The Weird Story of "Bob's Game" (Zero Punctuation)

This week on Zero Punctuation, Yahtzee tells the story of 'bob's game".
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#zeropunctuation

[@theescapist]

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[@sailoritaly]

God, you must have nothing good to review if you have to review a game from 2016. I’m so sorry, dude

[@ThatSpecificIndividual]

@@sailoritaly the game had a massive turnaround so it makes sense to look at it again after 6 years of constant updates

[@rgordon1351]

@@sailoritaly it’s a very good game now though, and deserves a re review

[@lstallings96]

well this was an interesting watch. Quite entertaining how deep the lore of the video game world goes

[@thezufomec]

don't suppose you've heard of 'temple os'? stories seems weirdly similar, minus nintendo and plus a whole bunch of messiah complex

[@ZekeStaright]

Wow, he actually gave the money back after the Kickstarter? Color me impressed, good on you Bob.

[@backlogbuddies]

His second campaign though, he kept the money

[@prowlingmonkey]

@@backlogbuddies and I believe that eventually led to a 'bob's game' being put on steam. But it wasn't the bob's game that had been showcased all the years, it was the tetris mini-game inside bob's game. It is now delisted from steam.

[@davidmiller3999]

Probably had more to do with fear of litigation.

[@timcosgrove707]

@@davidmiller3999 kickstarter has a rule that any campaign that doesn’t get full funding automatically goes back to the donors. Even if he wanted to keep it he couldn’t.

[@booth1533]

@@timcosgrove707 it says he "successfully campaigned" so i assume it reached the kickstart goal

[@EdenLippmann]

Except that the problem with Bob was that he _was_ trying to work within the established systems, specifically the Nintendo handheld systems. If he'd just released it onto PC it could've found its audience and might even have been well-recieved, so a better message would be: don't shun your local open-mic night cause you're trying to get booked at the Apollo.

[@starmaker75]

Yeah even game devs like Toby and omocat had to realize you have to release on pc first and later Nintendo noticed to put on the switch.

[@eileenheath1968]

Nicely put, Eden!

[@azzzanadra]

another video claims that nintendo offered to give Bob his own team but he refused.

[@ttd0000]

I'd argue that releasing it on PC and hoping you make a big enough splash to be noticed by the big consoles is the "indie system" that he tried to avoid because anything other than a Nintendo handheld was spitting in the face of his vision.

[@cormano64]

*well received

[@Yuhara_rev]

This is such an interesting story, I've never heard of this guy and his game at all. Up until 4:46 I thought he was just a bit 'weird' and uncompromisingly stubborn with his vision, but damn that's some insane way to describe your own project.

[@TheSchaef47]

The story lost me when he announced he was inventing his own handheld to play his (checks calculator) one game.

[@NathanCassidy721]

This is definitely an interesting “what if” scenario if he put his game on Steam.

[@Dimchek970]

Reminds me of the TempleOS guy Then I get bummed out, cause the Bob guy is probably schizo as well

[@moeburn]

It all sounds like he was going for some kind of tongue-in-cheek sarcastic Stephen Colbert-style fake egoism, hoping to take off with zany cult-style "i'm only worshipping this guy cause it's ironic" followers like Donald Trump started out with.

[@Elvalley]

For a time during this retelling I just began to suspect he may have been just an incredibly committed troll (which would still mean something was off about his mind, but not so egregiously) who didn't believe his own hype, until Yahtzee talked about the current state of his website and everything clicked. He seems to be just garden variety mental but with strong online presence, like the guy who made TempleOS. Kinda sad, TBH.

[@pokemonmanic3595]

Honestly Digital Homicide remains the most egregious example of toxic egotism in the video game industry I’ve ever seen

[@espio87]

Now that's another company that deserves a Ocassional Guide to R̵e̵t̵a̵r̵d̵e̵d̵ SPECIAL Moments in Videogame History episode.

[@brianmckee2267]

Hah thanks got reminding me of those eejits. Imagine being able to eek out an existence making shovelware crap. Then you ruin your whole business by trying to sue your potential customers. Outstanding logic 👏

[@TheSchaef47]

To this day, one of my favorite videos on the internet to (re)watch is the after-action report that He-Was-Still-Called-Jim-Then Sterling shot after the lawsuit against him was dismissed.

[@brianmckee2267]

@@TheSchaef47 agreed. Will have to dig out stephs video again. I'm overdue a rewatch

[@vulpez650]

I honestly forgot those weirdos were a thing, I might need to look back into it for some fun hardy-hars at their foolishness. lol

[@IliyaMoroumetz]

The phrase, 'fail faster' comes to mind. It means that the sooner you learn the errors of your ways and apply the lessons from them, the better off you're going to be in the long run. Looks like Bob missed the memo on that.

[@eileenheath1968]

Sort of like "fall off the horse on purpose so you stop being afraid of what the ground MIGHT feel like."

[@Claymann71]

_Said by a guy with the voice of Sam Elliot_ There are 3 types of learners in this world. The 1st learns from the wisdom of their elders & from books / blueprints (which are/were written in blood) or hard life experience aka Pain. The 2nd learns from observation. The 3rd has to pee on the electric fence of Life.

[@OdaSwifteye]

He would need to see his project as nothing more than one of many on his path to perfecting his art. Right out the door Bob believed his one game was his masterpiece and Magnum Opus so there's no such thing as failing faster.

[@DoveJS]

@@OdaSwifteye Literally no option for him to fail in his mind, lol. Still, it's sound advice to do so.

[@Sara3346]

@@eileenheath1968 I mean hasn't that killed people though?

[@connerrock1164]

I forgot how catchy the “let’s all laugh At an industry who never learns anything tee hee hee” Jingle is

[@jamescampbell6724]

Wonder how he’s going to do top that jingle on Fully Ramblomatic.

[@DylanYoshi]

I remember this, it really was surreal. His blog posts when he locked himself in the room getting more and more insane was an understatement. He started going on about how the yakuza were after him and eventually about aliens. Then there was the point where he went to the Nintendo World Store just to put fake Nintendo DS boxes of his game on the shelves, uploading a video of himself doing it. The demo revealed what the game was really about, playing minigames that were knockoff versions of other games, with an overworld where plot happens to tie it all together. The Tetris minigame in the demo showed the big problem with this idea. Its premise was "What if Tetris had three block pieces instead of four block pieces?" The answer to that question is that it makes for a pretty crappy game, Tetris pieces take up four blocks for a gameplay purpose. In the end that minigame made the demo seem kind of bad. If they couldn't get one minigame to be fun after five years, it's hard to see how the game as a whole could possibly turn out good. And that's Bob's problem. Nintendo wasn't really big on Indie support then like they are now, but they were willing to allow some Indie games if they saw potential- the Wii Shop Channel had a good few. Bob's Game, with its best foot forward, presents a game that fundamentally misunderstands what makes Tetris fun. It shows a lack of design knowledge and a lack of unique vision. Nintendo was never going to see value in this thing.

[@BFedie518]

Tetris pieces with only three blocks... That's literally *two* different pieces. ⌞ | Not much you can do with that.

[@igunn8632]

@@BFedie518 i kinda do wonder what tetris with 5 blocks per piece would be like

[@TheSpolly2]

@@BFedie518 Not even three! You can get the second block from the first by rotating it once anti-clockwise.

[@BFedie518]

@@TheSpolly2 You're right! I thought it was three for the same reason L and ⅃ are distinct pieces, but the legs being the same breaks that.

[@BFedie518]

@@igunn8632 I wonder if there's a way to mathematically determine how many distinct pieces you can make from a given number of blocks. I'll ask my friend with a master's in mathematics and get back to you.

[@CJusticeHappen21]

It's like seeing two apple trees. One is tall, strong, and produces apples so large that they snap from their branches under the weight of their own fruitfulness. Other tree is barren and diseased, but manages against logic and nature to bear it's own shrivelled, husky fruit. While it can be argued that the latter is the more impressive as it has clearly had a harder time of things than it's counterpart, you'll find that most still prefer to eat from the first tree and for good reason.

[@espio87]

Nice analogy.

[@BananaDispenser]

That's a shit analogy.

[@Deathstorm501]

@@BananaDispenser Explain?

[@Woynich]

I think it’s not a shit analogy so much as your perspective is different. Different in that you would eat the rubbish apple in this analogy and like it.

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

@@Deathstorm501 dude has a bias against apples, obviously.

[@henrye3935]

One of my screenwriting professors once told me "don't let perfect get in the way of quite good." I've lived by it ever since.

[@StrikeWarlock]

Pretty much the entire theme of The Green Knight. Why greatness? Is goodness not enough?

[@zeitgeistindustries1792]

Shit, don't let it get in the way of "mediocre" either. Start at "somewhat passable" and improve from there

[@Chris_Sizemore]

The most important lesson to take from Bob's Game: It is better to make something and release it than to get stuck not producing something. There are literally thousands of guys that started where Bob did and became more successful because they released a crappy game that hardly nobody cares about on Steam simply because they did release a game. Bob at least had a partial success. Releasing a demo is something, even if it is disappointing that he couldn't string enough bits together to make something Bob could claim was a full game.

[@HonkeyKongLive]

Another important lesson is that a big part of the creative process is making something, releasing it, and learning from that experience how to make the next one. Far too many creatives spend so much time on their first creation that it envelopes them because, from their perspective, it represents years and years of their life and who knows how much emotional input.

[@johnbeauvais3159]

Something Yahtzee himself said on one of his Dev Diary videos is “You can’t criticize a work unfinished and that’s doubly true for a work not started.” And he is right and I think that’s why so many people, myself included, hit this threshold of “this is tangible enough to see the vision, but unrefined enough to keep critics at bay”

[@zephyr8072]

The fact that today you can find any number of solo developed indie games made by people who actually bothered to work within the system on the Nintendo Switch makes this whole saga and Bob’s stupidity extra funny.

[@BLZ231]

To be fair Nintendo wasn’t quite as open to working with indie developers back then as they are now.

[@spagootest2185]

​@@BLZ231 indie games in general weren't as big as they are now, too

[@ab2aasd]

I love that McDonner Party is a recurring gag

[@MackRangerPower]

I miss Lee Drummond

[@benbarnard0605]

@@MackRangerPower it's a shame Yahtzee burned his house down

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

The Donner party? Ya hear that, gang? They knew how to have a good time!

[@MandleRoss]

@@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS Yes, they deserve a hand from everyone for that.

[@otherhand]

I found it interesting how the role of the "Bob" character kept going back and forth between being an obvious over-the-top villain, and being more of a protagonist, and sometimes being both at once. That wasn't really mentioned here. It became obvious that Pelloni was playing a "heel" of sorts... and his "Greatest Game Ever" hyperbole was part of the increasingly bizarre meta-fiction surrounding the game's plot that included, of course, a conspiracy-laden games industry bent on brainwashing children. The puzzle game was fully released for a while and it was cool enough. Pelloni has, or at least had, legitimate writing talent and the ability to create some very memorable situations and narratives. Hell, even the music in the game was pretty catchy... but there's some obvious signs of mental illness and difficulty separating reality from fiction that took place at some point along the line, and it was really sad to watch. Somewhere there's an alternate universe where he got his stupid NDS devkit and the game probably ended up as a nice little cult classic.

[@JohnA...]

So basically Bob is Alex Jones without the massive audience. Started out with a little talent and some interesting ideas, and somewhere along the way took that leap into the deep end of insanity. Does Bob also believe in galactic, interdimensional, demonic aliens with odd perversions towards getting humans to do terrible things for some unknown reason?

[@unusualusername8847]

Not a fan of how you use protagonist as a stand-in for "hero" because the opposing role you assign is villain. Its protagonist and antagonist or hero and villain. This isn't a pick and mix bag

[@classicdetective1086]

​@@unusualusername8847 a protagonist is a character the narrative follows whereas a villain is the central character to a narratives conflict. the original commenter isn't saying that Bob was an antagonist; as in, actively opposing himself. rather, he was saying he was central to the conflict. it would have been more incorrect if he'd not done a "pick and mix". you can tell this is the case because he says "sometimes both at once."

[@DisAnimated]

1:20 can we appreciate the pun/witty insult of saying the an artist could only draw a curtain.

[@somebonehead]

Or alternatively, a playing card.

[@ElementalScepticism]

"He didn't seem to understand that the game's significance within his own life didn't translate into significance to anyone else." This seems to be especially prevalent among creatives in general. They believe they have the next big thing, but tastes exist, and what one person might find extremely palatable garnished with genius, others might find to be dog shit covered in baby vomit.

[@geldonyetich]

From the looks of some of those blog screencaps, Bob's just prone to fanaticism. While that is a potential source of creative drive for some, it's not really a characteristic of "creatives in general." You're probably just noticing a vocal minority.

[@ShePudding]

That sort of belief in the value of your work, without external validation, is necessary to some degree. No matter how brilliant you are, if you think your work is shit, you’re never going to share it (if you ever even invested your time). Now, having ALL of the belief with ZERO external validation… you’re either Diogenes, or you’re insane. Probably both, lol

[@finngswan3732]

Disagree. As a creative and someone who follows and listens to other creatives, the "general" consensus is "My work pretty okay. I'm shocked anyone cares."

[@minhkhangtran6948]

@@finngswan3732 Yeah, the fact that it’s actually hard to reach the equivalent of a solid 6 in the first place, reallly doesn’t help with one confidence

[@ElementalScepticism]

I feel like I should probably make it clear that I'm not saying everyone is like Bob - humility is also natural amongst creatives. I'm a creative, been around them most of my life. But, like Pudding said, that belief in your work is necessary. Believing that you have the next big thing is necessary to thrive as a creative, because if you constantly invalidate your own creations, and you're constantly feeling like your work doesn't measure up, then you won't get anywhere. It's not just prevalent, it's necessary. Even if it's a tiny grain of hope. I feel like I probably should've made it clear that creatives don't have as big an ego as Bob. They just want to believe in their work, and fight for the work's right to be noticed.

[@thedogmaticdirector]

Knowing that Yahtz knows about Yandere Sim is a concoction I'd love to see to fruition IF, and this is a big IF, Yandere Sim was a game with any sort of prospect of ever seeing the light of day as a finished game.

[@RustoKomuska]

I'm pretty sure it got finished a couple of months ago for real this time

[@drdca8263]

@@RustoKomuska oh? Huh, I’m pretty sure I’ll never play it, but I still have sorta positive feelings about it having been completed.

[@XBladeVanitas]

@@drdca8263 nah it's not finished and isn't anywhere close to being finished, it still only has one of the planned 12 rivals lol

[@Kaunte]

What even is that? I'm afraid to Google it

[@Krwzprtt]

@@Kaunte Oof, to put it very simple, it's a game project about a teenage girl who's insanely in love with a random dude at her school and decides to remove potential rivals, mostly through murder, as the developper described it as "hitman-like". The problem is that said developper is 1) a very bad game developper, as his code apparently is amateurish at best and his project managment skills laughable, causing him to waste years without making significant progress, 2) a massive creep who quickly appeared to use weird anime tropes 100% unironically, up to and including sexualisation of minors (including a mechanic revolving around taking POV shots of high schooler's underpants as black market currency), 3) a huge prick who spent most of his online time complaining about people pointing out he sucks at game development, insulting his own fans and threatening anyone trying to emulate the project in a not-shit way with lawsuits and harrassment.

[@JustSomeDinosaurPerson]

Bob's game is one of the most bizarre cases of potential trolling I have ever seen. To this day I still don't understand why he didn't just make the game on PC and shoot for the stars as an indie dev.

[@AverageUtubeCommenter]

Exactly. If bob's game became popular on pc he might've been able to get it ported to the ds/switch/etc. eventually like stardew valley and undertale did. He had the process backwards basically.

[@fifzeppelin]

I remember being so baffled that he complained so much about companies being in control of everything and squeezing out the little guy at the time when self publishing online for the PC was essentially beginning a huge influx of really well known solo indie devs and both PS3 and Xbox were publishing quite a number of downloadable games from random people already. Just ignore Nintendo dude they've always been this way.

[@keltzar1]

Hardcore Nintendo fans kind of baffle me sometimes. Like the people salivating over something getting ported to a nintendo console or furious that it won't, even if it's an indie game which could run on the lowest of low end computers.

[@bitwolfy]

Nintendo fans are the most cult like outa the big 3, there was a reviewer talking about the Steam Deck, in which he mentioned there was hundreds of games he was missing on steam (despite having a very expensive gaming pc) because he wanted them on Switch. Which sounded fair, until he revealed he hardly ever played in handheld and his Switch was basically glued to the dock. No other reason than just he was a Nintendo fan. I really, really don't get Nintendo fans.

[@Trynt33]

@@bitwolfy Maybe he's just not a fan of handhelds and he got shoved a Steam Deck by his boss?

[@CMSonYT]

@@keltzar1 tbf, nintendo devices are low end computers. They're literally a generation or close it versus other consoles So.....

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

@@bitwolfy I mean... The guy can just prefer it docked on his TV. What does the preferred method of using the console he likes have to do with any of this? That's like saying you don't get Sony fans cause they put stickers on their PlayStation

[@cptnqusr]

"yes i would like fries with that" is your most brutal line to date

[@TrueRahf]

I am in the Twilight Zone right now. Was listening to a very old episode of the Giant Bombcast, named 12-23-2008. They started talking about "Bob's Game" and the circus that was this man not 10 minutes ago. Then I open KZbin and the latest ZP is the top suggestion, with this title. Man...weird coincidence. Oh, and having followed this saga when it happened, I am fairly convinced Bob suffers from bipolar disorder. Those mental turns were incredible. It went from standing on the highest of horses, to being in absolute despair.

[@gatotsu2501]

Bob wrote a huge confessional post on his blog at some point and he 100% has some kind of undiagnosed psychotic disorder and likely has for his entire life. He repeatedly flips back and forth between bitter self-deprecation and describing himself in total sincerity as a genius and even a god or messiah. He’s obsessed with “mind control” and gives the impression of phasing in and out of self-awareness and control over his own behavior. He even hints he may be a psychopath and confesses to some highly disturbing antisocial behavior throughout his life, though he seems at least somewhat self-aware and guilty in retrospect. So the basic assessment here seems right, that he’s a highly intelligent and gifted programmer whose potential indie dev career was sabotaged by his mental illness and (related to mental illness) his extreme ego, antisocial behavior and delusions of grandeur.

[@Pineappolis]

To this day, I still find it hilarious that Cave Story has been one of my favourite games of all time pretty much since it came out in its original form and yet, for the vast majority of that time and due to my total lack of understanding of the industry until quite recently, I had _absolutely_ no idea how culturally important it was. I didn't even know its English name - to me, it was just this weird little thing called, "Doukutsu," I found one day (Christ knows how) that was unaccountably a free download from its official source despite being, you know, bloody amazing.

[@MouseDenton]

"One shitty released game is worth more than an infinite number of unfinished career-defining masterpieces." Fuck that one hits home.

[@piemaster1288]

I can definitely see the danger in becoming too obsessed with perfection. I personally write fun little stories in my spare time, but I would much rather release them with a few flaws or errors than obsess over it for years.

[@geldonyetich]

The story of Bob's Game was very interesting! And yes, towards the end, I'm a bit called out about my own perfectionism getting in the way of ever releasing anything, but I knew that.

[@eileenheath1968]

Same. However, there is a responsibility to quality. The best advice I got was the same as what was given near the end of this: don't make "your baby" your intro to the scene. Release something just to prove to yourself that you can and use that project to check for bumps. Kinda like the time I received an email reminding me of my upcoming job interview but the entire job description and duties were changed to nothing I was qualified for. I decided "Screw it - I need to learn how to fall, I need the experience of trying for a job I know I can't get." and I went in. And got the job. The knob heads at the placement agency sent me the wrong data on the job. So if you make a Fallout Mod where you play a merchant touring the wasteland but don't think it's interesting enough to get people to play - heck, try anyway. At least you can "control the fall" when you expect to fail and the surprise at succeeding is so much more rewarding.

[@tambaloneusderpaloneus6626]

@@eileenheath1968 I spent quite a bit of time finding & configuring mods in Skyrim to play as a merchant wandering town to town! Sometimes taking that chance will absolutely make a niche of people extremely happy. Also if anyone is reading this wanting to make a game where you are a lowly merchant struggling to make it in a world you're not the "hero" of or have god given 'yelling things of cliffs' powers hit me up when it's done. Day 1 purchase!

[@JohnDoe-vm5rb]

Reccetear sounds your thing then. You're a girl desperately trying to pay the rent.

[@hatknuckles3658]

@@tambaloneusderpaloneus6626 I believe you can do that in Kenshi

[@yunume]

This gave me something personal to reflect on as it concerns my own artistic projects. It was this part, "He had talent and drive and a mostly finished product that clearly resonated with people, but fatally he also had an ego like a crashing blimp at a wedding photoshoot..... One shitty released game is worth more than an infinite number of unfinished career-defining masterpieces." Yahtzee, you've always been entertaining, but today you were also the voice I needed to hear. Great video!

[@eeyuup]

Scott Cawthon creator of Five Nights at Freddy's released many games which were failures critically and commercially before FNAF changed his career and created an entire subgenre of horror games.

[@arcanum3000]

I find it ironic that Bob, who (maybe?) made an unremarkable and never fully released action RPG thing, acted like this, while Zach and Tarn Adams, creators of Dwarf Fortress, which could much more credibly be called a "tour de force masterpiece" created by "geniuses", seem to be pretty down to earth and notably not psychotically egotistical weirdos.

[@Pak_Industrial]

I like how instead of completely redoing the title card and pretending that we didn't used to say that "special" word yatzee leans into the fact that there's been a generational shift since he started producing content. It's a bit more honest than pretending it never happened at all.

[@gabrielegenota1480]

I like that. Recognizing that times change and not doubling down on the past but not Tiananmen Square-ing it either

[@Riboshom]

Could also just be a last minute change after youtube automatically demonetized the video after initial upload, so it was replaced before putting it public. Not the first time Yathzee ran into that issue.

[@wheedler]

@@Riboshom That would be impressive; most people on KZbin would rather do anything than record new lines to make corrections. They usually just flash a footnote you have to pause to read.

[@BottomOfTheDumpsterFire]

@@Riboshom Nah, it's on the Escapist site too, it was intentional.

[@Alloveck]

He does deserve some credit for not completely erasing the original version, but I'd give him a lot more credit for not changing the title at all.

[@urulai]

That lesson of learning to accept something that is good enough rather than perfect hits home for me as an artist who makes a living selling his services online.

[@Kranzio-]

“Don’t put too much of yourself into the game!” said Trilby, the wise-cracking gentleman thief named after the dumb hat that he mercifully no longer wears.

[@jensenwalsh621]

Well there is a difference between putting yourself in a game as a cheeky roman a clef (three times, in fact) and making an entire game based on your life and obsessing over how perfectly it depicts you as some kind of new-age prophet. Though, I do know you're just giving Yahtzee a little rib over his old choice in headwear.

[@adamhowe2423]

Yahtzee may literally put himself into his games sometimes, but he never caught magnum-opus syndrome like Bob, and that's what he's really warning us about.

[@jensenwalsh621]

@@adamhowe2423 Oh sorry, that's what I meant to put in there. Yahtz would always do his best to make games that were short and functional, which played well to the level of resources that he had at his disposal. That way he would actually finish his games. Bob, however, wanted to make a sprawling epic, which one rando in his basement couldn't as easily accomplish. Really shows the difference in technique that they had, and why Yahtz has been so much more successful than Bob

[@Carlos-ln8fd]

I think he meant don't see the success of the game as a measure of your self-worth

[@jensenwalsh621]

@@Carlos-ln8fd That too

[@tsukiumika5807]

Well this was weirdly humbling as an aspiring creative. Weird to see the lessons learned through the years be put up as a cautionary tale of what happens when you let your ego get too big

[@starmaker75]

I guess this series is about Ego getting too big. Weather it be marketing team, publishers, developers both big and small

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

@@quintessenceSL @quintessenceSL So long as a team of say delusional egotistical procrastinating and money wasting devs can actually PUBLISH a finished product, the entire situation will probably turn out okay. Many egotistical indie devs end up burning through all the kickstarter money without ever even completing a finished product

[@dopaminecloud]

@@SurprisinglyDeep if all you care about is results i don't really care for whatever your process is

[@Timmy_T]

Indie devs should be their own harsh critic. Too many people are playing around with Unity/Unreal/Blender and then call themselves "game devs". Thats why I'll never forget your book writing advice. Write one page a day, complete the story, critique the hell out of it, fix it until you have a good finish book. Same should be done with video games.

[@jmurray1110]

And he sure to have a third party look over it so you don’t miss stupid stuff like forgetting to tutorialise how your obscure inventory opening mechanism works

[@superchroma]

Refactoring a finished or nearly finished software project is not a brilliant idea. Better to reach to industry practices and jot down some requirements for the code you're writing and think about the software architecture of the program you want to make.

[@regalvas]

That is hard when people have a hard time with negativity.

[@MrHazz111]

This can easily go overboard. It's better to have other people that you trust critique your work for you, since you are always your own worst critic. (barring egomaniacs)

[@victorwagner2423]

@@superchroma Every heard of agile cycle?

[@bluecoin3771]

One of the Ferenghi Rules of Acquisition states, “Dignity and an empty sack is worth only the empty sack.” I think that rule definitely applies here.

[@newtthelizardwizard]

A few more points about this story: -At one point Bob went to the Nintendo Store in NYC to enact, and I'm quoting here, "Level 50 of his newly revived protest." This involved hiring two girls from presumably an escort service who helped him place posters for the game on the walls and windows and drop business cards on the floor. -His Kickstarter asked for a surprisingly low amount, which makes sense when you consider most of the development had already been done, but the Kickstarter clarifies it's so low because he's going to use the money to purchase a van to live out of and finish developing the game in. -A version of bob's game was actually released on the Ouya of all things. Falls in line with the developer-centric nature of the Ouya's launch I suppose, and that might actually be the only way you can play it now because the game was delisted from Steam just last year, but not before Bob changed the name to "ok" and the banner image to a picture of his face. What an odd man.

[@Powoga]

I thought you couldn't really play anything on the Ouya anymore since they shut down the servers, or something like that.

[@legatelaurie]

@@Powoga Maybe on the Ouya device but the files are still playable on other devices without too much hassle

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

Damn i wanna play ok - the game now

[@greenhat8978]

I will be honest, during the end credits I expected the head to pop, so what actually happened made me chuckle

[@wheedler]

Thank you for your honesty.

[@micheljavert5923]

This is either an example of lessons to learn in the industry, or how beneficial it would be if mental health care was both easily accessible and non-stigmatized. Bob may have been an auteur, but the fact that he was completely and totally starkers (either before or after starting his game) seems like the central problem.

[@OdaSwifteye]

I don't know whose stigmatizing mental health, just about anyone will start telling you to see a therapist or take medication or undergo drastic surgery if you seem unwell in any sort of way. But yeah, Bob's mental health is the problem but he doesn't know that and that's the bigger problem. You just can't force someone to address their mental health issues because they have a mental health problem. They have to check themselves in and they're the last person to admit they have a problem.

[@ProxyDoug]

@@OdaSwifteye And who knows, perhaps Bob just didn't understood how the industry worked and felt attacked when things didn't went as expected, which not knowing what was the right thing to do. The 2000s was an era filled with people discovering the internet and trying to make sense of it.

[@legatelaurie]

I'm really hesitant around a lot of the comments talking about Bob, because he really does seem to have had a bad breakdown in the last couple years he was working on the game. Recently in private emails between him and a fan which were put up on a public discord and then deleted he talked about finding god and that his life is now dedicated to god after finding the way, etc. At least from what you could see from these emails he seems in a slightly better state than he did during some of the game's development and he's now moved past the game too

[@melancholyentertainment]

To me it seems clear as day Bob is a character

[@sunlitsonata6853]

YIIK A Postmodern RPG is what would happen if Bob’s Game actually came out

[@sweatyslapfight7900]

Ah YIIK. I wish Yahtzee would have covered that torture. It is such great material to make him rage.

[@tsunderefandomer3425]

Maybe he’ll take a look when the Version IV update comes. Probably not but we can hope.

[@HellecticMojo]

Look, if you want to kill Yahtzee, just shoot him. No need to turn a simple murder into crimes against humanity.

[@nicomoron001]

ah yes "yiik", made by "ackk", both sound like someone throwing up. the best thing about the game is that Alex (main character) was universally hated by everyone who played the game... and it turned out to be an author self-insert... yikes.

[@sullivanzany8091]

It is impossible to watch this video without expecting Chris Chan references. Great work as always, I would thoroughly enjoy more of these video game history videos.

[@eileenheath1968]

Kind of like a masters class - only it should read "bastard's class" for all the snark and backhands.

[@CaylexT]

Besides this being the first time a ZP “moments in gaming history” told me a story that I wasn’t already familiar with, what really strikes me is the eerie similarities to TempleOS, another product of a talented individual with wild mood swings.

[@wheedler]

Except TempleOS actually was a grand achievement.

[@JohnnyThousand605]

same here

[@CaylexT]

@@JohnnyThousand605 I think they had the same demons. The ego, the delusions of grandeur, the more sensible, lucid periods contrasted with intense ranting pseudo-religious mania.

[@backlogbuddies]

No Terry A Davis had schizophrenia. He was in the care of his parents because he couldn't take care of himself.

[@poika22]

Terry Davis wrote his own compiler and operating system, had a master's degree in electrical engineering, worked in the industry as a professional for years and built functioning devices like laser cutters as a hobby. Comparing him to some guy who made half of an RPGmaker game with MSpaint art is an insult.

[@aaronlaluzerne6639]

This really is a good story of indie developers to watch and listen to and to learn from.

[@triplehate6759]

"Art is the compromise between your vision and reality" - Ross Scott Bob clearly refused to make that compromise, and thus he unwittingly turned his game into a piece of performance art instead.

[@Zethneralith]

Given the ending of the story, I think it would have been more appropriate if the game was eventually released exclusively for TempleOS.

[@moonjelly5]

The TempleOS story was more tragic than this one. The TempleOS creator was literally Schizophrenic and brought down by the horrors of that mental illness.

[@1blackice1]

Highly egotistical and technically skilled mentally ill person solo develops quality software and descends into religious mania, is not something you ever expect to see, let alone twice.

[@Brainulator9]

This might the last time we ever hear this jingle...

[@samwill7259]

Poor guy, something was definatley up with him and it's a shame he never got the help and support he so obviously needed

[@gabbycotto4024]

I mean, props to him for having the integrity to give the money back when he decided to not keep going forward with the project.

[@WarBuch]

This was some of the funniest, best ZP writing yet. Well done!

[@cereal_chick2515]

I find myself returning to this video habitually, almost compulsively, because it very succinctly and with great panache has some very fundamental lessons to teach you about creativity. As I face starting my own game (or rather, think about it endlessly because I don't yet have the skills I am able to learn and the skills that are simply beyond me are not optional), I find it comforting to come back here and absorb the pearls of wisdom Yahtzee has to offer anew. And, y'know, at the very least, whatever becomes of my project, I'm fairly confident that I won't become a latter-day Robert Pelloni.

[@MrMcJazzhands]

I'd never heard of this until now. All I can say is "okay." Seriously though, that's a heck of a ride to take.

[@NowOnAFM]

Well-made video and funny as usual. Indeed, you've described the sad story of Bob's Game down to a T. I was there when this all went down and was quite hyped. Had it been released during 2008 - 2009, it would've been a trailblazer as indie games were still on the rise during that time. But his stubbornness to stick to a stubborn Nintendo and his online antics were the end of him. He could've released it anywhere and increased the hype for ports later down the line, similar to what Cave Story did.

[@TomMcMorrow]

"guide to whoops we don't say that anymore" killed me. 😂

[@Igorcastrochucre]

The key-word about working in any industry is compromise, you need funds to get your project made and people to make it and both investors and workers have a finite amount of time and patience, so sacrificing parts your vision is a necessary step to ensure it will be made.

[@NeverEvenThere]

This sounds like it was actually the saga of a paranoid schizophrenic.

[@GabbyZero]

Ah, so this is the "Empress Theresa" of video games.

[@av3stube480]

'Yes I would like fries with that' Yahtzee, did you really have to murder me like this...

[@ernesto4091]

Looking forward to the franchising of McDonner Party, coming soon to a landfill near you!

[@greghannibal]

Bob: "I found Jesus!" Internet: "....okay."

[@speedracer2please]

I just want you to know how much I appreciate the auteur beret going on top of your existing illustrated hat. Hats off to you.

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

"the vile thing you thinking of that decency preventing me from spelling out" oh Yahtz like it's ever stop you before

[@MadmanEpic]

In 2016 Bob released the puzzle portion of the game as a free standalone multiplayer thing on Steam. It was actually pretty fun until at some point he pulled it down and replaced it in everyone's library with "ok," which has no files and whose library art is an incredibly zoomed-in and stretched photo of his own face.

[@legatelaurie]

In private emails which were made public and then deleted he's said that he's moved on from development totally after finding and dedicating himself to god. I think at some point he probably did have some kind of worse breakdown and that was the result of it

[@snackplaylove]

Don’t think I saw or got to play that. Shame!

[@ClearlyCero]

That was surprisingly more interesting and wholesome than i thought it would be from the video's title. Please don't let it be too long for the next one like this!

[@lus6448]

i think it's pretty clear that bob is actually metally ill

[@INeedTherapy0]

Let's all laugh at an industry that never learns anything tee hee hee

[@TheWhiteFoxTruth]

"Don't put all of yourself into one game. A pile of shitty games is worth more than unfinished masterpieces." That's honestly really fantastic advice for budding game designers. Finish something imperfect before you spend your life making one thing perfect.

[@Skellman98]

He mentioned it in the credits but there is so much more to this story. It's... a trip.

[@Fjordy]

I went down this rabbit hole years ago, and managed reach the website just in time to read his autobiography that he posted there, which is now deleated but can still be found. Its a tell-all wonder of a read. He was definitely not of sound mind but reading through it, I couldn't help but admire his drive, and very inspiring for someone who wanted to be an indie dev. It's similar to Terry Davis in a way, and its sad that such clever minds are plagued by mental illness.

[@yakupo3973]

Stay humble is one of the best pieces of advice you can give

[@Riboshom]

What a trip down memory lane! I remember trying to follow this from a distance at the time: the nD console (meant to be sold at 25$ and made from recycled phone parts so as to keep the price down), the guy's weird obsession with Reggie, the game-within-a-game that's just Tetris 2, getting thrown out of stores for putting up fake boxes and posters for his game, the stream where he went mad and pretended to die... It's so weird to see Yathzee talk about all this. It wasn't some kind of half-forgotten dream after all!

[@SnuSnuDungeon]

Love hearing that jingle once again

[@gus.smedstad]

This reminds me of Mighty Shooter, which was kind of similar only substantially less insane. It was another kickstarter for an indie game with a $10k goal, only it was a "turn based R-type" rather than a top-down RPG. Contributing to that is one of the things that taught me not to contribute to Kickstarter projects.

[@bigtastyben5119]

A friend of mine roomed with Bob (dunno if he still does) but apparently he's even more eccentric in person and good friends with Phil Fish

[@legatelaurie]

I've heard that he's friends with Phil Fish from other places too. You'd think he'd have given him some more advice, but I guess Fish isn't that much less eccentric

[@bigtastyben5119]

@@legatelaurie When you get two egomaniacs who spend hours on Skype stroking each other's egos is it any wonder why they cancelled Fez 2 and Bob's Game themselves?

[@manavsridharan3811]

God I love that jingle

[@gokusondbz]

We Need a 1 Hour Extended Version

[@DanGamingFan2406]

Ooh! I was worried this series had been abandoned. But, yeah. If he had just deflated his ego a bit, and settled for a PC Release, we could have had an at least decent game on our hands.

[@norjia]

I love how only half of the first joke is censored. Honestly makes it even funnier

[@IEcLiPsEI95]

I love the fact that you are throwing shades at Yandere Sim, can't believe that are people still support that hack after all those years

[@domh4201]

Thanks Yahtz. I needed that advice at the end.

[@hopefulhyena3400]

“One shitty released game is better than an unreleased masterpiece” is something I will be using to “encourage” friends and self, I think - even though we don’t make games.

[@JonFawkes]

This seems like a topic that Fredrik Knudsen would cover. Really interesting, I kind of want to learn more, if only out of that morbid curiosity that the internet seems to have for people like Chris Chandler or Terry Davis

[@Juan_Night_Stand]

It actually was covered in a similar rabbit hole research fashion by Atrocity Guide, the title is Bob vs Nintendo: The Story of Bob's Game.

[@JonFawkes]

@@Juan_Night_Stand I just watched that, fantastic video, really fascinating, and really speaks to the state of how mental health is treated

[@kobalt_ren01]

Glad to see McDonner Party still keeping its doors open.

[@FiresofShadow]

The ending strangely struck a chord with me.

[@gleegoo8889]

I did not expect to get smacked for not working on my writing project in a while today,,but I guess I’ll get back to it

[@Nathanael_Forlorn]

Man I love being surprised by the (secondary) jingle intro. (laughing at the never learning industry) Don't know why exactly, but it immediately makes me a bit happier.

[@IndorilTheGreat]

Bob sounds like he's got some textbook Type B personality disorders.

[@onewingedangel2479]

The sprite of Bob with his head up his ass might be one of the funniest ones I've seen on this series lol.

[@SoldierDelta]

Single developers are fascinating, as mentioned. An uncompromised vision will speak more words than most AAA games, but the issue with that is that those words will usually be comprised of swearing and resentment. A good indie game is good, there's no doubt about that. Undertale and Stardew Valley are undeniably two of the most important indie games of all time simply because Toby Fox and Eric Barone were able to not only finish their visions, but make them comprehensible... 9/10 times in the case of Toby. However, Sturgeon's Law applies. Ego is a big case for this, and there's a second Reta- I mean... Special moment that needs to be mentioned. Digital Homicide and the Hack Steam Devs. I didn't think there was enough ego in the world for what they did, let alone what happened before with Bob's Game. Honestly, using a vague data set of undiscernible developers, I can limit down the best kind of developers into two camps. Smart and Creative. Smart developers are able to take a base concept and find ways to adapt it to other ideas. Tetsuya Takahashi of Monolith Soft is my favourite example, because a lot of his ideas are reused in Xenogears, Xenosaga and Xenoblade, but all of the stories feel distinct and separate. Creative developers are able to make consistently different ideas and combine them, namely people like Toby Fox who can make segments of his game as weird as he likes but still make it understandable and connect with the other tangential ideas. These types of developers are not mutually exclusive, but people like Digital Homicide is the void of either. Rereleasing the same shit expecting to make a quick buck while also being a ""genius"" in their own view... so basically an Indie Equivalent of Ubisoft.

[@kap1618]

Also people like Toby never expected their games to be big hits. Even he went on record thinking the game will be niche.

[@BadAnalogy91]

I am SO using that last quip in future situations.

[@Agentporpoise]

Why in the bloody hell have I watched this video like four times since it came out? Anyone else rewatch zero punctuations a lot?

[@terratorment2940]

Congratulations to Bob. His cunning attempt to convince everyone he was utterly insane successfully convinced everyone he was utterly insane.

[@ovahlord1451]

This sounds like a perfect subject for a down the rabbit hole video lmao

[@DeadlyYellow]

God, this is tickling some memory of an indie GBA project I stumbled upon years and years ago. Can't remember much beyond it being a metroidvania with gorgeous spritework.

[@meapickle]

So I just visited his kick starter page. And yeah majority of it is less about the game and more about his journey up to that point, which I won't lie is rather fascinating to read

[@BoBnfishy]

This was unique. Glad I never heard of it when it was still a thing, but nice to hear about it

[@amazedalloy]

Funny enough, if this happened now, he might have actually gotten a dev kit

[@jacobdagun3670]

You know, I'd heard vague mention of this happening once, and the guy who mentioned never mentioned what game it was or who was behind it, so it's just sat in my brain for years now being a kind of "Huh, I don't know if this happened for real or not, and I have just enough info about it that I can't even look it up". And then this video happened. Thank you so much for clarifying what a random KZbin comment I saw back in high school had spoken about.

[@Xfushion2]

I don't remember who said this phrase but it pretty sums up what game development is all about: _You don't earn money by making games, _*_you earn it by shipping them_* Your game can in theory be perfect and all but it basically doesn't exist until is a finished product and people have actually consumed it and formed their own opinions about it.

[@MobileTech296]

It’s been a crappy week but as soon as that jingle started I was immediately smiling and singing along. Thank you Yahtzee.

[@MiaowGaiGar]

I can't help but feel like the closing thoughts of the video were actually about when Yahtzee learned to stop wearing that trilby unironically.

[@OdaSwifteye]

I'm pretty sure he genuinely liked the trilby hat at one point and got peer pressured out of wearing it.

[@slayermate07]

that wonderful jingle yet again brightens my day...

[@kennynitro17]

God I remember finding some demo gameplay around 2012-13 and falling down a rabbithole trying to figure out what the fuck he was on about and if the game was "pretty much done" why it needed to be on DS instead of a ROM hack or something. I think I found one video that managed to neatly summarize everything after only finding few articles and clusterfuck forum pages but after a while I found the devs attitude so unpleasant I didn't care for the game that much and I completely forgot about it since

[@KeithFraser82]

Zero Punctuation "quirky" indie rock track of the week: *Cave Story Ate Your Lunch* by the *Weirdo Encouragers*

[@talleywa5772]

That closing line was despicable. More please.