The Tyranny of Mormon Patriarchal Blessings | Amanda & Shaye Scott

[@GreatScotts]

John and Margi, it was such a wonderful opportunity to be on the podcast! Your work has been a lifeline for us through our faith transition, and it was such a positive experience getting to know you. Grateful to call you friends!

[@sallyostling]

Thank you for sharing ☺️🐱😊

[@amazinmaven]

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm happy you are still here, Shaye, and learning to accept yourself. Amanda, it's clear you care so much for Shaye! ❤️

[@shannonwelsh5830]

❤

[@kylovangool]

Thank you so much for sharing. 🤗💙

[@AndrewSmithArt]

Thank you so so so so much for sharing this and “putting words to it.” as Margi said.

[@eastwest3286]

I cannot believe I just discovered this podcast. I am not a mormon or exmormon. I am of a different religion but not active. Really I only go to church once in a while as to not make my parents sad and get worry of me. I cannot wait to get more into these podcast when gong for a long drive.

[@Hipsresurfaced]

I'm fascinated by Amanda and Shaye's story, which brought me here to this podcast. I was raised French-Canadian catholic in Quebec City, which is so similar to living in Utah and being Mormon. I'm the eldest of five, my parents married young, and I was married to a man who was the 15th child in a 17-kid family, in a culture where (still today) women are considered little more than reproductive chattel. There was no birth control and the Church had absolute control over education and society. In school (girls only, owned by Catholic church, oldest convent in North American run by the Ursuline nuns), we used to kneel and pray for the poor protestant children who would all end up in hell. Thank you for this. And thank you Amanda and Shaye, for being YOU, openly and truthfully. Even though I left all this behind me, I realize how this impacted my life. Moral brainwashing and deception.

[@andreanairvin7724]

Shaye, Amanda I just wanted to say your new video brought me to tears. When I was having a super hard day emotionally your video came out and just the simple fact that your love has no conditions and I found that so moving so thank you.

[@desee7]

This story is so amazing. Hearing others Mormon stories has brought me so much peace. I left the church as a young teen but only learned about the secrets of the church about 2 years ago, it rocked my world. I was sick, couldn’t sleep or eat. I was terrified for my Mormon families, this podcast taught me peace through leaving and how to respect and have love for current members

[@Patricia-lts]

A week ago i came across their video telling about leaving Mormonism. There i heard for the first time the term "gender dysphoria". From there i google it but didn't understand the saparationn between sexuality and gender identity. Then in a few days i got their Mormon Stories notification. Today i fully understand what gender dysphoria means, and I'm really glad. Wish you all the bestfor this amazing family

[@andermal08]

Way to embrace new concepts/learning and seeking to truly understand how others are different and unique ☺️

[@davidparker9676]

Be careful not to leave one cult just to join another.

[@Patricia-lts]

@@davidparker9676 never been in any

[@srso4660]

I'm proud to be your big sister, Shaye. And I'm honored to have you as my SIL Amanda. You’re such an amazing and beautiful couple! I love you guys so much!! ❤

[@shannonwelsh5830]

❤

[@michellecd4722]

@SRSO What beautiful souls they are

[@biekevanriel5231]

💓

[@maryritter141]

So Amazing!

[@The_One_and_Only996]

I hope your whole family has embraced this great couple❤️

[@kylovangool]

Thank you sooo much for this episode. As a trans man who only just came out a couple of years ago and started transitioning in my late 30s this really resonated with me. I appreciate Amanda and Shaye sharing their story, as it is stories such as theirs that will help so many see the humanity and realness of us gender diverse/trans folks. Thank you for using your platform for this topic and their story, John. And Margi’s insights and gentle wisdom were especially crucial in this episode. Much love. 💙

[@karenshields395]

I so resonate with Amanda. Oldest child, empathic and people pleasing. I was a high achieving in a family with an alcoholic father, who felt responsible for keeping my family together. I joined the Church at 19. That ,too, had high expectations for me. I was baptized with my husband-to-be. Long story short, my husband didn't get the priesthood, became an alcoholic also. I became a psychiatric nurse ( wounded caregiver) who went on to try to save everyone else. After raising my children in the Church, I gradually fell away as nurses work on Sundays and not fitting into the LDS pattern and feeling alone. I harbor no ill will toward the Church, It gave me stability in my child rearing years. I remain in the membership, but I no longer have a testimony. I am 81 now, still suffer from depression under control. I am old enough to have worked out my my life to a place where I take care of myself, content in knowing I can't fix the rest of the the world. I have lived a life of service and feel I have lived a good life in spite of the chaos that has been my lot. I enjoy your podcast and I continue to learn and grow.

[@smileysun9212]

I feel for anyone dealing with depression & I’ve gone through it myself. The Lord loves you good Sister & knows your heart. I left the Church when I was 16 because I had no testimony. I was being dragged along with my parents testimonies & I never had a spiritual experience. After High School I had severe depression where I was in an out of Mental Hospitals. 20yrs after leaving the Church I about ended someone’s life. I hated how I felt & was scared charges would be placed against me. I didn’t know what to do & if there is a God I needed Him now. I took a dusty BoM off the shelf & I prayed. After I prayed the BoM was opened & there highlighted was 3rd Nephi 11:29-30. If was as if the Lord was speaking to me telling me I have the spirit of contention from the devil & such things should be done away. After I read away I felt the hand of the Lord remove all that anger from me. There was no charges on me & I went back to Church. It wasn’t easy going back but I started receiving all kinds of blessings. I listened to Elder Holland to pray for the right help & the Holy Ghost put a thought in my mind that I needed to get off depression meds. I told my Dr & even the Bishop but no one believed me. I fasted & prayed if I needed to get off meds. I strongly felt it was right & the Lord helped me get off of them. I found out I’m allergic to most meds & they make me violent. My Therapists was confusing me & I would take their council turning it into a Gospel Principal I understood. My one Therapist is a member of the Church & I would teach him. He told me I’m right but couldn’t teach me that in a Government funded facility. I stopped seeing Therapists & I learned how to council with the Lord. “The Lord is my Therapist & His Gospel are my Meds.” I start with a prayer to help me figure out my troubles & I start searching Scriptures/Liahona to read that could help me. Then I start writing in a note book & I’m amazed what I’ve written. I know it came from the Lord & it’s like a talk I could give in Church but it’s for me. I got my Patriarchal Blessing & I was amazed what it said because the Lord is the only one who would know me. It is my Liahona & the Lord took my Patriarchal Blessing away from me once because I was upset & wanted answers. I had a thought that I needed to pray before getting it back. I asked for forgiveness & softened my heart. I went back to the spot I kept my Patriarchal Blessing & it was back. I wanted to know if this girl I was dating was the right one. She came into my life when I was trying to go to the Temple. The Lord warned me about her & I wouldn’t listen. She was pulling me away from the Church & I got arrested. I prayed to not go to Prison & the Lord saved me. I prayed before facing the Judge & a thought come to me what the Judge would say to me. I thought that was wishful thinking but it came to be. There was a lot of witnesses in the court room to witness the miracle. The Judge lowered his head & for some reason he couldn’t get himself to send me to Prison. That literally saved my life & helped me get out a horrible relationship. I did make it to the Temple & had spiritual experiences there. I’m still not married & 50yrs old. Life hasn’t been fair to me & I still have my struggles but it’s a lot easier to bare when I’m faithful to the Lord & follow him. I go to Church every Sunday to keep the adversary at bay. He is real & has put roadblocks in my way. I don’t do well when I skip taking the Sacrament & it’s fuel for my spirit. I even read Scriptures everyday that brings pease to my mind to fight off evil thoughts. What has also helped me is the Churches free classes of Self-Reliance Emotional Resilience. I took a Self-Reliance class with a nonmember friend for Find a Better Job. He was blessed with a new job & I started thinking they need one for depression. I took the first class when it came out & meet a wonderful friend there. We been friends for about 5yrs & he checks up on me every Sunday. What a blessing to feel loved & have someone to talk to. I also attend Singles activities for 46+ that also blesses me. Who knows if I’ll find a Wife but I know the Lord wants me there. I know the Lord Loves us & is there for all who open the door for Him. I have a strong testimony & I will always follow Him. In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.

[@melodymadison-np9yv]

You are not alone sister! I appreciate your sharing.

[@outwardbound2241]

Looking forward to this Mormon story in particular. I suggested the Scotts a couple of weeks ago after their beautiful video came out. I feel their story will be helpful to many people. And just judging from their video, they are very gracious and articulate about it.

[@mikeninjitsu4665]

What video of theirs are you referring to? TIA

[@outwardbound2241]

@@mikeninjitsu4665 it's called: why we left the Mormon church: A coming out story" by the channel "Great Scotts"

[@embro2.0]

“What is sacred for some people, is traumatic for others.” -Shaye Scott

[@rlbrown1009]

As I listen your sweet stories remind me that we are all so unique. I think one of the most important part in loving others is to see them as they are. You two seem to be doing a wonderful job. Thankyou for sharing.

[@shannonwelsh5830]

Thank You to the Scott's for sharing their journey❤

[@zxy78267]

As a mom of more than one child who is part of the LGBTQIA community, this is pretty heartbreaking. When our first two children were very small, we went out of state to visit my husband's cousin. He explained to us than when he was about 18 years old, he ran his car into the concrete support for an overpass. I cried so hard for him, for that 18 year old he was then who couldn't come out because his mom was an extremely devout Catholic. After we'd gone to bed, I told my husband that we would make sure that our children always knew that we would accept them for who they are, no matter what. And that turned out to be a really good thing, because depression seems to run his family, and possibly mine (I'm adopted so I wouldn't know.) Our kids have told us that if they hadn't known that we would accept them, they might have ended their lives. My worst fear has never been having a gay, trans, non-binary, or whatever kind of child; it has always been that I would lose my child. Parents who are anti LGBTQIA really need to look at that baby, toddler, child, pre-teen, and teenager, or even their adult child, and ask themselves, would you rather have a gay child, or lose that child? For us, it was an instantaneous decision. I hope your conversation has prompted someone to hand a lifeline to their child, a friend, a relative, whoever needs it. Thank-you for your bravery in speaking about your experience. There may be someone who watches your story and realizes that there is support, and there are so many possibilities for their life. Much love to you both. 💗🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈 By the way, we are still people of faith. My husband was raised Catholic, but not much. I was raised in a very strict Baptist home. We chose a very liberal Methodist Church that accepts everyone. (Kind of the way Jesus did...I really wish some Christians would remember that.) 🙂

[@TheHawaiianlover]

Amanda is serving real Morticia Addams vibes and I’m loving it💁🏻‍♀️

[@namtellectjoonal7230]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that association xD

[@joni5243]

She is mourning..:(

[@ROSITALJ]

She is beautiful

[@ClaireCopeland-n6y]

Oh I always got this with black long hair. What the hell is wrong with people ? Why don't they yell Barbie at every blonde they see? Yes she is lovely. I always got Elvira or Morticia but personally I think they look pretty good😊

[@lyndadickerson7014]

When I was a student at BYU, I had a job typing patriarchal blessings. The Patriarch would record the blessing on a cassette tape and I would transcribe it. After typing a few of these, I noticed they were all the same - word for word. I wondered to myself, why does he bother to give individual blessings when they're all the same? And why do I have to bother typing them out individually? Why not save some time and just add the person's name at top of the pre-written blessing? I felt sorry for the people who thought they were getting something special and unique. Then I reflected back on my own patriarchal blessing and how special I thought it was, and now I knew it was probably just a carbon copy of what everyone else got from that same guy.

[@shmataboro8634]

My patriarchal blessing was definitely special and unique. It told me I should take courses in school that would help me serve others. It told me to get married in the temple and make nice LDS babies, and then eventually die and go to heaven where I would get to serve others some more and also make some more babies. Clearly the voice of God Almighty speaking through a sacred octogenarian just for me ❤

[@davidparker9676]

I read the blessings of mom and dad. I was laughing and angry at the same time how they were basically the same. I call them Mormon horoscopes; intentionally vague and universal platitudes. The older I get, the more ridiculous this whole religion origin story is.

[@tsnow5445]

Question? Isn't the Patriarchal Blessing much like the new name? The same in that as I understand it, every female who receives a new name in the Temple are all the same on any given day?

[@davidparker9676]

@@shmataboro8634 I didn't remember anything from mine but I felt it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo at the time. My mom told me I should request a transcript to refer back to throughout my life to show how accurate it was. I remember the televangelist looking octogenarian couple's hairdos and watching the cassette recorder. Such a weird childhood that I can't relate to normal people as much as I should. I guess being raised in a cult has some lasting consequences.

[@lyndadickerson7014]

@@tsnow5445 I think it's about the overall lack of creativity and individuality. When you're a bee in a hive, does your name or purpose really matter?

[@Liz-7711]

Beautiful people. Beautiful story. Thank you for sharing your story! Excited for part 2

[@AConundrumsTail]

Thank you for your transparency and honesty. I absolutely loved your video and it resonated deeply for me. I was bawling like a baby at the end. It was beautiful, really. Leaving after being a temple endowed member was EXTREMELY overwhelming because of the fear from our prior beliefs that we were doing that which only the greatest sinners would do. Yet love has been and remains the focus of my purpose in life. I never felt I was enough. In fact many made sure I knew that. And it’s extremely painful when your heart truly wants to do what is good and right. Much love to you and yours. Please know that you are making a positive difference for many in sharing your story.

[@sydnismith9796]

Margi is truly one of the most kind, gentle, wise, and loving spirits. I love when she is on the podcast

[@Secular-Serenity]

I love this couple. I also resonate with Amanda’s people pleasing even when risk of harm could be involved. I look at as it’s in my DNA because at 68 I’m still there.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

And, seriously, what a beautiful couple! ❤️❤️❤️

[@kkheflin3]

As an ex-Mormon who spent 38 years in the church I've noticed how patriarchal blessings have changed over the past decades. In the 1970s when I had mine it was rather generic. I was terribly disappointed!! My mother's in the 1930s, however, was oddly specific. "She would marry an RM in the temple of course who had served his mission in the lands of Nephi." Of course my dad never got to serve a mission at all because of the Korean War. So that never happened. Her sister was promised "marriage in the Hawaii temple." (She lived in New York). Didn't happen. She never married at all. My mother's brother in the 1930's received his patriarchal blessing also. It went on and on about how he would "marry a noble woman who would save his life at one time." He was gay..It must have been more than difficult for him to be gay at that time. He never came out to my grandparents. He never married but had a life partner through most of his adult life and was very happy. He left the church. They were ALL told that they would be alive when Christ returned at Armageddon. My 95 year old mother passed away on New Year's Day this year believing up until the end that she would live to see Armageddon. think for the most part the church has quit being so specific because of blowback. Now that channels such as Mormon Stories are dissecting ex-members' patriarchal blessings the church looks ridiculous. "Mormon fortune-telling" is correct. Most of what they say is inaccurate at best and a total fake at worst.

[@Objection_23and1]

I found Amanda and Shaye’s channel like a week ago and since then I have been getting recommended detransitioning videos and man is it so sad and extremely interesting I never would have watched any of these videos prior to seeing there channel…there was this one man( who was Mormon and grew up in a Mormon family ) who transitioned to female then had gender reassignment surgery at 37 and then realized after he made a huge mistake and now he deals with all these problems. I just hope and pray Shaye truly deeply understands there is no going back from that… I don’t know I just became so sad hearing this man’s story and then finding Shaye I thought I have no idea who they are but to hear how he got all these surgery’s and still never felt happy as he thought he would was truly heartbreaking 😭

[@sophiedawson3276]

Absolutely loved this episode!! As a trans women who left the church, these kind of stories mean a lot to me

[@jessicabezzant2544]

I just watched their video yesterday and it was so beautiful! I'm excited to hear from them.

[@watchdog8058]

powerful interview!

[@eligraves5132]

Totally epic! Great stuff guys. You guys are crushing it.

[@erintucker934]

Thank you Amanda and Shaye for sharing this. I loved it and it was so comforting ❤

[@liseklerekoper2441]

Love that Margi brought up the people pleasing & perfectionism issues that a huge # of Mormon & ex-Mormon women seem to struggle with. The patriarchal focus of the religion almost guarantees that Mormon women will develop codependency starting in childhood. So much of the focus for girls & women in the Mormon religion seems to be on preparing to have children & be a housewife, & basically making sure everyone else’s needs are being met First & sometimes at the expense of their own … but not even realizing that they actually have any unmet needs. It’s no wonder that codependency develops early on with that over sense of responsibility for everybody and everything.

[@mauriciocarmona7049]

Even though I'm not a practicing mormon anymore, my patriarchal blessing that I got over 30 years ago said I would work with God's children of the Americas. This really jumped out at me as I was only 19 at the time, and I always understood that to be that I would work with indigenous people. Now, over 30 years of not being a member I find myself working as a teacher in all indigenous communities. I often think of the coincidence, as I'm in really isolated communities that one does not simply land these jobs easily, and I wonder if there was a touch of prophecy in that blessing.

[@jcocaf]

Coincidence 😊

[@mr_ekshun]

Excited for this one! Since leaving the Church in early 2022 I haven't dug into patriarchal blessings yet but it's been on my list since mine meant a lot to me for years after I got it. As somebody who has always been hungry to understand myself and the world around me, I was excited to get my blessing, thinking it would give me real answers as to who I am (and was in the premortal existence). I was slightly disappointed when it didn't really do much of any of that, but I still clung to it very hard and tried to wring every last bit of meaning out of it that I could. In hindsight, I'd say it felt a bit more akin to a wishy-washy horoscope about things that may or may not happen later in my life or that may/may not be important to try doing, but I obviously wouldn't have framed it as such back then. Having now being convinced against any form of supernatural meaning behind them, I'm really curious to learn more about the nature and history of patriarchal blessings behind the scenes, as well as others' experiences with them (as, of course, discussing these blessings with others is very taboo, if you're a believer).

[@davidparker9676]

Since you left the church so recently, keep yourself grounded and take care of yourself. You will have a range of feelings. A lot of ex-mormons get black-pilled and go down a self destructive path. You have been traumatized by the church and the deception and manipulation can mess you up on your road to recovery and getting back into a healthy state of mind is important.

[@wednesdaywilloww]

amanda was my humanities professor and she’s so amazing! i miss her class! it’s so nice to hear her perspectives again!

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you, again. Watching from Alaska.

[@geab.2182]

It's great when you say the date at the beginning 👌🏻

[@JudeNance]

My Patriarchal Blessing is 2 pages long. I'm supposed to be able to be able to cast out demons, heal people, etc. I told the Bishop that I am not able to do any of those things. Pray about it was the advice.

[@ebie1995]

My husband's patriarchal blessing said he would raise people from the dead. Safe to say it completely freaked him out and he refused to even read it for years.

[@beanj580]

So they imply people can literally be as powerful as Jesus Christ himself?

[@jakeolthof]

My blessing says my calling and election is sure. Church leaders now call the cops on me if I try to attend meetings.

[@shatteredmormon5005]

Shaye's experience with gender disforia in the church mirrors mine so perfectly! I am not so bold as to have told my wife or had a discussion with my parents. But this episode is so meaningful to me. To know I'm not alone in this. More specifically to see someone who's gender disforia seems to match my own so well. There is not a single day where the intrusive thoughts are not there. Sharing your experience has given me a lot to reflect on. Can we get resources for therapists who specialize in post mormon gender disforia in the resources for this video please?

[@GreatScotts]

Amanda here ☺️ If you do an internet search for therapists who specialize in gender identity in your area, this could be of tremendous help. There are many resources as well as a community of people who understand and want to support you. Sending you love!

[@sarab8332]

Try watching KZbin videos by DR Z PHD, She does a lot of videos on gender dysphoria. Her videos helped me when i came out to my wife. Coming out to our wife's as transgender can be scary, but find ways to over come that fear. Find yourself a gender therapist in your area and be honest with them. I wish you the best.

[@michellecd4722]

@Shattered Mormon So much of the "dysphoria" is because, to be honest, as a culture we never knew we had options, never knew there was a spectrum. As a former psychotherapist, my current feeling is that this is about something even deeper, an evolutionary aspect of us as humans, spiritual beings & the needs of the soul differ greatly from the needs of the "Ego". There's a continuum of descriptors. I suggest you do more research & learn about all the gray areas & you may learn even more about what resonates with you. No matter what, just know you're perfect just the way you are and seek out healthy support

[@shatteredmormon5005]

Thank you all for your kind words and recommendations. This podcast + time ate at me and drove me to tell her. It was like a strange compulsion. But telling her went so well! I am definitely one of the lucky ones! Thank you for helping me have the courage to be a bit more authentic in my life.

[@CaliMel184]

@@shatteredmormon5005 This is way later after you posted but I hope you are doing well.

[@jamesricks]

“Holding my breath my whole life, and for the first time in my life I could breathe freely”

[@cclose8007]

Thank you!

[@AaronJuddMusic]

AMANDA FREAKING SCOTT! So glad you got free too!

[@larrygates2438]

Thank you for this podcast. The topic is so new but oh so important. A huge Thank You to Shaye and Amanda for sharing their stories and also to John and Margi for the sensitive and intelligent way you handled the topic. As a gay man who came out in the late 80s, there is some familiarity with the struggle to help people understand these complex and very personal topics. I applaud the bravery. Hopefully, the world will become a better, more inclusive place by sharing our stories.

[@ccculbertson1]

I am so proud to be your Aunt…. I love you both more than anything..

[@seaswept7]

The patriarchal blessing was wonderful until i got older and knew that it absolutely wasn’t coming true. Then it was torture. I left the church and years later, i read it and honestly it was like a curse. Absolutely the opposite of everything was what happened in my life. Of course they will blame me for leaving and not keeping the faith 🙄 but i had faith still when it was absolutely not happening.

[@AubreyJM]

Aw, Shaye...I didn't know you were such a sweet soul. ((hug))

[@marcellacruser951]

"We lose something from not feeling like we can have a fully human, embodied experience." Margi, that... IDK how many spots that settles into. This interview has given me a lot to think about. My thanks to all four of you.

[@justamom863]

When Margi talks, I feel like we are in a therapy session together. She explains emotions and processes so well. It's like their are light bulbs going off everytime she speaks.

[@jessasmith2349]

This video is kind of unlocking the idea in me that I struggle so much as an adult now to enjoy literally any hobbies or personality traits that I had growing up because I wasn't doing any of those hobbies and very few of those traits were for me. They were always so performative for others in the church. I received acceptance and praise when I developed my skills, hobbies, and talents and showcased them for the church. Now that I no longer have any support or validation from the church, I'm left as an adult floundering in my own existence. I have never learned how to enjoy anything for my own self and my own experience. Now I'm relearning how to exists outside of perfectionism and a desperate need for external validation. It feels really lonely, actually. I don't know why that's surprising for me.

[@ScottBub]

So sorry that you are experiencing this Jessa. I struggled a lot and still do finding what I like to do for myself. Just know you aren’t alone!

[@virginianielsen3480]

This comment pretty much sums up my life 😅

[@amazinmaven]

It's a struggle at first, but once you start finding things, it gets to be more fun. I didn't enjoy learning about things like canning in Young Women as a domestic responsibility I "should" do for my future family, but as my own person, it's a much more interesting idea to me when it's centered around healthy eating, sustainability, independence, saving money, and feeling accomplished. WAY better reasons! (I'm still not doing this, but the IDEA if it has changed for me 😂.) I hope you start unlocking your joy and satisfaction soon. Wanna know the first thing I remember doing as an adult that I did just for enjoyment and was proud of finishing? ... Coloring a page in a coloring book. 😂 I literally mailed my parents my coloring and laughingly asked them to put it on their fridge "like old times."

[@fabulous_finn7810]

I fully understand and want to let you know how you feel is not "wrong". Playing piano was a curse, and being played in leadership positions eventually made me disassociate from working/managing aspects of my own life once I left. However, there is light at the end of the tunnel, to harp on a cliche. Jessa you are not alone in how you are experiencing life post-Mormonism, and it sucks, but by even making the comment you are growing! Keep on keeping on friend, I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to comment here and I hope you find things you can enjoy.

[@jessasmith2349]

@@fabulous_finn7810 This is honestly so so validating. I removed my records almost a year ago, but it's taking so long for my brain to unlearn all of the toxic thought patterns. I recently fell into the deepest depression I've ever experienced. I think it's because I'm just coming out of the mission mindset of needing to be at 100% productivity output all the time. Now I literally consider it a win in my day if I eat anything and a huge win if I brush my teeth. I'm sure it's temporary, but I just want to sleep for 80,000 years. Thank you for sharing. I forgot how good it feel to have people that get it. I'm just now learning how alone I've been feeling... Thank you.

[@tamidawn8383]

Thank you all for this episode. Very real and raw …and I needed to hear it.

[@sallyshields6553]

Agree Shae and Amanda are so articulate and mature and wise.. what brave people they are. Their children are so blessed to have them for parents. Appreciate so much you guys being on!

[@matthewakian2]

I saw the documentary these guys made yesterday. Very striking and emotive.

[@yooperskeptic]

Every time I watch a new Mormon Stories, I think "that's the best one yet." Then I watch another, and think "wait, that was even better..." ;-) But this was outstanding in so many ways. This goes beyond the Mormon-specific experience to issues of gender dysphoria and presentation, in a way that left me feeling humbled at their strength, in admiration of their vulnerability, and with an improved understanding of the issue. And I'm so grateful that we live in times where people are increasingly able to present their real selves.

[@daylestevens50]

OMG I relate so much to her story…enmeshed, empath, people pleaser, etc. it’s exhausting!! Lol. This is very helpful and I still need to finish this episode!

[@Mirandaa.hope4]

I am also from St. George! I loved this story so much. I left the church when I was 16 after my mother passed. Me and my older sister were the first to leave in our family.. St. George’s wards are very tough on their youth members especially when they ask questions while going through grief. Not only was I judged for piercings and short dresses but i truly believe my ward was traumatizing to me after my mother passed especially at 16. The bishops and leaders and peers from my ward are another story😅 I’m still learning more about the church through your podcast and I’m so happy to hear others stories! Thank you for sharing❤

[@amechealle5918]

I was raised Mormon (my mom joined when I was 5 years old) when I was growing up in the cult I was told girls didn’t need to go to college because they would be married and starting a family by then. This infuriated my Grandfather who had 6 degrees ranging from Chemical engineer to paleontologist (ha has a Dinosaur named after him that he found on a dig while in college) he told my mom everyone should be educated as much as they want to be so they can make educated life choices. Needless to say mom refused to encourage education and when I came of age she told me I was meant to be with a guy who ended up being abusive (physically,emotionally and financially, he took my paycheck and didn’t take care of bills while he didn’t work, when I became pregnant I was still working and my bosses started making sure I ate breakfast and lunch at work and I would eat a lite dinner on the bus. I finally left him but had NOTHING to fall back on. It really made me wish my mom had let me move in with my grandparents when she remarried and started a new family. Things would have been much better. Left the church at 19 but was harassed by my mom until she passed in Jan.

[@katsmith2343]

I am sad to say that this is a story I have heard many times. I am sorry you had to endure that.

[@amazinmaven]

I'm so sorry!

[@shannonwelsh5830]

❤

[@hbendzulla8213]

Sorry what you had to go through.

[@mr_ekshun]

If you don't mind me asking, what's your grandfather's name? You can absolutely decline to answer for privacy's sake, I understand. He sounds a bit like the few stories I've heard about my own great grandfather.

[@amazinmaven]

Purity culture made me so terrified of sexual assault that OUTSIDE of what my community would think or how they'd react, I personally thought I'd prefer NOT to survive an assault because I didn't think I could possibly get over it. I "knew" in my heart I'd be "irreparably damaged" and I was certain life would lose most of its meaning and I'd struggle to find and maintain true happiness. It was that bad. I honestly think that indoctrination/thinking compounds the trauma of such an experience, making it MORE likely that it would be so mentally/emotionally challenging. When you know your life and worth is NOT tied to sexual purity, you're set up for better survival and better coping skills than if you think you're better off dead.

[@signespencer6887]

This is so so true. Speaking as a non-Mormon rape survivor, yes, if your self-worth is tied to sexual ‘purity’, it would be even more devastating and traumatic than it was for me. And I have, indeed, survived and thrived, but it took a long time.

[@christopher3d475]

I always love it when Margie is part of show.

[@amybakescake]

It's really interesting to hear this. My siblings got their patriarchal blessings in St George, and I didn't. They lived in Bloomington. They had very long, very detailed blessings. I did not. My brother's blessing said he would be a "Watchman on the tower". 🤔🤨

[@heatherhammersmith8997]

"Pioneer LARPing" LMFAO

[@elainegould9908]

I came from a large Lutheran family. 7 of us kids with wonderful parents who simply loved kids. So I had 6 kids because having lots of siblings was very enjoyable. I feel very blessed with it. At the same time, I completely agree that it's a choice... not everyone needs a large family.

[@BirdNerdJC]

1:20:06 i really love margies commentary in here. Thank you.

[@raquelfoster4751]

I can't understand how people get brainwashed so easily with any doctrine from any church. Being good, charitable generous and compassionate only take good patents and self analysis.

[@heathermcdougall8023]

Anyone else form the Kimball days told they were going to be "A mother in Zion"?

[@kkheflin3]

Yep! I grew up in the 60's and 70's under Kimball's reign and this was very common! "Mother in Zion" indeed. Also, that horrible book Spencer W Kimball wrote called "Miracle of Forgiveness" messed up a whole generation of young Mormons.

[@BG-ig6fd]

John: “Performance equals worth.” - This hit me like a ton of bricks. I still struggle with performance anxiety and identity around performing, in my 50s. I thought that a few incidents growing up (and lack of psychology on the part of my mom and music teacher) might have been the cause. But are you saying it is a natural thing that happens to people ?

[@leezanewill-codrington7731]

I do believe this is a psychological issue steeped in whatever the young person internalise about his/her social surroundings and upbringing!!

[@dead_computer]

Hi, this is a very refreshing video. I love getting down to the root of things as a human being. The first thing that comes to my mind as someone who has had trauma in life as a young kid, I noticed the grip of fear, that can stem from something deeper then, a “gender” issue, I feel like it’s a “symptom “ of not being able to be a kid without having indoctrinated. And that can install fear . In my little opinion it’s not gender problems, as much as a deep fear of being in a box. I understand this deeply. I feel like everyone is talking about your so called “symptoms” not the deeper root. You actually said it here. “Your identity” has been handed to you in a box, I can’t imagine what that does to a young child. Indoctrination is a real thing. Thanks for being vulnerable and open to speak up about this. I for one appreciate the video. Thank you.

[@stephiedawn04]

I’m so grateful to Shaye and Amanda for sharing their experience. Their personal video was literally what gave me the strength to finally look into church history and it took a single video (Mormon Stories/LDS Discussions episode about Joseph Smiths proposals) to fully change my perspective and enlighten me. Of course, I also felt a sort of connection to Shaye and Amanda, since my husband has also come out as trans. ❤❤❤ Thank you Margi, John, Shaye, and Amanda.

[@awilk07]

1:24:51 my parents especially my dad really reinforced the thought that men were these monsters that couldn't control themselves and that's why it was so important for me to be modest/pure etc. i also think that's why i have a fear of men (along with patriarchy)

[@Robynsonfire]

Margi is amazing she brings so much to the dynamic of your interviews.

[@yooperskeptic]

I love the way Margi speaks, the care she takes with everything she says, and the warmth she radiates.

[@LoudLeo3]

My heart. ❤. This hit me soooo hard I could cry. I so deeply connect with the way your church hurt you Shay. Such a parallel story to my own. Thank you for sharing

[@Boi33-mc4hs]

Amanda looks like a beautiful Snow White Princess 👑 🌺 🦋

[@jacobopstad5483]

Mine was a very cookie-cutter, bare-bones blessing, thankfully. If it had been more specific, I would most certainly have tried to follow the counsels in it. Now, I see them not only as a huge potential for bad advice but also I think about the cultural/ethnic ramifications of telling people what tribe they are in. This is especially interesting now as my daughter is going through the steps to get her patriarchal blessing. Her mom is, of course, filling her head with ideas about it while I just see it as baseless and no more authoritative than a psychic reading. I am unsure about how to react to it all because I know if I just come out and say what I really think, the two of them are just going to gang up against (as they do with everything else church-related) but I really want her to realize that she doesn't have to take it seriously because I know it how much it can affect people's decisions. She's been talking about going on a mission and I remember how awful my mission experience was and how it led me to make other bad decisions. I don't want that for her. It's even more awkward now because my wife has some health issues and is talking about me going with our daughter to get the blessing.

[@kerrypapworth1526]

I have always loved you guys and now I love you even more for having the courage to speak up. You will no doubt help lots of others who are suffering like you did Shaye. I feel great sadness for what you have gone though and I send much love to you both and your gorgeous kids. 💕💕

[@westieweardogkilts9715]

Thank you so so so much for this video. My eldest identifies as trans but won't talk in depth to us so we've been wanting to support but not understanding enough. There is a transgender movement that is moving so fast that we can't catch up with it and the loudest voices seem aggressive and not prepared to have a conversation that is two sided, so THIS discussion is very helpful and I understand so much more now. I'm looking forward to Part 2.

[@DoctorJoanieTool]

Just found this Mormon Stories channel because I follow ‘Great Scotts’ with Amanda and Shaye. Interesting to see this from 5/6 months ago … as the discussion about preferred pronouns has changed some. Their most recent video just a week or two ago; really went into much more concrete detail about Shaye’s transition to female. Amanda now uses she/her pronouns for Shaye and Shaye is clear that for her mental health, it’s important not to get hung up on the pronouns that OTHERS choose to use … because that is their own hang ups they have to handle in their own way. But it seems very clear that Shaye feels herself to clearly be female. having begun the transition with hormones, hair transplants, beard removal, FFS (which I believe is soon to happen but hasn’t yet). In their video it’s pretty clear that all of it is a hard and painful road even though it is also a very beautiful and powerful transition into who Shaye truly is as a human being … I so wish society would accept all people exactly as they are. Thank you to this channel for providing a place for people to continue to heal. To give a platform to for these life experiences … which may save the lives of other ‘10 yr old Shayes’ …. before they take their own lives.

[@kristiemansfield]

2:41:00 is profound and why the anti trans radfem movement let by @jkrowling as of late, is so disgustingly anti feminist and horrible. Thank you for this.

[@FieroGroos]

Excellent topic, great show! Thank you!

[@maryhazlett]

As I write I'm halfway through this podcast, Shaye's story. I can't help - as a non-Morman - but wonder that if a Patriarchal Blessing doesn't come true it's the receiver's fault, is it your sister's fault that she didn't die young? Also, I don't have gender dysphoria. But I've experienced to some degree the emotions you felt. I was bullied all through [catholic] school and then my work environment. Felt i was a failure in something everyone else could "do", and that failure meant I was stupid. My failure was in relationships. I tried to change dozens of times to become "likeable", and nothing worked. I believed I wasn't worth loving. To be loved, I needed to become someone else, and was too stupid to find out who that would be. In and of myself, I was not worth loving. I'm now 65. I found out 1.5 years ago that I have asperger's and a main characteristic is trouble in relationships. There's a certain relief because I don't feel I'm a failure - there's a reason I can't do relationships successfully. The pain remains but I now "have the language". So, us non-Mormans can relate to the emotions you've experienced.

[@outwardbound2241]

I'm so glad you chose to go on Mormon stories. I'm convinced your journey is going to help and give hope to so many people. It must take a ton of courage to go from a life of hiding your true self to talk about it so publicly. Listening to your story it once again made me so mad that many people feel entitled to judging who other people are. How does it really affect you who other people love? How other people feel? How other people choose to dress? And since it obviously doesn't affect you: why does it bother you so much? It just feels like such a waste of life for people like Shaye to have to pretend to be someone they actually aren't, basically just to please society/societal expectations, while dying inside. It's so unfair and it makes me sad and angry at the same time. And people still thinking it's a choice to be anywhere on the queer spectrum is just utterly ridiculous. Listening to Shaye, who would choose this amount of suffering for bascially nothing (meaning he wasn't able to show up as the female he felt he was/is)? Being cis and hetero, I obviously can't know how it must have been for Shaye to live with this inner turmoil for all of his life. I might be able to relate to him in another way though. I was diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum in my early twenties and the diagnosis came as such a huge relief. All my life I just felt like being so wrong, mainly because people were reflecting that to me. I wasn't living up to the expectations people had of a "normal" child and I was trying my very hardest to be the person they thought I should be, while kinda knowing inside that I could never be that, no matter how hard I tried. I learned early on that who I felt I was, was not ok. The way I felt about things was not ok. I am incredibly untalented at acting, but I became the best actress in life, pretending to be "normal" while there was a war raging inside of me. Trying to ignore all my feelings in order to fulfill expectations. I hope from now on forward you, Shaye, can allow yourself to listen to your feelings and just be who you really are. Wishing all the best to both of you and just hope that people will shower you with the love you deserve.

[@selfimprovement.1925]

All of these episodes do for me is confirm that the LDS church is perfect for me. I never knew Jesus until I learn the gospel. What is good for one person is not for another. That’s why there are so many churches. Also, when the early Christian were compiling which books would be in the bible and which ones wouldn’t they let they times they lived in help chose for them. There’s a book that actually talks about a heavenly mother but of course men couldn’t let women think they are on the same level as they are. Many of the scripture were rewritten to go along with the times they lived in. So thank you for these episodes cause they help to reassure me that the LDS church is complete gospel.

[@maddexq9107]

Margi is a skilled interviewer. Her questions are interesting and the lead the person being interviewed out and allows them to tell their story. John, appreciate you and what you’ve done with Mormon Stories. You are interrupting less which makes it more enjoyable to listen to your interviewing. Thanks for taking that feedback from us listeners.

[@janetsanford1611]

i loved hearing your stories, and the shame part of it really hit home with me. I too suffer from shame so intensely that it was like a physical pain and often led to self-harm and suicidal thoughts. . I never knew my identity because as you said we are just told who we are. I'm in my 40's and now just finally becoming authentic and learning to love myself.

[@sarab8332]

Lovely couple, wish them the best. When Shaye got emotional, you could clearly see the pain and his suffering.

[@biekevanriel5231]

everthing is nice, be kind to people, that is what they say in church,until you are "not"normal sad very sad,thank u for sharing this story Shaye &Amanda,sending so much love🥰

[@AndrewSmithArt]

If you haven’t heard of or seen the comedian Eddie Izzard, you should.

[@katietomlin253]

Such a beautiful story and beautiful family. Males have it so hard. If a female is more masculine she is labeled a tomboy and it’s more accepted. More feminine males are not accepted the double standard is not fair.

[@jadynhicks5570]

Loved Margi checking for pronouns, I’m always so happy when she is on the episodes.

[@kylovangool]

I agree!

[@dhurban]

Checking for pronouns. Wow.

[@tyallgaier]

agreed

[@paulaprettypaula4213]

So what’s his wife s story now she’s going to be married to a man that wants to be a woman will they still be intimate or will she be gay

[@bmeggy11]

Amanda you are just so incredibly well spoken. Your critical thinking and support is so impressive. I’ve always been impressed with how the both of you chose love and understanding and not willing to compromise on it! Keep going you two!

[@lieslreverelifecoach2834]

This is a great episode. My blessing told me I would be so wealthy with the things of the world that it would be be a struggle to spend it wisely. In real life... I grew up very poor and have struggled to barely make it by my whole life. This promise left me open to get rich schemas because I was always looking for "the way" it was going to happen. I have been out of the church for over 5yrs and gave up a long time ago that I would become amazing rich.

[@AubreyJM]

I was hoping you'd interview them!

[@sarahdillman7069]

I’m so sorry you were forced by the church to lock up your honest self in order to perform a part that was assigned to you without your consent. You survived now is your time to thrive and explore the you they made you hide. I love your honesty and vulnerability. Thank you for sharing.

[@jessicamacdonald5151]

Amazing video. Thanks for your honesty. The hilarious part was I got an advert for BYU.

[@LRumore]

Such a beautiful interview. I’m interested to see how this plays out. I know many of individuals that transitioned into being female. They were still attracted to their wives, but sadly their wives were not attracted to them as a female. All have loving platonic relationships, that are beautiful and functional and healthy for them and their children. But sadly, are no longer romantic in nature.

[@patientpinkpanther]

I identify so much with so much in this episode. Both stories. ❤️‍🩹

[@debbiepolinski4454]

Such love and devotion 🥰. You two are such an inspiration for others going through this identity crisis and trying so hard to just live their life.

[@livelovelocalmi]

This is one of the most intelligent, open, honest conversations I've ever been privy to. There is so much here. My life experiences are not parallel to anyone in this conversation, yet is realative in so many aspects of my own struggles and trauma in life. Shaye and Amanda are two people I recently discovered in my feed. This led me to this video. Thank you all for your authenticity. I'm looking forward to the next video. ❤

[@AngelsVoiceASMR]

Just came over from the Scott’s channel and saw their leaving Mormonism movie!! I was involved in over three cults and study religion on the daily. I appreciate so much people coming clean with their truth about religion and how controlling it is…. Thank you!!

[@bellebelle7868]

John I listen to your podcast every morning with my coffee when I wake up with chronic pain.. your episodes are a major part of my morning and so relaxing… thanks for everything

[@mormonstories]

🙏❤️

[@tjbrat44]

Much love, honor, and respect for helping those of us who always felt guilty for having questions, and not wanting to be a "sheep", to realize its ok to ask " why"

[@patriciareid3101]

This whole idea of gender express is amazing .. I hope that eventually come to the point where gender expression is normal