The Truth is Out About Stan Lees Woke XMen and the Civil Rights Movement!

[@LiteratureDevil]

Check out the Waifu Handbook Discord to day for exclusive Playtest Material and 10% off your order for the first 1000 people: discord.gg/9h5AKNEae5

[@Greg501-]

I think more than just bias is that these people are here to give us their answers rather than questions. Sure, there will be "common sense" answers like "Hitler bad," but I feel like a lot of the classic comics like to make people wonder if what happens is for the best? The core difference in our prejudice and the prejudice against mutants in X-Men is that the mutants have powers, and could pose a threat to normal humanity, thus, neither side is blatantly wrong. But when you want to give answers you have to make something blatantly wrong that the average person would never choose, because they don't have sympathy for the disagreements inherit in political actions. People love a status quo, that doesn't make them stupid for not being one of the trailblazers of progressivism. That said, I can't believe some people are still trying to force us back to their past ideals, and they co-opted "woke" for it, what a waste of a perfectly fine definition. tl;dr, In 20 years, we'll be complaining about new things, "woke" is meaningless now, and just talk to people in real life, social media just wants to incite you.

[@ulty1472]

sexual immorality is bad repent

[@lonjohnson5161]

I hate being "that guy", but you should check the pronunciation of Menachem Begin. The correct pronunciation isn't obvious based on the spelling.

[@theprincipalofficer_1]

Kelly sue is iconic, Iconic for losing sales!

[@theprincipalofficer_1]

Fail Simone is iconic too. Iconic for… and talking rubbish about something that was not a thing fridging.

[@phantomstarlight1366]

A villain: "The world did me wrong, so I will lie, cheat, and steal to get what I deserve" A hero: "The world did me wrong, so I shall do right so others won't suffer as I have" However these "modern" writers are writing the "villain" version as heroic.

[@Launchpad05]

You either die A hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. - Harvey Dent.

[@VeryPeeved]

Well, lying at least is hardly unique to villains, to be fair. And cheating and stealing aren't entirely either. But it's a useful simplification, nonetheless.

[@phantomstarlight1366]

@@VeryPeevedThe point was the selfish motivation to wrong others. In the first example, they create more people like themselves, in the second, they prevent it.

[@ElAssoWipe-o]

Well leftists are liars after all.

[@chewxieyang4677]

It's hard to write a story about good vs evil, when the author themself either cannot make a distinction between the two, or personally identifies with evil.

[@vernonhampton5863]

I have stated on multiple occasions, and here's another one: "If you put Magneto and Malcolm X in the same room for 30 minutes. Brother Malcolm would call him a psychopath, and Magneto would call him a pussy." They are not the same.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Who said this?

[@TheRedHaze3]

@@naamadossantossilva4736 He did.

[@zeroxwarrior]

I mean op is not wrong stan lee made magneto a one dimensional mutant supremacist villain, boring and uninteresting. While Claremont made him not so one dimensional. But magneto always slides to a separatist to full blown supremacist and never really champion for integration outside of when prof x is out of the picture. Malcolm x wanted black people to take care and support themselves as white people weren’t going to. But magneto would be closer to marcus garvy and leave the usa to full blown let take over Alabama and form our own country. Like the comparison was never that good.

[@vernonhampton5863]

@zeroxwarrior Magneto is closer to Che Guevera than anyone else. Also, Stan Lee's Magneto was fine for what he was, a straight up villain. Think of all of the great villains, they were more menacing than relatable and that's just fine.

[@CMCAdvanced]

I know this to be true, but I hardly had the words for it before now

[@MagicIsaacSage]

Probably the most worrisome (and completely missing the point) phrase I have heard someone say was something along the lines of "But if villain bad, why they have the same trauma as me?" They were so close to getting it, but then used it as justification to be angry and villainous, and not realizing that it's what you do with that pain and the choices you make that make all the difference.

[@VunderGuy]

This comment needs to be upvoted way more than it is.

[@Aussieroth7]

@@VunderGuy Agreed.

[@EksaStelmere]

Stan Lee's Bill of Rights is so simple and beautiful that it's rather amusing how easily a lot of these modern crop managed to overlook and subvert it on their way to top of one of the world's tallest sinking ships.

[@bZman]

Stan was such an AMAZING dude. I met him back in 2012. Despite the massive line he would have spent all day talking to each and every single person there if the handlers didn't keep the line going. He genuinely loved and was knew everything about every Marvel character and was the sweetest guy in the world. Talking to him was like talking to your favorite grandpa and that is entirely reflected in his Marvel Bill of Rights. The only thing he cared about was making a product people loved and treating them the way they deserved to be treated so they would continue to enjoy the stories he helped create.

[@PumpkinSwag]

If Professor X was real, modern day activists would call him a Pick Me who has internalized mutantphobia.

[@omegaminoseer4539]

Oh, man. I never had to think about that as a possibility. That feels grimy because of how true it is.

[@Americanbadashh]

Depending on the writer in the comics, he sometimes is just that.

[@Launchpad05]

Kinda like calling A black man who hates Snoop Dogg an 'Uncle Tom'.

[@denkerbosu3551]

@@Americanbadashh and depending on them, he can just go "ehhh, f*ck it, Magneto was right"

[@Itsallover57]

and you two just showed why lore consistency is important.

[@Nemesis0921]

49:16 this is correct. The x-men aren't popular because of social issues it's the conflict. Humans fear mutants because some of them are dangerous and evil in fact most of the x-men's enemies are mutants themselves. What makes the conflict interesting is that the x-men simultaneously have to defend Humans from evil mutants and mutants from humans and everything else

[@ShadowWingTronix]

Like I said in the premiere chat, Stan Lee created superheroes and supervillains, not stand-ins for this or that worldview. Each member of the X-Men have their own viewpoint but could still be friends or at least teammates. Even the villains had different reasons for joining the Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants or any other group the X-Men fought. Even the anti-mutant crowd as threats took advantage of real world events to forge a threat for the heroes, not to push one ideology over another through stereotypes and forced allegory. They stood for outcasts in general trying to fit in, and I can relate to that in theory. The only X-Men I connected to was the Evolution TV series as I related to those events as someone outcast in high school but still had people on my side.

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

You could just as easily make an argument that the X-Men are an allegory for 2nd amendment rights. People will find whatever meaning they want to in stories, that doesn't mean it was the author's intent.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

​@@AkuTenshiiZeroBut people aren't born with guns, and not everybody is fit or responsible enough to own a gun now, isn't it?

[@Hello-bi1pm]

​@@DonVigaDeFierroin free America, people are born with guns 😂

[@russellharrell2747]

The X-men was originally conceived as a teen superhero team with the most generic origin possible: being born with super powers. But that’s not how they stayed, they became much more than just a gimmick Stan made up. The X-men have also been a product of their time, be it during the 60s counter culture and civil rights struggle, the 70s dissolution of authority and increasingly mature themes in comics, the 80s dark dystopias in the final years of the Cold War, to the EXTREME 90s and directionlessmess and complete corporatization of late 20th century pop culture, to the war on terror and fears of government overreach in the new millennium, to the increasing acceptance of marginalized groups and the pushback to that acceptance, to the complete fracturing and polarization of the US and pop culture fandom and now to today….post pandemic, current high inflation, high dissatisfaction and high sensitivity while ignoring the actual important issues of the day that may lead to Armageddon. Cheers!

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

Glad to have people proving these usual lies wrong. Because the people using it take advantage of people not knowing the full details.

[@davidrichardson1636]

Kelly Sue Deconnick told the audience, "If you don't like my politics, don't buy my book." Four years later, she confessed that she was worried that the public had actually taken her advice and stopped buying her book and other SJW comic books. Instead of saying, "Problem solved," as she commented previously, she lamented despairingly that comic book stores were closing. But why? She did not make the connection that she, along with other woke comic book writers, had flooded these stores with issues that no one wanted to buy. So, the second clip shows her complaining that customers took her advice. The video of this lament is also on KZbin. The juxtaposition of the two clips is simply delicious. Pushing woke politics in people's faces and then challenging them not to buy her product did not turn out to be the best business plan for her.

[@nadrewod999]

I personally never cared about Stan Lee's politics precisely because he was great at his job (making comic books) and because he never tried to preach his politics to me. At most, his stories would present a dilemma or some in-universe controversial event, cover the issue from all perspectives as much as feasibly possible, and deal with it going forward. For example, with the medicine that disabled the mutant gene, it could be viewed as an anti-mutant weapon for those with precise control over their powers like Magneto, Juggernaut, Jean Grey, and Wolverine, but for those who have been cursed with powers they can't control like Angel, Beast, Nightcrawler, Cyclops, and Rogue, it was a legitimate cure which offered them the chance to live a NORMAL life, at the small cost of losing their unique supernatural powers.

[@markuhler2664]

The Wolverine story about the kid whose power was to kill everyone within a certain diameter of a few miles I think it was. Only Wolverine could approach him because of his healing factor. The story plays out as the two have a beer as two men before Wolverine has to end him. The guy understands, and wants that. If Wolverine could offer the treatment to turn off his mutant power, do you think he'd take it? That would be nice, but the story would suck. The tragedy as written is a powerful story. Now imagine it in the hands of the crop of writers.

[@riotkitty]

Magneto is a classic villain trope to where he became what he hated the most, and is so blinded by his hatred he couldn’t see that. That is not Malcolm X nor is somehow twisted to mean Magneto is right.

[@matthewwriter9539]

Speaking as a poor, autistic, white, straight, male, and as a United States Army veteran...I have never once "been handed power". I have been given $#!t my entire life.

[@datboy1628]

Now imagine if u weren't white

[@astonmikedelgado]

Thank you for your service. Soon enough the woke grifters will be out of jobs and out of our faces.

[@PeterParker-ff7ub]

Im sorry people have done that and know how it feels in a completely different version

[@datboy1628]

Imagine now if u were black

[@MajorSmurf]

This is why I think so many of us who care about stories take a very Tolkien stance on the subject. Everything within a story should NOT be forced by the writer to be an allegory for anything. Tolkien wrote his work in a way where he did input his own beliefs and morals into it as to be invested in a story a writer needs to explore some aspect of humanity which can include things of a political nature. You will not find HOWEVER find any of what would have been his current day politics within LOTR. Any Winston Churchill stand-in? The bad moustache man? Any bashing of the labour party? Yes a story can have politics in it HOWEVER it's that's world politics. You can do a story that explores anything but the important thing is that the story can't just be screeching that something is problem because your opinion is that it is a problem. It has to be subtle and intertwined with interesting characters and story to follow read along with.

[@GrokeytheHunter]

Yo I was listening to the one about nature girl and I was so invested, like "This is such a great villain origin, I can't wait for her to learn about her evils." Only to never get that and I was very befuddled

[@louisduarte8763]

It was plainly obvious she was evil by the time she started looking like Hela.

[@freshoffthehook904]

Comics may have always been political but that was never the only thing they were.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Exactly. And Stan Lee's use of universal truth rather than just promoting his personal politics was key to the superhero genre and what made it so lovable.

[@rsync9490]

No lady was right, just not in the way she believes and ironically literature devil's video explains it pretty well. Comics always had politics but they were commentary that asked the reader to think. Her politics are preachy and secretly villainous.

[@ulty1472]

@@rsync9490 mhm

[@bad-people6510]

The last time they were close to this bad was the Reagan era and believe me those comic sucked too.

[@Kattlarv]

One big part I do like to note on that: Take the example of nature girl. WHO are she attacking? The suits responsible? No? Ah yes, it was the peasants. Squabble between each other! Leave the elite out of this! We even had similar back in BTAS. They could *not* show the government or the corporations as "bad". Nor ever be held responsible for their actions.

[@mistawilson6990]

Wow! She-hulk, a lawyer, doesn't belive in the legal system?! Wow! Just wow!

[@SuperLuis225]

@mistawilson6990 Its hilarious that the context is so flawed too. Daredevil is a christian lawyer. But the context is that daredevil is an alternate persona to absolve his sins for beating up criminals and to take the blame for breaking the law in a corrupt society. She hulk on the other hand... was an a55hole just because. As a result, how on earth does she still find work as a lawyer? 😂

[@marley7868]

@@SuperLuis225 yeah her assaulting that car is like the movie daredevill killing a guy for winning a court case he was in

[@apollolux]

That ending hurts. Modern Marvel disappoints on pretty much every item in that Marvel Bill of Rights.

[@madlaboratorian8696]

15:42 That Riri scene is oddly meta. Usually the writers just have the character be oppressed; but Riri's complaining that the teacher is supportive.

[@draykohunter6805]

When I first saw those panels, I was dumbfounded.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

She quotes Sally Ride about how people told her no and she was determined to prove them wrong. Methinks Riri did not understand the message. Or Bendis didn't when crafting her backstory.

[@draketheduelist]

Back when JustSomeGuy still had a clear head on his shoulders, he did a hilarious take on that scene, with Riri repeatedly dropping hard n-bombs and accusing the teacher of _thinking_ about the word when the teacher didn't take the bait.

[@ReaderViaNil]

because riri is not written by writters, but by activists that have a deeply warped view of reality where they can't distinguish real oppression from the illussion of woke oppression,.

[@mray4784]

@@draketheduelist The downfall of JustSomeGuy is really sad.

[@hitmanmonaghan6633]

“Men are so scary!” Also….. “Open boarders! No one is illegal!”

[@ReaderViaNil]

The real problem is not comics being political or not, its people FORGETTING TO USE WORDS CORRECTLY. It's not entirely the leftists fault, more a product of the times. But imagine how easy this whole thing would be to sort if we used the correct terms like "political propaganda" instead of just the generic, unhelpful term "politics". Yes, politics have always been in comics, but as part of a story, not as blatant propaganda. Activism was an isolated, often depised, political badgering activity, now it's a rotten part of everyday discourse, mudding any converstaion anyone wants to have. Mass media allowed the people who shout all the time to shout more and to more people, and that makes normal speech become invisible.

[@BladeSerph]

Exactly, when context is mangled, anything turns into a problem. Which then leads to people hating what the context originated from because you have a bunch of groups shoving thar Roosters and Cats in the pie we call good fking content, that it turns the pie into a rancid mess that mutilated any flavor it had originally. Politics can be turned into something interesting, but there`s a difference between butchering the lore of a story and then there`s Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance who can take political involvement in a story and make it fking amazing without even having to understand the crap or even have to have most of the damn story caked up with explainations to `attempt` to brainwash you into following along. If the `explaination medium` can`t bloody make the material engaging, then its just straight up the difference gap you could get with someone trying to make paint drying on a wall a `political thing` and then you have someone like Yoko Taro or Hideo Kojima who could take that same paint drying on a wall and make it so bat-shite insane, despite its still paint drying on the wall still. Like comparing the drying of the paint on a wall to be the setting in of layers to cover up the cracks and damages under`neath with any large globs of it being excess that leads to lasting consequences like bubbles of paint that has to be `brushed down` to evenly smooth it out and any paint that drips and slides down leads to similar streaks of un-even`ness, just like with businesses that pull highly irrational practices that could damage other involved companies (such as thar reputation) or other people involved all because they are hyper fixated on short term gains such as `quickly getting the paint to cover up problems`, even while they ignore the flies, nails and tape still present and just cover it up and leave nasty protrustions that will need to be ripped out and repainted over and likely result in a entirely un-even layer as a result. But anyway moral of the story: Boot to the heads for all the Sociopathic lunatics who ruin anything they are involved in and maybe have proper basic communication enforced in early education so people remember common sense is also mandatory in businesses, such as NOT sabotage entire business structures for terrible `practices`, since having a bunch of people think they are on some Holier then all that stands above the Heavens Crusade at the helm of things like politics was never a good idea. Especially when the only damn reason these kind of things work is because they been exploiting other companies that give out `free money` to follow so-called practices that harm the product more then promote any form of so-called `healthy censorship` they wanna brag about is so important.

[@kyriss12]

Even then for every issue of X-men that dealt with human/mutant relations you had five where they went into space with the star jammers to overthrow or aid the Shi’ar depending on who was in charge that week, or rode dinosaurs into battle against evil sorcerers in the savage lands. Because even when told through allegory as part of a story people need the occasional break from reality to decompress. I’m convinced that’s why radicals of any sort are so messed up in the head. They’re on course 100% and have long forgotten to take break and enjoy the silliness every now and then.

[@ryszakowy]

when superman flies supplies to marines on okinawa i have no problem with that when some third rate woke snowflake stop entire action to tell me that personal carbon footprint is killing planet and i need to get rid of my car i have a problem with that

[@thesarcasticmagician9092]

As always when it comes to a question of what changed, the content or the audience, the answer is Both.

[@abrahambobst4602]

I don't think the audience really changed, it's just that hackivists were allowed into the comics industry where they don't belong.

[@thesarcasticmagician9092]

@abrahambobst4602 As much as the existence of Grifters (and hacktivists) has grown in recent years, the audience always changes. The main two examples would be A) People who become one of the audience in their childhood who then grow up , and B) Someone becoming one of the audience years after it existence/started. Quite simply, it's impossible for anyone/anything's audience NOT to change. That's why content changes, because if it was a stagnant pool, your audience would lose interest.

[@JoRoq1]

"X-Men was always woke" goes along with the claim "Star Trek was always woke". They confuse classical liberalism (the rights and freedoms of the individual) with modern progressive "liberalism" (the identity and power of the collective).

[@RachelNichols-writer]

Justice, basic human rights and dignity versus resentment, spite, and envy.

[@rayvenkman2087]

This.

[@AndarilhoMarco]

It is wrong to call them progressive liberalism. They are marxists, which makes them anti-liberalism by definition.

[@zerg0s]

…but Star Trek is literally communism. The whole shebang. DEI Bridge Crew, no money, free health care, the government just gives you what you need to live. Star Trek has always been extremely woke, if you think communism is woke, it’s just that it didn’t matter to most of the stories they told.

[@zerop4110]

Thank you!

[@LeeCarlson]

Those of us who remember when Captain America confronted the fact that America no longer upheld the values he fought for, so he threw down his shield and became Nomad.

[@dbsommers1]

No. The far better scene they pretend never existed was the one where he protected some neo-Nazi at a speech from a crowd because while he disagreed with him vehemently,, his right to freedom of speech allowed him to spew that hate. Because silencing those because you disagree with them was the truly dangerous path. Now the writers had him attack some randos at a bar because he overheard them using a word he didn't like.

[@ryanrodriguez7664]

​@@dbsommers1"I don't like what you said, but I will fight to the death to allow you to say it."(horrible paraphrase)

[@tommyfishhouse8050]

James Lindsay in a video essay compares modern day social justice thought to a cult of christian heresy called 'gnosticism'. And there's a lot of nuance to it he points out in his essays, but basically the religion is. "I am really God, and all of reality and the people in it are good for is keeping me from realizing I am God and becoming God." When he started to describe it that way. It really started to click for me why these people behave this way. Why they don't have any regard for the fans. Why they seem to treat anyone who thinks differently from them as not just misguided but as evil. Because Gnosticism is effectively a religion not about accepting reality as it is, but about defying reality to recreate it in your own image. Suddenly their disregard for canon, their obsession with 'my truth', and obsessive vanity makes perfect sense.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Any political side can be guilty of what woke is doing now. It just so happened the far left has taken control this time around.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

@@LiteratureDevil Before it was the right, between the Hays Code and McCarthyism. Now the left owns a lot of the corporate entertainment industry because the doors of not caring about the source material were already blown open so they could work their way in.

[@robertlewis6915]

@@LiteratureDevil Any political group can take the 'I am god' position, explicitly or implicitly, to be fair. 'Fuhrer' was, if I am remembering rightly, a term generally used for God the Father in German.

[@JamesBartlett-u2o]

Sorry, but neither James Lindsey or you know a damn thing about gnostic Christianity. He’s pretty smart when it comes to Marxism but his understanding of Gnosticism is extremely limited and based on misconceptions. Blaming this on Gnosticism is akin to blaming christianity for Satanism. The gospel of Thomas doesn’t translate into woke nonsense or does any of the other so called Gnostic scriptures. Sure, It can be twisted into your ignorant understanding but if you are looking for a scapegoat it is my belief that protestant Christianity is your bogey man. Don’t take my word for it. Read the ancient texts for yourself. You will quickly find the first version of Christianity was far more closely related to Gnosticism than catholicism

[@andrehashimoto8056]

To me: Both in the Political and Economic Spectrums, the Left tends to have this trait the OP commented as a MUST. Because both the core and several things that branch from said Core go Totally Against things that are HOW THINGS NATURALY GO AND RUN in the world, Society, People in general. So the only solution truly is to DENY REALITY AS IT IS, FORCE YOUR VIEW OF IT TO BE "THE TRUTH". The Right Economically is 100% Opposed to it, the Political right enters horseshoe theory levels of being the same thing at its extreme, Deny reality, force your view of it as what reality is. So there's some differences in that aspect. One Political part of the spectrum can only make itself work by either parasitism or seizing full control and twisting people's will and view of reality to conform with the one and only approved view of it. The other only comes to it once the Religious Zealotry that is the Far right is the one in power.

[@GeneralTantzu]

This puts into words why I feel so repulsed by the woke "heroes".

[@LiteratureDevil]

Modern heroes are mainly just selfish villains but painted as heroes. As Plinkett said, it's something most might not notice - but their brains do.

[@maskeddog2077]

Dude, this is your best video yet! I'm gonna be linking this everywhere! That part about "the world outside your window" actually meaning a universal truth gave me chills.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Awesome! I'm really glad you enjoyed it!

[@jeviosoorishas181]

People have always complained about politics in comics and in other artforms...but it's generally not about the politics itself, but the execution. The execution of politics in the Clone Wars series was far superior to that in the prequels, had there not been complaints, Lucas and his team wouldn't have stepped up and improved. The problem with "wokeness" is that it simply disqualifies people from being able to criticize others, unless they're of a lower status in the "progressive stack." If you're a black male, you can't criticize the work of a an LGBTQ Hispanic female. If you're a white guy...you can't criticize anyone. And because there's no criticism, there's no improvement, and the quality of the work just gets worse and worse, while destroying the legacy of IPs in the process.

[@ba6703]

I just read all of the comics of Ms. Marvel losing her powers to Rogue and becoming Binary, and she wasn't a feminist, just a character going through different experiences.

[@TyronMakeka]

Where does the line between social justice and social spite go? When spite is not guided by principles and integrity, it devolves into mindless hate.

[@SuperLuis225]

Sjw: um stan lee himself would agree with the way marvel is going! Its always been about the politics: LD: #presents stans own 10 rules for writing a marvel comic book

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

It's not that it's political at all, it's that the politics the writers actually have are genuinely evil now. So they end up writing villainous stories, which for superhero books, is inappropriate to say the least.

[@ShrimpOfDeath]

>Parties formed out of love >Shows a party from "Goblin Slayer" The love for killing goblins

[@LordTyph]

Well, they do say love comes in many forms.

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

​@@LordTyph "You get used to it." 😂

[@josephmath1]

When talking about x-men, i love the movies way of how professor x and magneto reacted to each other, they hated each other, but still respected each other, and magneto's words about professor x's death says it all, "quite, he has done more for mutant kind then you will ever understand"

[@ShadowWingTronix]

If comics were always the way DeConnick depicts them, then they wouldn't be as popular as they were before her crowd changed the stories. For evidence: the poor way they're selling now and how former fans trash what's currently being made. Bruce Banner was raised by an abusive father who killed his mother, if the Universal movie is still MCU Hulk's backstory. He was chased by his girlfriend's father and romantic rival because of the Hulk and it led to ending his relationship with Betty Ross. Then after being on the run he finally finds acceptance and a chance to love again only for Black Widow to sacrifice herself because of her own character arc to save the universe. I think that's slightly worse than some drunken idiot with too many hormones catcalling her or some jerk at work who wants to get ahead talking over her. Bruce also blames himself for her situation and is trying to help her avoid what he went through as the Hulk and she should at least acknowledge that. If she does it hasn't been in any clip I've seen. He wouldn't turn around and give some other lady Hulk powers because she wants to smash stuff like "men" do, ignoring Hulk's whole comic history. I've worked in a grocery store so knowing this is how the writer sees me is not going to win me over. This is how the writer decided to represent me. Also...how does a shopping bag from LAS VEGAS, NEVADA (I think that's where the story took place) end up in the waters of Krakoa in the Pacific Ocean? This doesn't cross her mind? Could the bag have led to shipwrecked people who didn't even know the bag floated up from the wreck of their boat after going shopping while on vacation in Vegas? There is no thought in this story at all and it wants me personally dead. Not a fan.

[@LegacyComics100]

The thing with how Jenifer originally became She-Hulk, is because she was on the verge of death after being left for death by her mother’s killers that pinned Bruce in a disparate situation while being hunted but the authorities to give her a blood transfusion in order for her cousin to survive. Bruce afterwards when he heard the news Jen had became She-Hulk he was mortified, ashamed and guilty of himself for causing this to her. However, Jenifer informed Bruce that she actually likes being She-Hulk, she considers it her true self and she adores and empathizes with Bruce over the exchange to soon move on as her own woman taking on a lawyer career and being a part of superhero teams such as the Fantastic Four to fill in for Thing and the Avengers for years. Now she berates Banner, to the point of despising him altogether, it’s so stupid they want to make it that she had it the worse for existing as a woman, when the point of her character is that she actually had it easier than Bruce did!

[@ShadowWingTronix]

@@LegacyComics100 The Disney+ version of Jennifer just found it annoying until she was force to acknowledge she even was She-Hulk. The transfusion was an accident, a few drops of blood transferred when they were in an accident because unlike the comic and previous cartoon appearances, the writers didn't want a "MAN!!!!!" responsible for her powers. Comic Jen was kind of a wallflower until she gained strength and beauty, and became more confident. That's why she embraced She-Hulk. While Bruce's origin is bathed in death and suffering, Jennifer's is based on life and overcoming in the comics. MCU Jen is just based on frustration and quirky arrogance.

[@rsync9490]

Plant girl would have been in the brotherhood of mutants in the 70s and got her butt kicked by the xmen.

[@jonathanathor117]

I know the Incredible hulk has some flaws but I still think it's a good movie for what it was. I mean the deleted scenes from the movie were genuinely really good. I wished the movie had came out in 2010 though so they can add some of deleted scenes.

[@kyriss12]

@@rsync9490 Nah she would have been with the marauders. The brotherhood might have been a bunch of racist terrorists, but they still had standards.

[@josesosa3337]

Great video. I don't remember where I got this from but i heard that X-men was actually inspired by the holocaust, Isreal, and Palestine. Also, modern artists forget this detail or they don't care, but the difference between Xavier and Magneto is that for the xmen, you're a hero before your a mutant, while with Magneto, you're a mutant first. This is what seperates the good mutants, and the evil ones who want to oppress or destroy their fellow man. Xmen is about fear of our fellow man. Not mlk, malcom x, or black people.

[@Zerag0nPhoenix]

Stan Lee is the real hero, even years after his death his words and stories still manages to surprise and inspire me to be a good person ;-;

[@snackplissken8192]

An excellent set of points. I think it's particularly effective to point out that the power hungry characters who saw themselves as victims were always the villains, whereas the heroes had to learn that power comes with responsibility, including the moral responsibility of heroism itself. That modern Marvel is willing to create obvious villains and deem them heroes because they are doing evil to "evil" people show that their leadership lacks even the self-awareness of antiheroes like the Punisher, whose conflict was that his unheroic methods were turning him into a villain, which is clearly a bad thing.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

Now I know what they identify so much with villains and want to drag the heroes down. They are utterly incapable of comprehending selflessness, but want to benefit from the selflessness of other people.

And this is why Anime and Manga are taking over that slot in the market, because they still do classic heroes and stories. No matter what you think of My Hero Academia or the fandom, the manga/anime keeps reinforcing the core of what a hero is, someone who will do right no matter what, who will sacrifice if it means saving others and NOT for any gain, just to save people.

[@arkwhite23]

I didn't realize I was using Stan Lee's own philosophy in my own writing. Great video as all ways. Writing hero's as villain's with political bias. Makes a lot of sense when you look at the current state of story craft within the western world.

[@bendu8282]

Yep 🔥

[@The_New_King_of_America]

This reminds me of ShortFatOtaku's video on media literacy, where he explains that you can apply any kind of political meaning to any story depanding on you political lens. He called it "the fine art of bullshit"

[@bendu8282]

😂😂😂 exactly

[@VideoQuestEx]

Thank you for all of the research done in this video. I had no idea that "The Marvel Readers' Bill of Rights" at (1:05:47) ever existed, until now. This is very good to know.

[@aeh968]

I like modern comics. I get to see characters in new adventures, interact with new heroes, and face new problems and challenges. I think heroes should adapt and change to acknowledge and fight the social injustices of a period. Books like Superman Smashes the Klan and Uncanny Avengers Issue 3 show characters taking a stand when others are too afraid or unwilling to. From an alien immigrant from another world to a group of outcasts who will defend those who once hunted them down, comics may be idealistic and political nowadays, but they always inspired others to take action for what was right.

[@riotkitty]

…Wouldn’t the fault be on whoever littered there instead of the store itself? They just provide the bags for people to put stuff in them, not control what their customers do with the bags

[@LiteratureDevil]

You would think so lol

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

Common case of blaming the guns, not the shooter... Except it's not a gun... it's a literal plastic bag...

[@jeremyrichard2722]

I think the best way to summarize the situation would be that while comics were always left leaning, they were left leaning in a sane way, and people are talking leftism in insane directions so now the old "progressives" are seen the same as the conservatives were. The original, sane, leftists, are turning on comics due to the ridiculousness. See there is nothing wrong with black characters, women, sexual minorities, and other things and that has all been there to some extent from the beginning BUT it's the extent to which it's taken, the replacement, the tearing down of general society, and so on. That's where the problem is. It's that activists always need a battle to fight, when the reasonable ones are won, they create unreasonable ones, and comic fans do not like them using comics as a platform for unreasonable positions. Trying to argue that something was always leftist or always used for activism always has to be tempered by how far it's gone and the sanity of the message. Oh sure to true believers the message is always sane and reasonable, but those people need to gain the perspective that when there is blowback like this they have stepped over the edge, rather than dancing on it. Of course to the insane activist they justify it by claiming there was blowback against the reasonable stuff to, and don't seem to ever realize when or where that line was crossed, perhaps in some cases believing there is no line as it's existential social warfare. To put it in one final perspective, in the old days when those "original activist stories" were told there was both public funding of mental health, and everyone doing printing, including self-publishing houses, generally had policies against "crackpotism". Simply put had someone brought these stories before someone like Marvel, DC, or any one of the fanzines dealing with the older fandoms being corrupted now, they would not have been published due to the insanity involved. Part of the problem is that with the lack of mental health funding, such people have started to corrupt and use systems and so on, as there is no safeguard against them in a system designed to use the standard of "reasonable people" as the law says. An unforseen result of cutting such funding. If half the stuff suggested today was submitted to most of the 60s and 70s activists who did this stuff and became popular for it, not only would they have refused to give it a platform, there is a reasonable chance they would tip off the men in white coats to come knocking on doors. A piece of history a lot of people seem to forget. Reagan wanted to cut costs so defunded that in the 80s, thinking letting the nutters run free would do minimal damage compared to the money that could be saved. Well guess what, he's wrong, instead we have a world where people are denying the very existence of gender and publishers are afraid to say no to them.

[@taragnor]

It's just bad writing that's the problem. Comics were always left-leaning, just with better writing. Poor writers tend to write Mary Sues, vapid power fantasies, unlikable characters, soapbox preachy dialogue and so forth. Any good writer can get you to agree with their politics at least on that specific issue in their fictional world. A lot of modern writers fail miserably at that. The "woke" push for corporations is entirely marketing spin. "We want to promote diversity and inclusion in our staff" sounds a lot better than "We pay our writers shit and hired people desperate enough to take the job because we want to increase our profit margins by cutting costs on workers and seeing what the cheapest viable product is."

[@jeremyrichard2722]

@@taragnor I think bad writing is part of the problem, but the thing is it's actually the smaller part of the problem. A lot of badly written things have been incredibly successful and popular with good ideas and concepts or even proper messaging. Harry Potter for example is not exactly a literary marvel, no offense to JK Rowling. Her ideas though were top notch and the messages in the story resonated with everyone. The problem is you could have the second coming of "The Bard" himself and not sell this stuff. If William Shakespeare himself was challenged to sit down and sell some of these messages about gender not exist, or how there is all this bigotry and crap that doesn't actually exist because activists need to pretend it exists to justify himself, he's not going to be able to pull it off. The problem is that a modern entertainment industry is working with the media to claim there are all these racists running rampant, with cops being incredibly bigoted on average and all kinds of other things. In the meantime when people look outside they don't see that, but they do see them attacking those allegedly bigoted police offices, and the result is the mass looting of stores and an upswing of violent crime, especially in the ethnic communities that should have been revealed to have been a bunch of peaceful hippies the whole time So basically while they are portraying the heroes as the people who support this, and have them beating up straight white villains and all the white heroes being kind of naive idiots at best, in the real world people are beginning to again sort of understand the 1930s world view that spawned characters like Batman in an era when organized crime ran the streets and the police were rendered powerless to do anything. As stores are being looted people sort of get the idea of why having Batman pull up in "The Bat Mobile" and start tearing up gangs of looters, leaving them hanging from lamp posts or whatever, or why a later character like "The Punisher" going into an area known for violent crime in his "War Wagon" and shooting gang members and other violent criminals with the same abandon they target other people might have appeal. Rather, you have the comics telling you these heroes are wrong and a "public menace" not all that different from what happens when a corrupt politician or mind control villain takes over. Sadly though we don't actually have super heroes in real life, though to be fair, it wouldn't shock me if people start trying it for real soon as like many origin stories the police and politicians are providing themselves unable to deal with the problem or even want to admit it exists. I'm getting too long and tangential, but the point is, you can't sell this insanity with even the best writing. That's why it will never work, because while these works are fantasy they still have to be somewhat grounded especially when the point is to address some "real issue". You lose the audience when that "real issue" doesn't exist, and the people who genuinely believe it does are pretty much insane. You can take that away from racial politics and insert most things pushed under the woke umbrella into the same example. I kind of wish people still read nowadays (other than short comments) as I feel these are things that really need to be considered, and the points just don't work in short form. Until the whole problem is acknoledged and this part is also confronted more directly (instead of people talking around it) we will never see a solution. When mainstream entertainment is being written by a bunch of insane pariahs, it's never going to be successful, as the only audience will be people like them, and even if some of them do have money, there aren't enough of them to make it profitable. The stuff these people write belongs in like fringe, arthouse press, I have no problem with stuff like this existing. That said it's not mainstream, nor is it a reflection of any reality at all. Even if some of it was based on real experience as claimed, they are fringe events, and not something the audience is going to accept as normal because it is not. They need good writing, and sane messaging, and that message can be very left wing as we've seen, without going into madhouse territory. They need actual, normal,. left wingers to write this if they want it. Not extremists with an axe to grind who have no talent on top of it.

[@taragnor]

@@jeremyrichard2722 Good writers can sell anything honestly. When you're writing a fictional story, you control the entire world, so it's relatively easy (if you're at all talented), to frame things however you want. Cops can be brave heroes protecting the people or they can be corrupt, racist and generally horrible. Depends on how you portray them in your story. A vigilante like The Punisher o r Batman could be a hero doing what the cops can't do, or he could be a dangerous maniac who acts as judge, jury and executioner. The funny thing is that it probably doesn't matter what your biases towards real-world vigilantes and police officers, based off what how the author portrays it, you will generally accept that the hero's point of view is correct, at least within the realm of the real world. This is largely because you can highlight the good parts of your protagonist and downplay the bad. The Punisher kills the criminals and we see how a dangerous city becomes safe, he's the hero. The Punisher kills some criminals but many innocents are killed in the process and it only amps up the chaos and murder in the city. We in turn see the Punisher as a villain. This further can be reinforced by showing how bad the criminals he's killing are. Make them really evil. Harassing old ladies, murdering children. Makes the audience hate the criminals and show us how the police do nothing. We will all want to see Punisher put a bullet in their heads. Whatever your angle, whether you want to push xenophobia, feminism, gun control or antisemitism, if you're a good writer you can set the story up such that your story supports that position as correct. A bad writer tries to send a message and the audience turns against them, because they did such a poor job selling it, they come off as the unreasonable one.

[@viperstriker4728]

Left and right are not good categories. WW2 Germany was a socialist state (national socialism to be specific) yet is called right wing. The abolishes of slaves was done by republicans yet that is called left wing. Trump has voted democrat all his life and was endorsed by a founding member of the black panthers., yet somehow is his right wing. Who decides what is left and what is right? The issue with comics right now is that they are run by marxists.

[@AndarilhoMarco]

Stop saying "get your politics out of comics" and start saying "get your proselytism out of comics".

[@UndeadNerdT800]

We might as well start.

[@jhonmaverick9963]

Proselytism is more accurate, but not as catchy. How about "Get your PROPAGANDA out of comics" instead?

[@hadouradiance3566]

To be fair to the Immortal Hulk, if I recall correctly Jackie ends up seeing what happens to the Hulk and apologizes, saying that she'd never want to be like him in a different issue. And i believe that Devil Hulk's attitude about rage and revenge is proven wrong by God itself later on. Though its been a while since I've read Immortal Hulk, so i might be wrong.

[@daryltor7608]

Immortal Hulk is one of the best hulk runs ever.

[@JacobDeem13]

What an incredible video! You explained everything brilliantly with clear examples to dispel the lies being spread by mainstream media & modern-day Marvel. Even presenting how social justice was technically in old comics, but not as the heroes (social justice is villainous). I even learned a few things about the X-Men & Stan Lee's philosophy I haven't known before, and I consider myself to be a huge Marvel fan. It saddens me that Marvel might never be the same quality-driven entertainment company they used to be again, but I'll always respect Stan Lee's legacy & the spectacular heroes he created. Create Heroes, not victims Excelsior!

[@sageoverheaven]

I was worried you'd be dead like so many other favourite channels of mine, but I came back to you *cooking.* Keep up the good work!

[@LiteratureDevil]

Don't worry. I'm still around. And I've upgraded a few things!

[@Goldenbane]

What an absolute beautiful video. I loved this so much and needed to hear this so badly. The SJWs in popular culture and social media have nearly turned me as angry, hateful, and miserable as they are. They've made me want revenge because of the things they accuse me of and wanting revenge against me for...uh...people who vaguely kinda look like me and may or may not be related to me that did bad things 200 years ago. I needed this video. To hear what the men I've admired so much REALLY said in the past. To reaffirm what they and my parents helped teach me in life. Thanks LD.

[@doclouis4236]

And somehow there are people out there that claim they don't understand why most people don't like modern comics🙄

[@jhonmaverick9963]

They're either playing dumb or just real life supervillains who want people to bow to them.

[@whisped8145]

1:50 "Reactionary" is a term solely used by Socialists to call the non-Socialists not liking the Socialism/Propaganda. When they say "showing different perspectives" they mean "Socialist ideas/dogma/propaganda". Note especially that once they hold power, "different perspectives" from their Socialist ones are considered "reactionary". "Different" and any other word they use only ever counts when it means things moves towards what they want, never away from them. The Dominos are only ever allowed to fall one way, or the screech to the sky. Hence, when they say "progressive" they always mean "towards Socialism"

[@athensia443]

Carol Danvers wasn't even popular in her original comic run. Hell, there's a reason they put that girl in a coma for a decade while a better character (Rogue) ran around with her powers. And when they briefly had Carol take control of Rogue during one of her comic runs. Carol almost single handedly put that comic out of print so much so they had to back track that decision fast as hell.

[@Backstabmacro]

“It will make Reddit angry” as a bar to clear is so low you need a shovel and an hour to find it

[@The_Omega_Dragon]

I must say, as someone who's aspiring to be a writer, this video and all the others pointing out the tricks to telling engrossing stories, the shortcomings of modern mediocrity, and the lessons taught by writing legends of the past really do give me hope that I might someday create stories that people will enjoy.

[@thatHARVguy]

Stephen Amell (CW's Oliver Queen/Green Arrow) said he learned a lot from good show leads. He learned a lot more from bad show leads.

[@TheLoadingCrew]

excellent sponsor! very cool! i'll buy 10 of them!

[@LiteratureDevil]

Yeah, I'm definitely a fan.

[@whiskeyhound]

I'm curious since the book doesn't release unti next year, is the art of the waifus just a placeholder until better art is made for the final product?

[@KnucleCh]

I can’t wait for mine (I funded it early on)

[@scrittle]

Costs nothing to shill

[@doositsruminile]

GOD I love Stan Lee so much, thanks for ending it like this, I feel inspired

[@kirgan1000]

One more thing, the original X-men was not a popular comic, as a civil rights mirror, and did use re-runs to keep the cost down. It was not until writer like Chris Claremont, X-men become one of the best seller. What did he do? More supernatural fantastic things, like the Phoenix, lots of (implied) sex, soap and love drama, with the standard stop the bad guy.

[@theproplady]

Just a note: Menachem Begin is pronounced like "Mena-khim Beggin'". Other than that, really great job. All radical leftists do when they turn entertainment into vengeful screeds against the people they hate, is to show us why radical leftists should never be given any real life political power.

[@bZman]

I hate how they try to make Stan into some kind of progressive activist. I met the man, he was an entertainer and a storyteller, a businessman first and foremost. The X-Men were no agenda just a blanket appeal to "those who felt they never fit in" and the Stan Lee X-Men also FAILED. Giant Size X-Men is what SAVED the X-Men from obscurity. Chris Claremont turned the X-Men into the JUGGERNAUT it was. Without Claremont spending DECADES writing and guiding the X-Men and everything related to them from the series relaunch until the 90's we would have no X-Men. Modern comic writers are hacks who cannot even write one series for a few years much less a few decades and they cannot write even a single story well.

[@daryltor7608]

He kinda was, people were complaining about the characters. Jack and Stan still kept writing about it.

[@bendu8282]

@@daryltor7608 Yeah most of the people complaining about Stan Lee & Jack Kirby’s characters were often complaining about how radical they weren’t 😂 believing marvel tried to uphold the “evil capitalist status quo.” I know this because Stan would often talk to these young activists back in the 60’s & 70’s 😂in terms of complaining customers the situation was mostly the stark opposite back then. There were complaints by certain left leaning activists about how the comics weren’t political enough.

[@qwefg3]

It is the three flaws. 1) the parasite. It doesn't matter if they suck so long as the host they are attached to can survive ir. They cling to the big brand properties not because they want to write good stories, but because every comic could fail and yet the company will sustain itself by using the other products... Like games, toys, movies, etc. It is why Amazon could care less if rings of power flopped... Because Amazon supports itself by its main business so it can weather the losses. 2) the outlast theory. It doesn't matter if nobody likes their garbage. If they outlast their foes then the next generation will have nothing, but their garbage to read, watch, and shape them. It is why a lot of these comic book industry has recouped losses by selling the books to schools. So long as there is nothing else in the schools to read for fun besides garbage then by their logic the next generation should be primed and ready consumers of garbage. Also does not help that they can trick the younger generations into looking at it when they remember watching a good movie or a good cartoon and expect the comics to be more of the same... Failing to realize why nobody had read the garbage for the past decade. 3) The three lie system. Product X is awful because Y. Product X is okay because of Z. Product X was always F because it is now our product. Doctor Who is a prime example of this in action. Doctor Who season 11 was racist because it had always been racist. Doctor Who season 12 is okay because they address made up issue. Doctor who season 13 proved that Doctor Who was always woke as seen by the current doctor and you just never bothered to see it because you are the problem. So long as they make that narrative and try to apply social pressure by bots, mobs, and political agendas supporting them... Then they can get away with it. Just look at 40K for the most recent example. 40K is fascist. Then when got 40K isn't that bad and we got the 'the game is open to everyone' tag line with specific rules about going after those who had political agendas. Now? Now we had female space marines loud debate within the last two years... Everyone saying it was stupid. Then we get Black Rock, and Vanguard buying up 11% of stocks and Amazon offering a TV show at the cost of a few demands... And now Female Custodians were always a thing and the 40K universe was always progressive as even the Emperor of Mankind was non-binary! If nobody stops it or the outrage isn't loud enough... They simply use this event to justify their next change... And the next change... And the next... Until the company goes under. The progress of the disease working its curse within a period of less than 10 years. So long as the garbage keeps flowing and sustained by other products they think they can weather the storm.

[@viperstriker4728]

Ah, someone who knows what's up. Way to put it into words with the 3 lie system.

[@jamesneese7663]

The situation is even more galling considering how hypocritical these same activist comic pros and modern Xmen defenders are: so denounce Mutant Registration as "hate" but then these same people universally believe in gun control/restriction. Think about it: while mutants in the comic represent "minority" groups/people, unlike the real world where many/most are genuinely helpless in the face of mobs mutants have powers, many of those powers of earth shaking (sometimes literally) magnitude. Unlike humans in the real world, mutants in Earth 616 DO have the power to take over if they organized and weaponized their powers. Mutants are essentially LIVING weapons. The analogy of Xmen being stand ins for real people in the real world falls to pieces when considering how dangerous mutants countless mutants actually are and how quickly incidents like Colombine would be commonplace in a world where mutant exist. How fast would it take of incident like Parkland for these idealists and mutant defenders to suddenly be screaming for mutant registration and restriction if they were real? Since many of the comic pros today clearly are for weapon restriction, then what does that say about the mutant question? The current writers are so interested in virtue signaling and using mutants as wish fulfillment/self inserts/projection for themselves, they don't consider how Stan Lee and Chris Claremont made clear that even the mutant haters were not without SOME justification for their fears when mutants like Apocolypse, Mr Sinister, Namor, the Hellfire Club, the Brotherhood, all start trying to shake up and/or destroy the world. Today's writers are too busy feeling, that they forget to think. There is more to the mutant issue than just "oh they're just a misunderstood minority". They are also insanely DANGEROUS. They are few in number but just a few Omega level mutants could bring down the entire world. Civil rights are one thing but for average humans in earth 616 this is a real existential threat that can't just be smoothed over with a cool Hellfire Gala event.

[@taragnor]

Mutants can draw a lot of parallels to real world issues. The connection between any sort of oppressed minority is definitely there and it's pretty easy to see parallels of bigotry and hate-crimes that happen with regards to mutants, as well as a battle for legal civil rights for mutants. There's a lot of common ideas there, the idea of normals being "replaced" by mutants for instance, and people fearing mutants getting any sort of power as they could overturn the existing hierarchy. Lots of forms against bigotry can have parallels here, racism, anti-LGBT hatred and antisemitism. There's is also a parallel with gun control too, especially since the idea that X-Men tends to as the default solution is "good guy with a gun." That is after all what the X-Men are all about, good mutants helping to deal with the bad ones, even when normal people are largely helpless to handle the dangerous mutants. This is of course, just a trope of the medium in general, where superheroes fight against supervillains. I think though that while mutant powers are granted, extremely strong, most actual groups in the world could take over if they were organized and willing to resort to violence on a large scale, so I wouldn't say that's unlike the real world. Like anything comic book oriented, the comic version turns the dial to 11, but any violent organized group is a danger in real life too. It's just more extreme in comics, especially given that governments don't have sufficient number of mutant police officers and military personnel to handle mutant uprisings (who by and large tend to be independents). It's certainly the case that some of the fear of mutants is justified. But that's largely what makes it an interesting situation. Even in the real world, often neither side is 100% correct, but often times over-reactions tend to lead to problems.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

"I want a cure!" Said the girl who kills everyone she touches. "You don't need a cure!! We are perfect the way we are!!" Said the girl who controls the fucking weather.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

​@@taragnorReally? What kinda "oppressed minority" can outright kill its opressors with their fucking mind?

[@Cassandra112]

indeed. as there is actually more correct parallel. men and women. mutants are the men in this scenario. far stronger, and dangerous. and an angry man can murder a women or even another man. men have to learn to control their power, to not be threatening to other men, and women, etc. we have to have women only spaces, segregation for restrooms, sports for womens protection. women even outnumber men in reality. men are the minority. But, yeah, these activist would NEVER even consider that. it would break their brains to even consider it. they will insist men need to be lectured, to change, to be castrated, etc..

[@DD112987]

The X-men being all outcast make me think about Tolkien and the fact he preferred applicability to allegory. X-men are applicable to all outcast (black people, homosexual, etc...) and not just allegory of one specific group. They are hero who fight for a better world for everyone.

[@russellharrell2747]

Exactly. The X-men will always be ‘the other’, able to represent any group that is oppressed. It doesn’t matter if Stan intended this or not, because this aspect of the X- men was crystallized by Claremont, with Stan’s implicit approval (Stan Lee Presents…)

[@kerry-j4m]

I don't think black people are out casts,more like oppressed,discriminated against and racism is thrown against them. No one knows if a man is a homosexual unless he tells some one,black people are black all day long,they don't get to pick or chose to tell folks they're black. There're over 300 recorded incidents of black towns being burned to the ground by racist wht people,have homosexuals ever had this happen to them ??? I doubt it.The X-Men are mostly all white,hard to see other whites really hating them,tho.

[@pkphantom]

I both love and live for these longer format videos. They're so well crafted you can listen to them like a podcast or watch it like a regular video if you aren't in the car. And Whether you agree with the videos or not (though I don't think I've ever heard you miss), they give you a lot to think about through your day...easily one of my favorite channels on KZbin. I hope you keep making videos for years to come, you devil you 🤣

[@LiteratureDevil]

Hey! Really glad you enjoyed it. I think I'm moving to longer videos. I think people prefer them in this podcast era and I can give more context.

[@JeremyBelpoisX]

If I ever make my book, I want you to narrate it, I love every one of your videos, and this is no exception! I've been waiting for a proper explanation for a long time now, not that I haven't wanted to do my own research, but I find it hard to know which source to trust. But, like Stan, you're open and honest and proven. Glad to be a subscriber and will stay one, no matter what KZbin bots try to do! (Also I'd love that waifu handbook lol)

[@the1magageneral323]

YoungRippa59 said it best about how the X-men was never about the civil rights movement. That was a myth and Stan Lee said it best. Also X-men 97 is woke mess unlike the classic one from the 90s and the books. These woke women need to be fired because they don't support the characters and lore. A character's complex hero's journey story matters more than checking a box for diversity like woke women keep on pushing. It was never heavy handed political biases like the Left says. Tell a good story first.

[@GR3GORY90]

Very nice work. Clear examples and good ways to counter "the comics have always been political" arguments.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@OneofmanyASMR]

​​@@LiteratureDevileasy to do when you just lie and cheery pic. Hey why didint you talk about when the x-men became popular in the 1980's with Magento retcon to be a holocaust survivor uncanny x men 150 1981, days of future past 1981 or god loves man kills 1982 the comic to get the largest irl backlash on TV for years after the fact. Or maybe the fact the x-men werint popular till they became a minority metaphors.....mayyyybe if you were honest you'd bring any of those up?

[@LiteratureDevil]

@@OneofmanyASMR I did. I addressed how it got popular once it started focusing more on the social conflict. It was a big section, I don't know how you missed it. Also, you said cherry picking! I'm taking a drink! 🤣

[@OneofmanyASMR]

@@LiteratureDevil so I went to watch the full section to make sure i wasint misunderstanding. And I did the main thing that thru me was you putting the whole change from uncanny x-men 150 and up to Stan Lee....this is not true? Stan Lee wasint a core part of the creative team in uncanny xmen and then beyond. He didint create the changes you praise other people that would write things like days of future past (the most popular story where explicitly they are victims not heros) and God loves man kills (that explicitly starts with magneto finding 2 mutant children linched). You try to draw a distinct line between the good x men stuff and the bad stuff when that quite frankly not the case. You also don't bring up god loves man kills at least a pretty landmark comic. I do admit by skimimg you're x men section I didn't properly understand what you're advocating and I'm wrong on that. However you're main point is still incorrect. Hell most of the storys that are a landmarks point to 2 things simultaneously. That both magneto AND Xavier are wrong. The brotherhood created the days of future past timeline but Xavier compliance is what lead it to pass. Thinking one day they will change ther mind while things only get worse. Xavier goal of being good enough to be accepted by society is equally as flawed as magneto goal of being so terrifying they can't act against them. Xavier philosophy makes the x men be victims and that what the comics since civil war have dealt with. Edit you also in fact do not bring up days of future past at all. The only commentary you bring up is x-men 150 and a lil bit of the trial of Magento

[@ToastedFox]

Comics technically have been political. Even if it’s not intentional. It might not be something we find controversial at the time but can later. Also how a super hero actions were acceptable at one point but not today. Even if it’s just taking down bad guy. How should that bad guy be taken down?

[@sadpanda1775]

This was the mic drop-iest mic drop of all mic drops. You nailed it. The entire thing. Thank you so much for doing all the hard work and research that went into this!!!

[@Sakanero]

Another awesome vid LD. Thorough and hard hitting at the end there.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Took a LONG while to put it together, lol. But I think it was worth it.

[@46sn29]

Them: Captain America has always been a social justice warrior. Me: Funny, I don't remember Steve being a Communist.

[@animefan3794]

It’s always funny to me when one of them has it pointed out to them that there was a time that Steve *protected a Neo Nazi from a Jewish man*. Because as much as Steve hated what said NN was saying, he still believed he had the right to be allowed to say it.

[@jonathanathor117]

I alway thought steve to be a combination of libertarianism, conservative, classical liberalism. Really just individualism in general. He's someone who stands up for freedom and is willing to fight the government for that freedom. However he's no anarchist. Captain america is arguably one of the best leaders a superhero team can have. He can be by the books but can also think outside the box when push comes to shove.

[@MelodusDethicus]

@@jonathanathor117 Which is why he's long been my favorite Marvel hero.

[@JanstonCordell]

@@jonathanathor117 Steve was an American. The problem is that the Americans of today have been completely divorced from what that means.

[@EnriqueMaxx]

Just amazing. Very well put together video that voices actual thought and nuance. Seriously has me thinking. Thanks for the upload - i wish you did this more often.

[@LiteratureDevil]

This one took a while, but I AM planning to put together some longer and more in depth videos.

[@Lobomaru02]

How interesting that this legend about Stan Lee was only born after the man died and was unable to refute it.

[@nadrewod999]

The legend has been around for a while, but it only became a common defense at Marvel long after Stan Lee had retired from drawing comics (instead mostly just performing cameos in the MCU) and when his health was starting to fail.

[@mandelharvey3429]

Captain America champion of the handicapped from the jump. A mans worth is about determination not physical ability. Steve Rodgers was always a hero. He just now has powers.

[@robertlewis6915]

I feel like I experience cognitive dissonance every time I see somebody asserting that Steve Rogers, a guy from middle-lower class NYC in the 1940s, is all up with the woke. Somehow I don't think many people from that time and place were into trans stuff, racial justice, etc. (Race, though... see there's actually something interesting to look at, like the anti-Irish/Italian and anti-black/ Jewish stuff that was prevalent back then). I don't need him to agree with me; I just need the world to make sense. Moore is a bit of a political hack, but to my understanding he's also a competent artist who isn't merely political. He's good enough to accidentally break his own message: see Rorschach.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

The famous Curse of being a Good writter: Make a Work or Character to represent a Criticism of some Point/thing you have a Hate bone or unreconciliable disagreement with. You are too good a writter for your own good, what you made to do what you wanted instead becomes seens as something IN FAVOR of what you Hate or disagree with, the message becomes the opposite. Roscharch. The Punisher. ... I find Hilarious that it seems that the trend is that whenever a Creator with more heavy Leanings to the Left politically tries to make something to "Own the Chuds", if they are too good at their craft, the entire thing becomes something that strenghtens what they wanted to attack, if they are not good enough, the thing just causes a complete economic failure of a Comic/Book/LA or Animated series. There's never something that works in their favor Ideologically speaking

[@FrostyMts]

Ben Franklin continues to be right, he predicted all of this.

[@samuelskinner7704]

@@andrehashimoto8056 It is because the writers think 'low status' = 'bad'. Roscharch is low status, but he is willing to die rather then collaborate in the murder of millions; this makes him a hero.

[@DerrickMims]

@@FrostyMtswhat’s the Ben Franklin reference/context? Sounds intriguing.

[@joesalyers]

I don't even read comics and haven't since I was a teen in the 90s, but I spent the last hour listening deeply to your dissertation and I believe this might be one of the best arguments I have heard so far. I picked up a comic my nephew was reading a few months ago and the Batman in his book was nothing like the Batman I remembered from my childhood. He was no longer Batman but Bad-Man and the story bordered on the villain being justified. So I went home got my old Comics out of the shed and took them to my nephew, he now sees how modern comics are trying to turn him into a little communist and he's a classic story reader now. I think we might have dodged a bullet!! LOL

[@michaelihnen4384]

if they make the conversation about how to get more power, then they have already fallen to the dark side. star wars taught me at least that much.

[@Cyberswarm632]

On behalf of all the fans and others sick of this woke BS, but not eloquent or knowledgeable enough to articulate our beliefs, and arguements, I thank you for this video. Keep up the great work; in this case I am definitely a Devil's advocate

[@LegacyComics100]

This whole discourse makes me believe that these defensive“fans” and current writers never engaged with Marvel the way myself or to an extent most have been exposed to: Marvel is largely individualistic with moral dilemmas and personal conflict that Stan stated he believed DC lacked when he asked the question “what do the heroes get up to outside of the costume?” So it would be appropriate to write them like this, and share it with many writers who had interesting approaches with the characters over the years: This can be largely be illustrated through my most favorite Marvel character, *The Incredible Hulk.* Through a series of stories, it tells the story of an orderly man named Bruce Banner who cursed himself by his own work through a selfless act saving Rick Jones. Soon Roy Thomas and Bill Mantlo would take over the character to establish the event that’s integral to Bruce Banner’s character through his abusive father who killed his mom through envy and paranoia for young Banner that would cause the Hulk persona to manifest with a hatred for the puny Banner for not saving his monster. Peter David would establish one of the new dynamics with a Gray Hulk(Joe Fixit) who’s the aspects of Bruce he doesn’t let out in sunlight, Joe represents everything that Bruce is too milksop to do, through reckless, self indulgent confidence but even Joe knows where to draw the line when it comes to harming children. Bruce Banner went from a man who detested men who think with their fists until through years he learns he’ll no longer be pushed around that this will lead to Banner smacking himself out of victimhood to properly grief for his dead mother and finally gained self control through Professor Hulk through the trust of the other two Hulks to stop fighting and became a near-perfect unison that retains the aspects of the other two Hulks, Green’s savagery and strength, Gray’s confidence and cunning and Bruce Banner’s knowledge and order. These stories will stand the test of time, while its existence oppose the woke ideology cause what the ideology ultimately means is to renounce beauty, castigate strength, betray your family, burn your homeland, curse your ancestors, sterilize your children, and perish-all in the name of being “considerate.”

[@TriTomMaximum]

"Comics have ALWAYS been political!!!" Comics then: Heroes dealing with being outcasted or the moralities of humanity. Often times, their own in world politics Comics now: COLORED GAY GOOD! TRUMP BAD!

[@dbsommers1]

Except their version of 'political' always means 'embracing the left in any and all things'. If it's the least bit non left leaning, they then complain about it.

[@FreakazoidRobots]

This is the best break down on the topic of all the ones I've seen. Good job!

[@LiteratureDevil]

Much appreciated!

[@jameshurley776]

The bryan singer movies and the X-men legends games introduced me to the X-men comics in the 2000s! X-men yes does have some political allegories but not every X-men story is god loves man kills!

[@sethd.8381]

I'm so glad you're back man! Please never stop making these videos.

[@theotherjared9824]

Many miss the point of mutants, which is they are walking talking nukes. Regular humans have every right to be afraid of them given the amount of destruction they can accidentally cause and the government causing more destruction to detain them. This fear turns to hate and prejudice, which is where the allegory comes in. The mutants are not defenseless, which makes their ostracization more tragic as they were literally born that way and are unable to lead normal lives.

[@BobMcBobJr]

There's a difference between being "political" and having politics in it and having values or morals with political implications. To use your example: The x-men has internal politics within the confine of the story that is not from the outside. You can draw allegories from the values prevented in that conflict like with civil rights but it is not JUST the civil rights movement. This format is much more forgiving for the author. You CAN write a "political" story and have it be good but it has to show "the" truth in as close to it's entirety as possible. Even if one side is wrong, they have reasons they are wrong that make them seem right to themselves. It is a delicate balance but if you can show "my" truth from the perspective of BOTH sides then you can make it work ... which is why the SJWs have such a hard time accomplishing this. They reject the concept of an actual truth on principle. They don't have the mindset that everyone is working imperfectly to discover the actual truth and so can't understand perspectives other than their own. "My" truth is, afterall, "the" truth.

[@Jackfromshack]

This is the most in-depth and comprehensive analysis on this topic that I have seen on the Internet, which is so necessary especially today. Thank you! We should protect this video from deleting and save Stan Lee's legacy at any cost.

[@daryltor7608]

By saving Stan Lee's legacy, you would not acknowledge the work of Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko.

[@Jackfromshack]

@@daryltor7608 They are of equal importance to me, each in his own path. No need to try to pit them against each other with their foreheads. Only they had the right to clarify the relationship between themselves, since they actually worked closely together. Not me.

[@daryltor7608]

@@Jackfromshack They did but Jack Kirby did most of the groundwork. Stan Lee did do a lot but not all.

[@ravenRedwake]

33:36 which John Wick used the excuse of his trauma dog being killed to “do something” where the only thing he’s good at is killing. It’s a tragedy.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Yes. I even hold the belief that he might just be a villain protagonist.

[@mrksimka1159]

@@LiteratureDevilhe’s a hitman. Of course he’s villain protagonist. It’s objectively true no matter if you agree or not with his rampage. Anyone saying otherwise should be checked in with specific doctors.😂

[@reddeadreaver8558]

Honest writing paints fictional characters with real-life evil. Dishonest writing paints real-life people with fictional evil. Helluva quote.

[@matthewwriter9539]

So a United States lawyer attacks a police vehicle, and damages United States property...shouldn't she be fines, and even disbarred?

[@louisduarte8763]

9:51 I loved it when Linkara reviewed X-Men Green and declaring "THIS COMIC SUCKS!"

[@bendu8282]

He did 😂😂😂😂

[@LiteratureDevil]

Well, it DOES. Really badly lol

[@darthgamer9861]

I’m genuinely shocked Linkara said it was bad given he proudly proclaimed he was an SJW back in 2017

[@louisduarte8763]

@@LiteratureDevil He also described it as an environmental story written by someone who HATES environmentalism.

[@PunxsutawneyDave]

LD 's videos always kill it with how insightful and entertaining they are. I would dearly love to know what LD thinks of God Loves, Man Kills because that's another X-Men book I hear tons of people use to justify pushing their narrative.

[@LiteratureDevil]

I'll look into it!

[@davfree9732]

Marvel should reflect that if the world outside your window has a lock on the window, and bars on the window, then it might be a good idea to see if you can walk outside and check you have not become a prisoner of your own narrow vision that the window provides.

[@wrylucifer]

People who compare Malcom X to Magneto, really don’t understand his positions like…at all.

[@rsync9490]

59:56 not "likely' straight up. Lily Orchard herself calls Magneto a hero, fighting against oppressors in her analysis of the character and just straight up justifies his darker nature. Lily and most of the social justice warriors always had sympathy for these characters because they believe that said characters are the only ones fighting against the status quo versus the heroes of the story who protect the innocent from their wrath and vengeance. The social justice warriors like Lily see the latter as upholding oppressive societal systems, like Magneto who is confused and annoyed against Professor Xavier fighting against him. The social justice warriors believe that if a system is oppressive, *it must be destroyed* and any character who fights against those fighting to destroy that system is villainous. Kind of like fighting for the galactic empire in star wars against rebel groups who raid and destroy worlds for resources.

[@LegacyComics100]

Truth is, the system is becoming oppressive nowadays, but it’s mostly being done by people like Lily or the SJWs who are in power and have a major hold on politics and the industries than those they believe are the oppressors. I mean Conservatives has been conflated so much with fascism that you can pretty much do another “anyone I don’t like is Hitler.” It’s a funny irony, they love to write stories about rebelling against an oppressive system or regime when they’re an oppressive system themselves.

[@PumpkinSwag]

That's what makes it ironic when they use X-Men to stick it to us. Their views align with Magneto more than Professor X, and Magneto is the bad guy.

[@VunderGuy]

He's not a SHE, dude. Stop playing into HIS delusions.

[@darthgamer9861]

God I hate Lilly.

[@Nickle_King]

these hateful fools. I honestly feel sorry for them. They think the general superhero media audience DOESN'T want characters that are of either gender, any skin color, or any cultural background? Because hell ya we do. The location or superficial features of the character is not the problem. The problem is the hate. The hate of what came before. The hate of perceived (real or imagined) injustices. The hate of anyone who doesn't agree. "Have comic books been political" is a useless question. EVERYTHING is political. Stories from Mary had a Little Lamb to The Lord of the Rings to The Odyssey all have politics in them in some way shape or form. So when people say "Keep politics out of those stories." what they're really saying is "Keep YOUR politics out of THOSE stories." When it comes down to it, the problem isn't what these people believe. They're allowed to believe what they want. The problem is wrong format. The fans aren't angry at the message these people want to say. They're angry that they're using previously established properties to spread that message. Proof? Nobody hated Miles Moralis until writers started making Peter Parker weak and pathetic. It's why I pity these people. Society isn't standing in their way. Society isn't holding them back. Society isn't stopping them from growing. They are. It's ALL self inflicted. They can't imagine any ideal that doesn't match their own. They're narcissists. And being a narcissist is a sad, lonely, pitiable existence.

[@RachelNichols-writer]

Forget the word "woke." Forget political. The stuff they put out is spiteful and mean spirited. The "heroes" are self-centered, obsessed with power, and just plain unlikeable.

[@Crimzon_Nova]

The last sentence you said. Spot on!

[@OneofmanyASMR]

Um my dude a large portion of people hated miles morales when he came out what drugs are you on? Other then the racists he was the replacement to the family spiderman that had an actual family even a daughter (do you even know about him?) To say pepol "didint care about miles" is just a straight up lie hell if you look back at just spider verse ther were still pepol hating miles. Ranging from the excuse of "well Peter is weak in this movie" to just outright racism and that you know in 2018! Like do you legit not read comics my dude?

[@taragnor]

It's mostly bad writing. The whole message about oppression, racism, bigotry... etc. Yeah, X-Men has had that for a long time. Mutants being hunted and trying to find ways to coexist with humans is a core concept of X-Men. And really nobody complained about X-Men being woke when the writing is good. A good writer knows how to make the audience cheer for their protagonist. Even if they don't necessarily agree with the writer's politics, they will at least tell a story where they can get you to empathize with this character for that story. Even people who are against the idea of vigilante justice will cheer for Batman in a good Batman story. People that have racist tendencies in real life can still be on the side of the X-men as the good guys, and see the friends of humanity as the bigoted villains. This is because good writers can sell a good narrative, and it's not hard to get people to (at least in that fictional universe) embrace whatever politics the writer is pushing. On the other hand, what's changes is that a lot of these modern stories are extremely poorly-written. Take the She Hulk show. Instead of actually having some degree of real injustice done to her that could put the audience on her side, like say her boss unjustly firing her because she won't have sex with him, she complains about things like men cat-calling her and claiming it evokes the same level of anger as what Bruce Banner has been through, which was literally to be hunted down and forced on the run by authorities. So through some bad writing, they've taken what should be the protagonist and made us think she's delusional and narcissistic.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

​@@OneofmanyASMRAre these haters with us in the room right now?

[@kelvaris1]

Bruce, in the comics, was an arrogant scientist who made the greatest weapon the world had ever seen, without thought to the consequences. Only to be turned into the greatest monster the world had ever seen by that weapon, humbling him. That's why when the movies made it about curing cancer it didn't work as well. She-Hulk needed something to parallel that.

[@mechajay3358]

There never has been a video that goes so In-depth debunking "It's always been Woke" narrative quite like this. LD deserves major praise.

[@isidrohuicochea2432]

X-men have always been well to me about an outsider finding a place and fighting for other people to find a place where they belong. Well done well done. You earned a subscriber

[@LiteratureDevil]

Nice! And welcome!

[@whisped8145]

Replace the word "political" with "propaganda" and they don't have wordgames to hide in anymore.

[@Wolffman109]

What about "political propaganda"?

[@odindarkll3706]

When I was reading comics as a teenager, I never really thought about how politics enhanced the stories. Now that I'm older, I now believe that politics is a potential tool just like anything else. You can use social commentary as a means to build worlds and conflicts like X-Men defending humankind, fighting for equality between humans and their kind, all while taking down evil mutants whom are prejudice towards humanity. Then there's the modern day kind of politics, extreme left mentality (progressive, ego-driven ideas, and attacks the opposite direction) that are often bathed in "their truths". Nothing screams narcissism like twisting Stan Lee's quips just to justify turning beloved comic book heroes and stories into a politically biased propaganda machine!

[@xoso599]

Whenever either in universe or in commentary someone says people hate and fear mutants because they don't under stand them, I always think that's nonsense. They are feared because they have super human powers that can murder and kill on a scale equal (depending on the power) to even our most dangerous military equipment. Only without any of the control structures around a military force. It's like the twisting the word phobia from fear into hate, while ignoring we have a Greek word for hate, miseo. People don't hate mutants because they don't understand them. They hate them because they do understand them and are scared of their powers and how many mutants turn to criminality.

[@silverprimus321boi9]

ben's line of "great power, great responsibility" rings perfectly to this. When peter got his powers, he was quite self centered. it took him his uncle dying in front of him to realise that he has a responsibility to not abuse his power. And he's just 1 guy. I don't think out of the thousands of mutants, many will fully understand that.

[@jonathananderson5990]

Well-said and that's why the civil rights allegory never really worked very well. When a teenager can suddenly make things explode by touching them, we're dealing with a very real, tangible, and dangerous problem. That's not bigotry. That's not making assumptions based on superficial characteristics. Humans would be correct in assuming that these individuals could band together and take over. Gun control may be a better analogy. It reminds me of J. Michael Straczynski's "Rising Stars" comic series, which does a pretty good job of exploring this in a grounded way.

[@megamario411]

Crazy to think about that She-Hulk scene with Bruce like Bruce didn’t live with an abusive father and a dead mother and now lives walking on egg shells his whole life loool.

[@Beard_Hood]

This was brilliant. I've been wanting someone to make a one shot description and take down of the retardation in modern comics. "The villains are now seen as hero's" is the perfect description of the problem with modern writers.