The Truth you need to know about Mara Jade

[@myphone9831]

She wasn’t brainwashed from the age of 18 though, she was brainwashed from childhood (as a baby). Her whole worldview was shaped by Palpatine and the empire. That’s why her character development and is so interesting, realizing the hoops her head still jumps through to justify her as “good guy.” Love the mara content and would love to see more.

[@warwatcher91]

Yeah, there's no possible way you can be a "hand" of Palpatine, without having blood on your hands.

[@jonathanryan9946]

Zahn never shied away from the blood on her hands, he just had her killing darker characters. Zahn did is because other authors started to go crazy and had her hunting down wife and children of Traitors. So Zahn specifically had her sparing a wife and daughter of a traitor when Palpatine was unaware of them, but left it open if Palpatine could manipulate her by the force in that other situation. Look back at Zahn's original description of Mara's role in the Thrawn trilogy (see Heir to the Empire exert below). She was clearly someone who hunted down Traitors still within the Empire and no one else. She only went after Luke, if you recall, once Vader offered him teaming up against Palpatine and ruling the Empire togther. Her eyes filled with distant pain. "I was his hand, Skywalker," she said, her voice remembering. "That's how I was known to his inner court: as the Emperor's Hand. I served him all over the galaxy, doing jobs the Imperial Fleet and stormtroopers couldn't handle. That was my one great talent, you see-I could hear his call from anywhere in the Empire, and report back to him the same way. I exposed traitors for him, brought down his enemies, helped him keep the kind of control over the mindless bureaucracies that he needed. I had prestige, and power, and respect." So Mara had a lot of blood on her hands... it's just most of them probably deserved it and those that didn't were more because Palpatine was controlling her (like C'Baoth did to others). All that really happened was Zahn trying to get Mara Jade back to how he set her up and not how a few authors tried to misdirect her character instead.

[@SardonicJosh]

@jonathanryan9946 thank you! It’ honestly makes me furious how other authors manage to ruin Mara’s character by making her a shallow chick and someone who killed families in cold blood.

[@Gadrun]

I like how you've preserved Eck's capitalisation of the title as well, lmao

[@sergioruiz733]

It honestly would have been nice to see her hunt down a terrorist resistence group in Legends that had no concern for collateral damage or an Inquisitor that had gone Rogue/ seen Palpatine for what he is or a Senator that wasn't against extreme measures against the Empire that could have had Mara briefly having her eyes opened and internally start doubting the Empire, but also eliminating threats to the Emperor rather then targeting corrupt officials and casually running into Luke and the main OT cast, which as a reader I kinda disliked in Choices of One, it felt like Zahn was really riding the line with that, I would have much preferred a novel where Mara stood out on her own with no Luke/ OT characters or Thrawn.

[@kovasataa4936]

I think the "she wasn't so bad see" parts of newer Mara portrayals was more an answer to her being the one emperor's hand that wasn't explicitly dark. There had to be a reason for that and this seems to be a way to justify it. And also those portrayals have her as a protagonist alongside the rebel characters so it is easier to have her do not morally dubious or bankrupt missions for the novel. I'd like to believe that there is a middle ground where she kills rebel sympathizers off screen and so wasn't just a good naive servant. Great video, wasn't a tendency of Zahn's I was conscious of until now

[@Speedster___]

A head canon of mine is A: acknowledging Zahn word as god B: was misled by palpatine. If Palpatine could run rings around the Jedi council a teenager who was functionally raised by Palpatine/his servants would be nothing. C: See Mareek Steele. I don’t believe he was ever a dark sided

[@BoisegangGaming]

A part of me wonders of this retroactive redemption is the result of "well we can't have fan-favorite characters be morally bad or dubious" (i.e. the Han shot second effect)

[@jonathanryan9946]

No, it was set up day one in Heir to the Empire. Mara Jade stated in the book the targets she went after in it. It's just some later books ignored that, and Zahn pushed back against it to get her back to how he had always set her up. Here's the quote from the Thrawn trilogy about who she went after: Her eyes filled with distant pain. "I was his hand, Skywalker," she said, her voice remembering. "That's how I was known to his inner court: as the Emperor's Hand. I served him all over the galaxy, doing jobs the Imperial Fleet and stormtroopers couldn't handle. That was my one great talent, you see-I could hear his call from anywhere in the Empire, and report back to him the same way. I exposed traitors for him, brought down his enemies, helped him keep the kind of control over the mindless bureaucracies that he needed. I had prestige, and power, and respect." Can you see her hunting down families after that quote? Well, certain authors tried to get her to do so regardless of her being established not to go after such targets. Zahn actually had her spare a family of a Traitor to counter what the other author had her go after.

[@ryancarrell3186]

I don't know too much about Mara, outside of the Thrawn Trilogy and Allegiance, but I supposed you could always spin this as "Palpatine knew she had a strong moral compass, and purposely sent her on missions that wouldn't make her doubt the Empire or him". I personally think that any Emperors Hand that was sent on those darker missions Mara was implied to go on, would likely be beyond any redemption. Though, I guess Vader is the counter to that argument.

[@Kolonol1]

Ok so let me give you some vital information about Mara Jade......Mara was a babe...a redhead babe...a badass redhead babe who could use the force lol do I need to say more? Badass, redhead, extremely strong with the force, sexy as hell.....the rest didn't matter HAHAHAHA

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@Kolonol1 technically Timothy Zahn never once described Mara as sexy. That was all Kevin J Anderson, Michael Stackpole and later authors.

[@matternativ]

@@jonathanryan9946 Stackpole actually showed some restraint as well which is funny considering everyone was usually described as hot in his books, men or women. But yeah Anderson a 100% affected how she was portrayed going forward for the worse. Well, him and her comic book outfit. Zahn himself usually only subtly implied that she was attractive (if she wasn't, the whole dancer at jabba's probably wouldn't work for example) except for a handful of times when people commented on it aka Karrde in a short story and a pirate in Allegiance.

[@wilhufftarkin8543]

@@matternativ What is wrong with characters being sexy?

[@thedatatreader]

There's a fine line between sexy and sexualized. Zahn said she looked good sure, but she had way more to her character than her appearance which was promptly sidelined when people painted her as a model/femme fatale later on.

[@matternativ]

Let me start by saying: Good point, good video. As much as I enjoyed canon Thrawn the apologism from Zahn has gone too far in my opinion and the tendency to do that for other characters as well is certainly there. And here comes the part with the 🍑 But: Outside of the dialogue in survivors quest (stuck out to me too when I reread it earlier this year) I find Mara's portrayal somewhat more consistent and believable and here is why: 1) Unlike thrawn she's mostly been a loner left to her own devices. There's even a line in allegiance or choices of one where she has to admit to herself that she misses the troopers and hates that she feels that way like the moody teen she is at that point. 2) it's not like she didn't kill either. She was ready to kill the guy in 'choices' but sensed there was more to uncover. (She also kills a lot in her solo comic) In her conversation with Palpatine afterwards it seems a little like he's disappointed if you read between the lines a little. Yes part of zahn's reason was undoubtedly to have us read a story about her as a sympathetic protagonist but part of it was surely that her just killing some dude was too simple and uninteresting. Timmy Z loves his complex story structures. 3) throughout the thrawn trilogy we see her having multiple chances to kill Luke but she accepts every flimsy excuse not to do it (most notably in the forest, you can't tell me she couldn't bullshit her way out of a conversation with imperials while Luke's corpse gets eaten in some bush) which I see less as a sign of immediate affection and more a sign of her being a good person underneath it all. 4) a lot of what we get about her past in those three books is very vague and left up to interpretation. Other than with thrawn who clearly portrays his villainous tendencies out in the open throughout these books they never really nail down what she's done or hasn't done. 5) I think the comic "by the emperor's hand" probably gives us the best look how Zahn saw her from the start with the emperor calling her "neither light nor dark" and really given in hindsight given how many dark side users betray each other left and right and how volatile they are keeping someone at hand who isn't like that and who keeps a clear head is probably not the worst idea from palps perspective. tl,dr: Yes she changed just a bit too much retroactively but not as much as Pellaeon nor did she do a u turn like thrawn.

[@user-yq9im9dk9z]

Zahn endorses Grey Jedi 😨

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@user-yq9im9dk9z Zahn didn't endorse gray Jedi, he never once used the term. Zahn endorsed Mara Jade being more a neophyte who only knew of the force as a power source that could warn her of danger too. Further she mostly did her deeds as a service to Palpatine, which is a lightside trait. It's just that she was basically mind controlled to think Palpatine was some great benevolent leader, who just had to do minor evils (think akin to the Prince by Machiavelli) for the greater good. So basically Mara was like the Agent in the Serenity film, but if he had Rivers abilities. She knows what she's doing is bad, but it can help the galaxy as a whole and those that she went after basically brought it upon themselves. However Mara simultaneously never had personal ambition. What Mara did was absolutely evil, but she was shielded from falling to the darkness because she never did so out of personal desires but pure belief is that she was doing so for the greater good while being mind controlled. "Neither light" meant that she did evil, but "nor dark" meant that she did so out of a Jedi style belief in service to others and only doing the minimum evil she had to. Think of it another way... what if Palpatine captured a Jedi child but taught her to hear his will and not the forces. This child continues to do all the service that Jedi like, but here she thinks helping Palpatine is akin to doing the forces will. Thus making Mara Palpatine's pet Jedi, kinda a trophy of their weakness but simultaneously very useful because she'll never seek to break the rule of two as she doesn't want power for herself. The illusion that Mara is doing what's right can be maintained in her mind as long as she feels her targets are actually badguys. This is why Mara was never really sent after the Rebellion, they'd confuse her and possibly break his spell over her if she was forced to study them. To Mara the Rebellion was a symptom of Palpatine's need to remove the corrupt people she was killing. They were essentially victims Jedi manipulation and corrupt government officials Palpatine had to deal with. This is why, once Mara Jade was free of Palpatine's mind control and started to lose the Imperial dogma, she so easily slipped into becoming a Jedi. She essentially always was one, just one blind to the forces will over Palpatine's mental commands.

[@jonathanryan9946]

I definitely agree about Thrawn... but not Mara. Look back at the original Thrawn trilogy quote from Mara about her role: Her eyes filled with distant pain. "I was his hand, Skywalker," she said, her voice remembering. "That's how I was known to his inner court: as the Emperor's Hand. I served him all over the galaxy, doing jobs the Imperial Fleet and stormtroopers couldn't handle. That was my one great talent, you see-I could hear his call from anywhere in the Empire, and report back to him the same way. I exposed traitors for him, brought down his enemies, helped him keep the kind of control over the mindless bureaucracies that he needed. I had prestige, and power, and respect." Her quote makes it clear that she first and foremost a secret agent looking for corruption and traitors. She an investor first and assassin last. She's just basically a believer in the Empire and one who went after those trying to corrupt it like the Old Republic. She was absolutely misguided and doing wrong, but she wasn't ever knowingly evil... and being manipulated by force powers of Palpatine is a pretty good defense of why she did it. It was the fandom who decided she was darker than Zahn ever implied. This was especially true due to other writers like Kevin J Anderson, Barbara Hamby, and Troy Denning really running with her character in ways Zahn never implied. Simply put, her being this evil character who needed a big redemption was a retcon by later writers. Hell, Troy Denning tried to have her hunt down a family of a Traitor, when that was clearly against that original quote above. Zahn specifically had her character more a Winter Soldier / Black Widow hybrid. Who subconsciously was being manipulated. It's why she was so disgusted with C'Baoth getting control of Jaina and Jacen Solo and rushed off to save them. Mara Jade was very subtlety trying to save kids from becoming the next her. She knew on a deep level how messed up her mind was. Mara Jade was fairly consistent in her entire character arc by Timothy Zahn. It was other authors who ran the wrong way with her character and placed this notion that she was a darkside assassin. When in reality she was a mind controlled victim thinking she wasn't doing evil and had become Jaded due to thinking she was doing something absolutely needed to stabilize the galaxy. Basically she was more like a KGB agent who thought they were the goodguy, and not one of the Soviets who did it for personal gain. Mara was just tricked via force powers and a whole life of dogma in believing in the cause, like a kid who doesn't realize the cult they grew up in is evil until she started to see and live with the regular people of the galaxy. But she never was the type to harm innocents, she thought she was going after the evil within the Empire to make it a better galaxy. We literally see Mara in the original Thrawn trilogy saving others at risk to herself and not using information she had to get a get out of jail free card. She told Leia everything she knew just to help out the galaxy. So sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of Mara Jade. She, unlike Thrawn, is fairly consistent. Honestly I think this is a case of other authors gaslighting readers into thinking her role was far darker.

[@CoreysDatapad]

"Exposing traitors" would still include actual Rebels, not just people who may work with Rebels but who then she conveniently doesn't kill because they only happened to be working with the Rebels for a secondary reason that she clears up and forgives by her own authority. There's a definite attempt to stop her from ever really having being an oppositional force to the "good guys" the more of her backstory we get. Unless all of her jobs happened to end with the same lucky circumstances where the traitor wasn't actually a traitor working for the clear other side and only needed to have their other problem cleared up, then those elements of her past would definitely have existed, and Zahn tried to bury that as much as possible.

[@CoreysDatapad]

You can keep all the "you weren't really dark, you were being manipulated parts" without having to say "you were being manipulated but luckily never did anything that bad anyways." The later undercuts what you're trying to do with the former.

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@CoreysDatapad You're making a mountain out of an anthill. That quote clearly states she went after target Vader/Imperial Fleet/Stormtroopers wasn't going after. Those forces went after the Rebels in open Rebellion. Next off, "exposing Traitors" would at most usually imply going after Rebel spies. Rebels by their very nature don't need to be exposed, they're already openly fighting. Sorry but I think you're projecting what you want the quote to mean based on your already established preconceived opinions. Then look at her going after Luke, she only went after him once Palpatine found out that Vader offered Luke to have them overthrow Palpatine. That was her priority threats to Palpatine. Mara hadn't gone after Luke beforehand. It was only once Vader was a possible traitor. Mara's role was mostly about maintaining control after the dissolution of the Imperial Senate. She went after threats the absence of bureaucracy and the threat of the Death Star created, but was a singular agent, not a force who could take on giant rebel cells. What she went after was Rogue Imperials... aka Exposing Traitors. Now could some of them be Rebel sympathizers, absolutely... but they could also be Warlords in the making, Imperials stealing resources from Palpatine, people thinking of breaking away but not joining the Rebellion to Restore the Republic. Mara's actions in the Thrawn trilogy also showed she was morally good. Just confused about what that meant. She always dispensed her own sense of justice. Further look at C'Baoth and his mind control victims, they mostly just did what they were ordered to but blind to other issues. Mara too likely was just being compelled to do her singular Order at any given time but then defaulted to being a her normal self in regards to other issues. Should she have killed a rebel here or there, sure, but it's not that big of an issue. It's mostly alluded to already as to why she acted this way and believed in the cause. Remember That same quote shows she thought she had authority and respect. Further she is force sensitive, it's entirely possible that she was influenced by it in this one situation you're referring to.

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@CoreysDatapad They never once said "you never did anything bad" though. The books make it very clear that she murdered and helped an evil Empire. Even clarify that was evil actions with no ands ifs ors about it. Luke went into a whole lesson in Hand of Thrawn duology about how her service mentality though protected her from ever truly going darkside based upon what she did, as service is a lightside characteristic and when left to her own devices did choose the moral path. Which fit her characters actions in the original thrawn trilogy perfectly, as remember C'Baoth was more her antagonist than Luke's. He represented how Palpatine manipulated her, just in less insane and more pure evil ways but the same force mind control approach. You're just getting hung up on one case of not killing a goodguy character, to which she was always setup as having morals. So if she did, they'd undercut that established character trait. Yes, the best solution would have been to have never been placed in that situation in the first place... but she was. So Zahn had a choice betray her established good personality and make her murder a character she wasn't set after. Or have her justify not killing them, which kinda runs counter to her job. He chose the later, and honestly the lesser of the two dilemmas. Remember, she wasn't technically sent after those people and Mara Jade always written before as morally good just misguided. It honestly does fit her character, it's just that the explanation given could have been better written.

[@MariahJade1]

As a big Mara Fan I agree with this post.

[@darthsyphilis6008]

I feel like Thrawn is still more consistant in the canon novels and the old trillogy than he is to the Rebels portrail. Thrawn has a character arc in the trilogy, he is much less aggressive and more respectful of his underlings then he was by the beginning. (Exemplified by the two officers that failed him). In Rebels he is a one dimensional dumbass who is treated as smart because everyone around him is dumbed down. He is emotional. His sociopathic mumbling voice is the opposite of what a commander would sound like. He forgoes the element of surprise to gloat. And he looses in the end because his underlings don't respect him. It's like a checklist of the most out of character things for Thrawn to do.

[@TheEnecca]

i couldnt imagine thrawn sounding otherwise tbh. but yeah he is wastly different between books and show. especially in how cartoonishly evil he is.

[@Kolonol1]

I couldn't agree more with you there...that's completely the opposite of what Thrown would do....he was cold and calculating. He demanded respect but he gave it as well. That's why he died in the Thrown Trilogy. He trusted his underlings. Trusted 1 of them too much...he was cold and calculating but he was intelligent about it and he didn't destroy needlessly or mindlessly. When he destroyed something it was surgical and calculated and he only destroyed things that needed destroyed to meet his goal and nothing more...

[@seawind930]

I didn't like the whole "Everything was to prepare for the Yuuzhan Vong" idea that Zahn put up for Thrawn and the Empire but I also didn't like the way Rebels portrayed Thrawn as a Cartoonishly Evil badguy that had his plans screwed up because of his subordinates. He was only smart because everyone else was dumb and it made him feel like the villain of the week like they did with Grievous in Clone Wars.

[@minicle426]

Thrawn was always a boring overated villain stu anyway..

[@histguy101]

It was bs anyway, as the empire of the hand did nothing when they invaded

[@liamclarke91]

​@@histguy101 Probably for the best. A shady Imperialist power saving the day wouldn't have been very Star Wars.

[@eds1942]

(Late night argument at the Skywalkers) Luke: “You killed people for the Emperor.” Mara: “Yes, but they were all bad.” Luke: “I find that a little convenient.” Mara: “It’s true, from a certain point…” Luke: “…of view. I’m sleeping on the couch.”

[@andrewhaney1962]

Love the disclaimer about orchard. Love your content Corey! Tapcaf transmissions is my favorite podcast.

[@erickhart8046]

Yea I love mara jade.

[@SoApost]

Luke’s probable mental reaction to Mara: “First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me. Blow.”

[@AC20sAkimbo]

I'm surprised Palpatine bothered to wait until 18 to begin brainwashing. The Jedi proved you should start young as possible.

[@ArcBing]

Great video, love the preface about the video before you dive in. Definitely agree but the setup gives great personal context for your thoughts 🙂

[@markveres7369]

We need Mara Jade project in the canon please

[@PenguinofD00mxxx]

Interesting points

[@hayleyglyphs]

we need Mara to show up in canon as an ISB intern sent by the Emperor

[@wilhufftarkin8543]

I still don't understand why people want Legends characters in Canon, even though they wouldn't be the same characters at all, except for their name and looks. Post-Endor Canon Luke is a hobo loser who never got married, so if Luke isn't married to anyone, Canon Mara wouldn't be married to Luke, which means that she would be a completely different person. It's the same thing with Kyle Katarn. Kyle is officially in Canon, but he isn't the same guy who got the Death Star plans or became the badass Jedi Master in Luke's Praxeum who defeated Jerec, Desann and trained the Jedi who defeated Tavion (and by extention Marka Ragnos himself). Also, currently, there is no redhead in Hollywood hot enough to portray Mara, anyway. Julianne Moore (my headcanon Mara Jade) is too old and Lindsay Lohan sadly fucked herself up with drugs. And no, fake redheads aren't worthy to portray Mara! ;)

[@polyman6859]

@@wilhufftarkin8543 Its inevitable Mara will be in Disney canon, which is a fate worse than death LOL. She's just too popular.

[@Martian2607]

Personally, I think it would be cool if Thrawn is ultimately trying to undermine Palpatine and the first order by trying to take over the new republic. Especially since we know the new republic is largely ineffective against them

[@magivenderstudios]

Caption: marriage aid skywalker 😂

[@MrNoscopeJones]

5:30 So Mara was jaded, was she?

[@animationunlimited2958]

This is why I always liked Juurus C'boath. Even his original counterpart was pretty much Count Dooku before Count Dooku.

[@DarkVaati13]

Thank you for this video. I've felt for a while that Mara was one of Zahn's most white washed character. Something about Hand of Thrawn that annoys me is how he spends so much time taking potshots at other authors about their portrayals while also backpaddling on his own. Mara's portrayls in later books downplaying what she did for the Empire, but also writing off Mara's relationship with Lando as some cover story seems extremely childish and weirdly conservative considering Mara was just ragging on Luke for having a lot of exes.

[@JJJBunney001]

I think it's a bit different there, Luke wasn't banging any of Mara's best friends. But yeah that whole period of the EU was a shit show with authors trying to compete with their characters and their relationships

[@DarkVaati13]

​@@JJJBunney001 My point is it should/could have been a non-issue. "Yeah we had a thing for a bit, but we ended it." By this point Lando has been married for a while so it's not even like there's lingering feelings between them. It's a dumb thing to get hung up on. Zahn though goes out of his way to say that there wasn't actually anything between them and spitefully inserting his opinions about past stories. Plus he is held to such an authority that he is basically retconning that and others.

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@DarkVaati13 I do agree that Zahn went a bit far with his explanation of them never having a relationship, but then again it was such a crazy pairing to begin with. We're talking about the same guy who basically didn't trust her in the Thrawn trilogy because he recognized her from Jabba's and really didn't trust her motives. Kevin J Anderson and Barbara Hamby also set up a ton of crack pairings that really just made no sense. Luke with a force ghost in a computer who then possesses the corpse of one of his students off page (which is way more morally questionable than Luke and Mara); Wedge and the designer of the Death Star who was so sheltered she didn't even think they'd use it on populated planets who is also an exotic alien; Winter and Ackbar being implied to have a thing; the Mara and Lando. Now KJA did state he called Zahn and asked if Luke and Mara were too hook-up, but he never once stated he asked if he could set up Zahn's character with Lando either. That's a really dick move to do to another author's character especially one who may return to the franchise. Further KJA called to ask after Dark Force Rising but while Zahn was still finishing The Last Command. So Zahn could have told him how unlikely that would be based on their interactions in that book. Further Zahn's quotes on the matter never really bring up KJA asking him but clearly stating he told Lucasfilm once finishing the Thrawn trilogy that he thought Luke and Mara could work out well together... which was a year before Jedi Academy trilogy came out and nearly 2 years before the books in it that tried to hook up Mara Jade and Lando out of the blue, so KJA and Barbara Hamby had plenty of time to see how crazy a pairing it was. The issue was LFL gave Barbara Hamby a blank check to hook up Luke and Callista before the Thrawn trilogy was finished not even really knowing her plans. After the book was released LFL nearly instantly ordered KJA to break them up for the next book. They then called Zahn and stated he could hook up Luke and Mara. KJA was then told they would be the pair, and he really didn't take it well, there's a subtle reference in Young Jedi Knights of a redhead Captain asking her blonde male copilot to marry her moments before their ship blows up. Which came out shortly after when Pablo Hildgo confirmed KJA was told in Star Wars Insider Q&A. KJA then purposefully kept Mara out of all YJK books even though they he knew they were married by that point. So yeah, weird author infighting, but the majority of it was on KJA side. Zahn was just sticking to his original plan and waving away writing that made no lore sense anyways.

[@DarkVaati13]

​@@jonathanryan9946 Chill dude. There was a lot of pettiness that went around. Saying that Palpy didn't come back in Dark Empire and was just a clone, ragging on a lot of the romances, saying Luke was failing at his academy, etc. Zahn did plenty of "well this author wrote a story and I didn't like it" and used his characters as a mouthpiece. It's why Hand of Thrawn really doesn't sit well with me. Doesn't help that it does a lot of hokey stuff too even though he's deriding stuff (whether they deserve it or not).

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@DarkVaati13 first off, I'm very chill. There's nothing I said that suggested I'm upset, more just going into nerd mode if anything. Lol Second, Zahn didn't say Dark Empire was a Clone, he has Mara speculate the possibility that it wasn't the original Palpatine. Nothing more, as Mara didn't have an opinion of who else it was. So it's left open to you as the reader if you want to agree with Mara or not. Remember Dark Empire was super divisive, so for the fans that thought Dark Empire ruined Anakin's sacrifice and that conquering death by villains is a stupid idea because it means they can always return again later... Zahn gave them a way to dismiss Dark Empire as an imposter (maybe the Clone thinking it was the original or someone else using essence transference). Further Lucasfilm themselves gave Kevin J Anderson the option of retconning Dark Empire comics. Lucas actually hated it according to Lucy Autrey Wilson who literally ran Lucasfilm's EU. She stated she liked it and suggested it as an alternative to Tom Veitch original pitch of a guy pretending to be Vader. Lucas told her he never would have approved it had he known, she countered that he literally wasn't involved with it so that was impossible for her to know and it was this that caused Lucas to get bullet point outlines of events to approve. KJA didn't though because he was literally cowriting with Tom Veitch who wrote Dark Empire for the Tales of the Jedi comics at the time. But honestly it would have been for the best had he done it. Dark Empire comics work a lot better as a What-if storyline as they make way too many plotholes when you think about it. Now note, the original outline of Dark Empire was someone pretending to be Vader, just shift this idea to Palpatine was basically what Zahn did but left ot up to you to decide. If you don't like it that's fine, you just can chalk up Mara's comments to her not truly knowing Palpatine as well as she thought she did. So it's an unreliable narrator situation if you don't believe her, but Palpatine Reborn being the unreliable narrator if you do . As to Luke Skywalker failing the Academy... that's literally a plot point of the Jedi Academy trilogy. Luke failed to recognize the dangers on Yavin and nearly got defeated. His students had to save him. This isn't something Zahn is wrong about, it's the central theme of the story. I'm sorry but I think you took offense to what Zahn did and kinda closed your mind to listening as a result. He didn't retcon anything officially beyond the Lando/Mara romance. Everything else is up to your interpretation or just simply a fact you don't want to hear. As to Mara Jade being a mouthpiece. That's not entirely accurate either, as Luke Skywalker agreed with her as reluctantly as he was to admit it. So two characters were his mouth piece... but at least in regards to Jedi Academy and Luke's teachings, Zahn wasn't wrong either. Luke did fail his students, and they had to save him. Further using Luke's fall in Dark Empire to explain Luke's failure and being very out of character in Jedi Academy trilogy was actually a brilliant explanation.

[@zainredding3476]

Does she exist in cannon?

[@CouncilCape897]

Not at the moment

[@zainredding3476]

@@CouncilCape897 She should be. Talk about a bad ass woman.

[@wilhufftarkin8543]

@@zainredding3476 It wouldn't be Mara, it would be a different character with the same name.

[@zainredding3476]

@@wilhufftarkin8543 I want Mara Jade. I want the story of Luke and Mara Falling in love while they fight pirates and Thrawn. That should have been EP7 but oh well. Andor was great.

[@wilhufftarkin8543]

@@zainredding3476 But sadly, Canon Luke is a hobo loser who never got married. So a hypothetical Canon Mara would never be married to Luke and therefore she wouldn't be the same person we know and love. Heck, she wouldn't even be killed by Jacen. Nothing about her, except her name (and maybe looks, although there currently isn't any hot redhead in Hollywood who would be worthy of her role).

[@polyman6859]

I never actually pieced together that her horrible upbringing had been watered down.

[@Joseph-zf3su]

I have the same issues with how Dooku is portrayed in Tales of the Jedi vs The Clone Wars

[@theenchiladakid1866]

But we already know this, it's not a secret

[@rileymosman2808]

Orchard really is the absolute worst. Nice to see a subtle bit of solidarity

[@Maxwell03]

Is Timothy Zahn's wifu Mara Jade or Thrawn?

[@wilhufftarkin8543]

Thrawn of course.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

If The Owl House has Amity Blight, the SW Legends has Mara Jade. Anyhow, good take, Corey.

[@mara-jadecorbin4042]

I am named mara jade

[@falseprofit9801]

All of this makes me wish for someone to rehash the Luke Skywalker/Mara Jade from the 90s in a more graphic Sci-Fi world such as mass effect. I love the idea that they had a "meet cute" by crash-landing after a starfighter battle and having to work together, despite Mara's hatred, to make it out of the jungle alive. In that grittier universe, you could 100% spin this into an "enemies to fckbuddies" type relationship. Even take a dark comedy angle to it where it's pure bad luck that they keep ending up in danger together and that being conveniently located is the only thing that keeps this hypothetical on-again-off-again relationship alive.

[@willlauzon3744]

The one thing I can never forgive Zhan for is the amount of times he repeats things like "he set his jaw" or "clenching her teeth". He does this so many times I groan when I read it. He also uses "snarled" a lot.

[@WilliamAGould]

For the short answer. In the EU, before the Empire fell, Mar Jade was Palpatine's backup plan. If during ROTJ, Luke and Vade had both killed each other, she would have likely been Palpatine's new Sith apprentice. In a way, Ahsoka Tano and Mara Jade's lives mirror each other. Especially after the respective group they were with was destroyed. For Ahsoka the Jedi Order and Mara the Empire. With both afterward having to find their true place in the galaxy. On a side note, in seems both Luke and Leia inherited their mother's (Padme's) taste in dark, brooding individuals.

[@Kolonol1]

I hate seeing Ahsoka tied into characters in the EU....I think I just hate Ahsoka lol she still makes 0 sense

[@jonathanryan9946]

I've always felt had hypothetically we not gotten the Original Thrawn trilogy until after TCW series, Timothy Zahn would have played up part of Mara's role in the Empire to reminding Vader of Ahsoka and piss him off as a result. As his darkside mentality would see it was a weakness and remind him of why he shed that persona. Oh, look, this girl cares about her Stormtroopers. She's so emotionally weak, I can't believe I never noticed that about Ahsoka relying emotionally so much on Rex. Then Vader purposefully gets of Mara's Hand of Judgement Stormtrooper squad sent far away from her just to hurt her. While simultaneously Mara gets told stories by Palpatine about the great Anakin Skywalker who was his friend and like a son to him but died protecting him from the Jedi traitor Mace Windu. So we have Mara trying to emulate what little she knows about Anakin. Which Vader finds out about later and truly starts hating her, as Vader realizes Palpatine is setting her up to be the next him, should he die. This could also play into why Mara fails to kill Luke, he's the son of her hero. Worse Mara would be devastated when she finds out Vader was Anakin... and he hated her because she so looked up to who he was, which he saw as weakness. While also simultaneously explaining why Mara falls for Luke, he's actually everything Mara thought Anakin was and more. Heck at first Palpatine could be worried about Mara's fascination with Anakin Skywalker but soon realizes he can use Mara to tempt Luke away from Vader, then have Vader kill her to complete his fall and Allegiance to him... or even crazier hope Mara gets pregnant with Luke's kid and essence transfer into a baby Skywalker when he gets too old. As then he'd have both of them to protect him as he ages and gain the power of a Skywalker for himself. But yes, Timothy Zahn unknowingly gave Mara Jade has a lot of unknown parallels to both Ahsoka and Anakin. I'd honestly see Mara Jade as a good potential apprentice for Ahsoka if she and Luke hooked up in canon. That way Luke wouldn't be dating his student.

[@Kolonol1]

@@papapalps2415 wtf? You need to read up again...Mara is one of the top Jedi in the NJO....2nd only to Luke himself...not nearly strong enough? You died on the death star....sorry..

[@jonathanryan9946]

@@papapalps2415 actually that's not entirely true. Mara Jade has summoned force lightning and other top end force powers like statis. She was at least Jedi Council member strong, and would make an adequate temporary replacement should Vader fall. I think what's confusing you is Zahn doesn't actually like Jedi characters over using their force abilities. In his books it's even a cause of the original C'baoth's fall and other Dark Jedi. So he doesn't actually ever have Luke or Mara ever use anything close to their full potential. When in contrast other authors have had Mara Jade levitate across a canyon while shielding her body heat from sensors, using force lighting and status, plus fighting Jacen Solo and winning the lightsaber duel. Mara outside of Zahn's books mostly kept this philosophy, she didn't like force users who went to the limits of their abilities. Mara almost always held back, seeing relying on the forces power as causing one to not hear it's guidance. It's why she and Kyp fundamentally disagreed so much. However she absolutely was top tier in the NJO outside descendants of Anakin Skywalker and Kyp Durron himself. Heck, Mara Jade was tieing Kyle Katarn when she was his apprentice. She was truly one of the best outside the two groups. Now yes, she's no Skywalker by blood, Palpatine or Kyp Durron powerhouse... but she's good enough to be around Obi-wan, Dooku or Mace Windu tier. So she's an adequate temporary replacement. Further there's a lot of implications in Allegiance and Choices of One that Palpatine could use her like a puppet and empower her with his own abilities. So it's possible that is how she'd replace Vader one day. But anyways, VOSS PARCK, in Vision of the Future mentioned that Palpatine had big plans for Mara's future in the Empire. So yes, the implications that Mara had far more potential and was being groomed for a role was there.

[@Kolonol1]

@@papapalps2415 so you didn't read the material and like to degrade people....good to know. Jonathan is Literally Spot on...none of what he said is incorrect or inferences without proof or opinion...it's LITERALLY spelled out In The novels that you oh so clearly have not read...and clearly you don't understand the concept of echoes and such in the force....go try out KOTOR 2 and if you can actually understand the story (doubtful since you are displaying rudementary understandings of the rest of the material that's not as deep by far) you will understand why what you said is fundamentally wrong about the whole Palpatine puppet deal...Revan and Metra both exhibit examples of what happens if others or the force itself channel energy straight through you. And no, unlike in Disney Wars, Legends has very few examples of people who can conjure force lightning...most of the Jedi on the High council under Yoda could not conjure it. Yoda himself couldn't directly use force lightning. Mace and Plo Join I think are some of the only examples..it is rare and it demonstrates immense control and a very strong connection to the force. There are different kinds of "force lightning" but most are not directly called "force lightning" and are usually extremely weak. Take Jedi knight: Jedi Academy for example. Yes they called it force lightning in the game but force lightning doesn't just shock and immobilize what's getting hit, it can also levitate move and deform those affected...like what happened to Palpatine in the movie...Mara Jade could use very powerful force lightning when she focused... Notice apart from attacking your cognitive skills like you did to us for the record that I didn't have to cuss and degrade to get my point across...

[@JJJBunney001]

I really hate that you had to say you really like Zahn yet are critical of his works. I get it, thrawn Stan's are fucking scary but they should realise you can criticise things you love 🤣

[@iitim2152]

Heresy...

[@jayburn00]

In fate of the Jedi, they acknowledge some of her shadier side when they find her spirit in the same place as Jacen Solo's (Darth caedus) spirit. She even says she is there because of things she did that she is not proud of. I would not be surprised if she did things similar to disney's inferno squad. We also know she was supposed to assassinate Luke at Jabba's palace. I doubt that was the only time she was assigned to assassinate someone simply because they inconvenienced the emperor.

[@CoreysDatapad]

That was by different authors, who tend to not have the same hangups about Zahn's characters that he does

[@Chedring]

It seems like a trend to turn 'bad guy' characters good, like drive to redeem people like Mara and then Iden. So they add stuff later that they were manipulated. Either women can't be bad guys or popular characters (or who they thought would get popular like Iden) should turn good since it's bad to like the bad guys (even though Stormtroopers are the most popular thing in SW).

[@TheEnecca]

i think the video shows that its not a trend but was always the case. and its not just for women.

[@pwnorbepwned]

Zahn’s revisionist history about Mara is one of the parts of his handling of the character that I have a problem with, in the face of him otherwise being the best author for her, for obvious reasons. This was not the worst of it, though. That goes to the way he felt the need to retcon that she did not in fact sleep with Lando Calrissian 5~7-ish years before she and Luke were in a relationship. She even has a painfully awkward moment where she feels the need to explain this to Luke. They are both in their 30s at this point, and they’re acting like insecure high schoolers fretting about past boyfriends and “purity”. It’s just so…icky.

[@willlauzon3744]

I agree. I didn't like how she had the nerve to give Luke shit for "being in the shadow of the dark side" since dark Empire which was a dumb story and I hated it. Then he asks her if she wasn't under the dark side serving Palpatine and she was like "nope". They should have gotten together much sooner than they did. That being said I thought she was a good match for Luke though Zhan often wrote her like he fell in love with her and to hell with Luke. Even at the end of his first trilogy Mara killed both cbaoth and luuke Skywalker herself.

[@tremontefr5617]

wish disney made her cannon. Lucas never liked her and disney hates Luke.

[@histguy101]

Everyone wrote Mara Jade better than Zahn. She's insufferable in his books. Even in Survivor's Quest, she's like 40, and Zahn writes her as a still angsty teenager. Zahn sticks Luke into a silly stereotype as well, as the always calm goody-two-shoes who never curses, is never bold, no charisma. He's like Steve Rogers but even more vanilla. Aside from that, the Hand of Thrawn duology are two of the best books the post-rotj eu has to offer. The thrawn trilogy is good as well. And i liked the Scoundrels book

[@davidb9639]

Take it easy there, Rian.