Lee Strobel's Case for Christmas (response)

[@Paulogia]

Yes, I know it's early November... but there are four parts to this thing to get done before Christmas. Sorry. Ho ho ho! 🎄

[@joshuadunford3171]

To be fair, my local grocery store put up the Christmas decorations and started Christmas shopping on Halloween day.

[@TheN00bmonster]

I heard that "sorry" from Paul in my head lol. No need to apologize, we're all dedicated soldiers in the war on Christmas. Oops, I mean xmas.

[@riggysamasan]

Looking forward to parts 2,3 and 4 Saulogia!

[@LcdDrmr]

Someone in comments suggested you should animate this short 3 minute video (/watch?v=1E5GpP5wtjk) in which WLC argues the Adam and Eve story is 'too fantastic' to be believed.

[@mattbritton6222]

Forgiven. I’m seeing Hallowe’en decorations blending with Christmas here in Sydney Australia. But, we are a lazy nation, so there’s that.

[@starrystarrynight52]

"And now we know that Lee Strobel is a super-skeptic. Not afraid to take on the details of Christian tradition no matter how inconsequential". I had to pause the video for a full five minutes I was laughing so hard.

[@joe19912]

I started lolling at "kicking over mangers in the war on Xmas!" Paulogia is on fire this week. 😂

[@Transblucency]

Ah yes, The fiery Lee Strobel. To paraphrase: Sure, his apologetic seemed to be cast iron at the first glance, but I wasn't going to let William Lane Craig off the hook so easily. As a former investigative reporter on the Chicago Daily Bean, I knew how a single, incisive question could collapse even the toughest argument. Drawing on my 25 years of experience as an atheist reporter working the mean streets of Chicago, I saw my opportunity. Wheeling on the defenseless old man, my voice rising in outrage, I snarled: "I can think of no other explanation for these so-called miracles of Jesus, other than the work of some supernatural power. Can you?"

[@DeconvertedMan]

As a mega-super-skeptic I take issue with the name Lee and skeptic being in the same room.

[@tedferkin]

Wonderfully super-skeptic. To paraphrase: "Lee cannot think of any other explanation of why these unsubstantiated fairy stories came about. So they must be based on a true story" I'm just stunned by the level of journalistic analysis. Is this why he stopped being a journalist or is this the general quality of top level journalism? Either way I'm worried.

[@HarderTime89]

For real.

[@jonnekallu1627]

18:31 Paris exists. Therefore the Davinci Code is factual history.

[@stueyapstuey4235]

And the potatoes... both of them!

[@david2869]

and Lady Bug and Chat Noir are real teenage superheroes!

[@judyfrancis4515]

Wait -- did someone say it WASN'T?!?

[@isaacleillhikar4566]

That part isnt supposed to be. The stuff Dan Brown tries to sneek into being real history are events no one in the 2000s witnessed or know about the historical backing.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Hattori Hanzo is recorded in history, so praise Scorpion who died and rose again!

[@moodyrick8503]

"Legends" do not take "generations" to become established. Just look at Joseph Smith. (Mormon founder) His stories became accepted within a single generation.

[@moodyrick8503]

@@reluctantheist5224 Thanks for catching my mistake. Much appreciated.

[@pauligrossinoz]

Just look at the awesomely _stupid_ legends about Donald Tump that are already believed today, and Trump isn't even dead yet! 🤣 There is a truism that states that a lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on.

[@moodyrick8503]

@@pauligrossinoz Yes indeed. Once they accept that _"Gods divine magic"_ is a real thing, it opens the door to all kinds of crazy impossible things. That's why the majority of Trump followers are highly religious.

[@MrCmon113]

People worshipped Prince Phillipp while he was still alive and not even actively pretending to be a god or demigod or whatever.

[@jaclo3112]

The legend of JFK Junior happened in less than a generation. Apparently he is going to run as VP with Trump at the next election.

[@Beacon80]

He goes on about the more accurate translation of "inn", but he ignores that the word translated as "virgin" just meant "young woman"

[@eugeneoisten9409]

Well given he completely ignores the absurdity of the census part of the story. Are you really surprised?

[@Beacon80]

@@eugeneoisten9409 Surprised? No. Disappointed? Also no.

[@eugeneoisten9409]

@@Beacon80 ....lol

[@paultidwell7544]

@@eugeneoisten9409 Can you imagine trying to manage this in ancient times, everyone go back to your ancestral home to be counted. Which defeats the purpose of a census in the first place, counting people where they currently live. Which was hard enough to do back then.

[@nemdenemam9753]

or the fact that according to Matthew they ran to Egypt from Herod (supported by prophecies) while according to Luke they spent the required cleansing time in Betlehem went to Jerusalem then went home. One of them is clearly wrong/lying.

[@moodyrick8503]

*Religion;* _"Everyone speaking for God_ _while God stays silent"_

[@rickwilliams7431]

This is why there are thousands of Christian denominations & religions.

[@kiabvaj5656]

Because God is deaf, dumb and blind.

[@kiabvaj5656]

@Logical Musicman Same as " God is outside of space and time. "

[@kiabvaj5656]

@Logical Musicman Amen 🙏

[@stueyapstuey4235]

Spoiler alert - 'Cos there is no god...

[@lalomunoz16]

The sarcasm is heavy with this one. Perfect.

[@davidgriffin9247]

I love a heavy dose of sarcasm to dilute down the Xmas lies, like salted caramel lol

[@lnsflare1]

He debunked the innkeeper while holding up the much more insane nationwide census that required everyone to go back to the hometowns of their ancestors despite the fact that that would completely destroy their economy.

[@stevewebber707]

Well, he can't well step on toes by admitting actually consequential problems now can he? It's almost like he's deliberately using manipulative techniques isn't it?

[@proculusjulius7035]

I was actually scrolling down looking for someone who's pointed this out. Also, did herod actually order babies killed?

[@lnsflare1]

@@proculusjulius7035 Not according to any extra-biblical sources, or in the biblical timeline with this impossible census.

[@proculusjulius7035]

@@lnsflare1 then why must they insist on it being historical? If it didn't happen then it's false historical information.

[@lnsflare1]

@@proculusjulius7035 Because feeding the majority's persecution complex is very profitable.

[@Rhynri]

“Legends take a long time.” We have people disagreeing on what happened earlier this year…. And we have video.

[@imjessietr29]

Exactly.

[@ghostreyn]

His books actually helped me reject Christianity and become an atheist. So this is my thank you, Thank you Lee Strobel for writing those books, I was finally to see that Christianity has no real answers but can spin any thing in to "God did it" so thank you for helping me see the light.

[@B.S._Lewis]

That must have been fun setting up that detective scene with all the Christmas cards with push pins and yarn connecting them. Epic.

[@kai_plays_khomus]

Brilliant nickname - love it! 👌

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@kai_plays_khomus If that makes you giggle, my channel might entice you to chuckle... Hint hint.

[@kai_plays_khomus]

@@B.S._Lewis I'm in! 😁

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@kai_plays_khomus Welcome to my insanity. Don't get comfortable or you might never leave.

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@B.S. Lewis I used to read your books in your former incarnation. B.S. big improvement over C.S. 😇

[@moodyrick8503]

Why would the Christian God require _"faith as a foundation for belief",_ when he would have known that *believing things on "faith" would lead billions to fall for false religions?*

[@rickwilliams7431]

"Faith" is the excuse offered when they don't have a good reason. Because if they did, faith would not be required.

[@moonshoes11]

Hello Grampa Rick

[@inefffable]

Because the Christian God loves burning flesh, and wanted the majority of his creation to burn for all eternity. Mmm, that sweet, supple smell.

[@aaronbredon2948]

@@inefffable said god even states that he is the source of all evil and that he is a wrathful, jealous god.

[@moodyrick8503]

A big _Wubba lubba dub dub_ to you, Moon Shoes.

[@arthurmorgan1550]

Paulogia dropped a new video so you know it’s gonna be a good day

[@Pit.Gutzmann]

_"Legends take a long time to arise..."_ *"I had the biggest inauguration crowd any president ever had!"*

[@stubdo16]

Yes, good point and agree. I used to attend a weekly gathering. After several years a new convener started reading a new format sheet they had downloaded from the internet. The sheet said 'it is a tradition at this meeting for us all to introduce ourselves by name at the start'. We'd never done this in all the years before but it wasn't worth questioning at the time and seemed a pretty good idea. Membership changed over the weeks. The convener left and the new membership was adamant that we had to keep the name introductions as they had always been an integral tradition of the meeting - it said so on the sheet!

[@NotSomeone68]

@@stubdo16 So which AA meeting was this?

[@sciencegonebad]

One small problem here Legends are usually rooted in fact somewhere 🤣 Now myths ... can be pure fantasy

[@thejudgmentalcat]

Salty Paulogia is just what I needed this morning 🌄

[@hatuletoh]

"So...what have we learned so far?" Well, I've learned--again--that christian apologists cling to the flimsiest of proofs, misrepresent arguments of scholars, accept low-quality evidence they'd laughing reject from any other religious tradition, and as always, wallow in confirmation bias by presuming the conclusion and working backwards to cherry pick anything that they think strengthens their case. Oh, and I've also learned--again--that christian apologetics is likely a very profitable business, which always make me sad to consider. Because I would love to have no scruples so I could exploit the hell out of that market.

[@Oswlek]

What a coincidence! I learned the same thing!

[@Uhdksurvhunter]

I've genuinely had that thought myself. Amazing how easy to argue for the existence of your specific god. Just reference the book and exclaim how great and good your god is. How it convinces anyone is beyond me though.

[@shriggs55]

well said.

[@Irisarc1]

Amazing how so many of us learned the exact same lessons even though they were the exact opposite of what Strobel wanted us to learn. Hmm...🤔

[@VaughanMcCue]

@@Oswlek It is a sign . 🚏

[@andybrace9225]

Please all remember that millions of elf's have died in the war on Xmas

[@tetsujin_144]

Poor Deedlit, so sad!

[@ramigilneas9274]

F

[@Webshooters1]

Rodolph visits their graves every Christmas.

[@LDrosophila]

F

[@lnsflare1]

Hopefully, they'll eventually defeat XMas and win their freedom.

[@ericmishima]

Just what I needed this minute.

[@brucebaker810]

The Case For the Algorithm.

[@scottduke]

I haven't had a chance to listen to this yet, but I wanted to say "Great video, @Paulogia!" I have THAT much confidence in your content.

[@Paulogia]

Wow, thank you!

[@scottduke]

@@Paulogia ANNNND . . . you did not disappoint!

[@gregorywilliams5105]

Absolutely!

[@lizhughes2852]

😄

[@DaveCM]

I was a Christian when I was a teenager but I always had trouble believing that a government would have people travel to their birth place for a census. It makes no sense at all and wouldn't provide an accurate count.

[@grapeshot]

Yep considering we have no record of the Romans ever conducting a census like that.

[@johnpoole3871]

And the fact that Nazareth was in Galilee, a different kingdom...

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@David Mansfield Just go to the other story: no need to travel. Jesus is born in Bethlehem of Judea because Mary and Joseph live there; they have a house in Bethlehem.

[@johnpoole3871]

@@bertrandrussell7138 Which is fine but both stories cannot be true. Of course then we have to accept an otherwise unmentioned massacre of baby boys and the fact the Astrology might work.

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@John Poole You and I completely agree. I don't believe Matthew's birth narrative any more than I believe Luke's story. If, however, one wants an option to Luke, the New Testament provides one, one that avoids the problems of Luke; but, then, as you point out, produces a different set of difficulties. Neither story is credible. And, as you've observed, they are incompatible.

[@sonnywilliams9610]

Ah yes, I remember one of the last straws for my deconversion was the fact that there was never even an inn-keeper...

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@SonnyWilliam Ah yes, let's keep the sarcasm rolling! 😇

[@flowingafterglow629]

I am boggled by Strobel's interpretation of Luke's story of "no room at the inn." Super skeptic goes on to the translation of inn vs guest room, but takes it completely that Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem to "register for the census"? What census? And why would they go to Bethlehem? To register?

[@ReaLMoisan]

Yeah, most scholars agree Luke was wrong about this.

[@hmneill]

He does this to give credence to his skepticism. Be skeptical about a minor detail so people trust your scholarship: It is a manipulation.

[@proculusjulius7035]

@@ReaLMoisan what about herod the baby slayer? Did that happen?

[@rickschofield3131]

Because scriptures say the Nazarene was born in Bethlehem. They had to come up with a reason to go there- thank you hindsight say all apologetics

[@mitchellminer9597]

Yeah, right, the Romans conducted a census that required that everyone go back to the town of their ancestors to register. I mean, the Romans may have wanted to annoy the Judeans, but as a census method, it's inefficient.

[@JayMaverick]

Lee Strobel is such a wonderful example of the Pinecreek theorem in action.

[@ethan4048]

@Marshal Marrs if your wife/girlfriend converts you will convert too

[@childofgod2471]

This is why I’m glad my gf is just as much a skeptic as I am.

[@proculusjulius7035]

@Marshal Marrs basically, when your woman denies you into submission.

[@emmanuelpiscicelli6232]

@Marshal Marrs Red Sonja❗❗❗

[@marccolten9801]

@@ethan4048 I’ve seen converts that went though this in their books. I just never knew it had a name

[@moodyrick8503]

_"Evil succeeds when good men do nothing"._ _"Satan succeeds when God does nothing"._ *(Actually, he did do something, he opened the door & let Satan in)*

[@hegyak]

At least Satan didn't demand genocide or promote slavery. That, was all on God.

[@oscargordon]

@@hegyak Didn't ever lie either.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@oscargordon , Well... all villains are the heroes of their own story... too bad, unlike most villains, god has employed billions of people in his PR department...

[@mikehunntt5338]

You have to exist before you can do anything loo

[@theother1281]

So the second statement is imaginary being A succeeds when imaginary creature B does nothing. Therefore equivalent to: Zeus succeeds when Osiris does nothing; The Minotaur succeeds when The Kraken does nothing; Hypogriffs succeed when Sphinx do nothing; or Miss Faversham succeeds when Pip does nothing.

[@utubepunk]

Last time I was this early, women were being embarrassed for discovering an empty tomb.

[@Paulogia]

😂

[@lnsflare1]

The Criterion of Embarrassment also suggests that if Jesus were made up, they would have had Joseph give birth to him instead of an untrustworthy woman. Although... that *would* explain why there is so much importance given to the geneology of Joseph even though he wouldn't have been Jesus' biological father under the Virgin Birth narrative...

[@Paulogia]

@@lnsflare1 May I steal that?

[@lnsflare1]

@@PaulogiaI would be glad to donate it to you.

[@utubepunk]

@@lnsflare1 NICE.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

I didn't expect Lee to contradict himself quite so many times in one short video!

[@tallman2210]

Claiming to be a "skeptic" who believed that the gospels were an accurate biography of a demigod shows how little attention he actually pays to details.

[@timeshark8727]

Which Christmas story is Lee trying to say is correct? Aren't there 2 versions in the bible?

[@andybrace9225]

Yup and none say what date it happened but was not in the winter as shepherds are not tending their flocks on the Judaean hills in winter as it's too cold.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

I think it's more like three, and none comport with the old testaments messiah being a literal king...

[@childofgod2471]

@@Bob-of-Zoid but but but..that was just a metaphor, you can’t take it to mean a literal king... lol

[@MarkSheeres]

Once you see that the two birth narratives don’t mesh together, it’s the most obvious thing in the world, and you can’t unsee it. But I don’t suppose Strobel will mention anything about that…

[@mikehunntt5338]

More like 2,000 versions of the bibull lol

[@joshuadunford3171]

I’m not an atheist and I don’t see eye to eye with you all the time, but I do love the work you put into your videos. You are definitely one of the best atheist thinkers/ counter apologist of our time. Keep up the good work

[@Paulogia]

Thank you

[@xipheonj]

My "favourite" part of all of these apologetics videos is the long boring explanations of mundane details, most of which we can agree with, then the radical leap to "therefore the bible is infallible and God is real." Whiplash, every time.

[@daskipper]

This is absolutely dripping with contempt (for Paul), I love it.

[@donneuner2883]

You’re a great teacher! Thanks for all you do!

[@alpha.beta.2219]

@5:30 "I started out as a skeptic..." Implying he is no longer a skeptic. Isn't "gullible" the opposite of skeptical?

[@shawnnelson1669]

If someone has already pointed this out, sorry for the rehash. At 22:20 Lee claims that the reason Mark doesn't cover the early years of the life of jesus, was that he made a literary choice as to what to write. I was always told that the authors of the bible were inspired by god. You can't have it both ways kiddos.

[@sageohio1864]

the whole moving an entire nation to their ancestral "home" makes no sense and would have caused pure chaos for not only for counting but drive the economy to total devastation

[@frankwhelan1715]

And they had to do it on the back of an ass,even pregnant women

[@brunozeigerts6379]

Would have been great for someone from Parthia... a country not under Roman control. 'Yeah... get to go home on vacation and not pay taxes!'

[@TorianTammas]

The moving to Bethlehem was necessary for connecting the story elements to king David. The first census took place in 6AD and their is no sign anyone moved anywhere.

[@JosephKano]

This. It's an obvious fictitious device.

[@DutchJoan]

You've started your decorating nice and early. It puts me in a festive mood, exactly right to tackle the war on Christmas. I'm not convinced yet of the virgin birth. I recognise it as a literary motif to indicate someone special is born, though. And whether Jesus was actually special doesn't really matter, some people simply believed he was. Much like certain reincarnations of well loved lamas. That's why I still like nativity scenes and enactments of the birth story.

[@publiusii4246]

Can we talk about how in less than one generation there has been legendary development on an assertion that it takes 2 generations for legends to develop. Cuz that's just 👌

[@russellcohen640]

wait....the KJV is subsequent to the NIV? WOW! I totally had my history messed up. I had this ludicrous notion that the KJV was from 1611 and the NIV was 1973. How crazy of me! Thanks Lee Strobel.

[@johnwalker1058]

Either that was a simple gaff, or he may be going by the logic that it is the "one true interpretation" that actually stays true to what they interpret as what God actually said or what Jesus himself would have taught or endorsed. Every sect and denomination of Christianity, particularly in protestant Christianity, believes they are the ones to be returning to the original, true form, while all others have strayed away in some way, some perhaps farther than others, but all having departed from the true, original form. So for them, whatever translation they adopt, despite how recent its advent in history may be, believe that since it is a return to the original, it is not a new version, the rather it is the "first," "original" version brought back and revived, returning to that time. So it could be that if the NIV is what Strobel follows, he might believe something along the lines that while the version was translated and disseminated in 1973, it is simply a return of the original 2,000 year old original teachings of Christ, his most devoted followers, and Paul, and even centuries older writings of the prophets and other figures before them that make up the old testament portion of their holy book. (Yes, this doesn't hold because the entire bible wasn't produced and published at one time or place. Indeed it was produced over centuries of separate writings about religious topics loosely associated together by geographically close regions and cultures in the middle east, and later largely retconned to be all part of an intricate metanarrative about life, the meaning of life, morality, civilization, humanity, God, and everything, by followers of an emerging religion adopting its ideas to varying degrees or portions of those ideas, from anywhere between decades and centuries after those writings were originally written. But Christians usually aren't aware of all that.)

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@johnwalker1058 Or he doesn't know what 'subsequent' means.

[@konroh2]

@@johnwalker1058 The NT was indeed collected as canon centuries after Christ, but there was an already established OT canon. We shouldn't overlook, as well, that the early Church fathers need to be considered for the meaning and development of Christianity. It's actually remarkable that the early centuries come to a consensus as they hammer out the foundations of Christianity.

[@judsonanderson9007]

I almost lost water through my nose at "relative dating" around @11:35. Well played Paul.

[@TheUltrahypnotoad]

Is it time for a war on xmas already? I swear it gets earlier every year.

[@petercoo9177]

Lol moment, Hypnofish, excellent!

[@realrealwarpet]

The war on Christmas never ends. How else will christians feel so persecuted?

[@marccolten9801]

If they didn’t insist on celebrating Christmas starting in October it wouldn’t be necessary to fight it earlier

[@joe19912]

My in-laws aren't invited over because they still refuse to get vaxxed... I'm sure they feel extra-persecuted this year.

[@tetsujin_144]

I feel like we only just barely got finished celebrating satanism at Halloween, barely even started hatefully discrediting Christianity by honestly recounting the story of Thanksgiving, and here we are, already rallying in preparation for our all-out assault on Christmas...

[@grayintheuk8021]

Excellent work Paulogia - as ever. Thanks

[@匕卄モ匕卄丹れKち]

He needs to stop with obvious lie that he use to be atheists, it’s obvious he never was but he obviously loves scamming his followers into blindly believing whatever nonsense he claims.

[@lnsflare1]

It could be that he used to be an atheist and now he's an atheist who knows how ridiculously easy and profitable it is to scam theists by regurgitating the same shitty talking points apologists have been using for centuries/millennia while claiming to have been pulled away from atheism by them.

[@stevewebber707]

It's Lee Strobel here. Considering how much money he makes selling these books, I'd be willing to grant that could even still be atheist. Just one that likes making money telling lies. I think it's hard to get away from his dishonesty somewhere in the equation, but I don't know where the dishonesty stops. But I do agree that claiming that an argument is good because it convinced someone, is not a good way of presenting an argument. Especially when so many of the arguments are demonstrably bad.

[@dansmith9859]

As someone who was deep into the church the first half of my life, when Christians say atheist it doesn't mean what that word actually means. To a Christian "I used to be an atheist" means they believed in god and their bible, they just didn't go to church every Sunday and they didn't obsess over their religion and reference it nearly every second of every day. A Christian who says they used to be an atheist really means they used to be a lukewarm Christian.

[@proculusjulius7035]

@@lnsflare1 if it weren't for my moral integrity, Elon Musk would be my butler's butler and my butler would be Jeff Bezos himself. XD

[@johns3927]

People change their minds all the time, even for reasons that are not rational. So it's not that unreasonable. However, Laura Robinson (a Christian) points out that a lot of what he says about how he was interviewing people and that he was really skeptical interviewing them doesn't really pan out. It's part of a longer podcast called The New Testament Review reviewing his book.

[@davidblum7125]

Thanks for spilling the plans for this year’s war on Christmas.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Obviously this means these are decoys and the true plan will be something completely different!

[@rustkitty]

I found Lee's video very convincing. It convinced me to enlist to the war against x-mas!

[@autobotstarscream765]

Odin the Yule-Father shall not be overthrown! X-Mas forever!

[@DavidSmith-xs3or]

In my part of the country, radio stations started playing Christmas music before Halloween, and stores start their Christmas displays at about the same time. I guess they're beginning their big war- against-Christmas sales marketing blitz.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

"All Paul wrote is that the earthly Jesus hung out with disciples, ate lunch, and died."! Hahahahahaaaa! (

[@willcoster8029]

A. N. Sherwin-White is such an important historian that I, a professional historian of a different period, have never heard of him.

[@tweetdriver]

I have always used the historical facts that there actually was an American Civil War, during which a General named Sherman really did burn a city called Atlanta as solid proof that all the events and people in Gone With the Wind are historically accurate.

[@Joemamahahahaha821]

Right?

[@Joemamahahahaha821]

Good comparison

[@aaronshropshire8552]

My very favorite into to a Paulogia video so far!

[@matthewcross7654]

Nice touch with the intro theme

[@sobertillnoon]

Hardcore historical truth is my favorite genre of documentary.

[@michaeldeaton]

"Even when I was an atheist" Spoiler alert: Lee Strobel was never an atheist. He was just a christian in denial while he went through his party phase. Once he got old enough he ran right back to the comfort of mommy and daddy's fictions.

[@Futt.Buckerson]

That's pretty much what I think when I hear Christians, and especially apologists/theologians, say that sort of thing. It's also just convenient that Christians eat those stories up, and that books like Case for Christ sold like hotcakes in the late 90s.

[@Omerta_1964]

He was not even a weak skeptic!

[@bamremix8235]

Sure sure...you definitely know

[@TheDizzleHawke]

Or he was apathetic to religion.

[@Bill_Garthright]

@@bamremix8235 _you definitely know_ No, not "definitely," of course. But what does Lee Strobel do in "The Case for Christ"? He asks questions of _his own_ brand of Christian, and then just believes everything he's told. As I recall, he doesn't even ask other kinds of _Christians,_ let alone anyone who might give him a different perspective. So, yeah, it's _very_ hard to believe that he's telling the truth about that "former atheist" thing. I don't know that for _certain,_ of course. How could I? But his own book sure seems to demonstrate that it's likely a lie, an exaggeration, or maybe just wishful-thinking, combined with the fallibility of memory.

[@jlegg2]

I once sat in a church service (my parents' church) while a Baptist minister preached a fiery sermon in the weeks leading up to Christmas, all about the innkeeper looking up from Hell and wishing he had not turned away Mary and Joseph in their time of need. That innkeeper had rejected Jesus, he said, and now the innkeeper would never have another opportunity to accept Jesus. A friend of the family ended up leaving the church over this specific sermon because the pastor was being "unbiblical" by referencing an innkeeper who is not in the text. Most of the congregation didn't bat an eye... in fact, they affirmed with "amen" throughout.

[@realrealwarpet]

I’d complain about putting Christmas stuff up before thanksgiving, but paul is canadian, so he already did that. So Christmas is the next holiday for him

[@evanskip1]

So this vedio is being sold. Thanks paoligia that yours is free for us. Blessed

[@Paulogia]

🙏

[@johnbiggscr]

So he’s claiming the traveling to your home town for a census was a real thing? I thought that was thought of as nonsense?

[@marccolten9801]

It was a rule fostered by the mule and camel rental industry.,

[@eugeneoisten9409]

Only apologist still cling to that absurdity. Just as they cling to the death of the innocents as historical fact.

[@johnbiggscr]

@@marccolten9801 ah classic big dromedary tactic. You cant trust that lot.

[@michaelsommers2356]

Not your home town, but the home town of your ancestors 1000 years ago. Can you do that?

[@grumpylibrarian]

I always appreciate your guidance through early christian writings in separating the bald assertions from the reasonably justified details. Thank you. This would be a lot easier if the "professional" apologists would at least compare notes and get on the same page. Instead, one person hears something misquoted from decades ago, tweaks it again, publishes it, and we now have a "source" for more unfounded assertions.

[@raven_g6667]

My mom broke her back and went into extreme debt to provide nice Christmases for my brothers and I. For that, I'm grateful but we grew up very poor and I feel like if she wasn't obsessed with the obligation of Christmas, my family wouldn't have suffered as much as we did. I don't dislike Christmas becuz I'm an atheist, I don't care for it becuz under capitalism, consumption is more important than stability.

[@iseriver3982]

Yeah, capitalism forced your mother to spend the money she didn't have. How dare christmas tell people to buy more than they can afford. Not like its a holiday to enjoy giving presents and eating with friends and family. I think your mum suffered from 'wanting to be the best parent she could'. And no religion or monetary system had stopped mothers from doing that.

[@Bill_Garthright]

@@iseriver3982 _I think your mum suffered from 'wanting to be the best parent she could'. And no religion or monetary system had stopped mothers from doing that._ I agree! On the other hand, what "best parent" _means_ to a mother tends to depend on her society - and both religion and economic systems have a lot to do with that. For example, I think that Mothers Day is a crock, just invented by commercial interests to make more money. But I still gave my mother cards and gifts when she was alive. Society expected it, so _she_ expected it, even though she would have told me - indeed, _did_ tell me, sometimes - that it wasn't necessary. I rebelled against that by occasionally buying her flowers or candy for no reason. Yeah, I really taught those businesses a lesson, didn't I? But much as I dislike Mothers Day, I still bought her stuff _then,_ too. So I guess I disagree with you. We are _all_ influenced by our society, and that includes religion (for the religious) and our economic system.

[@raven_g6667]

@@iseriver3982 calm down buddy lolz. No need to get your little undies in a twist. I'm sorry for criticizing your beloved capitalism.

[@kinoko5566]

I've stopped following a lot of atheist creators but you and Vices Rhino are so informative I watch your videos right away.

[@olliew9487]

Why does Lee Strobel refuse to debate atheists? The only time I've ever seen him debate one was on a panel with Christopher Hitchens alongside several apologists, including WLC. He didn't even engage with Hitchens once, too, just sat there.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

his demeanor seems to suggest he went to apologist school and needs a script. it's so car salesman it hurts.

[@Satans_lil_helper]

He had enough sense to keep his mouth shut. Hitch would have eviscerated Strobel's sophomoric approach to historicity and skepticism.

[@utubepunk]

He'd rather preach to the choir. Besides, he got paid for being there & wasn't required to speak. He probably saw it as a risk to speak. If he gets dunked on by Hitchens, that'll be around forever on the Internet.

[@crookedhead3075]

Hurrah!! Paulogia put up a video! Makes my day.

[@When_Prophecy_Fails]

Saint Nicholas was a real person, therefore elves making presents at the north pole and Santa climbing down chimneys is accurate.

[@stubdo16]

Ha ha. I read elves as Elvis at first (aging eyes). Back I the 1980s there was a big myth/legend thing about Elvis being alive and hiding out in the UK.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@stubdo16 Those were mistaken attributions from people who saw The Guy Who Looks Like Elvis, Scott Hall, one of the creators of the one true Hollywood Elite New World Order.

[@cdorst08]

Love the Christmas lights! Great video, as always.

[@Paulogia]

Happy holidays!

[@Rei-Rei]

I would SO love to see you do an apologetic "proving" the existence of Spider-Man using all the usual apologetic tricks for an April fool video or something. :3

[@michaelsommers2356]

Legends can certainly grow up in less than two generations. Look at, for just one example, Buffalo Bill. He was born in 1846. His legend started to grow after the Civil War, and really took off in the 1870s. His Wild West show began in 1883. He died in 1917, so his legend began while he was still alive.

[@Marniwheeler]

Great video. Thank you. Always appreciate your work.

[@erimgard3128]

"relative dating" nice gag

[@CallinWire]

Paulogia you scared me when you changed the intro music. I realize it's probably just a seasonal change but I look forward to hearing it return.

[@OscarSommerbo]

I find it baffling that these supposedly "learned men" dismisses influences of earlier religions and the fact that Jesus' birth happens to coincide with the winter solstice, an already widely celebrated holiday. On a lighter note, Strobel seems entirely too smug and condescending to be as wrong as he is. Has anyone confirmed that he actually was an Atheist, or is that just to artificially increase his church-cred?

[@lnsflare1]

To be fair, the winter solstice thing was explicitly something the early church was known to do with its holidays, to make it easier for pagans to convert since they could still have similar celebrations.

[@Bill_Garthright]

_Has anyone confirmed that he actually was an Atheist_ That's a hard thing to "confirm." Heh, heh. But he clearly wasn't an atheist when he wrote "The Case for Christ, " or otherwise, he'd have asked questions of people _other_ than his own brand of Christian. And he wouldn't have automatically believed everything they told him, either. And he was born in Arlington Heights, Illinois in 1952, one year after I was born, a few states over. If he wasn't raised Christian, I'd be astonished. I didn't know a single person who _wasn't_ a Christian all the time I grew up - _at least_ through high school. But maybe he had doubts for a few years? Or maybe he's just lying? Who knows?

[@OscarSommerbo]

@@Bill_Garthright Well, "confirming" was a high threshold to set, the only way to confirm it would be if he written about being an Atheist prior to "finding Jesus". But you make a strong case for him at least being raised Christian. I am sure he had doubt, and now conflates doubt with being an Atheist, and just by chance that gives him Church cred, as Christians are suckers for a redemption story. I hesitate to call people liars, but I do think he uses his supposed "Atheism" to sell more books.

[@TorianTammas]

The idea to celebrated a birthday is a heathen idea. Jews did not do this. So neither Jesus nor Juden apostles ever set together to celebrate Jesus Birthday with a cake. So the very idea of celebrating Jesus birth is a much later invention. The date of the celebration was put willfully at the time of heathen festivals. It is unknown when (if at all) Yeshuah was born.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@TorianTammas If anything, they celebrated Hanukkah! Where's my 8 days of presents!? 🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁

[@mikezak4760]

Oh man lmao.. i nearly lost it when you used the dinner scene from Talladega nights.

[@blackice9088]

"If it were all a fairy tale we could just dismiss it...." Right you are Mr. Strobel, therefore it's been dismissed! NEXT!!

[@bpdrumstudio]

YOU Paul... are amazing...amazing

[@willowwisp357]

Legends are created for political reasons and when it's politically expedient those legends can manifest in a day.

[@jaggerjards7236]

Hahahahaha @ 11:33 `Relative dating` showing Cletus and another hillbilly. Pure genius Paul - pure genius!

[@christophertstone]

22:20 Leaping to "implicitly referencing the unusual nature of Jesus birth" is just an anachronism. Jesus came from a Jewish society, where your Jewish status was matrilineal. It was important to someone's claim of being a Jew that their *mother* was a known Jew -- Their father did not matter to this claim. Lee is coming from a patrilineal society (where children typically take their father's last name), and misapplying those implications to a different society.

[@MrCmon113]

Was that already the case in antiquity? Anyways it's surprising given that Jahwe is one of the most aggressively patriarchal characters in mythology.

[@tompatterson1548]

@@MrCmon113 matrilineal but patriarchal makes sense since you always know who the mother is.

[@shriggs55]

The father determined the tribe-or what tribe his bloodline came from.Supposedly,Jesus had no bloodline connected to a flesh and blood father-because of the so called "virgin mother" The virgin birth renders the two genealogies of Joseph moot.And ,anyhow,one genealogy said that Joseph's bloodline came through David's son,Nathan,while the other one said it came through Solomon.It can't be both.It's the Solomon one that counts because that's the one the messiah would come from.And,the mother's bloodline doesn't count when it comes to determining inheritance and tribal connection.

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@Joseph Riggs Furthermore, we have no grounds for believing that Jesus was descended from King David which means Jesus fails to qualify as the Jewish Messiah who was suppose to be a son of David upon the throne of David.

[@brentverc]

Damm i love this channel. But its christmas and time for little gifts. Great work Paul

[@andycook3143]

IF Luke was written in 60AD, that's still 60 years after the events of the nativity, not 30 years.

[@konroh2]

If I wrote a biography today about someone born in 1960 would you think that it couldn't be true because it was so long after the person's birth?

[@MrDryqula]

@@konroh2 We have better access to information now than in the 1st century, but even then, the accuracy of many biographies is questionable.

[@konroh2]

@@MrDryqula Which biographies are you referring to? I've read many, and of course some can have secondary sources and be written from a biased perspective, but one can easily spot the questionable ones. It's not that everyone is questionable--which is the point. I'd also question your statement about better access to information--while this is true technologically, we also have a plethora of misinformation. Eyewitness testimonies and written accounts are still relied on.

[@antiksur8883]

​​@@konroh2You mean in an age where we have independent sources that could confirm what the biography is saying instead of what four people say and that's it? And are you trying to imply that there is MORE misinformation today than there was two millennia ago? Let's get to the point: you can find more reliable information today than you can in any point in history. Anyone who thinks that the internet has suddenly drastically increased levels of misinformation than ever before is lying. That people have the instinct to immediately trust anything said on the internet before digging deeper is not a refutation of that.

[@konroh2]

@@antiksur8883 Obviously historically the life of Jesus is attested to by thousands in the first century. The Gospels are written records, along with other sources. Yes, there is more misinformation today because of the internet. I agree we can find reliable info, but we have much more info to sort through, some good, some faulty. In any age truth must be filtered, we've always had bad info.

[@lfg4241]

Mate can you do a video about contradictions in the Gospels (i.e if you haven't already done one)

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@LF G Lol Paul may not have the stamina for a 27 hour video! 😇

[@grapeshot]

Christmas has its pagan origins in the winter solstice, Sol Invictus, saturnalia etc. It's just a holiday that eventually Christians would hijack. It was such a popular Pagan Festival that the Christians were like, well if you can't beat it, we'll just take it over.

[@blackgreyfox242]

I have taken it back over personally, hell I would say for most the part capitalism or family is what is most celebrated, hence why we are asked to keep the Christ in Christmas. He was not in there originally and apparently has fallen out of favor once again.

[@stevencorey7623]

I LoOoOove Christmas! even though i dont have religion around it. love decorating and family get togethers. i dont need a GAWD to have fun and enjoy the holidays.

[@autobotstarscream765]

But Odin the Yule-Father is a kewl gawd... 🎅

[@0nlyThis]

The "legend" of the Messiah, whose imminent Coming was expected by the Epistle writers, was already well established when the anonymous author of Mark chose to assign the title to his literary Jesus character.

[@hannahvayda5799]

This is the best birthday present ever 🎂

[@istvansipos9940]

happy birthday!

[@timothy8428]

I like the idea that King James had fairy lights up in his throne room.

[@dustinosborn4068]

There’s like a hundred things my mind isn’t made up about but to see a Christian scholar admit to that is something special.

[@nonna_sof5889]

The war on Christmas will not end until Christmas ceases its illegal occupation of Halloween territory!

[@PrimevalDemon]

0:48 hi I'm new to this Channel and have been watching stuff you put out for the better part of the past 12 hours whilst trying to sleep and i believe that this intro is a new song for the Christmas specific theme BUT it is in similar sound/instrument to stuff at beginning and end sequence of other videos you previously have shared so before i forget AGAIN (have multiple videos prior now) i wish to ask from what source do you draw your soundtrack/ music you utilize both as backing/ opening motif as well as in general. It reminds me of a certain somethingy-ness like I think it reminds me of music from a ceremony for after a funeral i attended as a kid/early teenager? I'm sorry if I sound terribly ignorant or inept lol I mean I am but for a wide swathe of reasons than just my little question herein Oh I'm adding this after the above but before the stats (currently 12:46 am ny time) but does "Paulogia" mean anything? To me it sound like latin but also like a nation or something foreign to my minds tongue but the way it's utilized in you/voice is more bland I guess so it feels like it could be like a portmanteau or something lesser in origin but greater perhaps only to myself/ minds enveloped in my ignorance or at least the kind I feel/find inself? No rudeness or anything inherent or intended. I am glad to have gave your stuff time because initially because of the thumbnail I was a smidge offput tbh (epilog/ pre stat snippet ends 12:53 am ny time same day as below) Anyway as of 12:34 am ny time Monday December 11th 2023 vid stats are: Posted 2 years ago , Nov 9th 2021 75k / 75,550 views 4k likes prior to mine momentarily 1.1k comments prior this Channel subs 120k including mine

[@nospam9035]

he literally has a Christmas tree in the background while questioning traditions...

[@pwoods100]

"In the end, the child in the manger deserves our allegiance and he deserves our worship. If you haven't turned over your worries or your problems to him, then by the end of this study - I hope that you will." That's basically all you need to know about Lee Strobel and Christian apologetics.

[@madison_hailstorm]

From everything I’ve seen, I do like Sean McDowell. Able to admit his faults and take new data into account, unlike almost every other apologist

[@VioletJoy]

I had never heard of him, although I'm familiar with his father. If he is indeed able to do the things you mentioned, then we very well may be looking at a future atheist.

[@TorianTammas]

The basic fault is believing a story which imagines some a god is born by a woman. By the way the idea that gods or half gods are born by woman is a dime a dozen in antiquity. Hercules mother is Alkmene and Zeus was the father.

[@bertrandrussell7138]

@drizzle I agree. Sean does seem to be a cut above the rest.

[@inefffable]

Loved the intro ❤ Merry Christmas yall

[@philswaim392]

Legends happen months or days after an event. Mcdonalds hot coffee..... i rest my case

[@JM-ot8ux]

Thirty-some years ago, a few years after he died, a woman wrote a letter to a newspaper claiming that while sitting and listening to In The Ghetto, and passing her hands over a picture of Elvis, she felt Elvis's presence in the room, and Elvis cured her of whatever illness she was experiencing. Elvis cured her, she was quite sure of it, she saw him.

[@bengreen171]

is it just me, or is there a hint of Alan Alda in Strobel's voice? He certainly 'mash's' up his evidence....

[@Satans_lil_helper]

How dare you! Now, I can't unhear it. Childhood ruined! 😭

[@bengreen171]

@@Satans_lil_helper oh man - sorry about that. Try thinking not that Alda is Strobel - but that Strobel is a comic character portrayed by Alda in some crime caper movie about a bumbling detective....

[@camwyn256]

12:00 "Legends typically take a long time to accrue." Notice he said "typically take," not always

[@latarribell4152]

“When your wife holds out on the cookies, you’ll change your god belief real fast!!” Lee Strobel(I think)

[@kmarklandes8630]

If not it sounds like an accurate paraphrase!

[@autobotstarscream765]

Hasn't changed Dr. Josh yet... 😂

[@SandyRiverBlue]

Has this guy heard of the Moonies? We're talking about tens of thousands of people all over the world, who believe that a Korean gentleman is Christ returned, along with all the miracles you would expect.

[@MacTheHuman]

Ooooo that Lee Strobel grinds my gears. Not a hint of sincerity.

[@matthewrichards8218]

Good researcher. Definitely good. 😊

[@inefffable]

"But then subsequent translations changed FOR SOME REASON" yea, some reason. Lee won't investigate or be intellectually honest about these reasons....but ya,,some reason.

[@aaronbredon2948]

I have a case for Christmas, too. Since I want to avoid secular commercialism, it is a used attache case, and not in good shape, but it can easily hold the entirety of the truth of Christmas.

[@autobotstarscream765]

That would actually be a neat thing to carry a Bible in. 😎

[@Arlondev]

Atheist Christmas favorites: Deck the halls with Balls of Science All i want for Christmas is a series of 500-1,000 page science textbooks on mainly biology but astrophysics is nice too Last Christmas, i gave you my research paper White test-tube

[@EdwardHowton]

I'm dreaming of a white lab coat, Just like the ones I used to own! With the goggles glistening (They DON'T do nothing!) To test hypotheses I know, oh, I know... I said, I'm dreaming of a white lab coat With every pocket full of gloves May the lenses stay polished and bright And may all your lab coats be white

[@Arlondev]

@@EdwardHowton I wanted to edit "Lab coat" in too! Damn! Beat me to it!