The Woman Caught in Adultery and St. Augustine

[@t2goblue313]

I wish more catholic would explain things as clearly as you do. I just found this channel and I love it. I'm a southern Baptist now but after studying the church fathers and lessening to you I hope to be a catholic one day. God bless

[@Gruenders]

Thomas Ebert same haha

[@Pantokrator1]

Thomas Ebert and@@Gruenders You are both truly blessed because not everyone hears the calling. Christ and His Mother and all the Prophets and Saints are waiting for you. Love and Peace to you both.

[@williamchami3524]

Deo gratias!

[@74soll]

Beautiful. Thank you. I am more at ease now that my past sins were indeed blotted out.

[@williamchami3524]

Well said, Dr. Pitre. God bless you.

[@jerryg3524]

Dr. Pitre thanks much for this explanation of the woman taken in adultery. A brilliant ex-Jewish atheist has recently argued that this passage was added to the gospels at a later date and was not authentic. Great to know St. Augustin had a version where it was indeed part of St. John's Gospel and his explanation of its meaning. Only Jesus could have carried out such an act of compassion 2,000 years ago and implicitly condemned the barbaric method of punishment of many societies worldwide at that time, or even today. Jesus also put to shame bigots of all kinds and his lesson is still relevant today

[@jerryg3524]

@Mick Q I appreciate your comment but pl. re-read what I wrote. Jesus "implicitly" condemned stoning. For this reason this method of punishment disappeared in most Christian countries, one of the few gains towards a Jewish-Christian ideal of compassion in a still very imperfect and evil world, then as now. You may well argue that it was replaced in the Christian West by equally horrible forms of punishment for witches, but that is another argument. Jesus was mainly preaching about higher spiritual laws, he didn't attempt to create yet another set of man-made laws and made it clear: "give to Cesar the things that are Cesar's and to God the things that are God's". Compassion is at the root of Jesus message in the best of Jewish Messianic tradition, for example, on being arrested prior to being Crucified he healed one of the soldiers that came to arrest him and whose ear the apostle Peter had cut off with a sword telling Peter, "put away your sword, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword". These are all spiritual teachings meant for his followers down through the ages up to today. That so-called Christians don't learn these lessons very well is a different argument. I know about the golden rule and its various origins, Jesus was not only concerned with rules but the practice in real life of the rule

[@jerryg3524]

@Mick Q you seem to be very angry at Jesus. You're right, mosaic law could be brutal (but also merciful). Jesus, whether you believe he was God or just an enlightened spiritual teacher, certainly tried to humanize mosaic law. We in the West today look on any kind of stoning as a barbaric act. The Christian Church's reaction against this stone-age practice has its origin not only in the passage so wonderfully discussed in this video by Dr. Pitre, but from the stoning of St. Stephen, the 1st Christian martyr. Just compare it to the shariah laws enacted yesterday by Sultan Bolkiah of Brunei against gays. Don't be angry at Jesus, be angry at the blindness of the human species ... was blind but now I see

[@christopherlyons5900]

It was added to John's Gospel, all scholars agree. That doesn't make it inauthentic. We can be sure much that was originally in the four gospels didn't happen. The four gospels all contradict each other, for one thing. They tell different stories. I believe this particular story was remembered to have happened, and was eventually sandwiched into John's Gospel--you can see very clearly it's not written by the same author or authors. Scholars have known this a long time. But that has nothing to do with whether we believe it happened. Also, not sure why we need to know the atheist is Jewish. The most toxic atheists tend to have been raised Christian.

[@jerryg3524]

@@christopherlyons5900 ok then, I didn't want to name who this Jewish atheist is out of tact; he's one of my favorite intellectuals. It's Sam Harris. From what you write about the four gospels I can see you are no biblical scholar. The authenticity of what is in the canonical gospels has been debated for centuries and continues today. I would agree there is myth in the Bible as a whole, but some of it is evidently fact.

[@christopherlyons5900]

@@jerryg3524 Sam Harris is pretty dubiously Jewish, since his father was a Quaker, and is mom wasn't religious. I suppose he's an intellectual, but a pretty shallow one. His idea of a deep thought is "Hey, if a Muslim government had nuclear weapons, would we then have to nuke the entire country, kill everyone in it? Would that be ethical?" I am not a fundamentalist, I don't take everything in the gospels as literal fact. The four gospels were written to people who believed in Jesus, but had differing ideas about him, and none of the authors met him, but had heard stories, some of which were based on real events, others not. The Pericope Adulterae, most schoalrs believe, wasn't originally in John's Gospel, but was put in there because people remembered this had happened to Jesus--it didn't entirely match the beliefs of early Christianity. Jesus doesn't condemn the woman for committing adultery. He seems to imply that he, like the Pharisees, is a sinner, and therefore has no right to do so. He also isn't angry at the Pharisees, as he is elsewhere in John's gospel. He sees them as fellow Jews who are making a mistake--which he helps them correct. They listen to him respectfully, and take his advice to not kill the woman. In spite of the Pericope saing they meant to trap him, that doesn't really make sense--they saw him preaching in the Temple, and they went to grab some random woman committing adultery? As to why they didn't take the man as well, as Jewish law required, that's probably because the man wasn't Jewish, and they'd all be killed themselves. Jews had no right to carry out the death penalty under Roman law, a power the Romans reserved for themselves (and used a lot). The husband wasn't there, possibly because he'd abandoned his wife, and maybe she was accepting presents from Roman soldiers in exchange for her favors, just to support herself and her family. A lot of possible scenarios--most likely whoever preserved the story didn't know them, since the woman left, without thanking Jesus, or becoming his follower--as she surely would have done, if this story was made up as a way of aggrandizing Jesus, and to serve as a tool for evangelization. Sam Harris doesn't know any of this, because he's not a scholar of early Christianity, knows very little about scripture. I'm no scholar myself, but I try to know more. Harris is the type who figures he knows it all already. Not worth my time. But have fun. :)

[@SarahAnne44AVEMaria]

Thank you! Ave Maria and God bless you and your work!! 🙏🏻❤️‍🔥

[@vincentcastrillo3914]

Bravo. Modern people always seem to forget... go and sin no more

[@aspeelee8323]

"Go and sin no more!" ...pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth, we, all human, have sins in us! How many can actually do it?! Who can actually do it?!

[@giovannimartini6405]

"God asks you to do what you can and ask for you cannot" Saint Agustine

[@nathanngumi8467]

Amen. Jesus sets us free from our past.

[@paulwright7551]

Augustine had no idea that this passage was inserted about the time he was born. No manuscript has it before his birth. Augustine attempts to explain the verse as accepted in his day.

[@hey.hombre]

I've listened to this topic and not once has anyone mentioned the man involved in the adultery. The woman is caught in the very act of adultery and brought to Jesus. Did they already kill the man? Did they let him go? Why was only the woman brought to be judged? Leviticus 20:10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."

[@mystearicanohr9521]

Well maybe it was a setup? It says they caught her in the act of adultery, as in they likely knew exactly what was going down and waited in hiding to say “gotcha!” Sounds like a setup and the man may have been in on it. Perhaps he got some clemency for helping the elders with their scheme.

[@bumblebee5926]

Jesus is mercy.

[@rashmoe7585]

in what chapter do we find this actually??

[@85008godzilla]

I want to be your student show me the way. Awesome video

[@banquo80s99]

Good

[@mikepoulin3020]

Jesus gave clemency, He commuted her sentence, He didn't say she wasn't guilty, or she did not deserve the penalty, or even that she was forgiven...He commuted her sentence to give her the opportunity to repent and reform....

[@observer73]

You want to put limits to what God can do? God doesn't have to answer to anyone, the whole universe is His possession. He can do whatever He wants, whenever he wants, wherever He wants. (The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; -Psalms 24 V 1)

[@pamelacowart]

I am having trouble finding the reference at 1:49 in the video that says the quote came from Augustine, Homilies on the Gospel of John, 33:6-7. Can anyone help with a link?

[@mike67mj]

1:49 is a second,. could you specify the exact statement that you are having trouble with. Thank you

[@pamelacowart]

It is the quote on the slid at that time. The bottom of the slide references Augustine, Homilies on the Gospel of John. 33:6-7; trans . Barncut. I am trying to find these quotes directly from Augustine to reference in a paper but I am not finding them. @@mike67mj

[@terrynichols5714]

Interesting that you noted that this FABLE is not in the Inspired Word of God. Then you treat it like it was, so you are comfortable with what a man would write while you ignore what the Holy Spirit of God has written.

[@jimmcintyre4390]

❤️

[@Christabbaword]

1 Corinthians 5: 1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man making physical children with another’s wife. 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so he may be saved on Lord’s day

[@jvlp2046]

Let us analyze the WOMAN caught in the Act of Adultery... According to the Law of Moses, if a Woman is caught in the act of Adultery, both the Woman and the Man who was caught in the act of Adultery must be presented to the High Priest or Judges, plus the accuser such as the husband of the woman and wife of the man must be presented too... If both are single, then it is not called Adultery but Fornication or Prostitution... The bible clearly said ADULTERY, therefore either both were married or one of them was married... correct?... YES In the Book of John, the Woman caught in the act of Adultery was presented "ALONE" by the Jewish High Priest with the Jewish people and presented to Christ Jesus for entrapment... Where was the MAN whom the woman was caught in the act of Adultery?... why not presented?... Why were their own Husband and Wife as the accuser not present too?... not presented also... why?... According to the Law of Moses, if proven both man and woman caught in the Act of Adultery are true, the FIRST to cast the stone on them are their own Husband and Wife, but where were they when they presented the woman to Christ Jesus... why the High Priest never presented all of them, but the woman alone to Christ Jesus? Perhaps, that was the reason why Christ Jesus bend down to the ground and wrote with his finger in the sand, nobody knows why and what Jesus' wrote, but perhaps Christ Jesus wrote that the Adultery case presented to him was a FRAUD/LIE... Christ Jesus knew very well the S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) of the Law of Moses... most probably the woman is just a prostitute without a husband, thus her case was a Non-Jewish Prostitution and not a Jewish Adultery... thus the woman can not be stoned to death for she was not a Jew but a Gentile... If she was a Jew, where is her husband?... If both were single Jewish, then the case brought to Jesus was not supposed to be Adultery but FORNICATION... YES, it is true both Adultery and Fornication for the Jewish People are punishable by death...but why is the man not presented?... the woman can not fornicate by herself, Jewish people can not stone the woman alone... but both man and woman must die together by being stoned to death, that is the S.O.P. for the Law of Moses. Therefore, the ADULTERY case was weak and fraudulent, with lots of loopholes and technicalities to be prosecuted "Fairly and Justly"... Christ said, "I neither condemn you, go and sin no more."... The sin that Christ Jesus was telling the woman not to sin again, was about Prostitution (selling sex) because Christ knew she has no husband and the case is not about Adultery, the High Priest Lied to trap Jesus Christ... To God be the Glory, Power, and Honor in Christ Jesus name... Amen...

[@deesiile5671]

Amen ,yes indeed

[@deesiile5671]

That's why Christ came ,because most of Moses laws was twisted by those who are in power to toucher those who are powerless .indeed Christ brought freedom to all

[@rocklerock495]

Wisdom

[@defenestratefalsehoods]

This story does not appear in any of the older bibles. How can you lie to people? Just like mark 9-20 also dont appear in the oldest bibles.

[@shyakaxdeus2440]

👋👋👋

[@jvlp2046]

Perhaps the Story Happened but the Way the "TRIAL" was Presented and Executed based on the Law of Moses was so very Wrong... why and how?... 1st, the Woman Caught in the Act of adultery was presented alone to Christ Jesus... 2nd, where was the man whom the woman was caught adultery with?... not presented 3rd, the accusation was about Adultery, logically understood they were both married, why were their spouses not presented to accuse them?... 4th, based on the Law of Moses, the first to "Cast (throw) the Stone" to them were their Spouses but were not presented... not the witnesses to cast the first stone. 5th, when Christ Jesus asked the woman caught in adultery, she addressed Christ as "Sir or Lord (means master)" instead of addressing Christ as "Rabbi (teacher)" this shows that she was not a Jew/Hebrew but a Gentile Woman and according to the Law of Moses, she was not accountable by death for she is not under the Law of Moses... remember the story of Samaritan (Gentile) woman drawing water from the well with many husbands, she also addressed Christ Jesus "SIR" even after she knew Christ is a Prophet of the Jews... (John 4:4-26) 6th, in reality, the Woman was caught in Prostitution or Fornication and not Adultery because she has no husband and she was a Gentile, that was why she was presented alone to Christ, perhaps that was also the reason why Christ bend down to write something on the sand/ground, to document that this trial was ALL about ENTRAPMENT... and not about the Law of Moses punishing fairly all Jewish Adulterers.

[@Anyone690]

Thank you Dr. Pitre I hope we can meet at SBL together this fall I would love to buy you lunch and pick your brain

[@saemushailstorm3135]

oh , & augustine's life ? not worth comment .

[@annasengendo6973]

saemus hailstorm :