The Wasted Potential of Bioshock Infinite

When I think "wasted potential", Bioshock Infinite is one of the first games to pop to mind.
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Bioshock Infinite is a jumbled mess of ideas from a game that had a long development cycle that promised so much more than what was released. While that is common, the sheer difference in what was shown prior to launch is staggering.
Bioshock Infinite has a fascinating setting with incredible art direction and atmosphere. It has great worldbuilding and makes use of a unique timeframe not often seen in games.
And yet, the ho-hum shooter gameplay of Bioshock Infinite is a few steps back from the first Bioshock, and a major step back from what Bioshock 2 did with its gameplay.
Bioshock Infinite has some interesting subject matter, but it doesn't know what to say about it. It lacks the focus that Bioshock did with its subject matter.
Toss in the concept of multiverses and you end up with a plot that's a jumbled mess. The more you think about it, the more Bioshock Infinite starts to fall apart. The promise that Columbia shows gets swept away in the second half to focus on this idea of multiverses.
This Bioshock Infinite review/analysis/retrospective/critique will look at the making of Bioshock Infinite, the themes, combat, Elizabeth, the plot, the ending, what Bioshock 2 did better, and what happened during the development.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Prelude
04:49 - Intro of Bioshock Infinite
06:35 - Columbia
08:05 - The Fair & Walking Simulator
11:19 - The Red Flags Emerge
13:03 - Combat in Bioshock Infinite
17:05 - Elizabeth
21:38 - What Bioshock Infinite could have been
23:43 - Booker, Slate, Hall of Heroes
26:17 - Vox Populi, Tears, & Plot Collapse
31:22 - Downtown Emporia & Lady Comstock
33:50 - Songbird
34:32 - Our Lady Elizabeth
36:27 - The Final Stretch
38:25 - The Ending
44:02 - Bioshock 2 Did It Better
47:45 - What Happened During Development on Bioshock Infinite?
53:50 - In Conclusion
• www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
• www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...
• kotaku.com/the-real-stories-b...
• www.polygon.com/2021/5/10/224...
• www.polygon.com/2013/2/18/399...
• www.polygon.com/2014/3/6/5474...
• www.vg247.com/2013/11/12/clou...
• web.archive.org/web/201008152...
• web.archive.org/web/201707191...
Additional Footage::
• Behind The Scenes of Bioshock Infinite: • BioShock Infinite: The...
• Bioshock Infinite 2010 Footage: • BioShock Infinite Game...
• Bioshock Infinite Cut Content: • BioShock Infinite Spac...
• Bioshock Infinite E3 2011 Footage: • BioShock: Infinite E3 ...
• BioShock: Infinite: The People Behind Booker and Elizabeth: • BioShock: Infinite: Th...
• Creepy Watson: • Creepy Watson
• Day's Gone: • DAYS GONE - THE WEDDIN...
• Evolution of Bioshock Infinite: • Video
• Fallout: New Vegas: • Joshua Graham on The N...
• Resident Evil 4 2003 E3: • Resident Evil 3.5 - Ga...
• Spore: • Will Wright GDC 2005 S...
• System Shock 2: • System Shock 2 (1999) ...
• Watch Dogs: • 11. Watch Dogs Ubisoft...
#bioshock #bioshockinfinite #boulderpunch

[@BoulderPunch]

Support the channel to its (not wasted) potential: • www.patreon.com/boulderpunch Get featured in the credits, get access to videos early, and receive updates of what I'm working on. • Get Bioshock Infinite on GOG (Affiliate): bit.ly/boulderpunchbioshockinfinite Related Videos & Playlists: • Bioshock Playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PL9iyzUyf92M_AEx3Ijo40tQcQZctzO1PK • Bioshock Review: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m53PmXuqlpesetE • Bioshock 2 Review: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqLOaoZ9mamMkKs&t • Bioshock Infinite: Burial at Sea Review: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGnaYqF7lKmig8k • Minerva's Den DLC Review: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3OZYXR4j6eZb7s • The Lost (Irrational's Cancelled Game): kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHTdkqGIjcSGiLs&t • System Shock Playlist: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHWxh5iDlJibprs

[@rasheedfraser5680]

Can you do Last of us

[@bigjack3722]

A open world bioshock on one of the ground level cities where we work undercover agent would be a nice change of pace and would add a lot of depth to the story by allowing us see different sides of the universe.

[@IndoorSunset]

Don't mean to be a prude, but it was the dude from Dishonored 2 not the dude from Thief that was Booker's original voice. They sound different.

[@fumarc4501]

I like the idea of protecting or not protecting Elizabeth would have made for a cool game mechanic. Her becoming more powerful, but less supportive to the player, or gaining new helpful abilities to the player, but being less damage dealing herself.

[@Soccercrazyigboman]

When can we expect burial at sea review?

[@duckcluck123]

Despite being a walking simulator, the whole first part of the game up until the first combat sequence is one of my all-time favorite moments in video games. I love everything about it.

[@familialdysautosis2717]

Easily. I often just play that section 🤣

[@pilouuuu]

Exactly. I went downhill after that, becoming just an average FPS.

[@duckcluck123]

@@pilouuuu I don't agree with that. The vigors are fun and I really love the Booker and Elizabeth dynamic. And the whole world itself is just so cool and unique

[@SilverGeFer]

@@pilouuuu This might be a controversial opinion among the Bioshock community, but being new to the games and having played through all of them recently (except 2, just really couldn’t get into it), I found Infinite to be my favourite by far. I actually found it much more engaging than the two previous ones mainly because of the sky hook and tears mechanics. The combat just flowed so well in the game and was definitely one of the most fun FPS shooters I’ve ever played. Plus, as someone mentioned above, I also loved the dynamic of Booker and Elizabeth’s duo. Plus, going back to Rapture in the Burial at Sea DLC was the cherry on top.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

@@SilverGeFer I will definitely agree that the combat felt more polished than the 1st two Bioshocks. However, I REALLY wish the main game had a weapon wheel. The 2-weapon limit was pretty needless. Just having to choose between blue & red weapon variants would've been enough. The 8 weapon types on the wheel could've been: 1. Pistol 2. Hand Cannon 3. Sniper Rifle 4. Shotgun / Heater 5. Carbine / Burstgun 6. Machine Gun / Repeater 7. Volley Gun / Hail Fire 8. RPG Just design the game so that we don't drown in ammo and certain areas only have certain ammo types present.

[@huntclanhunt9697]

I think killing Booker was stupid. He was the only version of Booker to learn from his mistakes.

[@shiitagi]

Aaand that's the problem with how they play with the concept of multiple timelines and "time travel". Since all Bookers need to die to rid the multiverse of Booker, he had to die. Elizabeth kind of imply that our Booker is the last Booker in every timeline, and that's why he has to die. To close the loop. Unless he died, the loop will never close, and there will always another Booker that turned and became Comstock. So in a way, the death of all Bookers, will make sure that no Comstock will ever be "born". Yet we don't see any proof that killing our Booker, the so called last Booker, will not let the already existing Comstocks to stay alive. It's all just Elizabeth's saying this and that. And thus, a loophole in the story was born. It's convoluted, with no real ending, offering no catharsis for the players that went through all of the trials.

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

@@shiitagi it’s why when you make multiverse or time travel you have to think about carefully. Time travel is it a closed loop where literally nothing you do matter because it’s all predetermined. If it’s not meaning you can change it does it create a new timeline or does your current one is the only one that changes.

[@shiitagi]

@@starless267 Aaand, that doesn't explain why she killed OUR Booker. He didn't get baptised, he specifically chose to run away from it, that's why he is Booker, not Comstock. They are saying that the baptised Bookers were reborn, and became Comstock. And again, thus, the plot hole. The story is way convoluted, we don't have to try and entangle it, I mean even the developers doesn't seem to care to right the wrongs of Infinite, why should we? We are allowed to like things we like, doesn't mean all the things we like have to be masterpieces. Some times, it's okay to prefer stale bread over fresh bread Heck, I like the crust of baked goods.

[@huntclanhunt9697]

@@starless267 She could have gone and injured him right before Wounded knee. Then he'd never have had all that guilt.

[@huntclanhunt9697]

@@starless267 Why kill? Kneecap him. Problem solved. He's sidelined for the battle. Or even get him knocked out drunk. Or make his horse fall on him. Or get him sick. Just make him not able to fight there.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

A shame "Press A to Euthanize Horse" didn't become the original "Press F to Pay Respects."

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

press H to h0rse around

[@lomborg4876]

In another reality ;)

[@rouge939]

Yeah I agree I dont get why Infinite gets a pass for these blatant button prompts

[@llewelynshingler2173]

​@@rouge939 Seems that everyone was distracted by the "Quantum" stuff and Multiversal Glurge.

[@commisaryarreck3974]

@@PancakemonsterFO4 h0rs3 around? You filthy degenerate ;3

[@Ronam0451]

It's great to see Bioshock 2 getting the love it deserves

[@INFILTR8US]

My personal favorite in the series.

[@aleisinwndrlen7113]

@@INFILTR8US I agree. Even better with Minerva's Den. Possibly one of the best DLCs ever made.

[@Ronam0451]

@@INFILTR8US mine as well

[@Jack-dj5cd]

Best bioshock

[@Mandalore_ultimate]

Best gameplay and it tied up Rapture perfectly

[@harmany08]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the abuse of the term "bullet sponge". No new enemies toward the end, but suddenly you can empty a full extended machine gun mag into guys and they don't drop

[@aleisinwndrlen7113]

My God now that I think about it again, you’re absolutely right. For instance, compared to Bioshock 2, during the last few hours or so, you’d encounter more and more of the ‘elite’ variants of the enemies, fighting more of those Alpha series and brute splicers. They don’t do that with Infinite. You’re just running around killing all these basic enemies that you encounter at the beginning of the game, but they’re juiced up a lot more for some reason.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@@aleisinwndrlen7113 try fighting handymen on hard difficulties. There has never been a more annoying bullet sponge

[@engineergaming1669]

@@bipstymcbipste5641 at least the handymen being tanky makes sense, why is some guy with a rocket launcher eating all my ammo and surviving

[@christiangottsacker6932]

You gotta switch your clothes often. Pick the shirt or whatever that lets you knock ppl over, and just mess up the armoured guys on the floor lol

[@asdasede3491]

@@bipstymcbipste5641 never felt that handymen or any other heavy enemy was annoying, the annoying part is that every enemy is a bullet sponge by the end.

[@nichmcintosh2699]

i can never forget seeing the trailer for infinite the first time, the scene where he’s thrown from the city and saved by elizabeth using the roses before she’s taken really grabbed my attention. as someone who had been aware of the bioshock series and the accolades it had gathered but never actually played it i found it intriguing, especially after seeing the gameplay where she conjures the storm to amplify the lightning?? i was hooked. THEN i bought the game, and was more than a little disappointed. it still got me to play the first two and i fell in love with the series like i haven’t with any other. i’m glad they still managed to get it out the door with characters i love but there was so much potential for a more engaging story and gameplay

[@thisbubblygoodness7611]

i enjoyed the end result of Bioshock infinite but i absolutely agree 100%, in the first teaser trailer for Bioshock there's some kind of 'gothic' feel to Columbia that the final game was missing, this weird vibe of uncertainty was actually very close to how Rapture felt too it was also like this in the 2010 demo, sad we never got that stuff

[@nichmcintosh2699]

@@thisbubblygoodness7611 i enjoy the ending too actually, that’s what’s frustrating to me!! like i said earlier though, as much as i loved the game i got i still find myself stuck on what could have been that feeling you’re talking about with the style being more gothic i would 100% agree with. a slightly more abrasive, menacing columbia. more grounded in bioshocks initial world. i went in expecting an entirely different game, and after finishing the game i got i was left wanting more!

[@fumarc4501]

I had hoped those “twins” would have been the secret enemies or antagonists.

[@satsubatsu347]

@@thisbubblygoodness7611 You mean "Edwardian" feel.

[@LeeSixTwenty]

​​@@thisbubblygoodness7611I also enjoyed Infinite, but compared to the beta trailers. the game felt undercooked. Doesn't help with the amount of content that was cut. I remember reading that final story was rushed due to lack of development time. I doubt we'll ever get a directors cut, but maybe one day we could see the beta version of the game leaked like DNF 2001.

[@SammEater]

The biggest letdown to me were the devs dropping the whole verticality combat of the E32011 Demo to a more corridor based shooter. None of that rollercoaster feeling of the skyrails is in the final game aside from small sections.

[@JacobOnodera]

dude i feel the same why. it kinda reminds me if youve seen avatar the last airbender in the 5th episode they go to this city that has a mail and transportation system like it and its fully realized and the skyline system in that 2011 demo was completely realized as that more than the final game ever was sadly. a transportation system that could ne used anytime in combat for verticality scale transportation and combat that made sense to the world it was beautiful to see in that demo and i was obsessed with it back in high school after i finished infinite i just wanted more of columbia and i wanted to play in THAT columbia to get that roller coaster feel like ken described.

[@have_a_good_day420]

I so badly just want an entire game of just shooting and skyrails.

[@spouwnerring]

There is a plot-hole in this game (there are multiple but I'm going to talk about 1). So when the Booker and Elizabeth we follow enter the timeline where the Vox Pupuly got there weapons and began their revolution, the Booker in that timeline died. The reason why he's dead is because the Elizabeth from THAT timeline got moved from Monument Island to Comstock House before he could rescue her. He was forced to join the Vox in order to reach her, but died in battle. However when OUR Booker and Elizabeth enter, the Elizabeth from THAT timeline is no where to be found. And you know what would have cool, having Songbird be the penultimate boss and having a fully brainwashed and fully juiced up Elizabeth be the final boss of the game.

[@danielawesome36]

Now _this_ is wasted potential.

[@GodOfOrphans]

That sounds like a damned good finale.

[@MiniTick]

Please no "juiced up" final boss again, after how terrible BioShock 1 ended with that. The "boss fight" against Lady Comstock nearly made me stop playing it completely the first time because it was so damn tedious and un-fun. Last thing this game needs is another one.

[@GodOfOrphans]

@@MiniTick You can use Shock Jockey and Devils kiss to vaporize corpses so she can't reanimate them. It doesn't make the boss tolerable by any means it's still an absolute POS and one of the worst bosses I have ever had the displeasure of facing but it's slightly less than Cenobite level torture once you know that trick, in case you ever decide to replay the game for whatever reason.

[@spouwnerring]

@@MiniTick It's all about execution. Fontaine and Lady Comstock could have worked if the devs had put more thought into designing the fights. Besides, with Elizabeth, you can get a lot more creative, because of her tear powers.

[@3max_well376]

The boys of silence look the way they do for a reason. They were planned to be a very different kind of enemy than the ones we got in the final product. They were completely blind. They relied on the trumpet-like things on the sides of their helmets to enhance their hearing. You had to be stealthy around them, because they were sensitive to even the softest of noises. If you were spotted, they’d scream and alert everyone of your presence. In the final game, their only way of detecting booker is to see him. It doesn’t matter how much noise you make around them, because they won’t notice you unless you’re in their line of sight. …But now the character design doesn’t make much sense. Let me explain: Why would an enemy based around SIGHT not have eye holes in its helmet? What’s the point of those hearing-enhancing cones on the sides of it’s helmet if it can’t hear you anyway? My theory is that they liked the cool enemy design, and even though the enemy’s role changed drastically throughout development, they didn’t want to alter how it looked. I think it’s a shame, though. Side note, I completely agree that the noise they originally made was way cooler. It sounded more like a siren, which I think fits better, considering their job is to alert others of your presence. Their new scream is really creepy, but I think the older one is way more chilling.

[@caldw615]

I figured the cone was changed to be more like an air raid siren since the sounds they make when they scream sounds very similar to one even in the early footage of the game. Plus I figured the light they use isn't just to be a visual indicator to players but a wavelength that gets blocked when it looks at organic life. They don't actually "see" but they get the sensation the light is blocked by something and thst sets them off.

[@christopherfleetwood5252]

I feel like the player character should have had their ears ringing or their hearing muffled or something after the screaming stopped, would have made it more impactful.

[@Laws2]

the original sirenhead

[@Modie]

Sounds like they implemented that in the 2nd DLC then. The Splicers with the boxes on their head had a really bad sight. If you weren't directly in front of them, they wouldn't see you. And they also implemented glass and all that stuff that makes more noise.

[@Kudo716]

Even with the issues this game has, that whole intro sequence, right up to when the voice says "Hallelujah" and the old timey piano starts up, that right there is what made me fall in love with it despite it's shortcomings.

[@AdrianArmbruster]

I feel like, plot wise, it paradoxically delves too much into multiverse shenanigans to the point where you can't really have consistent character arcs (as they're not the 'same' characters in the universe you end up in as the one you first met them) while it also doesn't delve into multiverse-sliding enough to make it truly unforgettable. With Burial at Sea largely wrapping up both Columbia and Rapture's stories and killing off every character with any development, the one lasting component Infinite really brings to the franchise is the 'man-tower-city mythos' that will presumably be utilized in Bioshock 4. It really does allow for nearly infinite (heh) possible permutations that way.

[@alwaysangry2232]

basically making everthing pointless, a last insult to the players, glad never played the dlc

[@SammEater]

It's like Ken Levine knew he was gonna be fired and wanted to burn the Bioshock franchise to the ground so that no one else would play with his toy.

[@engineergaming1669]

@@alwaysangry2232 the dlc is fun but it really ruins the story

[@Milk_Man990]

Not sure if there would be a 4 given how long it's been. Wish there would be

[@toasterroast7678]

@@Milk_Man990 its been confirmed. a different team is working on it.

[@SaiScribbles]

The Luteces were completely wasted on this game. They're characters I still think about today. Them and Daisy, who also got shafted by the plot.

[@GeorgeMonet]

I hated them. They were so stupid and contrary to the needs and direction of the primary plot. They were the writer claiming they were smarter than you but constantly proving they were more stupid than you as you could easily disprove everything they said.

[@SaiScribbles]

@@GeorgeMonet That's fair, because the plot just wasn't very good to begin with. But as characters, as a concept, and the way their actors perform them I love them.

[@AMV_KINGDOM_mv]

@@GeorgeMonet I don't actually believe that I just belief they spoke in riddles tbh

[@trustytrest]

@@GeorgeMonet agreed. They could have been removed from the game and I wouldnt have felt anything was missing. I rolled my eyes any time I saw them

[@hyenagore2982]

@@trustytrest rosalies tapes do a whole lot of explaining about the lore tho

[@JobeStroud]

The thing I remember most about this game is "Booker Catch!"

[@Commanderziff]

The stuff with Booker disparaging Daisy felt like something that was leftover from an earlier version of the story, where Daisy and Booker knew each other from before Columbia. During one of the loading screens there's a written quote from Booker about not trusting Daisy because: "Once a welsher, always a welsher." At this point the only thing you really know about Daisy is that she leads the resistance against a racist tyrant, so it feels like a leftover story point that they were too lazy to go in and remove. I'll bet during an earlier build they had some kind of history, where she screwed Booker over, and he holds a grudge. The tear jumps feel like places the story could have gone based on choices you made, but they ran out of time, so they shrugged, stitched together the scenes they had "kinda finished" and called it a game. Also the bit after the first jump, where the people you killed in the last word "remember being dead" and it paralyzes them... if we're talking Infinite worlds, then everyone should be like that. Everyone would be dead SOMEWHERE. The first tear jump is definitely where the story collapses in on itself. Just because the gunsmith isn't sitting dead in that chair in another universe doesn't mean that he must be alive there. He could have never existed at all there. Even if he does exist there, and on Columbia, and he's the gunsmith, AND he's willing to help you... you also have to hope that there's a Vox in this Columbia, AND there's a Daisy Fitzroy who's in charge of it, AND that this Daisy Fitzroy is willing to take your word for it that an alternate universe version of her made an agreement with you, AND she's willing to honor that agreement... and she's in any position to do so. Of course, once you're in the alternate universe why the hell do you need to worry about your debts anymore? Your creditors are in another universe, they can't follow you. Forget the whole thing, and build a new life with Elizabeth. As long as you don't start shooting at the guards, they have no reason to come after you, you haven't done anything in this universe yet. Their Elizabeth isn't missing. At the ending, I keep wondering where all of the other Elizabeth's are, the ones who would want to stop you. Given that there are INFINITE worlds and possibilities, that would mean that there would also be an infinite number of worlds where Comstock is a good guy. Where he realizes the error of his ways, and turns Colombia into a beacon of harmony and tolerance. An infinite number of worlds where he marries Daisy Fitzroy and they have kids, and he helps Elizabeth learn to use her powers to help people. Where are all of the Elizabeth's from those universes telling them that your worlds may suck, but ours are better with Comstock. Don't destroy our worlds, fix your own. Bioshock Infinite is one of those games where the creator was trying so hard to be clever that he managed to outsmart himself.

[@markbrooks8623]

Agreed. The storyline was actually awful and contrived. The choices were arbitrary. The plot didn't make sense on its own terms.

[@Commanderziff]

@@markbrooks8623 The choices are one of the game mechanics that they seem to have abandoned. About a quarter of the way through the game they disappear altogether, and the ones you do make never come back again, they're just aesthetics. It seems like another one of those things that they started out with, but then ran out of time, and were too lazy to go in and remove.

[@5liter47]

I used to feel like I was crazy back when this game came out, especially in regards to the universe-jumping thing. All my friends told me I was "overthinking it" when I got irritated by the "back at the shop!" scene. I was already annoyed by the first jump, and that scene nearly drove me over the edge. Um, no, Booker/Liz...just because you don't see the tools through that tear does NOT mean they will be "back at the shop," let alone even exist in that universe. Having a cute little moment where you synced up your sentences doesn't make it true, either. Even back then, I *knew* the writers just put that bit in to distract the audience from how little sense the scene makes, which made it even more frustrating for me. "Bioshock Infinite is one of those games where the creator was trying so hard to be clever that he managed to outsmart himself." Couldn't have said it better myself. On a sorta-related note, I'm hoping that Bioshock 4 takes the Bioshock 2 approach, with a small, focused story and tight, refined gameplay. However, I'm worried that with critics and KZbin reaction people responding so strongly to the "le epic twists" in Bioshock 1 and Infinite, the series will get pigeonholed as "the FPS series with interesting settings and le epic twists at/near the end" and never be allowed to grow past that. 'Cuz hey, as long as the game has a big "whoooaaa, dude, my mind's been bloooown" moment at some point, who cares if the gameplay is subpar or the rest of the story is held together with Scotch Tape? Anyway, ramble over (for now). I just love Bioshock 1 & 2 and want the series to be good. It has amazing potential, but that potential will never be reached if it rests on its laurels and just becomes the "le epic twist" series.

[@andrewdriver3318]

The biggest let down was the end. They drown you to keep you from becoming Comstock, thus also preventing Columbia and the entire plotline. As far as storyteling goes, that isin't the resolution of a conflict, that is the opposite. "Ok, I guess none of that happened then.." That scene just made the entire game feel pointless. The ultimate world-breaking thing you can do is literally erase that world at the conclusion.

[@SammEater]

That explains a lot about Shantytown, I heard it got scrapped only to be put back into the game because the map was already finished and they were running out of time and money to make something else for that section of the game. Also, Emporia is pretty much a leftover from when Infinite was supposed to be a bigger more open level world.

[@orangesoda4535]

Its always puzzled me how people referred to infinite as a masterpiece. Always felt like it got carried by the hype train and people who've never heard of multiverses before.

[@snoot6629]

yeahhh , the plot just came out of nowhere at the end for me , it just didn't stick for me , gun play was annoying at times too since you can only carry 2 guns which defeats the purpose of the gun upgrade system , pistol and rifle are fun to use tho

[@TheReZisTLust]

Like being locked up reading for instance, doesnt mean you become a pro.

[@Wiggimus]

Yeah, I remember this game getting praised with perfect scores all across the board. Yet when I played it, I experienced a 6 out of 10 game at best. I thought that the story just dissolved after a certain point and that Rapture was just shoehorned into the end super awkwardly.

[@aleisinwndrlen7113]

@@Wiggimus And they made the “connection” with Rapture even more awkward with Burial at Sea. I’ve seen quite a lot of fans that were confused by the direction of the dlc. Which definitely says something considering Infinite was still VERY highly praised at the time.

[@calebh373]

I played it well after the hype train and wound up really liking it.

[@Tosnoob]

I'm glad we're finally able to talk about the flaws of Infinite after everything being drowned out by the endless praise it got on release.

[@aniki6575]

Sarcasm?

[@affable8696]

@@aniki6575 Why sarcasm? Infinite is a genuinely shit game that got praised to high heaven because it rode on the reputation of its predecessors.

[@shawklan27]

@@affable8696 ok

[@Tosnoob]

@@affable8696 I wouldn't go that far either.

[@affable8696]

@@Tosnoob That's fine. I shouldn't have voiced my opinion as a matter of fact. But it is what I think.

[@saw31489]

You know I felt like I was going crazy for calling this out years ago. I always said that this game is nowhere near what everyone kept on hyping it up to be and I was just basically felt like I was being gas lighted... Every single point you make a accurate

[@MindSamurai94]

Absolutely this glad I’m not alone

[@aleisinwndrlen7113]

Oh man, Infinite. I was one of the many, many people who revered this game to no end back in 2013 and the years that followed. Around late 2018, I decided to give the Bioshock series (1, 2, and Infinite, including the DLCs) a replay, and only then I realised that Infinite wasn’t quite the whiz-bang that I remembered it to be. I’m not saying that it’s utter garbage, but… I did feel disappointed. I don’t know, I just felt like it lacked a certain oomph that the first two had. The gameplay is fine, but the story, man. It just felt like they tried to do too much and ended up with a jumbled mess of a plot that was somehow made worse with Burial at Sea. Watching that “Bioshock Infinite that we never got” video by IGN only saddened me even more to see the amount of potential it had. What a shame. Well, that’s my two cents in anyway. Hope they could revive the series with 4. And Boulder Punch, excellent review as always. You have earned yourself another subscriber.

[@DrakenGuardz]

Amazing timing. I just finished Burial At Sea 2 tonight and I was wondering about the development of Infinite as a whole. I searched this up and your video was just posted 9 minutes ago! Can't wait to watch, keep up the great work.

[@BoulderPunch]

Good timing.

[@buddhull]

look at that - near synchronicity in true multiverse action within both the real and fake lives

[@huntclanhunt9697]

Same here!

[@spencermcbride3881]

I really do like how the different versions of Elizabeth disappear with the notes of the piano. Such a cool visual touch

[@USMC49er]

I feel like it was a missed opportunity to make a Elizabeth turn into Sofia Lamb from Bioshock 2. Someone who was taught the wrong way of the "greater good" by Comstock but also believed in the greater good of humanity with her journey with Booker and came up with her own view of a utopian society. It would've been a interesting rewrite if Booker was nihilistic on life because of all the years he served in pointless wars but when he sees a young Elizabeth eager to see the world outside of her cage, his heart warms up and wants Elizabeth to see the beauty of the world like he used to. But Comstock is killed and Booker dies on Rapture and unfortunately Elizabeth has to see the world without guidance and the one regret Booker has it not being able to guide her like a father would. Then we just transfer the backstory of Sofia Lamb to Elizabeth to fulfill the big reveal. But that is just how I would write it.

[@user-MidwayDisc]

I know it’s kinda unrelated, but considering all the great lore that all 3 games set up. It’s real shame 2K never really expanded Bioshock universe into more books/comics to explore more of the universe.

[@ethanaterx5046]

I'd love to have seen how Infinite's story turned out if it was a book rather than a game. This opinion is probably unique to me, but I'd have prefered that Infinite been a book rather than game simply because the story could've been so much more well rounded and complex... but I still read books so I'm probably just weird.

[@Adrian_1114]

Oh fuck that would've been great ;(

[@Adrian_1114]

Well I know of at least one book about Andrew ryan

[@idiot_city5244]

Nah it's so nice they didn't over saturate the universe with tons of crap

[@josesosa3337]

Yeah, I think bioshock can do some star wars expanded universe type stuff.

[@beansfebreeze]

I still remember seeing it in Game Informer and thinking it was so mysterious and interesting and such a wild turn from the previous 2. And then it came out and it will go down in history as one of the games of all time.

[@mongooseunleashed]

Lol, no it won't. It kinda killed the Bioshock series.

[@ExValeFor]

@@mongooseunleashed I don't think you read what OP said correctly

[@mongooseunleashed]

@@vikinggamer7727 It did. There's no more Bioshock. Shoot, they're trying to bring System Shock back.

[@vikinggamer7727]

@@mongooseunleashed bioshock 4 is in development...

[@mongooseunleashed]

@@ExValeFor How did you interpret it?

[@ShebastianReyes]

Thank you! I was frustrated that no one else around me shared my feelings with how Infinite progressively became less cohesive as you played. I'm glad I'm not alone.

[@alucrasher27]

I'm so glad you brought up the animation for Booker pressing the elevator button. I find it incredibly satisfying.

[@northseapirate2313]

My problem with the twist is that it really says absolutely nothing. The original Bioshock’s twist was so impactful because it worked with the message of the game, that freedom is often an illusion. It works as a final critique of Objectivism as well as the illusion of choice in gaming. Bioshock Infinite’s twist says nothing about gaming nor society at large, nor does it fit with the themes the world brought up. It instead offers a twist that only works on a character level, not making us think but only go “oh yeah, that’s a surprise” for a second and then realize all the plot holes in the story. Without a deeper meaning, the entire game is just left kind of flat.

[@Christopher-md7tf]

Huh? It plays directly into one of the main themes which is explicitly mentioned several times in the game: Constants and variables. Which you might also call consequences of different choices or diverging paths or the butterfly effect or whatever. Booker and Comstock are two vastly different outcomes of the same set of starting variables, seperated by one initial difference in choice that then has many domino-like consequences down the line.

[@northseapirate2313]

@@Christopher-md7tf But what does constance and variables have to do with ultranationalism or racism? In the original Bioshock the twist tied into the political message the game was trying to convey, in Infinite that message is forgotten at the half way point.

[@Christopher-md7tf]

@@northseapirate2313 Well, aside from the fact that a piece of media can have more than one theme, on one divergent path Booker/Comstock becomes obsessed with these ideas, on another one, he doesn't even seem to support them, and on yet another, he's in active, violent resistance to them. Wildy different outcomes from the same set of starting variables. You are right that the political themes are not really relevant for the finale, but the same is true for the first Bioshock. Idk, maybe I'm missing something there, but what does Objectivism really have to do with the WYK thing or you shooting guns at the Resident Evil-like abomination that Fontaine has become? Seems to me like, in both cases, the political themes set the external stage, but the more personal aspects of the plot cover different themes.

[@northseapirate2313]

@@Christopher-md7tf WYK is supposed to show how freedom is an illusion, both in gaming and in Objectivism. Jack’s freedom is taken away because the free market allowed it, since he’s little more than an investment. Bioshock’s ending might be disappointing but it at least keeps the city and its social commentary front and center over the personal aspects (which in Bioshock were only ever used to reinforce the former).

[@metavisiongaming]

I would bet that this game would be a major hit if they re-released it in its full vision. Even a more deepened vision. People would rebuy it and it would redeem the bioshock trilogy for many.

[@Zockanumber1]

They'd probably have to rebuild the Game from scratch for it to be the way it was originally intended

[@metavisiongaming]

@@Zockanumber1 yeah true. Even better. Won't happen though 😕.

[@bickboose9364]

Well, I believe the cut content probably still exists somewhere in 2K's databases. If so, it *could* be accessed and expanded upon. But, yeah, it's very unlikely that'll happen.

[@ejm1225]

We can only hope for now.

[@54356776]

I'd love to just have more episodes like burial at sea. Just different scenarios in different realities. Ep2 of BAS was my favourite part of the entire game. Playing as Elisabeth was brilliant especially with the change in gameplay.

[@RachCan]

So glad there’s more discussion about this game. I absolutely hated the hype over the lackluster writing and characters.

[@itsblitz4437]

Yeah even after I got the game and beat I thought it was very underwhelming especially finishing the ending (which in my opinion, I am glad it wasn't those arbitrary binary moral choice endings, the "good" and "bad" endings). I mean I did enjoy it but I thought it could have been more, especially with its characters.

[@richardsavolainen944]

Personally I would've prefered them to stick to Columbia's American exeptionalism and nationalism and leave all the time travel plot points and the apolitical nature of the vox populi for the sake of making a "both sides" argument which I absolutely hate

[@RachCan]

@@richardsavolainen944 I agree. It really felt like a majority of the story & character motives were warped to make the argument that the slaves were just as bad as the slaveholders.

[@richardsavolainen944]

@@RachCan don't get me wrong I'm absolutely not trying to say that "all minorities can do no wrong" since all groups of people are cabable of over generalizing and gate keeping to some extent but the columbia's side was so much worse that you couldn't really find a peaceful solution anyway. Also don't even get me started on Fitzroy lol. The way they tried to make her seem comparable to Comstock is to make her cover her face in blood (which was more silly than anything) and held a child at a gun point for no reason other than to prove a point that wasn't explained in the game

[@richardsavolainen944]

@@RachCan so in conclusion: the games theme was more serious for a apolitical argument to fit in since the vox seems a lot more sympathetic than columbia

[@TheNewGuy21]

I just want you to know, the fact that you said "When you need the character to act like a fucking idiot to get the plot moving forward." I immediately paused, subscribed and pressed play. Keep up the god tier work you fucking amazing man

[@had_fun_once]

Man, I can see why a lot of the veteran developers had issues with Levine. I don't think many people would enjoy working on a game that's in an endless prototyping phase, without concrete identity or features because it's all constantly changing.

[@Shenaldrac]

From what I've heard about the development of Final Fantasy 15, it sounds like Levine and Nomura are similar.

[@mikerueffer579]

@@Shenaldrac an ex employee from eidos actually went to squares offices to file a complaint. According to him they were crafting each building, and character individually never using any standard templates.

[@Shenaldrac]

@@mikerueffer579 I assume you mean BOI and not FF15, because I KNOW 15 has tons of repeat NPCs and stuff.

[@TheHasmith99]

Seems like all Ken Lavine can do is remake his own games. Bioshock is a watered down reimagining of System Shock 2, Infinite is a watered down reimagining of Bioshock. I find it funny how in Infinite they keep talking about the "always a man, always a lighthouse" thing as if it's some common trope when it's only been done once before, and they're basically just admitting they couldn't find a more original way to introduce their city, but because they're being "meta" about it it's ok.

[@Faded.Visuals]

I remember watching another review video regarding the earlier version of Bioshock infinite that they were trying to implement a similar method of the big daddies and little sisters with Elizabeth and Songbird. Rumors have it that Songbird would have been a randomized and continuing enemy who would jump in and attack Booker DeWitt. If you failed to defend songbird’s attack he would take Elizabeth, thus having you go and rescue her again from a specific location. But granted that was an earlier build of the game and it was more expansive in terms of the actual map of the game. Almost like Sander Cohen and Fort Frolic. You’re placed in a semi open map to explore and tackle any way you want to go

[@sergeant2039]

Speaking of cut content, I was the Bioshock Infinite artist who threatened to quit unless Levine changed his game. Here's what happened. Many of you probably read this article *Link to offended religious developer* and yes, that ever so offended artist was me. I remember when Levine scrapped the democratic aspect of the original Infinite and had us go for a theocratic based story. I was absolutely shocked on what the writers had in stock for the final rewrite. Some parts that never made the cut included: 1. A child burning himself on a ship (which was changed to a grown woman). 2. Christians quoting bible verses defending their decision to lynch a couple of black men (the racial aspect thought-out Infinite was supposed to be more realistic and dark). 3. A cult attempting to murder Elizabeth for being accused of witchcraft. None of these in particular offended me as they were inspired by real events in history. What really striked the nerve was the ending scene involving Comstock. Here's briefly how the scene would've played out: Elizabeth confronts Comstock accusing him of twisting the words of the Bible to fit his selfish, racist worldview. Comstock explains to her how Columbia was shaped by "natural law" and thus is not fundamentally oppose to the divine. Elizabeth opens a tear which shocks Booker and Comstock alike. A brown-skinned man with a Jewish-like face being crucified by white people. Yes, this was supposed to be the real Jesus Christ meeting his fate from the Romans. Comstock falls on to his knees after realizing Jesus was not the blue-eyed white man everyone assumed at the time. He screams "LORD, WHY HATH YOU FORSAKEN US! Wait, no! IT CAN'T BE! THIS IS SATAN BLINDING ME FROM PERCEIVING THE TRUTH!" Comstock grabs a knife running towards Jesus and screams "I DEFY YOU FALSE PROPHET!!!" Booker quickly grabs him and starts slamming his head against the fountain yelling, "This is your savior you son of a bitch, and you abandoned his teachings!" Things proceed similar to the initial release. Yes, tears would've been able to open time portals as well. That about sums it all up. I'm personally glad we got the current story rather than that atrocious pre-alpha concept. And I'm sure you are too now that you know the long hidden secret behind it all. Thank you for reading.

[@prufan]

@@sergeant2039 I'll have to disagree, I much prefer that pre alpha concept. Compared with the final release

[@moustachio05]

@@sergeant2039 whats your name? (If you were credited of course)

[@ImTakingYouToFlavorTown]

@@sergeant2039 assuming this story is true, that would be so dumb and blunt it would farther lowered the quality of the game.

[@TheHalloweenSpirit]

Songbird could be an amazing "Nemesis" main enemy...

[@discountmorty213]

I was actually in awe with infinite but the unreleased stuffs could make a new infinte.They should do it again

[@mBoNesi]

Perfect timing, was just revisiting BioShock 2 yesterday. Also good trivia on the Bastila voice actress, love it!

[@Starcraftgamer97]

This was a game that started out great for me but deteriorated as it went on. Especially in regards to Elizabeth's character. I started out really liking her but the ending and dlc left a terrible taste in my mouth.

[@Keram-io8hv]

Yep, I was expecting her char would be developed through choices like in second game

[@ivanmarquez2218]

I liked her at the very beginning, then it began to dawn on me how very unlikely it is that someone confined in isolation for her entire life with nothing but books and a creepy metallic bird could be as Jolly, Easy-going and Energetic like she does. Comstock of our game doesn't strike me as a possitive father figure since he wants to use her as a religious symbol. Althought this may be possible, I never saw information or a hint of him raising her to be this way in order to make the followers even more faithful.

[@christiangottsacker6932]

@@ivanmarquez2218 she wasnt aware. Her being bubbly isnt that surprising. She wasnt strapped to a chair her whole entire life. She was educated by disney esque propaganda and sanitized books of history. The bird and her we buddies. Its something i dont worry about much. Fighting her ghost mom was worse.

[@Gungelion]

Any problem with Bioshock infinite could've been resolved with one simple choice, Eliminate the Multi-verse aspect. The two variants of Booker? twins. Keep who's the real biological father of Elizabeth is an unanswered question. Elizabeth says "I choose my family." Elizabeth's powers? Make her psychic. This was hinted in the very first trailer if I recall. Question about whether or not choices matter? Make the final choice Elizabeth's, not the player. You see? If you take away that one aspect of the story everything else can fall into place.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

Yeah multiverse is absurd but soap opera evil twin is fine. Sure.

[@john26razor340]

Agreed

[@mr.elixer2455]

There are an INFINITE amounts of Booker and Columbia. The song ''will the circle be unbroken'' is a paradoxical statement about this infinite circle wich could only be broken by bringing Booker to the exact place and time of the baptism where the first offshoot of Comstock got created. This moment 'constant' also happened with multiple 'variables', hence the multiple Elizabeths drowning Booker/Comstock at the same time, in doing so eliminating the possiblility of Columbia ever happening. The circle collapses and there never was a Comstock or Columbia. Just like the infinite itself, the story of the game is a paradox. I feel like most people only played this game once, didn't understand it, blamed the game and called it a day. This game needs to be played multiple times in order to connect all the dots. So no, the ''problem'' wouldn't be solved, there would actually be no story without this concept.

[@Gungelion]

@@mr.elixer2455 I have played it multiple times and I did understand it. I guess just dislike scenarios where the existence of the multi-verse means no choice matters. I don't like getting into the mindset of Owlman from the movie Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths.

[@mr.elixer2455]

@@Gungelion Choices do matter, though. It just had to be the right one at the right time, hence 'constants' and 'variables'. There are factors which keep returning, it's the variables that can differ and have an impact on the cycle as a whole. That's what the story of Infinite boiled down to. Certain choices weren't made until Elizabeth could see all the timelines and guide Booker to the right choices, leading towards and ending up with the baptism where she drowned him. Because EVERY choice mattered it was so difficult to break the circle. And the story had meaning. It was absolutely beautiful to me. Also the Luteces were at the same time testing and teaching Booker how to move. But they wanted him (i.e. the player) to find out the right way. So that's why you got those superficial choices like "bird or cage". The Luteces were behind Columbias technology and were both sides of the same individual. They failed to succeed until Elizabeths (Anna's) full potential got unleashed. So in the end everyone played a part in the "salvation" of Booker. No more Comstock, no more Elizabeth, no more Columbia. The perfect paradoxical ending.

[@pilouuuu]

What I missed from this game was more organic environmental interactions, like Big Daddy and Little Sisters and other NPCs in Bioshock. Instead all the systems seemed to revolve around you and most NPCs were aggressive towards you. Better A.I., more choice and consequence and better usage of Elizabeth would have made this a better game as well.

[@tyrantking9000]

On what was cut in the game, from what I remember from a game informer. The ending would be different depending on how many times you have Elizabeth use tears. So imagine my surprise when I realize that there was only one ending, way after I somewhat had a slightly harder time without using as many tears I could've used.

[@someuser4166]

"The enemy of art is the absence of limitations" I like that quote. Especially in the age of AI generated content

[@GamingMan01]

I'm so happy that BioShock 2 is finally getting the love it deserves. It just got so much unnecessary flack at release for even *existing,* but damn if it isn't the best title in the series. To this day I still think that Ryan Amusements is the single best video game level that I've ever played; it's just so masterfully designed. And those somber underwater sections are just so serene and beautiful. I'll still grant that it's kind of goofy that Subject Delta rummages through trash cans for actual food, but that doesn't detract from the otherwise wonderful design. Ironically, Infinite is probably the one BioShock title - after BioShock 2 - that I've played through the most. For some reason I've always been kind of fixated on how something like the Skyhook is supposed to mechanically work and how the way it's depicted in the game paints it as something that isn't even remotely plausible as a usable device. But I get that it's a video game with super powers and time travel and alternate universe hopscotching so the actual plausibility of the Skyhook as a realistic contraption is a moot point. I like Infinite enough, but I am really not much of a fan of the Burial at Sea DLC, which just feels like poorly written fan fiction to me. Infinite doesn't hold a candle to BioShock 2 but visually Infinite is extremely well done. I can see how folks may have been biased in favor of Infinite due to the ending, but...no, the ending is really just a lot of silly dribble that *really* starts to fall apart if you think about it for even a nanosecond. Anyway, everybody should go replay BioShock 2. It's a total masterpiece that still holds up today.

[@Exel3nce]

Itsok

[@aleisinwndrlen7113]

Infinite is pretty alright for me. Burial at Sea was just… a slap in the face honestly.

[@bickboose9364]

Minerva's Den should've been one of the main focuses of Bioshock 2, instead of it being a DLC.

[@bellenber]

So glad to see another fan of BioShock 2. It's easily my favorite game in all of the Shock Series. Drill Only w/ Plasmids was my go to playstyle, so much fun.

[@samwizgamgie3rd828]

Man, this guy gets it! Bioshock 2 is amazing!!!

[@saltycomet]

💯💯

[@caitlinelliott7005]

I really wanted to like infinite. I love the first two, but it's not the change in setting or bigger story, it's just not the same calibre. Less choice, less chance to wander with most places you couldn't get into, and only 3 weapons but still carrying all ammo and upgrades, its just weird. Different isn't always a problem, it just never felt as good in my opinion

[@BloodofaFool]

I have personally replayed Infinite many times. I fell in love with the characters and the story. The ending blew my mind when I first beat the game. I would still label it one of my favorites.. and though I'm skeptical, the news on a Bioshock Netflix movie could go really well or really bad but one I'm interested to see. Oh and the music was ASTONISHING! So many memorable pieces of music. They said a new game was in development so it'd be great if they used this producer(s) again.

[@micahbeckner2274]

I agree, its one of my new favorite games. And its art direction is only rivaled by the first 2.

[@t.t6294]

the new game is being made by a new team and the game seems to be in development hell. so lol

[@TheHalloweenSpirit]

@@t.t6294 The new Ken Levine game is in development hell, the new BioShock title from Cloud Chamber is ready to be show this year

[@t.t6294]

@@TheHalloweenSpirit That's also in development hell and it won't be shown until 2023. at least that's what some of the insiders said

[@lucascoval828]

I'm leaning towards really bad.

[@bigdog517]

Infinite was great, it's greatest mistake was trying to be a BioShock game imo

[@Relativity404]

The thing I remember the most about pre-release materials were all the quasi-promises of an open world. Near the start of the game, you're even told that if you steal money from the shop keepers' cash registers, they will turn on you, but that's a nothing mechanic that never gets expanded on (as far as I remember)

[@Ji99i3]

A KZbin refresh and now I have something to watch for lunch. Tnx

[@Diispaceyone]

lol same

[@azuregiant9258]

Generally speaking, in every Bioshock game, it’s the constant bombardment of overly alert, generic enemies hurtling towards me every few minutes that brought what was otherwise an amazing game down for me. We’re introduced to this world that begs to be explored and it’s immersion breaking when “oh, I’m yet again locked in combat with this enemy that looks exactly the same as the one before”. I’d love there to be more of an option to play stealthily in the next Bioshock game….and more variety of enemy design would be nice too.

[@zamirewilson7424]

Having stealth would be nice, but also kinda funny imagining a Alpha Big Daddy tip toeing around like Sam Fisher. XD

[@mayonnaise3959]

You can stealth in 1 and 2

[@bickboose9364]

IIRC, the first 2 games very rarely straight up lock you into combat.

[@markymalarkey8344]

Finally, someone calls out Ken Levine and the abysmal knee jerk retcon of Daisy Fitzroy. I look forward to your analysis of Burial at Sea. I didn't hate Infinite, but Burial at Sea tainted everything I enjoyed about Infinite's and Bioshock 1's story.

[@DomitriCervantes]

Why?

[@markymalarkey8344]

@@DomitriCervantes They retconned Daisy Fitzroy, they made Fontaine incompetent, and they muddied the story of the first game. But, mainly, I hated how how they turned Elizabeth into an edgy cruel bitch. She went out of her way to hurt a child so she could torture and kill a Comstock, who was repentant of his past actions. Completely contradictory to her character in Infinite.

[@hyenagore2982]

@@markymalarkey8344 it made sense for the story, every single traumatic event of every single elizabeth collapsed in on her, she'd already been indoctrinated by comstock for a few months before booker saved her, etc. So it made sense that she was incredibly jaded and traumatised- after all, she was.only 19 when the events of infinite occurred. However you're right - it was very jarring and Elizabeth's sudden omniscience at the end of infinite ruined it a bit for me

[@brainglow_lightbright]

I can safely say that this series is one of, if not my favorite I’ve played. Nervous about the next one tbh.

[@Neogears1312]

A part that’s always bothered me is how cowardly they were with the racism theme. (by reading this you agree to be ok with the obviously bad words in going to be using for historical accuracy) Columbia’s depictions of racism are insulting if you know anything about the time it was framed. The offensive elephantè in the room; the use of the word negro. During this era in American history you would call a black person a negro out of respect, nigger is the word used for offense. Columbia being this blatantly racist yet still somehow afraid to use the very commonly socially accepted slur of the era is so sterile that the only way it could be taken less seriously is if they were saying African. Even then the treatment of them in Columbia is comically sanitized. The couple people throw stuff at fir being in a mix racial relationship is supposed to get you to hate the city as someone from the 21st century but all it really does is make Columbia look pretty damn good by comparison to America in that same year because they would probably be lynched. 1. I find it gross to sanitize and censor history especially when trying to make points about the timeframe. It kinda spits on the hard ships the civil rights movement was founded upon when you portray the treatment like the one bully from everybody hates chris exclusively. 2. I just think irrational games are fucking cowards. They clearly wanted to use the time frame for shock value and to prop up their game world by playing into peoples emotions but clearly were too cowardly to commit to realistic interpretation so they half assed it and patted themselves on the back. All they convinced me with its depictions of racism in the 1910’s was they really wanted praise themselves for acknowledging racism exists without putting in any effort. It’s not even a subject matter that particularly matters to me. I’m of the belief that without truly forgetting about it, the less we care and acknowledge racism or even the differences between people the less impact and power it will have on society. But even then I appreciate a good deconstruction of this subject matter so people can understand why I have that belief. This is zootopia levels of writing where the racism message is muddied by how badly they handled it. And the worst part is it’s completely shoehorned and falls out of focus pathetically early so I don’t even see the point of the developers dipping their toes in that water if they never had intentions to commit in the first place. I think two games I’d say deserve more accolades for doing this games attempt at theming before it throws it in the garbage in favor of an unfunctioning multiverse plot would be the first 2 oddworld games and tales of symphonia. They tackle the subject with full commitment while making you reflect on how these messages apply to you no matter who you are which is the most important part to nail for that theme, Bioshock Infinite does not. and it may be a bit hamfisted with it but it’s kind of what you need to do for this. It’s not exactly a subtle subject matter when it’s literal premise is judging things on a skin deep value. TL;DR Bioshock infinite wants to parade itself for tackling race but completely disrespects the message in about every way possible.

[@isabellamorris7902]

They ARE lynching the interracial couple - they are supposed to be being stoned to death

[@pascalsimioli6777]

As another comment said: they are lynching the couple with baseballs which is even slower as a death and it represents a symbol of American culture. I wholeheartedly disagree on zootopia: to me the interpretation is that racism is pointless because evil can come from anyone no matter if they look like the sheep or the wolf. I can agree on the use of word nigger but I don't think that the message was somehow lost because they only said negro in their smug holier than thou tone. Fink has PA in his industry explaining why they're inferior ane Comstock compares his evil in enslaving them to God evil when flooding the earth.

[@DarkxxPixie]

I went to the comments looking for what he meant by "politically correct" and I'm choosing this interpretation. And re: the lynching, the fact that it has to be laboriously explained is a condemnation of the handling here.

[@isabellamorris7902]

@@DarkxxPixie Is it all that laborious though? I thought they did effectively communicate what was going on (and stoning is a Biblical punishment so makes sense for the setting). That said, I don't wanna be the asshole in a discussion like this, and it's been ages since I played the game.

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

And in the original concepts, Fitzroy was supposed to be Irish. It was going to focus on the racism faced by Irish immigrants and other ostensibly white people only permitted into Columbia by virtue of their skin color but still oppressed, but Levine decided that wasn't hamfisted enough so decided that such a racist and isolationist society would instead bring people they hate up to their magical flying city and not pull the Islamic trick of sterilizing them to prevent the slaves they look down upon from breeding and becoming a menace. I think it was a YTer named Endeavor who picked it apart and really critiqued that Elizabeth as we first meet her is the only character genuine to the time period and setting, and the rest of their modern praise-seeking cowardice only showed its falsehood with a real character from the period right there and pretty well-written.

[@orphy640]

I'm really glad I saw this video cause I too was gonna make something like this I played Bioshock infinite seeing it on sale on steam and after playing it I felt like something was missing. The potential the game could've had was big and while playing it I felt it and it felt like to me, the game ended before it could've become one of the greats then I see crowbcat's video and there I saw the game that I wanted, I wanted to explore the world I wanted it to be a masterpiece but I got a good game that could've been a masterpiece

[@ryanlunzen9794]

Tbh I really Like the Game. But the story feels weak. In Bioshock 1 and 2 it felt like every character got a Story that was told in its whole. In Infinite many characters feel like they are just there. For example Daisy but also the Lutteces.

[@Dr_Slash]

As far as the plot similarities between Bioshock 2 and Infinite are concerned, I imagine that's due to both of them drawing inspiration from the pitch for the original Bioshock: "The player takes on the role of Carlos Cuello, a down and out 'deprogrammer' assigned to infiltrate a religious cult on a remote island and 'rescue' a wealthy heiress from the clutches of the cultists" (also, funny how the finished game had practically nothing in common with the original vision, it's almost as if we've seen that happening to some other game before).

[@GoreTorn16]

The fact that Booker was voiced by the famous Stephen Russell, makes me so nostalgic and excited for what BioShock infinite could have been.

[@LeeSixTwenty]

Was Booker supposed to be older? I remember reading that Booker/Comstock was born 1874, and when Columbia was unveiled in 1893, he would've been just 19 years old. Something I can't buy a guy under twenty somehow convincing the Luteces and the US Govt to help build Columbia. It just shatters my suspension of disbelief.

[@Gwyn770]

​@@LeeSixTwentyOriginally Booker was older than Comstock.

[@hendrikmostert3305]

I'm a year late, but love listening to critiques about Bioshock infinite.

[@creepykels]

Your thoughts are very well thought out and presented! It's only taken 9 years, but hearing you have the same gripes and frustration with this game gives me the vindication of not being not mind blown, in love with, or blindly accepting of this game on release. I was so excited when I played the beginning from what was presented and was so over and done with it well before the ending, and I didn't witness all the previous iterations and presentations before it came out.

[@TiomesTheOne]

i love your stuff. Even when i disagree i still learn about new things and new perspectives

[@ladyofavalon]

I personally think Bioshock 2 is a much better game then Infinite.

[@GB-sh9st]

Great review. My experience with the skyhooks was a little different; on the hardest difficulty, they become MUCH more critical to success, yet they always feel a bit gimmicky like a rail shooter.

[@sojinnn]

So happy to read that I'm not the only one who thinks Bioshock 2 was a great game (and maybe the best one of the series? 😅).

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

My biggest gaming dissapointment probaly of all time, I truly do despise infinite, from the lying E3 showcase to the cut features, ideas and content, the themepark linearity shooting segments and the story that falls apart , still always up for a good video essay

[@skully2860]

I completely agree with your points. There are few sections i kind of remember and its mostly what you said. Booker whacking the elevator buttons etc. The Horror section in the asylum caught me off guard when i first played it. I had felt like i was an old man in a wheelchair being guided around by a nurse and suddenly ending up in the asylum wing of the retirement home. The nurse dropped me on the ground and just said see ya. The ending was bland and i didnt really like it. Elizabeth was a good addition and i like the way she was implemented gameplaywise.

[@gabrielbrown4764]

I just finished Infinite (not played the DLC yet.) Was it flawed? Yes. Could it have had a lot more going for it? Yes. Did I still absolutely love it all of it, especially Booker and Elizabeth, the world and the story? Absolutely.

[@mayonnaise3959]

Story was shit

[@mateusgreenwood1096]

My biggest problem with infinite is how simplistic and primitive it is in comparison to previous games, there's no tonics for builds, no hacking, weapon upgrades are just for damage or reload, no ammo types, no optional objectives like little sisters, or multiple task levels like fort frolic, almost all enemies are just humans with a gun, most vigors are just an aoe explotion, you cannot carry health nor eve/salts, there's no resources to manage so you're just at the mercy of elizabeth handing you ammo. On top of that the plot is a time traveling mess with most characters being boring white trash with nothing interesting to say, one of the most disappointing games i ever touched.

[@AroAceGamer]

I mean, having Elizabeth as invincible is still better than the alternative of, say, Ashley from Resi 4, who can, iirc, even die from friendly fire.

[@johnk9727]

Idk why, but I have enjoyed bioshock infinite better than the other bioshock games, I just like how the game made me feel for some reason

[@mayonnaise3959]

So I assume you just love call of duty.

[@johnk9727]

@@mayonnaise3959 never really been a fan of fps's in general

[@mayonnaise3959]

@@johnk9727 bro infinite is the most generic FPS ever made. It shocks me that you think it’s better

[@johnk9727]

@@mayonnaise3959 probably bc I didn''t know what bioshock was when I played it, just thought the game looked cool, it was also my first shooter

[@mayonnaise3959]

@@johnk9727 so you’re biased?

[@Minority119]

I still vividly remember going into infinite back in the day sick fuckin hype and then at the end coming out like "well... that was a whole lotta nothin"

[@MrSirHenryMF]

I have no idea why some people say 2 is the worst in the series when this exists. 2 is way more fun in pretty much every way.

[@vikinggamer7727]

Some people live in the past, while the present is much different, now people really like the game, much more then infinite or some people think that all of the games are good or mediocre.

[@RobertEdwinHouse9]

2 is easily the best

[@Namelessstew]

I think two has the best gameplay and a decent story. But 1 definitely has one of the best twists in gaming history, and great gameplay as well. 2 just improved on the gameplay in every way

[@Gackt4awesome]

Because Bioshock 2’s story retconned the shit out of Bioshock. Lamb is nonsensical, Rapture standing 8 years after Bioshock 1 is stupid, the twist is just a bore fest and the Big Sisters are questionable at best in their implementation. It’s quite the opposite of the DLC as Burial at Sea is fucking terrible

[@RobertEdwinHouse9]

@@Gackt4awesome story is dumb but the game is great Minervas den is amazing

[@tjjordan4207]

Infinite is another example of a game that should have been its own IP, even if it was just one game. To tie it back to Bioshock, even as a stand alone before the DLC literally tied it to the first game, just takes away any real chance it had at creating its own audience. It would be like if the original idea for Assassin’s Creed was kept the same, just being a spin-off title for Prince of Persia. Imagine never getting the Ezio trilogy or Black Flag. That’s how I view Infinite. An interesting concept that was weighed down by the expectations and legacy of another IP.

[@Skwadley]

the intro to Infinite always gets me emotional. It’s not a perfect game, it’s not even a great game by most people’s standards, but it holds a special place in my heart. especially with burial at sea.

[@therevanchist2888]

Yeah the first part of the game was so immersive, I remember being mind blown walking around and doing the mini games, I personally really enjoyed this game but it can’t touch the experience I had with Bioshock 1 & 2

[@sadman3515]

Yeah, Bioshock Infinite was a lot of wasted potential, mostly due to the lack of interactivity and exploration of ideas. I think because of the vast amount of cut content, the game was rewritten to conclude "wiping away the debt" by erasing Comstock's existence so the infinite universes end as one balanced universe. The Lutece siblings also no longer exist from Colombia not being founded. Comstock destroyed the Lutece device, causing the brother and sister to be scattered so they attempt to resolve whether they exist or do not. Through countless attempts, as observed at several points with the coin flip and board, new introduction of the shield potion, etc, you see the player never had a choice since the entire story meant to correct the aberration of their existence and the tears. 5:00 Bioshock Infinite liked to lock onto symbolism, which could easily be overlooked as the meat of the game is run & gun bullet sponges. Baptism, songbird and cage, etc. The foreshadowing of Booker at the start not taking baptism seriously separated him from the religious Comstock, who changed after being baptized and taking a new name. The beleaguered, burdened vet is selfish, regretful, and violent, drowning in alcohol and gambling, strikebreaking as a Pinkerton, and losing his daughter Anna in exchange. Comstock is faithful, prideful, and subdued, creating Colombia as a legacy, self-worship from countless churches, statues, 50% of earnings tithe for himself, and taking Anna (renamed Elizabeth) to continue salvation for his people as his daughter. Booker branded his hand AD to remember his daughter Anna DeWitt, which is probably why he won't cover it up. Comstock imprinted Songbird to Elizabeth to protect his legacy, as the tear experimentation made him sterile and rapidly age. The cage at the beginning foreshadows locking him into the story also shows how he is trapped in this cycle. It'd be good if the tune played in the sky and the cage when you solve the "puzzle" referenced the C, A, G, E notes that Elizabeth played to control Songbird (the big mechanical bird). I'm too lazy to elaborate any further.

[@Adrian_1114]

I never noticed the AD thing wow!

[@thechurch5000]

The gunplay in infinite was completely generic compared to Bioshock 2. Why they wanted to completely change something that wasn't broken is hard to understand.

[@nothingislogical]

I've interpreted the ending as a coy way of saying, "We're giving ourselves carte blanche to set this franchise wherever the hell we want." I think the entire game is basically an excuse to set that up. Funny thing is that once all of the DLC for this game came out, they never made another game. Bioshock Infinite was actually my first Bioshock game. I loved this game so much that I went back and played the first two. I prefer the first one over the other two. At the time, I preferred Infinite over Bioshock 2. I felt like Bioshock 2 was an instance where for everything they fixed from the first game, they broke something else. Fix hacking? Let's make make saving Little Sisters a drawn out slog of combat arenas. Even the plot felt like just a re-hash of the first game. All of that being said, I feel like I need to do a replay of the entire trilogy just to see if my opinions have changed on any of them.

[@ExValeFor]

The implications of that ending and what they did after are what really chafed my taint, personally. I would've been fine with Infinite's... issues, if they actually made good on the sheer freedom that ending allowed. Instead it all wrapped, closed-circle, back to Rapture, and any implication of that ending was basically shot in the head. Instead of even leaving a chance that they may go somewhere else, they made it all about Rapture - because people liked Rapture better, I guess (it's not difficult when Columbia ended up such dogshit)

[@michealhernandez4151]

Um did you play bo2, the harvesting adam part is completely optional.....

[@nothingislogical]

@@michealhernandez4151 Yes. I didn't harvest the Little Sisters in the first game and thought I'd be okay doing the same in second game. About halfway through the game, I got tired of shooting endless waves of enemies just to save Little Sisters so I decided to stop. Saving Little Sisters was literally a button press in the first game after you beat a Big Daddy, not a glorified escort mission.

[@bickboose9364]

@@nothingislogical The whole point of the Little Sister escort is to enforce the idea that you're a Big Daddy. I and, afaik, most people that've played BO2 had fun with that mechanic. You're given alot of plasmids and weapons to play with and set up traps. The biggest problem BO2 had was that it was way too easy (on PC atleast) and the levels spawned too many resources.

[@NoMoreCrumbs]

Elizabeth is a kind of Disney princess in reverse. Most of them start with parental issues which spurs character development and leads to them being happy. She starts happy and gets traumatized by parental issues

[@freedantheeternal]

Frankly, I feel Bioshock Infinite is what happens when a writer wants to write a multiverse story, but doesn't actually understand how multiverse theory works past the bare surface rules.

[@victormata7665]

I just replayed every Bioshock in a row, my wife played them after me because she was impressed by the little parts of story she saw me play through. I think my favorites in order are the first one, infinite and then 2. She thinks that Infinite is the best one, then 1 and then 2. I think it's because she connected pretty deeply with Elizabeth and the terrible father Booker could be. I love them all but I always come back to infinite when I want to replay a Bioshock game.

[@hello6089]

Comstock and Booker being the same person gave me the same feeling when, my waiter told me my lemonade was made with Lime

[@shieldofwind7241]

So I want to tell my experience with Bioshock. So about... A half a year ago, I got into the Bioshock series. Played through the whole series one game at a time. And going into it, all I expected was a good series, like it had been well received, and to have a fun time with it. Not to be walking into what would become one of my favorite games of all time and the most flawless FPS I've ever played. Bioshock 1, I mean. And I am not a first person shooter kinda guy, but Bioshock 1 had impeccable writing, one of the greatest fictional worlds in gaming history, an amazing atmosphere that I still get lost in 3 playthoughs in, a fantastic choice of songs for its OST, fun as hell gameplay, it's perfect. The only thing I think I can say I didn't particularly like was the final boss. Bioshock 2 was exceptional in improving the gameplay and had a really solid story to boot, just not one as philosophical or well written in social political commentary as the first one has, but definitely one where I got really attached to the characters. And again, the gameplay was even better than the first game, the level design on equal measures too. Bioshock 1 is a 10/10, everything about it completely works and is an absolute masterpiece, one of my favorite games ever made. Bioshock 2 is a solid 8 or 9/10. So going into Bioshock Infinite, I had high expectations. I remember so many people at the time calling this game a 10/10 and a masterpiece in everything and saying it was the best one of the three. It was the hottest game in 2013 and I couldn't find a YTer I was watching at the time not playing it. Now granted, I never finished watching any playthough because I was like... 11 or 12 and had the attention span of a goldfish, plus I never played Bioshock at the time. But going in last year, I had so much hope that Infinite would be the best one, despite Bioshock 1 being a high bar to beat. ...it didn't even meet half my expectations. Infinite completely disappointed me and even angered me to some degree with how much I disliked it. It's different, and thats not always a bad thing. I mean I'm one of the 10 people on Earth who love Resident Evil 6 despite it not knowing what it wants to be and think it's a fun as hell game. But Infinite knows what it wants to be yet fails imo. The story, the upgrade system, the whack ass combat balance just by taking away the healing system from 1 and 2 and instead needing to run around the battlefield like an idiot *hoping* you find health in a trashcan or tear, the lack of choice in your actions, the enemies feeling so less iconic than the splicers or Big Daddies, the game having nothing to say, having infinite lives with little to no consequences of not benifits so what's even the point, and there's more. Most of not all things in this game I just don't like. And it gets worse after seeing all of the scrapped things in this game. And it's not all bad. I like the voice acting... Uh... I like some of the visuals... Few as they were, I really liked some of the plasmids like Bucking Bronco, the charge one, and especially Peeping Tom. But ah Idk I really can't remember anything I properly like between those few things. And the worst thing, I don't really like the link between it and Rapture. It really feels like all of the atmosphere of Rapture as a fallen city from greatness was ruined not by its people, but by what Elisabeth and Booker did. It took away some of the magic of it all. Idk, it's just such an asspull to link it to Bioshock 1 and I enjoyed BaS less because of it, even if I enjoyed it better than the actual mainline Infinite but not by much. It just really sucks, Infinite and all its missed potential and heavy flaws. And with Bioshock 4 coming, I'm honestly scared of what its gonna hold, story and gameplay wise. If you ask me, it should have ended with 2, because if I knew the disappointment I would have with the entirety of Infinite and how much it would butch the formula and story and with how much was scrapped, I would have rather had the series end at 2. All I hope is that Bioshock 4 doesn't walk the path of Infinite. Hell, if they went with even a reboot and a completely new story or place unrelated to 1, 2 or Infinite, Id be fine with it. All I hope is to never be as disappointed with a game like that again. I already had that with Three Houses, Fire Emblem one of my favorite series of all time, being my least favorite Fire Emblem for so many reasons. I don't want it to happen with Bioshock again. Anyway, that was my ramble. Good vid, Boulder Punch. I've always enjoyed your stuff, dude. Keep up the good work.

[@Exel3nce]

@charles gee people love to "defend" crappy stuff or stuff that wasnt praised enough apparently. re6 will remain a shitty game. it was bloated, terrible re and just a mess through and through. sure, it was smoother and nice to look at but that isnt much

[@Exel3nce]

idk, the character of elizabeth, the music, sounddesign, artdirection, story bits etc are so fantastic, one can never forget them, even if the product overall remains a dissapointment. the connection to rapture and what happened there was a blast, but thats just me. it doenst ruin bs1 whatsoever, but also gives people twists and location memories if they desire.

[@JohnnyThund3r]

Nothing in gaming history can be as disappointing as going from Deus Ex 1 to Deus Ex 2... you don't know how good you got it with Infinite and Bioshock.

[@Crazygamergal]

I love Bioshock so much🥰 I’ve even been toying with my own little Bioshock story called Bioshock: another lighthouse which is about a version of Anna Dewitt who is a little sister in rapture because it inspires me so much!

[@inquespot9368]

Wow another incredible video. I must say that because of you and your videos, I have bought all the Resident Evil games and now have the Bioshock series on my Steam wishlist. Damn you and your ability to open my eyes to games I've never thought about playing. Thank you.

[@buckfiftyhotdogs3577]

Getting this video in my recommended, I realize now that it's been years probably since release that I've played BioShock Infinite. I thought it was an absolutely amazing game when it came out but I was so much younger and I think maybe I should revisit it and look at it from a critical standpoint

[@anonymouslyanonymous4673]

I actually only played infinite when the bioshock collection came out, and so many people were saying its an amazing game and the best bioshock game. I ended up feeling quite disappointed with it truthfully. It didnt feel like i bioshock game to me (and not just because it wasnt set it rapture), the plot felt like it was missing things and was quickly pasted together later in-game. The combat and enemies were a big step back for me too, there were parts of the game that i felt like i almost had to force myself to play it, which never happened with bio 1&2. I still see a lot saying its the best game and i feel like im the only person who didnt like it very much 😂

[@kaargen]

Bioshock Infinite was quite unique to me. The gameplay was rather simple, but I was hooked by the general atmosphere of the game. I haven't played another game that captures the unique feeling of a dream turning into a nightmare. I don't even know if that was intentional, but it's how I felt. I stopped caring about logic because it was a dream, and it terrified me in a way I can't say another game has done. For reference, I did not think much of Bioshock because I couldn't stop seeing it as a worse version of System Shock 2. Bioshock 2 was a bit better, but I still have no strong opinion on it.

[@affable8696]

Bioshock 1 was ruined by the absence of Hadoken monkeys. Real shit

[@JohnnyThund3r]

@@affable8696 Or you know... that fact Bioshock 1 isn't a scary game in the slightest, even when you turn Vita-chambers off, and System Shock 2 is one of the scariest games ever made.

[@shobhitscorpio]

Although I love Bioshock 1 & 2 more than infinite, but the setting of Columbia does have a certain charm to it. And I absolutely agree with the assertion that it would have been better if the devs fleshed out the setting i.e. Columbia, even more rather than jumbling the story into the right mess it is even after so many years after it's release. I swear, over the years I've seen so many explainers to get a sense of the story and that ending, but still to this day I cannot figure out the "Heads or Tails" of it, maybe I'm just that stupid !!!.. Great Video, like always!!..

[@LimaFX]

I agree Bioshock 2 is the best of the series with infinite being last

[@TerrariaPanda]

I like Bioshock Infinite lol

[@bickboose9364]

I like you lol

[@JohnnyThund3r]

Me too! I think Infinite was the best game in the series!

[@wddthedraftsman8679]

The Merged enemies are such an amazing concept. Such a shame they got scrapped.

[@rockys201]

Bioshock 1 is an obvious classic, it had brilliant gameplay, a great story and a well realised setting. Bioshock 2 is a drastically underrated game that took the gameplay of the first and enhanced it. Bioshock Infinite is a compromised, unfinished mess and I hated every moment of it's flawed, awful gameplay and it was vastly inferior in every way to it's predecessors

[@garypinholster1962]

The entire bioshock series is what got me into games as a whole really. The first one made me go build a computer with a gpu that had a whopping 512mb of VRAM. And it was expensive af...

[@the_real_Kurt_Yarish]

Every time I think of Bioshock: Infinite I'm left mourning what could have been. It conceptually had so much promise, and fell just flat enough that it left the taste of what it could have been in your mouth. What a shame. Great video!

[@stanfordfeynman2796]

I would give an arm and a leg to be able to play a reworked E3 2011 build of the game. That demo had everything I was looking for! I also loved Elizabeth’s personality a bit more before it was reworked due to the Rapunzel comparisons thing

[@FirstnameLastname-qc3xx]

I read the book and loved it. Had a lot of cool background info.

[@have_a_good_day420]

Imagine surving the battle of Wounded Knee and THEN embarking onto an epic skyrail journey through Colombia!!

[@ChelseaBytes]

44:26 Im so glad you picked this song, It was my favorite from Bioshock 2

[@Zap_Man]

I just replayed Infinite and I’m really happy that someone is talking about it just as I am looking more into it

[@EarlSoC]

Something I heard about Infinite's development is that one version of the game offended a developer's Christian sensibilities so completely that he tried to resign. Only Levine's personal intervention and promise of changing the offending content kept the writer from leaving. I wonder if one of the reason Bioshock shifted focus so many times is because Levine didn't know what he wanted the game to say about religion or Christendom. The development of the game overlapped a weird time for American churches and the way the internet approaches religion. I think it's not impossible that the 2K Team got outpaced by changing attitudes along with their normal struggle to get things done on time.

[@detrik01]

I can understand that, as a lot of Levine's development on Infinite was clearly influenced his spite against Christianity in particular and America in general. Levine was a spiteful cunt. American Krogan had a great breakdown of Infinite

[@meredithquinn]

This was such an excellent video and a totally nostalgic experience walking through the game. I can’t believe how much I still remember. Also there are so fascinating nuggets in there about development hell! Cheers!

[@Franciskev2]

Bioshock 2 is the one.