The Westminster Assembly

In this brief clip from his teaching series A Survey of Church History, W. Robert Godfrey examines the importance of the Westminster Assembly. Watch this entire message for free. www.ligonier.org/learn/daily-...

[@WildernessApologetics]

Literally just about to study the Westminster Assembly for my dissertation today. This was great timing!

[@davidlinton8238]

I love you guys but these short slippers don’t draw down on any conclusion. Please force him to draw a conclusion.

[@ljjdcm]

The doctrines were full of error and not inspired but have ever sense been defended as gospel truth becoming traditions that nullified the word of God And prevented the any continued reformation

[@stemofthefly]

Larry Johnston Can you back up your statement with any examples?

[@cork8843]

Larry Johnston If you mean their doctrines were full of error... you can always pick up a copy of the Westminster confession of faith; and read the (Scripture Proofs) listed in each article within each doctrine. The Confession of Faith derives it’s information from the Inspired Scripture so yes, it’s not inspired but the Divines studied the Word before applying their doctrines. If you use the confession without holding to the Bible, then you would be committing mere tradition on a regular basis, and as far as nullifying the word of God, again their doctrines were from the Bible to begin with.

[@ljjdcm]

Northern Ice Yeah I’m aware that it’s based on scripture but it’s based on their scriptural understanding from the 16 century. I think they did an amazing job for the era but that it’s credulous to think that these guys got everything just perfectly right. Another guy on this Video comment section asked me a question and I’m getting ready to post stuff there to answer him.

[@ljjdcm]

stemofthefly The first prime example is the Westminster in regard to “The Law” (XVIIII 6). It is not “useful to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin” - for the Bible says the Law is the strength of sin and it “arouses our sinful passions” (Romans 7:5) - vs. “sin shall no longer have dominion over you because you are NOT under the law but under grace”. Then it says “and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law”. This is saying (I’m paraphrasing here)- we are no longer under the curse of the law BUT if you disobey the law you can expect bad (in essence you’re gonna be cursed). BUT if you obey the law you’re going to be blessed - not because of your obedience of course, but only because of grace. “The promises of it, in like manner, show them God’s approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof; although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works”. It’s all a bunch of double talk based on the 16th century understanding by folks trying to escape the Catholic belief system but could only go so far. The thinking of the day is characterized in what was added at the end Romans 8:1 KJV - they could not conceptionalize grace without making it contingent on your self effort determined behavior and performance (obedience). So, in essence they mixed law in with grace thus creating a different gospel (Galatians‬ ‭1:6). While the law is not done away with, it has been fulfilled by Christ. It is what brings us to Christ (Gal. 3:24). It is holy, righteous and good (Rom. 7:12) but it can’t make us holy, righteous or good. For us it is the ministry of death engraved on stones/ the ministry of condemnation (II Corinthians‬ ‭3:7-9), the strength of sin and it makes faith void and the promise of no effect (Romans 4:13-14). The guys that put together the Westminster just didn’t have a good understanding of Grace as this section on “The Law” so clearly demonstrates. They were still locked into the concept of do good - get good / do bad - get bad which is the essence of the law. It doesn’t take the Holy Spirit to understand that, but it does take the Holy Spirit to believe that you can get good that you don’t deserve because someone else (the Lord) received the bad that you did deserve.

[@ljjdcm]

stemofthefly The second prime example is “Justification” XI #5,6 “God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified; and although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may by their sins fall under God’s fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.” 1Jn 1:9 “The justification of believers under the Old Testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.” The law was given by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. There’s been a change. Under the law God says if you were to break one commandment you were guilty of all and he would by no means overlook your sins but visit them on your children’s children up to the third and fourth generation- with the curse of the Law (54 verses in Deuteronomy 28) vs. under Grace He says “their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more” (Heb. 10). In practice this false doctrine has led to the idea that sin will cause you to loose your righteousness and your fellowship with God -for He will turn his back on you until you repent and confess your sins to become righteous again. Under the law you had to confess your sins to be forgiven and offer a sacrifice but under grace all of our sins are forgiven because of Christ’s one and forever effective sacrifice that never needs repeating (Heb 10) and so when we confess our sin we confess them because we ARE forgiven -not in order TO BE forgiven - and when we sin we don’t lose our righteousness because righteousness was imputed to us by one man’s (Jesus’s) obedience (Romans‬ ‭5:17-21 ) - and that righteousness is called the righteousness of faith which is a gift that is everlasting (Daniel 9:24) -and we don’t lose our fellowship with God -he doesn’t turn away from us - why? because he’s already turned away from Jesus on the cross when he was made sin with our sin -therefore to turn away from us and punish us for our sins now when they were judged and punished in Christ on the cross would make God unrighteous. These misunderstandings are why first John 1:9 is such a critical part of the reformed church services (when it wasn’t even written to believers but was written for the benefit of the unbelievers). Hebrews 10 dispels the notion of the need to confess sins continually to be forgiven - for first John 1:9 is “a reminder of sin” every week and therefore, the ideal of having a “perfect” conscience and “drawing near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience“ - is undermined - even though that is what God wants us to do - because of what his beloved son did on that cross. There’s probably more but I’m not familiar with much of it (not saying it’s all bad -I’d say most of it is wonderful) but I think that the above is enough to get started in a new direction - but they will defend it with everything they have.

[@skafan89]

why would anyone care about what a bunch of " sinful " men came up with is beyond me. and the fact that it goes against what scripture teaches is crazy hat people hold it tighter than scripture itself

[@skafan89]

@The Pilgrim i d read the Bible and i have sinned, but when i do a topic study i look at all of scripture on a topic and not throw it all away when i read one verse .

[@skafan89]

@The Pilgrim calvinism is not biblical and its why i comment on it . the ideas that augustine has in his head when reading scripture did not come from scripture or the spirit who is the one who guides us through it as we read it, no Augustine had certain people before him that gave him thoughts on what he should get , its more than i dont agree with it, its a thorn in the side of Christs church , who He came to die for and takes away from Gods will .

[@skafan89]

@The Pilgrim you must believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved . and yes calvinism is unbiblical. every one of the points are .

[@skafan89]

@The Pilgrim i did answer it , and unfortunately the calvinist view of Jesus is very different from what scripture teaches though .

[@skafan89]

@The Pilgrim sure you do . so who did Jesus come here for ?

[@hexahexametermeter]

Just over a minute? Worthless.

[@ta3p-theannex3project84]

Bunch off old man telling people what, when and how to think.

[@stemofthefly]

TA3P - The Annex 3 Project I have no idea of their ages so I am unable to speak to your remark concerning “old man.” However, it’s evident from their work that they were intending to provide clarity to what scripture teaches (this is evident in their citation of scripture to support their statements throughout the entire body of work). Why do you believe that it was an attempt to tell people “what, when and how to think?”

[@ta3p-theannex3project84]

@@stemofthefly read it and think for yourself.

[@davidlinton8238]

TA3P - The Annex 3 Project ain’t it great.

[@ta3p-theannex3project84]

@@davidlinton8238 makes life easy.

[@ta3p-theannex3project84]

@The Pilgrim ok when you chose to live by an ancient book . The rest of the world moves on. But dont tell others to do the same.