The Unbearable Brightness of Aviation LEDs

[@OpaKnows]

- have $35 flashlight - print the word "aviation" on the side of it - is now worth $650

[@CMore2324]

sabr686 agree

[@CoordinatedCarry]

There’s a lot of testing to certify anything for aviation use. Seeing as you can’t just “pull over” to fix anything it needs to work first time, every time. No excuses. You’re paying for the research and development of the product.

[@-allround-]

@@CoordinatedCarry that still doesn't mean it's Worth 650 ..

[@taunteratwill1787]

Until you try to get that money for it! LMFAO.

[@GLITCH_-.-]

rjcass33 How can you use that argument to defend it when the normal GE4509 costs just 12$? That is 1/54.16th of the price of the LEDs.

[@RBETV]

Can we please all take a moment to appreciate the QVC style 360 spinning of the lights in the bottom left corner? Delightful.

[@TeachAManToAngle]

Paul Bertorelli - the most trusted name in aviation journalism.

[@stevesplace7230]

Brought to you by his very own "official" studio.

[@ibgarrett]

Paul needs to do like 10x more videos... they are all very good and highly entertaining for even the most mundane stuff. :)

[@codytebaldi]

The best one is his video on flying wide traffic patterns.

[@captainzeppos]

This guy is so gifted that he can make a 10 minute presentation on GA landing lights appear as the most interesting thing of the decade, even to those who are not interested in landing lights.

[@SixStringflyboy]

I own a Cessna 150M. The old landing light bulb it used was the GE 4313. I switched to a Whelen PARmetheus (geez, who the heck came up with that terrible pun of a name?) about a year ago, mainly because I got tired of changing the landing light every 20 hours (in case you didn't know, those old 4xxx series GE bulbs are only rated for 25 hrs, so 20 hours in front of an O-200 is pretty darn good). Compared to the GE bulb, not only is the PARmetheus not as bright, but the spread of the beam is much, much narrower - only 5 degrees either side of center. Maybe not that big a deal to some, but if you're like me and you're based at a field that doesn't have lighted taxiways, only reflectors, you have to be on your toes not to miss the turn to the next taxiway if you have one of these equipped. My point is, don't go with the cheapest option. If you can't afford to buy the next option up, keep buying incandescent until you can afford one of the better LEDs.

[@amariner5]

Is this a "recommendation" or a "save a little longer" I thought Whelen was the high standard.

[@jwo7777777]

@ADEBISI ADEBISI Hakuna your Matatas there, Xi Jinping!

[@warmachine9553]

You own a Cessna 150M, and youre concerned about the cost of a landing light????

[@magicwand6746]

'Debisi iblis Biliisi Who named ya ass after a girl

[@JohnDoe-yj5ng]

Actually the best option is a HID lightbulb, more efficient, no need to worry about over heating an LED bulb, draws less power than LED and lasts longer.

[@robertlafnear4865]

BEST Video about LED's that I've seen yet... I've put them on everything I own that I use OFF ROAD...I also found a SD F250 on the Highway with a 3' LED light bar running during the day and I could hardly see past him... BEST light source ever..... not so good for other drivers......... THANK YOU for the great video, I'll make sure others see it.

[@tekvax01]

I loved the Quip about not paying attention in school! PURE GOLD!

[@davidclarke7154]

Thanks for updating this! Very informative. I put Lopresti HIDs in my 182 a while back, love them! People keep telling me "you should replace those with LEDs." Now I can point them to your video.

[@clearofcloud2038]

Paul, Paul, Paul....please, more content. Yes, your videos and writing are informative but they are also massively entertaining!!

[@rigilchrist]

Facts delivered with humour. Love it.

[@joedillon159]

Very enlightening video!

[@worldtravel101]

🤣👍

[@hellothere9262]

Wow, that was a pretty smart joke. Some might even say, you are pretty bright.

[@nitramwin]

The part at the end really shone the limelight on the dangers of always on 12V wires.

[@loddude5706]

OK you lot, come on, naughty step.

[@nibzlegend99]

@@hellothere9262 lmao

[@bobninemire6859]

Love the welders hat Paul (LOL) and the humor is getting better all the time. This was a very worthwhile 10 min video. Thanks for all of them that you do for us GA pilots, really useful.

[@gungadinn]

The plate with the raised mounds you have that fits over the LED's is a Wavien collar which harvests the light that would spill to the side and combines this light into the forward portion of the beam. If you want to focus a LED, you either need a reflector or an aspherical lens over the LED. If you use a aspherical lens, the projected beam will have the shape of the LED. A reflector will project a round beam pattern.

[@jwschrag]

Good report with nice comparison review. Loved the priceless bloopers at the end! Great work Paul!

[@mannypuerta5086]

I flashed the two 4509’s on my 185 for years. Never had a bulb burn out since they flashed. Steady running is what burns them out. My lights flash from takeoff to landing, regardless of how long I fly. Best recognition for those misty days flying the valleys , canyons and passes of AK. What I didn’t like was the big movement of the ammeter when they flashed, so I changed them to Whelen LED’s, one taxi and one landing version. The only flickering of the ammeter now is from the beacon on the tail. I don’t fly at night now that I don’t get paid to fly at night, but if I ever did I think I’ll be better prepared to do so.

[@horacesawyer2487]

Manny - when your ammeter flickered constantly on your 185 from the flashing 4509s, did you notice it ate up alternators or your voltage regulator? Hope I'm wrong.

[@mannypuerta5086]

@@horacesawyer2487 No. Never affected either. I have since gone to a Whelen tail beacon. No more movement of the ammeter.

[@horacesawyer2487]

@@mannypuerta5086 : Thank you for sharing. That is good information! I had a complete electrical failure in hard IMC in south Georgia a few years ago in a 182. Turns out the one and only Alternator had decided to go belly up. I always wondered if something 'caused it' or if it just timed out due to normal wear and fatigue. The failure got my attention real quick. Once I became aware of it. As I recall, I did not notice that radios were failing, only that I could not raise ATC and eventually the GNS 530W just shut down. That kinda got my attention. After mild shock, and not having an adequate means to navigate, I decided my best course of action was to get the heck down. I was lucky the ceiling was not so bad that I had to be concerned. ATC was worried about me and had called my destination before I got there. I believe they had a ghost image of me on radar but certainly no transponder. I didn't exactly follow a full approach procedure as 'expected.' Hmm. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut. But, after all, it was a true emergency. I was authorized to make decisions in my best judgment to meet that emergency, right? That's what I had to do. I was lucky it was day time. I was lucky I was not icing up. I was lucky my vacuum system help up until I got down. If there were multiple failures I might not have been so lucky. Looks I sure did get off track from the original question. : ) But sometimes that's how we learn. From others.

[@mannypuerta5086]

@@horacesawyer2487 My alternator lasted without issues from 1991 until this year when it was overhauled as part of the engine overhaul. Good story with a good ending. Suggest you invest in an engine data monitor that gives aural and light warning when something is beyond normal parameters.

[@TheeAthis]

Great review Paul. I fly an experimental LSA and just bought a pair of Denali D2 LED lights. I am but an insignificant spec to you GA boys flying my weight shift Trike even though I sport in dash radio and transponder. But even though I fly by all the same rules you guys adhere to (except at night), I also invested in the lights for safety reasons. Glad you mentioned that towards the end of your presentation, I see lots of folks debating when you should have them on or off. As for me, its a safety thing, so I run them all the time.

[@danielshirley5638]

This is quickly becoming one of my favorite aviation channels.

[@ghostindamachine]

Hi Paul, if possible: more of these kinds of episodes please! Really informative and enjoyable to watch!

[@PedroPatsf]

Paul, your videos are the best, informative and fun.

[@JCON631]

This has to be the best video of yours that I've ever seen. You're always the straight man on the test flight vids. Keep em coming!

[@davidvicari5139]

Great, never saw the innards before. 1957 172, bought 2 years ago. In line with current thinking, I just turned everything on all the time. Still have the generator, although the “big” 30 amp. Turns out the 2 GE Pars draw 17 amps alone. Another 7 for the old nav lights. Anyhow, I had an electrical failure returning home at night, the radio died with a fizzling sound on final. Found the generator fuse melted in the holder. Had the generator rebuilt, had to get another core, the rebuilder rejected mine with a bad front bearing, scored armature. Replaced the fuse with a resettable toggle circuit breaker, back on line. I went with a pair of Larsens, shipped for $60 bucks. I don’t think it’s a big deal seeing down a lit runway at night, what is important to me is the be seen, at a fraction of an amp.

[@MrSaemichlaus]

I'm now perfectly knowledgeable about upgrading my beloved, imaginary plane.

[@tomi6261]

Paul, I truly enjoy your vids. Unbiased and great, experienced advice. Plus, I love your dry sense of humor.

[@CyberSystemOverload]

Paul is an aviation Legend! Witty and informative as always!

[@Joey4420]

Paul, I really enjoy your videos and your writings on AVweb. I have to say the bloopers today made me laugh, thank you for your hard work.

[@bartgoins1782]

Although I doubt I'll be flying my Kitfox 5 at night, I will be installing some LED Wig Wags at some point, just to make it easier for the guys I fly with to see me. Great video. Thanks.

[@tomcoryell]

Thanks Paul both for the info and the out take humor!

[@georgewalker6883]

Paul is great, always informative and puts a fun entertaining spin on things. Keep it up. Thanks

[@steved479]

Another great video; the end had me cracking up!

[@redeyeracing2]

When i was doing lights for a band in 80 i used dc3 landing lights fit right into par64 can. Loved the solid beam they made when fog machine was running. Like you could cut them with a knief. 24 volt run four in series and 110v

[@mythril4]

20 high output 6000K surface mount LED's of a good brand $2.00, PCB in mass production $3 each, The very likely common decent brand of a few electronics on board $5, The molded lens that were designed already and used by many manufactures $0.10 per light for the license. Cool looking airplane sticker and the word Aviation... $600 Most expensive sticker you'll ever buy! Great video by the way, you did a great job.

[@pilotkid2011]

I love Paul every time I watch an AV web video with him he makes me laugh with his dry sense of humor

[@x--.]

Oh man, 10:40 is how I imagined it would go for me when I saw him flick those together earlier in the video! I was glad to know I wouldn't have been the only one.

[@Metalgearmadness]

So recently on my Bonanza I swapped out to some LED landings lights and holy crap they are like lasers through the night. Coming in for a night landing I am able to see the entire runway clearly. They are simply incredible, and there is not a single reason for anyone to not be running LEDs now a days. In terms of lights they are expensive but well worth every cent.

[@terryboyer1342]

Tell me one thing in aviation that's not expensive. lol

[@flyboyrog3713]

@@terryboyer1342 Advice!! Then again, take the wrong advice and it could cost ya...:-)

[@Metalgearmadness]

I run ethanol free auto gas in my plane and in terms of relativity it's pretty cheap at least where I live.

[@rsmith155]

terry boyer good planning

[@robertthomas5906]

What did you buy? I own a '54 E35.

[@ArcticMayhem]

Nice video Paul. I had an incandescent and a Whelen in my 170 when I bought it. I replaced the incandescent with a Rigid 62010 and it was twice as bright as the Whelen, so now I have 2 Rigid bulbs installed. Yeah it's not PMA but neither was the 4509 tractor bulb that they replaced.

[@P3photo]

I love this guy’s reporting and humor

[@billykittner7128]

Thats a bright topic Paul. Good presentation young man ;)

[@rocktakesover]

Channelling your inner Winnebago man. Well done

[@brandonsorenson9178]

Love the bloopers. Great review

[@YZFR1mart]

This is in my recommended. . I watched the whole clip and I don't have an aircraft 😂 I'm a self certified nut job that wastes his own time.

[@kennethiman2691]

Me too!

[@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043]

Same here, although two years late to the party😁

[@effortlessly]

Interesting to see that LED technology has even now still not caught up to the brightness levels of HID

[@peanuts2105]

I use HID for moving lights to illuminate music concerts and they cannot be beaten for brightness and colour balance. So yes, i completly agree with your statement.

[@horacesawyer2487]

He said Andy Rooney. Senor Paul's voice inflections kinda remind me of Andy. Alot. : ) Keep up the great work Maestro.

[@KarlH1980]

All these negative Nancy's are something else! Thanks so much for the detailed review. I've been looking at LED's for automotive use for 20+ years. Finding data like you presented is a challenge.

[@MichaelCarrPilot]

4:16 that sound effect tho tha real MVP

[@iflycentral]

I can relate to the outtakes at the end. :D

[@mikeheatherson2854]

Love the explanation really useful information and very knowledgeable! Made me watch more of the videos

[@bjs2022]

Thanks for the well-produced report and, no joke, some of us watching are old, even some considerably more than you.

[@youchris67]

LOL for the outtakes at the end!

[@gregjennings9442]

Absolutely loved the bloopers!

[@in2flying]

Paul’s a legend, and needs to do more videos on all things aviation. And yup I’m not old but not that young either lol

[@marcosmota1094]

I knew about AVWeb,- might have browsed their jobs section more than a year ago. But wondering what I did recently to get this awesome video as a suggestion. The Andy Rooney joke was funny, and then the outtake killed it.

[@johnconti8723]

Thank you Paul! Im going with the AeroLED. I've read the AC article but the video is great!

[@Cherokee140Driver]

Fantastic video. Very informative. Thanks for the bloopers!

[@danblumel]

One thing no one seems to discuss, regarding most of the higher output current LED offerings mentioned in this video and many others. They all get too damn hot after 5 or 10 minutes of use, to touch on the back. Some as high as 180 F and more. The heatsinking is grossly inadequate to dissipate the heat effectively. The manufacturers also throttle them back BY 35 to 45 % compared to room temperature rated output as they heat up, this is done to prevent failures and warranty claims. If it's mounted in the engine cowling where it's hot in there already, you will get those reduced outputs immediately, as soon as you turn it on. Some units are not voltage regulated at all, and are output (claimed) rated at 28 or 14 VDC. Most electrical systems you would be lucky to get 12.5 or 13 volts to the lamp not 14 or 28 VDC. That being the case, they are already quite a bit dimmer than the spec claims. Never achieving the claimed performance. At least one of the 28VDC units that's quite expensive ($600 to $700) isn't even voltage regulated.

[@spikekavalench]

Very informative and absolutely LOVED the electrifying out takes (!) but it would have been even better to also compare an off the shelf tractor type LED for the experimental aircraft owners.

[@zech007]

@ 7:48 hmm I wonder if that was a comet that streak behind the sky.

[@ELMS]

Terrific video, Paul.

[@thomashudgins996]

Great report Paul, However, a side by side photo of each would have made the comparison far better for all to see. Seeing the actual differences visually makes a huge difference in decision making. Also, it has never ceased to amaze me how when you ad the term "aviation" to a product, the sell price goes up by a factor of ten thousand. It my only cost the Mfr $ 35.00 to make the high end product, but corporate decides the ratchet up the sell price to match the image its a fantastic product. I know the FAA paper trail required for all aircraft parts is tremendous. But, often times I see something I could make with my bare hands in my garage that would out perform and outlast for far far less money than an SUV payment.

[@edwinkania5286]

Woosa there Brother its not worth getting stressed over. L.E.D.'s are awesome and great video showing the value of them. I see your point and it is very brilliant!

[@dennisd7292]

Great job Paul. Love your wit

[@kevo868]

Excellent job as always Paul.

[@RustyCoon]

I’d love to see Paul on KZbin multiple times weekly!! Informative and sassy - yep, i used that word. Love it. 😎

[@AVweb]

Multiple times weekly? Please, someone shoot me.

[@RustyCoon]

AVweb 🤣

[@brenj]

9:33 is a golden catchphrase right there. 😂🤣😂

[@divindave6117]

That Aero Sunspot is badass. Im ordering right away. Thans for the vid. I needed it.

[@3dsmackdown]

Very good explanation. I mean I am not a pilot but love lights and found out some interesting test results, thank you.

[@fajoopsa]

I had GE landing lights in my Datsun 1600 back in the 90s. Looked 100% stock but would throw some light when needed.

[@robijnbruinsma4489]

Paul, if you really had been sleeping through your physics classes, you would not have been able to give such an excellent explanation of LEDs.

[@another1commenter770]

Great video for the night time comparisons and thumbs up however. LUX is the incorrect measure to use. For a good comparison you need to have a high vantage point to see how the beam spreads, this will let you know how they will perform on approach / during taxi / on runway. A pencil beam will be great for approach but useless for when on runway or taxi, a broad beam will be great for taxi but not runway or approach. Halogen and HID light cannot be easily be compared in LUX or lumen to LED unless a visible light pas through filter is used, Most LUX meters will also measure non visible intensities as well. Halogen HID and incandescent lights have high outputs of UV, near inferred and inferred light comparative to LED lights that produce a narrower spectrum of light. Lux vs lumen Lumen measures total output while LUX measures an instance of illumination within a area of measure. So two LED light outputting the same lumen amount may have differing LUX amounts. Candela and LUX are the first signs of a scam on packaging with the ONLY exception being a LUX map/Graph for beam pattern. A good high power LED cluster in 2019 will produce ~1000lumen for every 10watt and need about 6 to 9 cm3 of cooling fins per watt. In the automotive world right now (q1 2019) you can get a 320watt 30,000 lumen 9 inch round led lamp that has a 1LUX value at 500m and a 3500LUX value at 5m and has a heat sink fin volume of 5.5cm3 per watt. the kicker here is it cost $200usd and has a CISPR 25 Class 5 rating.

[@xa-xii4865]

Where can you buy old second-hand aviation LED lights for cheap?

[@RydalS]

I learned more in this video than I learned the first 5 weeks of college.

[@AtlasReburdened]

Slight correction @ 4:35 The lens does not make the light coherent, just more parallel in its path.

[@Wild_Bill57]

As a bit of a geek, really appreciate videos like this, but the outtakes almost made me piss my pants. Thanks for being a good sport and showing them.

[@tedhoward3052]

Would like to see aero-lites tested as well... non-PMA but likely legal replacement for older part 91 certified aircraft.

[@ehsnils]

One important thing about light pattern is that it should avoid lighting up too close to the vehicle and actually provide a wide pattern that has most of the power some distance away. This will improve the night vision since the eyes won't be disturbed by the close bright light. You will still have enough "leak light" for close items.

[@squadmeta]

Color temp of those LED's is too cool, on wet tarmac or in fog/snow you won't see anything! LED's are great, but stick with neutral tints for vision. I am nothing to do with aviation but have tested plenty of flashlight and automotive light sources.

[@fadis.7695]

man .. this guy has such a smooth voice .. i often use his videos to help myself sleep 😅

[@nibzlegend99]

Is there an online course to help with the design of such products! Amazing video combining good technical info with a sense of humor 👏

[@andrewarato696]

Love the bloopers at the end. 😂

[@lakeratatouille]

Best bloopers ever

[@gryzor]

Came for the lights, stayed for the bloopers.

[@PA30Pilot]

Nice job as always Paul.

[@kreaellis2841]

Great video. It would be good to see a comparison with the LED lights commonly used on Experimental airplanes - like the airplane specific AeroSun and automotive Baja Designs Squadron Pro.

[@nickm764]

lol, love the outtakes at the end 🤣

[@michaelcarniel9086]

Great video! I'm in the market to upgrade my rv7 lights so I've been poking around, and this is by far the best comparison I've seen. Thank you! And hey, I'm barely north of 40 lol

[@immortaljatt05]

Waiting for him to put that 12v leads to his glasses lol

[@randydewees7338]

That secret sauce "lens" in front of the LED emitter is a CPC, or Compound Parabolic Concentrator, a class of non-imaging optic. Non-imaging optics do not follow the design rules of typical lens and mirrors, they have different rules. For a CPC, imagine taking a portion of a parabola that does not reach the vertex, Now spin that portion about a new axis, forming a non-linear conical surface of rotation, and there you go. A CPC usually is solid and works by total internal reflection. Sometimes a conventional lens is placed at the large output end, making a hybrid optic. CPC's are very effective at producing an even narrow conical output from a flat emitting area. (And vise versa in the case of solar concentration). CPC arrays are easily and cheaply molded. I guess the CPC lens plate for one of these lights adds about $30-$50 to the overall cost. BTW, the highest levels of solar concentration have been achieved with non-imagining optics.

[@pauljs75]

One could probably do their own QC work and buy the emitters, collimators, sillicone mold casting resin, and optical clear epoxy to make 30 lights for the price of one light here. Just figure out how to array and align the collimators for good beam coverage while having the LED facing end on a common plane. Then build a jig to hold the collimators. You'll need to make some smooth form in the overall frontal lens shape and polish it glossy smooth. Then make the silicone mold casting over that. Now you can make multiple molds with the form. Then you can just place collimators in your jig, place that into the resin mold, and then pour the optical clear epoxy. (Front end of the light is a bit bowl shaped, so it should be straight-forward.) What comes out of that release mold is then a larger lens assembly of clear epoxy bonded collimators. And now build the back end out of 20W or 50W emitters aligned on a heat sinking circuit-board to fit the collimator array. LED drivers are also a relatively inexpensive parts bin piece, so test and mix and match to find the best for the job. The back end that goes over that is just stamped aluminum or steel, that can be additionally heat-sink in some way. Probably something that can also be hammered out, or just make a can, since unlike regular lights it has nothing to do with the optics. (The back is only an enclosure in this case.) Of course you need to have some soldering skills, and perhaps a few odds and ends like a vacuum container to degas the optic epoxy right before the pour. Still all that would put you at a much better price point than some part that costs $300. And then you'd have skills to custom make stuff from thereon. The bin parts thus are stupid-cheap for what they are, but all the pricing must be in QC - which is potentially better if you DIY.

[@MCLIcpfan000]

The one thing to point out is that the whiter cooler light shows the colors on the runway a lot better. You can get more light with a yellow light but need more light with yellow to differentiate color and in some cases lose all ability to see color. White lights allow you to see color but have their own drawbacks.

[@garywheeler2055]

Another great presentation 👍

[@rejm1161]

🤣😂👌 the end is great. I like someone who can laugh at himself. Good video.

[@wwsvs]

Hi! What are the color temps of LED bulbs? They look like 6500k for the first 2. Can you post links to the different models you tested? THANKS!

[@chrislowery1348]

White light LED's are made by coating a high intensity blue LED with a "phosphor" coating. This coating converts part of the blue light into yellowish light. The combination of the transmitted blue and the yellow is perceived as white by human eyes.

[@stargazer7644]

That's one way, there are several.

[@dougankrum3328]

Yeah, there are NO white LEDS, since white is a combination of RGB...white LEDS work like a fluorescent lamp...blue/uv shining on phosphor...the phosphor can be made to give off different color temps of 'white' light...

[@stargazer7644]

@@dougankrum3328 There are also white LEDs with individual red, green and blue components. Many of the early ones were made this way, but the phosphor ones have higher CRI.

[@Nicholas-f5]

Thank you for the super pro content, I'd like to help with an electric plane episode! Like you, I have contacts with Pipistrel 🛩️ Thanks for the laughs too 🤣

[@mbabcock111]

How about Space Shuttle landing lights? Did they exist? If so, what were their characteristics?

[@Herr_Jehmineh]

Again some superb Porl Burrburrally content, thanks!

[@heavi-armed-infadel]

They look great but can there be a chance of the beam potentially blinding another plane on the taxiway

[@garretmonnet9397]

Excellent video sir!

[@sirclarencedarrow]

I'm currently developing my own led lights / Strobes using various LED COBs and POBs for 12V.

[@klausgartenstiel4586]

i want one for my bicycle, pointing backwards, for some additional thrust.