The Wheel Of Time Sucks: RESPONSE

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Edit: To people saying "It is an April fools joke!" It is not. It has been up for over a year and he has never claimed it to be one. He has responded to people criticizing it well after April harshly defending the article. It is not a joke. I want to make this absolutely clear; I have no issue with Garret on a personal level. This video should purely be taken about responsibility when speaking about others/posting reviews. Do your research. Don’t lie about content. Don’t claim fowl play when you have zero evidence. Content creators have a responsibility to check what they are saying. People will hear what we say and RUN WITH IT. That is why my Goodkind video relies on direct quotes and in context statements. Not speculation and hunches.

[@korytoombs886]

I personally liked the WOT, but the characters are not the best written. All the women share similar characteristics: they get angry quickly, they are easily annoyed by the simplest of things, they tug their hair, their inner dialogue about men is very similarly negative, they talk about how men don't understand, and how the men should know better, and how try to figure out different way to manipulate men and other people in general. This guy's article seems very sexist and poorly researched, but yes, the characters, especially the women are not as well written as you present in this video. In fact, I would so far as to say many of them are carbon copies of each other, with different names, titles, and positions to make them seem as very different. I think my favorite female character in fantasy would be Rhapsody, from the Symphony of Ages series. This is how female character should be written inmo, or even the main lead from Mistborn.

[@101Waylander]

He seems to be a wanna be author. The "joke" got him responses, got him noticed by fantasy readers. Not all of those readers enjoyed the Wheel of Time, unlike yourself as well as me (in fact I've just started a re-read yet again as I love it so much). As a result those who might agree with him could possibly be tempted to check out his books that he provides a link to at the end of his article. After posting the article he may well have seen an increase in his sales, which in turn led him to leave the article up. Anyway, whatever the true reason for the article, it was a terrible thing to have done. As you say in your video, there are areas in the series that could be improved, it is not perfect. The guy just raves about incorrect information, misleading potential readers of the series with blatant lies. In many respects he comes across like a Donald Trump clone, spreading untruths knowing that a certain base will never bother to fact check him. A rotten thing to do, whether as a joke of as a genuine article regarding a well loved work of fiction. I sincerely hope that he gets what he deserves, failing book sales and a thorough destruction of his chances of ever making a living as an author.

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

@@korytoombs886 I can respect that opinion 100%. :)

[@elguitarolerno]

My Mrs really loved the dark tower series and Harry potter. She has never read LOTR but loves the films. Would WOT be a good Xmas gift? feel free to reply, the defence made of this series in this video has really put me off but other POVs always help

[@kimwarburton8490]

@@elguitarolerno i been re-reading every book iv owned in this series, at least once a year, since i bought the 1st one in the 90s as a teen girl To my mind, the last 3 feel rushed But fantastic story imo better than lotr Edit Better than harry potter. It has the complexity of got books

[@shiptime6458]

Im 73 yrs old , not a very good reader so it's your fault that i started reading these books. I read the whole thing. Glad I did, so thank you. i also live in S.C,

[@elguitarolerno]

My Mrs really loved the dark tower series and Harry potter. She has never read LOTR but loves the films. Would WOT be a good Xmas gift? feel free to reply, the defence made of this series in this video has really put me off but other POVs always help

[@AlMoxtar]

@@elguitarolerno Don't buy someone a book when you don't even know if they want to read it. Buy it for yourself and if you like it, share it.

[@KalRandom]

@@elguitarolerno Get her the first one, and see if it hooks her. Potter is a easy simple read. Now Dark Tower is way more complex, but only if you read King and realize it connects all his books. But WOT has a ton of plots running at same time. So much so I have met readers that just couldn't keep up with everything and quit reading them. I loved them, they started me reading.

[@amysthe-wise-one8493]

@@elguitarolerno I rank WoT above HP and way above the DT series (The ending made me throw my book across the room and I've not re-read it ever, unlike WoT when I'm on re-read #10 now.) Get her the first 3 and let her see. I started reading it in 1992 and had to wait between books. She has the luxury of picking up the next immediately once she's hooked. Is it perfect? No. But there is no perfect book/series.

[@donvineyard8654]

aaa - I think so. The great thing is you can read it multiple ways. I've read it through several times but even now I stumble on a nugget of gold I had missed. Makes the story tons of fun. You don't have to read it analytically, and it will still be a great read.

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

Robert Jordan isn't truly dead. He waits in the World of Dreams until he is spun out into the pattern of the next age. Or, someone blows the Horn.

[@Noctua07]

Let the hunt for the horn begin

[@lordfuqwad666]

I seriously love this comment, thank you

[@_Aceus_]

I agree, this is a very kind thing to say

[@kyra5783]

Damn....that both killed me and blessed me....thank you

[@troyterry5759]

The Authors of the Horn? Or more like "WOULD YOU BE E'DITOR?" Hmm...

[@moomcmoosson1992]

I'd think ghosts/wraiths being bound to an object is a trope much older than Tolkien.

[@timidalchemist8475]

Yep, it started around middle eastern with the folktales with jinns being sealed away.

[@Mrbluefire95]

There are things Tolkien took inspiration from, like Norse myth, etc.

[@nickd5158]

Wait... Tolkein wasn't 100% original!!!! Maybe not even close!!!! Maybe he just redid things in a different way that the average reader found more accessible and interesting and that's okay!!!! Crazy Talk!!!!

[@enaidealukal9203]

Yep. Nothing new under the sun. Even influential/ground-breaking authors like Tolkien are mostly just adapting older material (as Tolkien readily admitted, noting that his series greatly borrowed from Finnish and other mythological traditions)

[@witchsorrowful1918]

Literally part of the Ring des Nibelungen.

[@Mikemk_]

"In the real world, if we had a magical prophecy where it's like, 'This dude is gonna save the world.'" People are still talking about it 2700 years later.

[@saraangel6696]

We should make a religion out of this.

[@richard127gm]

Donald Trump... Anybody? No, probably not.

[@AhsimNreiziev]

+[Sara Angel] Bill Wurtz?

[@indy_go_blue6048]

@@richard127gm Sorry Richard, I thought Obama was "the promised one."

[@Trisjack20]

Well put

[@ak47grizzly]

This dude really said that RJ planned on dying in his 50s.

[@nickd5158]

Exactly. I love WoT. My favorite series ever. I do feel he let it drag a little. Might have even been milking it a little. Definitely planned on finishing it.

[@jayferguson9968]

@@nickd5158 'I do feel he let it drag a little. Might have even been milking it a little. Definitely planned on finishing it.' - I heard that he'd said he was going to drag it out for all of the monies. I stopped collecting at vii and only read the first eight. It was pretty good, but there were too many characters, and too much was going on to care about a lot of it. After a short time, certain people just weren't important enough to keep slogging through.

[@VaultBoy13]

@@jayferguson9968 I agree. Book 7 was when the slog became noticeable enough for me to stop reading the series. It's too bad, because it started off good and the first few books were enjoyable. I had purchased book 8, but never bothered to read it.

[@michaelshort2388]

@@jayferguson9968 I stopped reading at book 10, but I started up again and I am so glad I did.

[@jayferguson9968]

@@michaelshort2388 More power to you, dude. I am in no way trying to convince people to stop, just stating what I feel about it, and why *I* stopped.

[@dratheart]

"The chosen one prophecy" thing goes back to Arthurian literature, The Bible, and probably well before that, too.

[@clairetellkamp6253]

It does. It is part of the "Monomyth" which is a representation of the human psyche as a whole. The idea of a "Chosen One" extends back to Neolithic times.

[@halfrocanadianv5086]

A version of the chosen one sacrificing themselves for their people is a part of almost every cultures history going back to prehistory. I've read articles about that idea was turned into a story to help neolithic peoples learn the value of empathy and cooperation, it's a literal core part of humanity.

[@twenty-fifth420]

Camden Tellkamp While I have my issues with Campbell, yeah that is true.

[@enaidealukal9203]

Well and this particular "factor" at least paid lip-service to the fact that RJ was the one responsible for some of those tropes becoming tropes at all (though not the Chosen One bit, obviously, as that was already a trope when RJ came along), because of how popular and influential WoT was. So criticizing him for using tropes that weren't really tropes until after he used them is obviously not a valid criticism, and ends up being (unwittingly) a compliment instead.

[@ItalianStallionBDM]

*definitely* well before that. The bible is almost completely unoriginal. Look into some comparative mythology

[@thane9]

Those of us reading the books, and active on the boards, when he was diagnosed remember how open and transparent he was, about his illness, about his work, and his desire to finish it. I find it particularly egregious that someone would claim the opposite when it was so clear how bravely and honorably he lived and died.

[@Trisjack20]

And to see the effort he put in that there would be enough notes to help a successor finish it. How amazing do you have to be (and committed to your craft/fans) to be bothered about getting the story told even if you are not there to enjoy the fame of your own huge successful finale. It is annoying he would make that claim.

[@subism1377]

Didn't he and his wife screen Sanderson first too, just to make sure that the series would see justice?

[@Animalace3]

@@subism1377 I do not remember if Robert was there to screen Sanderson, but I know for a fact that his wife most certainly did screen Sanderson and she also helped Sanderson several times with writing the books (cause she had insight as to Robert's plans for the Wheel of Time).

[@subism1377]

@@Animalace3 could've sworn Sanderson said something along those lines, but I've been known to be wrong before

[@Animalace3]

@@subism1377 I'm fairly certain that Robert was also there, but I can't recall definitively if he also screened Sanderson alongside his wife.

[@mattbounds]

"Wheel of Time is too derivative!" "Eye of the World is one of my favorite fantasy books ever!" Bruh

[@StarWarriorMusic]

"It's too derivative but my favorite one is the one just like fellowshipe of the ring!" Lol what a joke of a person.

[@jodiz5901]

EoTW is my favorite book in this, my favorite series!

[@reneaclark7689]

My thoughts exactly! Lol

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

Yes, and “A Song of Ice and Fire” because GRRM is a genius. For adding sex and violence to what would otherwise be like every other fantasy story.

[@David-se5ph]

Doctor Lolchicken no, GRRM is unique for the way he writes and is a master of plot, tension, dialogue, world building, and most of all, character. Sex and violence is for medieval realism as well as realism just in war in general. It’s world and characters aren’t simply like any other fantasy story.

[@feliperodriguezmunoz8155]

I almost didnt start reading WoT because of that article when i was searching for recommendations wether to do it or not (being 14 books I wanted to be sure the ammount of time I was going to spend was worth it). However, after less than a week reading the eye of the world I'm 30 pages near the end and I've enjoyed every bit of It so far. It's also the first book i've read in english (being spanish is easy to find books translated) and even without being written in my mother language im loving it.

[@Huhwhips]

That’s awesome dude. The series is definitely worth it. And taking on this epic in a language other than your mother tongue, that’s ballsy. You are going to love it.

[@cynix1913]

Felipe Rodríguez Muñoz it gets way better. Keep it up.

[@CEWThree]

If you love it at The Eye of the World, just wait until you get to stuff in The Great Hunt, The Shadow Rising, Lord of Chaos, Knife of Dreams, and basically all of the last 3 volumes.

[@jchinckley]

Bien hecho. Bien pensado. Va a mejorar su Inglés con éste série.

[@enaidealukal9203]

That's the problem with people popping off without doing their homework- chances are quite a few people were discouraged from reading WoT because they read this wanker's article... which wasn't even premised on anything factual, like his demonstrably false bit about RJ planning on not finishing the series, or RJ not ever closing any plot arcs (though, the proliferation of questionable side-plots as the story progresses IS one of the valid criticisms of WoT.. but it also adds to the world-building, so those side plots have some merit regardless)

[@imjames29]

Don't we have prophecies about Jesus? We talk about that dude everyday. Some people do it for a living

[@izarscharf7845]

oh my god youre right ;)

[@willdaggett9618]

Lol this is hilarious, and at the same time thought provoking.

[@jonmkl]

And hilariously, despite having very few conversations and interactions between Jesus and other people recorded, one of them is literally his best friend pulling him aside and being like “You can’t do that! You’re the CHOSEN ONE!”

[@Fif0l]

@Feanor except for people who do. Except for those, nobody means it.

[@Fif0l]

@Feanor Except when Jesus got slapped by someone he demanded explanation as for what did he do wrong. So either whoever wrote the gospel has short memory loss and didn't notice the contradiction and hypocrisy of the supposed perfect man and none of the other 11 called him out on it... Or you're missing something. Just saying.

[@jessicasettle1843]

I am a woman. I like the fleshed out, different, amazing female characters. I love some, I hate others. I relate to some, I don't to others.

[@jachyra4]

I am a woman. I positively loathed every single one of them.

[@jessicasettle1843]

@@jachyra4 I definitely respect that. I was just addressing that he said no women liked it. I liked it.

[@ameliedavis5940]

@@jachyra4 Even Brigitte??

[@postponedprogress6962]

So… you relate to a character regardless of gender? Cool. That’s how it should be

[@mattiOTX]

He(Jordan) was one of the first writers where I found fantastically written female characters. I've always wanted to make sure my female characters live up to that standard. I was always tired of women not having agency in stories or simply being used as plot devices. It just never reminded me of reality and I could never stay connected into a story.

[@baconftw11]

He comes off as an edgelord trying to sound smart by going against the grain and claiming to have spotted all these mistakes that all the fan-boys didn't notice. It strikes me as if he couldn't stand out and seem interesting in the fantasy community by liking such a popular, mainstream franchise, so he instead tries to get attention by being edgy and shitting on it with half-truths and misunderstandings. We shouldn't really be surprised though, it happens with everything, hence r/iamverysmart existing. If anything this guy just makes your consistently level-headed look at different franchises look more respectable and worth listening to, so I'd say ignore this dude and keep up the good work!

[@LagMasterSam]

I was just about to say, this guy is just an edgelord personality with the way he's talking vaguely while being as insulting as possible and then just makes specifics up along the way in an attempt to look credible. It's textbook edgelord stuff.

[@MarisuSedai]

“This was too long to post on my tumblr.” Well, that explains a lot.

[@sovaxelemizzrym4377]

Basically this. "Oh you post on tumblr? K."

[@sprbwlshuffler92]

Dude who wrote this article: Claims RJ left a bunch of loops open that he never intended to close. Also Dude: finishes only book 5 or 6 of a FIFTEEN BOOK SERIES!

[@franciscobrisolladeoliveir9596]

are you counting New Spring?

[@sprbwlshuffler92]

@@franciscobrisolladeoliveir9596 Yar!

[@turtleanton6539]

Makes no sense

[@altorins]

WoT had so many loopholes it became somewhat difficult to keep track. I thought it would take a few more books to completely close them all.

[@amysthe-wise-one8493]

@@altorins RJ specified intentionally that not all plot lines would be wrapped up in a neat little bow at the end of the series. I respect that because had he tried to actually do that, it would have gone one for another 3-4 books. "There are no endings but this is an ending." It also makes perfect sense when you look at the last page, where you see who "wrote" it - as a history book and thus not all of the details would be present in it.

[@BingeWatchers]

Garret is himself a self published fantasy author, it’s interesting to read this article considering how derivative his own work is. Though I didn’t get 5 books in in his series, I quit after a couple of chapters.

[@angelalever1272]

I am a woman, I am 52, and I have actually read all of the WOT, I have no problem with the story arc of any of the women characters in the series. I do not like alot of them as people ie Tuon, Forsaken etc., but this is what makes WOT for me. Tolkien is the Grandfather of modern fantasy and in the hundreds of fantasy books I have read, I see his influence at somepoint in all of them, I am so proud that Robert Jordan wanted to use aspects of LotR in his work and how he also built on them to create his own unique world. The point that made me most angry is that Robert Jordan just kept on writing until he died and had no intention of finishing them, I do not know who this person is, but he clearly has no understanding of fantasy from its roots to modern day!

[@Trisjack20]

Very well articulated points.

[@jachyra4]

Book 6 was 900 pages. Almost nothing happens in the first 600 pages. A better writer could have written the same content in less than 150 pages. All of the books have this problem, but this to me was the most egregious. Imagine if Robert Jordan knew how to write without pissing away page upon page on nothingness. He could have easily finished the series in his lifetime, and it would be better for it.

[@Dragon-eu8cb]

I live Tuon because RJ wrote here so she was hatable.

[@jachyra4]

@@calebmauer1751 Well, a moderately interesting ending does seem comparatively amazing after 600 pages of boredom, I'll give you that.

[@jari2018]

@@Dragon-eu8cb There was 3 chapters online 10-15 years ago with Mat and Tuon working on a circus since Mat had kidnapped Tuon and they did hide there - it was supposed to be a taste of the upcoming novel - these chapters never appeared in the next novel and was never included in the series .

[@lmerickson0]

"Have you ever met someone in a bar?" "Don't you have social interactions?" I don't think this guy has, or does.

[@willprotector]

As someone who ACTUALLY FINISHED the series, it is not my favorite either for reasons I will likely do a blog on in the future. It is still one of the greatest series of all time. This guy’s criticisms were largely baseless and reveal some sort of personal angst against Jordan. The character assassination was particularly reprehensible toward a man who fought in Vietnam and died prematurely of a heart condition. That article was poorly researched and ill-conceived rant.

[@craigh5236]

Critique his works...sure, whatever. Start going on a rant attacking the author? Oh no, its on. I've met RJ once at a book signing. He was fun, engaging and earnest. A little gruff and grouchy for being asked the same few questions he thought his books already explained sure I can understand that. Lets see if this d-nozzle would do what RJ did, after he got his diagnosis he spent most of every spare moment he had trying to finish up outlines and notes for someone else to finish his books. He didn't drop everything and just do what he wanted, he tried his best to make it someone else could finish his books and Sanderson did just that. This guy is a male version of Moghedien.

[@muhammadabdullah6047]

Wot has major flaws and yet there are some elements I liked from it. But to call it the GOAT is laughable. As a respect to Daniel Greene, I tried to finish wheel of Time to see what all the fuss is about has been utter waste of time. I am now on book 10 can't finish one sentence more. If I read bosom from the female characters one more time I swear I will hang myself. Reading this book was like an assignment from your teacher but you have to do the book 14 times but it felt like a life sentence. I have read more than 500 books but not once have I felt like a chore reading wot

[@willprotector]

Muhammad Abdullah I almost skipped Book 10. The problem with Books 8-9, 10-11 is that each book is halves of two plot arcs. Unfortunately, those plot arcs are not great especially with the climactic event from Book 9. Jordan let the story get away from him a bit and it became a slog.

[@muhammadabdullah6047]

@@willprotector I agree with you. I desperately wanted to get to Brandon sanderson's part but I can't right now I have to read other books to cleanse my palate so to speak before coming back to wot

[@amysthe-wise-one8493]

@@muhammadabdullah6047 Then you are going to miss out on the epic badassery that is books 11-14. Your choice and I understand since CoT was considered a writing experiment that failed yet was still tried. Maybe Tolkien is more your speed where there are only male characters?

[@maia_gaia]

Like others have said, if your statement begins with "I've never heard a woman say X," my first question is: Have you ever spoken to a woman about this topic?

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

I laughed my butt of when he said that faile is a perfect girlfriend. Dude what are your smoking? Do you like really aggressive really stubborn prickly women who make their guy feel awkward just because he won’t shout at her or argue back

[@deadquaithe143]

It's a cultural blockage/lack of communication thing. Saldeans yell at each other to show passion in relationships. It gets funny when he yells at Berelain and not at Faile, not realizing what he's doing.

[@TheOwlet22]

Same XD honestly I haven't even finished the books yet (onto book 7) and I can certainly say Faile isn't at all perfect and could be...overbearing sometimes (and so far tbh I dislike her character, I agree she's a well written character but I still dislike her nevertheless)

[@seekeroftruth1970]

So true about Faile. It took me a while to like her and quite frankly, I thought Jordan devoted too much time to her.

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

Dead Quaithe14 yeah that moment where elyas explains saldean culture to Perrin is so funny

[@azurepulse1870]

Ngl, Perrin was the character I related to the most and I really did like Faile a lot. As a normally powerful, yet reserved and careful person, it's really jaw dropping to find a woman so strong-willed and adventurous (i mean, she starts of seeking the horn of valere and all that) who would be so interested in someone like Perrin (or me), who is so serious, methodical and prefer to keep things straightforward. She's the kind of girl that would fascinate him and the way she and Jordan use the Saldean culture to aggravate Perrin to anger, letting him open up about his thoughts emotions, leading to improving the communication and deepening the connection to each other... is just hilarious and totally believable from my perspective. And she herself grows from a bit of a rash woman looking for freedom and glory to a woman who devotes herself alongside Perrin to fight the darkness and lead the people that have come to rely on their knowledge, abilities, and strong leadership. Her flight from a hated duty and position became a choice she made for people she came to love and the wider people they both want to protect. She's not perfect. None of them or us are. But she's definitely best girl in my book.

[@Vanic00]

The Wheel of Time holds a special place in my heart and has for years. I found the Eye of the World one night in a lost and found pile while at work and started reading. I love this series so much, that I haven't even finished it, not because I dislike it, but because I don't want the story to end. My father grew up with Tolkien and his world, while I grew up with Robert Jordan.

[@alwaysopen7970]

I have all 15 books in my basement on shelves, most are first edition hardbacks. I want to get rid of them because I can read them on my Kindle if ever bored to tears. That's redundant.

[@lill1418]

"I've never heard a woman say x" Do you actually know any women?

[@KalRandom]

At least ones that know how to read, besides fb.

[@nicolapadoin9718]

@@KalRandom mom?

[@KalRandom]

@@nicolapadoin9718 you never really know your mother, that's a old person trying to get into heaven, after her wild times that brought you into this world.

[@sovcitwatch]

I've never heard a woman say I was good in bed. ... I haven't known any women in bed

[@swine13]

Ive never heard a woman say "ploop boop shazoopy moop, blabalabba bing bong" Your move, ladies...

[@rwhunt99]

I've read the entire series 8 times looking for flaws. Problem is, I keep forgetting to look for them as I get caught up in the story, darn it.

[@ferransilves907]

This just makes MY BLOOD BOIL! Of course, people just devise a whole epic fantasy story for years and write 10+ super thick books with amazing quality characters and worldbuilding and then decide to die spectacularly on purpose to leave the series unfinished and become legend. Are you fking kidding me?

[@tracib.7725]

This dude is probably a Terry Goodkind fan.

[@tracib.7725]

Allison Benton 🤣

[@cepopeye]

Traci Bailey ahahahaha

[@voobroo297]

Terry Goodkind was not an sjw lil bitch soy boy. He was a staunch anti socialist (which I am too) and long winded. But still a decent author. But there is only one Robert Jordan. RIP

[@lordofgraphite]

Woah, bit harsh

[@proteanalias]

Or even worse, a Stephenie Meyer fan.

[@NoorAhmed-nk2jq]

I think assigning intent to authors is generally gross and unnecessary, this is very disrespectful to RJ and how much he cared about finishing his work, people can have whatever issues or interpretations to an author's work, but to assume his intention and present it as fact when it is so wrong is next level! Also as a woman, I have a mixed range of emotions toward the female characters, some are complex, some are alright, others are shallow, this isn't particularly unique to the WoT mind you! and I find stuff like the bechdel test arbitrary, like is Gravity considered a sexist movie because the main character who is a female astronaut surviving on her own doesn't even have a conversation with another woman? that is so silly! also us girls are allowed to be catty, vulnerable, talk about boys or whatever we want! we aren't perfect, trying to write female characters as flawless is where most authors go wrong actually.

[@kasairan8492]

Bechdrl test is more a general guideline though.

[@futureboy314]

5 minutes in and I can see the tears in your eyes and I just wanted to say thank you for this. Unbelievable how many lines this guy crossed and I’m grateful your using your platform to call him out. Okay, back to the video.

[@victorianojm24]

Literally had no tears g

[@sentient.ball.of.stardust]

I'm starting to suspect that guy has NEVER met a woman.

[@seansteele1269]

I’m sure he spends plenty of time with Rosie Palms and her 5 sisters

[@randyvalgardson774]

He's just a troll trying to get some bit of fame when people feature this crap by posting a rebuttal. You probably should have continued to ignore him, bro!

[@barakatown1978]

@@seansteele1269 I thought it was Palmela Handerson and her 5 sisters

[@seansteele1269]

Ruaridh McNee nah Palmela is too pretty for him he gets Rosie the ugly sister

[@artemislogic5252]

@@barakatown1978 rosy palm is a masturbation technique if my memory serves me correct

[@justintherhino6585]

"WTF do you think a wolf brother is man?" I died xD

[@תהלהקאופמן]

I legit thought I'm gonna click on the video and it's just gonna be Daniel saying: "no." And then list of patreons Just continued watching and I'm shocked. Usually I don't like the word "offended" - but it's blatantly offensive. It's horrible. What a shitty thing to do. P.s. the women in wot are the most complex characters I've ever read (I'm a woman btw). Yes, It means that sometimes I don't like them, and sometimes I love and appreciate them with all my heart. Because they are so real - that's why they have ups and downs, the same as everyone. (Another p.s. when someone is sterssed, chased and all around in a sticky situation, it's completely normal to be caty!!!)

[@mrbubbles0311]

It would have been really funny if he did a spoof first video of just him saying "no", then made this one, which is wonderfully said and put together.

[@chrismath149]

To me, their beginning as flawed, petty teenagers wasn't a problem, nor that they were sexist towards men (Men are only good for fighting and think with their breast hair, hurrdurr) since it made some sense and we saw the exact opposite happen in history and fiction all over (G.R.R Martin has depicted sexism in A song of ice and fire as well which added flavour to the world) but that there was no progression in character in book 4 (where I couldn't bear it any longer and stopped reading). G.R.R Martin also showed nuance. There were different kind of men and women who had different values but (up until book four) the only women not bullying every man was Moraine. I mean, they do constantly bitch, do constantly ignore it when someone demands an explanation, they do constantly annoy the crap out of me. Not because they are flawed, but because they don't change their ways. Example follows (attention slight spoiler, duh) At one point Egwene and Nynaeve attack Mat even though he just saved them from being imprisoned. He fucking saved their fucking lives and they bully him with the one power. I lost what little respect I had for them at that point and it was a day later or so that I abandoned the series. Another problem I had were all that fucking side stories. But anyway... What if Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi had used the Force in a violent way to ensure that Han gets them off Tatooine, also for the greater good of escaping the Empire and protecting the DS plans? I wouldn't have liked that nor would I have felt sympathetic towards them after showing a blatant abuse of the Force, even though they would have good reasons. I am cool with grey characters but Nynaeve and Egwene are simply idiots in my opinion and how anyone can like them is beyond me.

[@myhr2320]

@@chrismath149 I love Egwene and Nynaeve. If you had keep going, you'd have red that they do apologize at one point, if very lightly, but you also get some insight about how they really are much more sorry than what they let out. Point is, all the WoT characters are flawed, they mess up, they wrong others, intentionally or not, but it's always motivated, and the characters are not unchanging, they interact, they sort things...and sometimes they don't. Like in real life. So yeah, don't sum up characters on one of their actions, it's also something we do in real life with people "this guy is a murderer", "she's a lier"...yes, but...there is context, there are nuances, there are motivations, and there can be change. It's not a reason to forgive everything, actions have consequences, but I'll be forever against the concept of eternal damnation.

[@elbinho1318]

As you were reading his "Mary Sue"-rant, I just thought: "Hey, he is describing Richard Rahl of 'The Sword of Truth'!" :-D

[@enaidealukal9203]

yeah Rand as Mary Sue is about as ridiculous as it gets.. Rand turns into a complete asshole by about book 5 or 6, and eventually becomes positively villainous (e.g. when he murderdeathkills Graendal's palace, innocents and all)

[@enaidealukal9203]

oops, spoiler alert

[@stevenseagal9911]

@@enaidealukal9203 yeah but that's when he is the best. Half-insane, murderous rampage Rand Is OP.

[@enaidealukal9203]

@@stevenseagal9911 oh yeah I agree

[@paulstanley86]

@@enaidealukal9203 and the way he made sure he got Graendal. Dam it was brilliant, but he failed.

[@aprilclapham9823]

Sappy appreciation comment incoming :) 30, F, Australia here - I am on my first read through, currently on book 8 and had been meaning to start the series 15 years ago - when I was about 7, I was in the library looking at the 'grown ups' books and saw that one area had books with cool wizards and dragons on the covers, so I told myself when I was a grown up I would read those books...anyway nostalgia aside... Two chapters in and I knew it was a good decision, halfway through the eye of the world and I was completely hooked...four books in, I knew it was now just going to be part of my life FOREVER and purchased all of them. have really been enjoying your channel as a little companion along with the books... AND the wonderful audiobooks. I had been meaning to start the series 15 years ago. Have also joined the lovely online Dragon Mount community, and also find myself listen to the awesome audioversion. I think your channel is great and is wonderful to hear your passion for it too. Anyhow, the other reason I chose to comment is that another reason Wheel of Time has been so amazing is that I have never experienced so many wonderful female characters that feel like real people to me. Jordan has somehow done the impossible of knowing *exactly* how women think and interact alone haha. Keep the videos coming, April :)

[@kimwarburton8490]

I liked brent weeks female assasin Vi. V dark grusome start to the series. Enough for nightmares xD But otherwise, iv not yet come across same female character complexity n realism as jordan n sanderson (who imo improved his talent by finishing jordans work. Iv read books he wrote pre n post the last 3 wot books)

[@jessi4894]

First off, Any article that starts out with: "Someone on my Tumblr said..." is obviously hot steaming garbage. Secondly, that entire question seems like a plant, I really do not believe that some random internet user asked that exact, perfectly worded question so that Garrett could go on his epic rant.

[@GAM3RGEEK]

Wasn't it RJ's dying wish to get his work completed? Thanks Brandon. :)

[@kimwarburton8490]

Exactly! He n his wife together asked sanderson as they felt hed b best to continue. Sanderson was involved before jordans death, picking his brains as much was only written in rough. I was desperate n eager for ANY scrap of info, heartbroken not so much that jordan was mortally ill, but that the series, the story wldnt b finished. So i remember That writeup got so much wrong

[@Trisjack20]

Agreed. Not only that but he ensured he had plans and notes in place to ensure that the readers would at least get the ending even if he could not be the one to deliver it. I remember him answering a fan question about writing and saying he would be writing till they nailed shut his coffin. Not because he wanted to make a fake legend but because he loved writing and wanted to always keep writing until he literally could not any more.

[@michaelshort2388]

@@kimwarburton8490 Actually he didn't choose Brandon to finish it. Once he knew he was dying he basically spent his time writing notes etc and told his wife to find someone to finish it after he died. Harriet found Brandon herself after she saw his post about how much Robert Jordan meant to him.

[@kimwarburton8490]

@@michaelshort2388 i could have sworn i read in one of the last 3 books that he spoke to jordan himself on his death bed n orally told parts of it to brandon in his explanation as to why he took over the series to the readers.

[@michaelshort2388]

@@kimwarburton8490 In an interview Brandon tells how it happened. :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYmwcoaDq9yki8k

[@davidcarter6659]

1225 "have you ever meet someone in a bar?" Lol no Daniel he absolutely has not ever meet anyone in a bar. I don't think he's meet very many people anywhere, especially not women.

[@roisbelhernandez1430]

You're right, Daniel. This guy should apologize to his readers for misleading them.

[@zimmy9599]

I personally dislike it because you can just read the first and last book and have the whole story and not miss much. Especially the book where they're at the women's castle/camp/facility, whatever, I can't remember what it is now. They aren't bad books, it's just, very unnecessarily long, and you already know the ending halfway through the first book. Good dude is gonna get powerful and kill bad dude. Cool. 13 books to get there. By the time I finished it I was so utterly un-enamored with the "climax" that I was like "wow I wasted weeks of my life reading 11 books."

[@marklikeshark]

Just started the wheel of time never even heard of it before your channel. I’m really enjoying so far.

[@jackpotdadon]

What book are you reading I just started the fire of heaven a week ago

[@KalRandom]

Welcome to WOT folks.

[@jacksonroks]

I read this series for over 10 years, you are lucky you dont have to wait in between books lol!

[@jackpotdadon]

@@jacksonroks lol yea your so right I just started reading the wheel of time this summer I am so happy I don't have to wait

[@mistyjamison5155]

@@jacksonroks Took me 20 years to finish. Worth every minute and every re-read to remind myself of the story when new books came out years later

[@justlilyanne]

The whole rant is a flashing neon sign that reads the boy just doesn't understand women. The rant says more about the writer than it does about the books.

[@TheSixOfSwords]

Damm, he really just insulted RJ like that.

[@turtleanton6539]

Wow

[@DaDunge]

14:20 Also the prophecy of the dragon doesn't really state he's going to save the world, it's just as often said he'd going to destroy it, and even when he's going to save it it's not clear he's really going to save it as much as his death somehow end up saving it.

[@antikotocerepa]

The guy who wrote the article is a classic example of projection. Claims to be interested in women being treated fairly but in the end he just shows his own prejudice. Thanks for doing this video.

[@MrPaul-bn9cl]

Rand al'Thor, The Dragon to Bone? Also, as a Tolkienian, while I recognize his books to be a major player in the modern epic fantasy genre, he has always spoken about borrowing many of His ideas from folklore and tales of epicness... So, all fantasy is 100% derivative. But way to be edgy... Lol

[@indy_go_blue6048]

It's likely that good old Homer derived stories of his time to create his epic duology. That's how it is. Even "There's nothing new under the sun..." came from somewhere else, lol.

[@DaDunge]

Tolkien got very pissy about suggestions that the ring was inspired by Nibelungen's ring however.

[@duyanhpro10]

I was cringing while listening to his "factor" but then he talked shit about Mistborn? Now you cross the line mate!

[@chickenmonger123]

Duy Anh Le Mistborn was ok. It was worth buying and reading. I read the first 4, but I didn’t really want to read any of the others.

[@mrbubbles0311]

I agree, those were really great books!

[@dragonbane44]

My best friend who doesn't like fantasy genre loved the mistborn series. That's how good it was.

[@JM-pm3tb]

Loved Mistborn.

[@josephhirning2372]

@@JM-pm3tb same.

[@jakeand9020]

Ok, I am not a fan of Wheel of Time, I got five or six, maybe seven books in and just lost interest. My problem was, NOTHING happened, for three books straight, not a damn thing. I liked the characters, specifically Matt, Nyneve, Perrin and honestly the false dragon guy, can't remember his name (it's been twenty some years.) So I tried to keep going but after the second thousand plus pages of nothing happening I decided "if nothing happens in the next book I'm done" sure enough nothing happened, so that was that. The worst part was, none of my favorite characters featured more than just a "yeah, they still exist" sort of way. I left with a lot of unanswered questions. I wanted to know how that false dragon's arc turned out, why did Rand's father have a swordmaster sword, and many more, but they just were not important enough to go through the slog of NOTHING for thousands of pages. So, yeah, not a fan. This guy's review though, what series of books did he even read? The only thing close to accurate was everyone wanted Rand, everyone loved (or pretended to love) Rand, but ninety percent of the time it was because they wanted to manipulate him, it was justified, in story, why everyone was so gaga over him. Everyone, aside from Matt and Perrin (including the "good" guys, maybe even especially them) was trying to manipulate him, because he was the Chosen one and everyone knew he was the Chosen one. Yes, it was CONSTANTLY being brought up, of course it was, he was the damn Chosen one and EVERYONE knew it, that was kinda the whole point of the story! If anything, that was one of the more refreshing aspects, it felt more real, I guess, compared to most "chosen one" tropes. Usually it's just "oh yeah, he's the chosen one" and that's it, no muss no fuss, and totally and completely unrealistic. Everything else in the review was bullocks. Well, I, mean, sure but here was some obvious "Tolkien" stuff, but, that's NOT CRITICISM. If it was there wouldn't be a single high fantasy author to like, even more "low" fantasy, like Marten, takes a lot from Tolkien.

[@ariaporic]

Oh wow he was really mean, who ever this was, I don't know why I'm so shocked but I really am. He sounds like a really sad petty person..

[@KasonWhitsell]

Anytime someone talks about how "bad" the female characters are in WOT, i dont even respond with any of the big 3 names. Verin Sedai is by far the most complex, badass, and well written characters I have EVER read. GOAT character

[@AlMoxtar]

Those lines about Robert Jordan, in addition to being factually wrong, are despicable on a human level. PS: I haven't read the WOT yet so I have no opinion on the rest of it.

[@enaidealukal9203]

you should probably get on that then, its a fantastic series you won't regret it!

[@gaybowser4648]

I saw a goodreads review of TWoK which is very similar to this and seriously disrespected Brandon Sanderson for no reason. It genuinely disgusted me. They made points saying, this is not how you write a good story, objectively ( or something like that) and then said something about Brandon purposefully making a cult around himself which is just???

[@kingCrow998]

I finally gave up on Malazan last night and started WOT. It really broke my heart to do so because they are really well written. They just arent for me. I made it to the end of book 6 and cant go any further. Maybe ill come back to it one day, but ive been reading malazan for months and havent been enjoying or looking forward to reading like I normally do. That being said, I still have immense respect for Erickson and his vision. Wow. What an ambitious man. We as readers need to understand that not every popular series will connect with us, and that doesnt make the series bad. The guy who wrote this article seems like hes trying to get under people's skin, like hes trying to go against the grain to appear cool. We dont need that in the fantasy community. Good on you for speaking out Daniel. Lastly, readers, dont be afraid to DNF a book. Ive been struggling for days contemplating if I should set them down(because im a completionist), but at the end of the day, we read for enjoyment. We read to delve into another realm, to leave our mundane lives behind and enter a fantastic one. So if youre not enjoying a book, set it down, and move on. You can always return to it later, but theres always more books that will touch your heart around the corner ❤

[@Trisjack20]

Really good comment. I loved this response and I think it is quite a beneficial thought to share.

[@lordofdarkness4204]

This is an amazing comment dude. It 100% accurate, and I wish more people acknowledged it.

[@lukechapman8412]

Totally agree. I read Malazan after my 2nd reading of WoT. And man, that is a really heartbreaking series, I almost stopped a few times for how depressing it got. Fantastic exploration of the human condition. Try not to feel too bad about stopping something when you aren't enjoying yourself. Someday you may revisit it during a break from another series. : ) I'm currently rereading EoTW in preparation for the TV series.

[@kkcliffy2952]

I have a friend who has a lot of these same opinions, including hating how Robert Jordan wrote women and saying he's derivative after the first 3 books. I'm a woman and loved the entire series including how the women were written and the nods to Tolkien, which I started reading the same year I started reading WoT.

[@KJnapalm]

I personally just hate the way Jordan writes characters. Most of the conflict stems from the fact that none of the characters communicate with or have any trust in each other. I’ll admit that’s why I stopped reading. I just hate the way he writes relationships and characters.

[@michaelfeeney6108]

Lesson learned: never come for Daniel’s babies. He’ll snatch a wig.

[@xandara75]

No that is not it. There are a couple of really valid complaints you can make about WoT but this guy just got none of them.

[@BondedAlmond49]

"I've dated people I've met at a bar" casual flex but ok

[@loweltabotabo9626]

That guy writing Perrin is powerless, got me gnarling like a wolf. Literally.

[@niels1349]

I mean, for the first seven or so books (that's where I am in my reread) and I think it might be 8 he wishes he was powerless

[@Ray-td4tq]

I havent even read the series and this still made me extremely angry. I cried twice about how despicable he was being to a late author, who is well know and respected, who cant even defend himself. This is sick.

[@AnxietyRat]

Same. I tried listening to the audiobook...but holy shit it's boring. So I gave up. Lmao. But yeah...this "crititque" is baseless and petty and rude... and untrue, worst of all.

[@austinmcglothlin275]

I'm in the middle of Eye of the World and I actually saw this article a week or so ago that made me really worried about investing time and money in the series. I still don't like taking an odd review seriously, but I was afraid of ending up 3 or so books in and feel the need to stop because of sexist tropes or lack of female character development. I'm glad you took the time to respond to this as I've come to respect and trust your opinions on fantasy books, even if you may be WoT biased. This did diminish my fears from seeing both this article and several rough reviews on GoodReads.

[@lordofdarkness4204]

The books are not at all sexist, and the female characters do evolve and develop. Neither of those things are the issues people have with the characters. The issue is that the female characters have too similar personalities

[@mycenaeangal9312]

I think for the most part they’re fine. The polyandry is kinda awkward no matter how you spin it though and I wish he’d gone for full on polyamory so that it wasn’t as unbalanced feeling. The other thing is his characters male and female are really opinionated about gender and the opposite gender especially and are just painfully wrong. And I don’t think that’s a sexism thing but it does get kinda annoying.

[@sparrowart4688]

I’m a girl, and I’ve been reading Wheel of Time since I was 16. This article is full of bs.

[@alwaysopen7970]

How old are you now?

[@sparrowart4688]

alwaysopen I’m 33 now😆 And still enjoying the series

[@viorp5267]

1:16 > on his tumbrl Dis gon be gud

[@dylanbaker9016]

My very thoughts.

[@sybaen5931]

It's been at least a decade since I read the books, but my overall memory / impression of the female characters was that (not all) but a lot of them really were just... so annoying at times. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for powerful female characters. The Aes Sedai and White Tower being a massive driving force in the world, the Wise Ones being respected leaders that no one, even from different clans, would dare to disrespect. The Seanchan being ruled by an Empress. Great concepts. I wholeheartedly prefer having female leads in the books I read. But when a lot of your dialogue is spent unnecessarily belittling the male characters and each other? They're just so damn arrogant and constantly vying to be the 'alpha' of whatever group they're in. I've never in my life enjoyed being around anyone like that, either male or female. In some of the worst cases it'll even come across as "Oh, it's a guy that's being verbally or physically abused? That's fine then. We'll laugh about it. He probably deserved it anyway." All I can say to that is... you can empower women without degrading men. Maybe I could do with a reread now that I'm not in my teens anymore, but... that's one of the biggest impressions the books left on me. That, and page long descriptions of the clothes people are wearing.

[@macielrodriguez6697]

Love your comment x1000! You can write powerful women without them belittling men all the time.

[@XiongGou]

I think that's a part of the story though. I personally found myself annoyed by many of the female characters because of their arrogance and dismissal of men, however they do so with good cause. (SPOILERS AHEAD) It was men in the Age of Legends that brought about the breaking through their own arrogance by opening the bore. This brought about the taint, leading male channelers to go mad and brought about a matriarchal society because men couldn't be trusted anymore. At the origin of this story it's been 3000 years since the breaking so people's biases are pretty firm in their minds. Which is why Logain's arc and the Black Tower is so important because in the end they were able to bring a redemption for men and remove the stigma, especially of men who can channel by their efforts in The Last Battle. If you read the story to it's conclusion the barriers between men and women begin to break down and mutual respect and honor are beginning to be established again.

[@Sa1d1n]

@@XiongGou [SPOILER WARNING] you need to re-read the books. The men did not open the bore - they tried to patch the bore without the support of female channelers. The backlash of the Dark One is what ultimately tainted Saidin. The bore was opened by Age of Legends researchers in an attempt to find a new access to the true source. There was no 'male arrogance' to it, except perhaps by LTT thinking they could seal the bore without the support of female channelers. That said, he had no real choice - the female Aes Sedai would not join him. As Rand proves in the end of the WoT - if men and women had joined together during the Age of Legends, they may have succeeded in reforming the bore and trapping the Dark One then. If anything, it was the arrogance of the female Aes Sedai in not heeding the call of their Tamyrlin that should be called down in this case. Also, the universe in the WoT is not a 'matriarchal society'. There are matriarchal and patriarchal, as well as egalitarian societies in WoT. While the Aes Sedai and Ebou Dari are clearly matriarchal, most of the societies in WoT have strong patriarchal leanings - with typically distinct gender roles. While the overall gist of WoT is significantly more egalitarian than many other epics, it definitely does not fit the overall definition of a matriarchal society.

[@barmy8219]

@@XiongGou This is interesting. I fell off around where the guy who wrote the review did and felt similar to the one you responded to but now I kind of want to try again with this in mind. Sort of thinking about it as what if women were in charge in the way men have been in our society and a lot of the vices of patriarchy arose in matriarchy.

[@pierceticen3301]

If you’re suffering through Mistborn than I really don’t think modern epic fantasy is gonna please you regardless of the content.

[@seekeroftruth1970]

I love both modern and classic fantasy and found the first Mistborn book overrated. Will eventually read the second.

[@kimwarburton8490]

@@seekeroftruth1970 from what i remember, the books get better. 1st book was a struggle for me too, but i was heartbroken when id finished the series

[@erra4331]

Emilio Rodriguez I didn’t enjoy them either. Stormlight archives are my favorite book series tho:)

[@seekeroftruth1970]

Looking forward to Stormlight.

[@Born_Stellar]

WHAT? Mistborn is awesome, Sanderson is the best writer of our time!

[@andrewhooper5933]

What amazes me at least it feels like to me is how much you talk about books and how few spoilers if any are in your videos really appreciate this, currently reading ASOIF but I’m almost done 500 pages left. The second I’m done I am picking up the wheel of time because of your recommendation!

[@andocommando3071]

From someone yet to start reading WoT, that was an abysmal article that should've been posted on Tumblr in the first place and kept there.

[@cheaptricked3148]

I have to admit, when I first started reading Eye of the World, I put it down after a couple chapters thinking it was derivative of Tolkien (I was also young and the LotR movies just came out so I was very attached to them). Black-cloaked riders, Mountains of Mist, the Third Age (even opening almost word for word the same way, 'legend fades to myth' and whatnot). But the similarities pretty much end with that surface level stuff. I read the first 7 or 8 books one after another and had taken a huge break between 9 and 10...like...a ten year break. It's actually what brought me to this channel, I had to look up summaries of the books before reading Crossroads of Twilight. And now that one is out of the way and I'm onto Knife of Dreams where I hear it picks up again. It's going to feel weird to finish a series I started in high school over 15 years ago but I'm looking forward to it.

[@MrThystleblum1]

Actually, WoT had a fair amount of LGBT representation, especially among the Aiel and the red Adja.

[@Spaced92]

Besides the obvious pillow friend stuff, I remember that lesbian affair Rand accidentally revealed after he tied them up for their safety. That's a weird sentence.

[@SilverMe2004]

you also get Asmodean getting revived into a woman's body

[@enaidealukal9203]

@@SilverMe2004 Balthamel, not Asmodean.. but that's a good and interesting point, that I hadn't considered before, i.e. (male) Balthamel's ressurrection in a female body (Aran'gar) interpreted from a trans angle- very cool

[@KelYarule]

I was wondering if anyone would mention this. Just because it isn't at the forefront doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Jordan was ahead of his time in terms of his world-building. That's why Sanderson was such a great fit to finish his story

[@Rearda]

If you want to see LotR re-told, I’d pick The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever, not Wheel of Time which was influenced by Tolkien but doesn’t copy it. This critic is really not up to the job.

[@SuperDipMonster]

Is he whining because there's resemblances to Middle-Earth? Does that mean that mentioning dragons, elves, swords and such is intellectual property appropriation?

[@TheoryGamingOfficial]

@Robertson Thirdly honestly the same could be said about the entire series. All of the cultures are mashed up versions of cultures that existed/exist in our world. Their are mythological similarities throughout the entire series as well, one of the biggest being Odin and Thor.

[@ClayHales]

@@TheoryGamingOfficial And Tyr. The Middle Earth homage was a big turn off to me. I almost stopped reading when it is revealed that Lan was a king in exile.

[@lulzdragon7339]

Honestly, if you've got problem with Middle Earth influence and references I thinks it's time to find a new genre. I can't think of a modern work of fantasy that isn't guilty of this.

[@BelRigh]

@@lulzdragon7339 lotr influences and being derivitives arent INHERANTLY bad... Its more of how they are done... Witness the dragoncrown war.cycle, which i jokingly refer to as 'Definately Not.LOTR' or LOTR done by an avtual storyteller and not a scholar.... Alternately, the Valdamar and Green rider series.... Super horses, magically choosing people for the Special forces of the monarch... Said special forces have special powers... All there...GR is SUPER derivative... However the STORY is soooo different, the beats are different, the worlds are different, etc. Im reminded of Codex Aleria books and the tale behind them(essentially a fan challenged JButcher on needing a great idea for a great book... He replied he xould make a great book out of a stupid idea... In fact 2 and the fan could pick them... Pokemon nd lost roman legions)

[@StergiosMekras]

To be fair, the similarities in the first books of WoT were a bit too on the nose. Jordan's choice of names did not help either.

[@NoOne-td4vg]

I am sorry to admit, almost done book 8 and I am struggling. The main characters make the same mistakes in book 8 as they did in book 1. Basically no growth in all but Mat's character. Barely any repercussions for bone head mistakes, all the characters besides Mat and Min have regressed in their character arc since the beginning (including Perrin who is my favorite). I was told by so many people this is a top 5 fantasy series of all time. I am hoping it gets better, but as of now, on par with the Hunger Games (overrated series)

[@gokbay3057]

Forget about Bechdel test not being enough, Wheel of Time definitely passes it in the first book alone. Egwene and Moirane talking about one power. And in the later books (by which I mean book two/three) supergirls talk about the Black Ajah. It is pretty easy to see WOT passes Bechdel Test

[@jerimiahjohnson4272]

I haven't watched the video yet but I read his complaint. Dude literally plugs his own book at the end of his diatribe, he can eat it.

[@jerimiahjohnson4272]

Solid, counter points Daniel.

[@Asmodean1911]

Well plotted, structured and reasoned rebuttals. I believe you were too nice, should have burned this down much sooner. Thanks for the great content.

[@NewGuy2534]

Anything that starts with “On their Tumblr” should be taken with a MOUNTAIN of salt.

[@krafka]

"His (Rand's) only flaw is that he sometimes goes crazy because he's just too powerful..." - well, sure if you ignore the madness caused by the Taint on Saidin or the voices in his head. Rand's going crazy from the Taint creates a ticking clock of whether he'll go crazy and destroy the world before he can save it from the Dark One. It serves to create story tension and (internal) character conflict when he questions his own sanity and ability to succeed. As a practical matter, the fact that Rand is so powerful and draws so much of Saidin makes it even more of a problem as it increases the amount of the Taint and crazy. Chosen One Trope: In the real world, we do have a magical prophesy about a "Chosen One" destined to save the world and all mankind - and people talk about him incessantly. In fact, there are entire religions devoted to him, wars fought in his name, and people cannot stop talking about him. Based our real world example, one might argue that people in the Wheel of Time don't talk about Rand enough, nor does he inspire near the blind faith and devotion that has actually occurred in the real world. Wheel of Time is not perfect. Frankly, I also believe that PoD, WH, CoT, and KoD could have (and should have) been edited down to 2 books. However, Garrett Robinson's criticisms are based on both factual flaws regarding the characters and their stories AND lack of literary knowledge around the fantasy genre. As for the absurd criticism regarding Jordan's desire to die before he's finished, most stories suggest that Jordan devoted much of his time before dying consolidating his materials and working with Sanderson to ensure that the series was completed the way he wanted it to be. There is no evidence to suggest that those stories are merely PR to make sure fans were onboard with someone else finishing the books to increase book sales. People are entitled to their opinions. It's too bad that they're not required to be based on reality when they express them.

[@rhodie9338]

Honestly, what gets me the most about this is that the guy actually did research, but only for stuff he thought he could pick on. He picks on Nynaeve's name, el'Nynaeve ti al'Meara Mandragoran. Except, wait a minute, he also says he gave up during the fifth or sixth book. The "el" at the beginning of her name isn't part of her first name. It's an honorific given to the Queen of Malkier. And Mandragoran is obviously Lan's last name, which she took in her marraige to him (iirc, the ti also signifies a maiden name, but I'm not positive). Trouble is, by the end of book six that still hadn't happened. Not only is Nynaeve's full name incredibly situational, popping up only a couple of times in the series, but this guy never even read far enough into the series to see it. He just looked it up after the fact to complain about it. Also, Man, now I'm really curious what the unprofessional bit that got edited out was.

[@Dragon-eu8cb]

And their is a reason for names like that, if Elayne married Lan then telling people she was both a Mandragoran and a Trankard for the purpose of the game of houses.

[@Nasser851000]

*Looks at video title* Oh Sh*t...here we go again.

[@DMIwriter]

I don't think Wheel of Time sucks. It's just not for me. I can acknowledge and respect the skill and imagination that went into it, but I'm personally not a fan. And I think that should be true of how we handle fandoms. Just because I don't like doesn't automatically mean it's bad

[@seekeroftruth1970]

I laughed through this guy’s article as I have had criticisms of WofT in the past (loved the series, by the way) and none of them match any of his eight factors. I’m all for educated speculation but his character assassination was the worst example of armchair psych I probably have seen.

[@N4RCissus]

I don't believe in character assassination I don't think Robert Jordan was a bad guy I just think that his writing was repetitive. At many times unimaginative. But he made a cool world. It was an enjoyable read when I was young. But after reading more as an adult. I go back to his books. They are pretty shoddy work. But it's cool how he did things with the one power and weaves.

[@Gammagreen]

My problem with both men and women in the wheel of time is that there were few if any middle spectrum people. Nearly every character worth speaking of had eronious assumptions of how the opposite sex needed to guided by the sex of the person thinking the thought. I am married and will admit that there are times when I think thoughts of "women be like..." but there are many more sensible times where I know I am wrong and that my wife is right. I didn't see enough of that in the books. It didn't ruin the story for me (which I have physically read or had read to me, thanks audible, more than 6 times) but was an issue I had with RJ storytelling. There were great relationships in the series, but there was a distinct lack of open communication between couples that led to the same conflicts that I had a hard time believing that people of their caliber would not overcome. The closest it got was the double warder bonded couple in the last book, and it took their minds literally being linked to make it happen.

[@colesargent7676]

I very much agree with your assessment. the assumptions almost ALL the characters make about the opposite sex got very old after the 5th book. It went both ways, but it felt like with especially with the women, there wasn't even one character that was simply kind, empathetic and reasonable. To be fair, I listened to the audio book so the way it was read may have influenced how I perceived the characters. Perhaps if I read the books instead my impression would be different. All that said, I loved the story and am extremely excited about the Amazon adaptation.

[@Gammagreen]

@@colesargent7676 reading it doesn't make it better. And besides, reading it after hearing the audio book version just makes me read it the way I heard it.

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

Finally! Someone noticed this! It’s one of the reasons I stopped reading WOT halfway through book four....

[@jarock-wh9lj]

Fair criticism of the series. I love the series, but both sexes are far too judgemental of the other as a rule. It doesn't ruin the story, but I agree it can wear on you as the reader.

[@DaDunge]

It's because eastern dualism is a big factor in how the universe is set up. Or did you think the The Yin Yang Symbol showing up on the cover was just for show?

[@philipboardman1357]

The part about him having sex with multiple companion is a little weird, and then it even got weirder that they told him that they are in control of which of them he sees, and when.

[@coreyhouse2647]

Right? Especially since 2/3 of them chose when and where the first time, not the other way around. And Aviendha straight up tells him it was a one-off until the last book.

[@wiseoneedarra593]

It was just a different cultural piece. Rand was not a womanizer and actually agonized about loving all three of them. It took Elayne and Min a bit to get comfortable with the Aiel concept of first sisters marrying the same man. Arguably, adopted first sisters can be closer than biological first sisters and the sisters are arguably closer to each other than they are even to their husband. Accepting cultures drastically different than your own is part of being a fantasy fan.

[@TheJedimaster95]

At the end he manages to call Well of Ascension a mediocre book... not the most lucid analysis

[@francisco2013]

Fact check! Nynaeve is not the strongest non forsaken/current age chaneller. There's at least Alivia, Sharina and Talaan. Part of her arc is realising that after books of being told she is the strongest and standing toe to toe with the forsaken realising that she isn't the strongest. You're spot on about her character tho! And thanks for ripping this post apart. Its disgraceful.

[@benh2339]

Its so weird that these kinds of people don't understand that its not a case of "women being attracted to men is bad" the problem comes when the men never show such attraction and the women only ever seem to care about men and have no other motivations. That's literally not even sort of the case with wheel of time... every single male protagonist has a chapter talking about wanting to dance with pretty girls, so it would be weird if the women never ever expressed attraction to men. The amount of times this reviewer mentioned that the women just want to bone Rand made me so confused cause my reaction to read the first few books was "wow this book is incredibly unsexy and has 0 wish fulfillment for a series where the protagonist marries three women." Like, any time a woman shows interest in Rand, he immediately turns them down cause he clearly doesn't think of sex as a thing outside of relationships and marriage. Any power Rand possesses seems a billion times more like a burden than a thing any real person would want so its ridiculous to call him a Mary Sue... Also this is a world where WOMEN ARE IN CHARGE. It's literally a de-facto matriarchy where women are entrusted with all the power and men are treated like fools who can't be trusted with too much power. How could anyone read this and consider the women to not have agency when they're literally the ones calling the shots even on a systematic scale. Considering the white tower exists only for women, you can bet your ass that almost every single scene inside the white tower passes the Bechdel test with flying colors, so he must have just skipped those parts... The Shadow Rising starts with Min's entire motivation being that she's worried about Rand's status, and yet she mentions it I think one time and then never mentions it again for that entire chapter, focusing instead on the Aes Sedai and their mission and Egwene and Elayne and Nynaeve. This dude is a weird contrarian and disgustingly disrespectful to a person who died relatively young, unable to finish his life's work. Framing it like it was Robert Jordan's goal to die before finishing it is beyond ghoulish. I'm not even the biggest WoT fan but holy shit this was a ridiculous review and everything this guy publishes in the future should be absolutely scrutinized.

[@IanDoesMagic]

The guy writing the article just wanted attention. Offensively insulting a beloved author leads to hate. Hate leads to clicks. Clicks lead to fear. Fear leads to the dar--wait Yoda how did you get here?

[@timpeterjensen2364]

I remember reading that post when it came out and being annoyed at how unfactual it was.

[@galinor7]

There will always be those who rant. ranting is cheap. Bach, Mozart, Iron maiden, Billie Holiday, Tolkien: It doesn't matter who you are, or what you do, or how good you are, someone will say that you're crap. That's life. Trolls exist... They just aren't green and don't live under bridges. Daniel, shrug your shoulders and move along. They aren't worth it.

[@jacobnugent8159]

I don't care if its "woke" I care if it's a good story

[@JoeBob79569]

What.. Mat loses an eye? Goddammit! I hate spoilers, but I don't, but I do.. I guess I should have stopped watching when that big spoiler warning was pasted on the screen. But I just skipped ahead. I suppose it's just a small spoiler though.. I need to just finish the bloody series..

[@achintyaupadhyay5528]

Halfway through, I realized that I've made a mistake in watching this video. Spoilers abound. Don't watch this video if you've not finished the series. Edit: I'm on the 10th book, if anyone wants to know.

[@KalRandom]

I read them before spoilers was a thing, but I don't think it will hurt you any, as you made it past the hump in the books. The next ones the problem you will have is reading them slow enough to really enjoy them and catch some stuff. Takes a few reads to catch most stuff, lol I'm on 4th read of last book and still finding things I missed before.

[@TalysAlankil]

The Bechdel test is a way to assess *industry-wide* trends, it's completely pointless to criticize one book using that

[@MorbidGuardian]

Wait, if he bailed halfway through book 5, how can he comment on the Aviendha/Min/Elayne/Rand relationship? I think Rand is only just starting to get romantically affiliated with Avienhda in Book 5. I haven't read the books in a while so maybe I'm wrong, but I do recall Rand's romances being more of a slower burn.

[@Unlitedsoul]

So, I was at work today doing menial labor tasks that I usually do twice a week. I listened to about 10 hours of Lord of Chaos. In this time, the audio book went through six different chapters focusing on Elayne or Nynaeve. Rand was brought up twice. Once when Elayne was asked about him by Siuan Sanche while in Salidar, and that prompted her to briefly think about their romantic link for maybe 1 paragraph. The second time was when Nynaeve heard of Elaida sending a group of Aes Sedai to Rand, and she was poking her nose around the business of a blue sitter... who in turn began asking about Rand, and all of the other Emond's Fielders. Lan was brought up once... and for two sentences. Six chapters, and the love interests were mentioned for all of maybe 6 sentences. Each time, the thoughts came forward only because someone else mentioned them in a plot-setting manner. Another point. This guy says that it was Jordan's plan to die and leave the work unfinished. Then why he personally involved in interviewing prospective writers to finish his story? Why was it Robert Jordan himself who announced, with great relief and excitement, that he and Harriet had found someone to take over so that when he passed, the Wheel of Time would indeed be completed? This guy is so wrong here, it makes you wonder how wrong he is about everything else... or if it was intentional, thinking that no one would call him out but just take him at his word.

[@dusman7]

You cleared up one thing for me. I always enjoyed the first book but considered it the weakest of the bunch because it seemed a near carbon copy of Fellowship of the Rings until future books went waaaaay past it. I know most fantasy authors borrow heavily from Tolkien but Jordan’s seemed so blatant that I considered it a weakness. But when you said that Jordan stated it was a retelling of Lord of the Rings in a more realistic setting and continued from there, it all clicked for me. Now what I thought was a weakness, I now see as strength. Thank you for that Daniel.

[@jamiebisson2752]

Added to your thoughts on factor 3: as a Charleston-area resident and long-time fan, I attended a book signing for Knife of Dreams, a signing from BEFORE he was diagnosed, and he said that A Memory of Light would absolutely, positively be the final book of the series. Interviews from that same time said much the same.

[@Wirrn]

So two things. Firstly...while the whole ominous black rider thing is definitely Tolkein inspired, it hit me watching this that...thats about it for the Fade-Nazgul link. I mean seriously, they were black. I can't actually think of another thing thats the same between them. They're kinda magic maybe? Oh at least at one point The Nazgul do a fear debuff but its hardly their main thing. The Nazgul are humans who wasted away into being immortal wraiths bound to an object of power, who wear concealing robes because they have no real physical form on this plane. There are only nine of them, and they are some of the Big Bad's most elite and powerful forces. The Fades trolloc children with atavistic throwbacks to the original humans prior to mutation. They are physical beings that happen to have superhuman abilities, and wear concealing robes because they have no freaking eyes and are obviously inhuman. Their principle weapon is the fear gaze and they fulfill a setting role of elite mook, particularly threatening at the start because our heroes have no experience. Yeah 'heroes chased by ominous black rider' is from Tolkein and unashamedly so, but if you stop to think about it the Forsaken are MUCH closer to the Nazgul

[@Wirrn]

Secondly, and this is where I have to grudgingly...defend is the wrong word, but understand the writer fo this article. If he's talking about what I think he is, the arc where the girls are stuck in the circus IS *way* longer than it should be and does largely consist of them griping at each other. Realistic it may be, but it is unnecessarily long and could EASILY be read as sexist tropes of women being bitchy at each other. (Personally I read it as less sorting out power dynamics and more cabin fever). Part of the problem I think is that whilst the boys got their section of soap opera bitching at each other, largely in book two, it was a much shorter segment and felt more earned - Rand is deliberately trying to push them away and they are lacking the info to make him seem like not an arsehole. Add on to the fact that whenever there's a monogender group in the books its always women - the male characters get split up from each other early on in the series and then spend their time in mixed groups (okay Mat is in an all male bit for a bit, but only a short time, and they're not main characters). Since the characters have to be in conflict for there to be story, its obviously going to look like women are arguing with each other more than men do. And, again, (imo) that first circus arc was really really drawn out and dull with pointless side bits. So I can easily see someone getting frustrated there. This doesn't excuse...well pretty much anythign else in this article.

[@AhsimNreiziev]

+[Wirm] Next time you re-read the series, I recommend trying to view the Circus Arc as what it was meant to be: a Buddy Cop / Antagonistic Duo "good cop"/"bad cop" Comedy with Nynaeve and Elayne being our dynamic and utterly hilarious duo. If you view it through this lens, you might find pure comedic gold where previously you saw sexism, poor pacing and annoying Characters.

[@moderncaleb3923]

I actually remember coming across the original article when deciding whether or not to start reading it. Glad to see a refutation. I’m pretty new to the Fantasy genre so I’m planning on reading some easier series (Mistborn etc) before I take on the wheel of time. Since, regardless of its faults, it seems like those who’ve read it all the they through still don’t regret finishing it.

[@olleh2399]

All writers are just copying gilgamesh, that's why I don't read

[@troyterry5759]

I bet that there was a scene with Inana yanking her braid and scolding Gilgamesh, who's just standing there sputtering "But-- but--", and it just got lost due to time...

[@cthulhujankinx5652]

I straight named my car Fade, it's a glossy black stang with sun damage on the hood and various parts of the care, almost like the coloring of the myydreal

[@unrulysimian3897]

Brother. I am more than twice your age, and you are so much more grown-up than I will ever be. ☮

[@GuitarrAssassin]

6:30 To add to your point, I forget where I read it, but I read somewhere that most fantasy authors do one of two things in regards to Tolkien. They either imitate/pay homage to his work OR they try their hardest to be completely different in every way. An an example of the former being Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, and one example of the latter being George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire as he himself has stated what influences Tolkien had. I believe he said in an interview something along the lines of "What were Aragorn's policies as king regarding the surviving orcs after Sauron's fall? Did he hunt them down for extermination or leave them alone?"