The Unintended Consequences of the Reformation (w/ Dr. Brad Gregory)

[@mememe1468]

I love Dr. Gregory's work. While he writes on the unintended consequences of the reformation, primarily secularism(I mean, atheists are literally using Sola scriptura to reject the bible!), it was the opposite side of that coin that made me question my baptist suppositions. I mean fundamentalism. As a baptist, only a few years ago, I was in deep conversation with two Mormon sister missionaries. After much contemplation I knew they got alot wrong. However, there were critical things they got right that posed a major problem for my "simply" baptist way of faith. I then decided not to take anything for granted and sincerely listen to the Mormon position. I realized that both Mormonism and non denominationalism was destined from the start of the reformation. It was really only a matter of time before someone capitalized on them. Baptists and Mormons , I came to understand, were basically the same thing in so many respects. Even in ways only obvious to Catholics and traditional christians. I've been catholic for nearly two years now and I don't think I'll ever go somewhere else.

[@elizabethking5523]

@mememe1468, just read your comments from two yrs ago. 😊You said you don’t think you would ever go anywhere else. I hope you are still in the Catholic Faith! It reminded me of when Jesus asked Peter in John ch 6… Will you leave me as well? Peter says… where would I go Lord…? I am a new convert as of Easter 2024. 🙏🏻 I will NEVER leave the Eucharist NO MATTER what!!! I pray that for you as well! 😄🙏🏻❤Blessings!

[@Baczkowa78]

And what is wrong with secularism? You’ve lived all your life in secular society, so I don’t think you know now what it was to live in militant tyrannical theocracy.

[@Baczkowa78]

It’s interesting he thinks avarice and usury are deadly sins, but not simony.

[@Baczkowa78]

So he’s advocating for peaceful freedom of conscience and religion? I am glad that was the end - and that justified the means.

[@michellelewis6247]

I am a Protestant that is currently exploring Catholicism. This has been one of the most impactful videos I’ve reviewed in this process because it gives coherent expression to my jumbled and often frustrated thoughts. Thank you for this!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thank you so much for watching and I’m glad it was helpful!

[@RafaelReStival]

I'm a protestant also and Pr. Brad summarized the thought I've had through some months on secularism: Theology must be marginalized because it is a source of disagreement.

[@NonniesBakedGoodsAndMore]

Read a book called, Where We Got the Bible... Our Debt to the Catholic Church By Henry Graham.. it will help you so much in your journey ❤️ Good luck 👍

[@hassanmirza2392]

Explore Islam. Jesus is not God.

[@RitaGatton]

@@hassanmirza2392 Dear Hassanmirza2392 , Jesus IS God. Jesus is the son of God who came to earth, died, rose and ascended into Heaven. He will come back to judge the world.

[@timboslice980]

Everyones different. When i became a believer, i was already suspicious of what different churches taught and felt it was a daunting task to figure out the right version of Christianity to believe. I basically accepted sola scriptura as a default position though i didnt know the name. I just felt like all pastors, denominations, and theologies were not trust worthy or infallible. I figured id read the bible for myself then look for the church that teaches what i thought was there. I quickly realized that scripture can be confusing and uses terms that are difficult to get your head around. So you look to learn the information independently but then you realize the people giving you the information have biases. After about 10 years of studying apologetics, reading scripture multiple times, attending a variety of services, listened to a variety of pastors and theologians. After all that i was sure of one thing…. Everyone had things right, everyone had things wrong, and my own interpretation of things could be wrong. I was pretty frustrated, i felt there was no chance god intended for it to be this way. I had this little wish that im sure all Protestants have, wouldnt it be nice to go back and see what the early church taught? Too bad we cant trust history. I had this thought, like lets just learn about the history of the church. Silly as it may seem, biased towards catholics as it may seem, if its true then its worth looking into. If its not, ill have a really good weapon against any catholics that i run into. Not that i felt i needed one. I wouldve named off 10 false anti catholic myths if i were asked why i didnt consider catholicism a valid version of Christianity. Man was i wrong, ive been studying for 2 years straight, converted last Easter, and ill never leave this church!

[@johns1834]

We finally woke up and realized our old episcopal church condones, promotes, and celebrates sin, such as; homosexuality, adultery via divorce and remarriage, and murder / abortion, which is the product of the reformation and individual pride.

[@timboslice980]

@@johns1834 its crazy! Think about this…. The orthodox church is about to split over the russia/ukraine war and gay marriage being legalized in greece. The presbys split right in half over gay marriage, the methodists same thing, episcopal and Anglicans are going down. Even the southern baptists are feeling the tension. Satan is straight up slicing and dicing Protestantism and orthodoxy with ruthless aggression, they have no central figure like francis to hold them together. In fact the catholic church is the fastest growing denomination, the largest, and is the ONLY church that’s attempting reunification on a mass scale.

[@voxangeli9205]

Alright!!!🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@voxangeli9205]

​@@johns1834, very good!!!🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@elizabethking5523]

@timboslice980, I just read your comments and I say Praise the Lord! I converted Easter 2024! 😀I’m NEVER leaving the Catholic Faith either! No matter what! Eyes on the Eucharist!!❤️🙏🏻😀

[@calebperkins6287]

Love your content brother! Started listening to you at the beginning of my journey into the Catholic Church. Been home for over 3 weeks now. God Bless you! Keep it up!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

God bless you and welcome home! So glad I was able to play even a small part in that!

[@truthnotlies]

This is one of the most incredibly interesting interviews I have ever seen.

[@phishphan6596]

This is easily one of the most interesting and informative programs I have seen on KZbin. Great KZbin channel, great host, great guest.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Get out! 😁

[@rhwinner]

'The cornerstone of the reformation (sola scriptura) is the stumbling block of the reformation.'

[@GerhardWanninger-fi4bl]

'Sola Scriptura' posits the Bible as the sole 'infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice'. Matthew 7:29: “For He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.” The Bible never mentioned a Vicar of Christ but the Catholic Church does. As it is not in the Bible, it is a Catholic tradition. Why should I believe in a tradition when the Bible is so clear? 'Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5, 24"

[@seekingtruth4045]

@@GerhardWanninger-fi4bl So you don't you believe that God is a source of authority for Christian faith and practice? The ultimate source? The name Vicar of Christ is not mentioned but the role is. God tells David that His kingdom will be established forever and it is made clear in the New Testament that Jesus is the final and ultimate king of the Davidic Kingdom. But surely His kingdom looks nothing like the Davidic one right? Well Jesus appoints 12 apostles representing the leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel, and he appoints a chief steward (see Isaiah 22) when he gives Peter the keys to the Kingdom. It was a successive role in the OT so why wouldn't it be in the NT? We also see the mother of Jesus in Revelation with a crown as if she is a queen which of course perfectly aligns with the Davidic Kingdom again. The early church clearly understood this.

[@Baczkowa78]

Because the Bible is errant? Careful now. I wouldn’t tread farther.

[@mikecastelluccio7072]

@@Baczkowa78Of course the Bible is errant to a Protestant. That’s why they removed seven books from the Bible, and 66 verses from the book of Daniel, and 6 chapters from the Book of Esther. All this despite the warning of the wrath of God for doing so. Martin Luther opened Pandora’s Box with his rebellion.

[@Baczkowa78]

@@mikecastelluccio7072 which makes it a fairy tale for a Catholic

[@movfana92]

The last 10 minutes were gold. Give up everything for Christ! Thank you for the interview!

[@00TheRealTC]

I naturally scrolled through the comments while I was watching/listening to this episode. As soon as I got to the last 10 minutes, I recalled your comment. 100% agree!

[@charliek2557]

Still my favorite episode, thanks for this one. God bless you Keith!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Mine too!

[@RitaGatton]

I think that you can see what a country looks like where the Reformation was not very strong when you look at Poland. Poland has been Catholic for over a thousand years. I went there in 1984 and was shocked at the power of the Catholic Church - even though the country was ruled by a Communist government that had only recently lifted a very brutal martial law to curtail Solidarity, a freedom movement. I saw pictures of Pope John Paull II in people's homes and painted on railroad overpasses. The people resisted Communism and protected the church and priests as much as possible. That was the only way in which we could get a Pope John Paul II from a Communist country. When I was there, I frequently saw nuns on the street wearing their habits. When it was announced in Krakow that the pope had died, two soccer teams were playing. People chanted, "Stop the match". The stadium stopped the match and the people went home. I get mail from missionary orders. There are many Polish priests and nuns all over the world. This has weakened in the last few years due to modernity coming in after the fall of Communism in 1989, fights over abortion and the sex abuse scandal. Poland is wonderful!

[@sharalynpaetz6872]

I am glad you recently mentioned this video in one of your newer videos. This is great.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

I’m glad you found it!

[@quietwyatt4045]

All true and well stated. *And for anyone with an Audible account, Prof. Brad Gregory has a brilliant college level course on the Reformation in the “Great Courses” series. End of plug.* There is yet another consequence of the Reformation however, and it may be the most consequential of all. That is, the returning to the Western Catholic Church by former Protestants from various and diverse Protestant denominations with broadly differing customs and traditions. This is, in the broader sense, a wonderful thing - and all are welcome of course. And it would be that alone if this simply meant the catechesis of a vast flock returning to its fold. But it isn’t as benign as that. But, again unintentionally, and broadly speaking, these “Prodigal Protestants” and Evangelicals are innocently bringing with them those aspects of their own ways of doing “CHURCH” (as a verb) that really have no place in the Catholic Church and as such are changing it. In short. Many Protestants coming into the Catholic Church are under the impression that the Catholic Church is just another “denomination” worth giving a try. The unfortunate consequence of all this has been a sort of protestantization or fundamental distortion of The Church.

[@terrykessinger4432]

As a Protestant beginning RCIA in 3 weeks, please give examples/specifics as I would never want to offend or muddy the waters, if you will. What I bring is a humble desire to know and walk in the Truth. Thank you.

[@yankeecitygirl]

Don’t even concern yourself about it. The bedrock of the Catholic Church is Our Lord in the Eucharist . That’s all any of us need to consider.@@terrykessinger4432

[@sueseelie]

I was hoping for some examples too. I converted 30 years ago. One of the things I’ve noticed, that has been occurring more frequently than before, holding hands during the Our Father and/or hands in orans posture (palms up). The orans posture is reserved for the priest. If I go to a Novus Ordo Mass, the majority are in orans posture. If I go to a TLM, no one is. Also, the practice of a “Christian seder meal” or any Seder meal during Holy Week, or ever. I’m not sure if this was a Protestant practice that seeped into Catholicism or what. Catholic Answers website says it’s totally fine if done right but other Catholic sources would disagree. Another Protestant bleed over, the music, which can vary greatly from parish to parish. I have heard that the music changed greatly since V2. I found a NO parish that has a choir that does beautiful Gregorian chant, polyphony and other reverent liturgical music. The TLM that I sometimes attend is strictly chant and polyphony, done very well. Other parishes I have attended have music that doesn’t sound Catholic, some gospel, some pop sounding, just not fitting for the sacrifice of the Mass, in my opinion. Maybe the OP will give other examples

[@quietwyatt4045]

@@sueseelie I thought about including examples, but because my Comment was already running long I left it up to its readers. Yes. Your examples are good ones. .

[@sueseelie]

@@quietwyatt4045 I understand. My comment went a little long too

[@AndrewKendall71]

The unintended consequence that has meant the greatest detriment for the church of the living Christ all over the world is pride. Protestant pride that jettisoned valuable Catholic devotional tradition, and Catholic pride that caused doubling and tripling down on accretions of practice and doctrine and dogma in order to be as distinct as possible from Protestants.

[@johns1834]

Instead of confusing language with the Tower of Babel, God simply confuses their beliefs with the Protestant reformation which was displeasing to God because the sin was one of overweening human pride and self-sufficiency.

[@Catholiclady3]

This is so true. Great analogy

[@danieldoherty5034]

Brad Gregory has the best lecture on the Reformation I've ever heard. It's part of the Great Courses series, called "The History of Christianity in the Reformation Era." It is a balanced presentation of the three major movements of the Reformation: Catholicism, Magisterial Protestantism (Lutheranism, Calvinism, Anglicanism) and Radical Protestantism (Anabaptists, Mennonites, etc). He is fair to all these groups and gives a serious non-polemical account of the beliefs and teachings of each group. You can get it on Audible and is a mear 59 hours long, but interesting all the way through.

[@truthnotlies]

Thank you I'm going to listen!

[@aivanbarison2383]

Thank you for this show.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@marknovetske4738]

Great content 👍

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thank you 🙌

[@johnnyg.5499]

This is the very best presentation of the "over-all effects" of Luther's "reformation" on world history I ever read! WOW!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

I completely agree!

[@jonkelley7713]

“...and now you know the REST of the story”. Mother Mary pray for us. St. Brendan pray for us.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Love this!

[@MasterKeyMagic]

After tempting Adam and Eve, Satin's second greatest accomplishment was the reformation. Luther opened pandoras box and now half or more of Europe is atheist

[@johns1834]

Instead of confusing language with the Tower of Babel, God simply confuses their beliefs with the Protestant reformation which was displeasing to God because the sin was one of overweening human pride and self-sufficiency.

[@MasterKeyMagic]

@@johns1834 Never thought of it that way. Thats very interesting! I can see that

[@johns1834]

@@MasterKeyMagic Glad you liked it. The thought came to mind after watching this video.

[@tommore3263]

If you want to understand the modern world in the west, Dr Gregory's "The Unintended Revolution" is it. Great interview here.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks so much for listening and I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@allisonsmith5449]

Thanks

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@terrykessinger4432]

Wow, this was amazing. Thank you both to The Cordial Catholic and Dr. Gregory!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for listening!

[@Catholiclady3]

It's like as soon as you leave the church, God retracts the grace to understand Christianity, and you are instantly thrown into confusion and disorder. Confusion and disorder describe prodestantism to a T. It's only by the grace of God that His people are called back home. That's why we all need to be praying very hard for our prodestant brothers and sisters. They mean really well, but they're lost in the chaos of their prodestantism. No two can agree for very long unless they are lukewarm and dont desire deeply to know God. Because as soon as they start really digging deeper, they start seeing things they can't explain, and they start church hopping, looking for the truth. If they can't drop their bias against the Catholic Church, they will stay lost. Or they just pick a few verses they like, and they disregard all the things they can't understand. They unknowingly depend on the grace of God to be led home and on our prayers for them. Pray hard for those who attack us as catholics, love them hard too. Argue with them kindly, of course, but pray hard for them too.

[@johnyang1420]

True and Amen!

[@kevinmc62]

Love your content!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching, Kevin!

[@sergiosatelite467]

The scientific revolution-and the fact that it DID lead to consensus about the physical world-doesn’t seem to get sufficient credit here in the making of the modern world. The reformation and counter reformation do MEDIATE the scientific revolution, but the overthrowing of aristotelianism and the placement of mechanism-based science is much stronger than the reformation.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

Fantastic interview. So thought provoking and I loved the reference to our environmental crises being a direct consequence of disobedience to God.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Glad you liked it, Colm! Thanks for watching!

[@rc3088]

Keith as usual it was riveting. Thank you

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@GerhardWanninger-fi4bl]

Of course, the 'Cordial Catholic' would stand for the 'Catholic Church'. "The Protestant Reformation affected Catholics in several ways. For example, the Catholic Church further elaborated and clarified its teaching through the ecumenical Council of Trent, including the sacraments, how we are saved, and Sacred Scripture. This enabled Catholics to better know and live their faith."

[@dynamic9016]

Thanks much for this video.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@keepingcatholic827]

55:00-57was 🔥🔥🔥!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

I agree!

[@johnpower-m5o]

Luther indeed had his theological disagreements with the Church, but the main reason he broke with Rome was the rot and corruption. The Pope wished to build his palace St Peters in Rome, and needed money, so he sent out his prelates to sell indulgences, which meant that: If you paid money to the church, you could have your sins forgiven. When Luther heard that the Dominican Friar Johann Tetzel had installed a money chest in the church at Jüterbog to collect this indulgence money he went crazy. Luther also helped nuns to escape from a convent, a few years later, he married Katherine von Bora, one of these nuns. Yes there are theological reasons for the reformation, but let us not forget the rot that initiated this huge upheaval. Thank you.

[@sergiosatelite467]

I’m a naturalist but I empathize with the host: we have the same water bottle! Same color and all! And water is life. So, we are connected.

[@AnthonyAnthony-tk4ye]

4 THOUSAND views (which is a good thing) but only 200 people could take the time to hit the like button???? It doesn’t cost ANYTHING and it helps these channels….. in my own opinion I think watching someone’s video and not at least hitting the like is like stealing

[@sergiosatelite467]

The like feature is very simple: if you like you hit like. It’s not some moral duty.

[@tommore3263]

Reality.

[@estoyenelflowstate4412]

22:20 It looks like Luther became the new Pope.

[@SC-vd4ry]

Unfortunately, the case against is undercut by a misrepresentation of the case for.

[@johnchung6777]

I’m at a lost of words about the One true Christian Church that Jesus Christ started upon his Apostles and their successor’s on Pentecost,for I’ve noticed that there’s no place in the gospels or epistles of the New Testament that Jesus or his Apostles declared that the One true church that Jesus started would not have any problems corruption or any bad things happening in his One true Church started on Pentecost ain’t that the truth?🤔

[@truthnotlies]

In Quebec you cannot wear crosses or hijabs if working gor the public, in government.

[@anthonyfowler2623]

Luke 2:24

[@TheEmmaLucille]

I'm French. You CAN wear religious symbols in the public sphere. What you cannot do is wear a religious symbol while you represent the State. (like when you are a policeman, a judge, etc.)...

[@richardjackson7887]

for Catholics it was unintended but not for Christians who by faith believe and obey God. for Gods family is not universal but a small family that has found the narrow gate and avoided the wide universal gate.

[@AnthonyAnthony-tk4ye]

If you’re going to be discussing rights please don’t keep saying “right” to add pause to your sentences….

[@uncatila]

Bush said to shop

[@truthnotlies]

I think this has spiritual ramifications. People are trying to satiate their souls with materialism, that's true ...

[@jennyjohnson1930]

The cornerstone became the stumbling block…. Christ said sth about that. 🤔

[@jackolson7320]

Opinions with no supporting evidence.

[@Baczkowa78]

You don’t need to pray to a saint. You pray to God. That’s it. There’s no intermediary to God.

[@johnyang1420]

Catholic church allows it, but I dont do it myself

[@samtatge8299]

The host needs to try not to sound like Blippi.

[@aGoyforJesus]

20:00 sounds like you converted due to a desire to have what R Scott Clark calls QIRC: the Quest for Illegitimate Religious Certainty. You don't have any actual real solutions by saying "Rome" (I mean you have Pope Francis so there's no excuses man-- don't want to sound too harsh here but I have to speak my peace) but it makes you feel better.

[@tonyl3762]

Jesus didn't come to give us certainty? What is illegitimate certainty? Can you back up any of your answers to those questions with Scripture? What did Jesus say about truth and certainty in Scripture?

[@aGoyforJesus]

@@tonyl3762 illegitimate certainty is the demand to have the same sort of certainty that God has as the Creator. All sort of groups freak out because life is messy and our sources of knowledge aren't always clean cut. Catholic apologists prey on this. with "Rome will make everything alright." Which if you take half a second to consider it would make everyone realize it's a ridiculous claim.

[@tonyl3762]

​@@aGoyforJesus I don't see any quotes from Scripture to back up your claim, even though I asked for them. Plenty of Scripture can be cited in favor of certainty by the apostles (Jn 16:13, 1 Cor 2:16), their successors (e.g. Timothy and Titus), and the Church as a whole (1 Tim 3:15). What exactly is "illegitimate" or "ridiculous" about Jesus providing His Church with the ability to be one, as He prayed for (Jn 17), or to be of one mind, as both Peter and Paul command Christians to be (1 Pt 3:8, Phil 2:2)? Does God require anything that is impossible? Did God not provide a way? No one is claiming that we can have certainty about every issue all at once like God. You are arguing against a straw man in that case. The Catholic claim is much more modest and reasonable: God provided a way for us to fulfill His prayer and command to be one, to settle serious disputes that divide the Church, as they come up over time. This goes all the way back to Peter's dogmatic declaration ("we believe") at the Council of Jerusalem and the council's disciplinary decision, as told in Acts 15. As Joe Heschmeyer puts it, God never makes us choose between heresy and schism. He never puts us in an impossible dilemma. This principled rejection of certainty is the poisoned fruit of the Protestant Revolution. It is the reason why modern society is rife with atheism, agnostocism, skepticism, relativism, etc. and all the conflict that comes with it. That's the fruit of your view/position.

[@manuelpompa-u5e]

well let's see, the unintended consequences of the reformation... 1. having to respond to serious issues like indulgences. 2. having to respond with a very weak counter-reformation (the counsel of trent), which denies that salvation is by faith through grace in Jesus Christ alone. 3. it's perpetual lies about it's man-made doctrines and practices.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

The Council of Trent AFFIRMS that salvation is by faith through grace. You should read the Canons, they’re widely available online.