The Universe Began, Therefore Virgin Birth (Lee Strobel Case for Christmas response)

[@leebarnett2610]

"Sent them to waiting rooms so that all the sick people could touch common objects" 😂

[@adrianblake8876]

I always thought they were sent to beauty parlours, though...

[@jimjohnson3349]

I always read them in barber shops, but only the gun, sports, and hunting mags

[@dasbus9834]

"There's a totally scientific explanation for the virgin birth!" _(wait for it...)_ "It was a miracle!"

[@alanw505]

And turning water into wine on a molecular level would have caused a nuclear disaster.

[@damianjonsson1688]

@@alanw505 turns out the K-T boundary was caused by God's first attempt at wineification, not a giant rock smashing into the planet Edit: also, if you want to talk about molecular issues, resurrection would be exponentially more complex than water into wine :P

[@terminusadquem6981]

Oh, the suspense... damn! that was a shocker! 👁️👄👁️

[@tompatterson1548]

Also, a virgin birth would only result in a girl because XX cannot produce an XY.

[@TheHikariLP]

Joseph: "My wife said god gave her this child. I immediately believe her because I can't believe I am being cheated on and I only allow god to cuckold me."

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

Someone just needs to ask Lee Strobel "were you there?" over and over until he starts crying.

[@Ponera-Sama]

Someone needs to send Lee Strobel to heaven as soon as possible.

[@ahtech1990]

@@Ponera-Sama Dude.

[@patchwurk6652]

@@ahtech1990 Doesn't have to be murder. Just give him enough Big Macs and let nature take its course. There's no way his heart can take much more blockage, and he certainly doesn't look like he refuses meals.

[@bariumselenided5152]

@@patchwurk6652 that’s just murder with extra steps

[@SilverSixpence888]

@@bariumselenided5152 but it's one you can get away with!

[@Kruppes_Mule]

"He very well may have interviewed Mary." Or he might have dictated it from his dog barking in morse code! Making things up is so much fun!

[@robhogg68]

"The conception story of your sibling isn't something you want to hear at the best of times." Paulogia "My father would tell the story of impregnating my mother every winter solstice... it was beautiful. You Earthers have hangups!" Drax, Guardians of the Galaxy 2

[@HomiOmi92]

Paul, I just want to thank you for sharing these videos and how you speak so calmly and with so much research. I grew up evangelical-Baptist in the southern US. I've had to overcome so much indoctrination, guilt, and fear. I'm relieved to hear what you share.

[@swolejeezy2603]

Paul really is the best out there. After him I think is GMSkeptic and Cosmic Sceptic

[@stylis666]

@@swolejeezy2603 I would like to add that Prophet of Zod and Shannon Q should be considered as well, for their addressing the manipulation and mental abuse that is required to indoctrinate and teach religious ideas and doctrine and to top that list off I would suggest Theramintrees. Although not so much a creator of response videos but rather someone who delves into the psychology behind and as a result of abuse, mostly by (religious) narcissists. I think they're the best. On top of that, I think that, for now, Shannon is the only one who also talks about how religion inevitably triggers and feeds often dangerous mental illnesses and their symptoms. I think that the (mental and emotional) damage done by faith and faith based religions alone even without the actions of people - worsened by condoning, accepting, practicing, advocating for religion(s) - is extremely underestimated and shouldn't be addressed with a soft approach at all. I like it that Paul is patient and gentle, but Paul's kind character is most definitely not deserved by theists.

[@swolejeezy2603]

@@stylis666 I mostly agree with you (especially TheraminTrees, he does awesome content). I do think that Paul’s approach is mostly to reach out to theists. He mentioned once that he almost never swears or uses hyperbolic language because he doesn’t want to scare away believers

[@jamiehudson3661]

You are banking eternity on Paulogia - wow! 😆😆😆

[@HomiOmi92]

@@jamiehudson3661 no, I lost faith before I found out about Paulogia. I'm not into gambling or guessing.

[@malizolenjabulohabana7020]

"so all the sick people could touch common objects"... I'm dead, died of laughter. This is such a post 2020 joke.

[@patchwurk6652]

Lol, right? "Hey guys, let me just air out how much I Don't understand about disease to make this point."

[@AegixDrakan]

It was suuuuuuuch a good one. XD

[@julietfischer5056]

Terribly out of date common objects. Now we use phones or tablets to read.

[@JackgarPrime]

Dead of a communal disease

[@dda40x1]

How very fortunate that Mr. Strobel's god is exactly what he wants "him" to be.

[@MrRussiancoma]

Thanks Paul, you have played a big part of my de-conversion and I'm glad you still post! Also Sir, I don't know you or Viced Rhino, but I appreciate you looking out for that guy in his time if need. You embody what what most of us non-believers hold dear, life and family! Thank you from me and my family.

[@Paulogia]

Appreciated... thank you. Glad you found your way out.

[@LukeNAndo]

Good on you Stevie, I feel much the same way. Grateful for people like Paul!

[@jacketrussell]

They so desperately want their fairytale to be true, that they accept a different standard of evidence than they would need for any other story. It's sad to watch grown men argue about this stuff.

[@LukeNAndo]

A different standard of evidence for science too. They won’t accept evolution until we show them a Timelapse video showing a million years passing and an animal changing “kinds”. Until we have that kind of proof it’s just “a theory” according to them. They justify that which they already believe and reject at all costs anything that conflicts with it.

[@autobotstarscream765]

A different standard? Such a generous assumption that he doesn't use this standard of evidence for the rest of his life as well, including when he locks people away for the rest of their lives!

[@WayneRossi]

The weakest part of the Kalam analysis is the assumption that the cause of the universe must be “personal.” This is a huge and weird assumption, and relies upon a notion of personal causation in order to try to make sense of a timeless act of creation. However the notion of personal causation is not really coherent. It assumes that the causation of personal agents is fundamental different from anything else we see in the natural universe in some unspecified but important way. I think that is a huge but unnecessary assumption. It also doesn’t follow that whatever created our universe had the power to do anything else, or that it has any influence over the rest of the course of our universe. We don’t know anything about what’s outside. It’s also super weird to think that something that created the vastness of our universe also went in and tinkered with an individual human to make her pregnant. It’s much more likely that the woman got pregnant the usual way. Finally I think the whole notion of virginity is linked to the notion of women as property, and we should leave it behind. Saying this removed “original sin” is really a disgusting patriarchal assumption about women.

[@n0etic_f0x]

I have no idea how it is caring or smart. The universe is basically devoid of anything that can sustain life and a ton of Earth is also not habitable to human life. All land should be highly fertile and bring fruit and fresh water in abundance to the point that starvation and thirst are basically unheard of. But we have a ton of barren land and a planet covered in saltwater we can not drink and will drown in. How that is intelligently designed to care for humans is beyond me. If I flood your house and fill it with Tigers and venomous snakes I am hardly caring for you.

[@goldenalt3166]

@@n0etic_f0x "Caring" means making Christians feel special. It has nothing to do with crippling childhood disease or a universe hostile to life.

[@Angelmou]

@@n0etic_f0x This is very true: I usually make a comparison to actually created worlds like huge MMO RPGs where dozens of marketing experts and crafters are behind to enlarge even the addiction factor for common people of those created worlds, in which you don't need to eat or drink or breathe, but you can ride on dragons and unicorns and with specific implemented actually objective moral laws, like that you can't target town people with weapons, when you have an accident you just get resurrected at your last safepoint and when a huge crowd of beasts die they just respawn and can't go extinct with still thrilling quest lines etc. Imagine every time you use a knife for your bread it works but when you would either by accident or on purpose try to hurt another human it would transform into a harmless hologram or so. This is for human entertainment as it is created as human addicting place with all those little tricks. Alternatively when you would argue for a created world for life in general and not specifically humans - we could imagine an universe filled up with an organic ocean heated by some background radiation or whatever with lifeforms as big as planets swimming or moving around. The christian and also muslim arguments also do never make any sense for a whole different reason when you take a closer look at their core salvation promises: They basically also argue for a better designed place than the universe we know of known as paradise or heaven. While in some stories there can be war and seduction around the throne of heaven like with the Lucifer myth and other inconsistent nonsense. It is just self-betrayal from top to bottom.

[@n0etic_f0x]

@@goldenalt3166 how does that follow? God is special because he made a world that apparently opposes his own will. Kind of weird as it makes God look like an idiot.

[@goldenalt3166]

@@n0etic_f0x I find no evidence that these Christian claims of God's will are actually in the Bible. I think they just don't want to admit he's a monster.

[@soulcrewblue5608]

Strobel has not thought this through with honesty, integrity and scepticism, that sums up most if not all apologists.

[@c.e.harrison6798]

I totally acted surprised when I saw Mr Lacona talk! As if I had not seen it on Viced Rhinos channel, lol. You make me laugh so much sometimes...Thank you for all you do and the support you are providing for other humans in need. You are unaPaulagetically a Badass!

[@clintmcbride7830]

That pun was terrible........ I love it!!!!

[@atrahasis3899]

Despite having an older brother, I too was the product of an immaculate conception. My parents both showered beforehand

[@dnickarz]

I have to say, you're doing difficult and important work debunking these people. Thank you.

[@Iverath]

Lee Strobel is the guy that says/implies that he became a Christian *after* examining the evidence, when he actually became a Christian *before* that.

[@infamyguy3187]

Oldest sales trick in the book: "I used to hate [Category of products]! Then I tried [Insert product I'm trying to pawn off to you]! I couldn't believe it! Now my life makes perfect sense, and I'm here today to give you this amazing opportunity, too, so it can change you like it has me!" Christians have been using it since the days of Saul of Tarsus.

[@Templetonq]

People who knew him in high school say he was religious. Same with Mike Warnke.

[@Iverath]

@Religionisevil Yeah, I came to the same conclusion. With all those people he interviewed, he didn't ask any of the questions a critical thinker would.

[@joshleenall]

I'm convinced he realized how easy it was to make money off of Christians so he came up with this stupid idea of a series of books to create. I think he's a bad person.

[@pavld335]

@@joshleenall I do too. There's no way he believes half the shit he says.

[@jiubboatman9352]

The Lasso of truth comment made me choke on my digestive biscuit. Brilliant. Why are non of the gospels written closer to the events? I understand publishing and marketing, but modern politicians leave office and months later their memoirs are available.

[@oddjam]

Great video and series. You guys helping out with VicedRhino's channel is really clutch. Nice to see such a powerful show of solidarity in tough times.

[@Ardren]

4:22 - "First, it makes it possible for Jesus to be both fully god and fully man" - Wow! I'd like to hear his explanation of how that follows. I guess it means God has to follow rules too?

[@N1976DL]

I love how his witnesses to the resurrection are only characters from the Bible. No circular reasoning there! Great video as usual, Paulogia.

[@damianjonsson1688]

"Stuck to her story like no girl in history" 'Joseph... you ARE the father!'

[@stuartmcconnachie]

This is my case for Christmas…. 🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾

[@tetsujin_144]

My case for Christmas is full of presents for the kids. Christmas definitely happened in the past, and it'll happen again this year for sure!

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

I've been an atheist (agnostic) since my teens, but I'm not a mythicist. I was asked in a job interview once which historical figure I'd like to have lunch with. I was totally unprepared for the question but after a few seconds thought I said Jesus as well. Followed by by the caveat that it wasn't for religious or irrelgious reason, I'd just like to know what the heck really happened.

[@wingzero7316]

Did you get the job?

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

@WingZero No, I didn't. The interviewer did actually call me the next day and said they gave the job to someone who had more experience than I had. He went on to say that he never called back the people who didn't get the job personally, but he wanted to encourage me to reapply the next time an opening came up.

[@stefanowohsdioghasdhisdg4806]

plus if it turns out he's the real deal you can just order 5 loaves, 2 fish, and some water and have a *lovely* time

[@swolejeezy2603]

5:02 “The reports of the Virgin birth are quite early - in fact within the first generation of Christians” We went from mustard gas being considered the worst weapon imaginable to literal nukes within a generation, a lot can happen

[@SilverSixpence888]

Were they though? Paul doesn't mention it, and it's not until Mattew, 60 years later, we first hear of it. And he just got his translations wrong.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Funny how Biblical literalists don't read Isaiah literally when it says "young woman" but got translated as "virgin" when "pure/chaste woman" would have sufficed to get the point about ceremonial purity across; without the literally sexless immaculate spermless Dianic test tube clone Jurassic Park surrogate virgin birth out of an Ancient Aliens pizza dream, the Gospel is basically the Ramayana.

[@TheDanEdwards]

13:06 "our instantiation of space-time began to exist at the big-bang" - not really, but I understand why you might say that. Popular cosmology often presents ideas in ways that are for a broad audience but a great deal of simplification goes into such presentations. Regardless, I think we shouldn't reify any apologist's conceptions of what physics actually is as a discipline or ideas which are part of physical science. Modern cosmology is not a reason apologists believe what they do - they only throw out terms that seem to them to be science--y. The virgin birth myth is rooted in human psychology (and issues around sex no doubt.)

[@KaiHenningsen]

@Adam Cosper Personally, I'd say the assumption that the debate is settled. As far as I can tell, it isn't - at the big bang, both quantum physics and relativity are active in rather extreme areas, and we know they contradict each other then. That means we need to first come up with a better theory before we can even make solid guesses about what happened - and we're nowhere near such a theory. All we have is speculation. Speculation doesn't make for a scientific consensus.

[@KaiHenningsen]

He did say that our spacetime began at the Big Bang. That isn't settled, for the reasons I described. I hear similar from a lot of KZbinrs, and it bugs me every time. Let's not make the same mistakes as the apologists and assume we already know what we don't.

[@ottonormalverbrauch3794]

I find it incredible how anyone can speak about these supposed happenings with the certainty of a mechanic explaining how the inside of your combustion engine works.Then I remember the moment our daughter was almost duped by some mechanic into thinking that she needed an engine replacement ( when she didn't). They make stuff up or believe stuff that was made up earlier, apply little or no critical thinking and/or have malicious ulterior motives.

[@allenanderson4911]

To my knowledge the writers of the New Testament were reading the OT in Greek...in which case the text reads "a virgin shall give birth". In Hebrew it reads, "a young woman shall give birth". They felt they needed a Virgin birth to have Jesus conform to the misreading of the text. The two different genealogies tracing Jesus back to David (ironically, through Joseph) and the manufactured "census" which had Jesus born in Bethlehem, were also attempts to match OT predictions. They made up whatever was needed to have Jesus match the prophecies.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Chuck the asexual immaculate virgin Dianic spermless sexless test tube clone Jurassic Park Ancient Aliens surrogate birth in the trash and you'll see that the Gospel is the Ramayana; both Rama and Krishna, fully-human avatars of the pre-existing fully-god co-creator god Vishnu were born, not of literal virgins, but of pure women, which "virgin" in Isaiah can be read as culturally due to just being the word "young women" written in a context of purity and chastity that inspires people to read it as "virgin".

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Exactly! Which is why it’s so absolutely befuddling when a Christian testifies Their Jesus is Lord because of “fulfilled prophecies”. When you are actively attempting to manufacture a god with the source materials in front of you. That’s not a miracle. That’s forgery

[@tetsujin_144]

1:37 - "If Jesus were born of a virgin, that would be strong confirmation of his identity as a unique son of god" That or that Mary had some kind of really extraordinary mutation that allowed her to reproduce asexually, and produce a male offspring as a result. That would be pretty wild, almost incredible... But frankly still more believable than divine intervention. But I lean toward the simple answers. If Shmi Skywalker says Anakin had no father, then I figure either 1: She is speaking metaphorically, saying that there was a biological father but not one who stuck around to fill the role of a father... Much like someone disowning their child might say "I have no son!" or 2: she was drugged by someone and woke up pregnant. Kind of an unpleasant subject but it is a known, real phenomenon, and thus automatically more plausible than divine whatever.

[@SilverSixpence888]

She may have just sat on a-hem a dirty toilet seat.

[@robertadsett5273]

Or had a splash pregnancy

[@conanerisman6126]

Except in the Star Wars universe there is at least a mechanism that allows for one to arrange that sort of thing. Sure it would take a very fine level of control over said mechanic but it provides a viable explanation in this case.

[@Nocturnalux]

Sexual intercourse is not an absolute requirement for a woman to become pregnant; so long as the woman is fertile and there is a man who is also fertile to provide the semen then it's possible. These days, with in vitro fertilization, it wouldn't even be that difficult but even back then, a woman could insert semen inside her vagina so long as there was someone to provide it. Sure, the odds of it actually working are low for all sorts of reasons but if one is tenacious and tries it several times, it might very well work, eventually. Not saying that's what happened but the idea that "a virgin gave birth!" equaling a miracle is just a failure of the imagination. I

[@FrikInCasualMode]

@@Nocturnalux Or Mary just had a tryst on the side, got pregnant, in a panic lied to Joseph, and he decided to go with it instead of shattering his family and making him a laughing stock of the town. It's not like Mary would be a first woman in history that would insist she was impregnated by a divine being. Greek and Roman mythologies are rife with this bullshit.

[@jursamaj]

11:35 No. Parthenogenesis is known, even among mammals. Sure, we've never seen it in humans, and it seems unlikely, but by definition, more likely than a miracle. So no, virgin birth would not prove divine involvement. Strobel's entire "argument" here boils down to "If you believe in God, it all makes sense." In short, he's claiming 'internal consistency'. 2 problems: 1. The *whole* religion is far from internally consistent. 2. Even if it were internally consistent, that wouldn't make it true. It's possible to write internally consistent fiction.

[@antoniopannuti2088]

I don’t want to be “that guy”, but actually in a X Y chromosomal sex determination, parthenogenesis will generate females.

[@jursamaj]

@@antoniopannuti2088 True, altho there are syndromes that can give an XX individual male organs. This combined with parthenogenesis is even more improbable. But still more likely than a miracle.

[@kofw72]

Strobel should have just called this presentation “Proof of the Nativity: Speculation In, Speculation Out.”

[@Martial-Mat]

That statute of limitations is generally around 10 years because people's memories are not considered reliable after that. I recall an article taht suggested the more you "remember" a past event, the mre likely you are to start reconstructing it. Yet in an age before media or recording devices, we're expected to believe that 1-4 men, all of whom would have been elderly by then, each had perfect recall over 30+ years? Hmmm.

[@SilverSixpence888]

Oh no, god inspired them. Only he inspired them all differently. Maybe god has the recall problem.

[@kellydalstok8900]

My mother is convinced we visited Madame Tussauds on the day a candid camera program was filmed. We didn’t know she believed that until she told the story to someone thirty years later. We had to correct her, but she wasn’t convinced.

[@Martial-Mat]

@@SilverSixpence888 Well, he IS infinity years old - memory gets a bit dodgy at that age!

[@Martial-Mat]

@@kellydalstok8900 How were you certain that she was mistaken? But assuming she was, yes, it's dismaying how easily our memories can recast and reframe past events.

[@autonomouscollective2599]

Conduct this little experiment. Watch a movie for the first time, and then wait 3 months. “Remember” what your favorite scene in the movie was and then watch it again. You’d be surprised how it doesn’t go exactly how you remember. I could write a book on how often people (and myself) misremember movie scenes and TV episodes.

[@kermitthorson9719]

"if you want a ...virgin.... birth... you must first make the universe" Carl Sagan, he must have said those words in that order at some time in his life

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

I used to get so upset with people misquoting me by dropping a word here and there (like "no", "not", "never") and sometimes whole sentences to completely change what I said while using my own words. If their God or gods do exist I'd like to see a reaction to that behavior.

[@TaeyxBlack]

hardest working ellipses on the internet

[@Grim_Beard]

12:05 "Can you think of anything that began to exist that doesn't have a cause behind it?" Oh dear, Strobel - can _you_ give any examples of things that 'began to exist'? Because everything we have _ever_ observed has merely been a re-arrangement of matter and energy that _already_ existed. The Kalam fails at the first premise.

[@zemorph42]

Virtual particles. They begin to exist and are almost always immediately annihilated, and I haven't heard anything about a cause for their existence yet.

[@zemorph42]

To be fair I haven't been following the science on this very closely.

[@Grim_Beard]

That's the best answer I've had to this question so far. Normally people just give examples that aren't even examples (e.g. 'a car'), because they're just rearrangements of existing matter and energy. Aren't virtual particles hypothetical at this point, though? As far as I've been able to tell from my limited reading in the pop. science coverage (I'm a psychologist, not a physicist), they're basically a placeholder being used to plug a problem with current quantum theory (i.e. that it seems to break conservation of energy) and to explain some odd lab. effects. Edit to add: If virtual particles _do_ exist, that means the only example we have of something beginning to exist is something that appears _not_ to have a cause. Like the Kalamitous Comically-illogical 'argument' needs any more nails in its coffin!

[@zemorph42]

@@Grim_Beard PBS Spacetime is a great place to learn more about this and other exciting scientific research developments. It's a secondary source, but a good one, imo.

[@mattm8870]

The real weak point of the dumb augment is this either God requires a cause or things can exist without a cause.

[@trtlphnx]

Love Your Perspective, Paulogia ~ Long Time Listener, Big Time Fan ~

[@DutchJoan]

I wished I could sign up for BartMas through all my favourite KZbin channels. But alas, once is all I can do. Lee Strobel accentuates my need to be able to articulate why I think what I think at Christmas dinner.

[@jenna2431]

The only thing worse than Lee Strobel sitting there lying is the number of happy seals clapping and typing '"AMEN!"

[@gordonsirek9001]

At one time almost 100% of the population believed the earth was flat at the center of the universe with the sun, planets, and stars revolving around it. How did that work out?

[@drlegendre]

In fact, it worked just fine for a couple million years. It's only been about five centuries since flat Earth thinking became a real impediment to human progress.

[@monus782]

As I've said in many videos the main reason why I left Christianity was after realizing that Original Sin makes no sense in light from what we know from human evolution and Strobel just reminded me that another aspect that the theology falls apart is that without Original Sin this whole virgin birth thing becomes completely unnecessary, with the bonus that Catholics take that to its logical conclusion and say that Mary never had that to begin with (thus the infallible doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, as of writing this comment the patronal feast is today so it's funny I'm listening to this on that date) and thus the traditional theology surrounding Advent and Christmas breaks down as well, great video as always! Also, 14:30 Strobel again just shows to me that YECs are willing to cherry pick the science whenever it's convenient for their cause and the whole argument, at best, just shows the case for deism but not much else beyond that and definitely nowhere close to the traditional Christianity I used to follow. Speaking of that I'm still sympathetic to the deist worldview, as I followed it for a time, but your answer is what made me realize that I'm much more atheistic than I cared to admit (and this was recently and more than two years after I left the Church) and convinced me to just leave the God question to the realm of speculation for the time being.

[@thepurplebox380]

Strobel: The Gospels could not have been exaggerated in just 30 years. Me: Have you seen the people waiting for JFK Jr. to return 🤨? Are you seriously telling me that stories can't crop up in 30 years??

[@Thezuule1]

Wonder how long it took for Paul Bunyan to become as tall as a building?

[@Justas399]

Anyone who tries to deny the assassination of JFK would be refuted by the eyewitnesses.

[@Thezuule1]

@@Justas399 the witnesses lied. They were plants by the government. Tada! It's just that easy when you want to believe something. People legitimately thought the guy was going to show up at the rally so much so they even put pictures up of a guy in the crowd they believed was him in disguise.. People are bent..

[@martinmckee5333]

@@Thezuule1 Although, to be fair, people were waiting for JFK Jr. (who died in a plane accident), not his father JFK (who was assassinated). All your points stand just the same though.

[@Thezuule1]

@@martinmckee5333 I didn't even catch that or got Robert Kennedy confused in there or something. It was Jr in the OP and not in the response. But yeah, either way, these people will just drum up any excuse to brush away reality.

[@Ten80pete]

That's the stuff. I just needed my weekly fix of "Outraged Father" Paul saying "our particular instantiation of space-time". Nobody says it quite as perfectly as you Paul. It has become something of a "Words of Affirmation" thing for me. Thank you.

[@Kevin_Williamson]

The thing I noticed about Strobel's "Case for..." series was that he starts out with certain presuppositions already decided upon which to build his flimsy cases. I was curious so wasted money on his "Case for Christ" book. It was basically assuming the Bible accounts were true, then being awed and amazed at grossly superficial and poorly examined odds and ends presented as supporting evidence for the Bible. For example, "There's an empty tomb in the Holy Land. Therefore we know the resurrection story is true. Amazing!" No questions as to how anyone knows any of the supposed tombs were the right one. Or why there is more than one "tomb of Jesus" to visit in Israel. Or why assume there would even be an empty tomb to begin with when the entire resurrection story has problems (because the creation -- uhhhhh..."discovery" -- of an empty tomb was based on the notion the Bible was true to begin with). Strobel never addresses those issues in his (coughcough) hard-hitting investigation.

[@joshleenall]

Yeah Strobel's deal is basically "We know the bible is true because the bible says so!" Total garbage books that he's written.

[@SilverSixpence888]

@@joshleenall I wonder how many jobs he got fired from with his crap journalist skills...

[@joshleenall]

@@SilverSixpence888 I wish someone could fire him now. He spews stupidity nonstop.

[@swolejeezy2603]

My favorite part of “The Case For Christ” is when Strobel goes up to a Christian psychologist and asks “Was Jesus crazy?” Like let alone that it’s impossible to diagnose people who aren’t here to speak for themselves and lived millennia ago, what Christian would ever entertain the possibility that Jesus was insane, psychologist or not?

[@SilverSixpence888]

@@swolejeezy2603 But he got the answer he was looking for, so all good!

[@brunozeigerts6379]

Joseph: You're telling me... God made you pregnant. Mary: Yes... the Holy Spirit came into me. Joseph: Then why does Jesus look like Chad the Innkeeper?

[@SilverSixpence888]

Because Chad was made in the image of god.

[@imaginativeskydadytm1389]

@@SilverSixpence888 So god is Chad or Chad is god or Chad is Chad?

[@SilverSixpence888]

@@imaginativeskydadytm1389 Yes. And No. And it's all a mystery!!

[@PrometheanRising]

Gigachad the innkeeper, surely?

[@anonymousmouse4124]

Thank you, Paul for posting!

[@slevinchannel7589]

Hot Take: Atheist-KZbinrs and Socialism-KZbinrs are Siblings.

[@anonymousmouse4124]

@@slevinchannel7589 I'm not sure I understand your statement

[@hank_says_things]

Lee Strobel: I am a hard-hitting investigative reporter. I’m all about facts and evidence. Lee Strobel: if a god exists who can do literally anything, well OF COURSE he could make a god-baby with a human woman What’s the Hebrew for “underwhelmed”?

[@hitesh8383]

מפחיד

[@DrKippDavis]

@09:25 where does this idea that Matthew was a leader in the Jerusalem church come from? I honestly don't know.

[@DeludedOne]

There's no mention of Matthew apart from in the Gospels.

[@fred_derf]

Mr. Stenger asked Mr. Vilenkin the following question, "Does your theorem prove that the universe must have had a beginning?" Vilenkin replied, "No. But it proves that the expansion of the universe must have had a beginning. You can evade the theorem by postulating that the universe was contracting prior to some time.”

[@martingoodson1651]

I really wish people like Craig would stop dishonestly quoting Vilenkin and Guth. WLC : And Vilenkin-Guth demonstrates that the Universe is not infinite, therefore God Vilenkin: LOL, no. I never said anything about the Universe being created by God. Guth: And I'm actually into inflation theory ... WLC: See? Totally proves the Kalam ...

[@fred_derf]

@@martingoodson1651 If Craig stopped dishonestly quoting people, he'd have to stop quoting people entirely.

[@thegoodmanrot1460]

So that’s the reason every time i was at the doctors office I would pick up the blog books and whisper “common object.”. Awesome.

[@Valdagast]

I would probably want to interview Aristotle. Bonus points if I can show him everything we have discovered since his time.

[@PrometheanRising]

He'd be thrilled to learn of the discoveries.

[@helenaconstantine]

I visited a shrine one that had a portrait of Mary painted in a style that suggested it was painted in Poland or Russia in the 17th century. There was a nun there, however, that explained that that very painting had been painted by Luke from life in the 40s or 50s (although the girl shown in the painting looked 14 or 15). You can't argue against that.

[@MrCyclist]

I bet she looked Polish and not semitic.

[@kamion53]

Was this the "original painting" by Luke? or a copy of a copy of what is considered to be a relict as holy as pieces of the true cross ( of which there excists more then maserial needed to build a decent Amish barn)

[@dave3657]

My pastors daughter was a virgin when she was married my pastor once said. But she and I knew different, now he’s gone and never knew. 😁

[@mr.mcbeavy1443]

Can anyone explain why the graphic of the big bang/universe at 16:02 is not spherical. Why wouldn't the "expansion" be spherical? Like when a bomb goes off and "expands" in all directions? This tubular image makes little sense to me.

[@michaelsommers2356]

Isn't it odd that the earliest gospel, Mark, never mentions a virgin birth. Even Mary seems to have forgotten all about it.

[@PiRobot314]

Great video Paul! "Fake news can arise and take hold very quickly" I would love to see a video just about that (looking at some examples of fake news, how quickly they emerged, how to refute them, etc.)

[@jaggerjards7236]

I can't stop howling - "so all the sick people could touch common objects" - that is hilarious!!!!

[@timberry4709]

It's called "job security".

[@flowingafterglow629]

19:50 Ir's not even "having a conclusion and looking for evidence" It's "having a conclusion and then deciding that it is possible and therefore it is, despite there not being any evidence"

[@SilverSixpence888]

Yes!

[@0nlyThis]

A properly designed universe should not require the continual "fine tuning" we call Miracles.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Kalam, question begging and presuppositions! Quite the trio of Christmas gifts 😁

[@azulaspencer]

a caring and personal creator? imma have to call bs on that one Lee; the genocides, laws on the price of one's daughter and 'proper' treatment of slaves, among other morally sickening content in levitation law preclude that assertion.

[@tetsujin_144]

7:47 - "The material that's unique to Luke may have come from Joana, or Susannah" Or banana fo-fanna

[@kamion53]

oh yeah this Joanna that could be the same as Junia, a woman with an Aramaic/Hebrew name could be the same as a woman with a fullly Roman name? they didn't sound the same or even mean the same thing Joanna יוֹחָנָה‎, romanized: Yôḥānāh, lit. 'God is gracious' Junia, meaning woman from the gens Junia, like Julia as daughter of Gaius Julius Caesar was, woman from the gens Julia.

[@autonomouscollective2599]

Ha ha! Somebody here remembers “The Name Game.”

[@aprilwilliams8073]

There are always massive "IF"s to leap over before we're able to begin assuming the god of the Bible is kicking around. Happy Solstice Paulogia! Axial tilt is definitely the reason for the season 🌍🌎🌏

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Truth

[@davidhoffman6980]

Paul you missed an important detail that Lee Strobel-along with many other apologists-made up: Strobel and company claim (counter to the gospels) that there were eyewitnesses to the resurrection. According to the gospels, there were no eyewitnesses. It allegedly happened at or before dawn before the women who came to dress the body got there.

[@germanvisitor2]

I bet Strobel is the go-to for sales agent trainees. He does not ask any hard questions and buys every argument.

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

Thanks for the video :)

[@grapeshot]

There was a rumor that went around that said Jesus was actually the son of a Roman soldier by the name of Panthera. And in a Roman Cemetery in Germany they found the grave of a Syrian auxiliary soldier by that name, not saying that is Jesus father. I'm just saying the name apparently was common. At least in what is now known as the Middle East.

[@lnsflare1]

Everyone knows that Jesus' real dad was Biggus Dickus.

[@streetsdisciple0014]

@@lnsflare1 Monty Gold!

[@FakingANerve]

@@lnsflare1 I love this not only because it reminds me of a hilarious scene, but also because in the bible story, his dad really _was_ a Biggus Dickus! 😄

[@usmagrad87]

@@FakingANerve One could almost claim his “father’s” length is infinite. If you know what I mean.

[@Thezuule1]

@@lnsflare1 He has a wife, you know. You know what she's called....? She's called incontinentia, Incontinentia Buttocks.

[@bethesong2001]

Another great video!

[@Devious_Dave]

Strobel would never say "with magic, all things are possible" but isn't that what he really means?

[@sbushido5547]

Nah, "magic" is different than "miracles"...because reasons.

[@-JA-]

Thank you. 👍

[@sbushido5547]

"If you assume it's true, it's totally true!" Man, I wonder what it was like living in a time when these were profound revelations. Probably wouldn't have been very pleasant, what with the lack of a basic understanding of medicine and...plumbing.

[@louiejc]

Citing 'someone once' will win you a lot of debates on the playground in elementary school.

[@Tronnyverse]

12:00 "Can you think of anything that began to exist that doesn't have a cause behind it?" Me: God? 🤔 Christian Journalist: NO! Me: 😳 Hold up, what?

[@grayintheuk8021]

Just excellent work :)

[@damianwhite504]

I am waiting for mister Lee's final video called the Case for Cash

[@LordSlag]

Happy Solstice!

[@BruceCarroll]

JESUS: Dad, where did I come from? JOSEPH: (considering the awkwardness of explaining sexual reproduction to his young child) God sent you to us. And that's all it takes to get a virgin birth narrative started.

[@bananaslug.1951]

PS great video and great commentary

[@foppishdilletaunt9911]

Brilliant opening bit about those “magazine” things. I bet that there were people called “journalists” that were somehow involved and something tells me that some of the investigatorial “journalists” didn’t buy in to this “Xianity” bunkum.

[@KaiHenningsen]

There might have been a slight hitch with that, yes.

[@fmcevoy1]

The Matthew-from-Joseph's perspective is a new one!

[@MasamiPhoenix]

Even the qualifier that the cause of our localized space-time is powerful is questionable. A tiny rock or even a soundwave can create a chain reaction that results in an avalanche. Similarly an insignificant cause could have created a chain reaction resulting in our universe.

[@reubenmanzo2054]

15:00 I thought assuming your conclusion was circular reasoning. Because circular reasoning is when the conclusion you're trying to prove is included in the logic behind your argument.

[@scienceexplains302]

If an intelligent, powerful agent can exist without a cause, then all the more can a simple, lifeless singularity or some such.

[@iamnoone9041]

Did he really just say that "Luke" may have interviewed Mary or her friends before writing his gospel? Seriously? These people are truly delusional!

[@freddan6fly]

FFS Paul. 0:25 "Magazine were like blogs, but they printed them on paper and sent them to medical waiting room". Now I have a mix of meat, sauce and wine all over my keyboard. I was laughing out loud all of my evening meal at this. Edit: 12:20 A great rebuttal to the Kalam Cosmological Fallacy is that it is not compatible with quantum physics. Since the universe most probably started as a quantum system, no cause is needed, since causality is not applicable to quantum system.

[@Oswlek]

How does a birth of any kind make it possible to overcome a logical contradiction like "fully X" and "fully something other than X"? And how does a virgin birth avoid original sin? Doesn't Mary's humanness make he a carrier of OS? Or is it passed down only on the man's side? How does this work, exactly? Even Strobel's throwaway lines raise so many questions.

[@stefanowohsdioghasdhisdg4806]

Well Mary didn't have Original Sin because of a previous miracle where God blessed her conception which made her immune to it. It's in the proto gospel of James. So clearly someone tried to address that problem, but it didn't make it into the Bible, so therefore it isn't True (TM)

[@tetsujin_144]

18:07 - "If a god created the universe, then impregnating a woman would be trivial for such a being" I mean... human men do it quite regularly. Certainly if nothing else god could conjure up a turkey baster and find some donors if he is not adequately equipped himself.

[@KaiHenningsen]

As for Vilenkin and the beginning of the universe, I remember a certain debate between WLC and Sean Carrol, where WLC brought this argument, and (if I recall correctly) SC brought a short video from Vilenkin.

[@TaeyxBlack]

he did. the video was of vilenkin specifying that his theorem proved *expansion* of the universe began 13.whatever billion years ago, not the universe itself

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@TaeyxBlack Indeed.

[@kcleung7243]

"If a god created the universe from scratch, then impregnating a woman would be trivial for such a being." Err... No? Why would you think that the capability of creating a very massive and complicated thing (initial state of our universe) from "n/a" will include the ability to create a small "magical" thing (the magic sperm) from inside said thing? If you can't propose how any of these work with some semblence of any mechanisms, a magic power does not translate to another magic power. Being the best magician does not mean you know all magic tricks known to men.

[@physnoct]

Atheist here. "Why would you think that the capability of creating a very massive and complicated thing (initial state of our universe) from "n/a"" There may be a difference between "creating a very massive and complicated thing (initial state of our universe)" and "... created the universe form scratch". If a god created the universe and all the "creatures" as claimed in the bible, he can create cells and thus sperm to fertilize the egg. "If you can't propose how any of these work with some semblance of any mechanisms," The only explanation is that god would be omnipotent. "a magic power does not translate to another magic power. Being the best magician does not mean you know all magic tricks known to men." Right, but the argument talks about an omniscient and omnipotent god. So that changes the rules a bit.

[@kcleung7243]

@@physnoct Property "omnipotent" is ill defined at best in pure logical discussion, and nonsense in reality. If you are assuming an omnipotent being so that rules don't apply in regards of its ability, then creating the universe is as difficult (or trivial) as creating the magic sperm to it. But, why do you assume an omnipotent being when all you need is a cause for the universe, which a universe farting fairy would suffice?

[@Alexander-the-Mediocre]

To be fair Vilenkin when talking about a cause is talking about cosmos so while lee is a bit mixed up he is quoting Vilenkin in context so I think he means to use the kalam with cosmos throughout.

[@mrmaat]

JK Rowling may have interviewed Albus Severus Potter for information about Harry in her totally historical Harry Potter book series. Tolkien may have interviewed Daisy Gardner-Gamgee for details about how Gandalf appeared after his resurrection.

[@8114梦见]

I guess we’ll never know, since we weren’t there. What a shame.

[@kamion53]

I think there a quite a few die-hard fans out there, who really believe JKR wrote a real historical story disguised as a novel.

[@SilverSixpence888]

@@kamion53 I've seen all 8 documentaries on him, which is proof of his existence.

[@kamion53]

@@SilverSixpence888 I did also watch those and I noticed some differences between the documenteries and the reports, now we can split hairs and fight to the death about what is most accurate. We can also call jihad against the heretics and unbelievers. but not today, got some laundery and dishes to do.

[@SilverSixpence888]

@@kamion53 The differences are there to show you it's all true!

[@Nirakolov]

12:00 ish - I propose that caused things can be uncaused via a process of gradualization; for example - Languages. Nothing 'caused' the English language, and yet it exists.

[@thomasperri5316]

Virgin births are reported by religions all over the world. I guess they're so common, they must all be true.

[@drlegendre]

I'm not sure how common virgin births have been, but tales of antiquity are full of all manner of odd and auspicious births and conceptions.

[@bskec2177]

Wow, all the footage was a complete surprise to me.

[@angrydoggy9170]

My daughter asked me just this week about her conception. She knows the basics about how babies are made, but she wanted to know the exact moment and modus operandi. I simply told her I couldn’t tell exactly when and how. I even added (jokingly) that without a DNA test it’s not even 100% sure I’m the biological father.

[@kellydalstok8900]

Harsh

[@glenecollins]

I really don’t understand how something could cause time to begin. As far as we know causing time is as coherent as creating a married Batchelor or making a rock which can’t be moved by an omnipotent being.

[@AarmOZ84]

Wait! Wait! Wait! Are you saying that two contradictory accounts of the virgin birth of Jesus are also historically bogus?!?!

[@RoburDrake]

If a virgin birth is necessary to be born without "original sin," how does that allow Mary's "immaculate conception?" Original Sin is one of the most evil of gaslighting concepts IMHO.

[@physnoct]

"If a virgin birth is necessary to be born without "original sin," how does that allow Mary's "immaculate conception?"" One can suppose that the original sin is transmitted through the Y chromosome, but chromosome 2 tells quite another story.

[@sussekind9717]

Wow! Talk about defining your god into existence. I love how he jumps from something, to He, to the god of The Bible, without putting forth a single lick of evidence or any kind of explanation at all. Somebody needs to tell Lee, that when you play connect the dots, you have to stay on the same page.

[@d.o.m.494]

For such important person there's lots of possibles, maybes, could haves and other vague guesses.

[@Your_local_therian_weirdo]

I've heard the theory that matter (or the ingredients for it) have always existed, what actually happened 13 billion years ago was that TIME began. I've also heard a theory that our universe keeps expanding and deflating and like a balloon, it can get a little bit bigger each time, not sure why but I really liked that one, it fired my imagination but there is NO wonder and awe in life without god 🙄

[@Thezuule1]

The one thing I've never witnessed in the Universe is nothing. Absolute nothing. Suppose I have no reason to even acknowledge that nothing "exists" if that even makes sense.

[@ObservantHistorian]

"...there is NO wonder and awe in life without god." That's a statement of the limits of your sense of wonder, nothing more.

[@histreeonics7770]

I have a lot of wonder and awe, although less of it the more science that I learn. That you lack adequate imagination to feel wonder and awe is a personal limitation of yours. It shows you presume you are the most able imaginator possible, which is a kind of imagination that is extremely and detrimentally common in creationists.

[@ObservantHistorian]

@@histreeonics7770 Unless I misunderstood, you said, "...there is NO wonder and awe in life without god." Is the belief in a god concept that never was true THE prerequisite to having a sense of wonder and awe? Is that the only lens through which you believe wonder and awe can be experienced?

[@originalhazelgreene]

I never see links in the corner of your videos anymore. Even when you mention them. What did I screw up Whoa...at around 12:00 one showed up. Add "intermittent" to the symptoms

[@eugenebraig413]

I'd like to introduce Mr. Strobel to parthenogenetic cladocerans, decapods, lizards, etc., evidently millions of which are unique daughters of god. And original sin evidently isn't carried on mitochondria. And damn! Now watching the whole, you beat me to the decapods.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

The California Condors are Undergoing Parthenogenesis too now! Proof that even large highly complex long lived creatures can give virgin birth!