The UCI Needs To BAN Hookless Wheels!

[@GCPerformance18]

The only way That I think those big juggernauts of companies will ever go back to making hooked rims is if they are banned from racing by UCI because they are deemed unsafe to ride, then it would force those companies to make there rims with hooks again, but I do not know if its like politics were they can pay to win.... Who knows but every time I talk to someone about hookless wheels from those companies and ask what the main purpose is there for they always say more affordable and lighter, but there are more affordable options out there and also lighter wheels out there as well

[@DavidStacey-tx7on]

They need to be banned period. We all know manufactures are making them to save money and production time but at no point is there anything positive or safe about them

[@adossantos69751]

What would happen if Zipp/ Enve went back producing hooked rims? What about the customers that bought their hookless wheels? I do own Zipp 404 firecrest hookless, but I use it on my gravel bike. However, I am starting to get a bit anxious using it. Even if I decided to sell it, I don't think anyone would buy it right now, after all the reported blowouts. I guess I'm stuck with it!

[@mikehhhhhhh]

Did you see Vittoria announced today that it was nothing to do with hookless and in fact a rim failure caused by a rock strike

[@davidgoon1978]

they were meaning to say more profit for us

[@fergusdenoon1255]

It is just a new thing to make everyone replace their old thing, bike industry standard, it reaches a peak, so they make that obsolete so they can continue fleecing the punter. AX were making a 730gsm wheel set 10+ years ago

[@dexterx55]

On a rideout half a year ago a friend had a front tire blowout descending at 60km/h. He got lucky and only lost a bunch of skin in the process. Watching that convinced me that i don't need to try hookless. I just dont get the mentality of removing the one thing on a wheel that makes it super safe... i prefer to be alive instead beeing 20-30g lighter...

[@DrunkDrynasty]

And they aren’t even much lighter. Chinese wheel companies like LB and Farsports are making hooked rims under 250g (300g aero rims) which are lighter than any ENVE or Zipp rims. They’re very well made, stiff, and reliable wheels and they don’t cause tires to explode. But they’re Chinese so they’ll never be considered in the same tier as Zipp or ENVE. I just built up a gravel wheelset with the LB AR25 rims, 24h disc brakes, w/ Sapim cx-ray spokes, DT240 hubs and Galfer wave rotors.. They weigh under 1,100g for a $1000 wheelset.

[@rangersmith4652]

Another technological advancement that we didn't need.

[@Silidons91]

More like cost cutting technique

[@jazzcatjohn]

except it's not an advancement

[@rangersmith4652]

@@jazzcatjohn@Silidons91 OK, you missed my sarcasm.

[@jazzcatjohn]

@@rangersmith4652 You're sense of humor is dry indeed. 😏

[@JohnSmith-ox7xc]

@@rangersmith4652 was that sarcasm?

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Wait wait wait... someone buys a bike tire that is folded 6-ways in a tiny box, and they expect it to behave hooklessly like a car tire? 🤣

[@JayLato]

Good summary

[@yonglingng5640]

So you think the bead's construction plays a part? I've never thought of that. I don't think I've seen a hookless-compatible tubeless tire with beads that can't be folded.

[@sueghdsifbvjvn]

@@yonglingng5640 Yes absolutely. Peak torque on YT talked about how hookless in auto vehicles is completely different with the steel wire bead manufactured to very high tolerances, require tons of mounting pressure (think of when you have to change your car's tire at the shop) and are held up by a very large volume of air. If a bicycle tire was manufactured in a similar way, you wouldn't be able to fold the tire whatsoever, would need a mounting tool similar to the ones used on cars and would need a compressed air pump to fill it up with air and that is STILL not the best case use for bicycles given the smaller width of a road bike wheel.

[@SPLSE]

@@sueghdsifbvjvn Car tires can be mounted with hand tools. The machines are for safety and efficiency. You can watch plenty of videos here. Theres even videos on how to do it with NO tools.

[@sueghdsifbvjvn]

@@SPLSE Yes but you can't really jump on a bicycle wheel without untruing it at least if not damaging the rim.

[@TheGroupRide]

It's happening in lots of industries most common in FMCG with "shrinkflation", customer service with AI, and now pushing liability onto the consumer in an effort to reduce production cost.

[@cycleyyz]

Same reason why pressfit BBs were introduced - easier/cheaper manufacturing with very marginal improvements being marketed. Difference being that pressfit BBs won't kill you, and the weight and stiffness are actually a more noticeable benefit than anything the consumer gets from hookless.

[@daniellutz9923]

Pressfit BB is really superior. But it has to be within tolerances

[@cycleyyz]

@daniellutz9923 yeah, and a wide bearing stance helps. I prefer pressfit myself. My point is that it's not because it's superior that it was introduced. It was introduced because it was cheaper to manufacture. That's why most changes exist. It makes them easier to market if they actually are better. I believe the same is true of dropped seatstays. For me, hookless is pushing it. The benefits for the consumer are far too tiny. More aero? Lighter? Miniscule. Cost savings passed on? Doubt it - not all of them anyway.

[@timtaylor9590]

The funny thing is after all the mishaps, recalls, broken parts, injuries, crashes, and even deaths, the majority of consumers don't hesitate to dump their money in this new tech stuff putting one hundred percent of their faith in these companies that are known to short cut QC and basic engineering soundness.

[@nardo4067]

I’ve them for years & have NEVER had a problem. Remember how disc brakes were going to end pro cycling & kill everyone?

[@billscott6819]

I had a blowout on a hookless carbon rim, it's an absolute nightmare instant slam. It's slick as ice, not like a metal rim. Totally agree with your POV on this, great video.

[@cyberx7098]

One of the biggest problems with hookless wheel technology is that everything has to be 100% perfect in order for the system to work flawlessly. Unfortunately, there are still slight manufacturing variances in hookless wheels and tubeless tires that are being produced, even though they should be adhering to the ETRTO standards. As a result, those slight variances could be responsible for tires blowing off hookless wheels. The other problem is user error. People do not follow directions and they either use non-approved tubeless tires, or they put way too much air pressure in their tires. Both can lead to catastrophic outcomes. Hooked wheels are more forgiving regarding manufacturing variances and user error. Kudos to GC Performance for bringing up this very important topic about hookless wheel safety.

[@grantsearles511]

you also have to look at tyre compatibility with wheels.

[@flipooh]

This statement "People do not follow directions and they either use non-approved tubeless tires, or they put way too much air pressure in their tires.", should already tell us that there is something wrong with hookless rims. Our environment is not the same as in the test conditions, especially with the state of roads, and factor in the angles at which you hit potholes or stones on the road etc. Let us also stop the nonsense about the rims being cheaper as they are not. They may be manufactured cheaper but not sold cheaper to the consumers. These hookless rims should have a stamp that says "Made cheaper but not sold cheaper" rather than the "Made in xxxx".

[@mikekelly1771]

How can the UCI ban inwards hood tilt 'for safety' but allow hookless rims?

[@davidgoon1978]

fuck UCI

[@cd0u50c9]

Because they're a shill organisation to help promote shill manufacturers.

[@Sierramike524]

I feel like another factor that's not really mentioned is how much importance people seem to put on tyres being easy to mount. But in my mind, if it was easy to mount, it'll be easy to dismount, whether or not you want to. Car and motorcycle tyre beads are straight up smaller in diameter than the bead seat to ensure a snug fit. That's why they can't be fitted with just thumbs.

[@vr4966]

Totally agree!!!! I reached out to Enve directly on this issue. After purchasing 6 pairs of Enve wheelset over the last decade now switching to DT Swiss Hooked!

[@tarantulasam7609]

I was really worried about this when I was recently shopping for race wheels. I decided to go with FFWW. One of the major draws to them for me was that they are hooked.

[@flipooh]

Sold my Zipp 404 after hitting a pot hole and had a blowout. With the state of our UK roads, I’m surprised we’ve not had more blowouts.

[@roberttindall1203]

I have some Cadex hookless, all fine so far, I’m not light and have hit some horrible pot holes with no issues but I’m probably not hammering them like a pro. For the majority of people they work fine. At the extremes of any sport, all equipment is on or near the limits.

[@66mikkim]

You trust hookless with your life? Typical Male thinking...it´s been ok for ME, so I will not have the issues that others had. Even at the cost of your Life?

[@jernejorlcnik3112]

What tires are you using with Cadex wheels?

[@roberttindall1203]

@@jernejorlcnik3112 GP5000tr's in 28mm and TPU tubes.

[@dsonyay]

I went to TPU a few months ago.. 8 bucks per tube.. totally done with tubeless.. super light, dependable. Getting cheaper and cheaper.

[@Check-it-out]

From the second i heard about the design i knew this was dangerous. I am surprised, and glad, that the number of accidents is relatively low. Never in my life will i ride these wheels. Zipp ‘weaponry’ they call themselves right ? Weaponry that might kill you…

[@GCPerformance18]

yea I would never use hookless even if they were free for me, I just od not feel confiedent

[@EYEupP]

I see lots of similar videos. I don't know what is going on, but I had hookless Giant1 rims I got on my Giant TCR for almost 2 years, I'm 230lbs (which matters here as well) and never had any issues. Nothing ever happened. Changed 3 tires in that time, from Cadex (25mm), Schwalbe (30mm) and Vittoria (28mm). Also, I pumped them up a bit too much as well (85psi). I guess, I was just lucky.

[@Questioneverything72]

After hearing this, good luck descending +20 mph without peeing in your pants 😉

[@EYEupP]

@@Questioneverything72 Well.... this doesn't change my 2 year experience at all. There is ALWAYS a chance of something catastrophic happening and if we went by that logic, no one would ever fly a plane, ride a car, swim or anything. Always a chance of catastrophe. Statistically, this is probably still a lower percentage chance of happening than a car crash while commuting. Just think of how many people die in car crash every day. Thousands! But there is ONE blowout because of rider rolling over a big rock in the middle of the road (as it was reported now) and all hell breaks loose.

[@waysidetimes9226]

@@EYEupP There are tons of videos of this exact thing happening. The reason why people are pissed about hookless is not because you'll die every time you run it. It's because this tech has no upside to us as cyclists, but has significant downsides. The only benefit of it is that it saves money for the manufacturer, and none of those savings are passed onto us. Even if they were cheaper, we'd rather pay more for hooked wheels. I ran a tire shop for a couple years. Over that period, I had hundreds of people roll in with obviously unsafe vehicles that they did not want to fix. The car had not killed them yet, despite the fact that the tires could blow out on literally any bump, or the lower control arm could fall out any moment, or the brake lines were so rusted through they were leaking brake fluid. Running hookless wheels is akin to driving a car like that. You can be fine for a surprisingly long time with rotted brake lines. It only takes one thing to go wrong for this to be a life-threatening event. I don't want that. I don't want people unknowingly buying a bike with that risk. Hookless wheels are a technology with significant downsides and no upsides. Much like Shimano's crank separation issue, I have a feeling these manufacturers will eventually be forced to recall these wheelsets. It really only takes a couple of people getting killed because their tire blew out and they skidded into traffic as a result. That would be a terrible outcome. It'd be better for these manufacturers to take them off the market now and go back to what has worked for decades.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Never had a problem running hookless on gravel - but I'm running 47mm Pathfinder Pro's at 36 psi with a 25mm internal width. But I would run hooked on a road bike for sure.

[@christophertan3195]

That's actually too much psi unless you are way way heavy

[@jackwhale8152]

agree, on low psi using senerio like gravel or mtb riding hookless could be a good option, but with road cycling, hell no

[@_cpdchua]

36 psi????? Damn that's high my guy

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@_cpdchua I’m 6”2” and 215 lbs. That’s exactly where the Silca tire pressure calculator wants me - and I’m fast and comfy with it. 👍

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@christophertan3195 I race a Revolt Advanced Pro, and in the Mid South where I live and the courses I run (some tarmac/mostly gravel) 35 front/36.5 back works best for me. I’m 6’2” and 215lbs.

[@bcampbell0011]

I actually feel bad for the current generation of pros..having to deal with all this nonsense ( heavier bikes, disc vs rim brakes, hookless rims, etc...) as they generally do not have a lot of say in what they ride. Who I don't feel bad for are consumers ( sheep ) who consistently need to emulate these guys at any cost, just to look "pro" at their local meet-up

[@pantster9855]

As Hambini/TP etc have mentioned previously, Chinese/Taiwanese brands who actually make the wheels for OEMs will make them for them but they don’t make. Them for their own brands. That should say a lot

[@AL-pc1rb]

Some fairly reputable Chinese "own-brand" wheels make hookless under their own name. Not all, but some. Seems like the ones being marketed as ultra-super-duper aero are hooked, presumably because they have an idea of what consumers are going to do with those kinds of wheels (running them under the ETRTO lower limit in an effort to match the outer width of the carcass with the outer width of the rim). The allroad or gravel type wheels which are not super deep or super aero are more likely to be hookless and less likely to cause problems because they're getting fatter tires (by road racing standards)

[@pantster9855]

And people report tyres popping off wheels whilst sat around not being ridden I’ve not seen own brand ‘high end’ Chinese wheels being hookless but they will make the wheels for OEM’s if they’re paid Simply isn’t a performance need for hookless. The lightest wheels now are hooked

[@AL-pc1rb]

@@pantster9855then you're not paying attention to the big picture. Outside of the bleeding edge stuff with carbon spokes and gram minimizing championships it's pretty common, and MTB has been doing it without issues for years. The pros and cons are well documented, it's not a secret.

[@pantster9855]

@@AL-pc1rb YES MTB has been doing it for years and it’s absolutely fine for that use. Why? Because the rims are MUCH wider, the tyres are even wider still and most importantly the pressures are MUCH less As for “bleeding edge”. Not really. As mentioned the latest Black Inc wheels are NOT hookless, they are lighter than Zipp 353’s AND are also 48mm and 58mm rim depth versus the shallower 45mm rims of the 353’s. They’re also designed to work with 28mm tyres So I say again hookless just isn’t needed. It brings no further benefits to the consumer, only to the brand

[@greggwollenhaupt]

Your comments are right on! We need to get tire and rim standards.

[@norbertibarra9029]

I love my Bora Ultra hooked rims. Fast enough and I know I'll never have an issue...

[@ESR66]

Ya wider tires are lighter and the extra spokes to support the braking force generated by disc brakes make lighter too.

[@ozgurinsan]

Hookless is dangerous and zero benefit to customers. Never seen hooked rims blow out like this.

[@PrimalurgesMiami]

I’ve seen this happen a couple of times on road tires and once on a gravel bike. Fortunately in all instances it happens when the bike was stationary. This is being pushed solely because it is cheaper to manufacture. Whatever weight savings there is has to be extremely negligable.

[@deweja9192]

I had a blowout on my mtb with hooked wheels, my bike was standing in the sun after a ride what started cold in the morning . From heat the tire pressure went up and while the bike just was standing there there was the blowout. I have put the tire back and still riding that tire. And this was not at extreme hot temperatures. I think at the UAE tour temperatures can be more high and cause this blowout.

[@robertchandler587]

Crazy I didn’t realise the extent of the problem. Thanks GC

[@Hippiehansie]

I have been cycling on a Giant TCR with SLR 1 hookles rims for a year now and to be completely honest I am satisfied with it. Use Silca sealant and never have any problems with installation.

[@mortlow6688]

I ride dt swiss crc 1400 hookless wheels since 5 years and have no issues at all . ...!? 32 conti gp 5000 tl, 40 mm wtb byway and 42 mm S Works Pathfinder at the moment...i use no tire inserts.

[@GCPerformance18]

I didnt know dt swiss made hookless wheels

[@mortlow6688]

@@GCPerformance18 DT Swiss CRC 1400 Spline 24 CL is the exact model name. 130 kg System weight and no issues in all Tests i read before i have buy them. … The funny thing i have use them with first gen Conti Gp 5000 tl 32 mm and after 3 month (Great fast tires no issues) i read they not make for hookless rims. I have call Dt swiss and ask them if there are any Problems or if there are tubeless tires from other Brands i can‘t use?They said i can use them with all tubeless tires they never had any problems in their tests or hear about Customer complains…!?

[@paulinkala3573]

Enve Foundation 65 almost killed me - followed the rules, right tire, right pressure for my weight. Was running 25's maybe should have had 28's but sorry I don't want 28's on a Factor 02. Hit a small rock on the front going 38 MPH on a downhill - tire blew off on one side - lost all PSI in a second, impossible to control. Skid down the road at 36 mph for 10 yds - fantastic road rash. I sold them dam things ASAP

[@bingbing3464]

Personally saw a dude on a passing group getting cpr after having a tubeless blowout and smashed his head even on a hooked rim. After personally experiencing a few blowout myself due to unexpected increased pressure during a freak hot day (that is becoming common nowadays), ive decided to try tpu and im now a convert.

[@MrYAMAHA32177]

I agree 100% that hookless is not the best technology for most road wheelsets.

[@justsomedude7556]

I am with you, I see no benefits to hookless on road just do to the pressures.

[@bonn1771]

agree with you. i told 1 company if it is hookless i wont use them

[@harveyclark1042]

Why ban anything? I think you should push the limits on any technology. If it disintegrates while you’re in a race, then it’s your fault for picking that technology. Personally, I would pick some thing that won’t disintegrate. Just common sense here.

[@Paganizondaf650]

And they even had a tire insert which should help to keep the tire in the bead. Although that vittoria airliner is much softer than the cushcore gravel/cx I use on my cyclocross bike to stop the tire burping or coming off the bead at the way too low pressures of usually 21 psi for 33mm

[@bebopman5]

Yeah, so I do run the ENVE SES 4.5s and I've have no issues with them, but I've been very particular in the setup to mitigate some of the issues I've been recently seeing about hookless wheels on the road. Firstly, I use tubes, and I peeped that ETRO minimum of 29mm tire and that's the size tire I have. Heck, I even used ENVE's own tires that they say is "optimized for the rim profile." It's worked so far, but I can’t account for future mishaps.

[@theGiantrider]

I´ve have a Giant Propel and Giant wheels are hookless.. I´m running it with GP5000 sTR (Giant allows these to hookless wheels) and I have had zero issues so far..

[@Questioneverything72]

And if you have an issue you wouldn’t be alive to tell us about it.

[@theGiantrider]

@@Questioneverything72 Okay, rim break guy 😂

[@Questioneverything72]

@@theGiantrider Yeah but not because of being anti inventions. Because my bicycles are 14 years old. I would like to get a new bike and no problem with disc break. But my 16 lb bikes are working flawlessly and I can’t justify new bike price tag. Regarding hookless, I am for inventions but stupid inventions are only good for dumb people. Even if the risk is %1 higher compare to hooked rims, it is just stupid and unnecessary. Safety is priority. Plus I don’t want to be limited to certain tire/rim combination.

[@adamsolomon9353]

I had some MTB tires blow off hookless rims. One while airing it up, at about 30 psi, the other while riding and I had to walk back

[@tccycling]

I understand it must happen, I just don't know anyone whose had a tire blow off a hookless wheel. I've ridden Zipp and Enve for thousands of miles and raced with both. Nothing but performance. I've never personally known anyone it's happened to.

[@atakdd]

its because people are idiots and think you can pump the tire to the same pressures as a hooked rim. what people dont understand is that because the inner rim width is so wide, 50psi is equivalent to 80-90 psi on a hooked rim for a 28mm or a 30mm tire, but I still do not understand why it is so hard for people to understand this. literally every single car, motorcycle, truck, plane, all use hookless rims, and unsurprisingly, they have requirements on maximum psi limit you can pump the tires. why? because unsurprisingly, you pump the tire past that limit, regardless of the mode of transport, expect a tire blow-off and most likely breaking the rim itself. anyone who complains about hookless is treating the rim as a hooked rim, and it shows how ignorant they truly are to the technology and the understanding of the wheel's purpose. I have been using hookless for 3 years on my road bike, zipp 303 firecrest and zipp 404 firecrest, would never go back to hooked unless a team or sponsor provides gear to use. Never once had a tire blow-off, never once had any issues.

[@rayF4rio]

@@atakdd I agree. In fact, the lack of actual knowledge about technology is amazing. Most riders are not, repeat, not, knowledgeable on about how their bike actually works. This applies to disc brakes, bearings, tire pressures, adjusting shifting...on and on. Yet they all "appear" to be experienced cyclists because they "look" the part with fancy kits and smooth legs, power meters and the latest gear. But as soon as an issue pops up...off to the shop they go.

[@lannym]

@@atakdd Seriously doubt the De Gendt's tire was overinflated...

[@DaveCM]

​@atakdd you cannot compare car tires and rims to bike tires and rims. Car tires have a very heavy wire bead and the fit is much tighter. They have to installed with equipment.

[@williamko4751]

No need hookless, no need tubeless. Now with super lite weight 30 gram PTU inner tube, makes tubeless hookless pointless

[@martinkroutil]

Yes, on the road even if there is just 1% chance tyre will fail you then that is 1% way too much, so no thank you I will happily continue use my hooks and tpu tubes.

[@davidnicholson6680]

I ride in a group with over 100 members. These guys ride and race A LOT. Zipp and ENVEs are very common. No one has ever had a blow-off, no one has had any problems. Hookless is fine. Just don't try to run 23s on a 25mm internal rim. Don't try to run 90 psi. You'll be fine.

[@atakdd]

This is the issue with everyone complaining, they are so uninformed and spreading their garbage opinion as if they understand everything about it when they understand absolutely nothing. They complain when they get a tire blowout after they pump the tire too high of a psi and blame the rim for the problem compared to their stupidity. People never fail to impress me in terms of their sheer ignorance on these kinds of topics, it just frustrates the hell out of me lol. like literally everything is hookless, cars trucks motorcycles planes fucking mopeds, you name it, and i dont see anyone complaining there because naturally people dont pump the tires past the rim limit based on the manufacturer spec. its like this is the one industry where everyone just wants to knowingly ignore the manufacturer spec of the rim and then complain when it doesnt work after going completely out of range based on the tolerances the rim was designed to handle lol

[@ginomordocco4710]

@@atakddI’m on Enve 4.5’s and I was justifying them the same way you are here. I agree with you 100%. Just be mindful of your pressures and proper setup, but you can’t tell me you wouldn’t feel a little bit better if they were hooked. I think us Enve fan boys have to justify how much we paid for them by sticking up for the hookless tech. I would love Enve more if they were the first to walk their dog back and own up to what’s potentially wrong with hookless. Just simply state they totally believe in hookless but they see that maybe cycling isn’t the best application and for the safety of their customers going forward they have decided to go back to hooked. But they can’t! They’re too deep now.

[@littlevo9]

@@atakddce que tu dis est vrai il y a encore des gens qui gonflent à 8bars alors qu’ils pèsent 70kg .

[@mikicastan]

What is real benefit of hookless design for road bikes? Nonexisting

[@66mikkim]

@@atakdd What is the ONE differance between Tyres for Roadbikes and all the others you mentioned? The roadbike tyre dose not hold it´s fucking shape IT´S A FREAKING FOLDING Tyre. No metal beeds, no metal carcass, way to skinny. Hookless is a big fucking no go in the private space...most ppl are not like the pros that weigh 60kg

[@MrJohnnyTN]

takes 2 Grant.. seems it's usually Zipp353 and a Vittoria tire.

[@glennmcfarlane5513]

I guess if the tires were steel beeded like automotive tires, hookless would be viable.

[@DaveCM]

And they were installed with machines because the fit is so tight.

[@TheMerckxProject]

I got into a discussion about this incident on one of the apps (the only people who thought I should keep my opinion to myself all work for cycling media....), but I definitely agree with your point on the hit tarmac. They're not riding in northern Europe in March. There's going to be some extreme pavement temps in thatcpart of the world, and I have no doubt that a tire inflated to near the max, with a tire liner, expanded like bread in the oven on those arabian peninsula bitumen roads.

[@simonalexandercritchley439]

I will continue to use clinchers for road bikes.Maybe one day when hookless are sorted for road use I will consider them. Profits are more important than safety and user experience apparently.

[@Captinfun101]

I have no problem with my 25c rim brake , I stop on a dime, I turn on rails and hardly get flats .?? Also just don’t buy them . They won’t sell and the corporate will have to take a hit and revert back to tried and tested.

[@sasha371]

I think we miss some more information here. We need following data: was this a new tyre, what sealant was used, if not new tyre, how many times it was taken off and on, what was the mileage (perhaps lifespan is much shorter as chemical processes in tyres do continue after manufacturing and tyre is changing), we need to know temperature of tarmac, tyre and air at the moment of blow. Only having this data we could find some relationships and potentially a pattern. Testing tyres with wheels in the lab - it's not the same, sorry. I think it's also important to understand if this tyre was used in the mountains, as pressure would change around, hence higher pressure inside, that would stretch tyre more than it should. Also descending and angular forces... There's just so much going on

[@andrewmcalister3462]

While hookless may be ok when used according to specification, the margin of safety for road hookless is too small for it to be suitable for consumer use. The industry is just one class action lawsuit away from a disaster. While manufacturers will naturally seek to reduce costs, it is ETRTO that I am really disappointed in for approving a standard with such a small margin of safety.

[@ketle369]

So happy I bought Shimano wheels with hooks. Why isn't there almost any YT videos on Shimano wheels? They are great value for the price. The few that do review them keep nagging about the hubs being cup and cone. I think that's something of the best features with them. Two spanners and you can service your self. I had DT Swiss wheels that should be easily serviceable by changing out the ball bearing cartridges. Even when my neighbor, that is a car mechanic, helped me we used hours to get the old one out. When we finally got the new ones in there was still play in the back wheel.

[@JayLato]

I’m honestly worried for Safa Brian now that he’ll be running the new Hookless Syncros Wheels.

[@vitskr1]

Yeah, because that is the only worrying thing about how he rides 😄

[@leslie7922]

Rip safa

[@galenkehler]

Probably fine, the guy looks like he's 45kg soaking wet 😅

[@roadcyclist1]

You're more likely to have a crash than Brian. You should probably start worrying for yourself instead

[@roadcyclist1]

​@leslie7922 he will still be going strong long after you're in the grave, I assure you.

[@ricardorusso1462]

I remember when the UCI banned disc brakes after just a hint that they could have slashed someone’s shoe and now after multiple incidents with tubeless they still allow them in competition? Disgraceful

[@BV192]

Then manufacturers came with cash, and boom - the UCI says it's okay ;)

[@adamcurpier]

I’m on Zipp 303s hookless, Enve SES 31mm, tubeless. Only a few miles so far. Reconsidering the purchase …

[@FREIXENEMET]

I had a blowoff on Zipp 353NSW on GP5000 30c. But I have also a Zipp 303 S and a enve ses 4.5 and never had a blowoff with then. I think it’s an issue with the 353 measures.

[@elmergen]

Of course hookless have blowouts. Hooked tires have blowouts too. Can we get statistics on how often hooked tires blow out (e.g. Peter Sagan on CLXs). Before we trash on hookless, can we see the incidents rates per 1000 hookless wheelsets vs incident rates of 1000 hooked tires to see if blow out rates are the same?

[@joesantos7196]

"Shhhh move along. Nothing to see here 😂."

[@johnkasza2315]

Did you watch the video? He has 100's of messages of tubeless incidents ..the pro rider association has just asked for ban.. I've ridden for 50 years..have never seen a clincher blow off a rim while riding or while sitting in your living room

[@jeskli11]

That's what I was thinking. You could add to that the amount of ‘blown’/unglued tubular tires. I'll absolutely continue riding my two sets of hookless Zipps and never look back to tubulars, due to which I couldn't finish two CX races.

[@joesantos7196]

@@johnkasza2315 you saying ban tubeless? Lol

[@MaartendeJager]

Exactly Only tubes wont blow but they can still come off when using old glue for instance There is always something

[@ShawnIsBatman]

Keep preaching GC!! Even if the UCI or the wheel manufacturers do not listen, you will likely save your average cyclists who may happen to see this a lot of cost, hassle and potentially injury with your message.

[@kyleessex6301]

I would never on road wheels. My big questions is gravel wheels?

[@GCPerformance18]

yea I would be okay with gravel because wider and also the tire pressure is lower

[@Stevehab2]

Is there a tire size you see this more with? 25 is too small. 29 and maybe 30 are close to if not too small. 32 seems ok. Several friends use hookless with 30 and 32 and no issues yet.

[@erickim3265]

oh snap... thank you.. i too had issues with hookless..... so it was not just me!

[@moobaz8675]

I'm about to pick up my new bike with hookless Corimas on it. Still a bit twitchy but I will keep a close eye on pressures. Nice overview. 👍

[@bcrooks7321]

The reason I'm still not sold on hookless. The mental gymnastics of it don't register in my head on a 50+ mph descent. Fuck that. They rather save a few dollars and injure someone.

[@ketle369]

Would add press fit and integrated cables on that list for the average Joe. Just makes things more complicated and more expensive.

[@waynehiggins899]

Press fits fine if your bb has a round hole within tolerance

[@udtrader]

I don't get it.. what makes anyone think putting 73 PSI on a tire/wheelset with max 70 PSI is a good idea? I ride Zipp 404 FC GP 5k S TR 28mm tires inflated to 64 PSI. I've never had a problem during my 5000 miles on these wheels last year.

[@Stevenafoe]

Thats not it, it’s going to max psi (hot day) then hitting a puthole or the likes, pushing it well over max psi. There’s no room for that is what ment.

[@okkesersinmart]

the message is simple you need a new tech and its there. go and buy hookless to fly. when a problem occurs go and check even calculate pressure specifications on the web there must be a fault on you. correct it dont blame the company. :)

[@LPmaterials]

in engineering design, there is a thing called safety factor. If a component is tested to fail at an arbitrary number of 200, and the company rates it for 100 for consumers, that's a safety factor of 2. It gives leeway for consumers that sometimes don't read instructions, or have faulty pressure gage for example... Seems like hookless are designed with low safety factors or there is a major design flaw.

[@DaM.1]

1.1 safety factor according to Dan Bigham

[@MarkLRandall]

@@DaM.1 No engineer in their right mind would design a critical item with that low a safety factor. But this is the bike industry, so who knows?

[@DaM.1]

@@MarkLRandall I know. Dan Bigham tweeted this. He is a great source of info. I belive he is correct

[@user-nu5fx6en9h]

Happened to my hooked wheel too , I changed to hookless nothing ever happen till now 😁

[@TnFruit]

Sometimes people should wait what investigations say. You got hooked by your own imagination. De Gendts fail was caused by a broken rim. It wasn't the tire which want to come of by it's own will. Sorry to all KZbinrs !!!

[@GCPerformance18]

broken rim, but if the rim broke on a hooked rim and a normal hooked tire, the tire would have a way better chance of staying on and go to a slow down flart instead of immediately flying off the rim because of separation, again it is unnecessary tech for it. and ofr rider saftey it should have a hook

[@TnFruit]

@@GCPerformance18 well, you can't proof it, so don't say it. Let's wait and see what happens at Paris Roubaix.

[@MarkLRandall]

Coming from the auto industry, it is very surprising to me what a mess the bike industry is, with regards to standardization.

[@stevanmusulin9457]

It’s been confirmed he was using an undersized tire and also you probably aren’t supposed to be using an insert either. hookless hysteria going on.

[@jameseastwood402]

To be fair I had a GP5000 S-TR come unseated on a hooked rim sending it little too quick in to a crit corner... but yeah hookless can get in the bin, no benefit at all for the consumer.

[@greggpedder]

Also the design of car wheels is inherently safe. Peak torque did an excellent video explaining it.

[@rlmurillo]

I am getting more and more nervous about riding my 303FC, so far no problems, but i see more mishaps and that makes me think if i should get rid of it. I bought a second set of Roval rapide. Last season i only rode those, the Zipps which are shallower are my spares. I will buy 30c tires for my Zipps just for more peace of mind.

[@JayLato]

The problem I have is the marketing for those wheels are all about tire to rim transition and aero benefits blah blah and putting a 30mm on it undoes a selling point and essentially becomes fraudulent as it takes that combo back a few years in tech advancements, making the tire lightbulb.

[@rayF4rio]

I ride 303FC with either 30 or 32mm STR's. I never go over 60 psi, the roads here are pretty rough. They measure 31 and 33 mm respectively. Good wheels, but the OE bearings sucked. Pressures of 53/58 (30mm) and 48/55 (32mm), I'm 78kg. I also put 32mm Maxxis Refuse tires on them and they balloon out to 34mm. However, my next set will be the Bora WTO C23's - mostly because they roll better, but also because of the rim not needing rim tape. Hooked will be an added benefit, if I ever decide to ride 28mm tires again.

[@LindseyH24]

100%!!! Hookless makes no sense on road bikes with the current kit. Maybe, just maybe it would be okay with tyre widths above 34mm or so, maybe. But we aren't there yet

[@littlevo9]

Je voulais vendre mes Roval Rapid CLX pour installer des Enve 6.7 ,je pèse 92kg Ducoup je devrais gonfler à la limite …je garde mes Roval j’ai 100% confiance dans ce roues ,elles sont homologuées à 125kg et très performante. Je voulais les enve car j’aime les profils hauts (ce n’est pas un problème pour moi) mais la sécurité passe avant tout .

[@jr.angel.555]

My giant tcr came with tubeless hookless carbon wheels, not a fan of hookless Wheels at all.

[@ronnieloudermilk366]

Road pressures are too high for hookless. I only ride hooked rims on the road.

[@GCPerformance18]

IO agree with this

[@simonwarmer8777]

I don’t understand why people buy them.

[@andreortizdecarvalho]

I'm not here to defend it, I run it, I've no issues, but I'm really thinking about retiring them because I'm getting scared (I run a Giant SL1). But a quick question, I haven't seen anyone reporting issues with Cadex or Giant wheels, have you? (maybe they're doing it better?)

[@theGiantrider]

I have a Giant Propel.. with hookless rims.. got it for four years now.. no issues so far...

[@clp91009]

I’ve seen a tire spontaneously blow off the rim of a bike parked up at a cafe stop. Had that happened on the road it could have been fatal to the rider. I wouldn’t use hookless if you paid me.

[@Madtriboy]

2x pairs 404 fircrest, 1 x 303, 1 x454. 77kg rider. 7.3kg bikes. ZERO ISSUES over 39500 km. Rubber consistently used= Pirelli p Zero race 28mm tr (both old and new Italian versions)

[@GCPerformance18]

yes I know there are a ton of instances where they work and hold up, but there to many instances of them not working

[@66mikkim]

And a other guy sayin his gun is safe just cause he hasent killed anyone with it.... Would you try an experiment? A bottle full of jellybeans... 10.000 to be exact. 15 of them will kill you, would you still grab a handfull and eat them? I bet not!

[@AveragestCyclist]

I agree with you, if it can hold its own shape then I’ll put it on my bike

[@MAGAmaniac1000]

As a racer there is no way I would ride a hookless wheel. It will get someone killed or seriously injured

[@scott8189]

i know a guy who had it happen to him twice once in his garage and once on his way to a group ride, i happened to be driving behind him and it got sealant all over my car so i had to stop and a car wash before the group ride lmao. it's dangerous and stupid and it's not like the manufacturing cost is being passed down to us either but hey zipp and enve get to make 3 percent more profit yay.

[@dcv9460]

I'm hooked with hooked wheels. 😎💯

[@wrcompositi]

The earliest design of road tubeless system was actually the best. First, the dimensions and shapes of tire bead and rim interior must comply with strict tolerances. Second, both the tire and the rim are airtight, no sealant and tape required. Third, the tire bead is made of carbon fiber which doesn't stretches. It's pathetic that wheel and tire brands just ignored the established standard for road tubeless and played their own games, so we can't have a true hassle-free and safe solution nowadays.

[@BV192]

Hookles - basically a tubular rim without a glued tyre.. Tubs all the way ;)

[@jeskli11]

Didn't have a single issue with two hookless wheelsets, yet unglued two tubulars mid CX race. Thanks, I'll never look back to tubs.

[@BV192]

@@jeskli11 - why would you come with the tubular cx statement, when road wheels/tubs are discussed here? Totally a different world - tubs are superior with big pressures (road), hookles is quite the opposite and good for low pressures (mtb/gravel/cx)..

[@iMadrid11]

Engineers will always have an extra allowance beyond the advertised specs. A bridge that’s rated for 15 ton weight limit. Will have an extra 10 ton allowance build specs into the construction design. So the bridge wouldn’t catastrophically fall down when an overweight truck crosses the bridge. So a hookless rim that’s spec rated 73 PSI spec limit should have an actual structural limit of at least 83 PSI.

[@fikretatalay]

That is pretty much what they currently have; a factor of safety of 1.1. Which I would argue is too low for a safety-critical component like wheels and tires. Some like Giant design their hookless systems with a higher factor of safety; closer to 1.5 (which I think is a much better target).

[@dominicbritt]

That’s not true because the max 73psi comes from ETRTO, not the wheel manufacturers - a ZIPP wheel with 25mm internal rim width should be running a 30mm tyre with 60psi… 73mm is a maximum…

[@schbchia]

wish ZIPP will do a world wide recall, maybe a significant discount for us to buy a new ZIPP Hook Wheels is still better than nothing...

[@thedronescene7474]

Using the shimano crank recall is a bad example! Why? Because the cranks were indeed bad and hookless is not bad if you actually read the manual and inflate them as per specs! Max 80 PSI 27-29MM tires and Max 70 30mm tires ( Enve wheels ) Most people online just do not bother to read the manual, they inflate to 80+ and boom.

[@66mikkim]

Yeah sure....Inflate to 80 psi in the morning with 60°F, over the day it gets hot like around 95°f and watch your Tyre, that is inflated "to spec" jump of the rim goin down a hill at 50mph

[@thedronescene7474]

@@66mikkim Why would you inflate to 80 when 80 is the max? U are a perfect example as to why Hookless seems so bad. 🤦‍♂️

[@66mikkim]

@@thedronescene7474 it's just an example. Could just as well be 71 psi...if you leave that tire in the Sun it will come off by itself.

[@Chris-iv2ud]

Zipp blow out? Not a surprise, personally I have seen about 6 cases where the 404 fc had a blow out

[@luism9150]

It shouldn't be a folding Tire. it should have a bead on it. like the old days. Before folding.

[@fabianmolyneux2308]

All this tech being transferred out from the Mtn riding experience to the road begs the question: why was the tech so different to start with? To me the answer possibly lies in the fact that such tech is not necessary and in some instances not appropriate for road riding.

[@ellerybice3787]

🐬🦈 Be thankful that these particular wheel manufactures are not in the fishing lure business. 🐠🐟

[@GCPerformance18]

I know I am sticking with hooks

[@jaycab4806]

Too many variables when using hookless and tolerance is too critical. Even if you use the right wheel and tyre combo the pump you use may not be accurate. CycleSpeedtours had blow outs even when it was stationary.

[@marcinstyle85]

Companies dont care as long they make profit on it

[@Papaciclista]

Another suicide product, that ironic the UCI forget to banned, but pedals, hands Position or Shifter tilts....you know who come First

[@storegga]

Having enough tyres to sell that do and don't fit hookless. Enough rims that do and don't must be hard enough especially when hookless aren't as safe.

[@disloyalyou5455]

I would like to ride Enve wheels they look good and fast but never touching hookless