The United Methodist Church Split (2023)

[@revjohnlee]

As an ordained elder of the UMC, I am ashamed to say that you have presented the situation More clearly, more fairly and more accurately than anything I have EVER been able to get from official sources.

[@BrianOfCollegeStation]

I don’t see why that’d be shameful. It’s what RtH does. Dude’s had a lot of practice and he’s really really good at it

[@revjohnlee]

@@BrianOfCollegeStation RtH is anything but shameful. I enjoy and respect this channel immensely. The shame I feel is for the duplicity within my church body. I think that it is more prevalent on one side of this issue than the other but I KNOW it is present on both sides. Both sides have resorted to bearing false witness against the other and attributed motives of evil, often without any evidence, to the other. I maintain that it is possible to firmly disagree and even refuse to compromise on core principles without seeking to hurt others.

[@revjohnlee]

@@livin4dios I believe we are in total agreement. Ready to Harvest has done a magnificent job, as always. It is my church body which is the cause of my shame. I repeat the following that I said before: Ready to Harvest has presented the situation more clearly Ready to Harvest has presented the situation more fairly Ready to Harvest has presented the situation more accurately. The UMC, with rare exceptions, has done NONE of those things. You are correct also. The UMC is in a total meltdown. I fail to understand the issue upon which we disagree.

[@allmyhobbiesareexpensive2676]

@@revjohnlee They half read your comment and flew off the handle, internet 101 basically.

[@xeemnpisyuslis2089]

True Bible Church within the UMC must leave, there is nothing good left for those who stay. The UMC will slowly or has become irrelevant as a true biblical church.

[@lesliehackney7519]

As a lifelong Methodist, I was confused about all this. You explained it so this old lady could understand. Thank you, I appreciate your explanations.

[@jcschwarb]

The problem is he presented it in a very slick way but is very misleading.

[@shapexon3322]

@@jcschwarb How so?

[@jcschwarb]

@@shapexon3322 I provided a write-up just below your comment. This explains the how so. Most folks coming to watch this are trying to justify why they should disaffiliate. This video is very skewed while trying to seem unbiased. It shows the UMC in the worst light and most of it is out of context. Happy to go into further if you would like.

[@mitromney]

@@jcschwarb How can the UMC be in any worse light than it already is? It denounced the Biblical view of marriage. the very first commandment given to men by God in Eden, the very first creation of God - a union between one man and one woman. They've given it all up for a modern view of the secular, sinful world, and with it, gave up on the inerrancy of the Bible and many other core doctrines. UMC has been poisoned by the progressive heretics and the previous vote already showed that FIFTY PERCENT of it is already rotten and ready to be chopped off and threw into the fire by the Lord. How can any actual Church even consider leaving UMC is beyond me. All should be leaving instantly when the last vote was cast, 2023 is a late call already.

[@jcschwarb]

@@mitromney I would agree with you if your facts were correct. The UMC has not changed their written stance, rather they reconfirmed that marriage is between a man and a woman in 2019.

[@callmemeta9724]

So if they're splitting, can they really call themselves the "United" Methodist Church anymore?

[@actionsub]

The "United" in the name is a clap back to the Evangelical United Brethren, one of two denominations that merged to form the United Methodists. There's an old joke about a Free Methodist minister who met with a group of United Methodists. He was asked "what's the difference?" and he replied "We're about as free as you are united."

[@dnzswithwombats]

The name has been a joke from the very beginning in the 1960's.

[@zephaniahgreenwell8151]

Brian Collier brings zero clarity to the position of the Foundry Network.

[@chrisbaier6252]

My mom, who grew up EUB is still a little bitter about the merge. 😂

[@danielhixson3717]

After the decision made by the North Georgia Conference Bishop this past week, it's the 'Captive Methodist Church' .

[@megroux]

Watching your videos is like watching older news programs. When reporters delivered the news without emotion or personal opinion. You are even tempered and unbiased in tone and delivery. It is very refreshing and appreciated. Keep up the great work.

[@Solaceon]

That's what I like about KZbin. You've got everything here from news to weather, and they cite their sources so you can look yourself. It's great.

[@stephenfennell]

Hello megroux, did you mean "When reporters delivered the news withOUT emotion or personal opinion"?

[@megroux]

@@stephenfennell Yes exactly!

[@pinkroses135]

That's what it reminds me of too

[@tinginlang1358]

What part of these verses don't u understand? Leviticus 18:22 Leviticus 20:13 1 Corinthians 6:9 1 Timothy 1:10 Most sins are intermittent, homosexuality is a bold faced continuous practice of sins, if u voted for these ppl, or sympathize with them, u will not escape the punishment as in the day of Sodom n Gomorrah. read ur bible, don't change what the bible said, u will be accounted for what u have practicipated in, as said in ur bible, "wolves in sheep's clothing" r in UMC as said in Matt 7:15, there's no excuse for what u have done. Homosexuality has no place in the kingdom of God no matters how u want of twist or spin it. u will reap what u sowed.

[@christopherluckie5553]

I work at a Methodist summer camp and we usually hold kids of ministers/bishops/elders for our state’s annual conference. The split was so obvious even the 11 year olds knew what was going on. It’s crazy to see in real time an entire schism in a denomination

[@egalitarian-rex]

@Christopher Luckie, Crazy to witness a schism in real time, but not at all crazy for this schism to be happening. Inflexibility and polarization are rampant worldwide, especially among people who are convinced they follow the Golden Rule, but then argue it isn’t applicable to certain “others”.

[@Spartan322]

@@egalitarian-rex The "Golden Rule" should be adherence to the Bible on issues of salvation and sin at the least, God does not give flexibility to man that he could sin, why should the members of God's house be given credence to recognize sin as though it were not sin? That requires the rejection of Christ Himself.

[@egalitarian-rex]

@@Spartan322 I am an atheist, but I am not an anti-theist. I’m happy with my morals which definitely include treating others as I want to be treated. I believe love, empathy, compassion, and kindness are natural traits in human beings. I don’t hate or berate anyone or try to limit them in the pursuit of happiness. I disagree with any idea, practice or movement which moves our government away from democracy or toward becoming an absolute monarchy and/or theocracy. We cannot convert all Americans to one belief, so it ultimately comes down to bloodshed or respectful coexistence. Having your way through the unprovoked use of force is not moral now or at any time in history. After reading your other comments, I can tell you will never accept my right or anyone’s right to have strongly held beliefs that aren’t precisely in sync with your own interpretation of scripture. For this reason I will not be continuing this discussion.

[@Spartan322]

@@egalitarian-rex "I’m happy with my morals which definitely include treating others as I want to be treated." The moral standard for those of Christ though is to be respectful but also to speak truth, that we show true love, not tolerance of sin, love requires the adherence to truth as it was said: "Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 Why should those of claiming God's House on the instructions declared by God so declared by God then be made to violate His Word and yet declare themselves to act in righteousness before God? How could this be righteous when He who declared righteousness yet declared violations of His Word as unrighteous and evil? "I believe love, empathy, compassion, and kindness are natural traits in human beings." "What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” - Romans 3:9-18 The Bible rejects your claim, Paul and Jesus both made these things crystal clear in the NT and Proverbs and Psalms declare much the same, you can not have authority over a subject that you reject understanding to. "I don’t hate or berate anyone or try to limit them in the pursuit of happiness." Does a father hate his son if he warns and punishes his son for violating his charge over him? If I spit in my father's face and call him names, is my father not in the right to punish me for such? God says it is in fact hatred that one allows one to live in sin, it would be hatred to not correct those of sin for they wish to see them die, but those who wish to see another live warns and would praise punishment for the sake of correction. However if punishment does not bring correction, if they continue their evil as they violate God's Law without repentance, God will condemn them for their crimes. The wages of sin is death. "And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” - Hebrews 12:5-6 "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." - Proverbs 13:24 "I disagree with any idea, practice or movement which moves our government away from democracy or toward becoming an absolute monarchy and/or theocracy." This is completely irrelevant to the topic, but God does not respect any aspect of the religions of man that he makes of his government for they are but a means to an end for God's purposes, a nation of God's people who adhere well to His Word will be saved, but a nation against Him will be put to the sword should they refuse to turn from their wicked ways. The Assyrians were saved by through faith, but cities of the Sodomites was destroyed for their sins that they would not relent from though they had been warned. "We cannot convert all Americans to one belief, so it ultimately comes down to bloodshed or respectful coexistence." This shall happen as punishment, I do not wish this, neither would God desire it but because He is just it is required, it is inevitable as God's Law has been violated and even those of the Body of Christ have turned from His Word. A day of judgement shall come, as has come in times before. "Having your way through the unprovoked use of force is not moral now or at any time in history." God has declared men fit to punishment for their transgressions, whether they be of a moral standard or not, the Assyrians were utterly degenerate and yet were declared by God to destroy and enslave Israel, so too the Romans, but so too did God call the Hebrews to wipe out the Canaanites for they had been warned but had gone so far that justice required punishment for their sins. They had done such things that no mercy could be given. So too did He declare such on the city of Sodom and those like it, yet He did not use men in that era to wipe them out. Punishment regardless comes for nations that have done violations against God. "After reading your other comments, I can tell you will never accept my right or anyone’s right to have strongly held beliefs that aren’t precisely in sync with your own interpretation of scripture." This itself is a strawman. I have warned you of the things to come yet you would rather accuse the messenger instead of blame yourself, I am not the one who declares these things to happen but I merely speak them as they have been shown to me. It is not by my power or authority I speak so why do you accuse me? By what standard do you accuse me? For not even the right you claim to itself was made without God yet you declare it inherent. How so? Those without God have no right, yet it is because we know that you have the Imago Dei, the Image of God, that you are granted rights not because you are owed such but because it is a gift. "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?" - 1 Corinthians 4:7 "For this reason I will not be continuing this discussion." The fault is on you for sin, it is questionable why you would even bother to respond if you truly felt so offended.

[@TheTetrapod]

@@Spartan322 God isn't real. You've devoted your life to nonsense. The void awaits you, just as it does me. Get off your high horse and stop judging others for doing things that are harmless to everyone involved.

[@duaneadams5210]

I really admire how you present just the facts without adding your own thoughts or opinions. I wish all news reporters could do this same thing. You are very informative and present your findings in a very intelligent manor. I look forward to each of your videos.

[@jamesparson]

It is a rarity.

[@chrisbaier6252]

I agree. I am not sure what this guy’s personal beliefs are (I have a vague idea). But he presents this very matter-of-fact without personal commentary, and it’s up to the viewer to see how their personal beliefs compare.

[@TheMidnightModder]

Yes! This is how the news ought to be told. Just straight facts.

[@johngalt5166]

@@chrisbaier6252where did you get your idea from, I can’t tell at all, he is really good at what he does 😅 (which is a very good thing lol)

[@jamesparson]

@@numap4701 Did God know this was going to happen?

[@thetravelingmethodist6754]

I am also an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and I appreciate the way in which you reported this story. I believe that it was fair and accurate. I am also very impressed by Your other videos. You do a great job thank you. Please keep it up.

[@PeaceToAll-sl1db]

where does God say to join the United Methodist Church is the Bible?

[@grumpyoldguy6117]

@@PeaceToAll-sl1db Got to say, seems the easiest change is branding, replacing letterhead and business card!! Under new management does not mean "services" will be improved.

[@PeaceToAll-sl1db]

@SpaceAce100 how is it absurd - why would i join a man made church that is not in the bible

[@jcschwarb]

@@PeaceToAll-sl1db what does that question have to do with this topic and the importance? The denomination is being torn apart over misleading information and people’s feelings.

[@jcschwarb]

@@grumpyoldguy6117 you are so right, it just means the new denomination will be known for the one dividing issue. It looks very hypocritical and self-serving to others on the outside looking in.

[@ianalan4367]

“What one generation tolerates, the next will accept.” - John Wesley I fear Mr. Wesley would no longer recognize the UMC. It has long since been very different than the churches that sprang up under his ministry.

[@danherrick5785]

I have a feeling the John Westley was a cavilier in his day. If John didn't go against the grain in his day - nobody would know his name today?

[@ianalan4367]

danherrick5785 - History would support your feeling. The Anglican Church would no longer give the man a pulpit to preach from. The reasoning was that he held to doctrine though. He would not have been accused of altering or watering it down.

[@weirdwilliam8500]

Any Christian from 500 years ago wouldn’t recognize you as Christian. Same for any Christian 500 years in the future looking back at you.

[@sedrox]

@@ianalan4367 Wesley was not solid on doctrine and never developed a systematic theology like some of the other Reformers. He was willing to fellowship and partner with Christians who held different doctrinal stances, and much of his written sermons consist of him "thinking out loud" as he developed his understanding of the faith. I think that he would be disappointed in the schism, first and foremost.

[@danherrick5785]

@@ianalan4367 He still exemplified the spirit of rebeling against the powers that be. The same system that would let a church kill a women if she dressed as a man according to the old testament law. A law that was replaced - by the new.

[@davecallender4038]

Well researched and presented. This was one of the most balanced and thorough presentations on this issue that I have seen or read. Keep up the great work!

[@glasscow9965]

Thank you for excellent reporting! No biases no opinions just the facts in a clear and concise way. You have brought reporting back to a professional level. 🙏🏻

[@actionsub]

0:32 Point of clarification: The UMC's General Conference is (theoretically) held every four years, not yearly, mainly because of getting the delegates from around the world together. 2019 was a special General Conference called for the express purpose of trying to come to some settlement on the LGBT issue. COVID threw a bit of a monkey wrench into holding the regularly scheduled one in 2020, which was supposed to ratify the decisions made at 2020 GC. That said, what United Methodists call "Annual Conferences" are regional in nature and organization.

[@texasskyliner704]

There is no LGBT issue with God. It's a man-made issue.

[@Dulcimertunes]

Charles and John Wesley would find these churches unrecognizable

[@AragornRespecter]

Christ would find them unrecognizable

[@markmower1746]

@@AragornRespecter gay

[@raymondgreen5700]

God by his holy spirit dwells in the bodies of each individual believer the body is the Temple of God not a denomination or building or institution.

[@SteezyRider]

It might be time for those congregations who are prevented from leaving to simply walk away. If the Lord is truly with you then He will provide a way.

[@glennsimonsen8421]

They would be walking away from the church that they have invested in all their lives only to see a distant UMC administration swoop in and abscond with their property. But yes, the Lord will provide a way.

[@mikegraves3673]

Agreed. Jesus has provided a way.

[@KNSKelster]

I suspect that is what the annual conferences are trying to force the congregations to do. The UMC conference wants them to leave the church that they likely built so the conference can keep the property until more liberal Methodists arrive in the area and the UMC won't have to actually find a way to build another church. But the thing is, forcing those congregations to walk way will likely destroy the congregation in the process.

[@colla8676]

I recently resigned from our local UMC. The pastor considered himself a centrist, not giving direction at all to the congregation. Members forced a meeting during covid, since that time the issue has not been addressed and are unaware of what will become of their church. Thank you for sharing this.

[@LtBRS]

@ CollA For a long time this group has had nothing to do with christianity. NO light and NO salt. They exist on an obvious foundation of conflated congregational and denominational multiformity and appeal to a source text (the bible) for its existance that condemns multiformity. Of course they baptize vise to make it acceptable to the socially-engineered, dumbed-down, degenerate culture, and that's just a start. The NEW group takes the same multiformity foundation with it.

[@ianmedford4855]

I stopped going as well... I really liked this church, and had thought that I'd finally found a good one. Then, about 6 months in, all of the sudden they start talking about the utmost importance of race, diversity, equity, and inclusion in faith. Israel is an apartheid state, etc etc. And dont get me started on abortion and homosexuality... And that was it. I never went back. I just want the old Anglican Church back.

[@TheZacman2]

It's not your pastor's job to tell you to vote Democrat or Republican. His job is to preach the Good News of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. Do you think going to church should feel like watching Fox News or CNN news depending on the pastor?

[@dnzswithwombats]

Same in some few Episcopal churches. Saying nothing. Not standing up for the gospel. Whistling past the graveyard.

[@Jaspermoises1835]

I also officially left the UMC and renounced my membership a few years ago when the UMC ordained its first “non-binary” bishop. I knew at the point this was not the church I grew up in and loved nor the one John Wesley envisioned.

[@richardperson6310]

I am not a Methodist. I was brought up as a Lutheran but am not active in the church anymore. I watched this out of curiosity and I am amazed that this splintering is happening. Thank you for your clear and honest relating of this information.

[@martaamance4545]

I grew up in the Methodist Church in the 50s and early 60s when it preached faith in God and not faith in man's political ways. So I quit many decades ago and go my own way. I discovered that I don't need my religion nor my faith 'organized' for me. Do I care what is happening to the United Methodist Church? No. This is what happens when you trun away from the word of God and preach the word of men.

[@RobertWilke]

Amen, soo much truth in that.

[@TheMotz55]

15 years ago, I left another much larger Christian denomination to join the UMC. It's disheartening to see that all this infighting may destroy a church that has been so well-grounded, so moderate and open to discourse, a thinking person's church. I pray for the UMC and I hope there's more reflection on what Jesus would really want.

[@raymondgreen5700]

What does he want??

[@Himmiefan]

Excellent description of the UMC. I think as society swings away from the extremism that's popular now, mainline churches like the UMC will grow. I left the ACNA because of the extreme right-wing and their anger about, well, anything and everything, that the moderation of the UMC felt peaceful.

[@gwenj5419]

Jesus is Truth. I think it's wrong to call it simply infighting, which makes it sound somewhat trivial. What the churches are arguing about is "What is true"? How can you be united with people that disagree on basic, important truth? They are really different religions.

[@TheMotz55]

@@gwenj5419 No, they are not different religions. I can also tell you that church politics is not above any other kind of infighting within institutions.

[@jaaaspokenjay5778]

@@raymondgreen5700 He wants slaves to obey their masters....especially the cruel ones. He also wants people to give all they have to the poor and let god provide for them... so no more 401Ks and no more savings accounts.

[@gregbrown4009]

An excellent and balanced analysis! I still have a lot of friends that "eye roll" that I watch a lot of KZbin, but where else can you get quality analysis like this? Great stuff!

[@Platyfurmany]

I joined the United Methodist Church back in 1977 and have been a member of the United Methodist Church all that time. For the past 10 years, I've been watching all of this unfolding at the North Georgia Conference level. I knew it would be messy knowing that this split was coming. Now that it is upon us, I am greatly discouraged by all the ugly political machinations. I can't help wondering what Christ thinks of this.😪

[@drZok3136]

What Christ thinks ? You have to ask that question ? Either you accept the Bible as the inspired word of God or not. God sez homosexuality is an abomination before me. Need any more clarification ? The umc needs a conference for this ? Don't wonder why young folks are leaving every church...there's no leadership and everyone just wants to get along. Trust me, the real Supreme Court will sort this out quickly.

[@easybreeezyb]

I ask myself the same and I really don't think he would be happy with the split and arguing 🥲

[@darthbigred22]

Really? You think God would keep unity with the Pharisees for the sake of unity? It's a pretty obvious conversation: those who want to change a 2000+ yr old religion because of modern politics/the failure of modern psychology to keep them in the asylums far away from the population and those who can figure if masturbation and looking at another woman count as a sexual sin then the multiple verses covering homosexuality are pretty clear.

[@easybreeezyb]

@@pbajnow unfortunately true

[@easybreeezyb]

@@darthbigred22 yikes, praying for your soul my friend!

[@Yallquietendown]

Good. I’m no longer Methodist but I’m so happy to know the methodist church I grew up in seceded from the methodist conference

[@CheeseOfString]

Wow. I am incredibly impressed with the unbiased voice you've been able to use through this situation

[@mikegraves3673]

True. Also true what Jesus said about hot, cold, and lukewarm.

[@nathanguillaume1247]

This was a great video that was very informative. It was also put out at a great time because my church is voting on potential disaffiliation next week.

[@toddc3988]

Hope and pray for wisdom for you and your congregation. It is a stressful time. It cannot be fun.

[@nathanguillaume1247]

@@toddc3988 Thank you! Prayer is greatly appreciated and greatly effective.

[@ianalan4367]

Lord have mercy and blessings upon your congregation. May I ask why you are considering to split off?

[@MyCousinGrandpa]

Good job Josh. Thanks for keeping us informed.

[@brendajackson294]

Thank you. I am a former Methodist. I had heard about the split but was not in the loop for the details. Thank you for the news.

[@ulexite-tv]

Thanks for a lucid news report. I am not a Methodist (not even a Christian -- i am a Reform Jew), but i found this very interesting and of historical importance. I congratulate you on your balanced and factual presentation of the doctrinal, financial, and representational issues involved.. In my daily work i deal with people of many religious and spiritual faiths, and it is essential for me to stay abreast of current events in these matters, so i will subscribe and continue to follow your channel.

[@BasedZoomer]

What is a reform jew?

[@MFMegaZeroX7]

Yes, as an atheist, I enjoy watching Ready to Harvest to understand the current movements in the churches and what their stances are.

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

@@BasedZoomer Within Judaism there are denominations as well, the OP of this thread is saying she belongs to the Reform denomination, generally the most progressive within Judaism.

[@bobharms8787]

Sad, the Bible is not the central basis for decisions, and the Providence of God is no longer in play...forgive us Lord, may your judgment be the definitive answer, be merciful Lord Jesus.

[@Solaceon]

Ex-Lutheran, just discovered this channel and I'd have to agree. I've been agnostic for 15 years now but still find Christianity and Christian news really fascinating.

[@tonyricketts5569]

As an ex-UMC member, I took the unmentioned option. I left for another denomination. I expect when it all washes out, there will be a shuffling of people between different churches by people belonging to a new church they don’t agree with. GMC to UMC or the opposite. There are a large number of former UMC members now attending the Southern Baptist congregation that I now attend.

[@pwcorgi2000]

I, along with a couple joined a SBC as well. Partially because there was no activity happening at the methodist church. (Nobody wanted to do anything)

[@PocketMarmo04]

That means you are a Calvinist. Good Luck.

[@garrettjohnson7546]

@@PocketMarmo04 No it does not. The two theological structures in the SBC are Provisionism and Calvinism. There are differences for sure but I would not call either heretical because I myself do struggle between the two.

[@thomaswilliams2273]

@@PocketMarmo04 That's okay, though, because they were predestined to be Calvinists before the foundation of the world :).

[@tylercox9053]

Did you watch the previous video on this channel about the pending Southern Baptist split?

[@schs1977]

Because of lack of leadership in the UMC, this once conservative denomination is destroying itself. Those churches that are not allowed to leave will pursue legal action, and it will cost what remains of the UMC millions of $.

[@kjorlaug1]

The UMC has never been a "conservative" denomination. It has been squarely mainline for decades and decades.

[@xheralt]

The conservatism Methodism was founded on (Temperance movement, etc.) is NOT the conservatism of today. When a denomination becomes large enough, it becomes all things to all people. There are conservative elements (live by the Law, as interpreted by men centuries dead) and liberal elements (live by Christ's example, flouting the law as necessary) in large enough numbers each to defy categorizing Methodism (or other large denominations, like Catholicism) as either. Until a schism happens to shake things out.

[@kjorlaug1]

@@xheralt Temperance was always an odd duck for Methodists, considering Wesley himself drank wine pretty much every day of his life.

[@truedarklander]

Skill issue

[@schs1977]

@@kjorlaug1 The UMC I attended was conservative. Maybe not all.

[@samgaspar6322]

What should also be said is that in churches where the vote to disaffilate lost by a small margin, those who voted to disaffiliate left anyway and formed separate churches and mostly joined the GMC. This then will significantly increase, if not double, the number of GMC affiliated churches beyond your projection of 20%.

[@danrose3233]

In addition I bet many of the UMC churches that stay will lose many members and many will fold in the following years.

[@patricklee8088]

@@danrose3233 Which makes denying those churches who want to leave nonsensical.

[@pitpawten]

​@@patricklee8088 They'd rather "cut the baby in half" so that no-one wins rather than cede ground.

[@JM_Solo]

@@danrose3233 this is already happening. I’ve seen it in my own town.

[@kennedythedford9102]

Do you citations for this? Like he did the research and you have no proof ( as of right now) that you're right. Now I am ready to be proven wrong if you can show some sources?

[@gordonpsmith8958]

I grew up Methodist and left the church to move to Free Will Baptist many years ago. My knowledge of the UMC fracturing was confined to occasional headlines here and there. This was so clearly presented as to leave little question as to the circumstances surrounding the fractures. Brilliantly written and calmly presented. You have our thanks.

[@bobmoore303]

I grew up in the EUB and United Methodist religion. This year my church left the UMC and joined the GMC, the split cost my church over $200,000. Many smaller churches want to leave UMC but can't afford the exit dues.

[@letsgococo288]

Nothing but a money laundering enterprise. Sad that most of you good people get taken for a ride.

[@locutorest]

Thank you for this helpful report!

[@briscoedarling3237]

Even putting this question to a vote is an indication of how far the church has fallen.

[@hdturner1]

May all of the daughter churches that emerge Including the original thrive and multiply so that eventually this sad chapter becomes a story of more people in more places having access to Christ Jesus.

[@frzstat]

Amen!

[@pjc342]

Amen!

[@robinchristmas6448]

I replayed this video several times to fully digest all of the information. Our Episcopal Church got a young Priest-in-charge 2 years ago who came from a Methodist Church background. I sort of wondered why he left the Methodists. Thanks for sharing this well done video.

[@MillerMeteor74]

The UMC I attended here in southern NJ left the denomination in 1990 after a unanimous vote of the congregation. They had to buy back their building, which happened maybe a year or two later. More recently another local UMC left. That was in 2019. They were locked out of their building in 2020, but were able to buy it in 2021.

[@murielsteinmetz4274]

as it was in the days of Noah and Lot!!!! sow the wind, reap the whirlwind!!!

[@edwardpearce1138]

Sad. Very sad. But if we are truthful, we have to recognize that it is not primarily about LGBTQ issues. I am old enough to remember when it was "The Methodist Church" and not the "United Methodist Church" and even then, there were people sowing dissension. We would be so much happier if we would take Jesus' teachings and apply them to ourselves, and trust God to deal with those on both sides who wish to profit from division.

[@dantarot]

I'm remember when it was the Methodist Episcopal Church. And of course earlier the church split over slavery. Many of the congregations are now joining the "global" church.

[@cameron1077]

@@dantarot wait, so when did the Episcopal church split off?

[@dantarot]

@@cameron1077 Everything is not a split. Sometimes it was an effort to join together...hence the 1968 United Methodist effort.

[@arthouston7361]

I grew up in the Methodist Church when it was the first Methodist Church, and there wasn’t much emphasis on the plan of salvation for the teachings from Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Thirty years later, I trusted Christ as my savior and found an independent Baptist church, and I am so so glad that I found Jesus and a church that honors the Word of God!!!!! Brothers and sisters, you must reject false teachers!!!!

[@FalconJudah]

AMEN!!!

[@yprimrose]

I saw this coming back in September 2011, when I was UMC(GA) at the time. I read articles about changes to marriages and requirements for church leadership in Texas, which I forwarded to all the churches and pastors I knew asking them to research it and pray asking God to show them what was going on. It went right over their head or some refused to read the writing on the wall. What was a small pebble, is now a wave. There has been enough time to figure out what they would do if those changes went through in 2011. Guess we will find out more in a few about the state of the UMC.

[@christopherbryson3767]

Thanks!

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Thank you Christopher!

[@zachsmith5515]

so the Methodists split from the Church of England which itself separated from the Holy Catholic Church and now they're splitting themselves. the joys of protestantism

[@ZIEMOWITIUS]

Yes, the Catholic Church isn't nearly as susceptible to branching off like this because it doesn't make much of an effort to follow the scripture to begin with.

[@erikbunty2016]

​@POCKET-SAND No, buddy. Our Bible is still intact. Protestants, like Marty, later deleted books from the bible.

[@erikbunty2016]

Satan caused all these divisions.

[@samblackstone3400]

If sexuality is splitting up your church the plot was lost long ago. This applies to more groups than just the one in this video.

[@thomasc9036]

PCA just held off the homosexual acceptance attack in 2022. It was closer than expected but probably bought another 5-10 years till the next wave of attacks.

[@Yipper64]

indeed. The bible is clear, to flee from sexual immortality. If it ever got bad enough that it splits churches, then for certain, the plot has been horribly lost.

[@texasskyliner704]

@@Yipper64 Well put.

[@MrKit9]

If your Church preaches hatred and harm to others then is was never a Church.

[@Yipper64]

@@MrKit9 Id agree but your definition of "hatred and harm" probably includes teaching what the bible says, so in reality its the opposite.

[@proper1420a]

A correction: the paragraph 2553 "exit plan" (@2:40) was not part of the Traditional Plan. It was a separate petition (90066) submitted by a supporter of one of the more progressive plans. The Traditional Plan did originally include a petition (90041) that addressed disaffiliation, but that petition was dropped during the General Conference, and the 2553 exit plan passed. I don't know why it turned out this way. I mention this because complaints by traditionalists about 2553 have been called hypocritical by some based on the false premise that 2553 was part of the Traditional Plan.

[@sombra6153]

I grew up in the UMC and figured this was coming almost ten years ago when a pastor of a mega- church I attended blogged that we might have interpreted the Bible wrong all these years. I had also, as a church member in one conference, noted how the bishops didn’t seem interested in backing up a good pastor and Bible teacher who came at odds with members over something a member’s kid had done because some of them were well endowed with financial resources and the congregation was trying to build a building.

[@highup7]

Well, no matter what the religion is, money talks.

[@potatoheadpokemario1931]

​@@highup7 which is all the more reason we need to guard against greed

[@mikelawlor1533]

@@potatoheadpokemario1931as long as there’s paid clergy and where people own churches…this is their GOD

[@mikelawlor1533]

In order to support and back up and get rid of confusion and manipulation in the books of the Bible… The book of Mormon was sent.

[@bethannarmentrout]

Thank you very much. Best information I’ve gotten so far. I’ve recently returned to the UMC I grew up in. Decided to start my grandchildren in my childhood church. They are 6 and 8 however I got thrown into this mess and now our church deciding what to do. I think what would the founding members of my church think and pray for God’s guidance. Thank you again!

[@toranshaw4029]

Ta for the update on this. With some UMC conferences being a lot smaller than they were previously, I can see a lot of reorganization in happening, with the now smaller ones (like the one you mentioned in Texas) merging with others!

[@Caderic]

I think it's going to crater the finances of the UMC.

[@MenwithHill]

Man I miss when you could just hammer your creed to a church door.

[@henrybalkwill3276]

It’s very difficult when the door is made of glass.

[@thomasc9036]

That's no help either. Look what happened to Roman Catholics, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, and others. Balancing charity and Biblical integrity is a challenge. Churches try to be charitable, then 20+ years later, they allow homosexual couples into the Lord's Supper. We see this patter over and over.

[@erikriza7165]

many people have done that, and are doing it. it only makes things worse.

[@Anthony-sm8wy]

I mean, you still could. This is essentially a battle over property and money.

[@thomasc9036]

@@erikriza7165 I need to disagree. Most local churches that focus on studying their confessions and catechisms slow or prevent falling away. Those local churches that do not submit to the magisterial authority and do not actively teach tend to fall away.

[@thegoodnewslife]

Jonesboro FUMC is my home church. What you didn’t mention was that the DS and Bishop oversaw, attended, crafted, and approved the WHOLE process as it was occurring. And they NEVER said anything was being done incorrectly. Nor did they coach the congregation afterwards on where “things went wrong” for them To deny our disaffiliation vote. It also doesn’t matter if it was 69%… the rule is 67. Whether it’s a vote at 99% or 68%… the threshold is the threshold.

[@noneofyourdamnbusiness3706]

You mean people in your congregation can't figure out simple math. Why be somewhere where you aren't welcomed? Go live in harmony elsewhere.

[@2007NissanAltima]

Good on methodists standing up for their beliefs

[@rickbrickles1410]

It’s really hard to speak on this. We must stay with the word of Jesus our teacher….

[@greenguitarfish]

The UMC as a whole, abandoned scripture a long time ago. Now it’s only a matter of the degree of sin and disobedience is acceptable. It’s disintegrated more and more over the years until it’s more like a quasi religious community center of sorts. As a child I remember when my parents knew it was time to get out. I’m so glad we did !

[@kmbbmj5857]

As someone who was raised Methodist, I haven't left, but the UMC long ago left me. It just greatly saddens me that the UMC lost its way years ago.

[@greenguitarfish]

@@kmbbmj5857 Well, the body of Christ is made up of all those who have accepted Jesus into their heart and received His forgiveness. I hope you have good fellowship with true believers. Also, staying in Gods word is essential. Both are so very important, especially in the time we are living.

[@fishingthelist4017]

I have attended United Methodist Churches, and the business and social aspects became apparent when my family faced difficult times. They may send out mission trips and support groups outside of their congregations, but they put strict limits on helping those within, and this was in what was considered a leading "conservative" congregation. The last UMC we attended was even worse.

[@ElricX]

Good informative video, thank you. I grew up going to a Methodist Church. Learning of this saddens me.

[@skittlesandfriends5710]

Very well prepared and presented, My Methodist church recently voted at our Charge Conference to Disaffiliate from the Methodist Conference, with 93 percent of the members voting to leave however we are going to be an independent church now, with no association or membership in another conference or denomination. Our Pastor has said that there will be no change in our ministries, Worship services, events or activities, Our HR and executive Leaders have been working on the necessary legal, financial, and administrative tasks to get set up as an independent church with the State, While this is a very sad moment in the life of our church, we are also excited about what the future holds for us as we travel down this new road.

[@gaylawars-white9692]

As a lifelong Methodist, I was confused about all this as information wasn't forth coming initially. You explained it in easily understandable manner. Thank you, I appreciate your efforts of truth.

[@brandonhernandez4840]

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Mat. 7:13-14

[@SMaamri78]

Bingo

[@blessingjohnchelliah4317]

By that standard most of humanity are destined to eternal damnation.. How do you reconcile that with a loving God?

[@michaelnewton5873]

My late Grandma would be sad about this. She was a long serving President of women's guild.

[@williambarron4755]

As a Roman Catholic priest, I wish that all denominations of Christianity would take their established doctrines (and the Bible!) more seriously. That would increase our visible unity together which would be a good thing. Teachings matter!

[@RobertWilke]

Soo true, but as they say it's lost in translation. Too many allowances for different languages and beliefs have caused much of this. When you can't agree on anything division occurs. We're now seeing this writ large across the country.

[@howtubeable]

The United Methodist Church lost its way in the 1970's when General Conference voted for Theological Pluralism. Pluralism sounded nice at the time. Everybody was free to be groovy and believe whatever they wanted. Sadly, the church only embraced the lowest common denominator. Soon, the church was full of people speaking warm fuzzies. Since then, there have been no theological standards.

[@PeaceToAll-sl1db]

pray one day you will be saved from the evils of Rome

[@williambarron4755]

@@PeaceToAll-sl1db are you a troll? There is a bridge across the Tiber you can use if you want

[@raymondgreen5700]

You are member of an institution that has more blood on it's hands than any institution on earth and yet you seem to think you have a voice in this matter The father only hears the prayers of those who excepts Jesus as Lord and there isent any one else who can meditate between the creator and mankind not Mary or any saint or priest or pope the Holy spirit rules over the body of Jesus and no one else

[@briandunning2974]

As always, detailed and succinct clear presentation of the issues. I appreciate this channel for not wasting time but giving the facts clearly. Keep up the good work.

[@libertyvilleguy2903]

A well articulated, balanced presentation. So rare these days. Thank you.

[@danzinoraswitch3896]

Thank you so much for this. I felt like I was losing my mind. My mother and I are the only ones who still attend the Methodist church in my family, different churches since I now live 5 states away. Her church, the one I grew up in, is voting on whether or not to disaffiliate in April. It's mind boggling to hear. She's been giving me updates for the past three years on all of this and how the pastor is really pushing to disaffiliate (note: my mom does not want this. She wants to stay. The congregation is mixed but they had to fight to get proper representation of the benefits to staying after the pastor got a speaker to talk about the benefits of leaving). It's like a drama playing out. And meanwhile where I live, my church, also UMC... not a whisper. Of anything. I had to ask the pastors "what is going on? Where does this church actually stand on these things? I have no idea" and I get vague "we stand for love" and "there really isn't any news in the larger UMC". Which... sounded wrong? But we also had a pandemic stop a lot of things so I thought okay maybe? So I really appreciate this breakdown. It was too weird for me in this place between hearing about all these rocking changes from the church I grew up in and the "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" vibe from the one I attend now. (Halfway attend, now. I'm looking for another church and would like to stay UMC. But your video has been very helpful!) Thank you so much for sharing.

[@dddz961]

This channel is a public service

[@fouresterofthetrees287]

One thing you missed. If a church votes to leave, the pastor must either resign from the UMC and potentially give up his pension, or must be moved to another UMC.

[@americanundergroundchurch5051]

And many of those pastors don’t believe in Christ nor his words in Matthew 6 telling them not to worry about money.

[@FriarJoe66]

@@americanundergroundchurch5051 based on what? Why are you so comfortable disparaging pastors that you’ve never met nor talked to?

[@americanundergroundchurch5051]

@@FriarJoe66 Based on their decision to remain in the employ of a fallen church for financial reasons.

[@bobcrow7580]

Makes sense that they resign from UMC, but then lose any pension they have earned during their service? OOOF, that's awful. At least with a 401K, if you leave a company, you keep what you've already paid in. Seems UMC is very spiteful.

[@joer5627]

People leave jobs all the time. Why would they lose their pensions? As an example I left a job after 9 years. Upon retirement I was able to take monthly payments or a cash out amount. I lost nothing. Are clergy pensions so sorry that is not possible?

[@charlesstribula3477]

Great video, although there are other issues besides human sexuality (e.g., role of scripture, and nature of Jesus).

[@brushylake4606]

UMC: "Here's what you have to do." Jonesboro FUMC: "Ok, done." UMC: "Sorry, that didn't count."

[@edwardhill7045]

I would rather be right with God than be right with any church .Kudos to all of the churches who left this hypocritical affiliation .God bless them for taking a STAND FOR GOD AND MORALITY

[@chrishendricks7362]

Thank you for sharing this, as a Florida Presbyterian who should be more active, I have been wondering what is going on with Protestant Churches in general during these wild times. Your video gave me some answers to my inquiry and it was very informative. Good job.

[@Dulcimertunes]

It’s called apostasy

[@TheEverFreeKing]

@@Dulcimertunes No thinking differently isn't apostasy.

[@RoKBottomStudios]

​@@TheEverFreeKing going against scripture sure is.

[@tannerfrancisco8759]

@@TheEverFreeKing being antiChrist is

[@walterhenderson2155]

Traditionalist are welcome at the Catholic Church.

[@denmar355]

I find it so very difficult to understand how this is even a question. A plain and basic understanding of Gods Word is clear. How any “church leaders” argue that homosexuality is ok is beyond my understanding. You can choose what you wish, but the you cannot distort the clarity of the scripture. I feel bad for the families caught up in this ugly distortion of “church”.

[@diresplong]

The clarity of the scripture reads that you are in no position to render divine judgement. Your faith in God does not bestow upon you his authority, but his grace. Jesus sat amongst the castoffs of his society and did not judge them. He gave them a path that they might take it. There is a reward on earth, and one beyond. The latter is not gained by preaching wrath on the street.

[@blueheron4498]

A large portion of the new testament consists of a church leader chastising errant church members

[@MrKit9]

You poor dear. You haven't had someone translate those sticky 7 passages most often used against normal gay people. You the Bible speaks out against pedophilia, rape, forced sex on your battle foes, temple prostitution but Jesus never said one word against gays. Not One. Paul may have but Paul never met Jesus.

[@ChristianAuditore14]

@@diresplong lmao wrong

[@peaceful525]

@@diresplong This is just not Biblical. Start your own religion with these beliefs but it's not Christianity.

[@Toetalwar]

nice to always see the ones who break the rules are the ones who get to keep the denomination. sums up the entire mainline. sad.

[@Toetalwar]

also the leadership postponing the conference till after the expiration date out of "fear of covid" sounds quite nefarious.

[@grantswann9328]

Literally so real, why have we become so prone to fleeing and cowardice, instead of fighting to keep our churches and denominations aligned with Christ?

[@diresplong]

@@grantswann9328 Because you don't have to. The Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands. Read Acts, not words.

[@bobchipman4473]

It is somewhat shocking to me that such a clear cut issue is causing a schism. The Bible is pretty explicit on these matters and there isn't really any wiggle room.

[@fredschroyer584]

Outstanding presentation. Really makes everything clear. Thank you.

[@77777771955]

This is more than amazing. This is not about God, or Jesus, it’s about power and grift.

[@edp2260]

This issue has been dividing the church for at least 50 years. I remember longtime members and their families leaving even then. Our church was closed and sold as a result of declining membership. A real shame.

[@TyroneBeiron]

According to Protestant ecclesiasology, these divisions etc do not affect in any way the 'body' of Christ and thus does not bother them if there are further splintering or not. In many ways, that ecclesiasology promotes it.

[@JosephsCoat]

Interesting critique. I’ll allow it. If I had to guess though, 85% of the folks in the UMC aren’t actually in the body of Christ anyways.

[@abyssimus]

Which protestant ecclesiology? Protestantism isn't one theology. In some protestant denominations, there'd be folks on both side of the issue emphasizing that as long as everyone agrees on the core tenets, this is really more of an administrative matter. But there are also churches (or members of churches) that would view this split the way the Catholic church would view the Synodal Path in Germany. There's others that would view this split the way the Catholic and Orthodox churches have viewed the Great Schism (perceptions of which have shifted over time). There's also some that would see the splitting members (or members that didn't split) as followers of the Antichrist who has only managed to infiltrate the Second Baptist Church of Aigleville, Alabama because The End is coming soon. And this might come across as an argument that "haha, the protestants can't agree on anything," but the issues there are: -a category error on the reader's part (not mine) in thinking that protestants are supposed to be one thing. While some protestant churches see this as an issue to be addressed, they don't have the same answers -- and many see the entire question as a fundamental misunderstanding of what a church is supposed to be. -almost all protestants (and Catholics and Orthodox) *DO* agree on the most important things, and to ignore that is to say that those things don't matter (a big mistake) This is not to say that you, Tom, have specifically committed the latter mistake at all (I only bring it up because I've seen too many discussions that clearly forget the importance of what we do agree on). However, I'm having trouble finding a reading of your post that doesn't lead to the first category error.

[@heva2337]

The difference is that protestant churches aren’t from apostolic succession like catholic and orthodox. Funny how protestants divide from protestants. Who really has truth? Who really is the one church of Christ? Lets pray that these divisions don’t stray us away from christ.

[@BigRich1978]

This is why I left the Methodist church over 10 years ago.

[@m444ss]

i live in North Georgia, so am directly affected by the decision to prevent any firther disaffiliation. no glibal methodist church for hundreds of miles. nearest traditional methodist church is in Marietta, but that’s a heck of a drive from our house. since we dont want to join a traditional church with doctrine we dont accept (re baptism, election) effectively, my wife an i are now without a church.

[@jimtaylor1045]

You "apply" to be a GMC if your congregation disaffiliates. Or you can take the initiative to start one with like-minded members who are disenfranchised from the UMC. I personally know of a group that is temporarily meeting in a a school auditorium until they can find other accommodations.

[@trickybeatle2189]

I need a video comparing and contradicting all 3 new Methodist denominations

[@jamesparson]

I think you wanted the word contrasting.

[@joer5627]

Do a search. Videos are out there

[@kale6264]

I don’t understand, when the Bible is so clear on this issue

[@PseudoPseudoDionysius]

Perhaps such separation are for the best, but it’s sad to see them happening with acrimony and feuding.

[@ThisBloke760]

I’ve been waiting for this season. Major denominations are collapsing all around the world Methodist & Anglican being the two latest. It seems that the ‘church’ is more interested in their own survival rather than spreading the gospel. Maybe this is a precursor to eventual true freedom in Christ where everyone has a relationship with Jesus and studies scripture for themselves, being guided by Holy Spirit and spreading the gospel from pure joy and excitement.

[@darth3911]

Have you not read the prophecy of revelations?

[@DottyKupsky]

Thank you for this. Concise, detailed and clear.

[@jacobherron6685]

We have problems in the UPC just need to pray for all Christians ✝️

[@AnthSchaef73]

The General Conference meets every 4 years. If I’m not mistaken 2019 was a special called conference. The regular scheduled conference was to be in 2020 making the 2024 the next quadrennial meeting.

[@frzstat]

You are correct

[@jaddkay1]

My local church was originally the Evangelical United Brethren Church in the 1960’s. Suddenly it changed to the United Methodist Church and all seemed fine for a number of years. I had my children Baptized in the UMC Church where we all attended Sunday Schools and regular church services. The first two ministers were great and both stayed for a number of years and I knew where they stood. However, after the retirement of the second minister and a new one assigned I noticed a change starting to occur. Slowly and incrementally I started to notice the liberalization of teachings. The old traditional values were slowly being replaced with the new man made values. That was 22 years ago. Its been that long since I left the church…. Its a real shame what is happening today in the church. Like one of the 7 churches in the last days.

[@sonnyboy8957]

1Timothy 4:1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

[@Wally943]

I was unaware of this discussion/rift until a family member in a different conference asked me about it. Their church had already decided to leave the UMC. The leadership of the conference that my church is in has, until late 2022, practiced keeping their heads in the sand, not providing any information. The church where I am a member continues to avoid any reference to the schism.

[@iconodule3938]

I’m glad I left the UMC for the Orthodox Church way back in 2013

[@Bfordandafter]

Our local Methodist church overwhelmingly voted to leave two months ago. The congregation is back to just worshiping and numbers are up.

[@316350]

This was an excellent video. I’m not remembering if you have ever posted a video of your personal denominational affiliation or not. If you are not a member of the UMC; you did a phenomenal job.

[@bobcrow7580]

He did awhile ago... I think Independent Baptist. Anyone else remember for sure?

[@MilwaukeeWoman]

Considering how many videos he has contrasting denominations with Independent Baptist it's likely that's what he is.

[@316350]

@@bobcrow7580 now that you say it; I vaguely remember the video. I believe you’re correct. 👍 Thanks. 🙂

[@DavidLee-id3lf]

He was a professor at an indepedent baptist college, you can find old lectures of his as some of the oldest uploads on his channel

[@deborahkn1114]

Loving and welcoming all sinners ( we are all sinners) does not mean we should promote the sin. We should not be proudly announcing our intentions to continue to sin on our sleeves. Jesus said that you are forgiven, go and sin no more.

[@charlesmhorn]

I’m Catholic and I can say I fear for the same thing happening in the Church. The devil is prowling like a roaring lion searching for souls to devour.

[@johnsmithSongbird]

My great grandfather was a Methodist He was in Arkansas in 1830 Before the civil war My grandma said the old time Methodist were much like pentecostal She say in 1945 the church was called the united Methodist Robert Coke was the man who came to America in 1700 He organized the he fastest growing christian church In America By 1890 the Methodist was the largest church membership My grandma said she remembers how members spoke in tongues and was just like pentecostal They used sprinkling only because John Wesley did this because he often was in places with no water

[@jimm6386]

This commentary shows just how crazy religion is in general. Being Christian means accepting EVERYONE - blocking out a group is as anti-Christian as one can get. Being gay is a result of genetics - it gives the family with gay people in it an advantage over others who do not have gay members. Look at it from an anthropological point of view - in multi-generational families (which throughout time have been the way people amalgamated themselves), those with gay people have built in baby sitters - leaving those parents free to go work in the fields, hunt or gather - or in todays parlance, to go work to help bring in enough money to enable the family to survive into the future - that is an advantage - survival of the fittest. So for those ignorant of this, your loss, gay people's gain.

[@suzanneyoung8011]

@@jimm6386 your comment has nothing to do with Christianity and is more about your belief systems. Your premise of accepting everyone is wrong. Being a Christian is not about "accepting" others. If so, then that would mean we would have to accept Hindus, Muslims, witches, satanists and many other "religions" that disagree with our beliefs. Christians are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves. That doesn't mean we are to accept their beliefs or their lifestyles. We are to follow the Word of God and teachings of Jesus Christ, including loving and praying for others. That certainly does not mean that we are to accept their choices that are in direct conflict with the Word of God.

[@ihave_noidea]

​@@suzanneyoung8011 Would you be able to love your fellow man if you weren't commanded to?

[@shapexon3322]

What I'm getting from this comment is that gay people are built in babysitters. Am I misunderstanding something?

[@kimberH1005]

I was raised Methodist and very active in the church. In recent decades based on the church's views on this matter I have no longer felt at home in the church that was such a big part of my life. I am relieved to see this finally moving forward. Faith is supposed to be faith in God and love for all other people.

[@mercster]

This is a good reason for churches to just stay independent. You can be fully Methodist (in whatever historical context your congregation and pastor thinks that means), and just teach that and worship in that way. That way in the future, a "big brother" cannot hold you for ransom and threaten your ownership of property. God doesn't judge people based on what name was painted on the side of the church they went to. He also does not judge based on creeds, confessions, or alliances. He judges men's hearts. Stay independent, in fellowship with all Christians of good faith. Let God sort out the rest.

[@mercster]

People need to understand that even if they believe their pastor is "correct" in matters of doctrine, if those pastors are so concerned with this synodical/conference BS, they are likely "playing church"... jockeying for influence and prestige where none exists anyway. Trying to be "exalted" before man, instead of humbly teaching the Word of God to their congregation. Reverence no man, only God.

[@Yipper64]

he judges based on if someone has sinned or not, and we have all sinned, God's judgement is upon us all, the only way to the father is through Jesus. Thats how I see it anyways. But yes, you are not judged based on the words on the side of the building.

[@leullakew9579]

So, just switch to the congregational model like the Baptists and Pentecostals.

[@Gale1303]

Many churches leaving the UMC will remain independent. Should our church get the 66.7% vote will be an independent Methodist church. NO bishops over us. Our church following the the traditional Methodist church doctrine. Our prayer is that we can get the vote in our very diverse church where so many are clueless to what is happening, we can have a traditional church for the members of 6 other UMC churches that the pastors are very liberal and progressive or just will not even address the discernment process. Those traditionalist think they are ok being in the south but it will hit them broadside when it happens. And we want a place for them to join us. When I say traditional I do not mean ultra conservative. We are much more open that that. We just cannot live under bishops who have no restraints.

[@mercster]

@@Gale1303 God bless, hope everything works out. 👍

[@AmboyChamblis]

All these splits among these divisive sects are proof men seek there own glory and there own empires! No reality of Christ in any of these division makers... "Is Christ divided?"

[@jessicakopecky7230]

That was some great reporting!

[@stephenbailey9969]

There is and always has been one church, the congregation of all people in Christ across all time. There is the Lord and there are people. Denominations are historical and cultural artifacts. A person isn't called to follow a denomination, rather to follow Christ. The Spirit guides him or her to the people He wants them to fellowship with, regardless of the sign on the church house door. Leave the politicking to others. Just follow Jesus.

[@jamesparson]

So all churches are equal?

[@stephenbailey9969]

@@jamesparson Denominations come and go. They are tools the Lord uses for carrying his gospel across the years. When they turn away from the Lord (as was foreseen in scripture, Revelation 3:15-19), then he moves his people to repentance or to move on and use new tools. The Spirit will guide each person who walks with Christ where they should be in the here and now, where they should live and speak the love of Jesus to others. Every believer should pray and ask for His guidance. But in the end, there is one eternal church: Christ's people. (church = Greek ekklesia = an assembly of people) There are no denominational signs in eternity.

[@jasonharris2291]

This "spirit" dude seems pretty laissez faire about doctrine.

[@stephenbailey9969]

@@jasonharris2291 He is the source of all doctrine, and also the distributor of God's grace. None of us will go to our grave without being wrong about something or without sinning about something. (Not loving as we ought or causing dissensions is sin, too. Galatians 5:19-21) That's why it's called 'grace' and not 'merit'. That which matters above all else is simple: "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved (Acts 16:31)." After that, the Spirit does His work making us new people, conforming us to the image of Christ. Will some people lose out on blessings because they are wrong or aren't listening like they should, no doubt. But that doesn't mean they aren't saved by His grace. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15) We are not the judge. Christ is. So, let each person listen to the Spirit's voice in scripture and in their own hearts, walking in accord with Him and performing works of love toward others, trusting the Lord to carry us through the trials of this life.

[@jdgill686]

I've noticed a lot of UMC properties up for sale on commercial real estate sights.

[@myleshagar9722]

The clerical vultures must leech from the resources built up from yesteryear, resources they can never, ever construct.

[@Erik-rj6ql]

@@myleshagar9722 it’s difficult to build a society but easy it falls

[@fuji302]

So much of Protestantism is sola scriptoria, it’s ironic that tradition is a point for doctrine.

[@abyssimus]

Sola Scriptura is a specifically Lutheran doctrine that has crept into a few other denominations. Luther was never any sort of "Protestant Pope" who could decide what are and are not the one and only standards for all of protestantism. Anglicanism, Methodism, and many other protestant groups instead of "Prima Scriptura." Wesleyanism/Methodism in particular has what's called the "quadrilateral" of scripture, reason, tradition, and experience (with scripture being the most important, reason and tradition balancing each other, and experience coming in to fill any gaps left). And even the Sola Scriptura crowd would have to acknowledge that the understanding of the Church Fathers and the collective understanding of generations of well-studied theologians would be better informed than someone with no familiarity with the Bible, theology, or ancient history (e.g. the sort of TikTok-ers who InspiringPhilosophy does take-down vids on). That would be their argument for why I can't just go into their church and tell them that Calvin, Luther, or Zwingli were wrong about topics I disagree with them on.

[@matthewbateman6487]

Sad, scary, and challenging.. I say this with genuineness and charity, and not in the least to point fingers or snicker.. But to any traditionally minded Methodists out there looking for direction and solid ground -- the Catholic Church has not changed any of its essential teachings in 2,000 years. I believe Christ's truth will always be welcome there; and we could use your love, zeal, and passionate faith as well! +Peace to all in Christ.

[@tomroyal6167]

Why doesn’t the Methodist denomination just preach the gospel as when the Wesley brothers began? The chaos they are going thru today is what the book of Galatians says “you reap what you sow”.