8 Myths about Martin Luther and The Reformation

[@frankie1376]

For those wondering, this video had a fake copyright strike that seems to be overturned so now Joe needs our help to get this video out of Algorithm purgatory by WATCHING IT IN FULL, LIKING, COMMENTING and SHARING. Lets do our part!

[@michaelrome3527]

I thought I saw this but then I couldn’t find it.

[@MrPeach1]

you dont have to twist ny arm to watch the full video

[@shlamallama6433]

You got it king

[@JMJ.516]

His are one of the few that I always watch in full.

[@elizabethnelson321]

Done!

[@ToddJambon]

The Hesch! It's very ironic, but perhaps fitting, that a Martin Luther episode was in purgatory. This may be your best pun yet!

[@1901elina]

🤣🤣🤣

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

That was so that Fr. Martin could watch it as he is cleansed.

[@wanniesup]

Jesus loves us all

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@wanniesup "Jesus may love you" - Jean Calvin

[@hannahpolehonski3963]

Lifelong non denominational protestant here: I have been interested in and learning about Catholicism for the last 9 months thanks to Pints with Aquinas. Whilst I've certainly experienced a paradigm shift and feelings of betrayal, this video has really opened my eyes to the lies, deceit and propaganda about Catholicism. As much as I love your videos Joe, I think you should have a support helpline or something for us protestants who watch these. I wish you could give me a hug.

[@Jenduck820]

I also was non denominational, but came into the Church a few weeks ago, in large part due to Pints with Aquinas and Joe Heschmeyer as well. I only knew two practicing Catholics before my conversion, and I have a few anti-Catholic friends and family so it was a hard move but it was the best choice I’ve ever made. You have my prayers.

[@hannahpolehonski3963]

@@Jenduck820 thank you 💗

[@461weavile]

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but have you seen Catholic Answers Live? If you want to ask a question about catholicism, it's every day at 6pm eastern. Sometimes Joe is the one answering questions.

[@Veritas231]

I also come from a nondenominational church. I would still be in a non denom church now if I didnt take the time to unlearn much of the false things I heard said about Catholicism.

[@patrickvalentino600]

Being "non denom" is like saying you're not a citizen of any particular country. Everybody serves somebody, as the great philosopher says ...

[@danieldoherty5034]

Joe, I cannot believe that after 40 years of studying the Reformation, I have never seen the instructions from the Archbishop of Mainz. How is this neglected even by Catholic scholars?

[@crusaderACR]

He has a gift for research and argumentative creativity. Only way I can explain it. Joe kicks out videos every week from drastically different topics, and does way too good of a job more often than not. And when a video comes out which I THINK I knew all, I listen to it and lo and behold I hear arguments I've never heard before.

[@frogleg10]

You have phoney history. Anywho believe this man's fabrication and spin are sheep.

[@thomasfolio7931]

Another important historical fact most Catholics don't know is that Fr. Johann Tetzel who coined the phrase, "When the coin in the coffer rings, a soul from Purgatory springs." Was tried by an Ecclesiastical court for teaching heretical ideas contrary to Catholic teaching on Indulgences. He was also tried for illegally "selling" indulgences, contrary to Catholic teachings and practices. He spent almost 2 decades in a Monastery doing penance and deprived of his right to preach or officiate at any Sacrament in Public. What Luther started as his excuse to abandon the Church was brought on by Tetzel's misinforming the people of what an Indulgence is, what it can do, and how to obtain one.

[@fredmatthews1970]

I watched this video and its nothing more that Catholic apologetics. He fails to cite one credible source and I would hardly classify a journalist working for the New Yorker as a historian. What he does here is no different than what Protestants and more specifically evangelicals, have been doing for decades. A campaign to discredit Protestantism.

[@SaintNektarios]

@@fredmatthews1970 A quick Google search will give you many resources that state it is highly unlikely that Luther nailed the 95 Theses to the Church door. There is zero evidence that it happened. There is evidence that he sent copies to the archbishop of Mainz and to the bishop of Brandenburg.

[@alissarehmert2502]

I really appreciate the usage of primary texts in this (and really all of your videos concerning history). I was taught nearly all of these myths in school (both high school and college). This is why primary texts should be a part of every kid's academic experience.

[@kamerad4212]

Yes many primary texts. Except the Bible.

[@alissarehmert2502]

@@kamerad4212 I'm referring to the primary texts from 1517 and beyond. The video is about the history of the Reformation...an event not discussed in the Biblical account.

[@silverwater211]

@@kamerad4212 As far as I know, Luther is not in the Bible.🙄

[@tubalcain6874]

I'm 66, and I was born into evangelical Protestantism. I heard my fair share of obligatory and hateful anti-Catholic sermons growing up. Late in life I had my fill, walked away, and was received into the Eastern Orthodox Church (Antiochian). My niece followed, and was received into the Roman Catholic Church, where she met and married her husband. We never looked back. The teaching I heard growing up that the church suddenly disappeared after the death of the apostles, but resurfaced in the 16th century in Northern Europe, was always puzzling.

[@andrewscotteames4718]

As a former Lutheran, I really like this video. It touches on all these points that I learned were inaccurate as I studied the reformation and puts them together in an easy to digest format.

[@01Lamen]

Come back lol we made cookies recently

[@lostboy2381]

As a german I find it very strange that the german lutheran church does everything to "demythologize" Christ himself (historical critical method etc) but they love to mythologize Luther.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Reine Wahnsinn!

[@shamelesspopery]

Indeed. Although there are strong secular reasons to promote the mythological version of Luther, the Luther who is basically a 21st century "freedom of conscience" post-Enlightenment liberal secularist...

[@berniepfitzner487]

The German "Lutheran" church are anything but Lutheran. Heck they lead the way on Syncretistic, hollow, anti biblical philosophy. Luthers goal was a church reformed to God's Word not a church held captive to human philosophy.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@berniepfitzner487 He unreasonably imagined that all would agree with his "illumination." What a door he opened.

[@DanielAluni-v2t]

Good points. A lot of unpleasant anti Jewish/anti Catholic ideologies have come out of Germany.

[@johnblack5197]

You're doing great work Joe. May God bless you in your mission to educate people on the Truth of the Catholic Faith.

[@cristinamz2137]

I will be using your video in my European History class to show snippets of it o my students.

[@richardcastro1276]

I know! Should we expect a correction from Natonal Geographic? What's that they did no research on this topic? Oh that's funny... any other topic and there are tons of research!!

[@manuelpompa-u5e]

so you are a biased roman catholic teaching your students as such?

[@bethanygrey]

Even though I worked through a lot of the “history” of Luther and the Reformation in my conversion from Calvinism to Catholicism, I learned quite a lot from this video. Thank you Joe! I especially appreciate all the scholarship on primary sources, and from a variety of backgrounds. History is almost never as our myths depict it-sometimes WILDLY different.

[@richardcastro1276]

Good to know. Awesome! Welcome home! I also learned something knew. By the do know of any sales on rabbits? Just kidding!!!

[@gerardducharme2146]

Funny, you should say that my family in the mid 16 century for about 50 years we’re actually Calvinist, then the training point my answer came to this country Canada. you have to be a Catholic? The reason for that was they didn’t want any squabbling over here. Europe had enough wars by then. But what am I saying ? They’re still going on.

[@BradleyFear]

The fact that so many lies are spun against the Catholic Church to try and discredit it frankly only serves to show it's really Christ's Church.

[@grossepointemichigan]

Exactly.

[@crusaderACR]

Yep. They can't discredit the Church as She is, and they can't debunk it, so they make up things to attack. Otherwise there's nothing.

[@frenchtoast2319]

Indulgences wasn't martin luthers main complaint against Catholicism. He focused on that as it was easier to discredit him on versus his other issues with the RCC.

[@TimSpangler-rd6vs]

@@frenchtoast2319 I'm a Christian who doesnt believe Catholicism. Why should I

[@dallasbrat81]

You poor Catholics sound like Muslims crying

[@KathleenHughes-gm3jx]

The beginning of my exit from Lutheranism (50 years ago) was watching the play "Poor Man Luther." This play was intended as a positive, pro-Luther play, but in it I saw a character so repulsive that I commented to a friend that I wasn't sure if I would have followed Luther if I had been alive at that time. Within 2 years, I was a Catholic. I think the more people know about the true character of the Reformers, the better. Thanks for this video, and thanks for TWO great videos in one day.

[@cherylschalk9106]

There were forced conversions

[@crusaderACR]

​​@@cherylschalk9106Yes, it was a massive disaster for the Catholics in nations on which their princes went Protestant. For all the propaganda about Catholic inquisitions, there was nothing more brutal in Christian history than the English and German Protestant Inquisitions. If you actually go and look up the numbers it's insanely depressing. The Spanish inquisition, over 500 years, killed 1 or 2 a decade on average, if that. Protestant inquisitions killed thousands their first decade. And Protestants didn't only target Catholics, they targeted each other. John Calvin was brutal. The Anabaptist Protestants, for all their awful errors, had it rough in Protestant countries. Burnt by the thousands.

[@andrewpearson1903]

Very true. Dr. David Anders’s research into the life of John Calvin also prompted him to leave reformed-ism for the Catholic Church. However, I can’t find online evidence of a play called “Poor Man Luther”; are you sure that’s the title, ma’am?

[@KathleenHughes-gm3jx]

@@andrewpearson1903 No, I'm not sure, since I saw it over 50 years ago, and it was a college production. But I've since verified many times the claims it made about Luther's life and sayings.

[@blueskyes99]

Jesus said the wheat grow up with the tares. There will be bad players in any group/religion/organization. The biblical idea is to follow Jesus Christ and not to follow any man or organization. If we keep that in mind in any group we belong to, we will not be so disheartened or surprised when we see things like this. We must keep our eyes on Jesus, knowing that we are in a fallen world and that we can be terribly disappointed if placing too much trust in any person or structure.

[@InLieuofAquinas]

John Henry Cardinal Newman once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." Deus vult

[@Richard-e5m]

Many of us are deep in history, and remain Protestant.

[@johnsteila6049]

@@Richard-e5mThe rest of us would likely say that you haven’t gone deep enough, yet..

[@Richard-e5m]

@@johnsteila6049 I have been more than deep enough. More than enough to be a discomfort to people such as the ignoramus who produced the video.

[@InLieuofAquinas]

@@Richard-e5m Take it up with Cardinal Newman

[@luxordfaith8506]

​@@johnsteila6049maybe you should look again

[@billpletikapich5640]

Joe, I appreciate your professional approach in research and development of your videos. A satisfaction score of 10 out of 10.

[@elinorris1739]

I learned pretty much this mythical history in high school and i only realized years later how inaccurate it was. I wish i could go back and confront my teacher on the falsities

[@cherylschalk9106]

Public schools teach Protestant history.

[@jagc264]

Sometimes it’s what the higher ups that want them to teach certain things.

[@amysill3815]

I learned this mythological history of Luther in my Catholic grammar school!

[@adamkoaczek1343]

I also have such wishes some times

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

It's funny how in these depictions of Luther, if it were simply framed differently but none of the words were changed, you would view him as beyond pompous

[@danielustarez]

Great video my shameless friend! I can't imagine the amount of hours looking through documents and books and the selection of ideas that needed to be compiled in the script. Such work usually drowns anyone who wants to take on an historically accurate subject. I really appreciate your work. Thank you. An interesting fact one should know: the more serious the historian is, the more he cites the works he have read. Good job on the bibliography

[@nochillwill5903]

I always wondered why secularists loved the Protestant Reformation... now it all makes sense

[@deutschesvaterlandfankanal]

They are Marxists

[@InMyAffliction]

If you're not part of Joe's patreon you're missing out on amazing Q&A live streams. Genuinely great insights and advice on theology and life all over them (plus Joe Heschmeyer lore). Can't urge you strongly enough to sign up for it and support Joe.

[@derrick7442]

I know this didn’t come out when you planned but the timing for me is pretty incredible. Thanks so much for your work Joe.

[@rouxmain934]

The Kraken has been unleashed from the KZbin prison! Joe, you're giving us wonderful content lately, than you so much!

[@zeedub8560]

I"m trying not to get angry that EVERYTHING I was ever taught as a Protestant was wrong. Not only everything I heard about the Catholics, but nearly everything about Protestantism itself. "Father, forgive them, for they know not."

[@michaelogrady232]

I was raised Catholic, became an atheist, and then realized I had to return to Jesus. I explored Protestantism. I discovered that no one could talk about John 6 without employing some incredible mental and linguistic gymnastics. So I returned to the Catholic Church and found Jesus to be really truly and substantially present, something the denominations and sects did not possess. May God guide you on your journey.

[@HeartandHomemaking]

You’re not alone my friend. I was angry then just cried for months 🤣 now I’m just simply thankful 🙌🏽

[@michaelbeauchamp22]

Yeah, one of the most convincing things against Protestantism for me is how much Protestants tend to lie about Catholicism. Which of these two seems to be the truth?

[@macbride33]

​@@HeartandHomemakingsame

[@TheBadTrad]

I get it, I do. However, many prots do actually know what they’re doing. Many know what the Catholic Church teaches yet they still spread lies.

[@andrewsherwood7084]

Wow! That was a mic drop of a video. I love how you clearly present your historical sources on half of the screen.

[@HumanDignity10]

I asked my 19 year old son what he remembered about Martin Luther based on what he was taught in school, and it was the nailing of the 95 theses to the door. I definitely remember being taught that the nailing of the 95 theses was a pivotal event that brought about the Protestant Reformation. It's fascinating to learn that this likely never happened.

[@treeckoniusconstantinus]

Freedom from KZbin Purgatory at last!

[@cslewis1404]

😂.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

The proof we needed!

[@brighteyes806]

Thank you Joe, your work has real effect, you touch real lives.You may not feel it as much staring into a black camera lens, but for my conversion you have been more than helpful ,your awesome radio worthy voice on top of reasonable language and analogy make the work towards my first eucharist all that much easier. Sincerely thank you Joe.

[@shamelesspopery]

That's so encouraging to hear! Thank you.

[@SnkrhD13]

This is a very informative video, Joe! Thank you for expounding Luther’s erroneous reasons for his “reformation”. The amount of damage and division that he wrought is shocking

[@joeleach5089]

To study history is to see the corrupting influence of the Catholic Church since the Reformation. It is powerful, hierarchical, multinational in scope, clandestine and wealthy. It has worked hand in glove with such governments as the Ancien Regime of France, Hapsburg Austria, Inquisition Spain and the Portuguese/Brazilian Empire, the last Western nation to renounce chattel slavery. It seems unaccountable for its actions, as there is no apparent effective means of checks and balances. The English-Speaking Peoples have been justifiably suspicious of other such systems, like National Socialism and Communism. Beyond that, the Catholic Church claims exclusive authority to interpret the Bible correctly, basically because it says so. It denies anyone salvation outside the church. Through its use of the sacraments, it claims control over the souls of people. One would suspect that such absolute power inevitably corrupts. Anglophones have generally concluded since the death of Bloody Mary that suspicion of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy is well founded.

[@Suth1172]

I remember watching that Nat Geo video as an ardent NG reader when I was in early Highschool. The very next thing I did was study the Book of Concord. That video framed the Book of Concord which in turn framed Catholicism for me, poisoning the well for years. (Coming from an unobservant High Church Anglican background).

[@Hallow334]

Wow! What a great video! As a convert of 7 years, I've never even heard a Catholic try to dispel the things the things you completely dismantled in this video. It seems it is almost taken as the truth among Catholics as well.I'm so glad I found this video. I have been wanting to find some information about Luther. Thank you so much for this video! God bless! Vivat Jesus!

[@josh39684]

I have 2 Shameless Poppery episodes today! It's Christmas

[@lucillemasters6791]

I was wondering how I missed this episode, especially as it is one of my favorite topics! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@LauraMonge1974]

Amen

[@crusaderACR]

Here's a GREAT and relevant excerpt from Chesterton, after his conversion to Catholicism, telling us about his experience with Protestants back when he was an unbeliever: "I happened to pick up some of the amusing pamphlets of James Britten, as I might have picked up any other pamphlets of any other propaganda; but they set me on the track of that delightful branch of literature which he called Protestant Fiction. I found some of that fiction on my own account, dipping into novels by Joseph Hocking and others. I am only concerned with them here to illustrate this particular and curious fact about exactitude. I could not understand why these romancers never took the trouble to find out a few elementary facts about the thing they denounced. [...] These novels were padded with pronouncements like this one, for instance, which I happen to remember: "Disobeying a priest is the one sin for which there is no absolution. We term it a reserved case." Now obviously a man writing like that is simply imagining what might exist; it has never occurred to him to go and ask if it does exist. He has heard the phrase "a reserved case" and considers, in a poetic reverie, what he shall make it mean. He does not go and ask the nearest priest what it does mean. He does not look it up in an encyclopedia or any ordinary work of reference. There is no doubt about the fact that it simply means a case reserved for ecclesiastical superiors and not to be settled finally by the priest. That may be a fact to be denounced; but anyhow it is a fact. But the man much prefers to denounce his own fancy. Any manual would tell him that there is no sin "for which there is no absolution"; not disobeying the priest; not assassinating the Pope. [...] I never dreamed that the Roman religion was true; but I knew that its accusers, for some reason or other, were curiously inaccurate. - The Catholic Church and Conversion (1926)

[@ruthgilmour8399]

Thank you!

[@cherylschalk9106]

I use indulgences in my prayer life, it makes prayer much more efficacious. Love the video

[@thekingslady1]

💯

[@DAWanamaker]

If you visit a cemetery during the week beginning with All Saints Day and while there you pray for the souls in Purgatory, you can gain a plenary indulgence for yourself and for the souls in Purgatory for doing this spiritual act of mercy.

[@Psychodegu]

I can't tell if you are serious, or making fun of Catholics.

[@TheAuntMar-USA]

Thank you so much for this talk about Luther, which was very helpful to me … I’m a more recent convert from lutheran protestantism … … as a child I was first exposed to worship in a Methodist church and went to Methodist Sunday school … … in high school I was involved with “Young Life” … …. and as an adult, worshiped as a Lutheran for a couple decades after marrying into a devoutly Lutheran family. It’s so interesting to see how “the world” works to try and hide the Truth from us. But Jesus promised He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and The Truth shall set us free … … but how can we know the Truth about what the scriptures truly teach unless someone can explain it to us … … first we must know who has the authority to teach us. Sadly when Protestants decided to leave the church and leave her authority to teach what is true, they went from having one Pope to each individual becoming their own pope. And we see what a mess this has created. Praying for the Church Jesus Founded, and for her priests, and for all of us who trust our souls to her care. God bless you.

[@okj9060]

I’m a Catholic in olives in YL. Pray I can lead some teens to Catholicism.

[@USDebtCrisis]

Yeah the Reformation needs to be debunked more often because people are absolutely misinformed about it.

[@KnightFel]

Papists are severely misinformed of their own history as well. Please, these aren’t myths. This channel is heresy.

[@cookie1054]

First thing after skipping around is the Miserere mei is psalm 51, Psalm 95 is the Venite which is recited at Matins which begins “O comes let us sing unto the LORD”.

[@JohnsDumpsterFireIsToasty]

The irony is how much Luther's revolution backfired. Now there are thousands of denominations and he would be horrified to know what they believe. His foundational idea of sola scriptura led to huge fracturing, which itself indicates that that's not how Christ set up his church to operate. His ideas were used against the very church itself. His dramatic flair gave him a legacy, but not one he ever would have wanted.

[@patrickvalentino600]

Well and the main thing to remember was, as a Catholic he was trying to reform Catholicism, not necessarily break away... The irony is that the basic reforms he was aiming at were adopted, yet he then went too far and other more radical 'reformers' ran with the whole breakaway concept. I remember reading all of the 95 theses in college and thinking, "um ok so where is the valid criticism of the Church in here?" But Luther, even if inadvertently, let the cat out of the bag and the splintering of the Church which continues to this day became tragically uncontrollable.

[@frenchtoast2319]

I think if Luther were here today his list of grievances with the RCC would be greater in number and severity and he'd use a larger nail to nail them to the door.

[@crusaderACR]

​@@frenchtoast2319 Luther never nailed anything to the door. That was around the middle of the video. Apparently, when Luther talked of the event (self-dramatizing as always) he mentioned he remembered sending it to his local bishop. That's it. If it was Luther at the 95 theses era, he'd be glad to see them all addressed and responded, and stay in the Church. If old-age Luther, he'd probably be disgusted by Catholicism, but twice as disgusted for modern Protestantism. Where's your priesthood, Protestant? Where are your sacraments? Where's your high reverence for the Blessed Virgin? Where's your infant baptism, that literally saves and renews? Your Eucharist, literal flesh and blood of Christ? Your masses and beautiful cathedrals? Luther in the peak of his rebellion had more in common with the Pope than with any you. That would've made Luther _think._

[@frenchtoast2319]

@alonsoACR I am the priest of my family, as the bible says. My high priest is Jesus Christ. I practice sacrements. I respect Mary. Infant baptism doesn't save. I enjoy communion as Jesus instructed, in rememberance. Mass is just another word for church service, which I attend most Sundays. I've been to many beautiful churches. None of those churches mean anything if the Holy Spirit isn't present.

[@tabandken8562]

​@@frenchtoast2319You're a priest because you can offer up spiritual Sacrifices. Yet, Jesus ordained Ministerial priests who would be stewards of the Sacraments.

[@peterhenryzepeda3484]

I watched the Martin Luther movie with Ralph Fineas, in Middle School, and even then I noticed something was off about it.

[@whaddup691]

lol with the man that played Voldemort? Thats on brand I suppose

[@gemmiefy]

@@whaddup691😂😂😂

[@Anonymousduck161]

It’s his brother Joseph, not Ralph. He’s been in a number of quasi-religious films over the years but also many secular films. He did not play “voldemort,” Ralph did.

[@zakouraa]

I really appreciate the careful research you put into every video, keep it up!

[@roxanaconception]

All roads lead to home…. Candice Owens just recently became Catholic and she says something along the lines of “learning about history is learning about Catholicism.”

[@sumnerhigginbotham7628]

All those pogroms must've appealed to her

[@joeleach5089]

Learning about history is to see the corrupting influence of the Catholic Church since the Reformation. It is powerful, hierarchical, multinational in scope, clandestine and wealthy. It has worked hand in glove with such governments as the Ancien Regime of France, Hapsburg Austria, Inquisition Spain and the Portuguese/Brazilian Empire, the last Western nation to renounce chattel slavery. It seems unaccountable for its actions, as there is no apparent effective means of checks and balances. The English-Speaking Peoples have been justifiably suspicious of other such systems, like National Socialism and Communism. Beyond that, the Catholic Church claims exclusive authority to interpret the Bible correctly, basically because it says so. It denies anyone salvation outside the church. Through its use of the sacraments, it claims control over the souls of people. One would suspect that such absolute power inevitably corrupts. Anglophones have generally concluded since the death of Bloody Mary that suspicion of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy is well founded.

[@carolzappa1804]

20:20/47:45 Conscience: I would say that "a well developed moral conscience" was very much a part of the teachings of the Catholic Church during Luther's time, since Thomas More was MARTYRED by King Henry the 8th BECAUSE St. More was insisting that Divorcing his wife (wives!) And remarrying was a Grave/Mortal sin (Adultry!) against the Commands of God, which the Church was entrusted with preaching and upholding.

[@MrDarthtelos]

How does this only have 53 views in 7 days?!

[@diegobravo6825]

Check his community tab, it got a copyright strike that he appealed. Glad to see it back up though!

[@miracles_metanoia]

YT wouldn't let it be published due until he contacted them and worked through the obstacle

[@lellachu1682]

Thank you, this is timely! We have a few Lutheran women who have joined our Catholic group looking for answers, so I've been going down the Luther rabbit hole to learn more.

[@461weavile]

That's cool. Are they asking questions? Would you share with us what kind if questions?

[@461weavile]

That's cool. Are they asking questions? Would you share with us what kind if questions?

[@461weavile]

That's cool. Are they asking questions? Would you share with us what kind if questions?

[@richardcastro1276]

Well, awesome!! Well, now you know it was the equivalent of two rabbits ( btw nice joke using info from video). Now where can I get 4 pence? And am I a peasant by today's standards? Oh wait, it might just take the 4 things Joel said... and lots of prayers.

[@alhilford2345]

​@@richardcastro1276: Plenty of rabbits around back then. Most people were hunting them or setting traps.

[@jacquelineyork988]

Thank you so much for all you do! I'm so glad you popped up on my feed! I enjoy your videos so much!

[@jaredlowry970]

I’m a Protestant but I appreciate the depth of research that you put into this. Definitely learned a few new things.

[@irenecronin]

Appreciate the thoughtful measures you take when countering historical inaccuracies. Blessings to you for your time and effort!

[@samuelnicacio4621]

"remember, if the protestants claim this as copyright, that's an admission that it's canon"

[@shlamallama6433]

Star Wars fan moment

[@frenchtoast2319]

Nat geo likely struck, not protestants. It was also likely automated.

[@samcalderwood4079]

i kinda want to watch this guy go through" Luther (2003)" and find all the factual inaccuracies

[@audreymarsh5090]

Love the video, and glad to see it’s out of KZbin purgatory!!

[@hglundahl]

46:37 Could one consider that on Church polity there are four groups of Protestant denominations, so different that Catholics and Orthodox are with Oriental Churches a fifth "group of Protestantism"? Least to most hierarchic: 1) Quakers and similar -- each to his own conscience and seeking of God, not even any definite duty to agree with the Bible 2) Congregationalist -- each to his local Church, submitting to the Church, but that one organised in a non-monarchic form, a general assembly and a smaller assembly 3) Presbyterian -- each Church headed by a kind of parish Church, but no or at least no sacred hierarchy above this level 4) Semi-Episcopal, of which the most Ecumenic expression these days is the Porvoo Communion: a) English Anglicans in CoE b) Scandinavian and German Lutherans c) Moravians d) Methodists It was some kind of semi-episcopal guy who tried me on papacy, pretending the papacy lacks apostolic succession, since NOT all popes have been, on election, "ordained" by the bishops of the surrounding sees. And, 5) Fully Episcopal, as in Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Assyrians. The difference between semi-episcopal and fully episcopal is, fully episcopal Churches (usually) insist bishops only can ordain priests and also insist priests (usually) need to function under bishops, typically but not exclusively ordinaries. Semi-episcopal ones think this is great, but not strictly necessary. Anyway my point is, on this point at least, Protestants are at least as divided between them as from Catholics.

[@fleskenialation]

One question protestants need to seriously consider: were the reformers holy men? Why abandon Christ's church for a movement led by unsaintly men?

[@frenchtoast2319]

Because Christ's Church isn't a building, but a people.

[@markhorton3994]

The RCC is NOT Christ's Church. Many Popes including Francis have been heretics.

[@frenchtoast2319]

@Christusregna its not the same thing. Many of the beliefs guiding the Roman catholic Church are heretical and non biblical.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Read what Erasmus of Rotterdam (an early ally) had to say about them!

[@joellaw7950]

Great point, just like how all the Popes and bishops were saintly. If any of the leaders of the Catholic Church were evil it would surely show it is not Christs Church

[@BiffsCoffee27272]

Nothing to say, just supporting the video.

[@philip7461]

Hooray! The Luther video is free from KZbin purgatory. Let us like and comment in celebration.

[@glennorrell3446]

National Geographic also put out a story about Jesus and it questioned the authenticity of Jesus and the bible based on outside writings found. So National Geographic is not someone I would listen to.

[@EpoRose1]

They def have an agenda, but I bet a lot of people would look at that video and think it’s fair, unbiased, and factual.

[@77agape]

I think Joe should have directly advertised/named this podcast "National Geographic's 8 Myths about ML", in order to attract its subscribers to his video ! This way, comparably hardly any see it, & none of the magazine's readers - i'd rename it!!!

[@adamkoaczek1343]

Good idea

[@phillipkapler8319]

Joe correctly pointed out that Luther betrayed the very peasants who were taking their lead in indignation and insisting upon justice from HIM. He does not go into the cynicism behind Luther's endorsement of slaughtering 100,000 peasant revolters "like dogs". Luther was in league with the aristocracy and gentry. They were supporting his revolt against Rome because they had their sights set on confiscating Church land and property to enhance their wealth and power. They supported Luther in his ever-escalating conflict with the Church, and helped him to live very comfortably throughout. Ironically, it was Luther who was "indulged" by the aristocrats to enlist him in justifying the massacres that took place. He was a complete hypocrite and a traitor to his trusting followers; all to court favor with the rich and profit from that association.

[@janeyount8412]

Facts! How sad.

[@bethanyjohnson8001]

YAY! I'm glad I can see this now!

[@richardcastro1276]

You mean it was blocked for a while. I use the Brave browser maybe they can block me. Or maybe, just maybe that algorhythm ( is that the right spelling...?) ...is Protestant. I have that happen to me I am search from something biblical and everything that shows up is Protestant... it does not say Protestant until you read it. Example: how to combat spiritual warfare... memorize these passages in Ephisians, know your bible really well, leave the bible open to Psalm 91... hummm... I had to add Catholic at the end of that search.... Then, how to fight spiritual warfare : do an examination of conscience and go to confession, pray the rosary daily, attending mass and receiving Holy Communion WORTHILY, Holy Water and in if certain thoughts pop up a quick of slow Hail Mary. I am also consecrated to Mother Mary, so my daily consecration prayer. Thanks Mother Mary for letting me be protected under your mantle. REV 12 last few verses. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. O Crux Ave, spes unica, et Verbum caro factum est. Saludo a la Cruz, nuestra unica esperanza, y el Verbo (Palabra) se hizo carne. I salute the Cross, our only hope, and the Word became flesh.

[@reelaughlin526]

Excellent video. Thanks for all the work that went into it!

[@BensWorkshop]

Small point, if a pound (represented by an L like this £) is worth anything then 240 d. (pence) to a £ makes more sense than 100 because you can divide it by more numbers like 3, 6, 8 and 12 which is not possible with 100 pennies to a pound. It is a much more useful system. Also note that a Shilling is 12 d which is also good for factors. Then you have 20 of those to a £.

[@michaelbeauchamp22]

Oh, that's brilliant. I love learning more about number systems other than base-10, but I still have trouble wrapping my head around it

[@crusaderACR]

Another small point, but more Roman. That "d" in pence used to stand for denarius/denarii. Unlike the pence, it's not a meaningless amount, it was meant to represent 1 day's wage. Very practical for calculations, you could know how many workdays you're throwing at any item. Now get this. In the Roman Empire it could be divided in 2, 4, 10 and 20 parts. It was also a 25th of an aureus. Handy innit?

[@BensWorkshop]

@@crusaderACR A penny (or d) would have also represented a days wages at one point. The system was adopted by King Alfred the Great who got it from Charlemagne (Charles the Great)

[@gerardducharme2146]

I happen to have a book by father Hartmann Grisar s.j an excellent book. Call Martin Luther his life and work written originally in 1927. He used evidence from both Catholic and protestant sources. I found it very informative from the original German source. But excellent. I had someone criticizing the Catholic Church on a number of these same topics. That individual I simply stated to look into that book and they must have I heard no more about it. But yes, there is information out there. It’s a matter of digging it up and utilizing it in support of holy mother church. Thank you, sir, I truly enjoy the program. And God bless.

[@shenliu9253]

Convert here; thank you for this thorough video. God bless your efforts!

[@joaoviktortorresairava6978]

I'm commenting here mostly because I want the algorithm to notice this video. It is very good. However, just a little thing. The Miserere is psalm 50(51) not psalm 95. Thanks for such a wonderful episode!

[@StringofPearls55]

If he's using the Doughy Rheims translation, the psalm are numbered differently.

[@joaoviktortorresairava6978]

@@StringofPearls55 that's why I gave the numbering both in the masoretic and septuagint (or Douay-Rheims) numbering. All psalm numbering covered.

[@StringofPearls55]

@@joaoviktortorresairava6978 Ahhh. You're way ahead of me!

[@1965dv]

This is a great subject to discuss. I'm a practicing Catholic of daily Mass. But I wish this video was presented in a different way.... more direct, going straight to the arguments. I was watching it, thinking of sending it to a couple of Protestant friends, with whom I've had conversations about this and the changed and hidden truth of Martin Luther. I don't know they'll be engaged with this presentation. My comment is not to antagonize, but a true observation to improve how to present these topics. Direct information, straight to the point, seems to me a better way. Thanks.

[@dylanmoore9676]

You take one quote from Archibishop Albert of Mainz to cover over his own abuse of simony, holding multiple offices, and neglecting his ecclesial duties. He was gravely in debt to the Fuggers who helped him buy his multiple bishoprics and so he encouraged Tetzel and others to be extravagant in their selling of indulgences. The reason why the Council of Trent had to condemn the selling of indulgences is because they realized that Luther was right about the state of Germany during his day. Luther’s 95 theses initially were just a way of informing Mainz of the corruption in his realm. He didn’t know that Mainz was in on it or how deep the problem ran.

[@j.g.4942]

Another part is I was taught Luther's translation was the first from Greek and Hebrew and not from Latin, rather than the first translation into German. Also I wasn't aware that the medieval church encouraged laity owning and reading scripture, I suppose they read it in local languages in the liturgy then?

[@dylanmoore9676]

Where did you hear that they encouraged laity to own Scripture in their native tongue?

[@j.g.4942]

@@dylanmoore9676 in the section Joe talks about Luther not being the first to translate the bible into German language/dialects;

[@cookie1054]

Exactly, that’s why the Catholic reformation cleaned up the issuance of indulgences. Even the authorities in the Holy See were disgusted at what Tetzel and the like were doing.

[@MichelleNotUrBelle]

Thanks Joe! Always learn so much from you. Your presentation suits my learning style. So glad I found your channel! 🎉

[@sirgalah4d20]

Once you look at the early Church and the 1500+ years of wisdom tradition and history we’ve been told was just Catholic nonsense it’s hard to take Protestant arguments serious anymore.

[@joeleach5089]

To study history is to see the corrupting influence of the Catholic Church since the Reformation. It is powerful, hierarchical, multinational in scope, clandestine and wealthy. It has worked hand in glove with such governments as the Ancien Regime of France, Hapsburg Austria, Inquisition Spain and the Portuguese/Brazilian Empire, the last Western nation to renounce chattel slavery. It seems unaccountable for its actions, as there is no apparent effective means of checks and balances. The English-Speaking Peoples have been justifiably suspicious of other such systems, like National Socialism and Communism. Beyond that, the Catholic Church claims exclusive authority to interpret the Bible correctly, basically because it says so. It denies anyone salvation outside the church. Through its use of the sacraments, it claims control over the souls of people. One would suspect that such absolute power inevitably corrupts. Anglophones have generally concluded since the death of Bloody Mary that suspicion of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy is well founded. Thanks to the Protestant Reformation, we have the United States of America.

[@ender920]

How many rabbits does it take to feed a family for a week? Google says a rabbit can feed a family of 4-6 for one dinner. Just generically translating pence to rabbits is kind of silly. Saying that 6 rabbits is almost a week's worth of meat for a family is more relatable. No, it's not everything you have, but if you had to choose between feeding your family meat this week or taking a little purgatory time off for grandma because she cussed like a sailor, I'm saying "sorry grandma. Should've watched your language. Kids gotta eat"

[@iwansaputra1890]

3 word for luther. Narcissistic, Opportunist, Egomaniac

[@Prospro8]

Wrong utterly. He was tortured in his soul for many years, and extremely devout as a monk. His confessor Staupitz opened up the idea that salvation was a grace thing, and he was still wracked with battles of conscience for years. Devout he certainly was. This thread is regressively bigoted in its all too obvious misconception. Protestant and Catholic stances are often opposite poles of genuine paradoxes and a good theologian knows this. Europe had largely put this all behind them, except for a few corners like some bits of Northern Ireland. But the USA seems to cling to old polarities from the ancestors. There's great ignorance displayed here, but what to do?

[@iwansaputra1890]

@@Prospro8 from fruit you shall know them what luther's fruit? thousand denomitanion, thousand false teaching and heretic he devout monk? how can devout monk lust for nun? when he said jesus was adulterer, is he really follower of jesus?

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Bi-polar - almost certainly. Even Melanchthon's writings reveal that.

[@MrDoyle07]

@@Prospro8 “but what to do”? Tell truth without shame. Jesus started His Church dubbing it, “My Church”. He appointed a leader and administrators and told them to feed His sheep. The truth starts there, in 33AD.

[@Prospro8]

@@MrDoyle07 There's no inherent claim to anything that anyone could use as a denominational authority in that single ambiguous statement. The concept of a universally authoritative Roman church only really flies universally in the fourth century post-Constantine. Denominations are like snapshots of a moving river. They are only fully true (if ever) at the time of their conception. But since nothing can be perfect in spacetime (the REAL meaning of original sin) the river moves on whilst they tend not to. Each is therefore a kind of miscarriage in a way, on the path to create a kingdom of God on earth. Even a Hindu could tell you that God is both in infinite motion within himself AND 'the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, unchanging yet infinitely changing, which paradoxically amount to the same thing. And he is omnipresent in space and time, millions but one. You can't box that in to create denominational boxes. This bizarre tendency here to ignore that there were very severe corruptions in the Catholic church at that time isn't healthy. There'd been quite a few attempts (Savanarola?) from within the church to reform it, but all persecuted. Sectarianism generally originates in upbringing, and as with the tale of Nicodemus, faith only becomes real when it becomes genuinely your own. 'We're the only right ones' won't fly any more, because it can never be true.

[@davidhoward88]

Great video! Thanks for uploading this! Great info for having discussions, thank you.

[@kaylemoine1571]

Time, talent and treasure. No different.

[@BasilTU]

Joe, I bless the day I found your blog, then your book on the Papacy. Then you joined Catholic Answers and finaly, your podcast. Just know that I would always support you in any way I can, this comment being one way. Thank you Joe!

[@shamelesspopery]

Thank you! That's wonderful to hear. I'm glad I could be of some use to you on your journey.

[@smartismarti4049]

Get your next butterfly farm from Insect Lore instead. 👍🏻 Great content as always.

[@collegesuccess]

21:11 min. mark. THIS really cuts to the chase. Excellent point!

[@TheGenFem]

I’ve been waiting for weeks for this vid but that math really made my brain melt. Thank you so much for putting it into rabbits. I can understand rabbits.

[@liberatewethepeople9121]

Love this channel! 🙏🏼💕.

[@markhorton3994]

What drew Luther's attention to paid indulgences was that some of his parishioners refused to repent of their sins because they had already bought forgiveness some before committing the sin.

[@thekingslady1]

mmm...why do I smell a fish with this story??

[@bman5257]

Source?

[@DD-bx8rb]

The Germans produced dozens of Bibles in the German language before Luther. Protestants are always falsifying history.

[@gulfcitylibrarian5801]

​@@bman5257the 95 theses backs this up

[@tonyharpur8383]

Excellent video, especially the examination of Luther's 95 theses, and the medieval discussion of conscience. Too many myths contaminate popular history.....

[@sproutfire8878]

Will there be a rebuttal by Garvin Ortlund? :) Joe, your awesome! God bless you for all your thorough work! The angels and saints in heaven rejoice every time you make a new video. Ave Maria!

[@ghostapostle7225]

"Look at this picture of Luther hammering the theses. Is just that.." *smirk and condescending quick laugh* "I just don't see how someone could deny this happened!"

[@frenchtoast2319]

I hope so.

[@thekingslady1]

​@@ghostapostle7225😂

[@angelmacas1774]

Thank you Joe for these videos

[@Kitiwake]

Luther's birth name was Luder. He changed it to make himself more marketable. The meaning of Luder when applied to a man implies someone of low cunning.

[@therealong]

It comes to mind the 2016's famous book by late Prof. Rodney Stark: *"Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History"* .

[@Melynn13]

I learned a lot. Thank you so much for always quoting your sources so I can check and refer back for more research later!❤ God Bless

[@starlightatdusk4896]

The biggest lie: Luther and Melanchthon said that they were following S Augustine with their new doctrines. They were not. And they knew they were not, and they openly lied about it. And conspired again and again to lie about it.

[@Quekksilber]

The good thing about that now is that way fewer Protestants put up internal barriers against St. Augustine, opening up a way of return.

[@markhorton3994]

One of the theological influences on Luther was St Augustine. Luther and Melanchthon both quote Augustine in defense of their interpretation of Scripture. That does not believe that either follows Augustine blindly or agree with everything he wrote.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

What do you mean? Augustin clearly wrote "the", "not" "in" "whereas" and many other words. They used those and filled in the rest.

[@tomthx5804]

It appears that the amounts required for an indulgence were quite similar to the offerings that the bible says Jews made at the temple - a lamb for the more wealthy, a pigeon or two for the poorer people.

[@richardcastro1276]

Or even that bit of flour for the poorest of the poor...

[@kaylemoine1571]

Even back then, we were required to contribute to the support of the church within our means.

[@DankBlastBeats]

I was raised Southern Baptist and I have recently become a Catechumen in the Orthodox Church. It's interesting hearing about the reformation from a different perspective. Father Josiah Trenham' Rock and Sand is also really illuminating on this topic. Great video.

[@michaelbeauchamp22]

Hearing all those price conversions really solidifies in my mind that the Catholic Church did nothing wrong with indulgences. The fact that the Church distanced herself even further than it needed to from buying indulgences at Trent is just more proof of her virtue and godliness

[@dylanswift5185]

Wait till you read some of the other interesting aspects of Trent or maybe the Lateran Councils if you want some really spicy doctrine. Get those stars of David out cause we're goin 1940s Germany.

[@michaelbeauchamp22]

@@dylanswift5185 ?

[@nickmoon3196]

10:04 at this point, Joe compares indulgences to tithes, while his point is to show that indulgences were not cripplingly expensive, he says it in a way which makes it seem like there were no OT-like tithes at that period in history. This is however, not the case. JRH Moorman’s History of the Church in England, tithes were paid by all levels of society in the 13th century, and were particularly valuable to the parish priest. (Page 98).

[@susand3668]

Um, but the comparison was intended to show how relatively inexpensive indulgences were, compared to tithes, no?

[@PolymorphicPenguin]

After reading Martin Luther's comments on the Peasants' Revolt, it's hard for me to see Luther as a completely benevolent person. Someone who advocates killing a bunch of people doesn't seem like a very good person. Of course, if I were Catholic, I would probably see Luther as a traitor to the Catholic Church, but even as a Protestant, I don't see Luther in a very positive light any more.

[@shamelesspopery]

I would argue that Martin Luther gets progressively worse as he becomes more Protestant, and that this can be seen even by Protestants. For instance, early Luther (1518) urged Christians to treat Jews kindly for the sake of evangelization. When the Jews didn't all become Lutherans, Luther responded by publishing "On The Jews and Their Lies" in 1543, calling for Christians to "burn down the Jews’ synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God’s name," as well as to burn down Jewish schools and even homes, and to deny them safe conduct on the highway (the very thing Lutherans lament that Luther wasn't offered after the Diet of Worms!), etc. Similarly, Luther went from being sympathetic to violently vicious towards the German peasants. And we can simply observe his writings, how they become nastier and more cruel (and just gross) over the decades. Quite apart from the theological debates with the Catholic Church, I'm not sure how someone reads a lot Luther and concludes that this is a holy man whose religious reforms ought to be followed. He's no St. Francis of Assisi.

[@PolymorphicPenguin]

@@shamelesspopery Thanks so much for the reply, Joe. I'm not convinced that becoming Protestant always leads to becoming evil, but I have to admit that it did in Luther's case for all the reasons you mentioned.

[@michaelbeauchamp22]

@@shamelesspoperyIt's especially interesting that Luther is praised for bringing the Bible and true Christianity to the common man, but then he seems especially against the common man. He doesn't seem like much of an evangelist or a missionary, but rather takes after the same pattern as heretics of old, colluding with civil rulers in order to spread his ideas. It would be interesting to analyze that pattern and compare it more to figures like Novatian, Pelagius, or Caelestius. In other words, how do orthodox missionaries spread their teachings compared to formal heretics?

[@biblestudent4726]

"Someone who advocates killing a bunch of people doesn't seem like a very good person." Another problem is that you are looking at Martin Luther with 21st century ethics. Using 21st century ethics no one, Lutheran or Catholic back in that day, was a good person.

[@PolymorphicPenguin]

@@biblestudent4726 You're right, it's not fair of me to hold people back then to our standards.

[@saintly365]

The video in the beginning is messed up. It repeats and doesn’t show what you want it to

[@RickJaeger]

I think it was probably excised due to an automated copyright issue.

[@God-Will-ing]

17:11 Basically, why are you giving the money? Are you giving to be forgiven? That won’t work. Are you giving for the Kingdom? That works.

[@shlamallama6433]

Very interesting. I wonder what Reformation myths we Catholics believe now that some Protestant myths have been debunked. Thanks for the video!

[@MrRotwell]

Excellent episode (as always)

[@BlankPaperFilms]

Let’s GOO!! Video made it out of purgatory

[@SDG-J316]

I think I got whiplash from this video. First you say indulgences aren’t that bad then you say well the Council of Trent actually did realize there was a problem and sided with Luther. So Luther was right?

[@RickJaeger]

You didn't really understand the video. Luther criticized the way Indulgences were preached about and distributed by specific clergy, but made no criticism of Indulgences-in-and-of-themselves. The Council of Trent agreed on that point and made reforms to address it. However, the _popular myth_ of Luther as someone who opposed Indulgences per se is wrong. That's what the video is about: what's factually wrong with the popular myth of Martin Luther. The world is going to be very confusing for you, if you cannot navigate a not-too-subtle difference in subject like that.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

Luther was a thoroughly nasty character, and when we look at the incentive structures that led to the protestant revolution, especially seperated from the group dynamics by centuries, none of them were really good

[@1odham]

Please explain.

[@AndrewKendall71]

It's truly wild that there's any defense for any form of any indulgence at any cost at all

[@menoftheclothKTOG]

Interestingly, the 95Thesis also supports the doctrine of purgatory.

[@cslewis1404]

Wow. That’s good info.

[@cookie1054]

This is true. Because Luther was still asking for a debate as a loyal son of the Roman See. He didn’t reject the doctrine of purgatory until years later. IMO the reformation as we know it didn’t really start until the Augsburg Confession in 1530. Even then it was presented as a Catholic document with the authors hoping for an ecumenical council to settle the issues. Something Luther was hoping for decades after his excommunication in 1521. Reformation history is far more complicated than what a video can portray.

[@annarogers6883]

Did Luther change or delete Revelation 22:18?

[@steadydividends571]

I loved the last bit from Joe. A move I see people like Gavin Ortlund making (especially on his episode about the letters of Ignatius of Antioch) is something like this: If the letters bother you become Anglican but stay Protestant. In my head I’m thinking if you really thought your reformed Baptist church was 100% the truth you would never recommend someone leave to become Anglican. He knows there are huge differences between Anglicans and Reformed Baptist. The truth is he is not convinced the letters are authentic Don’t like something about Baptists well let’s zoom out and find another Protestant branch that fits your needs. That whole move is so false and incoherent. You basically have to conclude no one knows the truth or the truth is even possible to know therefore we all must do the best we can and follow our “conscience”. Accepting that there is a truth and the truth can be known is step 1 to leaving Protestantism imo.

[@frenchtoast2319]

What you are missing here is that the different denominations disagree on small, minor issues. Not major doctrinal ones. Not issues of salvation or the diety of Christ. Anglicans and baptists are much closer in beliefs than aglican and catholic.

[@steadydividends571]

@@frenchtoast2319 what baptism is/ does and what the Eucharist is / does is a minor issue? Protestants killed each over other these issues and frankly if they were in fact minor issues they would all be in communion but they’re not. Plus who has the authority to declare what is a minor or major issue? Does any protestant church contain an infallible list of issues which are major and directly impact your salvation? No one could ever agree on the list of even if they could come up with a list they would all disagree on what the concepts underlying the words mean.

[@thekingslady1]

Gavin Ortlund is an intellectually dishonest and spiritually dangerous man.

[@govitman]

@@steadydividends571 Can you please provide an example and source of Protestants killing each other over minor/major issues. Also, related to infallible list, does the Roman Catholic Church contain an infallible list of issues which are major or directly impact ones salvation?...or an infallible list of infallible teachings? Related to "following our conscience," this is something everyone must do, whether Catholic or Baptist. You have made a conscience decision to be Catholic and follow the Pope and Magisterium. Protestants have made a conscious decision to read the bible, be lead by the Holy Spirit, and then choice a church that most closely aligns to his beliefs. Catholics in essence let the Pope/Magisterium do this for them. For Protestants, this is not some willy nilly decision. It involves significant study and prayer. And what it leads to is massive similarities of most all dominant Protestant religions on what is required for salvation.

[@steadydividends571]

@@govitman www.worldhistory.org/article/1932/zwinglis-persecution-of-the-anabaptists/ sb.rfpa.org/zwinglis-controversy-with-the-anabaptists/ The vast majority of evangelicals fundamentally agree all adults must undergo believers baptism even if they were baptized as babies. In the reformation this would have gotten you executed by the followers of Zwingli who coincidentally invented the symbolic view of the Eucharist. So one Baptist viewpoint was murdered by another baptist viewpoint. If one wants to find authentic Christianity they simply find the church established by Christ at Pentecost which was given the authority to bind and loose and whose authority has never been taken away. No Protestant can claim continuation with this authority except maybe the Anglicans although who wants to join a church founded so a king can bang his mistress. An authentic truth seeker simply observes the ecclesiology of the early church and can pretty well determine there only options are Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy. If a Protestant has problems with Rome then they should just be orthodox because no authority from Christ has ever been given to any Protestant denominations.