[@Lex-Rex]

Your journalistic chops are just as good as your riding.

[@DaleStone]

Hopefully that means that they will also improve with time! haha, thank you.

[@mcveyj]

Brilliantly researched and articulated video. Kudos!

[@seanm5058]

So glad to see you trying these. Kept seeing these brakes come up and they looked "good" but you are right, there was not a enough unbiased reviews anywhere to make a decision, and they definitely seemed too good to be true. Can't wait for your full review, and thanks for the video.

[@DaleStone]

You're welcome! 🫡

[@FunctionFIVE]

This is a video I knew I needed and I'm glad it's here, killer content as always!

[@DonnyRosko]

This was a cool video. I really like the format, you did a great job man!

[@thetechfromheaven]

They basically doing the same that Bolany and ZTTO have been doing with Fox and SRAM/Rockshox, but doing it better. The fishing company experience gives them good advantage just like Shimano, I would not be surprised if they become very mainstream soon.

[@RiderP411]

Those are more of Walmart bike performance.

[@ivansotof]

Impressive video, Dale. Great journalism.

[@livefreeandshred9818]

Wow. That was a deep dive. Very good work

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

The fishing gear has great reviews 😅 I run the LH4's on my jeckyll since about a year but I'm so sold I'll probably get another set for the trance x29... Btw for those who don't know Lewis has been selling high end affordable fishing gear for decades, their only American presence was a store on eBay, I contacted them to offer contact from distributors that might have been interested they replied they prefer to distribute themselves, which will complicate things a bit but I can assure you they are great people trying to legit sell good brakes 😁

[@chadbrochills]

Still loving my LHT’s! Great video.🤘🏼

[@TheVintageDownhillMounta-io8pp]

I can't imagine how long this video took to make. kudos.

[@roddas26]

That trail looks like so much fun.

[@-tr0n]

Well, that's a hell of a video essay. Appreciate the effort and I agree. It's ultimately a difference in culture. I would say "damn, this is the perfect brake. I have to make my improved copy visually different to make it my own". Chinese culture doesn't ultimately view copying as a mortal sin as long as the end result was worth it. You'll see it at schools and in business, it just is what it is. Depending on actual performance, they've taken the best in the world (perceived, at least) and improved performance, cost, weight, etc. From an engineering perspective that's great, and it's the ultimate goal of western engineering in established fields as well. They're just totally open about the process instead of hiding it. Hell, some of the best products I have are made by offshoot companies by original designers that felt their work needed more expansion or a shift in direction.

[@DaleStone]

Their honesty is super refreshing, my issue is that I'd have to speak Mandarin to see it. 🙂

[@-tr0n]

@@DaleStone Yeah, I don't honestly know if western markets were the ultimate goal! Chinese production is starting to target their own domestic market as their middle class skyrockets.

[@seankuusinen3499]

This is so good, can’t wait for the review of the new brakes

[@Bonky-wonky]

Great video, this is some proper journalism.. The question that has been in my mind since the PB review is at what point something can be considered a copy. This brake might *look* similar but internally there are so many differences that it’s not any more similar to the trickstuff than most other brands. Pretty pathetic how people slate a good product sold at a fair price, just because it looks like an existing product.

[@DaleStone]

There are definitely a number of fair criticisms to be had about Lewis and their products, but I agree that reducing it to "bad product cuz looks like a copy" is overly simplistic and often inaccurate. Hopefully they can pivot their unique design language and succeed with round 3!

[@St1gCom]

Why is it “pathetic” to diss a company for copying the aesthetics? We all know that aesthetics sell more products than basically any other factor. It is THE most important thing It might be the #1 factor for their potential success. We wouldn’t know one way or another but I don’t think it’s questionable they copied the looks at all. So that’s as bad as it can get.

[@justinh7099]

Thanks for doing this review! Been looking for details on this forever.

[@DaleStone]

The full review will be out within 3 weeks! Consider this the homework for it. 😵‍💫

[@cyclebuzztv]

Great video, they are hardly going to invent the wheel so their approach is understandable. I appreciate the effort they have gone through to produce a decent product although sharing a similar design brake lever might have not helped their cause but it might have got them some publicity. I look forward to seeing their brakes evolve and provide a quality product at a reasonable price. I for one am happy to support our British manufactured brakes by Hope, reasonably priced, a great product and good for our environment and economy.

[@DaleStone]

Very logical, and I agree!

[@stevenliggins1623]

About time someone did this video, well done and nicely presented.

[@DaleStone]

I agree haha, and thanks!

[@RockyPondProductions]

Obviously, Shimano makes fishing reels along with bike components. Shimano has a very specialized reel called the Calcutta Conquest BFS. This is a round baitcaster machined out of a solid block of aluminum. Longze has come out with a model that is very very similar. On top of this Longze also have developed their own computer controled electromagnetic braking system for their reel that is a play on Shimano's DC (digital chip) technology. The Longze product is considered very good when it comes to their fishing reels. Based on this it is obvious that Lewis / Longze are looking at the big players and taking cues. Shimano is obviously a major influence. I am always split on if this a good or bad thing. It has it's pluses and minuses for sure.

[@DaleStone]

That's super interesting. Thank you for the fishing reel context as I'm pretty lost when it comes to that industry. Sounds like it's pretty likely that they'll end up being successful in both industries. For all of Shimano's faults I would say the overall sentiment is quite positive, and it makes sense why they would choose to emulate their business model.

[@thetechfromheaven]

Shimano is also taking cues from the cheap brands with the Cues lineup of parts to compete with Ltwoo, Sensah and Microshift, and old school Shimano was a mass produced copy of Campagnolo stuff. It all comes a full circle.

[@WHTFSayonara]

You should do this same kind of video about the IIIPRO E4/IV4R/can't remember the name of the 3rd model and Hopes Tech 4 v4 etc brakes. They have been out for few years and have been branded to different names earlier. I would also like to see review of the IIIPRO E4 brakes! Just make sure you upgrade the brake pads for hope sintered pads. The organic pads that come with it aren't the best. The IIIPRO E4 brakes accepts all shimano hose parts. Some upgrade the bh59 inserts to bh90 to get snappier lever feel.

[@DaleStone]

I'd love to test out everything, but videos like these where I have to go in depth on a brand's history are quite time intensive. You never know though! 🤞

[@rcromehobbies9242]

Incredible Journalism Dale! Bravo!!

[@Trail_dogs]

As someone who keeps spare lever blades on hand I can not fathom spending $2k+ on a brake set.

[@DaleStone]

Spares are probably hand delivered at that price! [citation needed]

[@gandesc]

Hi, if comparing LH4 vs the Diretessima, maybe also consider testing with swapped pads & rotors ;)

[@DaleStone]

Definitely a consideration! 🫡

[@DirtlovR]

That's shady at best. I get reverse engineering and learning but this looks like walking the fine line of copyright infringement. From copying (and sending to people!!) someone's design and trademarks to making a product that most likely just different enough that the lawyers can't do anything about it. This is not how you create a new brand and it's a practice basically unique to China (wonder why...). In my opinion as a customer, ethic in business is important. I know it might sound ridiculous in current times of "money is king" but I'd rather pay more than support practices like this.

[@DaleStone]

I agree that there's no defending their industrial design decisions, and that voting with your dollar is a practice I actively encourage. But I would bet that per capita this practice is no more common in China than it is in other countries though, there are just more people!

[@DirtlovR]

@@DaleStone You're probably right but it seems to me that western world is a lot more strict and punishing that kind of behavior. I can't really think of any EU/NA brand that blatantly copied another brand and actually gained traction internationally while for China it seems like a normal and accepted business strategy. I don't know though, maybe I'm biased. Anyway, I forgot to say thank you and good work. I really appreciate this kind of thorough and analytical videos.

[@mechpade]

@@DirtlovR You should read about China's copycat culture. From what I understand, when a Chinese manufacturer copies another manufacturer, it is because they see a great product and would like to improve it or adapt it to local market. In a perfect world, companies are allowed to improve on another company's product openly without patent(?) infringement. I echo Dale's gripe with how Lewis rode on Trickstuff's marketing as a halo product with using their industrial design and patenting their improvements on an existing Trickstuff design without official collaboration.

[@DirtlovR]

@@mechpade That's great but it's still intellectual property theft and it's frown upon in all over the world for a good reason. You can't just say "it's a culture thing" like that's a get out of jail card. China copies another manufacturers because it's a lot quicker and cheaper than actually learning how to properly do stuff. That's their way of catching up with the west. In a perfect world people come up with their own design using all available resources. You don't take someone's entire product, tweak it enough so you can't be sued and sell it as yours. All that promotes is laziness because why bother making something when you can simply wait for someone else to do it and then modify it.

[@JockeSelin]

Superb stuff! Thank you! More of this kind of stuff, please. Looking forward to the review. 😎👍🏻

[@DK-wd8ju]

Awesome work! Interested to hear a ride review. Any chance you’ll review Hope Tech 4 v4’s?

[@DaleStone]

They're on the list but a handful of spaces down it, haha.

[@DK-wd8ju]

@@DaleStone unfortunate :( just replaced my trp’s with them. I think you’ll find they are what you wanted the Hayes to be but better QC

[@sprungmass]

Amazing investigative work 👏

[@alex_e_07]

Great video👌, when is the review coming out?

[@DaleStone]

Within 3 weeks of this one going live, so very soon... 👀

[@mellissanash7517]

Personally their 2-pot looks interesting to me as I was looking to get the Trickstuff Piccola for my rigid mtb build I'm doing,. Not enough people have the piccola on the used market to at least make the price a little easier to swallow, but the 2-pot versions of this could be easier on my purse.

[@alexdi1367]

Really, really well done, guy. Stellar, well-researched video. There's definitely a fashion component to cycling. Some people choose an expensive product precisely so others can see how much they spent. Form over function, provided they function well enough. Personally, I'm on team only-function. The name means nothing to me. If the product is good, the name will elevate of its own soon enough.

[@DaleStone]

I'd like to think I'm the same, but I also specifically seeked out this nebula colourway...

[@mengmao2332]

@15:55 -- that translation "makes its products revolve around this sexual service" comes from a misgrouping of words. It should say "makes its products revolve around and support this distinct personality."

[@DaleStone]

I figured it was something like that haha, thank you! 🙌

[@jamesjenkins8373]

Thank God they didn’t copy Code R brakes

[@DaleStone]

For the sake of the consumer, or their brand? 😆

[@Joeyczhu]

I just want to add that as myself is Chinese, there's this big misunderstanding from the west that chinese people aren't ashmed about making copies. Granted, some copies can be made almost as good as the original without breaking the bank, just look at those fake rolexes and omegas. But in the past decade there's really been what we call 民族企业, which means "the entrepreneurship of the people". These are the companies that are determined to break through that Chinese stereotype to make original, good products that chinese people can be proud of. Huawei is certainly doing that, so is DJI. Now I know nothing about Lewis brakes, maybe its all a facade and in the end they will cave in to cheap copies forever in order to keep the business afloat. but at 23:13, what the caption says is "Lewis, just take some more time in postprocessing, put more attention, make better seals, and increase the cost a little. Just so that you can be responsible for the riders. Because you're Chinese(again, entrepreneurship of the people thing)". That in itself, takes some guts to say

[@DaleStone]

I'm glad that there are companies trying to break the stereotype!

[@here-be-ember]

Beyond the Lewis and Trickstuff reviews, I'm really looking forward to your take on the new Gustav Pro, and especially how you score them compared to the Maven, since they seem to target a similar niche (ultimate power for heavy bike(r)s). There's been some mixed reactions from what I can tell, some retrogrouches demanding they bring back the original Gustav M instead. You made a passing comment about the "deck screws" Magura uses before, I'm sure we'll hear more of that :D

[@DaleStone]

Yes, deck screws... I'm keen to try a pair! Though when I asked around it seemed like they were many months out from being available in North America. Let's see what happens early next year... 🤞🏻

[@TheMTBRider96]

The Gustav are not marketed as "ultimate power"cause it's the same as the mt7, they just can handle heat and service intervals better with more oil and thicker rotors.

[@hwangsome]

I have the LH4s but I actually just recently went back to Codes that came on the bike. Power is great, minimal fade, good bite and lever feel is nice but I can never get them to not pump up. It's super annoying and on normal trails where I don't have to jab the brake repeatedly, they feel awesome because there is no chance for them to pump up. I'll just notice the bite point noticeably drifts outward when I jab them over and over again. I've tried bleeding with the funnel and the syringe and just ran out of ways to try to get rid of the problem.

[@DaleStone]

I've heard this before, and I believe Lewis recently updated their brake bleed tutorial videos to help with this issue. I've not personally experienced that issue after following their updated procedure.

[@hwangsome]

@@DaleStone I'll have to check it out then. I got them pretty early on so it's possible I was using the old method

[@fcbotieno]

Yes, do review their latest generation brakes when available!

[@finroddd]

congrats for the thorough research!

[@FOTB407]

I see Radic is on your radar👁️👁️ Would love a review on those! And 612 brakes!

[@DaleStone]

I would absolutely love to test out the Kahas and the cyberbrakes, but alas my budget is more in the Tektro range these days. 🙃

[@FOTB407]

@@DaleStone a man can dream. There’s a new TRP lever in the works tho

[@DJEpisteme]

Saw Cam Zink rocking them at Rampage

[@williamcho7780]

Very informative. Well done.

[@somhunt5446]

came for the usual insane riding, and stayed for the engineering masterclass.

[@maffin2917]

Due to the similar Indistrial design Lewis profited form trickstuffs Reputation. "its like trickstuff but cheaper and with more adjustability" people wouldnt compare those two this much when the lewis had a unique design. I think we would have an entirely different expectation of the brakes performance if it would look like a Hope oder Magura for example.

[@DaleStone]

Absolutely. There's a strong bias associated with looks alone.

[@gnar_tar]

**grabs popcorn**

[@Jereisalem]

What an amazing research! Thank you so much!

[@darrinkulyk9560]

Most Likely Will Be Buying A TI Set 😎

[@alextroche9453]

this was a yappathon- loved every sec. more like this

[@billydeewilliams8909]

Keep up the good work brother

[@DaleStone]

Thanks a ton for the support brother 🫡

[@burn31]

U.S. Lewis dealer here. Thanks for making this video. Although I knew a lot about their story, I did learn a lot of news facts. Being a retired engineer myself, you're right when you say reverse engineering is a big part that don't people realize. They did some things in the beginning I don't agree with but it seems they are on the right track now. I'm glad the new version is coming out though. They needed to make this amazing product their own. The new versions should help them out with that. They been exceptional with any concerns I brought to their attention and are quick to make adjustments. They are seriously in this for the long haul and I feel they will only improve the biking industry. I've had nothing but positive feedback on both the LH4 and LHT. I have a hard time keeping them in stock. I should have the new version on my website soon. You can find the link on some of the review videos I have on my channel.

[@tipfi92]

lewis is a great company. they have years of expierience in cnc. i love my lht brakes. feel power ease of maintainance. can everyone asure that they love these things

[@DaleStone]

They're definitely not for everyone, but they are better than most expect.

[@tipfi92]

yeah, they are on the same level as the big brands or better imo

[@clc1117]

Excellent video! Thank you

[@connorcampbell8431]

That must have taken a lot of energy to research! The one thing I am surprised you did not mention is that the Lewis 3rd generation brake (not out yet) and the Lewis E motorcycle brakes are direct copies of Shimano XTR and Saint Brakes with the Patented Pad Fins. (I am not a fan of Shimano brakes - I ride Hope brakes personally - I am just stating information)

[@DaleStone]

Do you have a source that outlines which patents they infringe upon? This would be a good addition to a follow-up video if so!

[@connorcampbell8431]

Surprised DT Swiss and Trickstuff have not sued Lewis yet. They definitely have enough money to sue them at over $1000 per brakeset.

[@DaleStone]

That implies that they may not have infringed on any patents, or that it may not be worth their time haha.

[@here-be-ember]

@@DaleStone I can honestly imagine they see Lewis as boosting their prestige. Lewis aren't cheap brakes either, so when the "budget" copy of your brake is still one of the more expensive offerings, it elevates the original even further.

[@AverageTom91]

Hi. I own Both. Maxima which are on my Specialized Enduro and the Lewis Ultimate on my YT Decoy. While being almost identical, They perform different. Both are powerfull, both offer ergonomic braking and with the lever design and how they sway, they are light to actuate and reduce arm pump drastically. The only major difference is bleeding and the bitepoint. TS was easy to bleed and the bite travel is precise and not too much Play. Lewis was a pain at First but I got the nack of it. I also swapped to hope steelflex brakelines. Works Perfect. The initial bitepoint is way to far in travel! If you want to have the almost same TS feel, you Need to turn the bitepoint all in. The Pads are sinter and Need to warm up before performing almost as good. TlDR, if you want to have a TS Like feel Braking, buy TS Maxima, if you want to save your creditscore and want almost the Same braking power and a Bit more colour to choose from, Go Lewis. Either way, you wont regret the purchase.

[@WHTFSayonara]

What did you do differently to bleed to properly? How did the changing of brake hose effect the brakes?

[@AverageTom91]

I normaly bleed via syringes on both ends. When I close up on the Caliper side, i press slightly on the syringe while closing the caliper. Helps keeping air out. After that i use a funnel on the lever and bleed the last bit air from the reservoir while using the lever and bringing the body in different angles. The steelflex expanse only once and slightly. After that it stays, keeping the bitepoint stable at any braking temperature. Ist did the Trick on my Hope V4‘S, and now my LHT.

[@DaleStone]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm excited to do the same and produce a comparison video soon enough! 🙂