The Unoriginal Resurrection of Jesus | Dr. Richard C. Miller

[@gmac6503]

That was just friggin' too good to be real!! What a goldmine of information! And I have the book and the course! Jacob and the questioners, thanks, and of course Dr Miller. This is worth watching more than once - and I will!

[@NathanMyers-c8y]

A resurrection was table stakes.

[@joselabiosa8892]

Great discussion. Kudos to Dr. Miller for his outstanding research findings. This kind of critical thinking is needed in public schools to help enlightening all citizens to the context and content of ancient writings, myths and cults. ❤

[@justme8767]

Another good presentation, treasure of information. Thank you, Dr. Miller. 👍 Jacob, when I first found your channel a couple years ago, you seemed really "stiff"/flat personality to me. Almost unsubscribed. But nowadays? You're in my top 3 of non-scholar theological channels, right there with Derek and Neal. You've got a great variety of guests and content, your questions are great, your softspokenness is relaxing, and I love the way you're mellow and dont interrupt, and always make sure your guests are finished with their expressed thoughts before proceeding with your own comments/further questions. Oh, and your endearing twinkly-eyed smiles, which seem to happen more these days, always make me smile too. Glad I stayed subscribed. I enjoy your channel and am glad it exists. Thank you for all you do to help folks like me learn. You're much appreciated.😊👍

[@Ken_Scaletta]

I've been reading books on NT scholarship for over thirty years and Dr. Miller's "Resurrection and Reception in the Ancient World" is maybe the best I've ever read. He has a gallery of ancient translation stories, usually with multiple citations for each. The book is worth it for that gallery alone. Every aspect of every appearance story about Jesus is troped for multiple other gods, demigods and heroes both mythological and historical. Famous people got translated. Emperors most famously, but also famous people in general. Great artists, athletes, philosophers, etc. and quite often people seen as martyrs or as dying unjust deaths (e.g Julius Caesar, Socrates). You come away from Miller's book realizing that ancient readers would have found the gospels full of cliches.

[@jimbob3030]

"You come away from Miller's book realizing that ancient readers would have found the gospels full of cliches." Only a very small minority of the ancient world could read or were aware of cliches though, so the masses were oblivious to the obvious as many of ours are today.

[@Ken_Scaletta]

@@jimbob3030 This is incorrect, they were quite aware of them and commented on them. Most people couldn't read bit they were still quite conversant with the stories and understood tropes and recognized allusions to Homer, etc, as well as plays like Euripides' Bacchae which they would have seen as plays. Lots of other plays, songs, artistic depictions of every sort showed scenes from Homer. There are scenes in the Gospels that are meming scenes from Classical mythology and people noticed. All you have to do is read the quote from Justin Martyr about the sons of Jupiter. The Gospels were seen as hackneyed even in their day. There were writers like Celsus who pointed out all the tropes.

[@jimbob3030]

@@Ken_Scaletta You may be correct, but the words of Justin Martyr were allegedly directed towards Emperor Antoninus Pius, someone who would have had an education and been aware of the connections and references being made, those words were not directed at the uneducated masses who had no ability to tell myth and legend from history or reality. The masses of today show you how the masses of the past would have reacted. Still to this day, even with some education, they don't realize jesus myth is myth identical to myths of the past, they don't connect it directly with myth of the past at all. Rather than hearing it and understanding it's roots in obvious myth, they think it's true, meaning they don't really understand it at all nor do they understand what Justin Martyr is saying even when you tell them straight to their faces, they are oblivious even when you rub their noses in that passage and even when you explain it to them.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

@@jimbob3030 Books and letters were read out loud. There were no TV sets or radios to distract people. And people in commerce had used writing and arithmetic for centuries. Around 500 BC, no less than Pythagoras was praised for "Liberating numbers from the merchants."

[@jimbob3030]

@@scottmcloughlin4371 Nothing you are saying is news to me, nor does it change the fact that ancient people fell for religions en masse and did not see through them. Only the most educated people in the past would have seen through them. A rare few. Merchants etc weren't highly educated, nor were they especially literate, most of them were barely literate enough to do their jobs. There was no education for the masses back then, none. People could read things to them every single day that doesn't mean they had been taught critical thinking skills or had reading comprehension skills to fully comprehend what was being read to them. Even to this day the majority of the world believes in religions and does not see through them, even though todays people are way more educated. Even now critical thinking skills are rare and not taught in most schools.

[@jeffreygrantsmith]

This is a master class on how to conduct an interview. Pithy questions, attentive listening, and ample space for response. Top notch. RCM's research is enlightening and revealing. His exploration of the origins of New Testament mythologies is the antidote to Christian fundamentalism.

[@devinbraun1852]

Excellent, well worth the listen. I’ve listened to Dr Miller numerous times on YT now and I think I need to get his book(s).

[@daveallen7154]

Great interview Jacob! You could listen to Rick for hours.

[@robinette64]

LOVE Dr. Miller!! Great interview!

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Lots of meat in this discussion. What Dr. Richard C Miller discussed makes me more convinced that if there was an historical Jesus, Christians did everything they could to erase him and replace him with one who never existed.

[@todradmaker4297]

Have you ever heard of the telephone game? Minor unsubstantiated claims can grow to major mythological proportions in no time at all and spread like wildfire. It happens all of the time. The Gospel writers were just very gifted in the art of cultural analogy.

[@yvonnegreenberg6449]

What does Dr Miller mean by the” translation”?

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

In Latin, translatio meant being carried across. The pattern applied to individuals in cult and myth who were said to have been hailed as demigods. In text and cult this was signaled by a bodily transformation, from mortal to immortal.

[@andrewridge4978]

Yet more depth and variety. Thank you.

[@kingofmphs]

It’s amazing that this fiction has lasted to today!!!

[@jimbob3030]

You say amazing, I say disgusting.

[@edelgyn2699]

@@jimbob3030 You come across as a bit of a kill joy, I guess pulp fiction is lost on some... 😏

[@jimbob3030]

@@edelgyn2699 I have nothing against movies containing John Travolta and Samuel L Jackson, those are harmless and entertaining and they don't spark fascism or violent coup attempts.

[@johnnehrich9601]

I was thinking that in a thousand years from now, how would scholars treat A Christmas Carol story "according to Dickens," if they came across it in some dusty corner. While the story does contain supernatural beings, these ghosts all could totally be in Scrooge's mind. Future scholars might think this could actually be a true story of a tightwad old geezer, who simply goes to sleep on Christmas eve and wakes up the next day all sweet and reformed. Just like some suggest the Jesus stories are basically true but given legendary embellishments. One factoid, I would suspect, is that the author intrudes upon the story in several places, meaning scholars could claim he was an eyewitness. Skeptics would notice though Dickens doesn't tell us any facts about himself within this story, as to why he knows this story - which would provide evidence of a historical account. Dickens also doesn't give any dates to pin the story down, other than 7 years after Marley's death, also not fixed to the year. Good scholars in the far future could seize on details in the story and the style of writing to suggest it is the early Victorian era, but that is as good as they could do. (Real histories are peppered with dates.) Another suggestion is given by the author having an all-inclusive view of events, even knowing what Scrooge at times is thinking, a key give-away of fiction. And how the story is tied together in a neat bow. On the other hand, I bet these future scholars might have their own analytical tests, like criterion of embarrassment, or unintended consequences, which would (falsely) "prove" the story was an accurate account. The rational scholars would toss out the interactions with the ghosts as "visions." But they might try to analyze what is left over, to pin down the "historical" Scrooge. And from a practical viewpoint, we today would know there almost certainly was not a real Scrooge or Tiny Tim or Bob Cratchit. (Because we can read biographies of Dickens.) Any good author, and Dickens was among the best, would have no problem creating these characters like literary frankensteins, with features from people Dickens knew, or knew of, blended in seamless creations. Finally, the stripped-down story only leaves such mundane features of the characters and events - hard working conditions, childhood disease poverty, and dream - that trying to find out if these people were historical or not is mild curiosity but largely irrelevant.

[@todradmaker4297]

The thing most mythologist tend to neglect is the element of time. It is common knowledge that A Christmas Carol is a work of fiction. It would have to be forgotten for 80 to 100 years for it to be mistaken for a real story. Likewise, we know that Superman and Batman are fictional characters. If someone would try to write a story claiming that Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne were real people, no one would buy it. It's one thing to write a story about Noah or Abraham that happened hundreds of years in the past and claim that they were real people and a totally different case to try to misrepresent the historical nature of Jesus of Nazareth a short 40 years after his life. You have to remember that there was a growing Christian community around when the gospels were written. Don't you think that they would have been shocked to learn that their Jesus of space was an actual living person?

[@johnnehrich9601]

@@todradmaker4297 No, this was meant to be an analogy, of trying to determine what is true from ONLY the story itself. But you have to remember that "Mark" wrote after the destruction of all of Jerusalem by the Romans, when all Jews were slaughtered, enslaved, or expelled, and Jerusalem was covered in several feet of ash and debris. He obviously did not write there and said tiny community would be dispersed and diluted. How likely would it be if he could find any original followers? It is clear he worked from Paul, and it is also clear he took what Paul said and recast it into the mouth of his Jesus. And what the works of both mythologists and secular historicists show that the rest can be accounted for by his rewriting of OT and surrounding pagan stories. We also have the differences between the "facts" in the gospels even when they were directly copying each other and dozens of other non-canonical gospels which can't ALL be true, so it is clear people felt free to make up anything they want. One of the key elements of the "historical" Jesus story is that he was crucified by the Romans. This important fact can't be agreed on as to why. Richard Carrier writes about the work of other scholars that show that "Mark's" account of holy week matches some 20 elements, in sequence, to a story about a madman killed during the siege of Jerusalem. You say it is common knowledge that the Dickens story is fiction. But we don't know if it was also common knowledge that the Jesus story was fictional allegory when first written. Mormonism took off with a mythical angelic source and if technology was as limited today as it was back then, this could have been rewritten as a flesh-n-blood guy and been believed. There is also the fact that if a threat to the empire had been rooted out by killing a wandering rabbi, they would have killed all his devoted followers who were so committed to him that they supposedly gave up their jobs and family to follow him. And if rumors were going around that this Jesus had somehow escaped death, every encounter of the early christians with the authorities would have resulted with not being simply martyred but tortured as long as they could to find out where Jesus was hiding out.

[@johnnehrich9601]

@@todradmaker4297It doesn't take ANY time for a myth to develop. Elvis sightings started almost immediately after he died. Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster, flat earth, faux moon landing, Cottingley fairies, alien abductions, all contemporary myths continue unabated - in fact, for many, the more proofs to the contrary only convince them these must be true. Sherlock Holmes was believed by a number of people AT THE TIME of publication, despite the stories claim to be written by Watson yet the story is bylined to Doyle right there. Holmes' address was well-known and at the time, the numbers did not get to 221, so anyone could have checked, either by walking there, or looking in a city directory. Doyle was very frustrated by this and did his best to set the public straight, to no avail. And it only takes a few people to perpetuate the myth which can then grow as time goes on.

[@Bamruff62]

I think the " Roswell stories" might provide a better example of a modern-day myth that could take root as an actual literal story 1500 years from now. ... A weather balloon crashed out there in the New Mexico desert back in 1947 and hardly any of the American public knew about in 1947. People were hearing a few scant stories here and there about it in the press,. Some people were claiming it was a flying saucer that crashed outside of Roswell, but most of the public dismissed that as a hoax. Most of the public weren't paying any attention to it. But as time passed a few dedicated True Believers kept on putting out stories of the UFO crash in the desert. As time went on the Ufologist came out with more details about the crashed flying saucer. They began to describe the properties of the alloy in the flying saucer. One lady who lived there in Roswell and claims she was a witness to the crashed UFO told how she witness the peculiar properties of the alloys in the wreckage found at the crash site. She told how you could crunch-up the metal, ball it up like a baseball then lay it down on a table and the balled-up debris would straighten itself out perfectly straight and neat on its own. Chalk one up for human imagination. Later stories came out how they actually found alien bodies at the crash site. I believe that was a later development. As time pass the myth grew. Throw in America's and Russia's space programs and landing a man on the moon and all the movies and sci-fi shows coming out at the time and you have a perfect recipe for a modern-day myth taking root. .. I believe today about 18% of the adult population believes an alien spaceship piloted by some alien species from a planet hundreds of trillions of miles away crashed landed on our planet and one third of Americans believe its "plausible". If that can happen in a modern society where 95% of population is literate, and has a mass communication system then it can certainly happen in a culture where the populace is blatantly ignorant by today's standards, overwhelmingly non-literate and the God-Man myth was already prevalent and common place.

[@johnnehrich9601]

@@Bamruff62 Maybe I didn't explain this clearly. Yes, your example is much more likely to really happen, 1000x more likely. In fact, to a certain degree already has. I was trying to create an analogy of something today for what some people think happened 2k years ago. The background info on Dickson's story is readily available to us now, and it doesn't take long to show it is fiction. However, if we were as limited as they were at the time or we today are trying to find evidence that survived, just examining this story by the same limited methods scholars have to use for ancient text, I was trying to show would lead to false conclusions.

[@WorshipperOfLife]

King David wrote about his resurrection in Psalms 16:10, he also wrote about the resurrection of the Holy One. Who is the Holy One in Psalms 16:10

[@black6master]

I would be really interested in what music it is at the begging? Thanks

[@thomasrhodes5013]

The presentation was refreshing in so much as Dr. Miller seems to approach the subject from an assumption that a God, perhaps Most High, exists - while not forcing the perspective. He did not come to any conclusion respecting an ontological argument. Instead, Miller acknowledges the people trying to articulate an unquantifiable subject with their most sincere intelligence and honesty. Of course, I am also guilty of approaching this subject with a hopeful bias as an interested believer.

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

As an atheist, I agree that a god is possible, but a primitive Hebrew war/storm god that's based on Canaanite mythology, with a fetish for foreskins, animal sacrifices and the smell of burning meat is very unlikely. I can get behind the idea of a deistic god, but a deistic god is indistinguishable from no god at all.

[@iainmacvicar3728]

Can I ask a question not related to the discussion? What's up with the fake microphone and bookshelf background? I was confused for a while during watching that something doesn't look right on Jacob's end, then when I realised it I couldn't stop seeing it

[@quetzelmichaels1637]

The 'original sin' of the sacrifice and resurrection: The way of the Lord in the desert needs to be put into context with the previous passage: Sacrifice - Indeed, she has received from the hand of the LORD double for all her sins. Resurrection - Make straight in the wasteland a highway for our God! (Isa 40:2-3 NABO) Just as it is appointed that human beings die - be judged - appear a second time, (so also Christ) Heb 9:27-28. Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole (Isa 53:5 NABO) so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live... according to the spirit. (Rom 8:4 NABO) For, in their unawareness of the righteousness that comes from God and their attempt to establish their own (righteousness), they did not submit to the righteousness of God. (Rom 10:3 NABO) I will refine them as silver is refined, and I will test them as gold is tested. (Zec 13:9 NABO) So I became the shepherd of the flock to be slaughtered (Zec 11:7 NABO) In a single month I (overshadowed) the three shepherds (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob). (Zec 11:8 NABO) Then I took my staff "Refuge" and snapped it asunder, breaking off the covenant which I had made with all peoples (Noahic covenant) (Zec 11:10 NABO) Then I snapped asunder my other staff, "Heritage" (Deu 32:8) breaking off my brotherhood with Judah and Israel (Jacob/Israel/Shining One-Snake). (Zec 11:14 NABO) In an outburst of wrath, for a moment I hid my face from you; …This is for me like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah should never again deluge the earth; (Isa 54:8-9 NABO) For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (Mat 24:37 NABO) for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. (Mat 24:21-22 NABO) It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time… Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake (Dan 12:1-2 NABO) "I have decided to put an end to all mortals on earth (Gen 6:13 NABO) There will be waters above the dome of the sky, likely an icy one, that will refract light and there will no longer be night. It will tame the winds as it revolves synchronously with the Earth. All that water, to cover the earth, had to come from somewhere. The vision of the evenings and the mornings is true, as spoken (Dan 8:26 NABO) Your covenant with death shall be canceled and your pact with the nether world shall not stand. When the overwhelming scourge passes, you shall be trampled down by it. Whenever it passes, it shall take you; morning after morning it shall pass, By day and by night; terror alone shall convey the message. (Isa 28:18-19 NABO) In the morning you will say, 'Would that it were evening!' and in the evening you will say, 'Would that it were morning!' for the dread that your heart must feel and the sight that your eyes must see. (Deu 28:67 NABO) There is a baptism with which I must be baptized, and how great is my anguish until it is accomplished! "I have come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already blazing! (Luk 12:49-50 NABO) "For by my wrath a fire is enkindled that shall rage to the depths of the nether world, Consuming the earth with its yield, and licking with flames the roots of the mountains. (Deu 32:22 NABO) Down I went to the roots of the mountains; the bars of the nether world were closing behind me forever (Jon 2:7 NABO) 'Who will go down into the abyss (nether world)?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead) (Rom 10:7 NABO) -------------------------- And they counted out my wages, thirty pieces of silver (Zec 11:12 NABO) This time take the gear of a foolish shepherd. (Zec 11:15 NABO) For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. (1Co 1:25 NABO) for power is made perfect in weakness. (2Co 12:9 NABO) and when he was made perfect, he became the eternal source of salvation for all (Heb 5:9 NABO) But I am a worm, hardly human, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. (Psa 22:7 NABO) God sent a worm which attacked the plant, so that it withered. And when the sun arose, God sent a burning east wind; and the sun beat upon Jonah's head till he became faint. Then he asked for death, saying, "I would be better off dead than alive." (Jon 4:7-8 NABO) (Thus begins the way of the lord in the desert) He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth… He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity (Isa 53:2-3 NABO) (apparently, the worm attacked the shoot also)

[@glennalphonse9711]

Why didn't God send Jesus when Adam supposed to have sinned and another thing who was there to even write it and put in a book.All you can do is believe something like that you can never know it. You need to find the way that you can know the truth not belirve what someone wrote it takes Spiritual knowledge not book writings .The SPIRIT of TRUTH is waiting.🤔

[@humbleopulence]

What I'm getting from this interview is that Jesus is so unoriginal that it's actually insane to expect him to have been a real person. This guy was obviously a myth.

[@dustinellerbe4125]

I dont know how readers/scholars miss the audience relevance in these stories. The flock that they were after were the lost Israelites out in the nations.

[@NSBarnett]

Jacob -- How about asking what would have happened without Paul, or without Christianity as Christianity taking off; what if anything would people have had as religion? Would Islam have happened?

[@placeswelive5388]

He got lost in his own argument. Which one is heroic, the bones of saints or the disappearance at life's end?

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

Never felt lost… haha .. neither was “heroic”.. the cult of heroes survived Christianization as the cult of saints, that is, through the practice of the veneration of bones (among other themes and customs).

[@cliffmays442]

Sorry got distracted at the end. I meant to state, Why would the Nazi under Hitler wrote the Old Testament.

[@neophyteone712]

Justin Martyr has always been a sticking point for me. As Dr Miller pointed out, he had a front row seat at the formation (preservation?) of the Christian tradition. He was in the epicenter of the milieu that was forming the Gospels (!) And so if this was all myth and fan fiction, why did he choose to voluntarily _die_ for it? It seems to me our closest witness to this vital time period behaved very much like someone who took this material to be the genre of something historical, or at least transmitting something real. And for that he paid the ultimate price for. Sorry my friends, people don’t die for what they know to be fan fiction, they die for what they know to be true.

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

Martyrdom was perhaps the highest form of ascesis (ascetical austerity) and was much broader than just the orthodox earliest Christians. The tradition went back to Socrates, Heracles, and others. John the Baptist and the Maccabean martyrs also died as exhibitions of their ascesis vis-a-vis empire. Justin certainly saw himself as aligned with prior philosophical certitude (indicating that even Socrates and Plato and Christ were all manifestations of divine Logos). Bear in mind that all types of earliest Christians were martyrs: gnostics, Marcionites, Valentinians, etc. and the earliest Christians produced and sacralized a near countless variety of mythic and legendary texts. As early as Justin, allegorical and symbolic readings dominated the interpretive framework of these texts (rather than historiological). Ignatius himself fetishized death, that is, being found ground to bits in the belly of a lion. They did not die “for” any claims. Rather, and we see this throughout, they sought to die “like” the founders, even viewing such exhibition of dedication as salvific.

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

Eusebius (EH 4.16) is our source for Justin’s execution. Eusebius repeatedly described Justin as a “supreme philosopher,” aligning with my description in the prior comment. He had been polemically battling a famous Cynic philosopher named Crescens, which ended up getting Justin into a serious bit of trouble, given the political ties of his opponent. His accusations against Justin (not coincidentally) mirror those leveled at Socrates (the archetypal philosopher). The quote given in Eusebius of Justin’s antagonistic, deeply disrespectful posture against Crescens understandably pissed off his opponent and got him killed. Many earliest Christian martyrs provoked their own deaths deliberately through their own antagonism.. a suicidal tendency akin to “death by cop” as seen today.

[@VivaPR21]

Assuming the account of his martyrdom to be authentic… fanaticism can often lead someone to self destruction

[@n.c.1201]

"True" just means whatever someone believes...

[@neophyteone712]

@hermes2056 people die for what they believe to be true. Justin believed the story of the Christ to be as real as you and me because it was transmitted to him as history, not fan fiction

[@RichLunaMusic]

Good info although Christians are fuming at this video right now.

[@jhake67]

The body was missing..? That is just how the gospel of mark ends..

[@erichwebb8312]

Thanks for the share ….. ✝️

[@RealUvane]

Both historicists and mythicists are right. But who’s correct are the alchemists.

[@n.c.1201]

what do you mean

[@RealUvane]

@@n.c.1201 study alchemy!

[@n.c.1201]

@@RealUvane I know general concept of alchemy.... but I was thinking you had some specific thoughts....

[@RealUvane]

Christ is a natural phenomena, not a person. Just like the olympian gods.

[@ezekielsaltar4728]

Jesus' resurrection was unique and different than the other resurrections in that he was a victim of righteous violence and this is revealed in the Gospels. Romulus and the other deaths are shrouded and disguised in myth. The Romulus myth is drenched in violence, his mother is raped by Mars ("And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word."). Romulus kills his brother, and leads a revolution. Romulus "disappears" in a whirlwind to heaven, which is myth's way of hiding a founding murder. All this is exact opposite of what is found in the Gospels about Jesus. Another most important difference, no other historical figure that was claimed to be "resurrected" established a world wide movement like Jesus did.

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

All of the mimetic successors of Romulean translation fable were variants.. So, showing difference outside of basic template structure only further proves the story pattern. Mimesis typically implied transvaluation. In the case of earliest Christian mimesis, as with other Roman philosophically attuned permutations, typically meant asceticizing adaptation.

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

As for “establishing” something “world-wide”.. that was the accident of long human history (through numerous centuries up to the 1800s and 1900s). In the first 2 centuries, Romulus was far better well-known than Jesus.

[@ezekielsaltar4728]

@@RichardMiller-ym5jc Still it is an historical fact (the worldwide distribution of Christianity) historians like to minimize this because it is unexplained when given the other examples that the Jesus movement is suppose to be copying.

[@ezekielsaltar4728]

@@RichardMiller-ym5jc Do you have evidence of prior texts showing the murder of an innocent man? This is what the gospels are doing in the text. The uniqueness is completely revelatory, which dings the consciousness of the one hearing the story. The belief in the resurrection is not a result in believing people who claim to witness the event. Belief in a resurrection is the result of believing that Jesus was crucified. The Passion as laid out in the gospels is so unique as to demand resurrection. And you can derive all Christian doctrines based on the Crucifixion/Resurrection.

[@michaelsbeverly]

@@ezekielsaltar4728 There is nothing unique about the Jesus stories, what's worse, evil if Jesus was actually a god, because Jesus reflected his era in things like slavery. If Jesus was unique and special, why isn't there a single thing that he taught that would show this? Like, wash your hands because of germs, not "don't worry about washing your hands"? He could have saved millions if he'd taught something useful like germ theory. The dying and rising god motif is not unique, you can't find some detail like, "Well, nobody was ever named Jesus, with a mom named Mary, and a step-father named Joe, who blah, blah, blah..." The motif is not original, the story is not original, finding tiny details that are maybe original isn't going to help your case. Worldwide distribution of Christianity is easy to understand, just look at Islam.

[@tom7784]

The fact that you can compile a similar story to the story of Christ out of a hodgepodge of 1,000s of ancient myths is hardly surprising or insightful.

[@TheLookingOne]

The canonical christ stories are poor story telling Rabbi Singer points out that the Jewish women characters would not let the christ's body rot for 3 days and THEN apply unguents It's a plot hole that the writers and rewriters did not cover up, possibly because the christ character went down into hell

[@michaelsbeverly]

Book looks cool, but $50 for a 200 page book? Seriously? I'm confused...if the publisher is trying to make more money, having a lower price would seem to be a win-win strategy. If the publisher is trying to make less money, and have less people read the book, then I understand the pricing...but why?

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

It’s an academic monograph with the usual price tag for such works, not a trade paperback or pop-book. The value then is in its density and depth of field peer review. No sentences are wasted.

[@michaelsbeverly]

@@RichardMiller-ym5jc Yeah, okay, but you're still not answering my questions. If it was priced like a popular book, oh, say like a Bart Erhman book, not only would it make more money, it would get into the hands of more people who could and would benefit. So, the publisher, to keep this perceived value thing going, is willing to make less money and see less readership, and that boggles my mind. Why? Let me ask you a simple question. Would your rather have sold 100 items at $100 or would you have rather sold the same item for $10 but have sold 100,000 of them? So again, who cares what the "perceived" value is, why would a publisher want to make less money and have less readers, I don't get? As a sidebar, I work in the business, the people (indie writers) who make 6 and 7 figures a year put their books into Kindle Unlimited, which means people read their books for essentially free (they pay a single fee per month, about 12 bucks since the recent price increase). So, again, would you rather sell your book for $100 a copy (or $49.99) and sell, let's be generous and say a thousand copies, so grossing $100,000) OR would you rather allow the book to be read in a program that paid you a million dollars? 100K is less than one million, so the answer is obvious unless you hate money, which, if that's the case, why not give the book away free? At least in digital form. Anyway, I'm just curious as I can't figure out the reason here...honestly, if I needed this book for school, I'd probably pirate it, I mean, if I was in my 20s....that's what I'm told happens....I guess maybe the rental thing works, but $17 to rent a book? When normal ebooks go for $9.99 or less usually? It's just weird

[@michaelsbeverly]

Well, thinking about it, maybe I'm wrong and the book wouldn't sell as a "popular" book and by having a high price and being a text book, it makes more money by virtue of the fact the demand is inelastic.... Strange...well, anyway, maybe someday you'll do a popular version, I'd like to read that book, but I'm not a student nor a billionare, so no $50 books in my future. Sadly.

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

@@michaelsbeverly I heartily agree with you.. I have begun outlining a book.. the sort of book you suggest there. Routledge did not anticipate the book becoming so “famous” and popular. Most academic monographs in the serious are primarily just sold to libraries. So, they print perhaps a thousand and that price ends up yielding for them a modest profit (and sometimes not even that!). They pay me perhaps 75 cents per copy. So, I am not getting rich on this ..lol.. Thanks for your feedback though.. encourages me to get writing that second book!

[@michaelsbeverly]

@@RichardMiller-ym5jc No worries, I was hoping I didn't sound like a jerk. My company is called Adverley, you can feel free to send me any questions you have about indie publishing, I've been around since about 2015, and have had more than a handful of millionaire earning clients. It's crazy you would only make around $750 for writing a book that was well received, my third indie novel was a total failure, but in a hot genre, and it earned 5K n the first month....just luck there, mostly, but you can plan out a way to earn decently if you write in a niche with eager readers and market to them appropriately. Anyway, not trying to sell you anything, most of our clients are fiction writers with 10-20 novels in commerical genres, but the overall lessons apply, and how the game on Zon is played (brutally, but you can profit a lot with the right line). All that said, if you have the desire to secretly write paranormal Why-Choose? dirty romance (basically reverse harem graphic romance) I can explain how you could be making five figures a month...hahaha...if you can stomach it and have some money for promotion. It's a sad world we live in, but that's how it works...

[@henryschmit3340]

"...early Christians would have understood the Ressurection as fictitious..." Nonsense. You cannot have faith in something you don't believe in. No one is gets willingly martyred for something they don't believe or have fath in. There is nothing in the scriptures that says the ressurection is fictitious.

[@richardmiller5324]

Hi Henry.. The very notion of legend, sacred myth, and folk-belief across all times, societies, and cultures, has been willful indulgence of the mind in the fantastical. If the resurrection tale were to have been a hard literalistic / ontological reality for the earliest Christians (and we see only evidence to the contrary) then that tale would become the one exception across the countless mythsystems, tales, and cults in all human history. We have no accounts that I have seen of any early Christian martyr claiming that their confidence in the historical reality of the resurrection story was what compelled them toward martyrdom. In fact, we are hard-pressed to find any early Christian text that endeavored anything resembling a historiological argument or case for the resurrection narrative. If that was their linchpin idea, then why didn't they routinely support it with historical argumentation? I would have expected that to have been their constant concern, particularly given the realities of cultic translated resurrection legends such as what I outline in my research. They would have needed to work overtime at distinguishing their cultic accounts from others on historical grounds, which was the opposite of what we find (e.g. Justin, 1 Apol 21). As with non-Christian martyrs, early Christian martyrs died as cultural spectacles to demonstrate their philosophical devotion. Martyrdom was for them the supreme manifestation of ascetical piety. Modern religionists do not comprehend this just as they do not comprehend the many other radical ascetical acts of early Christians (self-emaciation, genital removal, living in caves, eating bugs, etc). As with ascesis, stunts of martyrdom are all but utterly alien to modern practitioners. Returning to the notion of myth, the ancients used indulgence in myth as a cultic strategy to model and inspire cultic practice and devotion. Perhaps, Henry, you have never been part of another religion.. I have.. and this is the common way. Despite what you and other apologists for modern faith would hope to find there, the religion presented a belief system, not a historical reality system. Throughout the accounts we find, they wanted to die "like Jesus" (and the patriarchs), not "for Jesus" or for any other matter of historical certitude regarding such fantastic claims.

[@henryschmit3340]

@@richardmiller5324 "(and we see only evidence to the contrary)" Maybe there is evidence other than what you can see. A recent article at the very good creation site CMI, 'Strong evidence that the New Testament is true' shows evidence contrary to your view. And your definition of 'Christian' is a bit imprecise too. Not everyone that calls themselves 'Christian', or is labeled 'Christian' is actually a Biblical Christian. "..not a historical reality system." History itself says otherwise.

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

@@henryschmit3340 There will always be faith-motivated individuals who foist on the general public false evidence to help prop up the religion. When I say “we” I mean actual qualified research historians, not pastors, theologians, apologists, or religionist hobbyists. Every religion and civilization has those characters and a gullible public ready to buy their books and pay their income to tell them what they want to hear.

[@henryschmit3340]

@@RichardMiller-ym5jc A lot of projection going on there. Your bluffing won't work on me. But, another good article that you might learn something from -- from the same creation site (CMI), titled 'What's wrong with Bishop Spong' shows that your arguments are nothing new, and have already long been refuted.

[@wilsophilip1]

@@richardmiller5324 did you ever read 1 Corinthians 15??? 🙂

[@jamesklein1278]

EYEWITNESSES and biblical reality. 12 men layed down there lives for the truth that Jesus had risen from the dead. Its not up for debate. Dr. Miller or Dr. Wright... I go with fact not fables

[@RichardMiller-ym5jc]

Where did you ever get the idea that “12 men laid down their lives for the truth that Jesus had risen from the dead”? We do not have the slightest evidence that was true of even one of them. Deaths of the 12 Disciples Judas Iscariot - suicide by hanging John died of old age Peter crucified as criminal leader of the group responsible for burning down over half of the city of Rome. (Paul also) Andrew - no reliable sources. Eus says Acts of Andrew is not credible Thomas - no reliable sources. Death unknown by Eusebius and no legends until mid-fourth century Philip - no reliable sources. Acts of Philip late fourth century legends Matthew died of natural causes Bartholomew - no reliable accounts James the Lesser - unknown cause of death Simon the Zealot - unknown cause of death Matthais - unknown cause of death James the Greater - Herod Agrippa had him executed by the sword as leader of a group disturbing the religious establishment, threatening the temple, insulting the cult leaders.. following Stephen

[@AlexADalton]

Good lord. Every generation has its paralellomaniacs.

[@mondayschool]

yes true, but don't forget all the parallelaphobiacs

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

Can you explain why Jesus was a failed apocalyptic preacher that didn't fulfill the requirements of the Messiah according to Jewish scripture? --‐------------------------------------------------------ "Many passages attributed to Jesus have him predicting the end *within his generation* (“the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent and believe the good news” (Mark 1:15); *“this generation will not pass away* until all these things take place” (Mark 13:30); *“truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes”* (Matthew 10:23); “Truly I say to you, *there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death* until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.” (Mark 9:1); "From now on, you shall see the *Son of Man* coming in the clouds..." (Matthew 26:64))." Jesus as a failed apocalyptic prophet is the general consensus of critical scholarship, *even critical Christian scholars* like Dale Allison. The Son of Man (Jesus himself?) was supposed to be an end of the world arbiter, as Bart Ehrman points out in his lecture referenced below, and as the Bible states he was supposed to come *within the lifetime* of Jesus’s followers. *It didn't happen.* Read the article from the former Christian apologist and Tim O'Neill (former Christian), who has been studying the scholarship and history for decades, referenced below as well. *Jesus falsely prophesied his return in the 1st century* “Truly I say to you, ***you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes”*** (Matthew 10:23); For the *Son of man* shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.*** Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the *Son of Man* coming in his kingdom Matthew 16:27-28 Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here*** will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God Luke 9:27 Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened Mark 13:30 The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. Then will appear the sign of the *Son of Man* in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the *Son of Man* coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened Matthew 24:29-34 There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the *Son of Man* coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. When you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened Luke 21:25-32 *Jesus promised to return over 2, 000 years ago and he still hasn’t.* Jesus and the angels never appeared from Heaven, the stars never fell from the sky, none of these things happened. Nothing he prophesied happened. ***Apologists can try to spin this, but the simple fact is that Jesus was either wrong or misquoted.*** According to the Bible that makes Jesus a false prophet or misquoted (and if Jesus is misquoted than the Bible is not inerrant or the word of God) How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord? If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken Deuteronomy 18:21-22 *Jesus falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin* Jesus also falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin (assemblies of either twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal) You will see the *Son of Man* sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and ***coming on the clouds of heaven*** Matthew 26:64 Mark 14:62 Except the high priest and the Sanhedrin never saw Jesus sitting at the right hand side of God, or coming on the clouds of heaven, or any such thing. *Jesus falsely prophesied to Nathaniel* Jesus also falsely prophesied to Nathanael when he declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.” Jesus said, You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that. He then added, ***“Very truly I tell you, you will see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man*** John 1:50-51 *Nathanael never saw any such thing. Neither did anyone else.* *"13x Jesus was wrong in the Bible - Life Lessons"* The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. *Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do:* He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6-7; 11:7-12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises-for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing- *Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome.* Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, *making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews.* (1 Cor.1:23) Watch *Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet, Historical Lecture - Bart D. Ehrman* ------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, look up the following. *"End Times - Evil Bible .com"* *"The End of All Things is At Hand - The Church Of Truth"* *"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"* *"ex-apologist: Notes: Assessing The Case for an Apocalyptic Jesus in Ehrman’s Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium"* *"Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet - History for Atheists"* (Tim O'Neill is a former Christian and is familiar with most of the Biblical scholarship. He's been studying the scholarship and history for decades) *"Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return - Black Nonbelievers, Inc."* Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity. *“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress *"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53 *"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"* *"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*

[@AlexADalton]

@@mondayschool I won't forget the overwhelming majority of critical scholars.

[@decades5643]

"muh parallelomania" Humans are influenced by their surroundings so it's completely rational and logical to look for influences coming from Greco-Roman culture... you know, the very culture early Christians and Jews were part of! To think Christianity is 100% Jewish isn't accepted by most scholars anymore. The Jewish-Hellenism divide is no longer accepted. Their texts are written in Greek by Hellenized Jews so of course they are going to be influenced by other divine humans and deities. That's just how reality works. Only in the fantasy world that you seem to reside in do Jews have miraculous forcefields that protect them from being influenced by their surroundings. Luckily people with your views are starting to not be taken seriously anymore. You live in the Twilight Zone and can't be taken seriously.

[@AlexADalton]

@@decades5643 huge distance from the Hellenization of Judaism to direct claims of borrowing. The former everyone accepts, the latter requires much more than listing off vague parallels.

[@cliffmays442]

Not original? This is not original! Why would this surprise anyone ? Written in Koine Greek? That was the language of the Helenistic word, the international market place language language. In our world if you are flying a plane internationally you will talk to the tower in English no matter where in the world you are. Even the Old Testament was written in Greek. That was the universal languange. Also why would the Romans invent a relligion to lead people away from Roman worship? Why else would the Romans try so hard to stop the Christian movement? This would be like the Nazi party under Hitler wrote the.

[@YECBIB]

Jesus anything is not mythology. 💯✝️

[@mwola]

Concerning Gospels;.They were written before 40 AD...only book of ACTS of Apostles is written in 55 AD by TRUE EYEWITNESS who were the on ground

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

Yeah, no. The earliest gospel "Mark" was written about 70 A.D. They are not eyewitness accounts. -------------‐------------------------------------------- *"Neither the evangelists nor their first readers engaged in historical analysis. Their aim was to confirm Christian faith (Lk. 1.4; Jn. 20.31). Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings.* Unfortunately, much of the general public is not familiar with scholarly resources like the one quoted above; instead, Christian apologists often put out a lot of material, such as The Case For Christ, targeted toward lay audiences, who are not familiar with scholarly methods, in order to argue that the Gospels are the eyewitness testimonies of either Jesus’ disciples or their attendants. *The mainstream scholarly view is that the Gospels are anonymous works, written in a different language than that of Jesus, in distant lands, after a substantial gap of time, by unknown persons, compiling, redacting, and inventing various traditions, in order to provide a narrative of Christianity’s central figure-Jesus Christ-to confirm the faith of their communities."* *As scholarly sources like the Oxford Annotated Bible note, the Gospels are not historical works (even if they contain some historical kernels).* *"Majority of Scholars agree: The Gospels were not written by Eyewitnesses - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* Also, look up: *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"* *"When Were the Gospels Written and How Can We Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"How Did The Gospel Writers Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Yes, the Four Gospels Were Originally Anonymous: Part 1 - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Are Stories in the Bible Influenced by Popular Greco-Roman Literature? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Gospels Not Written By Matthew, Mark, Luke or John - The Church Of Truth"* *"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53 *"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"* *"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*

[@joshkrause2977]

There is no evidence of that, speculation isn’t truth. Poor uneducated fishermen who spoke Aramaic didn’t write gospels in Greek…..They are not even written as a first has account, remember High School English courses????? They are written as second and third hand accounts. Where in the gospels does anyone say Jesus the apostles and I walked to (insert location)?????

[@mwola]

@joshkrause2977 Yu understand one thing: Holy SCRIPTURE from Holy TANACH to Gospels are written in Codes: Example is Jews and Historians have been writing that CYRUS THE GREAT..550-530BC Existed...but this CYRUS has never Existed though God cannot lie... I understand HAM is not a SON of NOAH but those who don't know even Hebrew SCRIPTURE, are the first to blindly oppose The Gospels. Gospel of MATTHEW is written by LEVI Surnamed MATTHEW...book of MARK 2:14 Read book of MATTHEW 9:9 A TRUE EYE WITNESS. Many Christian Scholars have left Christianity coz they thought having gone to Havard is knowing Hebrew Holy SCRIPTURE!!! But a lie. Let me SHOCK you! Book of JOHN is written by Apostles JAMES and JOHN the two Sons of ZEBEDEE....there is no Christian Scholar...Jewish Scholar..or Atheist who has broken this CODE: understand that is why prophet DANIEL...JOSEPH even High Priest EZRA ...they said to KINGS that there is God who reveals secrets in Heaven.. Book of LUKE is addressed to Theophellous....same book of ACTS but written by different two Apostles. My Question is if today is 2023...And no Jewish Rabbi...or Scholar..even Christian Scholar. who haven't known that CYRUS the great never Existed; How can they understand the Gospels??? Worship Christ Our Father of Knowledge

[@call_me-jo]

i cant appreciate how much your videos have helped me .. i would really appreciate it if you put an email Id to contact you... thank you so much for your hard work