The World of Infinite Warfare Doesn't Work

Infinite Warfare tells a story that's been told many times before and unfortunately makes a lot of weird decisions along the way.
In Incoming, The Templin Institute discusses the theories and ideas found across alternate worlds.
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[@geraldsoria1764]

"Every *male citizen* required to take part in 15 years of military service starting at *age 12* " thats pretty much the whole demographic of CoD game.

[@thomas.02]

Gerald Soria no wonder the player is supposed to hate the SDF.....the more we know....

[@mattstorm360]

@@thomas.02 It would have been cooler if we are the bad guys.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Cod player: War is cool because action Every other gamer: A real war what wrong with you

[@ArcturusOTE]

Yowch, and I thought Chernov got burnt good

[@crypto1223]

Steven Anchundia RTS players would whole heartedly agree.

[@keisufederationmapping2748]

‘ok so you’re going to be in a coma for 24 hours for this advanced surgery’ ‘ok’ ‘what do you mean i missed an interplanetary war?'

[@goombanr3411]

imagine telling that to your grandchilderen. "I heard about the mars rebellion, what were you doing during that time Opa?" "err well... I was recovering from a surgery, and slept through the entire rebellion."

[@thecommandant2831]

Lol. Its facts. I mean seriously. I could be at work and miss the fact a interplanetary civil war broke out.

[@tendaisagwete4584]

Well at least it wasn't as short as the Anglo Zanzibar War.

[@gamejunky3040]

Story maybe flawed, but we can all possible agreed on one thing. We all liked our robot bro Ethan.

[@murciadoxial8056]

Yeah... He was the only guy I liked in that piece of shit game, and I actually liked him a lot.

[@indranillkh1470]

Same

[@glitchtastic759]

His jokes were the best

[@mondaysinsanity8193]

Ethan made the game dude was a straight up bro

[@arkanterian4663]

Brobot Ethan #1

[@forrestpenrod2294]

“I’d like to think humanity has learned-“ Alright I’m going to stop you right there 😂

[@AdeptusAmogus]

Even more so in this current geopolitical climate.

[@unitedkingdom3733]

Ah, They are taking advice from me

[@allistancooper1502]

While the world is still in need of change it has improved since the colonization era and even the recent world war 2 era nation are more willing for change than eighty years ago you can't say it will be the same a hundred or two hundred years in the future that is just a close minded view of everything going on around us.

[@les_crow]

@@allistancooper1502 People behave differently from older generations because the reality that shaped them differs as does their situation(usually), not because they've learned from any histories. They don't learn, realities always come full circle and the same bad decisions are always rationalized again.

[@rawrpwnsaur]

@@unitedkingdom3733 *The Dutch East India Company has entered the chat*

[@TheBeardyPenguin]

Halo and The Expanse did interplanetary warfare much better.

[@seanezeh2290]

We kinda know nothing about Halo's Interplanetary War other than it lasted for over a year and Callisto was the site of the peace talks tbh

[@NEVERMAKESVIDEOS3V3R]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the concept, not the specific event. The Human-Covenant war lasted 28 years.

[@seanezeh2290]

I'm not talking about the Covenant War, I'm talking about the Pre-Insurrectionist Conflict that unified the UN in the first place. And Ah.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

True

[@arshiamaleki3999]

TheBeardyPenguin lol I’m subbed to you

[@ericdorland3707]

Infinite Warfare's universe just seems like a really dumb version of The Expanse's universe

[@zico739]

That’s exactly it.

[@trevorderringer269]

Pretty much.

[@Joshua_N-A]

It's the writing I'd say. See how they portray a Russian officer in the 2019 MW reboot. SDF looks even more evil than Zeon from Gundam. Even in Gundam SEED, a ZAFT officer shot Patrick Zala when they already won the battle (and maybe the war but it's unclear) when he's about to shoot GENESIS on Earth. Salen would've been killed by his own men had the SDF personnel have any conscience. The attack on Geneva is like IW version of colony drop on Sydney. Which means if SDF lose, they'll be tried as war criminals.

[@TheHalflingLad]

What I really, really don't get is why they didn't just flip the protagonist's and antagonist's loyalties when they wrote the story. Everything would've made sooo much more sense that way, and SDF could've easily fit the bill for a classic underdog resistance story if they were written slightly differently.

[@thefrenchbastard1646]

​@@TheHalflingLad the story can't show the rebels being the good guy because they rebel against the empire it would undermine it's core premise of the empire being the good guys actualy, please ignore the fact a some small local rebel faction could never build an armada strong enouf to treaten the good empire because the good empire is at war with them and the good empire would never start a war of agression to bully the weak into submission

[@hetzer5926]

Military officer: *shoots his own soldier* Literally everyone: “your tactics confuse and frighten me”

[@rakshithanand8262]

Military officer: "You humour me greatly with your arrogance and contempt"

[@IkeFanBoy64]

I just imagine an alternate version of that scene where everyone in the squad starts going off on Kotch and end up completely forgetting about Wolf and his team freezing/suffocating to death cause they were too busy arguing.

[@caav56]

@@IkeFanBoy64 And then we get Caleb Thies (dude from trailer) as a main antagonist!

[@JackPhoenixCz]

Imperium of Man: "We've got few openings for comissars, are you interested?"

[@hetzer5926]

@@JackPhoenixCz, only if I get to purge heretics in holy fire

[@gabriel__opazo]

"somewhere on Earth a guy was recovering from a bad hangover and slept through an entire intergalactic war" I CAN'T BREATHE THIS IS SO GOOD

[@ItsDaKoolaidDude]

Fun fact: We irl had shorter wars than a single 24 hour period. The Anglo-Zanzibar War of 1896, a war fought between the United Kingdom and the Zanzibar Sultanate. The conflict lasted a grand total of around 40 minutes, which currently takes place as our _shortest_ war in history. What essentially happened was the Zanzibar Sultan had died and they were needing a replacement leader, the British wanted one that had interests in maintaining an alliance between the two while Zanzibar's next in line didn't. A bit of bickering involved and the British gave the "either keep to the treaty or else", upon saying no, a nearby British warship opened fire at the palace. That quickly turned the "no" into a "ok fine"

[@matro2]

It's also incorrect. The war was not even close to intergalactic; it all took place in one solar system.

[@bloodygekkon5048]

@@ItsDaKoolaidDude 19-20 september 2023. Third Karabakh War. 25 hours lengh

[@bloodygekkon5048]

@@ItsDaKoolaidDude operation "Just Cause"

[@monks311]

You are right, even the main character is telling his Commander that an invasion is imminent, but the commander just ignore him and continue with the fleet parade anyway. In which it resulted in the death of thousands of Innocent life's.

[@MathMasterism]

*lives

[@falseprophet1415]

Chances are, his superiors were actual SetDef sleeper agents/sympathizers/bank-rollers.

[@monks311]

@@falseprophet1415 only one was. The guy who shut down the big AA guns defenses

[@monks311]

@@MathMasterism lol

[@GTD_Galatea]

The commander actually agrees with the main character. But he can't do anything since his hands are tied due to politics.

[@nickdeboer4494]

Because no time is invested in making solid storylines based on logic.

[@nickdeboer4494]

Games are hated or disliked for a reason. Exceptions are the occasional troll

[@hemidas]

Not to mention they ripped off the plot from Mobile Suit Gundam.

[@chaosfire321]

Gundam didn't invent the idea of a UN analogue going to war with separatists.

[@4G12]

@@chaosfire321 In the canonical Macross timeline, there was a major anti UN separatist war not that long before the real threat to humanity's survival arrived, the Zentradi. Some of the anti UN nations included Russia and Isreal.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@@4G12 Israel and Russia working together against the UN? Truly a work of fiction

[@thecosmicundead6894]

Another thing that IW gets wrong is that they are depicted as “evil space villains” and not at all as an empire trying to fight for its protection. For example in BO2, Raul Melendez had a vendetta against the US because they killed his sister in an accident. And the Soviets in WaW fought the Germans because their home was being threatened by the enemy. It would’ve been much better if we got to play as a soldier or an admiral for the SDF, that way we get to see their side of the story. Maybe the SDF could’ve fought SATO because of poor relations (trade tariffs, violation of SDF airspace, etc.) Instead what we have here is just “eurgh evil space people.”

[@Alkrielm]

I argee I allow want a to play them

[@leswause8937]

@@Alkrielm What makes me sad though is that we will probably never have this universe expanded upon, considering just how hard it was crapped on by the public at launch. Remember the whole launch trailer dislike debacle?

[@Alkrielm]

LeSwause oh yea but it would be great if we got a side campaign for them if we finish the game

[@leswause8937]

@@Alkrielm Agreed. I would love to have the lore further explored, even if it's just a comic or something.

[@JSSQuelloAutentico]

It's the SDF that are the attackers. They have a highly perverted vision of earth.

[@thenewadventuresofhenry6998]

The most unrealistic aspect of this story is the massive amount of foreign military presence in Switzerland. Switzerland is a big player in the United Nations, but it seeks to divorce itself completely from international military alliances to prevent war. I don't see them changing that doctrine in the future.

[@playstationarusu]

Yeah about that

[@thenewadventuresofhenry6998]

SCRATCH THAT

[@thenewadventuresofhenry6998]

@MATT CYPRESS Yes

[@lifevest1]

*Jazz Music Stops*

[@knightmare5097]

This aged well…

[@ImperatorZor]

The SDF: basically the Poor Man's Helghast.

[@BUSSTISEBOOST]

ImperatorZor ahh the Helghast, the most badass looking bastards of a human colony. Like the Death Korps Of Krieg.

[@stinkyglasses]

I think of the SDF as space nazis but more subtle than the Helghast

[@jaffarebellion292]

Poor man's OPA.

[@murciadoxial8056]

@@BUSSTISEBOOST you mean the jin roh clones?

[@illegalalien6542]

Yup

[@LLorax0]

Inter-planetary war not inter-galactic. Not even inter-stellar.

[@LLorax0]

@Decaf Crusader Interstellar means occuring or situated between stars. No where in this video is travel to another star or even galaxy mentioned. Everything is interplanetary as presented.

[@acemanmkiii]

I honestly believe that exasperation saps brainpower

[@frankiefierro7129]

So its a inter-solar war?

[@LLorax0]

@@frankiefierro7129 No it is contained to one solar system inter means between. It would be an intrastellar or intra-solar war.

[@CvijaFaQ]

just call it space war. There, settled.

[@timothymclean]

There's an easy way to solve most of those problems: Just don't have Earth unite! Earth vs. Mars/Venus/Titan/asteroids/etc isn't very plausible, but NATO/Armstrong Colony/Galileo Base/etc vs. Neo-Warsaw-Pact/Red Mars/Gagarin Station/etc could be. Both sides have comparable resources and manpower, plausible motives for war strong enough to unite (enough of) the population are easier to write, and you can even avoid the physics issues by having colonies from both sides on enough major bodies (and the Earth, of course).

[@AdotLOM]

Ive actually thought of that as a plausible Gundam timeline for quite some time

[@yesman3316]

That would be interesting, colonial war that leads to conflict in mainland, like the French Indian war

[@bobwinters5572]

@@yesman3316 Or, you could just take the story of the American revolutionary war. Have 2 major Earth countries (France and Spain) side with the Martian colonial rebels against the Earth "mother country" and have those countries put in enough men and firepower to effectively take over leadership of the war and win the decisive campaign.

[@Felix-dv9wn]

Or maybe has mars terraformed and tell them that mars has prospered more than the earth and have more resources. It would justify a lot of point like mars having more troop and industrial capability. But in this game somehow makes martians living in some scattered buildings in the middle of mars desert and still manage to create hundreds of ship

[@DarthBigBen]

@@AdotLOM I mean, that’s basically the Earth Alliance vs ZAFT (the latter of which has allies in Africa and Oceania) in Gundam SEED.

[@Legiion513]

"Intergalactic war" Don't you mean interplanetary war?

[@MagnumLoadedTractor]

I mean there is a map that takes place near a black hole so maybe some intergalactic engagement?

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

ESPECIALLY THE PHYSICS!!!!! SILENCERS IN SPACE?!!!! SERIOUSLY?!!!!!

[@Yanuaxu]

Wait, what? Just the silencers, not you know the basic law; of for every action has a equal and opposite reaction You should be able to fly around by just shooting

[@Calvin_Coolage]

@@Yanuaxu The suits probably self correct for minor adjustments in velocity and direction.

[@Yanuaxu]

@@Calvin_Coolage you don't see any corrections for it I just checked

[@Calvin_Coolage]

@@Yanuaxu Which is why I said probably.

[@alexboehm3919]

It’s also possible that the weapons are outfitted with some internal correction mechanisms, as these are weapons that will be used in space combat

[@AlucardNoir]

They were probably going for something like the real life Napolean, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan or the fictional Reinhard von Lohengramm, but forgot to actually read history, or Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and actually see how those people got in power; let alone how they did it so young. As for the whole fleet at once thing, that's a bad SF trope that was started by SF imitating 18th century, and earlier, naval battles. It's easy to have all your ships assembled in one place when you don't have 100 ships and your enemy also doesn't have 100 ships either.

[@ArionRDAW]

Up for the mention of LoGH. As for the 18th century naval warfare in space, well, I find it more interesting than having individual ships jumping around with micro-warps.

[@alack3879]

Gundam uses the naval review well as its a show of force and serves as an excuse for the extensive refits the EF had to do on all of its ships after the war. Also you get a like for LOGH

[@incendium8348]

AlucardNoir I do agree. They were unable to create a realistic (or interesting) rise to power. Reinhard von Lohengramm was interesting to watch rise to power, because it was real, grounded, but still unique. Nothing here was real, grounded, or unique. Hence why it failed.

[@Marylandbrony]

@@ArionRDAW On the other hand. While i do like great fleet battles. Many ships jumping with micro jumps reminds me of submarine combat for some reason. Maybe make Earth great Britain during the battle of Altanic. Of course this can be solved by a gravity well generator.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

But how could they show Kotch's rise to power with the kind of story they wanted to tell?

[@avzed1789]

"-I'd like to think that humanity has learned from those examples and decisions made at the highest levels of government are a little more reasonable than those made during the 18th century." uuuuh! Are you sure about that!?

[@Nexus9118]

Honestly, ya. 18th century goverance was far more extremely ridiculous than modern day. Remember, we had two world wars. But since 1950s, we, begrudgingly, avoid such large scale conflicts like those. Many previous gov. were outright discriminating versus in modern day, any attempts are fought back hard, not just within the governments but also by the public. Also, we are far more likely to take diplomatic actions like economic sanctions compared to outright wars when faced with conflicts. Lastly, our governments are more likely to take broad viewpoint compared to the predecasors. I'm not stating that our governments are perfect, or even the best. But they are far better than our 18th century counterparts.

[@johnbower7452]

@@Nexus9118 The true reason for that is nukes; the only reason we have no major wars now is that they are all to shit scared for their own skins. So when 1 superpower hits a country like the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan the others keep their snoots out of it for fear of escalating it to a nuclear war.

[@thescottishanimeguy9946]

@@johnbower7452 nukes being the only reason is a bit of a lie. Modern war (like ww2 scale) would be far to crippling for any nation involved, especially countries like china which heavily trade with most countries and rely on exports.

[@leewilcox1500]

Wait, ONE DAY? That's EASILY the most egregious plot point in this whole mess.

[@connorgolden4]

Someone else stated this but it didn’t take place in one day. There were news reports between each mission. It likely took place over a much longer period of time.

[@murciadoxial8056]

@@connorgolden4 no more than a month, and you ain't winning a system wide war in a fucking month.

[@murciadoxial8056]

nah, the real most egregious plot point is that the entire defense system meant to defend earth from the SDF was located in geneva, those canons that down the earth's fleet in the parate?, that is the ENTIRE DEFENSE SYSTEM OF EARTH... that's- man...

[@aceofaces1506]

@@connorgolden4 realistically it couldn’t. I’m willing to bet this took place fully over the course of maybe 2-3 weeks, maybe a month at most. But a day is really stretching it

[@matro2]

@@aceofaces1506 The wiki says three days, from May 6-8.

[@granmastersword]

Works like Gundam's universal century timeline handled this concept better

[@beetledwarf]

@@syaondri Zeon did nothing wrong

[@teslashark]

SDF is literally Zeon but on a krokodil rush.

[@AdotLOM]

Pretty much. I explained this in another comment too.

[@granmastersword]

AdotLOM Where is it, I would like to give it a read

[@amlanmohanty1233]

@@granmastersword it's a show actually. A very good ( and sometimes bad ) one.

[@ComradeDragon1957]

Nothing but Earthling Propagada! *MARS AETERNUM*

[@iliketrains0pwned]

*Pashang fong, innalowda!!*

[@illusiveman1613]

TheCommunistDragon Death is no disgrace.

[@konac7191]

Mars aeternum!

[@entitygamma1792]

I see you fucking everywhere (Love the song lyrics you do btw, hope to hear them sung someday)

[@SonOfTerra92]

TheCommunistDragon who will feast on earths sky drink their rivers dry? MMC! Who will grind their mountains into fine Martian dust? MMC! Till the rains fall hard on Olympus Mons! Who are we?

[@Einargizz]

"Somewhere on Earth, a guy was recovering from a bad hangover and slept through an intergalactic war." To be fair, it was _merely_ an interplanetary war. Earth and Mars are in the same system, after all. Interplanetary = between planets. Interstellar = between stars. Intergalactic = between galaxies.

[@Alucard-gt1zf]

So then by your logic international wars should only last hours or minutes? Not how war length works

[@smithingbear7522]

@@Alucard-gt1zf r/woosh?

[@tomilayjr]

Alucard r/woosh

[@gorillaphant]

@@smithingbear7522 I don't think that's a joke.

[@Man_Aslume]

​@@Alucard-gt1zf When did they even say that

[@th3comb1ne13]

My question is, considering that they have “technological” artificial gravity how can they not modify their current “FTL” drives to actually be faster than light drives. Or even some sort of “energy shielding” for that matter. A civilization being able to manipulate gravity in any way they please would be waaaay past there solar system by now.

[@claasmachens3858]

Why does manipulating gravity mean overlight travel? In adition on what Basis do you asume the gravity Manipulation to be Unlimited?

[@kristiankepley5944]

Th3 Comb1ne I think it has to do with the current conflict raging in solar system and politics If you send a ship to far out it can be intercepted by enemy or if it gets In trouble they can stop you from helping Political in the way of politics makes everything slower

[@jeezed2950]

First off, no they wouldn't, second of FTL stands for Faster than Light. Besides they may have some ships scouting out the far reaches.

[@th3comb1ne13]

Kristian Kepley Yes they can. They can already travel from Titan to “near” the sun in 19 seconds. This is 264 times the speed of light. You can reach Proxima Centauri in a matter of days. There is little reason for them not to be past our home system.

[@th3comb1ne13]

Claas Machens Gravity is literally a form of space time distortion. Hence why it still fascinates physicists to this day. Manipulating space time to the degree you have directional gravity would allow you to create an Alcubierre drive. (They already have FTL travel even if they don’t use the alcubierre drive) By what stretch of semantics did I imply or say “unlimited” in my comment. I said spacetime manipulation amounting to directional gravity would effectively allow ships to have some sort of “energy shield”. This type of tech has massive potential for various types of application but yet it’s not used in such a way.

[@viorp5267]

7:49 Nah, I don't mind Larissa you sound fine~

[@Jordan-subj]

I agree with all your points, but the game didn't take place over the course of 24 hours. Geneva would still be burning by the time you return at the end of the game. There was time between missions. You can tell because after every mission there was a news broadcast on Earth about the mission. They wouldn't do a dozen major news updates in a day. They couldn't even corroborate the info that fast. Also I know we the player can run through a mission in 20 minutes, but the missions are implied to take longer than that in COD games. Remember how we conquer Normandy in 20 minutes of gameplay in every WW2 game.

[@iam4026]

The first and last mission take ppace before and after 7 May respectively, so technically it happened for 3 days

[@Frostyman452]

I am 40 Actually way longer than that, when seeing the devastation of Geneva, even if this is super into the future that kind of destruction would take a minimum of 3 months. Because when we see Geneva again it is completely fixed. Edit: Just replayed the game again because I wanted to double check on what I said, the guy above me was correct, what I described was a more realistic approach, what actually happened was most of the game taking course over the span of 2 days, for most of the game and I mean nearly all of the game, it is Saturday, May 7th. The only time a day passes is in the final missions of the game, this is incredibly dumb. So yeah it doesn’t make sense at all. Nearly forgot but Geneva is still fucked up hard, the only thing even remotely fixed is the fact that it isn’t on fire anymore.

[@Joshua_N-A]

Modern Warfare 3 did put dates on whenever you start the mission as oppose to the "day" that was used in the previous two.

[@carolhass8655]

It’s a super confusing situation. But it does seem to take place within 24 hours, if Admiral Raines is to be trusted when he says: “We’ve suffered great losses today; Captain Alder, Captain Ferran”

[@Felix-dv9wn]

@@Frostyman452 wait is it really totally fixed?? Cuz i saw a lot of ships debris tho and some building still got construction site and partially destroyed ( see the mission when we are chasing riah). Still doesnt makes sense tho honestly.

[@echoecho3155]

I think one of the biggest reasons for an interplanetary/interstellar colony forming a secessionist movement is geography. On Earth, geographic separation creates cultural and philosophical divides between the colony and the parent nation. Planets and systems would have minutes to hours in communication delays and potentially weeks to years of travel time. It would not take long for a world to develop its own identity independent of Earth, and that can easily breed resentment with the parent body that still rules them. A good example is the EU. Many of its member states disagree with its policy decisions, leading to movements wishing to pull away from it. Its council is far removed from most citizens, and thus makes decisions that are not in the interest of those citizens. Even the US Federal government suffers this problem, largely ignoring sparsely-populated regions like the Midwest for the more populous (and thus politically louder) coastal states. Now imagine how little of a fuck UN politicians would give for a few Mars colonies with 100,000 people each when they're listening to cities of tens of millions. Mars would get drowned out in the political process. That geographic separation would then help with any move at independence. Chances are the colonizer wouldn't heavily garrison a space colony due to treaties, agreements, and a general lack of concern for warfare in space (no point in an enemy seizing territory millions of miles away when they can just take the capital on Earth and gain control of all the colonies). So all you would need is small, armed uprising and it'd be easy to sever ties with Earth. Economic agreements could ensure the stability of the new state, as, if the UN is still international and colonies are run by Earth governments, other nations would want to stifle their economic competitors. Let's say an Indian colony on Mars decides its sick of not being heard by the Indian or UN governments and thus begins secession. Part of the movement is peaceful and economic, grounding all ships and preventing resources from going back to India. The other part is violent - a group of colonists storm the local garrison which quickly surrenders since they are overwhelmed and not paid enough for this (a few soldiers likely hold similar sentiments to the colonists). Back on Earth, India is furious, but China, Russia, the US, and EU all want a piece of that pie. They acknowledge the newly-minted Martian nation as its own state and begin forming trade agreements. India can't retaliate, as they'd look both imperialistic and uncooperative with the UN, and everyone else gets an economic boost. Hell, such an incident could even lead to nations peacefully severing colonies while still maintaining trade connections with their protectorates. As time goes on, a new Martian superstate could form and begin protecting its own interests, further severing ties with Earth as it no longer needs them. I should put this in a Word document for later...

[@michaelweston409]

Excellent point

[@justchilling704]

EchoEcho Then why hasn’t Alaska and Hawaii rebelled yet?

[@totaldramagamer5521]

@@justchilling704 Because we don't live under the 'tyranny of the masses' since we're a republic. Hawaii and Alaska may be far removed (relatively) but they are not drowned out when it comes to political decisions and their vote matters. So the large population disparity between Hawaii and say... New York, won't destroy them on an importance level. Also, state level government exist that are separate from federal government. States are already largely independent even though they all belong to one nation. For instance, the laws of Texas are far, far, far different than that of Florida or California. They don't 'rebel' because rebellion implies the need for liberty. The states are already very liberated from the federal, overarching government (even if they do have to ultimately abide by certain overarching rules like the constitution). But the most obvious reason is this. Alaska and Hawaii have nothing to gain and everything to lose by succeeding in this way. They're both isolated, they're both militantly weak on their own (military is federal), and their economy is primarily based on commerce with the other states. To jeopardize any of these three things for a rebellion that'll ultimately bring them very little... it just doesn't make sense and it won't happen unless truly drastic events are happening to said state. -- tbh, the comparison between the colonies of Britain and the states of America in and of itself is a bit of stretch. They aren't half a world apart. And even if we do count Alaska and Hawaii... it's not like they're 'that' far away (unlike... say, India and Great Britain).

[@justchilling704]

TotalDramaGamer Isn’t what you’re saying backing my point? Why wouldn’t the same value be placed on interstellar or better said interplanetary colonies?

[@totaldramagamer5521]

​@@justchilling704 Not inherently. In fact, history has shown it is far, far, far more likely that colonies are treated the exact opposite (as sources of cheap wealth, not sources of sustained population with equal treatment). I mean, just look at the US. We're literally the *result* of not getting our due attention and equaltiy (in fact, many of us didn't want to break away at first, them being the loyalists). So the question of 'why wouldn't we receive these things' is a very easy one. Greed. And when you combine a long distance relationship on top of that greed... you often result independence movements. A single country under a greedy ruler may last generation after generation as one single body (look at most of the world). However, very often when you have multiple places across the globe under that same greed, the distance is what allows these places to get the strength to revolt. Most of Europe can atest to this.

[@FigitTheDigit]

Well, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. I’m perfectly happy with the idea that this could happen because we are, today repeating mistakes made in history, we know where these mistakes will lead us and yet, we’re making them anyway....

[@murciadoxial8056]

The problem with this story is not that there is war in the future and humanity is still going at it even though they should know better by that point, the issue is that the scenario they present is completely nonsensical.

[@void2258]

My question: How weak are SDF ships, or how strong are Earth ships, that 2 vessels, operating without any support and executing gorilla raids on vulnerable targets only, could completely destroy the entire enemy fleet in a day? Guerilla campaigns take much much longer than direct conflict in general, depend on exhausting the enemy, and utilize captured supplies to offset lack of supply line. None of that makes plausible sense here.

[@norwegiantactician]

Another thing to add, is the side missions. In short, you kill all their flying aces and destroy their entire command, leaving only the SDF Admiral and sleeper agent you caught on Geneva alive.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

Also, how did they build and conceal the Olympus Mons? That would be like Mexico assembling a super carrier warship without us noticing.

[@GTD_Galatea]

The game implies that the UNSA is more technologically advanced than the SDF. This is why the SDF raided the black site on Europa: They wanted to steal the UNSA's latest energy weapons technology. Also, what really crippled the SDF fleet was the destruction of the shipyard on Mars, a mission carried out by a small team.

[@hellothere_1257]

Fleetyards are only relevant if your war lasts months or even years. If your entire war is over in a day anyway destroying a fleetyard is completely inconsequential except maybe as an intimidation method.

[@George-Hawthorne]

What amazes me is that SATO's entire fleet consists of 21 warships while the SDF has 60 Warships.

[@jakeownsbey9858]

Infinite Warfare had terrible worldbuilding and fantastic "world feel." The ships, guns, structures, armor, and tech for the most part all felt very grounded to me. Like actual hardware you might bump into on a military base, just more advanced. It's a shame the worldbuilding didn't hold to the same standard, but if you're looking for an "authentic-feeling" setting of humans waging solar warfare, IW seems pretty solid to me. (Aside from annoying things like magical warp drives, gravity generators, and SOUNDS IN SPACE but hey, that's forgivable.)

[@Avera9eWh1teShark6]

The developers actually had consulted directly with the US Navy for ship, aircraft, and equipment design which is why everything looks and feels realistic and grounded. They basically asked them "What would naval warfare look and be like 200 years from now?" and just let them run with it.

[@caav56]

>SOUNDS IN SPACE If you look at the boot-up log of your helmet, you can see, that sounds are generated by onboard computer - probably, for increased comfort and tactical awareness of the user.

[@hoi_its_ivan]

The developers acknowledged in an interview with GameInformer that they didn't want their long and drawn-out space encounters to be sound-less because it won't be as exciting

[@TheSupaCoopaGaming]

IW is like someone watched the expanse and took none of the nuance or grounded elements out of it

[@incognitoburrito6020]

I'm all for rock hard sci fi, but sound in space is one of those things I think just has to be accepted as a genre necessity, like warp drives and epic explosions and old fashioned dogfights. An action movie full of scenes where an somebody stares at a targeting computer for a while, presses a button, waits some more for a "HIT CONFIRMED" message, then continues on to their destination still twenty years of travel away simply won't sell.

[@watcherzero5256]

You seem to have missed a major element of the plot. The rebels didn't just build a fleet over night, its been 30 years since Mars won its independence in a bloody conflict, essentially fighting the colonial troops of Earth to a standstill however they lacked the ability to project power much beyond Mars and the outer planets moons and so Earth remained in control of most of the inner solar system and asteroid belt. A fascist government akin to the Nazi's/Zeon emerged from the independence struggle dedicating all the resources of the colony into arms production (They are said to spend 9x per capita on their military than the UN does and their fleet outnumbers the UN 3:1). The UN were aware and worrying about the resource disparity and concentrated on a smaller more technologically advanced fleet to maintain military parity. Their are parallels with the militaristic Martians portrayed in The Expanse but rather than their technological superiority the SDF in this universe concentrated on industrial superiority, controlling all the raw material production in space and going for quantity over quality of arms. As to your arguments over manpower 15 years military service doesn't mean just standing around with guns, military service involves far more from engineering (maintain all their ships and equipment) constructing fortifications, disaster relief, If your looking for how the Army can exist with such a large demand on the state then you can look to real world examples. For instance the Egyptian army controls between 45-60% of the countries GDP through owning thousands of businesses operated by soldiers, for example bakeries, infrastructure construction. Conscription is mandatory 3 years with a requirement to provide a further 9 years service if called up for a total of 12 years (i.e. The government is able to call on the services of all men between the age of 18-30).

[@Cooky_McGee]

This is one underrated-ass thesis, one i could get behind and smth that could explain a lot of things if your points are right

[@Felix-dv9wn]

But a lot of point still doesnt make sense bro, like how does the earth only have like 20 ships defending it. The entire planet, 20 ships.... And AATIS, 3 or more super guns the size of half a skyscraper manages to be the earth's iron shield, so they got those guns all around the globe or what? And why cant sdf just brute force in a single area, the earth got 2 ships left and sdf got a few dozens more + the biggest ship ever created with a super gun mounted on itself. if that super gun can fuck a super carrier on a single shot, then it can also fuck a big ass gun on a single shot as well. And dont let me say about how the earth probably only have no army whatsoever, just marines and navy scar team.... In the mission chasing riah, the player is the only one chasing and somehow dozens of fully armored non disguised sdf troop is still in the planetary capital....

[@Ad-ho7hc]

Still odd that frontier colonies strong of at best a few millions people could compete with the might of Earth itself, it's not particularly realistic that the UN let themselves be matched -- surely the SDF's industrial capacity couldn't have been that hard to replicate and they couldn't have been that wealthy

[@reaperhd1883]

​@@Ad-ho7hc weaker side sometimes wins in wars because of the the greater side being arrogant like how Japan beat the British in WW2 or how the USA did it's rise.

[@reaperhd1883]

​@@Felix-dv9wn This is my head cannon but I believe it was attacks on all of earths bases like how 9/11 was in multiple locations

[@theashman7836]

I actually liked the story. The SDF were one of the first enemy’s in games I did not feel bad for killing Especialy in the black sky mission. When they kill Civilians yet the story still made them compelling and had a focus on the main cast.

[@gaffgarion7049]

I mean that's kind of the problem the yare just overly cliche bad guy

[@Jin-cf1xp]

They shot civilians, Geneva convention is off (City too lol)

[@JamesTullos]

SetDef's ideology seems to be pretty standard fascism. A dictatorial government, aggressive militarism and imperialism, "racial" supremacy (quotes used here because Martian isn't really a race), and dehumanization of the enemy are all staples of fascism.

[@Tank50us]

James Tullos That it is. And as for the conscription, what I imagine is going on is that everyone under 18 is basically placed into rear echilon roles where they can work, and complete their schooling. They likely get some weapons training so they can defend themselves if needed, but until they turn 18, they're not given any additional combat training. I can also imagine that most of the hard labor jobs are done with robots, which unless they're L3-3T, aren't gonna demand equal rights, and can work in places humans can't for prolonged periods of time. I mean hell, by the time the war starts, they basically have just as many combat robots as they do combot troops, if not more, with the only limiting factor for how many can be used at once being the space aboard the ships. That being said, the SDF may be at a numerical disadvantage, but the attack on Geneva wasn't the only attack they made, and most of the damage was done with sleeper agents hacking the Planetary Defense Guns, and letting those do the dirty work, while the rest of the fleet engaged SATO ships spread throughout the system before they could answer the distress calls to return to Earth. By doing things this way, they take Earths massive population out of the equation. With only two ships left, SATO can't move troops and supplies very easily, and until other ships are repaired, or new ships are built, there's not much they can do. On the resources side of things, again, if Mars is using robots to mine, and process the raw materials into ships, weapons, and equipment, they can match Earth in terms of production numbers, that frees up a lot of manpower towards other tasks, and with the sheer number of combat robots they deploy (remember, Ethan basically 'recruited' an army of them himself), I'd say they'd give SATO a run for its money very easily. All in all, the logic here in this video isn't really wrong, but the length of the war itself is variable depending on the player. If they go after Targets of Opertunity, and barely touch the story missions, the war may last months, if they only do the story missions, it lasts just a few days. So realistically, I'd say the actual conflict would've taken place over a few months rather than a few days. Just my opinion.

[@sirmount2636]

Would also apply to Communism or what most people call Communism.

[@Terenin]

The whole POINT of communism is to dehumanize anyone with even a shred of wealth and justify the extermination anyone that resists the revolution. Mass-conscription is also a staple, as all have to do their part for the glory of the union... comrade.

[@echoecho3155]

You don't read much communist literature, do you? The system exists to redistribute wealth as evenly as possible, and to do away with the concept you have to, well, do away with the concept. And, as all wars against concepts and the thoughts of individuals go, they usually end with book burnings, public execution, and ethnic/ideological cleansing as you attempt to eradicate "subversive groups." And a communist state would definitely require mass conscription - most historical communist states did. It's a "service to the people" to defend the motherland, and individual agency is stripped for that of "the people." Just like fascism, it's a fucking nightmare. But yeah, SetDef is Saturday Morning Cartoon fascism. The kind that doesn't make sense and is really, really boring.

[@simonwinn8757]

Communism also breaks down the family unit, so that each person is isolated from each other and cannot give support, that means they are depended on the state.

[@apotheases]

Wouldn't it be an inter-system skirmish as opposed to an inter-galactic war?

[@Thetb93]

interplanetary war. inter system is i think between stars.

[@D.M.S.]

@@Thetb93 not necessarily. All planets have there own little system. For example: Mars with its little moons, is the Mars-system. But I would still agree with interplanetary. It would be just easier.

[@RoyalFusilier]

Interplanetary works, as would intrasystem. Intersystem would be a war with like, Alpha Centauri. Which would be way cooler-

[@FrostbiteDigital]

Intersteller War may work too. In Killzone you had The Extrasolar War

[@seanezeh2290]

The term "Extrasolar" refers to stars systems beyond ours and that bare the same connotation when you add the word "War" to it, i.e., a conflict that probably excludes Earth completely (or a conflict that takes place in, probably far-off, human colonial systems with the Sol system being free of the fighting).

[@SomeoneNamedTygget]

"Somewhere on Earth a guy was recovering from a bad hangover and slept through an intergalactic war" NO. That war wasn't even interstellar, it was entirely localized to the Sol system. How the hell could that war be described to be "intergalactic" or "between galaxies"? The war can only be described as INTERPLANETARY.

[@brianmo2965]

I think what most confused me in infinite warfare is that humanity has shown multiple times that they have developed ftl drives, yet they make no effort to use them to go to other star systems and colonize them. If say the sdf was in alpha centauri instead of mars, then it may make more sense

[@apollo1694]

Light speed is extremely slow in the context of the galaxy

[@murciadoxial8056]

I think it has something to do with fuel and hte limitations of the tech itself, iirc longer jumps damage the ship

[@generalkenobi9473]

@@apollo1694 The Centauri star system is four light years away and they went from saturn to mercury in just 15 seconds. So much faster than the speed of light. With that speed they can explore the whole interstellar neighborhood in just a month.

[@matro2]

They may have the speed but not the means to sustain that speed long enough to reach anywhere important. The ability to colonise anything when there and to return arre many more issues.

[@bloodygekkon5048]

@@generalkenobi9473 maybe FTL drives cannot afford a long lengh time jumps?

[@Eatmydbzballs]

I agree with the points you have shown here.

[@TemplinInstitute]

simple, to the point, agrees with me, this comment has it all.

[@thebronzedragon1]

*Whispers* if Templin is holding you hostage give us a signal

[@George-Hawthorne]

Same here except for one point, I can actually see the conscription of their male citizens working. Remember Ancient Sparta did something similar inducting all it's male citizens into the army while using helot slaves to do the other Labors. SDF shows that they have robots so it's most likely that they're using them along the same lines. Hell when they hijack the Olympus Mons, most of the 'crew' on the bridge consisted of robots. Another thing is by training its male citizens it allows the SDF to draft trained and disciplined troops rapidly to the front lines when war does break out. As opposed to having to send green recruits to boot camp and having to train them in a hurry. Surely those past the age of 27 leave the military to do whatever working jobs SDF has, allowing them to retire the robot until the next batch of trainees.

[@JimmyTurner]

Think the American revolutionary war and apply the points he makes here to that.

[@davidsun3511]

While some points Templin argued are agreeable, they do have some legitimate reasons. 天高皇帝远 - Heaven is high and the emperor is far away. While the idea of the unequal distribution of wealth and resources as well as unequal opportunities and freedom are overused in sci-fi genres, these problems do have their merits. The central authority will always have difficulties governing so many regions properly without making mistakes, being rife with corruption, and decisions not align with populist opinions. These can be a cause for secession. This can be more prevalent in space expansion if the colonies are too distant from the cradle world and are in some way are not dependant on it feeling they owe it nothing. Although I agree it is ridiculous to hate a planet like Earth and destroy it when it has nothing to the idealism of the factions

[@elpoturu]

All you have to do is play killzone or red faction to see how much more dull the world building in CODIW is

[@piercecarew9331]

Admiral Kotch made that display knowing the soldiers helmet was recording and SATO would likely see it

[@FrostyAUT]

This kind of stuff only works when there's some sort of technology or resource in play that gives the "underdog" faction a major advantage that offsets their lack of manpower. Logically that has to be the colonists, or they would be even more screwed.

[@arx3516]

You mean something like mobile suits? XD

[@FrostyAUT]

@@arx3516 Sure, why not?

[@BoisegangGaming]

In IW2, I'd like to see the SDF be funded by a military-industrial complex gone rampant. Would be interesting to see an enemy that was created to fund conflict.

[@mobiuscoreindustries]

Would sorta be an interesting concept: producing more weapons than Every one else? Technically as long as you can put things behind said weapons you stand somewhat of a chance.

[@kertaspaper94]

I'd like them to show Mars' breeding program. Maybe an entire facility filled with little kids. Then as Earth forces we get to blow them up

[@HNTRKLLR]

Spec Ops: The Line in space

[@kertaspaper94]

@@HNTRKLLR exactly

[@LillianMelody]

+Aaron Kuhman shouldn't that be Space ops:The line?

[@ricardogens9834]

It frustrates me how often you use terms like intergalactic when talking about a war in our solar system between Earth and Mars. I've noticed you doing this in a few other videos and considering you talk so often about correct terminology, seems a bit ironic y'know...

[@maxmcdonald7798]

yeah and how he says he is always right which the majority though i agree with him most of the time, it getting frustrating to hear him claim to be the voice of truth in all video endings.

[@aggelosSlipKnoTRKO]

Yeah, but the war is between Earth and Mars, therefore it's interplanetary.

[@ofAwxen]

But he's incapable of error...

[@ravenknight4876]

You should already have noticed that he sometimes has a crude grasp at best concerning what he is talking about while watching his "how to name your interstellar empire" Video. As a historian who took a view classes in politics, what he was saying about nomenclature really baffled me.

[@ricardogens9834]

@@ravenknight4876 I'm a Pol Sci major, I understand your frustration completely.

[@brodyestes2376]

To answer the first question. The whole premise for the colonies on mars and the outposts was to farm and gain access to the massive deposits of metals and other such materials to make the ships. we know that the earth in infinite warfare was resource depleted basically which is why they the went to space. We can also rationalize that the colonies would also be responsible for producing and making ships in their orbital hangars like what we see in the final mission. So when SetDef became independent they also took their shipyards with them and presumably the schematics for making battleships, mining ships, etc. So it was basically a 0 too 100 threat the producing ships suddenly became enemies and the UNSC was left only with earths orbital shipyards and other things nearby like the moon gateway port. We also know from the Pluto Scrapyard mission that the UNSC is only able to rebuild their fleet by using the massive scrap pile in orbit over pluto.

[@jaredhumpolick433]

The reason that SetDef forces were able to maintain their military was due to families being encouraged to have large number of children and making up the shortfall by filling the holes with combat capable robots this can be seen in the first earth mission by the sheer number of combat bots you run into I counted at least 175 and that was on the hard difficulty another place where this can be seen is on the Olympus Mons bridge after you kill the admiral and you hear Ethan say he has control of the entire robotic crew which is at least 3 companies

[@kevintran3435]

Mars was liberated by martian Karl Marx and Lenin. Workers of Mars unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.

[@thesenate3988]

Did you mean Karl Mars? Yes, you're right, I should kill myself now.

[@texiannationalist]

of course you won't actually lose your chains you will only get more chains.

[@DobroDed76]

coolpizza57 not more Just another

[@gabriel300010]

chains are good. nice armour, good against swords.

[@nowhereman6019]

@@thesenate3988 no, puns are the highest form of humor.

[@Darkfire7881]

While I agree with a lot of your points. I can't help but love Infinite warefare's story. I loved the campaign, except the part where it all takes place in 1 day. But it was a fun sci-fi adventure through the Solar system. Too little sci-fi focusses on our home system. I think IW is the closest thing we will get to an Expanse FPS

[@kylemaljevac5482]

Darkfire7881 While maybe the game is shaky in the world building department. I can’t deny that this was one of the best campaigns in the series, the campaign has amazing characters and a good narrative, that honestly made me cry at the end (which shocked me for a cod game). The campaign has issues in its world building and Kotch is wasted as a character, but overall I loved the campaign despite its flaws.

[@Darkfire7881]

@@kylemaljevac5482 I cried at the end too! It is arguably the best CoD story. And the world building needed work, but I loved the locations. Which is why I'm sad there probably wont be a second. Imagine seeing more places like Ceres or more of Jupiters moons or cities on Mars

[@kylemaljevac5482]

Darkfire7881 Definitely, I would love to see a sequel to this game as it has potential. But sadly it’s never going to happen

[@self-satisfiedsmirk5544]

@@uziman477 Thanks. But, no thanks. I have no interest in your Deus Ex laden story about giant ninja-bots spamming their epilepsy-inducing barrages of missiles or "Lazers" or their melodramatic, emotionally unstable pilot(s) with their Oedipus Complexes. P.S. I know that that's not Gundam... Completely. I also know that the whole "Oedipus" thing is more from Evangelion. But... However, I do contest the legitimacy of your claim that Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare is a knock-off of Gundam, especially when The Templin Institute stated in this video that the general plotline of hostilities arising between Earth and any of its hypothetical extraterrestrial colonies in the relatively near future is an incredibly common trope used in all of Sci-fi.

[@Darkfire7881]

@@self-satisfiedsmirk5544 there may be some legitimacy to his claim. The SDF do use robots with shields. Therefore CoD IW is Gundam confirmed

[@vehx9316]

" I would like to believe that humanity had learned from those lessons........." That is either extremely optimistic or extremely naive. "rarely ends in wars of succession": 1776 anyone ?

[@obiwaankenobi4460]

The American Revolutionary War had a reason for it. The UNSA-SDF War decided in IW, as far as we know, has 0 motivation behind it.

[@cjeam9199]

That’s still pretty rare.

[@vehx9316]

@@cjeam9199 let's also throw in the Bolivian wars plus the various independence struggles of Africa and Asia, 2 whole continents mind you into the mix as well shall we? Mozambique, Congo, the Irish struggle...... I can go on. Fact is in terms of long distance colonization and division of power we humans are pretty ignorant of our past.

[@vehx9316]

@@obiwaankenobi4460 True but that is the lack of writing by the Devs themselves, if Templin gets to speculate on the various political and economical situations in IW then it did be not to far a stretch to imagine some form of political dissatisfaction that will lead to the antagonist advocating for succession from the UN.

[@cjeam9199]

Eng Hwai Xi Wars that successfully end in succession are still pretty rare, small nationalist movements or terrorism that leads to granting of independence are far more common.

[@boredom6373]

“I have a virus, it hurts to talk.” Did you eat a bat?

[@Jedi_Spartan_38]

5:19 basically the cleche way to show/remind people that the bad guys are evil

[@whilryke]

It's called "kicking the dog", it comes from a quote of Hitchcock, if i remember correctly.

[@maxmcdonald7798]

indeed, i always hate it when the villain try's to appear threatening even when the audience knows the person is the antagonist and that it makes the villain look more idiotic than evil or threatening.

[@jessegerardryan]

Is the villian kit Harrington

[@maxmcdonald7798]

+Papa Kiff what?

[@ptonpc]

The actor Kit Harrington (John Snow of GoT) did the face and voice of the villian.

[@charleslathrop9743]

Yeah, there is absolutely no reason to think that a united Earth government would treat it's colonies better than colonies of the 18th century were treated. They might, but assuming that they would is pure speculation. The issue of the power disparity is easily solved. People don't often think about it but the first American colony, Jamestown, was founded in 1607 that is 169 years from American Independence. Given modern technology and medicine the population of Mars could increase substantially more (relatively speaking) in less than half the time. To make it believable all that's needed is a few more decades, and a little terra-forming. Ease of travel is a lot more important in that kind of war than raw manpower or resources. Yes China would crush Belgium... if they shared a border, but in practical terms to invade Belgium would completely overtax and overwhelm China's military and naval capabilities. They simply do not have the infrastructure, administrative sophistication, experience, or hardware for such an operation. Now change the setting to Earth vs. Mars. Unless Earth has been preparing for war in space for some time their ability to respond in any meaningful way will be extremely limited. Building ships is expensive and time consuming, and that's just wet navy ships. Building void navy ships is an even more involved process requiring a considerable amount of resources and time. A single capital ship for space could potentially take several years to build. A serious number of troop transports could be just as problematic. Alternatively, if we say that Earth is capable of manufacturing ships more quickly then that would indicate that the capabilities of Mars would likewise be much greater because greater technology would indicate more time has passed, and in relative terms as technology increases and time passes the gap between the two would close rather quickly. At any given point in the theoretical timeline Mars would stand a reasonable chance of fending off any incursions from Earth. It's the first space war and extra-planetary invasion of a hostile world. No one on Earth should be prepared for it, have any experience about what to do or how to do it, or have an serious prayer in hell of actually pulling it off if Mars is even halfway ready for it, population not withstanding. And, the more time that it takes to prepare the invasion the more time that Mars has to ready their defenses. Unless Earth is fully prepared in advance for such a conflict there's no way they can win, and they would have to have begun preparing decades ago. The situation is even worse for the UN than that, because unless they have obliterated every national government they are still reliant for funds, manpower, and resources upon member states. Given this fact it is statistically unlikely that they would be able to create a cohesive united response within a reasonable time frame as the member states bicker about who should contribute, how much they should contribute, whether it's even worth bothering to recapture Mars, and about how much individual member states would actually benefit from the UN retaking Mars. I simply don't see most UN members contributing anything if there is not some kind of clear benefit to their nation specifically in the long run. The UN simply does not have the authority to strong arm anyone into contributing to such an expedition if they don't want to, and even if the UN could get people to contribute there are serious doubts about whether those contributions would be meaningful or sufficient.

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

This is a very well put logical counter argument and needs more likes.

[@robertshort9487]

Not to mention the fact that manufacturing on mars or in the belt would be easier than on earth.

[@IiiERT]

Sure Mars can grow, but being an inhospitable world, they will never be able to support the kind of population Earth can. Expanding Martian settlements is more expensive than on Earth. China can't invade Belgium because the sea voyage takes too long, but in Infinite Warfare spaceships can travel between planets in seconds. So that argument is meaningless. (Belgium vs. China isn't an appropriate comparison anyway, Britain vs. Antarctica is more accurate.) Also it's clearly stated in the game that this is not the first Earth-Mars war, but at least the second, and judging from the existence of SATO, with the AATIS guns and a big space fleet, Earth seems to have prepared for war for quite some time. Anyhoo, I didn't like the story in IW. Mars as a military superpower doesn't sound credible to me, and the name Settlement Defence Front seems to imply a smaller militant/political organization designed to defend far flung settlements from a oppressive foreign authority, like Earth. But that has also been done before. They should have added more political complexity to the story, maybe have an entirely new series, like in Modern Warfare, but more interesting and in space.

[@robertshort9487]

@@IiiERT there is no reason mars couldn't sustain population nearly as big as the earth. the lower gravity means it is far cheaper to build on mars than on the earth. We can see that the atmosphere on mars is high in oxygen and is at least as substantial as the earths, so there is 0 reason it would be harder to expand on mars.

[@IiiERT]

@@robertshort9487 "We can see that the atmosphere on mars is high in oxygen.." What, do you mean in the game? Because in real life, the Martian atmosphere is almost entirely made of carbon dioxide, and it's only 1/100 as dense as the Earth's. Also Mars doesn't have a magnetic field, so nothing protects it from cosmic radiation, which would be harmful for any life.

[@lv83bloodknight]

Kinda hard to take that admiral seriously as a villain when he looks like Jon Snow with a scar. Nothing against Kit Harrington, but he just doesn't look very intimidating.

[@unamed1142]

Great actor, nowhere near physically suited lmao. Templin mentioned him being too young to be a general too

[@masonspaulding9660]

For me personally, I think the reason the Settlement Defense Front was able to obtain so much support for the Secession Wars was because they probably used more moderate propaganda. During the Great Patriotic War, the Soviets used Russian propaganda instead of communist ideals to inspire the population to join the military. I’d say it’s possible Setdef used a similar tactic

[@chomper720]

How about the Principality of Zeon? XD

[@AdotLOM]

Yeah! Zeon as a subject for a video is a long time ago coming tbh

[@granmastersword]

AdotLOM I want it SIEEEEEG ZEON!

[@CtisGaming]

Zeon's much better. It has whole planets on its side as well as other space colonies. On top of that Earth made those colonies in the first place to make up for their loss of resources.

[@teslashark]

Nena, don't look back if Char calls out to you

[@Robocopnik]

@@CtisGaming What the fuck are you talking about? "whole planets"? Where did you get THAT idea?

[@pyrosauria7444]

Honestly did you really expect a call of duty game set in the future to even be good? Cause this was par for the course in trying to create a call of duty story. Also Killzone did this concept better!

[@MyCLAUDIO123456]

i agree that the story lack of backstory and logic,but mehh the cinematics are cool

[@Xhawk777]

Pyroskies killzone did a good job

[@GhostSlay3r]

Maybe the story isn't realistic, but it's fun as hell! :) The campaign is amazing, so are the MP and Zombies :)

[@argus2389]

Titanfall also did this story better

[@argus2389]

Actually there's a few more similarities between infinite warfare and titanfall 2: grunt rising in rank because of one event, robot ally, sacrifices. And that's not including the game play similarities

[@Destroyer6263]

4:30 I would disagree. Conscripts could be assigned public works duty, employment in state run industries or part time labor to private enterprises between schooling and training. This is a practice that has existed in so called “scientifically managed” communist countries so it is far from implausible or self defeating (at least to the degree present here).

[@reaperhd1883]

The is probably truth to your idea because SEFDEF uses a lot of robots trooper more than SATO from what we see

[@rogue_asami4522]

“I’d like to think that humanity has learned from those examples and decisions made at the highest levels of government are a little more reasonable then those made in the 18th century.” You clearly have not been paying attention to all the stuff that’s been happening in the world. We still do this shit in the world now. It’s just more sophisticated then it used to be and is more obscured.

[@m136dalie]

Exactly, people have learnt. In the past colonial companies would commit brutal violations of human rights, and after enough time of exploitation the natives eventually kicked out the colonists. Nowadays the same companies are still in those countries, still violating human rights. But those with power in the west have convinced us that the age of colonialism is over and there's nothing wrong with 3rd world exploitation.

[@carlsacel7222]

hey asami, how are you and korra?

[@_Muzolf]

@@m136dalie "Exactly, people have learnt. In the past colonial companies would commit brutal violations of human rights, and after enough time of exploitation the natives eventually kicked out the colonists. " That pretty much barely ever happened. The romantic notion of primitive natives rising up and throwing off the shackles of colonialism is a myth. 9 out of 10 times when there was a successful revolt and "kicking out" somewhere, it was interference by the other great powers. Old style colonialism died because it was part of the outdated economic system of mercantilism, which was about to be replaced by one that favored open trade, not because of any uprisings or inability to put them down. And wherever the place was important enough to hold on to, the colony very much remained under the boot of its conquerors, just ask the Hawaians, the people of the Chegos islands, or heck, the actual native americans how much the revolution creating the US helped them. (Hint, it did the opposite.)

[@m136dalie]

@@_Muzolf Ah yes because Hawaii is a better example of colonialism than Latin America, Africa or India. The colonial powers were all very willing to let go of those colonies as we know.

[@_Muzolf]

@@m136dalie Yeah, lets ignore the fact that in both americas, it was not the natives, but the supposedly "driven out" colonists who did the successful rebellion. Or that in both Africa and India, the colonial powers were not beaten at all, but pulled out on their own. Yeah, totally in line with the narrative of the natives rising up and kicking out colonists.

[@TornadoADV]

You missed the primary point of Earth as depicted in the game is completely bereft of any natural resources, she's running completely on inertia, hence when the SDF basically tore away all her colonies it was only a matter of time until her economy and civilization imploded. As far as the game goes, it's a game in service of giving the player an enjoyable experience and that means it will typically take a dump on the lore it spent so much time and effort establishing. (You know, like CoD does.)

[@TheHuntsmanC130]

I think your forgetting the Modern Warfare series, granted Russia invading the states in mw3 doesn't make any sense, but it had a great story line and great characters.

[@gaspardduclos5203]

I'm tired of seeing the trope of "ressources-depleted" Earth. Earth has more ressources than all Mars and the asteroid belt COMBINED ! You just need to mine below the crust. We can do it (check out SFIA's video 'Mining the Earth core') and certainly better with future tech like this setting's one. And Luna has a lot of ressources for itself.

[@murciadoxial8056]

@@gaspardduclos5203 Oh yeah!, let's mine the thing that gives the earth its magnetosphere and sit back to get a tan from those unimpeded solar winds!, great idea!

[@gaspardduclos5203]

@@murciadoxial8056 If you have the technology to mine Earth's crust, you have the technology to create orbital magnets powerful enought to serve as an artificial magnetosphere.

[@murciadoxial8056]

@@gaspardduclos5203 so... The earth runs out of resources so we are forced to fuck up our planet beyond repair by hollowing it out, but we are gonna have the proper materias to create an artificial magnetosphere?

[@JohnnyElRed]

Well, you said in their video that in the colonies the military and navy had a great power and influence. So a military coup d'etat to take control of the basic resources and stations of the solar system wouldn't be that far fetched. Another thing is if they would be able to keep them. Also, Kotch would work better as a villain and admiral if he was shown as a Mozart of military strategy. A guy incredibly talented and hard working that even by young age had his instructors in the military academy amazed. One that with little resources and guerrilla tactics, was able to fight the government of Earth to a standstill. Then, after a tense peace, that he was capable of constructing a working and poweful navy taking great advantage of the extensive mineral and energetic resources of the planets and colonies under they control. Like a space Doctor Doom.

[@jonesthemoblin1400]

"I'd like to think the decisions made by government are a little more reasonable than those made in the 18th century." Man, you have WAY more faith in our species than I do. 😂

[@reaperhd1883]

Same 😂

[@JcBravo8]

Templin's criticism of the SDF is hilarious in hindsight given Russia's current invasion attempt.

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

Just watching this video and have the same thought. A unified military with corruption or “warring “ factions could lose to a plucky group. With less resources you have to get creative like using cheap drones to drop bombs on multi-million dollar tanks. Also when united with a common goal amazing things can happen especially if your enemy underestimates you thinking overwhelming force can do it especially if they are trying to keep the populace happy ie Afghanistan.

[@leaf0nthewind625]

I agree with you that the world of infinite warfare is definitely unrealistic and unbelievable but, I strongly disagree with why. 1. The numbers, there are plenty of cases of numerically superior force not just being defeated but getting absolutely destroyed by smaller forces. 2. Industry, you act like mars will always be dependent on earth and never able to complete with it economically or industrially. The problem here is your assumption that whoever is colonizing mars is dumb enough to keep mars dependent on earth even after decades of colonization. Yeah it would make the colony more dependent on earth but it wouldn’t be very profitable for earth to constantly sink millions in resources into keeping mars running just on the off chance that they might rebel. And finally 3. Earth not learning from history and making the same mistakes the British Empire made with America is totally plausible given humanity has a terrible habit of simply not learning from history. And there are a lot of examples of humans not learning their lesson the first only to repeat the same mistakes again.

[@Centurian128]

Totally agree with point 2. Especially considering the added practicality of moving the manufacturing base closer to the point where resources are collected. It's more cost effective (especially in terms of fuel for interplanetary travel) to move 10 tons of finished product than to move the 20 tons of raw material that is needed to make that product.

[@Solaxe]

Even after decades Mars wouldn't have even 1% of Earth's man power or economy. And humanity learns from mistakes, look at the intervention in the Korean War

[@SadenIsWatchin]

@@Solaxe That was a pretty big mistake buddy.

[@SadenIsWatchin]

@@SamN234 And then only recently the war in the middle east. Humanity doesn't learn from it's mistakes. Hell, you study a bit of history and you notice that so much of it follows this cycle. It's kinda funny.

[@Srksius2802]

Since you did a video where you debate mechs vs. regular ground vehicles would you mind making a video debating solid projectile weapons vs. energy weapons (laser, plasma etc.)

[@SleepyFailer]

this need more like !

[@Northraider123]

I'd say to answer that debate you need to know what it's up against. like do people have energy shields or is it all advanced armors? as for me i'd go for a mix laser for armor and projectile for shields (assuming that's how they match up)

[@DecidedlyNinja]

This is a topic that frustrates me in science fiction, so here I go: --Projectile weapons do the most damage for a given amount of energy, because it generally takes less energy to move material aside than to melt or vaporize it, and projectiles are fairly stealthy. However, it's possible to intercept them before impact and even the fastest coilgun shots will be slow for the distances involved in space combat, making them short-range weapons unless equipped with a guidance system. --Lasers are notable for extreme range. It's limited by diffraction, not the speed of light, but a laser that is effective shooting from Earth orbit to Lunar orbit is plausible. They generate a godawful amount of waste heat for not that much damage, being inefficient in both generating the beam and converting its energy into damage, though this is compensated for by having the accuracy to focus on one spot. As infantry weapons, they're not very useful, since the range is unnecessary and the beam is heavily disrupted by foul weather or smoke. They do have the advantage of being potentially completely invisible and silent, though, which could make for a handy special forces weapon. --Plasma weapons, in the traditional sci-fi sense, are just useless and I hate seeing them. Assuming you can convince the bolts to stay intact long enough to hit, which is hard in space and basically impossible in atmosphere, the plasma will just spread out on impact without imparting much of its thermal energy to the target, making plasma cannons even less damaging than lasers with none of the advantages. --A relativistic plasma beam, on the other hand, has the interesting effect of creating a burst of x-rays on impact, which can cause radiation damage to computers and much worse radiation damage to people. If you need to arm your bad guys with a truly horrifying weapon, it'll do. --Finally, a note on the basic types of armor: Metallic armor is strong against kinetics, but easy to melt. Ceramic armor is, for a given mass, stronger against the first kinetic hit but often fractures, becoming weak against subsequent hits. The ceramics used in modern body armor are also extremely difficult to melt. Some other materials, like graphite, are a bit more heat-resistant but mechanically weak. So you can choose between kinetic and thermal protection, but you don't have to.

[@granmastersword]

DecidedlyNinja What about the interpretation of plasma weaponry in modern sci-fi works?

[@DecidedlyNinja]

@TechnoKnight When I said "traditional sci-fi sense," I meant almost all sci-fi that features them: Halo, XCOM, Warhammer 40K, Stellaris, etc. Not Fallout, because a real plasma weapon will never turn someone into green goo. Things that are just called "energy weapons" usually most closely resemble plasma weapons, as well.

[@MrRobotman]

"The greatest surprise attack in the history of the world." Yeah, I really, really, doubt that would happen.

[@safirouhi1651]

“Mom can we stop and get expanse” Mom: “we have expanse at home” Expanse at home:

[@Obsydian2k7]

🥴🥴🥴😭😭🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

[@gorillaphant]

Oh colon mark comment,haha so funni.

[@maru4252]

​@@gorillaphant Tbh,I hate these comments too.

[@majestictwelve7004]

It just works

[@Chicopajiso]

*It does not.*

[@RoyalFusilier]

The SDF is just like the Purge. It Works(tm).

[@brother_bear_one7340]

Mobile Suit Gundam also has such a similar theme, that is, burgeoning colonies having had enough of Earth's heavy-handed influence and rose up.

[@bloodygekkon5048]

SDF was screwed since the first hours of their operation. Their mission was a complete destroying the entire UN fleet with the single strike but 2 super advanced (for SDF) UN ships survived.

[@MidnightSt]

I think the official CoD franchise's answer to all your valid concerns and criticisms is: "Pew pew! Boom! Shut up, nerd! Pow, pow! Wooohooo!"

[@maru4252]

XD

[@NothingtoseeHere.Movealong]

Well, if you do make historical comparisons, the American Revolution was also ridiculous, with American resistance to an increase in taxation, which was still only a fraction of what the English paid, being pretty extreme, and the timelag between policy decisions escalating the issues

[@dy031101]

The story of Infinite Warfare works more by the sheer certainty it commits to its themes with than everything else.

[@pendragon0905]

SetDef was supported by the Hellspawn while SATO had the Doomslayer in its ranks. That's how there was an interplanetary war that lasted a day. 👌😈🛸

[@StarTrekGeek47]

"I'd like to think that humanity has learned, and that decisions made at the highest levels of government are a little more reasonable now." Ahhh yes ... this was posted pre 2020. How naïve we were.

[@markedwards2954]

I feel like the concept of the Front is a very interesting one, but I feel it could have been presented in a far more realistic fashion. Same goes with many things in the game.

[@alexernst9448]

"...and in this regard, the Front has essentially shot itself in the stomach." Not foot, stomach.

[@elonwhatever]

A point in the setting's defense: Not all military service is serving under arms. It may well be that the SDF military also has large portions of its men dedicated to economic endeavours such as mining, refining and production.

[@Emanon...]

Belgium aka The speedbump on the way to France

[@jimmyseaver3647]

The SDF is dead. Long live the MCR.

[@seanezeh2290]

The MCR is also dead following the activation of the ring network. Read the books people!

[@chadkingoffuckmountain970]

My Chemical Romance?

[@malvoliomaximillian2001]

My Chemical Romance is dead boi,they broke up a few years ago

[@dtpiers6136]

@@seanezeh2290 Not cool dude. I've read the books but others may not have, put a lid on it.

[@falseprophet1415]

Martian Congressional Republic. You know, to make itself stand out amongst other Sci-fi factions in media.....

[@PyroMancer2k]

Having not played the game at the start I was thinking it could be like the US Colonies where the supply lines were so far from the front they rebels could engage in hit and run tactics. But then hearing that ships can instantly hop around the solar system in Infinite Warfare then yeah the whole thing becomes non-sense. Distance and long travel/communication times is one of the things that really helped rebellions get off the ground. As by the time word got back to the founding country and an attack force could be assembled the rebels would have had some time to dig in. For example if it still took 6 months or more between Mars and Earth it would be easy to see how a group of rebels could take over and build up a defense force. Going to attack Earth is just stupid but declaring Independence and fortifying makes sense. Also why does Earth have a massive space fleet? If the Earth is truly united then what threat is there? Aside from some basic defenses against pirates or rogue asteroids/debris there would be no need for massive fleets of warships. I could see Earth having a bunch of ships that would amount to a Space Coast Guard but not large warships. Overall I think the general premise of a planetary colony breaking is believable but it has to be done right. For example the series The Expanse takes place after Mars Colony has already broken away but in that universe Mars is setup as being on the Defensive with a large focus on better tech to account for smaller numbers and Nuclear deterrent in the form of several large space platforms with missiles aimed at Earth in the event of an attack. The people of Mars do Hate Earth and some are itching for war, but the general sentiment among the average Martian seems to be Mars is theirs and Earth better stay away.

[@johnwest5957]

Questioning why the leader of SDF did such a display to a captured marine is ignorant... his aware the helmet cam is recording and SATO brass will see it, which they literally are in the next scene.. And the threat of any rouge state, especially in colonies that grow in size, would be a real one. This story fits together if you pay attention to it instead of trying to fit to your own view.

[@theinquisitor8112]

My biggest question for these scenarios is always "why, oh why do you want to rebel against the home world of your species for no good reason?" When it comes to something like Halo, it's a vastly different scenario. The colonies that rebelled in Halo against the UNSC were rarely fully against them, and had often existed for centuries or were launched from prior existing colonies that existed for a few generations. They're generally at least capable of be self-sustaining, seeing as they have their own food, water, and other material sources in relatively close proximity. Oh, and the rebels very rarely came in the form of entire planets. They were more like ISIS in space.

[@jackscotchland8947]

I still loved the campaign tho. Fantastic gameplay and one of the coolest worlds I’ve actually fought in in videogames

[@eitkoml]

I think that the SDF had a lot more resources than you gave them credit for. It was Earth that lacked resources, especially natural resources while the SDF had almost the entire solar system at their disposal. The lack of population also shouldn't be such a big deal with large amounts of automation being possible. The robotics were so advanced in that depiction of the future, one clear example being the robot that joined the squad on Infinite Warfare. I would avoid using people when I could use robotics that advanced, especially in environments as dangerous as space with vacuum, radiation, extreme temperatures, etc. If Earth could build something that advanced then the SDF should be able to make their own slightly less advanced versions at the very least. I suspect that they would make better use of robotics, having so much incentive to do so. Their large scale, large profit projects for gathering and refining natural resources should have also drawn in a lot of the best technical minds that humanity had to offer, just like the mining and energy(especially oil and natural gas) do today.

[@MyCLAUDIO123456]

thank you i was waiting for this,yes they forgot to mention the machine power for industrial economic,you dont need people on the factorys if robots can do it for free,thats how you can use your man power as meat grind,it makes sense on an mine colonie where the most dangerous or boring work are made by robots

[@anthonypjo]

An army of robot would require quite a lot of energy and maintenance and be inferiors to humans probably. I doubt SDF has released their robots blueprints. And anyways if they didn`t explain it properly in the campaign then there is no correct explanation, if anything you could say they have a magical power source.

[@eitkoml]

Humans require more energy due to the need to support them by providing food, housing, sanitation, etc. along with time to sleep and time for recreation. Either way nuclear fusion or fission could provide the power necessary. Fission would be far more viable in space because there is no need to worry about polluting anything with nuclear waste and space is already highly radioactive with solar and cosmic radiation.

[@GreyEnfield_CRYSTAL]

AGREED!! TOTALLY AGREED! Thought, I like the ship style and the way it warps But so much cliche and no explanation or reason behind the story it just goes with the flow. As if they don't care. As if they font need to care, the story doesn't have the necessary depth causing it well not go so well Its a late comment, but just tag along!

[@cyrolocker1229]

Here’s my question, How do they get from Mars to earth, Or is it like The American revolution but its in space rather than being divided by the Pacific Ocean

[@SultanOfAwesomeness]

Dusters are superior anyways.

[@falseprophet1415]

Be careful of trigger-happy Earthers and Belters when you're out there.....

[@seanezeh2290]

Said Dusters left their hellish homeworld literally hours after the gates were activated. For a nation that has developed a borderline radical exceptionalist culture you'd've expected that they'd be more loyal, I guess they're not once they're given the chance to live on a paradise that doesn't require you to use a space suit to breath. I'm sorry, had to, muh revenge and stuff.

[@Scortch-lo3xy]

world of infinite warfare doesn't work? well obviously

[@DinosaurEmperor84]

I think this whole idea of more people = more power is going to fall flat in a future setting. Advancements in automation are not going to slow down anytime soon, the advent of analytic and decision making AI is only going to accelerate automation. Odds are very good that future superpowers are those with access to most resources instead of people.

[@articcenturion8387]

Thanks for making the subtitles in your videos. I really appreciate it.

[@Tetsujinhanmaa]

I was so happy I didn't pay full price for this game. I would have demanded a refund. Some many things were wrong with this game. The point were I stopped caring was when they captured the SetDef Super Capital ship. At this point I'm thinking: Okay, you have a tactical and strategic advantage. Now you can dictate the rest of the war. Don't do anything high risk now. Game: We gonna suicide this joint. Me: What. The. Actual. Fuck!? Aren't you some highly trained spec ops golden boy? Shouldn't you know more than this arm chair commando? Game hero then proceeds to lose Earth's remaining chips like a dumbass.

[@jadeevetz9426]

6:52 You say he could have slept through an intergalactic war. In this verse only the solar system is colonized. Intergalagic would mean the war was taking place between two or more galaxies. Interplanetary war is what you're looking for. Other than that great vid and very accurate.

[@hansofaxalia]

Just imagine the dude who has trained since seventh grade, taught to fight in space, be given 15 years worth of food and salary: Just for his CO to shoot him so he can look cool to a random guy

[@AdotLOM]

This is why I like the UC timeline from Mobile Suit Gundam. Earths colonies have the main purpose of housing the majority of the Earths population to let the Earth recover from over-extension. Pretty standard, yes, but this immediately creates the case that the colonies who rebel do so, not necessarily for resources sake (because lets be honest, resources aren't really an issue in space because, you know, space is PRETTY FRIGGIN BIG and all), but for administrative reasons. The colonies weren't just settled, but built FROM SCRATCH. The Origin novel and OVA actually detail how the first colonies weren't starved for lack of resources, rather they had enormous infrastructure issues to do with colony safety, construction etc - the reason why other colonies DO NOT rebel is because they have much better living conditions due to being newer and more advanced colonies. Remember, in this universe the entire colony must be created in its entirety as other terrestrial environments (other than the moon) haven't been settled yet. That's the reason why newer colonies are often subject to attacks by Zeon forces (most notably that of the original protagonist). It is also as much a conflict of ideology. There is a reason why the One Year War is portrayed as being equivalent to WWII as opposed to some cliche empire vs rebellion deal, because it was very much politically motivated as it was material. Zeon is a neo-fascistic autocracy, whereas the Earth Federation is a bloated beaurocratic democracy, and much of the conflict results from this polarising worldview. Whereas there have been centuries worth of examples of how oppressing people is generally a bad thing, there has only really been one grand conflict between liberalism and fascism (*ahem*). Oh and the war takes a whole year to resolve, over a much smaller territory than this silly conflict is taking place over. That raises believability massively, and that's not to mention thatbthis war sets the stage for numerous armed conflicts, with many ramifications for future generations to come.

[@DarkArtistKaiser]

"But thats just my opinion, whats yours?" No no, your right in every way. Just about everything of SetDef is completely nonsensical and cartoony villian. This is the problem with alot of games like this, in that they boil war down to good vs evil, black vs white. Its unrealistic(For games spouting about realism), and if it was set in the modern era, I would accuse the devs/publishers of jingoism.

[@fionathegayesttiefling9867]

Given the whole history of imperialism, it really isn't that weird to me that Earth would exploit Mars. The weird thing to me is given that fact, Earth is somehow the good guys in this conflict, due to making the other side, the side *fighting against exploitation* cartoonishly evil.

[@kristiankepley5944]

Fiona the Gayest Tiefling I think it mainly has to do with how it’s presented. It’s like the Helghast from killzone. If you look closer it’s you who’s fighting for the baddies. But IW kinda screwed that up by not completely fleshing out every decision it shows us

[@simplymadness8849]

The colony on Mars was founded by Earthlings for the sole purpose of providing resources for Earth. It’s the colonists who got greedy and decided that they were just going to take all of the infrastructure and resources that Earth made possible to utilize in the first place, for themselves and let Earth starve.

[@L.Mandrake]

Americans have a thing for crushing the oppressed and depicting them as villains

[@reaperhd1883]

​@@simplymadness8849the line of thinking means that future generations of Martians should slave away for earth to continue existing which leads to the interplanetary war anyway

[@thenotsodemocraticrepublic7731]

I feel like a lot of the issues with the world building regarding Mars being unrealistically OP could have been solved if they had you play as a Martian fighting against Earth. That way your side being the scrappy underdogs fighting against an enemy with a superior military would actually make sense.

[@Quecojo]

Totally agree. Finally played it this year and was flabbergasted when i found out the entire story and all the battles take place in ONE day. Just crazy.

[@raynefyrestarfall6979]

Wonderful!!! I would love to see a video on the Principality of Zeon

[@Reactionary_Harkonnen]

2:50 Humanity doesn't change that way. It doesn't matter what year it is the fact is greed over takes things so yeah they're going to oppose things on Mars. I don't know whatever ideas you have you probably got it from Star Trek and that's a terrible Outlook because it's unrealistic. Things like Blade Runner or especially Dune are much more realistic.

[@frankg2790]

I agree.

[@dareka9425]

My pet peeve with sci-fi is how fast and easy for Earth to rise up from utter destruction and become a dominant player in the galactic community. In the TV series Babylon 5, just a decade or so after facing extinction, Earth became a beacon of hope and unity for the whole galaxy. In Mass Effect, just decades after facing extinction, Earth some how was able to catch up with the older races, became one of the most powerful military force in the galaxy and able to influence policies. In both cases the very alien races that nearly wiped out the humans later became Earth's BFF.

[@printezstroman]

It was, basically, Battlerstar Gundam without the episodes. Kotch's speech was fire though.