The Winners & Losers of Melee DPS in The War Within

Which Melee DPS are the most fun in The War Within? Which Melee aren't so fun? After playing all DPS specs in the new expansion here is a video on my thoughts. Let me know what you think!
Watch live at: / vesperaltv
Business email: [e-mail]
Hope you enjoy!
Intro: 0:00
Winners: 0:15
Losers: 7:50
Outro: 14:13
Discord: / discord
Twitch: / vesperaltv
Twitter: / vesperaltv
#worldofwarcraft #thewarwithin #mythicplus

[@petersimon2619]

Whirling dragon punch's animation is one of the most satisfying ways to get your character killed.

[@VesperalTV]

LOL

[@benkelly7182]

lmao

[@AD690smcr]

True, but i have died more times monk rolling off cliffs and platforms lol

[@TopicxWoW]

It's like 1.5 seconds... if you die in that time period, you either shouldn't have pressed it or you need to study the fight mechanics more. It's really not bad at all.

[@sheetinthestreet5903]

Same deal as Chi Burst having a nonsensical one second cast time. Should be instant.

[@AlvinEarthworm]

I've mained an Unholy DK since Wrath and I'm super hyped to try out the rework and hero talents. Actually having good mobility with the Riders of the Apocalypse talents will be a godsend.

[@denisb1223]

that is why i stopped maining DK it was way too slow for me. Time for a comeback!

[@Sly_404]

Spot on when it comes to rogue. Not the biggest fan of Outlaw revolving all around crackshot and Subs bloat of off gcd amp buttons you are supposed to hit during the opener sequence. Assa is probaly the most healthy out of the 3 but gets dragged down by how Deathstalker interacts with the base kit. Overall rogue just takes a step back compared to DF.

[@VesperalTV]

exactly! I feel I could probably learn to enjoy assa but it's for sure a little daunting at first

[@Tehstampede]

That's unfortunate; I'm an Ass rogue main and I'm hoping this spec gets some love

[@ZaHandoRequiem]

@@Tehstampedeim to or was. I’m gonna main dk or mage when rogue wont get any good changes

[@ramstab]

Fun for people who like gambling.

[@Garbage315]

@@VesperalTV You're right, I get it that Blizzard obviously wants rogue to be one of the difficult classes of the game but holy moly they need to calm down a bit, all 3 specs are an absolute headache to get the hang of. I've picked up assass just fine contrary to you but Outlaw gives me a freaking headache trying to figure out.

[@bloods_inc]

another melee classes? enh, surv, pala, feral? whats about their hero talents and flows?

[@rznfoll338]

He tested EVERY melee class 😅

[@MrManultra]

Don't you feel resource starved with conduit? I tried it just a little bit but after the third time sitting there with 0 chi and 0 energy , waiting for a total of 100 energy to get a second Tiger palm for a solid 4-5 seconds, I switched to the boring but smooth Shado Pan.

[@ryanclough8967]

I mained feral druid in the last season. How're they looking for the expansion?

[@Chabaaa]

I have a few specs I want to play in TWW but I can't really decide on which to main so these videos really are a big help! Kudos! BTW where can I find the background music?

[@Chrisbo90]

Hey there is the plater profile you Use anywhere to get it ?

[@VesperalTV]

In my discord!

[@wowyersmart]

I love your UI, trying my best to copy it it feels clean

[@IWNFYG]

what do you think about ret paladins in new expansion, if its not that good I might turn back to being a warrior which I always loved

[@VesperalTV]

Ret is good and fun, but it's a VERY simple rotation - I'd probs get bored of it quick

[@Corboe]

Ret pal not that good ???? 😂😂😂 U not play WoW for Say that shit bro , ret pal it's mega enjoy gameplay and damage too u are blind lol

[@PawPawKitty]

From what I've seen in other videos, Ret will continue to be a drool on the keyboard and win spec. Don't be surprised to see about 50+% of the dps population rolling Ret paladin.

[@dark9nine]

@@VesperalTV And fury is incredibly complex right? lol

[@sjwhater]

​@@dark9nine fury is easy but at least 3x more complex than retrd paladin 😂

[@treybrizendine2058]

Have you tested frost dk yet? If so what are your thoughts and how does it compare to unholy. Love DK to have a tank spec but I’ve only used frost for DPS.

[@Frostingale]

He only thinks unholy, windwalker, warrior, rogue and demon hunter exist

[@jamesj5612]

Any thoughts on ret?

[@hajtaler1]

hi do you need level up on beta all to 80lev or is some option jump to max lev

[@lumjicsgo]

given that you haven't included several specs in the melee and ranged video, I'm wondering what does that mean? does it mean that they are neither winners nor losers? a lot of people are left confused by the exclusion of those other specs.

[@Dude-hb3ii]

Please tell me you’re gonna drop some guides before the new expansion comes out. Would be so huge for everyone. Earned my sub

[@georgealintanase1701]

Can you share your plater (hope it`s plater) profile? :D

[@chrisfchavez]

How is ret looking?

[@JohnB-ws4ge]

which would you say are tankiest dps specs this time around?

[@TheShawnMower]

Mage warlock spriest

[@TheRandomDude-qy1ev]

Enhancment storm build is the most fun melee IMO. Colors everywhere, basically can't die now. And just really fun.

[@VesperalTV]

Definitely agree

[@MrSaucyBeans]

You missed out frost DK and ret pally? And enhance shamam and feral druid

[@Frostingale]

unfortunately no-one cares about frost even though its a lot better to play now. ret pallies are a dime a dozen.

[@PawPawKitty]

No surprise Feral doesn't even get a mention, do we even exist in Blizzard's eyes?

[@frededy4]

no you never have and you never will.

[@Tuntin4]

Ehhh missed some? 😅

[@ramstab]

Me as an Enhancement Shaman reading this, I feel you brother. Stay strong!

[@Musiclover4822]

​@@ramstabEnhance literally has been slapping in DF, what are you on about. Your build was already near perfect, only problem was surviving.

[@ramstab]

@@Musiclover4822 the class is nowhere near perfect, but I understand your perspective

[@SlayerD2]

For Havoc all they need to do is add a glyph of fel rush which reduces the range of Fel rush in half.

[@aerolive8953]

that jump at 13:54 made my day! Thanks for that

[@jsgroove]

I'm surprised to not have seen Survival Hunter in this video. Was it just not to your fancy? I've seen so many players singing its praises so far!

[@Simonenepoteandre]

how about retri?

[@exporr]

0:15 Unholy DK 2:50 Windwalker Monk 5:00 Fury Warrior 6:40 Arms Warrior

[@StevenNeidlein]

No dh ?

[@Dreamerlok]

@@StevenNeidlein He only highlighted the winners that he mentioned.

[@StevenNeidlein]

@@Dreamerlok dh are winners

[@Dreamerlok]

@@StevenNeidlein Not according to VesperalTV

[@Lorkinette]

No survival love?

[@TJR123]

Love or even mention. I think they are still a melee class? Maybe he will talk them in ranged???

[@Corboe]

Survival not really problem with rework and it's good in globallity

[@terps710]

Not even going to bother watching knowing he didnt mention survival

[@TJR123]

@@terps710 yeah, I can't get enough so I will totally still watch

[@SamMathewsOfficial]

The whole reason I clicked on this video lol.

[@kernel2006]

Nice vid, thanks for letting us know your thoughts. But damn am I bummed about rogue tho. They should be great 😔!

[@TopicxWoW]

Was Survival a Runner up outside of DK, WW & Warrior? I've been hearing how much fun it is and smoother compared to Dragonflight. Seems like it got the love it needed not to mention the Hunter rework. However, due to how good the first 3 you mentioned are, I do believe it might get overshadowed in representation and damage. However it does have lust, increased tankiness and a much better utility kit. I do think it might break into top 3 melee DPS.

[@andreypavlov5187]

Is it a surprise that the developer for rogue and DH are one and the same and these specs suck the most ? Fire that guy already jeez.

[@TheShawnMower]

Yea shelved both. Actually also shelving druid... rip leather classes

[@mehmetozturk771]

Completely agree, both specs sucks forced to play around low duration buffs like subterfuge and inertia

[@nerdkartoffl9019]

@@mehmetozturk771 Huch much dps difference are we talking (for DH)? Are there numbers? If it's like 10 - 15% more dps IF executed nearly optimal, it's not really worth talking about.

[@Voltaire0630]

If it's the same people that made the changes in DF they did such a good job in DF for the talent trees. I am willing to give them a chance to fix if it's the same people.

[@Juxer_SC]

@@nerdkartoffl9019 I know you’re using arbitrary percentages but 10-15% would be an astronomical difference.

[@zac6337]

So no survival hunter, enchantment shaman, and feral druid love?

[@hvdiv17]

ww monk is looking really good and the blackout kick feels like what windfury should be. i mite have to main ww monk for the first time.

[@bobstoner415]

WW is incredibly fun. Can't go wrong and you dont see em as often.

[@neener461]

What about ret?

[@Stonemojo1]

what about enhancement shaman.

[@deltawolf]

"What about all the things that you said we were to gain?"

[@Chopingo2]

I though unholy dk got nerf to the ground? As a DH main i will not be playing DH from the start. I was thinking monk for the first time.

[@benjaminpoppe6024]

As a DK / Warrior Main im happy. Between BDK and Prot, what do you prefer? Trying to get one of them as a Tank main, the other as a DD Main.

[@MuttleyGames]

Get BDK as it is usually very good for raids and also has a battle res. Prot tanks don't usually get in the meta. It's up to who you find more fun at the end of the day.

[@stalkersaijayin9646]

what about enhancement i cant see it tho ?

[@TheDopeGoblin]

we're so bad we don't even get a spot on the tier list LMAOOO

[@stalkersaijayin9646]

@@TheDopeGoblin well cya other expansion then haha wont play this shitty blittard company game ngl ;)

[@TheDopeGoblin]

@@stalkersaijayin9646 switch to hunter homie. I did it and it plays similar but ranged and op

[@robertlee9350]

It's neither a winner or loser. It's sitting solid in the middle. This list is just the top of the top and bottom of the bottom in Vesp's eyes. At least when it comes to MOST FUN. Not top performers.

[@JustinValentino]

Thanks for the video Vesp :D looks like great fun

[@VesperalTV]

Thanks dude!

[@betahumanx]

What is more fast paced? Fury or WW?

[@Wowzombie15]

Fury is a way faster paced spec where you spam your generators and use it on only one ability, that’s rampage. Windwalker is still fast, but a little slower to keep efficient damage with the Windwalker mastery. If your talking about mobility too, Windwalker has much more mobility tools than fury

[@driiifter]

Yeah um anyone with an IQ over 100 is turning up their nose at Outlaw and Sub. Just ridiculous how much bloat and APM there is. If I wanted to challenge my APM, I would just take an online typing test. They need to hire a Rogue developer who plays ARPGs and video games. Do yourself a favor and just play Frost DK.

[@PawPawKitty]

Mavis Beacon is calling you🤣

[@Jay-407]

Does outlaw atleast feel similar to how it is now?

[@Hyperion602]

It has barely been changed at all, so yeah, it feels mostly fine if you like current Outlaw. The big problem with it is just how ass the hero talents are, so everyone else has these shiny new toys and you feel worse by comparison, even if the base gameplay is basically identical.

[@poglordkovok1580]

personally I think outlaw feels worse on beta than it does on live rn

[@visualstv4077]

As a warrior and DK main I’m hyped for the reworks

[@Doug4130]

I'm legit impressed they made warrior feel as good as they have. everything feels so weighty and impactful. arms and fury having such distinct play styles while satisfyingly meeting the class fantasy of beating face, with prot feeling like a constantly advancing brick shit house of a wrecking ball just makes warrior chefs kiss, really looking forward to TWW

[@wesleyvl8572]

Do the healers nexts

[@markojovanovic9651]

So hyped for warriors and dks finally

[@Ghrolz]

It's only the opener that's long for assasination, after that it mega simple.

[@Fleshbag453]

Honestly, I'm really looking forward to trying windwalker out in the prepatch. I know it won't be complete until you're lvl 80 but I've always loved windwalker and the playstyle of never pressing the same button twice in a row feels great to me. I really hope they're good though because getting a raid spot as a melee dps that's also a hybrid class is a real challenge.

[@TheShawnMower]

I used to main death knight and Warlock and love summoning / edgelord stuff in my WoW. Probably going to play my Maghari Death Knight to tank and dps as unholy as my main Alt. They have faster mount speed and pet health so ita perfect synergy

[@vasileghidu7257]

Spot on on havoc!

[@JOD3_N]

Think i will be playing warrior this time around and Ret pally

[@eggrollz5481]

I may be taking a break from rogue to play windwalker since in a mw main anways....sad.

[@glenneric1]

I can't consume any data these days unless it's in Tier list format! 😤

[@champboehm7863]

9 cd opener is sick

[@Sly_404]

Guess your referring to Sub. In reality its even worse as Thistle Tea, Shadow Dance, Shadow Blades, Symbol of Death are all off the GCD. So it's more like you are supposed to press up to 12 buttons over 6 globals (assuming you have an amp trinket and pot on top).

[@benkelly7182]

I think some people are into it. As sadistic as it is.

[@m_rod9562]

Actually, its 10 if you count Symbols of Death. But Goremaws bite they dont take, dance and cold blood can be macro’d to other abilities that you’d want to use together. Such as shadow blades and shadow dance, as well as, cold blood and secret technique. Thistle tea can also be macrod worst case scenario.

[@Hyperion602]

It's not actually that bad, that section of the video was mildly disingenuous (probably not intentional). You don't play Goremaw's, Cold Blood just gets macro'd in to Secret Technique and removed from your bar, Shuriken Tornado is AoE only and also smooths out the next 4 globals, etc. It *is* still really bad and a few of the buttons *cough* Flagellation *cough* need to be removed, but it's easier than this particular video makes it seem.

[@alsius9162]

My fellow English brother with another banger and mash

[@GDT1124]

I had no idea that Zach from Try Guys did WoW content.

[@MrCbrix]

POtential WW Monk M+ meta?

[@wesleyvl8572]

Make healer vidoe nexts

[@vincentnatalroman494]

No enhancement??

[@SakikoFF14]

IM SO FUCKING HYPED FOR UH DK

[@Zeferet.]

The AOE touch of death was fun the first hundred times. Then it got annoying xd Edit: Meant to say times not dungeons.

[@VesperalTV]

lmao i never liked it

[@ethanmcclelland8672]

I will not miss frantically trying to click a second nameplate with low health and get another touch of death off

[@Deivias393]

I love fury but at 38 years old i can't do it anymore, 20 years of it has destroyed my wrist lol

[@plaagbeest2429]

''It feels like i need to have 9 years experience of playing on the piano'' (c) Vesp 2024 best new quote for sure XD

[@VesperalTV]

Lmaooo

[@Baezu]

No survival mention

[@marcelrodriguez2067]

Idk why but i was never able to do alot of dps with unholy in the 10 years ive played wow but ill give it a shot at beta.

[@sardonicspartan9343]

Momentum was the original havoc demon hunter build

[@Drebin]

Funnily enough I always found rogue to play better in bfa then it does now

[@darkwa456]

I main assination and subtlety dont ask me why ive just always enjoyed them, but your 100% right subtley is crazy complicated and bloated, i can understand why rogue hero talents are all passive because the specs already are very complicated for the average player.

[@karvakorvakoira]

I hate momentum so much. I've wanted to raid as DH for ages but that bloody thing keeps me from doing it

[@huytran2632]

I recently got back onto WOW, and I have to say that yes, the history in the past with the path Blizzard took definitely had downsides, but now that I’ve rejoined the fray it brings back great memorable and nostalgic moments I’ve had playing WOW. Let us hope that Blizzard is on a new path and learned from their past! FOR AZEROTH AND HORD HOMIES! 😆

[@leonardceres9061]

idk I kinda love momentum because why not? idgaf about moving. I haven't had a problem with dieing to mechanics.

[@blehhgg]

Alright, im UHDK in the war within. I really like the SP but hotdamn!

[@markojovanovic9651]

I miss outlaw from 10.0

[@KroesGaming]

SV Hunter is still a "melee spec" 🙂 Even if most abilities are ranged. Would love to have seen it in this video.

[@StoryoftheYear16]

Insane enhance isn't on here for pure fun

[@nathanw4897]

Havoc main since Legion. But stopped playing after season 1 in DF and don’t feel like I will be going back any time soon. The simple gameplay with tons of mobility was so epic but making the mobility be part of your damage rotation killed it imo. And the penalty for messing up your rotation just makes it not fun.

[@Arkael1110]

You didn't use a single death runback in your background footage for Rogue, my disappointment is immeasurable. ;) Great video as always, love to see you gaining popularity. Look forward to watching more streams and uploads

[@VesperalTV]

Hahahah don’t expose!! Thankyou so much dude

[@Traximmus]

All the sub cds on screen and still more that werent listed like symbols haha

[@poorwowgameplay]

Momentum isn’t required unless you want to absurdly min/Max your build. As it stands everyone is grumpy about the wrong thing. Your momentum window is nowhere near as impactful as your Essence Break window. So don’t be afraid to run without momentum.

[@hernanquinonez767]

It doesn’t feel good regardless knowing you’re not doing the damage you can only because of how much movement is tied to our damage profile. What other class has this problem? Just get rid of the damage coming from dashing and leaping back. Warrior charge doesn’t do damage. Neither does roll or dash. Hunter disengage doesn’t increase dmg. These classes can use important movement abilities when they’re needed as they’re supposed to. Not as a current demon hunter and it’s felt terrible. I mained dh since legion but these past seasons have been unbearable with the required movement

[@poorwowgameplay]

@@hernanquinonez767 fun fact. If you don’t like it then don’t play it. You’re not going to lag too far behind and in many cases will do better dps than DH players attempting to carry the mental load of perfect momentum play. BEkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIJJRSAAAAAAAAAAAAg0SSgSSCSgSJCA This build does great all purpose damage and you’ve got 2 or more flex points. Yes you’ll still be hitting vengeful retreat, but you won’t be flying off shit.

[@fred6584]

Momentum is my favorite DH spec

[@somebodyelse9696]

RIP Havoc, i guess im playing monk then. Feral and Rogue seem off limits too... wtf

[@StanislavTsanev]

It's overwhelming how they always forget the Shamans and the DH ! Dh still the only class with 2 specs and the dame playstyle as when it started. Shams never got a customizable Wolf form while Druids got tons !

[@josevinicius6236]

About havoc. It is one of the specs with most mobility, but the less mobile spec in the game. A lot of mobility, but you spend everything in the rotation, and when the mechanic comes you need to walk your way. That sucks!

[@Byhythloh]

For years I have jumped between classes each new season, unable to pick an "all time main". With TWW, Unholy is now the version I always wished it had been. I now exclusively main DK, no matter the meta.

[@xXDANMUFCXx]

How can you make a melee showcase video and not even mention all of the melee?

[@fugazi8115]

maybe read the title first

[@Geestar1337]

imagine not trying survival hunter lul

[@terps710]

Bro sits down when he pees

[@KiaStout]

And survival feels amazing on the beta, the only reason I'm not maining is because I like to have a tank spec.

[@dasilentduck]

Really can't wait to try out unholy.

[@poglordkovok1580]

Oh good the classes I like are at the bottom

[@sonicalmods781]

I always enjoyed assassination rogue been a more "sophisticated" spec, problem is it also used to be rewarding and not only punishing... That's an actually scary turn for wow... Making every spec easy and not rewarding at all, i think we ve been there with bfa and results were devastating... You remember pruning and everything... Less punishing should be less rewarding, no content creators never mention this and that was a big part of WoW success imo...

[@dwseagle17]

Uuuuh oh!!! Better put those damn time stamps in there or all the people who “skip these videos” will be sure to take time to leave their comments!

[@VesperalTV]

LMAO

[@swarles354]

Where's the survival love at? Finally a major overhaul of the class that feels good and not even a mention? Sadge

[@SlumpdWiz]

Damn Ret and enhance weren't even mentioned...

[@StevenNeidlein]

Neither was DH

[@MacGregor3]

bis edit with ur vengeful retreat yep

[@coleharris1945]

In regards to Assassination and tying an ability to ambush being counterintuitive - Blindside exists. Blindside is already taken in the overwhelming majority of builds for Assassin b/c it helps smooth out combo point generation while also not having to pool energy to make the most out of Envenom. So, no. It's not counter intuitive. Additionally, Vanish exists. And is also part of your general rotation. And you have 2 charges. And it's a -relatively- low cooldown. You can also just stealth between pulls. What's interesting about the talent is that, for the most part, you have absolute control over when you proc it. Underwhelming as a hero talent in general? Absolutely. I main Rogue atm, and while I am no Rogue god, I do okay. And I'm quite sad about what they're looking like in TWW. (PS) - I speak plainly. So take it on good faith that nothing said is intended to be inflammatory in case someone decides to try and jump down my throat b/c they arbitrarily decided the tone was disrespectful..

[@Azliaris]

All that and you didn't realise blindside doesn't apply the mark LOL

[@coleharris1945]

@@Azliaris All that and you didn't realize that I'd also mentioned other methods of applying that still mean it's not "counter intuitive". Did ... did you even read beyond the first like 2 sentences? Are did that make you hit your syllable cap for the month?

[@Azliaris]

@@coleharris1945 vanish doesn't even come close making up for the lost of dance , and you would know that if you spent 2 seconds in beta. Not even mentioning how this doubles down on using utility as a damage amp which is universally hated, but keep talking like you have any relevant exp when your very first line already shows you didn't bother reading (too many syllables?) the deathmark tooltip

[@Azliaris]

Deathstalkers mark*

[@coleharris1945]

@@Azliaris Lmfao. No.

[@yolvagingras2705]

Frost dk?

[@davidvann242]

No survival mention, no watchy

[@VicerExciser]

Frost DK?

[@Tehstampede]

I've mained Ass since TBC and it's been a roller coaster of a ride since then. I love the spec but Blizz needs to figure their shit out with the rogue specs man. Ass should be the double dagger poison/bleed DoT spec, Combat should be the big weapon dual-wield AoE spec, and Sub should be the dagger/sword combo spec that focuses on interrupts and stuns.

[@lankeysob]

Assassination was my favorite when they had Exsanguinate. Really wish that was still part of the spec.

[@DemonicInfinity]

I was ass too with the onlyfan spec , best goldmaking I got on wow

[@markaurelius2333]

survival hunter not melee?

[@Flirt136]

Read the title of the vid and try again

[@terps710]

Bro is out of touch

[@markaurelius2333]

@@Flirt136 I read it.. whats your point? survival hunter is melee.. same es enhancement shaman or feral.. if you make a video about winners/losers I expect all spects to get mentioned. there is no "medicore spec"-category in this video.. either you are a winner or loser spec

[@Flirt136]

​@@markaurelius2333 Use your head I'm sure you can figure it out champ

[@markaurelius2333]

@@Flirt136 :)))))))) funny guy.. next time dont bother answering people if thats all you have to say

[@travisshipcott2808]

Missed ret, frost, survival, enhance, feral ... Oof

[@rstarrkk]

cant wait for the ranged vid!

[@VesperalTV]

It’s already up!

[@Drack093]

Blizz 100% ruined outlaw rogue. If I wanted to play around stealth windows I’d play subtlety, but I wanted to keep playing the cool swashbuckling pirate rogue they introduced during legion. I don’t understand why they made this change, it took away a lot of flavor and “fun” of outlaw. Just being able to go nuts and slam cooldowns on every pull was great, the reward of playing it well was exponential as well. Now it’s just “hngggh go stealth use gun hnngh”