The Ultimate Neumann u87ai Clone vs a Real u87ai - The Dead Ringer - The Microphone Playboy Podcast

Which mic is which? I'll reveal at the end of the show. Plus, why I have logged off from GroupDIY for the last time. Take a listen to this blind side by side comparison of the Neumann u87ai and my ultimate DIY clone, The Dead Ringer.

[@calvinbotha4859]

Man the dead ringer sounds soooooo good!!! Nicely done Mark!!

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thank you, Calvin! I’m really glad you dig it.

[@TimoDoesVoiceover]

Very well done. At certain points I thought I heard a slight difference. Just a little more weight in the low mids on which I thought was the u87. Turns out it was the dead ringer. And then listening back I'm not sure I hear that push afterall. Good luck with finding what inspires you next.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thank you very much for putting it under the microscope to help confirm what my ears were telling me. That is extremely valuable feedback.

[@rags5721]

Your 87 clone sounds virtually identical to the real thing! I'd be too scared to attempt to build one. :D "If you want the truth to stand before you, do not be for or against. The conflict between for and against is the mind's worst disease."

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

I really appreciate that! This audience of mic enthusiasts is the best possible focus group, so thank you for lending your ears. And BTW, that is a really great quote. I’ll have to remember that one.

[@TheRecordist]

WOW. First off, I'm sorry to lear about GroupDIY devolving to politics and douchery. I'm in many groups where some ass-nugget loves to say, "USE YOUR EARS" to a newb trying to figure it all out. I hate that. And it gets worse, as you say in this podcast. As for the Dead Ringer, I actually. correctly identified the genuine U87ai. This is only because the Dead Ringer is slightly more sibilant. Not in a bad way. Just has slightly crispier highs. The Neumann also has a tad bit more saturation.That's my take from listening on a pair of 7506 cans. I think you did a superb job on that mic. The difference is almost completely negligible. I couldn't tell them apart on either my phone or my Kali monitors. Just a fantastic job, man!

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thank you for putting it under the spyglass and lending your ears! You’re right that there is this type of exclusionary behavior wherever there is a forum where “experts” and “info seekers” meet and GDIY is no exception, but when I have asked myself repeatedly over the last few years why mic DIY isn’t exploding in popularity, I think that this pervasive smugness, brusqueness and passive aggressive behavior is what kills a newb’s enthusiasm and that pisses me off.

[@A.Darrell.Production]

to this point...those same "nuggets" helped usher me away from the hate culture escalating through reddit. i would ask a question on let's say using reaper's daw....(read idiotic question, cuz i be the dumb and seek the knowledge) but i would never receive the guidance i desired. i did receive a lifetime's worth of hate and discontent and for that, my therapist is glad. just glad glad glad.

[@TheRecordist]

@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff I couldn’t agree more! Drives me nuts. Everyone has to start somewhere. I mainly lurk now as opposed to contributing. I’m on Group DIY and have been for more than a year. I’ve learned a lot just by reading and re-reading all kinds of stuff, just like you mentioned you did. But I don’t think I’ll be commenting. I think this was a great podcast episode. Perhaps my favorite so far for many reasons. Also, I miss your typed letters over in the top secret underground clandestine covert surreptitious furtive group whose ultra stealthy nomenclature shall never be spoken aloud.

[@TheRecordist]

@@A.Darrell.Production we need a welcoming audio tech group somewhere where the admins and mods are aggressively booting ass-flappers who discourage learning.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

@@TheRecordist During the decade or so that I was pursuing mic DIY, I found GroupDIY to be a great resource of info. And I’m sure you’re not the only lurker who doesn’t post, possibly because it fails to be an inviting site to participate in. You know, I do miss the stealth group, but it just felt really important to harness this reignited energy I have now after finally taking a couple of weeks off work this summer to clear my head, and then use it as the impetus to get my ass off the Internet and reprioritize how I use my time. After just a week, my phone tells me my screen time average is already down an hour a day, so that’s a great start. If I do a few more auditions each day with the time I’d otherwise be using hanging out online, I’ve already won.

[@DaveSS-xi4pn]

WOW!, TELL IT LIKE IT IS MARK!!!!!😂

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thanks! I always try to. Brutal honesty is the only way to confront things that make me uncomfortable.

[@DaveSS-xi4pn]

Yessss!

[@sergeybegaikin4364]

Congratulations, Mark. I've listened to your podcast through the Antelope Discrete 4 and Senns HD300. The difference is very negligible if it is there. Sometimes I hear the drilling "s" on Neumann sometimes not. So I guess that Dead Ringer doesn't have much that high frequency bump bell between 5 and 15kHz. But I doubt you can EQ mic A to achieve that sound of Mic B. Can't speak much about GroupDIY as it is very helpfull place indeed.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

The close scrutiny is very much appreciated as you are part of a focus group here whose opinion I value a lot. I really want to say thanks for taking the time and making the effort to listen that closely and helping me confirm that the Dead Ringer lives up to its name.

[@BoydTimothy]

I downloaded this to listen to while I hiked up in the mountains today. Thank you for being part of that journey! In terms of the microphones, I couldn't tell a difference. Every time I thought I was preferring one you'd switch and it sounded identical. Excellent work on that build! In terms of the forum, I'm saddened to hear all that. I too have learned so much out there and one of the reasons I visited was to rub shoulders with people like you sharing their journey. I'm not trying to convince you to re-join. I haven't been out there as much myself because I've got what I need for mics, though I'll still probably build an ORS / Fuchs at some point, inspired by your excellent success. In any case, thank you for being one of the good guys that encourage, help, and lead by example! Your demos are also top notch!

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

And thank you for taking me along! I'm flattered to have been chosen to fill your earbuds during your hike. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen closely to the comparisons. And I'm very glad to hear that we were able to discuss mic stuff together on GDIY like decent humans should. GDIY will always be a great resource for learning what makes mics tick, and should you build yourself a mic, please feel free to leave a comment to let me know how it went.

[@francoisvalade]

You are so right! thank you Marc

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

You’re very welcome!

[@enekotartun]

I was listening to this in my car, driving home. And I couldn't appreciate any difference, zero. Usually, almost always, II am able to notice some difference between mic A vs mic 2. Not just in this channel but in a couple more that I follow. So I got home, got my Sony headphones, and I still couldn't appreciate any difference. I am dont have a musical "brain," and I definitely can not get the " nuance " a talented or educated ear can... but I am not useless either and i can appreciate real quality. If you tell us, at the end of the video, that both were u87, and you were trolling a bit to make a point, I would have believed. Superb clone. Ps: listening to the end of the podcast, it seems your body/brain/soul/spirit/intellect (choose the right one😅) is asking for more challenges in life. Porpoise is the only thing that makes life tolerable and meaningful. No matter how big or apparently insignificant, that porpoise can seem to others.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

First of all. Thank you very much. And thank you for taking the time to listen to the whole episode. Second, though I hadn't thought of it that way, after reading your comment, I think you're onto something. I do feel like I'm transitioning past the DIY mic challenge to something more. I hadn't put my finger on it until you said that, but I can totally see that. Thank you!

[@virgogreg]

I would prefer the one with the Neumann badge ...apart from that identical

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thanks Greg! That’s exactly why the badge is there and costs so much, to inspire confidence that you are putting the best version of your product out there.

[@Danny-Lightning-WR]

listening to this again but this time on some real headphones, i really don't hear much of a difference on the HD 6XX headset super super close

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thank you, Danny, for revisiting it and taking a closer listen. I’m glad to hear you still feel they’re that close.

[@subliminalspectrum]

Man, I ignored that thread after the first couple days. Hate to hear it kept devolving from there.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

I wanted to ignore it, but it kept bothering me that this lack of respect being shown was truly indicative of why GroupDIY is rarely more than the same dozen or so people posting in each section, and why newcomers hardly ever stick around. The mods don't care. After seeing some 300 posts, covering 10+ pages of people arguing over arguing, while the mods ignored a 9:1 ratio of those who said they didn't want politics on the site, I realized this inner voice that had been urging me to move on for a while was right all along and it was time to jet regardless of how it all panned out.

[@2futureanthem]

Your clone sounds nice. But the biggest difference what I felt was the top end. U87 sounds more rounded and silky. Your clone sounds a bit solid. I don't know if this is caused by the capsule itself or aged transfomer.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

It’s possibly the capsule as it is a Arienne v1 and with her upcoming v2 she says she has more finely tuned the high end to better match the Neumann, so that could be what you are hearing.

[@matijatatomirovic3351]

Suffering from big time impostor syndrome because of you. Blushing, and thanking you once again!

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

King, you are the real deal, my man. If anything, raise a toast for yourself for all the people like me that you have inspired with your knowledge and detailed experiments with dissecting mics.

[@innercynic2784]

Wouldn't it be nice to just agree to disagree and leave all of that irrelevant stuff at the door? But I'll agree that both mics sound very good.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Yes, it would be nice. And I'm glad we could agree on both of those things.

[@idleplaythingspedals]

They really do sound spot on to one another. I thought at one point that Mic B was just a touch brighter, but talked myself out of that. Didn't even realize there was talking about talking about politics drama at GDIY, but there definitely are some folks who maxed out their Engineer skill points and forgot to slot a few into Empathy. You were always kind to me in the few interactions we had there though, so I appreciate that.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Thank you for listening and participating in this experiment. And, I’m glad we were able to converse at GDIY like decent human beings, the way it should be.

[@lilythepig]

I didn't hear you identify which mic was which (though they were so close, I guess it doesn't matter).

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

It's at the end of the show, somewhere, probably not too long before the song starts. Because I rambled on for so long, the reveal probably came and went so fast.

[@user-fz5qk6xe6y]

At minute 22:59 he says which one is it. I own a U87, I was able to tell, but it took me more than usual, when hearing other similar versus from others, usually takes me seconds to get it.., but I think this one took me a minute or more.., the difference is indeed so subtle that it doesn't matter at the end, cause Dead Ringer sounds amazing.

[@lilythepig]

@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff Found it...thanks! But as I said, the mics are so close that it almost doesn't matter. Keep up the good content! I actually bought a mic recently that you talked about (well, I bought a sE4100 rather than the sE4400 multi-pattern you talked about). Great mic! ($249 'used' but it turned out to be new in a sealed factory box).

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

@@lilythepig sE really does make some outstanding mics. Sounds like you got a steal on that 4100! Enjoy!

[@RedJay]

Mark perhaps DIY Mic Everest is building a true blue U87 ai.

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Perhaps, but I just keep thinking why climb another mountain just to say you did it when there are so many other new pursuits to discover? I think the Dead Ringer is my mic DIY swan song.

[@RedJay]

@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff Fair enough

[@zeitakulobusta]

Lobster he say yes!

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Lobusta! Yo man! I know your ears are tuned into stuff like this, so thank you.

[@dannylightning-audio-reviews]

Reddit, any forum I have ever been too, or anything similar has lots of those people who seem to give you crap if you ask a question because you didn't know the answer or you didn't see the answer or you didn't understand the answer they don't care there's just a bunch of smart ass shit dicks on the internet and I understand when someone asks the same question over and over and over and over in their answers right there that can get kind of old but they don't need to be a butt about it you know what I mean

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Danny, you are so right. The internet is such the “I told ya so” machine that it is catnip for people who need to try and make themselves feel worthy by “putting others in their place”. Too often, it’s a sign of terrible insecurity coming from someone who wants badly to be recognized and seen, but what gets me on GDIY is how many armchair quarterbacks there are who want you to think they know so much, yet don’t really have track records as recordists of any kind. The bigger takeaway for me is that I was spending too much time online instead of doing the kinds of things that actually move the needle.

[@adon-nk8fr]

wow, how do i go about making this?

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

At the end of the video, there’s text on screen that discusses all the parts that make up the Dead Ringer, so your best bet is to google them, starting with the Michael Fuchs 87a circuit pcb. There’s a pair of threads on it at GroupDiy including a link how to contact Michael Fuchs about buying a set of boards from him.

[@DailyRiot]

Mark how much for one of these?

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

To build one will run you about $450 in parts, plus the time it takes to get up to speed to learn how to do it properly. That's probably my closest estimate.

[@DailyRiot]

@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff I'm already very well versed in soldering and building microprocessor powered modules and stuff like that. Never done a mic before. Is their a list of components I can get to build that mic?

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

@@DailyRiot Google "Michael Fuchs 87a Circuit" and you'll find a GroupDIY link that will take you down the rabbit hole of where to order the boards and get the BOM of components to build it.

[@DailyRiot]

@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff and that will be exactly the same as this one you built? You got any extra secret sauce? Or is that the body of the mic? I know the head basket makes a difference.

[@DailyRiot]

@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff There's a clone called GTZTools 87, has the correct headbasket and sounds (according to people really close), you think modifying that would be easier than starting from scratch?

[@BillBene67]

Great points Mark...I see a lot of condescending comments on there which just reeks of booshy-ness from some. It'd be like someone in a Baseball forum asking me how best to throw a slider. I'm not going to jump down their throats telling them they should know the grip...I had a Dr. at Keck Medicine in Montrose/Glendale area examine me in 2018 after I tore my quad tendon. He was going over my MRI and made a snide arrogant comment to me about Tendons and cartilage as If I should know how they exist in the human body and I said, "Ok, Dr. My Bad. Hey, tell me why a slider is more effective to a left handed batter than a curveball." He did not get my sarcasm....

[@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff]

Yo Bill! Thank you! And... Ugh. Doctors are the worst bunch of narcissists. I bet that doc would have cut 4 of his fingers off to have had the chance to be on a big league Topps baseball card, even with hat hair.