The Ultimate Guide to Lands | The Command Zone 455 | Magic: The Gathering Commander EDH

[@sosukelele]

6:32 How many lands should you run? 14:06 Evaluating variance 14:59 Land counts - factors to consider 21:39 Common mistake #1: too few lands 22:41 Common mistake #2: cutting lands over time 26:13 Counting lands that don't (always) make mana 27:45 How to determine color spread 29:12 Color spread - factors to consider

[@Cole_B169]

Thank you

[@DetroitTyler]

Appreciate the timestamps ! Cheers

[@KevinCockerline]

I didn’t watch it yet, but just from the title; really happy that the command zone has been putting out more unique content and less set related stuff. I feel like a lot of people asked for this and the command zone team really came through. Looking forward to listening

[@LordT]

Totally agree, and I know they are long videos (and the adverts are just dam right annoying) the content is top quality

[@cloudyboi13]

Yasss…

[@justinjones8091]

X

[@ryanlott1108]

@@LordT honestly the built in ads are less annoying than the KZbin inserted ads. You can at least skip through their ads, and they put a lot of work into them despite their cheesy campy nature. Often the KZbin ads are un-skipable and inserted right before or after the command zone bits, so it's an extra layer of obnoxious. But as far as the content, as a very amateur magic player I love the long format strategy/deck brewing videos.

[@jsky2004]

@@LordT I mean the adverts ensure the top quality...

[@Ryne91]

Josh: Does an episode on lands Jimmy: Nowhere to be seen

[@danacoleman4007]

I always just run 99 lands. I only consider it a win when my commander has an amazingly beautiful and varied panoramic landscape within which to exist!

[@davidvaughn7778]

No matter how many lands I put in, it feels like it's 95% of my deck sometimes.

[@crppledizzle9374]

You can win with 96 wastes

[@SilverMyr73]

I actually have a 99 land kenrith deck that has won games by sucker punching with kenrith, using man lands, or just outgrinding with utility lands and kenrith activations

[@jesusfernandezgarcia1025]

I'm from Spain, not a native English speaker. I LOVE how understandable and handy these podcasts are. There's no other channel like this, whose games, podcasts and productions are as well made as yours. Thanks for a really good job on your work.

[@Mizelei2012]

I'm from the Netherlands

[@privettk]

In my early decks I tried to math out the color spread like you mention and so often I'd be screwed out of the smaller color that I needed to cast my commander. Since then I've run equal spread on all colors and that has worked surprisingly well

[@christophknorr4635]

I usually only spread my Basic lands according to the color spread in my Deck. I don't count my Dual lands to this spread and since I mostly play around 15 to 20 Basics of 35/36 Lands in my Decks I always have the colors I need from my Duals. Only if I have Spells that are very heavy on one specific Pip, Unnatural Growth for example in a 3-Color Deck, than I adjust my Basics accordingly.

[@josephg279]

Me to I do the same

[@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS]

JuSt GeT LaNdS ThAt MaKe EvErY CoLoR

[@Zaakar]

Well said. This is a better starting point, especially if you plan on casting your commander(s) early. Having many multicolored spells also skews you this way.

[@RuudAwakening]

I always consider “would I keep a starting hand with not all the colors available?” Mostly the answer is no, therefore I balance out the color-availability. I even go that far to cut the spells that F up the colorbalance. Makes for more and consistently fun play experience

[@smokin8194]

22:00 “nobody has ever said this mountain is gonna take you down!!” *Omnath, locus of rage has entered the chat*

[@Leftists_are_Losers]

Introduce them to the card Seismic Assault… That mountain can take you down.

[@cosmic_sporks8051]

My friend had like maybe 6 mana left I had 4 it was my turn and having nothing left I cast Restless Bivouac that can turn into a 2/2. So I just dumped my ramp and artifact equipment onto it and killed him with a 13/17 land creature thing.

[@bulbasaurappreciator]

You all have been slaying it with these intros to your podcasts recently! I expect the high production value for Game Knights but just the 20-30 seconds at the beginning here was really cool.

[@31Uriel]

For those interested: This is the probability to have exactly 3 or exactly 4 lands after 0/1/2/3 mulligans depending on the amount of lands in your deck. 0 1 2 3 4 0,09% 0,17% 0,26% 0,35% 5 0,21% 0,42% 0,63% 0,83% 6 0,41% 0,81% 1,21% 1,61% 7 0,69% 1,37% 2,05% 2,72% 8 1,06% 2,11% 3,15% 4,18% 9 1,54% 3,06% 4,55% 6,02% 10 2,13% 4,21% 6,25% 8,25% 11 2,83% 5,58% 8,25% 10,84% 12 3,64% 7,15% 10,53% 13,79% 13 4,57% 8,93% 13,10% 17,07% 14 5,61% 10,91% 15,92% 20,64% 15 6,77% 13,08% 18,97% 24,45% 16 8,04% 15,43% 22,22% 28,47% 17 9,41% 17,93% 25,64% 32,64% 18 10,87% 20,56% 29,20% 36,90% 19 12,43% 23,32% 32,86% 41,20% 20 14,08% 26,18% 36,57% 45,50% 21 15,80% 29,11% 40,31% 49,74% 22 17,59% 32,09% 44,04% 53,88% 23 19,44% 35,11% 47,73% 57,89% 24 21,34% 38,13% 51,34% 61,73% 25 23,29% 41,15% 54,85% 65,36% 26 25,26% 44,13% 58,24% 68,79% 27 27,24% 47,07% 61,49% 71,98% 28 29,24% 49,93% 64,57% 74,93% 29 31,24% 52,72% 67,49% 77,64% 30 33,22% 55,41% 70,22% 80,11% 31 35,18% 57,99% 72,77% 82,35% 32 37,11% 60,45% 75,12% 84,36% 33 38,99% 62,78% 77,29% 86,15% 34 40,82% 64,98% 79,28% 87,74% 35 42,59% 67,04% 81,08% 89,14% 36 44,28% 68,95% 82,70% 90,36% 37 45,89% 70,73% 84,16% 91,43% 38 47,42% 72,35% 85,46% 92,35% 39 48,84% 73,83% 86,61% 93,15% 40 50,16% 75,16% 87,62% 93,83% 41 51,37% 76,35% 88,50% 94,41% 42 52,46% 77,40% 89,26% 94,89% 43 53,43% 78,31% 89,90% 95,30% 44 54,26% 79,08% 90,43% 95,62% 45 54,97% 79,72% 90,87% 95,89% 46 55,54% 80,23% 91,21% 96,09% 47 55,97% 80,61% 91,46% 96,24% 48 56,25% 80,86% 91,63% 96,34% 49 56,40% 80,99% 91,71% 96,39% 50 56,40% 80,99% 91,71% 96,39% 51 56,25% 80,86% 91,63% 96,34% 52 55,97% 80,61% 91,46% 96,24% 53 55,54% 80,23% 91,21% 96,09% 54 54,97% 79,72% 90,87% 95,89% 55 54,26% 79,08% 90,43% 95,62% 56 53,43% 78,31% 89,90% 95,30% 57 52,46% 77,40% 89,26% 94,89% 58 51,37% 76,35% 88,50% 94,41% 59 50,16% 75,16% 87,62% 93,83% 60 48,84% 73,83% 86,61% 93,15% 61 47,42% 72,35% 85,46% 92,35% 62 45,89% 70,73% 84,16% 91,43% 63 44,28% 68,95% 82,70% 90,36% 64 42,59% 67,04% 81,08% 89,14% 65 40,82% 64,98% 79,28% 87,74% 66 38,99% 62,78% 77,29% 86,15% 67 37,11% 60,45% 75,12% 84,36% 68 35,18% 57,99% 72,77% 82,35% 69 33,22% 55,41% 70,22% 80,11% 70 31,24% 52,72% 67,49% 77,64% 71 29,24% 49,93% 64,57% 74,93% 72 27,24% 47,07% 61,49% 71,98% 73 25,26% 44,13% 58,24% 68,79% 74 23,29% 41,15% 54,85% 65,36% 75 21,34% 38,13% 51,34% 61,73% 76 19,44% 35,11% 47,73% 57,89% 77 17,59% 32,09% 44,04% 53,88% 78 15,80% 29,11% 40,31% 49,74% 79 14,08% 26,18% 36,57% 45,50% 80 12,43% 23,32% 32,86% 41,20% 81 10,87% 20,56% 29,20% 36,90% 82 9,41% 17,93% 25,64% 32,64% 83 8,04% 15,43% 22,22% 28,47% 84 6,77% 13,08% 18,97% 24,45% 85 5,61% 10,91% 15,92% 20,64% 86 4,57% 8,93% 13,10% 17,07% 87 3,64% 7,15% 10,53% 13,79% 88 2,83% 5,58% 8,25% 10,84% 89 2,13% 4,21% 6,25% 8,25% 90 1,54% 3,06% 4,55% 6,02% 91 1,06% 2,11% 3,15% 4,18% 92 0,69% 1,37% 2,05% 2,72% 93 0,41% 0,81% 1,21% 1,61% 94 0,21% 0,42% 0,63% 0,83% 95 0,09% 0,17% 0,26% 0,35%

[@Oopsall]

The hero we didn't need, but the hero we deserved

[@100nodog]

Thou art a God among man

[@ryanlott1108]

The numbers on the left are the amount of lands in your deck? So the 0.09% at 95 lands is because you are way more likely to have 5 plus lands in hand correct? Interesting, because statistically the optimal amount of lands seem to be between 33 and 60, even though 60 is far too much and 33 is approaching too few. Great breakdown though. I'd be interested in seeing the probability of hitting the 4th and 5th land drops, but I'm no statistician

[@31Uriel]

@@ryanlott1108 Correct.

[@himi6536]

@@ryanlott1108 I run 34 lands in most of my power 7-8 decks and it works most of the time. An extra land or two probably would be better, but 33 isn't too bad.

[@pixelbomb97]

Josh: You should probably have only 3 to 4 tapped lands in your deck. Me, who's trying to build a 5 color deck for under $300: I have twelve 🙃

[@cassiemay2397]

I would recommend tango lands, check lands, or pain lands, they get reprinted in precons frequently so they’re usually pretty budget. Also you can usually get by with basics if you run enough ramp spells. Or the route I took with my budget 5 color deck was using maze’s end as an alt win con so you can use that as an excuse for gates which if you’re already running them you may as well take that route

[@plain6677]

I have several good 5 colors decks and the manabase is less than $100. I only run 3 taplands: bojuka bog, path of ancestry and world tree. $50 slow lands, $10 painlands, $10 others (exotic orchard, command tower, all odyssey lands…), $30 battlebond lands. 12 basics, 38 lands. I’m very rarely color screwed but I don’t run many 2 color pips, and tend to be more green than anything else (half basics are forest).

[@satua13]

@@plain6677 $30 battlebond lands? Morphic Pool is almost $30 on its own, isn’t it?

[@jamessheffield9091]

When building 5 colour on a budget, I usually skew towards green and run almost all basics - Rampant Growth, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farseek, Kodama's Reach, Cultivate and even the 4 cmc spells are plenty of fixing.

[@palm0607]

I feel your pain....building a 5C slivers Nd ache each time I buy a fetch land 😭😭

[@Debatra.]

Another thing to keep in mind is how your Commander affects your mana. If it does something like search out lands or give you treasures, you might be able to work with a few less lands that you would need to draw.

[@mtgsus]

22:06 Don't scoff at mountains. They win games - Valakut, the molten pinacle

[@jaredg7516]

I do feel Pathways are under-rated. It's like drawing a 2 color basic and picking what you need. Doesn't entered tapped and better than pulling a bounce land depending on your color needs. I've been the one to need 1 more mana and having to bounce.

[@emptysentiment7932]

Idk why nobody appreciates the pathways lol it's a direct upgrade to basic lands in many decks

[@lucidlullaby894]

Pathways kind hurt when you play the Tainted lands and need a swamp but otherwise they’re neat

[@matusalmasi274]

I wouldnt play them in 3+ color decks, I call them USB lands, they are never on the side that you want them to be.

[@emptysentiment7932]

@@lucidlullaby894 yeah I wouldn't run them with the tainted lands

[@emptysentiment7932]

@@matusalmasi274 still an upgrade over basics

[@cteal2018]

As far as color distribution, I go one step further than counting color of spells, I like to count the number of colored mana pips of all my spells...this way multicolored spells and spells with 2 or 3 of the same are given their proper weight

[@SirVoidest]

“I cannot think of any player that is naturally running too many lands.” Hello, it is me. The too many land man

[@paulhorton5168]

probably me too. my commander decks mostly run 40 lands on average. There have been too many times where I did not have a land drop when I needed them. Sometimes a flood happens but it's not too common with the decks I play.

[@comvnche]

I actually think they did not convincingly reason why 37 Lands is the upper boundry, they should have showed how the distribution behaves for more then 37 lands. And also inclded the number of rocks in the equations.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

I'm running... 32? lands plus land ramp plus artifact ramp plus a dousing dagger plus a mana doubler. all that and most of the deck doesn't need more than 5? while mostly functioning around 4~ mana. it's so hard to figure out where exactly you're supposed to be with lands, but dead drawing into land when you don't have a draw-heavy deck is REALLY bad for sure, so if you're running like 40 lands you need land ramp for deck thinning and probably a lot of draw.

[@jonathankuneli3463]

@@paulhorton5168 I would say then your problem is card draw or card sorting. I would considering running some of those scry lands. Pulling out some lands, then running more card draw and mana rocks. In my more focused decks, like 6 to 6.5 power level area, like not competitive but fun strong casual decks, i run min 8-10 card draws. Like I always find at minimum 8 cards for the specific affect of draw, then another 2 or so that can also do that and overlapp with other strategies i am running. Like if I am running demons: ill add blood gift demon, and phyrexian arena.

[@antonfeyerherm1180]

My girlfriend has a deck with 72 lands :l

[@jessetufts616]

Love the new intros!

[@ryanhutchison7178]

Sameeeeee

[@alhsr1]

This video was so helpful! I always keep my land count on the lower side, but after hearing these draw percentages I realized that I need more land to improve my deck.

[@eddight4863]

Loved the episode. Only thing I'd recommend also keeping in consideration is pips. If you're a two color deck but all your red spells only need one mountain but your white spells need 2+, you should factor that into what colors you need your lands to produce.

[@MCvicRPG]

For amount. If im not building an artifact or landfall deck i usually start with 37 land slots and then look at the manabase at the end of deckbuilding and see what excactly my deck needs. Including if i need more or less slots for lands.

[@titanium0002]

same but i start with 36 and it usually stays that way except for a few decks that go do a little

[@SovereignwindVODs]

I do similar but with 40. It ALWAYS comes down, but it prevents me from going too low by starting a little too high

[@waaaaaaah5135]

Same, I always start with 37 and see later if I need more, or can cut 1 or 2

[@MCvicRPG]

They also talk about cutting lands when adding a lot of ramp. But aside from ramping i value hitting my regular landdrops a lot. So unless the deck curves out real early. I tend to not go below 35 even if i also run like 20 ramp. (My philosify is that if you can fit it in, you can never have too much ramp and draw in the deck. But maybe i Just like that value train)

[@theonlymegumegu]

27:48 to determine my color balance, i go a step further and count color pips, so i can take into account that i may have some cards in my deck that are very color intensive and weight my mana with that in mind.

[@repeataftermeme75]

I agree basic lands are the bread and butter. Anything else is a bonus and if your deck can use it throw it in. If it won’t benefit the way you want then leave it out. Other cards like artifacts depending on how you feel can help.

[@PGHproductions]

This is a fantastic guide. As a fairly new player, I really want more in-depth guides like this on the fundamentals of deckbuilding and gameplay

[@matheuscastello6554]

really enjoying these intros, they add such a nice charm to the show, i think it was a great decision to start doing them, props to the command zone team, haha!

[@plain6677]

Best (non ultra expensive) land is scavenger grounds. It saves you more than you think. It’s in 100% of my 17 decks.

[@TheHyperBeaver]

This is why, as a graveyard player, I've been running Disallow over Counter spell. It almost always kills abilities like this to keep my yard in tact, as almost all major graveyard hate cards hate on the graveyard via an ability. And it still stops Farewell!

[@RazgrizAce67]

Yep, just like Bojuka Bog should be in every black deck. I also always run some version of Strip Mine just also saves you a ton from things like Coffers, Cradle, or Field of the Dead.

[@Niedomysm]

I personally miss older commander games where we were ok with 3 cmc mana rocks and tapped lands. Commander now just feels like it's an arms race. I almost never see jank decks anymore. There was a period of time where you could get a legendary creature and then just pull cards out of your collection to fill the deck and it would be fine.

[@roelreyes4033]

You haven't seen my tribal dragon deck then

[@hoppeltrottel7484]

It all depends on how you build your deck. Building on a budget requires more thought, but it's very rewarding to win with a budget deck against a deck which costs several hundred. I strongly advise to run more lands (37 - 39) when on a budget and add more ramp (12 - 15 cards). Llanowar Scout & Scaled Herbalist can be great additions. Add at least 12 pieces of card draw / selection spells, and fill the rest of the deck with your favorite spells & some removal. And don't forget to add some mana sinks (activated abilities on creatures, artifacts, enchantments and lands), so you can always spend the majority of your mana even if you can't or don't want to cast spells that turn. Boom, efficient deck. And always remember to have fun. It's a game. ;-)

[@bradsimpson8724]

Our group still plays like this more often than not. We're all long-time players with thousands of cards to draw on, and game night for us is almost never competitive. We'll occasionally play a faster game with higher-powered decks, but the big ridiculous plays and janky combinations we can all laugh about over a few beers is more what the game is about for us.

[@Flip4Crypt]

I'm loving these intros so much I'm basically running 35 lands in literally all of my decks, unless it's like Kinnan/Jhoira with 31 lands, or Landfall with 41 lands

[@goatsfluff]

I didn't catch it being corrected in the video, but I think it matters; filter lands tap for mana on their own. It's just that they tap for *colorless* mana. But if you put one of its two colors in, then you can add two mana of any combination of its two colors. Most of the lands you tap will generally act as sources of colorless anyway (unless your deck was built to have a maximum number of colored pips). I think they're pretty good. They don't fetch, but they're pretty neat, and contrary to Josh Lee Kwai's words, you can play your turn 1 Sol Ring with them ;) Good episode! I poke a little fun, but I enjoy these. They're printing a lot more Treasure cards though, so I suppose things might get a bit complex. And green's getting the best deal of all. Who cares about a Yavimaya when you can have an enchantment that makes your lands tap for treasures?

[@comparatorclock]

at 28:17: I find that coutning up color devotion can be quite useful for this, deck-wide.

[@austinturgoose]

Thanks for this! Making my first from scratch commander deck, helped me a lot!

[@Jaebird88]

One thing I'll tend to do is slightly skew the ratio of basic lands to not be heavy on one over the other, despite what the ratio of mana symbols is. Nothing drastic, just to ensure I'll have some extra for any abilities which require mana to activate. And I consider Ore-Scale Guardian a neat addition to any deck (with red, obviously) which ends up with lands in the graveyard.

[@efrenarellano5372]

I like to play the "filter lands" (i.e. Fetid Heath) because they do tap for one colorless wing-ding mana or can filter to get the other 2 colors. Very useful for sure!

[@Greg501-]

They forgot it isn't a bad land

[@damonlouis6536]

you can get to 2blue w one land drop! best in 3color decks w color intense casting costs

[@PokeStatsStudios]

Land bases are the most "pay to win" part of magic.

[@henrylopez4206]

I think I disagree with this. I have won games playing a 5 color deck that had only basics. My brother-in-law regularly plays 20+ basics in all of his decks. Expensive bases definitely are nice to have, but they are absolutely not required if you know your deck well enough.

[@PokeStatsStudios]

@@henrylopez4206 you don't think your deck would be objectively better if you swapped 10 of those basics for OG duals? A forest for a cradle?

[@caseybrakejr1295]

@@PokeStatsStudios thats not what they said. They are saying they disagree because they believe the cards in the deck determine the power level way more then the land base. Yes, good mana bases are nice to have and can be just better but at the end of the day, "pay to win" is decided by whats actually winning the game.

[@PokeStatsStudios]

@@caseybrakejr1295 lands are "cards in a deck." And having 10 duals will always be better than having 10 guild gates. Therefore, the more money you spend on your mana base, the better it gets, the better your deck gets. There is no trick to building a strong land base, it's the most solved part of magic.

[@caseybrakejr1295]

@@PokeStatsStudios ok but thought experiment, you have to build the most competitive deck you possibly can for commander. The catch is you have $10,000 to spend on your lands and $100 on the rest of the deck, or you can spend $10,000 on the nonland cards with $100 spent on lands. I would choose $10k on nonlands cause I can build a pretty good mana base (without gates because they are the worse lands) for even $20. Casting spells like rhystic, moxs, fow, mana drain, thoracle, demonic cultivation will all increase the power level of a deck more then playing an og dual instead of a shock land.

[@cosmic_sporks8051]

Getting back into magic and helping a friend out I usually run a 35 basic lands deck with 5 special lands. It’s never failed me and usually my “special lands” tap for one of any mana or add one mana of any color. But watching this was still super helpful 🙏🏽

[@katycrisler8528]

So funny that I was so wrong about the bounce lands! I never play the ones I own and thought them worthless 😂 glad to have a man idea of what to do with them now!

[@friendofyoda5194]

Came for the episode, stayed to say Jordan was right on the Extra Turns deal!

[@lordforce5546]

In my playgroup I was the first to care about lands. All my friends were still upgrading spells in their precons when I was trading for new 2 color lands

[@JediMB]

Taplands with basic land types are definitely more viable when you're also playing a decent number of fetches to pair with them, since that gives you better control over when they come out of your deck. If you need the mana right away, you can fetch a shockland or a basic, but if the mana's going to go unused this turn you should prioritize maximum fixing with something like a triome.

[@alexbudnik7004]

Nothing better than fetching triomes turn 1 and 2 in a 5 color deck and having perfect mana the rest of the game

[@luckyskin09]

Unless I totally missed it, you guys didn't meantion the checklands (is that what they're called, from M10, M11 & dominaria ? glacial fortress, rootbound crag, isolated chapel). Besides fetches and shocks, those are the lands I will always run in my multicolored decks. With the amount of lands with land types now like triomes, sunken hollows, fetchable dual snows, etc, beside turn 1, those will 95% always come into play untapped.

[@MarvelOfRain]

27:10 that is why I ussually play mostly swamps in my mono black. Always include Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold and Castle Lochtwain, but other then those only about 2-3 other utility lands. You also want expedition maps and other ways to tutor your Cabal Coffers. Unless you are a super aggro deck it is so worth it!

[@CamraMaan]

The show-lands (57:27) don't require basic lands, they check for land types, meaning triomes/etc will count. Due to fetch lands in most of my decks, I maximize the number of lands I can search for, all of which are usable for this so... I think they're either borderline tapped/untapped, or simply untapped.

[@arsenalfanrichi]

They are better than their rep imo, but probably not for slower strategies. Just my opinion though

[@Spike-hl2mw]

Another thing to consider with color spread is the color costs to both cast your commander and use any of its abilities. Multiple pips of a color in your commander's costs should cause you to include more sources of that color. Basically, the calculus needs to be not just "can I get enough mana to cast my commander on or ahead of schedule, but also "can I get the amount of each color I need to cast and use my commander." Your commander is of course the only card you are guaranteed to be able to cast, and presumably you want to cast it as early as possible, and so the color spread of your mana base should be built primarily around that.

[@davidmitchell353]

Frank Karsten's 2018 CF article "how many colored mana sources do you need to consistently cast your spells?..." Has been my go to spreadsheet for commander mana bases.

[@mjohn3126]

I was just brewing a new esper commander that was spoiled but I was unsure of how to build the mana base so this was perfect timing

[@CheckYourBulk]

Enjoyed the intention of this introduction. Feeling that Rhystic Study influence that felt like something Josh admired in another creator.

[@extremely_mediocre6562]

I used a bounce land to get a new Boseiju i had played earlier in the game a few days ago! Got the table out of a staff of domination combo.

[@chadbrownlee3677]

Great video! I really opened my eyes to certain lands, particularly the bounce lands.

[@gethan3189]

Really good episode and weirdly I have also been internally debating jamming bounce lands back into at least my 2 colour decks. One (incredibly minor and barely worth mentioning point) is that I still consider spell MDFC's as full tapped lands since the spell effect is often over costed by one, so you still end up kind of paying that tapped land price even when its cast as a spell. This doesnt apply to all of them (god bless you Malakir Rebirth) and I don't think it takes too much away from the really great ones (here's to Bala Ged Recovery).

[@DetroitTyler]

I think 37 -1 or +1 is a great starting point for any deck. I think even if you have a ridiculous ramp package in the deck you most likely don't want to dip too much further than 34, remember if you are playing 3 to 5 colors you most likely will have fetchlands and those will thin the land count from your deck making it harder to draw into more lands. Good rule of thumb is only seriously drop lands from 37 if you not only have a good ramp package, but also a good card draw package/engines, if you have no problem drawing cards, then you might want to dip down to 36, 35 lands etc until you hit that sweet spot. Just playtest that number will become apparent.

[@SSolemn]

The problem is that lands are EXPENSIVE. For such an important part of the game, most of the time you can't purchase the ideal mana base. Plus that is even without considering the reserve list cards...... Is not that people don't know how to build a mana base IMO.

[@jamesgratz4771]

No it’s not but whales like the command zone just can buy whatever lands they want so it doesn’t matter

[@jake7915]

I dont proxy much because I like to collect the cards. But i could care less about collecting lands. I just proxy them lol

[@ROMANTIKILLER2]

@@jake7915 that's interesting because I've always been fascinated by lands since starting playing in the late 90s, so they became the heart of my collection. But for non-collectors players, yeah, no point in spending so much money for a game piece, I agree.

[@linkshadow2]

Tbh, I think lands are one of the best ways for players to show some individuality, as well as their designs are always so unique. I love lands a lot ❤️

[@SSolemn]

@@linkshadow2 I am really into lands too, I play tons of blue and the new Rivendell land is in most of my decks now (I own a ton of Otawara's too 😹) Also the new The Tree City is amazing, I have 2 of the seasons and I'm looking for the other 2

[@johndeemer8328]

Just the video I was looking for. Explained a lot of questions with certain land cards

[@XenoFireStar]

In regards to tough casting costs, I have Unnatural Growth in my Tovolor Werewolves deck. Every time I play something that lets me search for lands, I always search for green just in case I run into that one spell. IT's usually fine, and once you have like 5 or 6 green, you can start looking for red.

[@Sicho84]

what has not really been discussed (unless I missed it) about Evolving Wilds and other (slow) fetchlands is that those lands help to thin down your library. There are situations where you don't want your next card draw to be a land and by cracking a fetchland for a basic or something, you ever so slightly make the odds of not topdecking another land better.

[@charliewright2667]

It's pretty much a negligible amount to say that you might thin your 100 card deck by 2 or 3 cards. When jt comes to like the sorcery that says put 10 lands into play, or something like land tax which lets you get three lands per turn though, you're absolutely right, and that's why land tax is underrated lol

[@Sicho84]

​@@charliewright2667 92 card library ;) 100 card deck minus the commander, who is in the command zone, minus the starting hand :D

[@charliewright2667]

@@Sicho84 technically correct, but my point is that either way it's an incredibly minute, bordering on useless impact on your odds of actually drawing a nonland.

[@Oon86]

There's a new cycle of common 'fetch lands' from SNC, where you need to immediately sacrifice them when they ETB to fetch a basic land... not sure how to assess those yet~

[@andreviljoen7157]

They should be treated as spells not lands. Not even Urborg/Yavimaya can make them tap for mana

[@kalebs6201]

I learned this the hard way recently when building an All Will be One theme deck lead by the new Atraxa and used the new precon and added blue without working on the landbase, only throwing in basics and a few duel lands i had, and in a four color deck it was bad and i had no color fixing

[@tylerbinder8698]

XD the pathways are like the best though... Its two basic lands you just choose which one you pick. About feeling bad you chose the wrong one, well if you just played the basic you say you'd rather have then you'd have only had the singular color you got from the pathway anyways

[@tylerbinder8698]

Like in five color you'd be crazy not to run 5 pathways, but ultimately this is from the point of view of someone who doesnt own or use fetch lands which everyone loves so much xD

[@Deedotcharles]

I feel like I needed this video, glad I was was able to go back through the archive

[@ColorwaveCraftsCo]

The new intros to these last couple episodes have been **chefs kiss** also I am so happy this video exists with the updated info about all the new types of lands we have been getting recently.

[@JustABrokenToy]

this is a great episode to have, and the two biggest takeaways that I got were: there's not much upside to run Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse over even a guildgate in a two-color deck (unless you care about landfall or filling the GY); MDFC lands are probably worth running in those few tap-land slots. I'll have to look at the ZNR lands again and reevaluate some decks. back to point #1, after Sol Ring and Arcane Signet the next two cards I put in every deck were Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse. I think it's because my first 3 decks were 3+ colors, but my most recent 3 have been two-color. I should cut Evolving/Terramorphic from at least one of those. one other point about mana bases is that I think you can have a basic-heavy list that cares about land types and can more consistently run shadow/reveal lands, check lands, tango lands, tainted lands, and basic tutors. If you're not leaning into those, then you can replace more basics with pathways and other color-specific utility lands (like new channel lands). if your (situationally) untapped sources are heavily reliant on land types or basics then you need to dedicate a lot of slots to support it. I think this is a good budget mana base strategy, though.

[@pedrobrito2158]

I usually put around 15 draw cards in my decks, so they tend to work fine with 32 to 35 lands.

[@happybrain2674]

what counts as carddraw? if you cantrip, draw 2, at least 3, or more?

[@generationgaming9087]

@@happybrain2674 idk about OP but I’d say Ponder, brainstorm, and other 1 or 2 drop card advantage cards. Ether it’s scry or drawing

[@happybrain2674]

​@@generationgaming9087 im just asking cause there are different oppinions, how to count things. some would say if you scry 3 times it kinda is like drawing other say no you really need to draw at least 3+ cards otherwise its just advantage and there are so much more things, like tutoring, selfmill, landramp. and here it would be especially interresting to hear, if we take the 50% of your cards should somehow give you mana (said by commandzone), how much should be carddraw/advantage and at wich point does it count as that?

[@pedrobrito2158]

@@happybrain2674 i know it's a cliche, but it depends on the deck. I don't run 15 cantrips, like brainstorm, ponder and so on, unless it's a spellslinger deck or something like that. Of course I use some "classic" cards, like sign in blood and night's whisper in black, for example, because they are amazing. And I try to put other cards that do other stuff but also have some kind of draw. For example, Callous Bloodmage: it's graveyard hate, but it could also provide you card draw if you need (or some tokens) - I like it because of the flexibility.

[@benturtl9076]

A big up for fetch lands, even if the searched lands come in tapped is that they thin out your deck. Which is especially usefull in a Gishath deck for example to hit more dinos with Gishath

[@WCD_Media]

I only play 35 to 36 lands in my Commander decks, plus various mana rocks because I do experience getting mana flooded quite often. This has lead me to run more cycling lands so that if I do get flooded, I can cycle them away to draw more, gas.

[@fl1735]

I find it funny that Josh mentioned that he only really plays evolving wilds or terramorphic expanse in multi-colour decks. I personally run them in every deck no matter the amount of colours. For the very simple reason that using a basic-fetch land like that thins your deck out. Instead of having used 1 card out of your 99, you used 2, this increases the chance you draw other cards, be them lands or just playable spells. Sure, late game they might feel a little sour, but in general I find that between Myriad, Evolving and Terramorphic, that's thinning your deck out by 7 card. This means that you now have a 7-8 percent higher chance of drawing any other card in your deck. Meaning that by turn 4 you could be drawing cards with the same chance as if it was already turn 8. Of course, the regular painfetches and panoramas and such have the same effect. But you need to think about the fact that commander is balanced around the fact that a deck must have exactly 99 cards, partially because of probability. Imagine a mono-colour deck. You are playing with all of the three basic-fetches. You are now basically playing with 95 cards in your deck. Playing mono-green? Blighted Woodlands, now you're playing with 93. (Of course, outside of mono-colour they also fix your colours, which is nice!) Thanks for coming to my TED Talk!

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Amd this is half the reason I am considering them, it is a tempting subtle effect on the library I learned from a friend who played Legacy back in the day. The other reason is that they are gorgeous and interactive. I just like them, possibly due to Time Spiral nostalgia.

[@DracoSkull13]

I run 40 usually following the modern/standard of 24 lands 36 other ratio, and i'm coming up mostly with 2 lands in my hands, so do i need to learn how to shuffle better

[@captianbacon]

I absolutely love panoramas. They have never felt clunky to me and there's plenty of times where I just play them t3 and that colorless let's me play my 4 drop comander and the next turn I just need to play a 3 mana spell after my comander for a ton of value, often in prosper. And I just don't need that panorama and 1 mana so I fetch or I play it like t6 and the colorless is just there no downside

[@aurinko575]

Yeah I like the panoramas as well, especially in decks that aren't too color intensive or ones that do like landfall. Most of the other fetches need to be used before your next turn after playing them, but panorama is there waiting to be cracked when you have your landfall payoff online.

[@captianbacon]

@@aurinko575 in 2 and 3 and mono white they are extremely useful.

[@shannon5286]

So glad to see that the Xerox concept is being addressed.

[@shadowmyst9661]

I once kept a One Land hand in my opening hand after a mulligan and never missed a single Land Drop the whole game, and had the strongest board in the late game with a high chance of winning. That game however was cut short and left unfinished because the Game Store I was playing at hand to close. And I was playing a Land deck (Deserts) too.

[@empurress77]

I play a lot of "Comes in play tapped" lands. I play a lot of things that allow me to play more than one land a turn. That helps a lot. I play a lot of "colorless" lands and i have a lot of ways to make them provide color mana along with them. I play a LOT of card draw. These factors should definitely be considered. One other thing, I had a Myr deck i ran at 100 cards that would mana flood if i had more than 8 lands in it. Very special case.

[@RickMattison314]

I'm making an early comment (before the video is even halfway through). Even though I've played MTG for about 2.5 years, I've learned that having mana sources that can produce all colors in a 4-5 color deck is a huge help, especially 5-color decks. You won't have a perfect mana base, but those rainbow lands will get you super close to that much more efficiently. TL;DR: Rainbow lands give better benefits the more colors you have in a deck.

[@aranc23]

I watched another podcast/video on the same topic not that long ago... that one was mostly a catalog of excuses the presenters use to cut lands. This video is a lot more useful with actionable advice. Well done!

[@faerie7dragon]

The Taplands I run are Base Camp (Access to 5 colors, in theme, foil) Field of the Dead (Too good not to play it) and Bojuka Bog (Free roll for Graveyard Hate) and a World Tree (Provides fixing, can be a win condition with Maskwood Nexus)

[@robertt.4176]

I generally start at 40. I'll remove 1 for every 2 ramp but I only count the modal tapped lands from zendikar rising as half a land. So my decks generally end at about 37-38 possible lands

[@thewaffler43]

40 is the way

[@F3A5T]

As a Lord Wingrace main... Lands are my favorite.

[@piotrsykut6999]

As a Lord Windgrace I always like to say that I run 45+ lands and I still want more so often

[@HeartfireGames]

It's not a huge factor but note that companions don't affect your starting hand, since they are considered 'in the sideboard' and therefore not taking a spot in the 99 (companion decks effectively have 101 cards including the companion).

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

Here’s the thing that I think a lot of people don’t realize: 24/60=40/100

[@danacoleman4007]

I feel like that would be obvious to anyone smart enough to play this game. but, maybe not.

[@abitofsupport601]

A good way to test your land balance is if you have a 3-4 color/cost commander then you should have a land/mana count that almost always lets you play it on that turn or earlier. So a 4 drop on turn 3 or 4. 3 drop on turn 3. Etc. In my Alela deck my goal is always turn 3-4. Doesn't apply for higher cost commanders or commander's that are not the focus of the deck.

[@thrillhouse4151]

Wow i hadn’t realized the Bounce Lands have been getting buffed for a couple years, I haven’t been running them but with channel lands and MDFCs I can see the appeal. Seems fun with extra land drops and stuff, I could imagine lines where you bounce your other bounce land just to start an engine.

[@daringplays3966]

I do this with my Obuun deck, I get to a spot where I have 2-3 land drops per turn and just chain bounce lands together to buff up Obuun with the landfall triggers, super fun and niche but I love it ^_^

[@alexanderblixt1221]

You don't even need two, a bounce land can bounce itself.

[@matheuscastello6554]

oh the topic of fetches, i would also add that it is legal to run off-color fetches, as their color identity is generic, so like, running misty rainforest on your grixis deck, perfectly allowed, and lets you find your watery graves and steam vents! it can be a pretty big boost to two-three color decks especially, and i imagine a lot of players don't feel right playing against off-color fetches (both for their strength and the oddity/immersion break of the grixis player playing a card that's colored half green), so it is something to keep in mind, but if that's something that's cool with your playgroup, absolutely something you can do, and it can power up your landbase a lot, as fetches are really strong, only if they reference only one of your colors instead of two!

[@krevin543]

Dad always said- “buy land” Changed my life. Lol most of my decks run about 35 lands. They typically include 3 mana rocks minimum, sol ring, Arcane signet, and a mana fixer like Dimir Signet, chromatic lantern, or utility rock like Thought Vessel.

[@RayJ717]

I really like the bounce lands and feel they are under-rated for sure. They do have a couple of advantages that weren't really mentioned, specifically they are great at providing an extra land drop when they don't hit a utility land, and since you can tap the land you are going to bounce, it is about the same downside as a regular tap land. Then you can replay the land you bounced without being down mana since they make 2 mana. They also can just bounce themselves in landfall decks to ensure you get all your landfall triggers.

[@associatesroofing649]

How many fetch lands is to many. since they hunt for a land thats one less land to draw, does that statistically lower your chance to draw a land?

[@lewkiz]

The reason why everyone should buy a pack of proxy lands. For example, three color deck: 11x Fetch lands (9 fetch + prismatic vista + fabled passage) 3x Dual lands 3x Shock Lands Command Tower Exotic Orchard Ancient Tomb City of Brass Mana Confluence => 22 lands that pretty much tap for all colors and should be auto-includes in any 3+ color deck. Add the lands that ping you, the battle bond lands, and one of each basic land, and you now have 31 lands. "The default land base"

[@didupaytheone2678]

These videos have some great info,ideas for your deck,in my opinion u can have the coolest deck ,and the lands dont work then u will have a bad time ? If u can find the balance between them , I'll love to see that deck go off!!

[@vojtechvanek1686]

Here is ez recipe: 35 lands default. For each color beyond first, +1 land. For each 3 of mana fix 1 and less CMC 1 land less. For each 5 of mana fix CMC 2 1 land less. For avg CMC 2.5. For each 0.25/0.5 up/down, add/subtract 1 land. For cedh -1 land. Tapped lands max 3-4 unless justified. Shuffle well and let simmer.

[@WolfShadowmancer]

I actually legit like Every Man Jack. Good stuff. Good sponsor!

[@breadbread4226]

For me, a two land hand is worth keeping if: I have a low mana curve. I Run a lot of low cost ramp, and I already have one or two of those ramp spells in hand.

[@hahahafunniness]

just built a 32 land deck that has an avg cmc of 2.4 and its been working great. really depends on what your deck is doing. 30-35 seem like the range for me

[@RazgrizAce67]

Utility lands i usually run: If I don't have black in a deck (where I would run Bojuka Bog), I'm almost always going to run Scavenging Grounds as a way of having graveyard hate. I also will run at least one of Strip Mine/Tectonic Edge/Wasteland/Ghost Quarter to ensure I have a way to stop lands like Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle or Field of the Dead. Also run every Cannel Land and mythic MDFC I can since those are basically free rolls.

[@awboqm]

24:45 when I cut lands like that, I always try to notice how many times I get the card I put in and if I would have rather that card been the land.

[@ChronoBolt]

Really loving the opening thesis statements in the episodes lately!

[@omarmuniz1497]

I run a 5 color deck an Play 3/4 colored mana spells of same color. With my type of ramp, it's easier when you have options. The majority are also tap lands, so when that happens I make the most of it by running Domain cards or Domain support by looking for spells that look for basic land TYPE.

[@TheAlmostOtaku]

First off great video, ill be sharing it for the foreseeable future especially with new players. I will say I called you out on the patreon like 2 or so years ago and the response I got from one of you was that making videos was expensive even when you were making 7k per video. Im glad you changed stuff up. However I was attack by others in comments Over it.

[@drgatorkid]

bounce lands are also really good for triggering landfall if you have no other lands in hand

[@JuanitaHarrisMissHarrisinParis]

I am a novice player and am so happy this exists. Thank you!

[@isawaletomo1680]

I use the slow fetches in my Yarrok deck, with a lot of focus on landfall, and Field of the Dead, for yet more fetches and triggers.

[@selfmarv]

I remember a discusson with Jumbo about Reliquary Tower a few years ahoi i believe. Interesting to see how Evaluation changed over time.

[@garypitcher2365]

Patreon changes are excellent, I was previously wary of signing up due to it being per video, per month is much more easy to budget for!

[@aurinko575]

You could set up a cap for it so you never ended up paying more than you'd allowed it to. Current system is actually a lot worse for backers but there's always a useful idiot to commend people for shafting themselves :D

[@TonyScimeca]

Temple of the false god is such an auto include in golgari to me. With cards like yavimaya, urborg, world tree, dryad of Ilysian - it’s so easy to get this online before the 5 land restriction

[@TrueTgirl]

In a vacuum there's a lot of good advice and recommendations here, but man oh man if I took a shot every time the command zone crew said something that makes me feel like I live in a different universe than them then I'd be in the hospital with like 3 of every 4 episodes lately, and this one might kill me outright.

[@Zarbon000]

Why you run way fewer or more lands than they do?

[@simoncss1]

Did Josh make at least 2 mistakes? Panoramas come in untapped, so they don’t present all 3 of the common shortcomings. Shadowmoor/Eventide “filter” lands DO tap for generic mana on their own. Even the Odyssey “filter” lands, I feel, have a solid place in 2-3 colored decks that wish for untapped fixing in early turns (check out Marath) & still pretty good later turns. 👍that WotC actually made those regular includes in recent Commander decks. Compared to the Guildgates & Refuges we used to get, infinitely better.

[@clausfussel2932]

Downside to not having not enough basics. It's easier to be dead to a wave of vitriol (which I've actually more or less killed a player with), Price of Progress (which I find running a lot more) and Blood Moon (or Magus of the Moon). Lesson, don't be too greedy.