The Worst Episode of Teen Titans

[@hugocastellanos4223]

Starfire is stronger then Cyborg, but everyone forgets about this is fine even the writer forget about this.

[@Ucatty2]

I mean, raven could probably be stronger too if she used her demon side more often

[@sharksam8583]

@@Ucatty2 I mean, she is basically a half demon Demigod. Literally the only reason. she isn't able to just solo most of the villains. is because she's actively repressing her emotions and doing. a lot of other stuff to suppress her magic power.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​@@sharksam8583strongest teen titan I've ever seen

[@sharksam8583]

@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman fair enough.

[@MisfitMikey]

@@Ucatty2 Raven isn't physically stronger than him, she's more powerful using her powers, but like she couldn't lift more with just muscle. Starfire however is definitely physically stronger.

[@HiBuddyyyyyy]

Fun fact: the ‘pull yourself up by your bootstraps’ thing was originally said to make fun of that kind of mentality because you literally can’t pull yourself up by your bootstraps. But then some people were like ‘actually, that’s a really good message🤔’ for some reason.

[@sf-1_raptor]

If I had to take a guess from being from the US South, definitely probably shifted from proving those folks wrong, and using it ironically, cause language is weird.

[@maddiemcnugget1076]

@@sf-1_raptortrue true! Language is always evolving. Tbh I just never use this phrase… but I can see how the phrase has transformed over time

[@phoenixbloomshadowsong7253]

Helllo!, little bit late to the party, from what I've heard it goes back further!, it started as a miners saying and was 'pull THEM up by their boot straps' as in, rescuing someone from the rubble, cause if you could see their bootstraps you have a chance of getting them out

[@kai_maceration]

maybe we should switch to "if you're drowning, just drink the ocean!"

[@therevoltingslob2564]

I always pictured that as someone hanging upside down by the crooks of their knees on a pull up bar and pulling at their feet to try and get right side up I don’t even know which is more ridiculous, what I imagined or someone just standing on the ground pulling their feet up trying to fly

[@the_UF365]

Disabilities mean you have limits. As Amethyst from Steven Universe said, "Everyone tells me I can be whatever I want to be... uh, no, I can't!" And that's okay.

[@Silburific]

Ugh, that "you can be whatever you want" bullshit has pissed me off since I was child. I spent my childhood wanting to be someone who didn't suffer suffer from debilitating migraines. I'd currently like to be someone who isn't cursed to exist with chronic, excruciating pain. Maybe if I try real hard and pull myself up by my bootstraps, I can fix my fucked up nervous system...

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

​@@SilburificI am so sorry. How do you cope with the pain? Is there medication you can take? Do you get leniency on school and stuff? I hope so. I can only imagine. 😢😢😥

[@catbatrat1760]

Which episode was that again? Was it the wrestling one? I haven't watched Steven Universe in ages.

[@RamshacklePrefect]

Ah yes, if I believe enough the seizures will stop. My mother always said I was faking them, I guess because I couldn't do them on command. Oh, I'm sorry if me possibly never coming out of it is such an inconvenience to you😡😞😭

[@TheMightyN]

Except the allegory is completely defeated when taking into account Amethyst is a gem meaning her physical project can makeshift any form. And we know, in reality, pushing your physical is plausible and isn't always your disability. There have been boxers with broken legs diagnosed to never fight again that push their limits to achieve a goal. Outside of fighting people diagnosed with terminal illness are said to never to survive but prove the neigh-sayers wrong. That's the part Cyborg meant, just because have limits doesn't the will power to give up is the major solution That's not okay and that's something Steven Universe seems to miss the point with.

[@Sinc3r3ly]

“If someone says they’re at their limit, they’re at their limit.” Is not only more especially true because he’s disabled, but also because cyborg is supposed to be the tough tank of the team. It would need to take a lot in order for him to admit he can’t push further because he wants to keep up his strong image. Besides people in real life tend to let’s say not ask for help on a test unless they are absolutely stuck because we want to be able to do it ourselves.

[@Sinc3r3ly]

Chances are when a person says they’re at their limit, they’ve probably known about it for quite a minute and have been internally debating about wether or not they should “push on”. Also, as someone who’s leg has recently been giving me trouble with things like walking, standing etc. your channel has been a huge help in more ways I can ever say. It makes me unashamed to have to use a cane to walk like I would have been years and years ago, as well as for being autistic.

[@Bezaliel13]

Not to mention he was an athlete, so his words carried weight in that context.

[@beans3977]

​@@Sinc3r3lyAs someone who has scoliosis, this hits a home for me. It's frustrating as hell admitting you're at your limit with basic things

[@arktype586]

There is something that always confused me about this episode: if Cyborg has a power limit that's quantifiable, then what the heck is even the point of him training?? Can he extend that limit with training? It's never explained

[@Nin77731]

I think this case is similar to Geno's from OPM. He is as strong as his parts BUT he can still train his mind ( to be better at strategies in battle for example). But like cyborg still has some human parts right? Maybe he can train those ? I'm not that sure

[@kierangorman3052]

Maybe to maintain his current level of power? Like, maybe it could decrease over time if he didn't maintain his current muscle mass since part of his body is still biological.

[@ThePrincessCH]

Episodic series often reset themselves.

[@hedonismbot1508]

​@@Nin77731Assuming that Cyborg's human parts are just normal human parts, their contribution to his overall strength would be utterly negligible.

[@AuroraPaintBrush4444]

I think it's about keeping his mind sharp. The "use it or lose it" mind set, even with cybernetic parts, posture is important for safety.

[@seekerstheshy3842]

something i love about your channel is not hesitating to call a disabled character disabled. characters like cyborg just dont get called disabled because he doesn't fit a narrowminded image of a disabled person, he doesn't use a wheelchair, isn't visibly missing limbs or fitted with realistic prosthetics he's a cool robot dude who can do cool robot stuff and is in a super hero team. i don't have the time to think of the implications of this but i just had to say thanks for doing what you do

[@tabithavanderpool418]

Yeah people hate calling characters like cyborg, toph, or other badass disabled characters disabled which sucks

[@CannibalisticRapscallion]

​@@tabithavanderpool418 It's cause they think disabled is a dirty word, where'd you think the whole _"differently-abled"_ nonsense comes from

[@hedonismbot1508]

@@tabithavanderpool418 To be fair, we're talking about characters who, thanks to magic or sci-fi technology, have somehow or other compensated for their disability almost perfectly compared to what's possible in real life - such that it's hard to compare their situation to real-life disabled people without their complaints giving off a strong "First-World problems" vibe.

[@Przemko27Z]

I feel like with Cyborg and similar characters, it's a bit muddy. He's basically using prosthetics and needs them to navigate the world properly. But he also is essentially superhuman through the use of these prosthetics, so his experience isn't gonna exactly map to real disabled people. You could really make a case for either side on whether the label of disabled fits him or not or how much it fits him.

[@gailasprey7787]

@@CannibalisticRapscallionyeah disability is not a bad word. What are they going to call people with illnesses “Differently bacteriad” ?? 😂

[@THATGuy5654]

See, in the original comics, they had a story where Cyborg was struggling with the same kind of thing; with his fully organic body, he was an athlete, and could theoretically work to train his body to continually extend his limitations, but as a cyborg, the stress limits of his materials and the output of his servos were all quantifiable and known. He's stronger and faster than he ever could have been as a regular athlete, but he can no longer strive to get physically better. But, as you suggested, he did, in fact, come to realize that while the physical avenue was closed to him, he could continue to strive and improve in other ways. It is kinda funny that they got it right in the early 80's, but stumbled in the early 2000's. Though not so surprising when you consider that the "just believe in yourself" thing was still going strong from the 90's.

[@hedonismbot1508]

In that regard, Cyborg developing his own mechanical skills makes perfect sense. Instead of hitting the gym like the rest of us, he could improve his physical prowess by developing upgrades for his robot parts.

[@TheMightyN]

But the problem wasn't bad as you both make it out to be. If counterbalanced then perhaps the '80s comic book did perform the "Believe in yourself" message better. Nonetheless, dogging on this particular episode when its the cornerstone of Cyborg's growth throughout the episodes focused the character just seems like a disservice.

[@gailasprey7787]

@@TheMightyNit is. Suggesting that disabled people should just “try harder” is a bad message the episode absolutely portrays. Cyborg is obviously an allegory for disability. Get what I mean?

[@erikbihari3625]

​​@@gailasprey7787. Atlas;"you've reached your limit, you can not win". Cyborg;"Yes, I Can"! Check shady doorags for true review! Leave this garbage behind.

[@erikbihari3625]

​​​@@gailasprey7787. Remember this exchante?;"atlas;"humans scare so easily".-"Cyborg;"i'm Only Half Human"-"atlas;"And Half of Nothing is Still Nothing". Later Cyborg;"You're half Human, and that's the half that Can Beat Him". The episode literally spells you out the moral, and you half wit still don't get it? Remember the episode with fixit? The disabled kid completely overlooks his race and only mentions being prostethic, but Cyborg points out their augments aren't comparable, but They Are. Both racism and disability positivity(even more once digging deeper). I.e."even if you're considering yourself less because of your limits or who you are, doesn't mean you Are Less, or that others see you that way"!

[@arktype586]

This is how i would rewrite this episode: 1) cyborg is the one disregarding his limits because of his insecurity and takes risks despise everyone elses concerns 2) Cyborg loses against atlas because he refuses to work together and put everyone in danger 3) cyborg accepts his limits and just pretend to fight atlas while he is actually setting a plan to release his Friends 4) everyone works together, Atlas gets defeated and cyborg learns to respect his limits and that if he works together with his friends then there is no challenge they can't overcome. The end

[@BlazeWolf9511]

Yea, I can see it

[@GriffenDoesIt]

Could definitely see this. We could even work in the defeat coming through technological means rather than "all my friends are physically strong," showing that there are other ways around a given problem besides force

[@gvendurst]

That's pretty much the plot of the episode "Overdrive" when Cyborg updated his processor in order to be able to do more things everyday. He pushed himself beyond his limits to defeat Billy Numerous, sacrificing his need for sleep, eating, and his emotions to do so and still failing. The day was saved by everyone working together, Cyborg finding a clever counter to the enemy, making said enemy push himself past his breaking point and crashing hard.

[@Bezaliel13]

@@gvendurst Yeah, not a fan of the OP ngl. Maybe just have him make a temporary upgrade to expand his limit.

[@spartan7021]

This sounds much better and something that I would like to see happen.

[@danielladahoui888]

I think the episode would have worked better if Cyborg had pushed past his limit in the middle of the episode, which would have caused nearly irreparable damage, and it causes him has to rely on his wits to defeat this guy. A message about working around limitations. Sure, it’s possible to push past your limits, but in most cases it can be very dangerous and harmful if you don’t know what you’re doing. And in the end when Robin asks him about pushing his limits, Cyborg says yes and no: he CAN and maybe he could adjust his mechanical body to adapt to his development little by little, but sometimes working around limitations is JUST as important, if not MORE. It’s about compromising with who he is and what he can accomplish. As Beast Boy said in one episode: work smarter, not harder.

[@lavenderandchrysanthemums9441]

4:08 I actually remember a scene where it's shown that Starfire can lift more than Cyborg since she's an alien. This scene makes me way more uncomfy considering that since Starfire didn't do anything? Even though Cyborg one of her best friends, could've gotten seriously hurt. Like, girl? You're supposed to be the kind one.

[@zeboimcitizen27]

Raven can also lift literally anything with telekinesis, and Beast Boy can turn into an animal that probably has the strength to lift more than what Cyborg is lifting. The only one who on the team who didn't have the strength to spot Cyborg was Robin.

[@grecia3146]

I think that's why she didn't get it. Maybe from her point of view it wasn't a heavy weight, which is something people make the mistake of "If is not hard for me then is also no hard for them."

[@Neku628]

Maybe the episode thinks nice people are stupid.

[@joshraid1550]

@@Neku628I could definitely see a bad writer come to the conclusion that starfire is dumb, and that being dumb means oblivious to the suffering of others.

[@Sly-Moose]

I really hope the reason why they chose her not to spot him was because she's a girl

[@pacingandmuttering5106]

I live in a perpetual state of imposter syndrome over referring to my ADHD as a disability (in no small part because the struggles related to ADHD are invisible and easily dismissed by that kind of "just set your mind to it!" bs), but it will never cease to amaze me how closely I can relate to the descriptions of struggles for physically disabled people. It's basically one to one sometimes.

[@sotragespacefullgacha1430]

As a person with adhd I feel you so much ❤❤

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

None of us are imposters, the struggle is very real. Solidarity! I'm almost 60, diagnosed at age 40, and so, so grateful that I received coaching and found meds that suit me. Also, exactly three cups of coffee per day and enough sleep, with the help of melatonin if necessary - all this has changed my life for so much better that I can not even describe it properly. Be kind to yourself, please. Life is long, and much more pleasant when we don't have inside-our-heads fights all the time.

[@pyro-millie5533]

Fucking same.

[@conspiracypanda1200]

I keep wanting ADHD medication and I am diagnosed with ADD, but I keep putting off booking my first appointment because I am too busy all the time and therefore have no time to test what meds are right for me and then suddenly it's six months later and I remember that medication would make my life so much easier but I CAN'T be testing meds on myself because I'm ALWAYS BUSY so I have NO TIME because my ADHD making my life so much HARDER and LITERALLY DISTORTS MY PERCEPTION OF TIME SO I HAVE NO GOD DAMN TIME FOR ANYTHING EVER AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! Edit: Anyway I forgot that the point of this comment was supposed to be about people who say "Just book the appointment" to this particular problem. They do not understand that there is so much wrong with my head that I compulsively and unintentionally waste my own time because my brain is not built to percieve or hold memories of it correctly. I feel as if the future is a concept I cannot hold onto for more than a split second because my attention is always prioritizing the problems of Right Now. This is not merely Procrastination; it's called a lack of Executive Function, and it is a very big and terrible symptom of ADHD.

[@v3ru586]

@@conspiracypanda1200 same for me. Each time I put my mind to getting an appointment with a mental health professional, it took me several months to get a appointment, which was another six-seven months in the future. Only for the advice to take whatever I do on good day and repeat it on the bad days. Making it harder the next time to pick up the phone and call about the appointment. (I tried email, most would write back and ask me to call. Despite me explaining in my email why phone calls don't work for me, I'm told to just try, it's easy. At least my current therapist has an idea where my anxiety comes from, calling my limits "refusal to work" (=legal grounds for firing) messed me up

[@diddles3383]

Also, there's an episode where Cyborg, again, pushes himself too hard and actually works around his limits by creating multiple holograms of each titan including himself without having to fight at all. Overall it's a way better episode that didn't squick me out at all, plus Beast Boy is the one to tell Cy not to push himself in a sweet way with a little turtle origami :] ("Sometimes, it's best to be a slow, tiny turtle.")

[@zer0w0lf94]

That's Season 4 Episode 9, "Overdrive."

[@MatsuyoRific]

My whole childhood, me telling my mom that I couldn't do something was met with accusations of me just being lazy. I have a deformed left foot, but because it mainly only causes discomfort when I'm on my feet too long, it's not blatantly obvious that I'm disabled. It wasn't until I started walking with a cane at age 25 that my mom finally accepted that it was a physical limitation, and not an issue of motivation.

[@tunafour-shoes4618]

Cyborg has kinda always had the problem, where his writers don't understand "intersectionality". Cyborg can either be a black character, or a disabled character. Not both at the same time. Leading to a lot of writers making the cybernetics his superpower, and not his mobility aid.

[@julianaragan7955]

I strongly disagree. I think more effort should be put into both of these topics on the show, but black disabled people exist. To act like seeing one on TV is asking too much by having the "intersectionality" is a terrible idea, because characters are supposed to be complex and have multiple traits and challenges, as do people. Seeing someone with a more or less real combination of traits on TV is a good thing. Sometimes in Teen Titans it just could've been handled better with showing proper cybernetic limits as well.

[@Joy-zz8wz]

He's a genius!

[@namelessss2.h080]

@@julianaragan7955 I thought they meant the same? With the creators not being able to do both right at once. Did I misread it-

[@julianaragan7955]

@namelessss2.h080 I got the impression that they said the writers can't do both at once because it focuses on too many issues. I'm saying that with a little bit of research, both can easily be done.

[@Bezaliel13]

@@julianaragan7955 The OP definitely said "Not both at the same time." No idea how he would be 'not Black" though. (no joke)

[@MadCatJervis]

I was diagnosed with ADHD for over ten years and recently planning for an autism diagnosis too. That feeling of knowing you're at your limit but also knowing everyone else doesn't believe you and will always keep on pushing sucks hard. The worst part is, a lot of times I complied. 6 months ago I had to literally spell it out to people I trust that I'm disabled and can't do certain stuff only for them to give me this look that they don't believe me even if they say otherwise. They proceeded to almost completely ignore the fact that I'm unwell and kept asking me to give more. I did, over and over, until I literally ran out of everything and broke myself. I went through 5 major non verbal episodes in the past 6 months and couldn't even get out of the house for the first 3 months. The noise was unbearable and I'm legit still wondering if I caused permanent damage to my brain. I realized too late how messed up it was for all these able people to either keep on asking for more or sit idly by while just watching me break. It was a horrible experience and I'm still having difficulties trusting anyone again. If you feel like you're at your limit, don't let anyone tell you otherwise or push you further. Life isn't like a cartoon episode, if you go way pass a limit, it usually comes at a terrible cost mentally or physically. Screw people who won't believe in you, life isn't worth ruining for them. And honestly, when you break, most of them won't bother to give half the effort they demanded from you back to care for you.

[@alexmcgilvery3878]

Great analysis. Part of maturity, Disabled or not, is to know and respect your limits. The whole 'no limits' culture is dangerous and toxic. Simone Biles is returning to competitive gymnastics after taking two years off following her decision to remove herself from Olympic competition for her mental health. This is the kind of example we need more of. It also recognizes that being part of a team is sometimes letting the rest of the team carry the weight.

[@v3ru586]

I was raised to believe that I'm too stupid to know my limits. Whenever I felt like I've reached my limit, I got in trouble for being lazy. When I pushed myself further, I would crush, break something and get in trouble for "pretending to be unlucky /disabled". When I decided to get help to figure out how to stop being lazy, I got in trouble for wasting my time on unnecessary things instead of doing my job. All the while my parents knew of my ADHD, and I didn't.

[@CapriUni]

You know, that final quip of "I just needed to put my mind to it," would have made so much *more* sense if he'd actually used his genius to defeat the Enemy of the Week.

[@sparxstreak02]

This isn’t just associated with disability either. In my school choir, I was put as a mezzo soprano because that was the range my singing teacher assessed me to be. I could never sing opera level high notes as my voice was not suited to that range & as I got older, my voice gradually continued to deepen (as a woman’s voice does every 7 years or so - albeit very slowly). I learned as a singer, that I HAD to know my limits in order to choose songs that suited me & that I would succeed at. Many of the songs I sang at 12, 13 or 14, I could never sing now, as my voice is at a slightly lower range than it once was. But I still enjoy singing songs that suit my range & I’m okay with that.

[@claytondavidson6308]

Same ballpark as when it comes to respecting when people say they can't do something. It's mind blowing how some people just assume people with dietary restrictions are just making crap up to avoid eating food they don't like, and will literally fight with you over it. I personally don't have any dietary restrictions, but I heard someone talking about someone I know who does have them, and I've heard about cases where people have died or been hospitalized because someone intentionally gave them or threw food at them. Like, NO. If someone says they CAN'T eat something, you trust them and take it seriously, and you don't go try to pressure them into eating whatever it is they can't have wtf is wrong with people.

[@kylejones8289]

And hell, even if they are making it up to avoid eating food they don't like, who cares? No one should be forced to eat food that they don't like. If food tastes bad to me, I literally cannot force myself to eat it. If somebody doesn't want to eat food or says they can't for some reason, just leave them be. Why should you care what they choose to eat? How does it affect you? I have never understood this.

[@poprocks6576]

I think the writers of TT just don’t think of Cyborg as disabled. Like maybe they’d try the message that’d make more sense for a disabled person but instead the message is all about the perseverance of the human spirit and how no matter the limitations of the body the mind is always stronger Yama had a Will power which just isn’t how someone’s body works. It’s for kids though so it’s mean to be this big you can do anything you set your mind to Jimmy even if you don’t feel like it if someone like cyborg can feel like he cat go beyond you sure can. The writers are trying to convey a message about the sprit being stronger than the mind and you can do anything you set your mind to but with something and someone that only works to push the you can do anything including literally no longer having a disability.

[@waterbat95]

Another excellent video as always! I like the show a bit, but, as a disabled person with physical and mental disabilities, I always found it weird that I couldn't connect with Cyborg or feel inspired by him. Your explanations of why certain tropes he followed were harmful have helped me start to piece together why.

[@cartoonfanatic]

This episode isn't harmful honestly. The episode is just about Cyborg feeling him as a robot puts him as a disadvantage but learning that him being part robot has it's advantages. I feel the person may be reading a bit more into it, it was never made to send a harmful message

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

​@@cartoonfanatic, many harmful messages are accidental or even rooted in well-meaning or sympathy, yet they are still harmful. "Just push harder / ignore the pain," if uncritically believed and obeyed, is a pretty surefire way to break oneself sooner or later, be one abled or disabled to begin with.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 you would have a stronger point if bot for the context of the episode.

[@ultratog1028]

The "you can do anything if you push yourself" idea that is pushed into your head when young has caused me so much harm. It took me until I was 30 to unlearn it. I am autistic, so I had to push myself to appear equal to coworkers. To make me seem valuable. This, would backfire into meltdowns and make me appear bad to NTs. It took me awhile to learn not to push myself, and now I have less issues and meltdowns.

[@sallymon3752]

im a young chronically ill transmasc person. and as everyone knows, being masculine is traditionally associated with being strong, so i often push myself way too hard. i always try to remind myself to step back when i need to, but sometimes i just do a little too much and end up hurting both my physical and mental health. i appreciate you calling out the mindset "you can do it if you just tried hard enough", even my past therapist tried to tell me i was struggling because i didnt believe in myself enough - i know, fucking ridiculous. i wish anyone who's like me out there to also learn to listen to your body, and know that you dont need to be "strong" to be valid :)

[@pyro-millie5533]

I once had a physical therapist tell me something along the lines of “No pain No gain is a lie”. And that’s when it actually clicked for me that I needed to start listening to my body and not just overworking it for the sake of overworking it (thinking I wouldn’t be good enough if I had to stop doing shit I needed to do for awhile). It sucks that hurting yourself as the only way to gain traction - both mentally and physically is so steeped into every aspect of American culture. Years later, I still fall into the trap of overdoing things and regretting it and still need to work on it. I’m glad you’re learning to listen to your body, dude. It goes a long way. And hey. I’ve found that for me (Cis fem, health issues, want to be jacked again) a consistently decent diet and mild to moderate exercise have still helped me lose fat (which I really needed to medically) and put on muscle, and gain functional strength in an achievable and healthy way overall. I haven’t been able to do full on workouts in years because of connective tissue issues that have been causing chronic pain, so I’ve found workarounds incorporating physical therapy strengthbuilding techniques and the like. So actually hitting a gym, even if its milder exercise than what you want, is gonna produce visible results so long as you do it consistently. (Also, totally try out the cable style cage machine things. The free-weight adjacent controlled mass is super awesome for working on overall functional strength and stabilizer muscles, which will help you be able to not only have poppin’ mucles but a controlled strength to grow your limits safely overtime!) So keep listening to yourself, that’s super awesome to hear. And best of luck in your journey

[@pyro-millie5533]

*to clarify I meant “grow limits” as in muscular strength, how much you can lift, working toward whatever goals you have for your body… not as in “break free of a chronic illness” by pushing yourself.

[@vladdanciu6529]

Before Cartoon Network became "kid friendly" (aka before they started treating kids like idiots), Teen Titans was one of my favorite shows. Cyborg and Starfire are by far my favorites, for obvious reasons (I hope 😄 ). Also: 1) Those dogs are adorable; 2) In the same episode, the Romanian dubbed version, Cyborg's message to that child with a prosthesis was "It's not the arm that makes us the same, but our feelings" ... but in Romanian😁

[@IGuessItsSketchyT]

This is one of the best episodes of the show. No matter what limitations you may have once you put your mind to it there's nothing you can accomplish. This is fantastic message for the disabled. It delt with cyborg's identity and he had to accept both sides of himself. His Human half is what made him defeat Atlas. I believe you need to watch the episode again because the message clearly flew over your head.

[@Ultimatemouse]

this is just the one episode of teen titans i actively dislike for similar reasons. i have hyper mobility and arthritis on top of a heart condition and scoliosis (corrected by metal rods) if i say "stop" usually quite calmly i mean "for the love of all that is merciful in the name of what ever deity that you subscribe to STOP!!!! I AM GOING TO FALL APART LITERALLY!" can i push through and give "110%"? yes but that results in my heart being at risk, my limbs potentially getting horrifically damaged and excruciating pain that wont let me stand for a good amount of time with the potential of a PTSD episode. i have only done it willingly 5 times in my life i don't want to need 2 hands to count it, when i saw cyborg going 130% i actually thought he was going to die because if i did something like that i very well could die.

[@asahitora]

I got the end result of my diagnosis process for Autism and was actually gaslighted by the psychologist, for one telling me, that I should be happy for not being diagnosed and she is happy about every person she doesn’t have to diagnose, completely devaluating my perception of myself as-well as my emotions. It turned out at the end that she only looked for child Autism and it’s true, I probably don’t have that, but then again that is only one part of a big spectrum.

[@idk-ill-figure-smn-out]

I mean tbh, *not* getting the autism diagnosis was the only way I was able to escape being stuck in Special Ed and eventually be forced to learn to mask, because I was never allowed any excuses to not act "normal" (Somehow, I was considered "too smart" to be considered a retar- I mean, an "autist", because every mental health expert I knew basically treated those terms as synonymous. So instead, I was diagnosed with like six other miscellaneous disorders like "OCD" and "Oppositional Defiant Disorder" that turned out to be mere stress responses and aren't even relevant to the way I interact with the world anymore. Also, the "Bipolar Depression" I was diagnosed with somehow magically cured itself when I found out I was trans lol). This was only 15 years ago, and the stigma for Autism is still _terrible_ today despite better education on the topic. The reality is that autistic people are heavily discriminated in education and the workplace, and it's the reason i'll likely never seek out a diagnosis despite having all the hallmark symptoms. I'll probably just live alone and as quietly as possible, never getting into any romantic entanglements or overly intimate friendships where people will inevitably discover the unfiltered version of me that's a whiny, neurotic shitbag and because that sort of lifestyle is too stressful anyways. I don't begrudge any autistic people seeking a diagnosis for themselves and acceptance from others/larger society, but life is kind of a bitch, and sometimes the *best* you can hope for is to _survive_ and not suffer too much.

[@VoidStaresback]

​@@idk-ill-figure-smn-outI was told the same thing but I still got the diagnosis... "You are too smart for us to catch you being autistic" was essentially what my doctor said. Yet they thought a diagnosis would help me. Did they say it to sound nice? Like other people when I trust them enough to tell them; "You must have a light version" or my favourite; "You don't look/sound autistic to me". What does that even mean? That I'm not ugly and speak monotonusly? Gee thanks for noticing after calling me pretty previously, it's not like I will spontanously morph into my autistic self because I already have it on full display for you! While a diagnosis is supposed to be the key to help you get the right tools you still have to wrestle the whole medical system to get them. And most of times figure stuff out on your own... I am glad however that the acceptence is starting to grow at least where I live (Sweden) as the school system forces more kids to get diagnoses.

[@unofficialspider-man465]

I had this moment in a social interaction a while ago where I was drained from being in a room with loud noises and the authority figure kept on giving me things to do in that room without my headphones.

[@crittermoded]

i havent seen this show since middle school, and i still instantly knew what episode you were gonna talk about, even as a child whose chronic ailements hadnt really kicked in yet, that initial establishing nightmare scenario was still so terrifying

[@savannah2179]

(To be fair to the Avengers, many of them USED to have secret identities but they just fell to the wayside over the years. Fun fact: Iron Man revealed his secret identity in the comics by saving a kid and his dog from being hit by a car. But if you like secret identities and stuff with queer-coding, then X-men might be more up your alley; the X-Men Evolution cartoon plays that in the first few seasons. I wouldn't recommend modern X-Men comics though :| ) As for the video; very interesting! I have vague memories of watching this episode years ago on Cartoon Network. I've also never liked that SciFi trope of being a cyborg making you "less human", it just never made sense to my kid brain (and now it still doesn't to my adult autistic brain). There needs to be more stories of cyborg characters calling out that trope for the dumb BS it is lol.

[@lelduck6388]

“You can’t do something? Just stop having skill issues and do it anyway!”

[@JShepLord]

I read the cyborg scene more as "regardless of disability we're all human and should be treated and respected as such" rather than and ignoring of disability. But then again, I'm not physically disabled, so maybe that affects my view on things.

[@TheLoginProductions]

"... so maybe that affects my view on things." It's also possible that the opposite could be the case.

[@JShepLord]

@@TheLoginProductions what exactly is possible?

[@TheLoginProductions]

@@JShepLord You stated that perhaps your exact life experiences, gave you a different perspective of the episode in question. So, could the same not be argued for the other side of the coin? Everyone has walked different paths and many see things differently from one another. With such a range of perspectives and viewpoints, it's interesting to see some apply or relate one's own life experiences to things they enjoy. When it comes to art, I think it's always important to look at the intention of the artist. If they meant one thing and a viewer sees another, then the viewer missed the point. Now depending, that could be a positive, or a negative. It can depend on how one looks at it. All in all, who is to say you understood the artist's point better or worse than anyone else? The same applies to the other way around. It's indeed possible that one can miss the point, depending on one's own life experiences. Whatever life experiences those may be. That was my point.

[@JShepLord]

@@TheLoginProductions that was way too much text to explain literally exactly what I sad at the end of my original post. You even quoted me saying that, and now you're trying to redundantly convince me that others may have a different point of view... You have a lot of time on your hands?

[@TheLoginProductions]

@@JShepLord Wow did you miss the hole point. Also I left you a one sentence response originally, then you asked for a further explanation of what I meant. My second response wasn't even that long. Read the other comments under this video (that are over double the size of both of ours combined) and tell me again that my response was too long. On top of all of that (even though we seem to agree), you're angry that I basically agree with you and quoted you? I wasn't trying to school you, I was agreeing with you and added some further impute myself. Adding the notion of the artist's intentions and so on. To recap, you're mad that I agree with you, responded to you with a quote from you, and thought I was trying to teach you something you already know. If this is how you treat people who agree with you, I hate to see how you treat those who disagree with you. "With friends like these, who needs enemies."

[@Sly-Moose]

Your channel has taught me how NOT to write a disabled character that I wouldn't have known otherwise due to ignorance, despite my Mom being disabled. So ty.

[@BlackAutMedia]

I remember always disliking how they handled Cyborg as being both Black and disabled even when I was a kid. Even when the episodes don’t directly relate to disability like in “Troq” when of all the people to be a poor ally and be the target that Starfire gets angry with on the team the pick the Black disabled boy and not say Robin when she’s called a slur, it’s pretty frustrating. I always felt the episode “overdrive” had far more potential to work from a disability lens. Cyborg basically gets a super chip that lets him work faster and be stronger, making him far more productive but in overexerting himself the chip makes him more machine like and the attitude he has toward always needing to “do more” and not his prosthetics are what are harmful to him. He loses to the villain of the week and feels he still needs to “do more” until he overexerts himself and nearly dies. His friends remove the chip and Cyborg instead basically does what he should have done in these episodes by working around his limitations and comes up with a plan to beat the villain without even moving. The focus of “the overfocus on being productive enough is extremely harmful” wasn’t even fully its intention but would have been far more welcome from a disability lens.

[@Joy-zz8wz]

I viewed it as more of a solidarity thing than an ally ship thing per se but I don't disagree with you?

[@BlackAutMedia]

@@Joy-zz8wz it is and that’s the intention, but it rubs me the wrong way how often Black people, especially a Black disabled character is made to be the “face” of the problem, especially since the casting was entirely white for the main group except for Cyborg. Other shows like Wednesday, We Bare Bears, etc have done a similar thing where it’s an allegory for some form of bigotry only for them to make a white or white coded character the victim and the most marginalized person in the room either the perpetrator or the ally who needs to learn to do better.

[@rroes7319]

Shout out to my horrible PE teacher for making me seek ways to never have a gym class ever again!

[@atlasllm]

Was listening to this while folding laundry and nearly had a heart attack hearing my name (Atlas) get mentioned 😭😭

[@eptck]

“ just believe in yourself “ is . a veiled thought crime , in the same vain as “ just have faith “ or “ just pray “ but suddenly people don’t see it when it isn’t religious and isn’t directed at them

[@saorlathesurly]

You know, with the whole fighting game aspect of the episode leading into Atlas, one would think maybe an alternate solution could be what one generally does in fighting games - study how the other player operates, and figure out ways to counter that.

[@thegayghost872]

Slight off topic, but Raven could definitely have helped Cyborg with the weight lifting, since she's telekinetic and could just move the weights with magic when they fell

[@pandabanaan9208]

Honestly I find the idea of a villain who is such a salty gamer he unironically wants him to 1 V 1 him in real life absolutely hysterical

[@TissuDemon]

Reminds me of being told as a kid that I was so smart... if I only tried... while trying my best while having learning disabilities.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

* solidarity fist bump * undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia - the gifts that kept giving even in college...

[@TissuDemon]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 photophobia bad enough to slow my brain down. Also very likely have dyslexia but long story short trying to get tested went from an uphill battle to too expensive. *solidarity fist bump* Did you finish college?

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

@@TissuDemon, only after getting diagnosed with ADHD and getting some coaching and then meds that suit me (my dyslexia is thankfully pretty mild). I was almost 50 when I finally got my bachelor's degree. I had just finished all my classes for my master's and started on my thesis a little bit when the pandemic hit, so we shall see if I ever get my master's at all :-/

[@TissuDemon]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 I believe in you! You can do it!

[@molinagrn65]

Even though as a kid I liked this episode or didn't mind it, I definitely felt the team, or mainly Robin wasn't really sympathizing with Cyborg as he should in the start of the episode. Pushing one of your teammates way too hard that he could potentially hurt himself, even if he's half machine could still be incredibly risky not just to their body, but to their mind with these limits as Cyborg wasn't born as a machine. He was human like Robin, so that really rubbed me wrong.

[@beanthebean4409]

The “beating pushed passed your limits” is a thing with cognitive disability’s as well. I have autism and if I say “it’s too loud I need to leave” I often get hit with “it’s not that bad! Just try a little harder” most people do understand that I have already tried my hardest and I neeed to leave, they think I’m being weak or anxious when it’s really just me knowing my limits

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Solidarity! I'm AutDHD and sound sensitive, and a few days ago, my dog found one of my earbuds under the kitchen table (my fault, I had not noticed I dropped it). It now has some dents in the plastic cover, and neither bud stays Bluetooth connected for more than a couple of minutes. When I needed to go to the pharmacy at the mall yesterday, I put the earbuds in anyway because I was quickly losing my ability to think. The constantly blaring music and ads feel AWFUL to me without any dampening. I need to get replacements asap.

[@-obamium5320]

The episode Overdrive, cyborg pushes past his physical limit but ends up fighting Billy Numerous a guy you can’t fight with brute strength. Overexerting himself was not worth putting his health at risk and also not the solution to the situation.

[@kid14346]

The comment about children needing actionable advice instead of just being told try harder reminds me of how Sesame Streets new motto is "I Wonder, What If, Let's Try!" versus how when I was a kid it was just try the same stuff but harder... I really am happy that it teaches stopping, thinking of solutions, and then trying new things instead of just do it again but better. I mean sadly it doesn't teach the problem solving of, "No you see you did do it fundamentally correct the first time and it could have worked, but you just need to try it again but a tiny bit different."

[@frenchfriar]

I *hated* being told "give 110%", and "no gain without pain", by the exact same folks that told me to "know your limits" and "don't overwork". Mixed messages much? It didn't help that the only representation I had was Mr Magoo. (Yeah, I was and still am not only severely nearsighted, but also have severe astigmatism, luckily correctable with glasses.) My glasses had such strong correction they interfered with my hand-eye coordination. So yeah, "you can just pull through this" is bullshit, I knew my limitations at a very early age. This was a very problematic episode, I agree with you.

[@IDKwhoIamEither]

If I push myself beyond 'I need a break I can't do this' I'll end up in the floor collapsed out of exhaustion

[@Star-Jack]

Yeah, in my opinion it would’ve been far better if after the first loss cyborg either got help, or augmented his tech, or something else. There was a mechanic that they started to try and turn against atlas, and he could’ve maybe done something. Cyborg’s whole thing of the 110% was awesome as a winning moment but felt off. I would’ve loved it far more had nearly anything else happened

[@Star-Jack]

Like in my mind it’d make far more sense for cyborg to get an upgrade, seeing as we see it’s possible at least in some respects to change or augment his systems with the max-7 chip episode

[@alexvaughan1013]

I'll say this to the Teen Titans. As teenage superheroes, they're far more mature and professional than the Guardians of the Globe in Invincible.

[@lazuliartz1296]

I don't have any physical disabilities, but I do have both depression and ADHD, and as such I am very familiar with the mentality that I can just do something if I put my mind to it. For example, I've had some really bad rat-nest rooms in my lifetime. People don't seem to believe that something as simple as cleaning my room could actually be something difficult, and that it must mean that I'm lazy or a disgusting person in general. It sucks - I don't like sleeping around trash on my bed anymore than any other person, and I wish I could just will myself to do these tasks, but unfortunately, there are times where it's just too difficult for me. For the record, my room is much better now (I'd say it's upgraded to "normal teenage/college freshman" messy instead of "highly depressed pack rat" messy ha), mostly because I am medicated and have learned coping strategies other than "just get up and do it." Surprise surprise, when you treat the underlying condition, it increases the limits of what you are capable of, who knew. It's difficult with mental disabilities like this because it's so much harder to explain why I can't do something. "I just don't have the energy to keep my space clean, or I'm in a place where I just don't care enough about my physical wellbeing to try to clean" is not exactly something you can grasp unless you've experienced it yourself

[@TheFreakDownStreet]

Even without the disability angle, not helping someone lifting after they tap out is SUPER messed up. That is a really irresponsible message to put out there.

[@Neku628]

Another thing I get annoyed with is, "Stop using your disability as a crutch!"

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Yeah! What is that even supposed to mean??

[@sworddragonsliege]

Another great video. I know almost nothing about Teen Titans, but still interesting and is good to think about when writing my own disabled characters.

[@lulucool45]

it's a pretty well-written show! i recommend it even if you're older

[@thestationerydraw2733]

Why did we have to move away from the dog tangent?

[@finn2413]

I only recently got diagnosed with my disability (it’s one that only really affects my age group) so hearing your perspectives has been so so important and crucial to me. I haven’t had to look at media critically through the disabled lens, so hearing you dissect analogies and metaphors and ableism and representation as a fellow disabled trans queer person… it’s amazing

[@toganium4175]

My favorite version of Cyborg is still the one in the Doom Patrol TV series. The show in general is great with disabled characters.

[@scorchinganimationsstudios8450]

I have an idea about how this episode could've been better (Know that I'm not disabled aside from needing glasses so take my idea with a grain of salt) So this episode begins with training so cyborgs friends pressure him into giving more than what he can take I'm thinking cyborg pushes himself more and seriously injures himself his teammates try to cheer him up due to their guilt but he wants to be left alone so he plays his game When the villain comes the team fights till their breaking points making them vulnerable and cyborg can do little to help he tries to make a plan for them but the team doesn't listen leading to the robot capturing them cyborg has to wait for his body to heal but in the meantime he plans and builds then faces off against the villain and wins the team apologize to him and Robin promises not to push him nor themselves to a breaking point to really hammer it into the kids that that was wrong

[@loganswalk8621]

A better version of "Only Human" I'd rewrite is highlight Cyborg's intelligence and even though his body has limitations his mind doesn't have him create something to even the playing field and when Atlas tries to say he has no honor Cyborg replies "You kidnapped my friends I owe you nothing" After Robin and the others apologized and Cyborg accepts because they were only trying to support him you can even keep the "put my mind to it" line because in this context it's more of "work smarter not harder" message.

[@nickonerd]

I can’t stress enough how I relate with mental disorders that are mild on the outside to others, I’ve been through abuse since people around me have assumed I should either be stupid and incapable or I’m lying about my struggles. I wanted to unalive myself so often by that rhetoric. I no longer blame myself and don’t feel ashamed to not be exploited into abusive corporations

[@Dee-jp7ek]

Unrelated but I always think about the episode Starfire was experiencing racism from some alien dude and Cyborg chimed in with "I know how it feels" and as a kid I thought "wow they're tackling this" only to be hit with "because of my cybernetics" 🤦

[@erikbihari3625]

Atlas;"humans scare so easily". Cyborg;"i'm Only Half human". Atlas;"and half of Nothing, is Still Nothing". Does this mean you agree with atlas?

[@AgentofChaos315]

"You can do it if you try hard enough" Sure, if I believe hard enough I can just spontaneously gain more muscle mass

[@ToHoldNothing]

Cyborg's treatment in the show is mixed, yeah, one could say the same about other characters, especially Raven, given they have to simultaneously give her powers she generally doesn't have in the comics and not really address some of the powers she does have (empathic healing especially). Then even nerfed Starfire technically, since I think she has more potential in her abilities to absorb radiation than they give her credit. To an extent, she can do more than Superman and in some comic storylines, she'd probably be only a few stages weaker than Wonder Woman when enhanced with ultraviolet radiation (not just yellow sun radiation, probably red sun too, which makes her really only powerless if she was forced into a mission where it was constantly night or underground) Titans did a better job with Raven and Starfire's powers, especially in how mercurial and unpredictable they could both be, though they also opted in the creative process to have Cyborg appear in Doom Patrol, which I'd say wasn't the worst decision, given Doom Patrol is something I feel like anyone can appreciate, regardless of familiarity with comics in general, since Doom Patrol is really obscure by comparison anyway. I'd heard of them, but it's a really fun ride.

[@ultratog1028]

This isn't even good work out behavior for able bodied people. When someone asks for a spot, they need help immediately.

[@packman2321]

This was really cool. I remember having similar reactions to the show rewatching it in my 20s (though I skipped Only Human) after appreciating the fact disabled readings were even present in the teens (it was a very slim field). I think I ultimately ended up in a similar sort of place, though you definitely articulate it better than I could. My pet peeve in the 'you can do it' trope was any scene where someone is walking across a rope bridge, log dropped over a raveen or anything, as if that's an easy thing to do. As if balance issues don't exist and balance doesn't get worse when someone is scared. If it's important that a character get across it, go and help them (also one of those annoying moments where you reach that 'oh, this character isn't actually like me after all' in fiction, those are frustratingly common). My go to example for a show I think does this better was Little Witch Academia. Akko is unable to fly a broom throughout the entire show due to her magic problems and spells constantly misfire. Not only does the show take the strange ways Akko casts (her attempts to transform objects only ever transform herself) and turn them into solutions for problem, but the final scene of the show has one of her friends modifying a broom with extra parts. With the adjustments they install Akko is able to sort of taxi it along a few feet off of the ground and this is treated as something exciting for her and worth celebrating as a happy ending by the story. It doesn't have Akko push through and learn to fly or overcome her limits (though that's sort of implied in Diana's arc, but I can read that as internalised ableism on Diana's part) it modifies the problem to support Akko, then recognises how cool this is for her as legitimate. (Although obviously this is a single scene that stuck in my head, I don't remember if the show consistently stacks up to that level)

[@zofifi7549]

Mhhm. Mhhm. I see. Thats some valid and thoughtful social comentar- CUTE DOGGIES! But for serious, I remember being told as a kid all the time that "I'm a clever girl (inser raptor noises) I just need to try harder". And I was gettin extra frustrated because I was pretty sure I was already doing my best, if not my 100% then at least 95% or something and how much this 5% would change? Seriously, nobody can expect anybody to work at full nitro speed all the time. 100% is for special occasions like a serious dedline or an emergency, not for day-to-day life.

[@wistfulanthophila9317]

why the raptor noises?

[@zofifi7549]

@@wistfulanthophila9317 because of the scene in the first "jurrasic park" movie where this guy got outsmatred by the velociraptor. He called her clever girl before getting eaten.

[@ilikedragons7765]

Hey, have you seen epithet erased? Because I’d like to hear your thoughts on the character Mera and her disability

[@tomheagney2181]

I always took this episode as cyborg had relied on the abilities of his prosthetics, which he used for most of his abilities, but maybe forget about how strong he was before all the 'upgrades' I took it as a sign of hope that underlying all of his mechanical features he was with or without always an incredibly determined human.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

This might just be me as an able-bodied person (I wear glasses and have mild asthma, but I don't consider that a serious enough life adjustment to consider myself disabled), but I never saw Cyborg as being disabled-coded. His cybernetics do not hold him back and he draws much of his strength and confidence from them. To me the 100% thing was simply how far Cyborg could push himself safely, and it's more of a metaphor for him lacking confidence in himself. As for Robin telling Cyborg to give 110%, I think that comes from him being raised by Batman, who pushed and trained Robin to and beyond his limits on a daily basis. I don't see it as Robin being problematic or toxic, just him internalising the way Batman trained him and trying to encourage Cyborg. "Give 110%" is a pretty common concept in sports and for those who want to push their limits and get stronger. The problem is Cyborg has a mental block (which can actually hold you back physically) that makes him think his current 100% is as far as he will ever be able to go. So his being able to break past his 100% is meant to be Mind Over Matter. At least that's how I read it. Cyborg wasn't too weak, he was just held back by what he thought his upper limt was. When you convince yourself that you're as good as you'll ever be, you mentally restrain yourself from getting any better. As for the scene with the disabled kid, I think what the show intended was that *"You shouldn't base your identity around being disabled, it's a part of you, but it shouldn't define the way you see or feel about yourself."* Like Cyborg having to learn the lesson that he shouldn't see himself as half-human like being half-robot makes him any "lesser" than others. As a ginger who wears glasses I feel "representation" is overrated, I never needed a fictional character to be ginger or wear glasses for me to be able to relate to or connect to them on a personal level. I have never felt entitled to *'see myself'* portrayed in the media I watch (though historically Ginger characters being replaced with Black counterparts is a very real thing in media - just google *"Gingers replaced with Blacks in media"* it and you'll see Ginger Erasure is a real thing in media), because it's not about me. So long as the writing is strong and the characters are written well, that's all I want and expect from my media. Characters don't need to superficially resemble you in some way for you to connect to them. I am not a woman but there are plenty of fictional women whom I find myself able to relate to due to their struggles. Looks are only skin deep after all. I'm not saying your interpretation of the examples you gave in this video are wrong, but I do feel that you were projecting your own experiences as a disabled person onto the episodes and the writing. Which may have predesposed you to view and feel negatively about the episodes and the lessons they intended to teach.

[@Bunni89]

Oh thank GOD I thought I'd never find someone else who agreed on this!!! It was just so frustrating as a kid being really upset by this episode and seeing everyone else around me say it was so inspirational and feeling like.. literally not human for being sad. Because Cyborg says it's the human part of him that lets him break the physical limits of his body. It's just really not a good lesson to teach kids, sometimes you just literally cannot "do whatever you put your dreams to", especially when it involves physical things that, yknow, you can just be unable to do because of no fault of your own. This episode sucks so much because Cyborg is one of the most direct metaphors for a disabled person you could ever get, he's literally got prosthetics for over half of his entire body! Pushing your prosthetics too hard doesn't make you a big hero who'll realise your limits were higher than you thought, it'll just break either the prosthetic or the goddamn arm connected to it, and you'll be hurting even more than usual. And it fucking sucks that this kind of message gets pushed on disabled people just because abled people can't imagine the idea of not being able to.. what, just weightlift yourself back to having non robotic legs? Heroic willpower can't fix a physical disability, you can't mentally wish hard enough to make an injury cease to exist. And it hurts so much than an episode I thought was gonna be a good message about this instead has him indeed magically somehow mentally willing his goddamn nonexistent legs and arms to.. mechanise.. better?? What?? Seriously it literally is not in the person's control how well their prosthetic works, it's a goddamn machine! Can you wish a computer to upgrade it's graphics card just cos you really want it?? And this terrible message was ingrained into me as a kid even long before I became disabled, I felt the pressure applied to so many other things too. It made me hate myself for not succeeding at any task on the first try, and made me give up immediately. Because of the idea that just TRYING HARD can make you master anything instantly and you must just be weak and useless if it doesn't work. I didn't know that the reason other people seemed to be surpassing my limits is that any skill needs to be LEARNED and you expand those limits gradually with more practise. Cos of so many messages that ~just believing in yourself~ made you instantly succeed, and anyone who didn't is a stupid wimp. It sucks that this message that's supposed to raise a kid's self confidence has become so warped that it does the exact opposite... I wish a show would finally someday subvert this message and show a character as good for respecting the limits of their physical sickness, or them suffering negative consequences from ignoring them. I thought my hero academia was gonna do something like that with Deku breaking his arms every time he overuses his power, bit in practise it's just everyone warning him that next time he does it he won't be able to heal and then he just does it again anyway and there's still no consequences. Just a way to create artificial stakes for a fight, instead of an actual good message.. just a series where a guy repeatedly hurts himself and gets nothing but rewarded for it.. gahh..

[@Bunni89]

Another series with a similar episode that upset me was Medabots, doubly so because it wasn't about the character himself believing this stuff but his best friend and brother figure pushing it on him. The main robot partner Metabee is in a situation where he's pushed himself beyond breaking limits and another fight might horribly injure or kill him, but his human partner Ikki needs to win one more fight to get into the tournement. So him, the guy who is NOT suffering the awful pain, continuing to yell at his robot friend to push himself harder is.. somehow portrayed as being a good friend instead of a terrible one? Even though he's doing it entirely for his own personal gain! Every character in the cast yells at him and calls him a loser when he even considers ending the match because his robot is hurt. And even worse, a bunch of contrived stuff happens so he would have still gotten into the tournament on a technicality, just at a lower rank. But he's still like "no, I want to win this fair and square by pushing our limits!" And gets praised for this! He's risking his best friend's life now for NO REASON except just "cos we'd be wimps if we didn't". Nothing is at stake, he's already in the damn tournament! And OF COURSE predictably this story plays out with Metabee indeed breaking his limits and winning the fight without dying, and the moral is its good to never give up even when you could be breaking your damn arms just to make SOMEONE ELSE win some social fame. Geeeez... Also to make it worse the entire reason Metabee was injured is cos he saved Ikki's mom from being kidnapped, so it made Ikki seem like a complete ungrateful bastard. It was mind melting to see Metabee AND THE MOM HERSELF all thanking Ikki for "not giving up" when he was the one losing nothing and they were the ones who could have heckin died today. Why do kids shows have such an issue with this.. you'd think teaching kids the proper limits to "you can do anything" would be pretty important! The only thing sadder than these episodes is imagining some real world child breaking their prosthetic trying to copy them...

[@illmamnim]

From an able-bodied perspective, I wonder if the idea of "just put your mind to it" came from that phase around your 20s of suddenly being able to do things that, as a teen, were a struggle. I've talked about it with my brother the other day. We are both neurodivergent (though his adhd is much more severe) and struggled in school. And after we got into higher education, we both noticed how well we're doing all of a sudden. But it wasn't "all of a sudden", we both fought to actually make it past high school (and took longer than our peers to do so) but now that we're not bombarded with hormones and social expectations, we are able to work with a sounder mind. So, if we felt like we just "became better" while in reality we simply learned how to best utilize out time and work methods, what happens when people go through their teen years with out having something intense to prove? If they got through school because they just managed to, and their struggles were mostly emotional and motivational (because being a teen sucks), they must think that this was the way they got better- by "getting over it"- and how others can get better too.

[@pinkbluesapphire]

Its funny that two creators that im a fan of both released a video about the same episode of the same show in the same month and came to completely different conclusions about the episode. Its a pretty funny coincidence.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Now I am curious: On which channel is the other video?

[@pinkbluesapphire]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 his channel name is Shady Doorags

[@hugocastellanos4223]

there a show call Maya & Miguel that dose representation, and there with the episodes "When Maya Met Andy" about a one arm boy, this came out in the same year as ""Only Human" so is just the writer that failed in telling a good story.

[@cartoonfanatic]

The story in this episode is actually great. Some people are maybe reading a bit too deep into it. Even without the disability aspect, it's still a great entertaining story on it's own. There are worse episodes of Teen Titans like the S3 finale, Forces of Nature and Deep Six

[@thoroughlyjordan]

Man, I actually really like this episode. That's probably because I am not disabled AND an American. It's interesting to get your perspective here. How you see the scenes differently than I do.

[@THATGuy5654]

I probably would have been confused by your point at the end, had I not, probably within only the last couple of months, seen a video of a baby with only one hand meeting a an adult woman with the same disability for the first time. I've never observed the joy and excitement of someone finally seeing themselves in the world in such a simple or unambiguous way before.

[@kittycatmeowmeow963]

3:17 I know what you mean. I overheat really easily. And when I say that, that includes exercising too much. And when I overheat, I get seizures.

[@ShadowEclipex]

That talk about people not believing you when you say you hit your limit really hit close to home for me atm. For the most part I am able bodied, but work has been pushing me to the point where I am getting concerned about permanent damage damage. I told my supervisor multiple times about this, but he ignored it or didn't realize how bad it was and kept putting me in compromising conditions. I had to go to my manager multiple times before I finally got lighter work. And it also took one person quiting to do it. Needless to say I am going to looking for a new job too.

[@myStitch11]

Now I’m curious about your thoughts on other episodes like when Cyborg infiltrates the villain school and has some dysmorphia about appearing not disabled, or the episode when he was in a garbage pit and a dude almost made him fully robot. Or maybe just your favorite episodes in general

[@shizuwolf]

Yeah I’ve had to deal with this stuff my whole life. I was born with cerebral palsy and people have always told me “maybe you could walk if you tried harder”, but I usually heard it after my condition has inconvenienced them in some way. It never came up as motivation to play football (not soccer) or anything like that

[@SpectacleSpark]

Stuff like this reminds me that movies like monster university (a movie about that even if you can't do whatever you want by believing in yourself, there are other things that you have that make you unique and can find other things you're good at) where mike wazowski couldn't be scary and people kept telling him to give up because well.. He isn't a scary monster, but they show a bunch of other skills and abilities that make him unique. Idk if you ever did a review on monster university but I think it could be a good review to look at maybe. I genuinely didn't know how to explain this to my ability but I hope this makes sense???? Idk I'm probably rambling on about dumb shit :(

[@cottencandykitten]

..... starfires the tank. But also range. Raven is supposed to cover the support aspect (medic and tactical escape) but also comes with a degree in computer engineering and some bad ass short time attack power Robins the intel and detective guy. Traps and foundations for a good attack. Beastboy is also pretty durable but more of a Cyborg is the artificer...

[@animosity9197]

There's something extra icky and insidious about having a Black disabled character constantly considered less than human or worrying about his humanity. And having him be the tank and "power through" his physical limits takes on even more gross baggage as a large Black young man. Especially since, like you say, he's also explicitly a mechanical and technological genius! They would have been hard-pressed to find a MORE gross story to put on his shoulders.

[@IGuessItsSketchyT]

I'm so glad teen Titans go was made in the early 2000s and not today because it would have been ruined by people like you.

[@gomagicalmina]

One thing I find interesting - or rather frustrating - with superheroes that have what would ordinarily be considered disabilities is that they are given something that makes that disability negligible. Like a blind person who can hear so well they don't need to see, somehow. In cyborg's case, at least in this show, his limitations only matter where it is plot convenient. Otherwise he is laser blasting and lifting whatever is required. I would love to see disabled heroes who have the same limitations as disabled people and use the same kind of work arounds as their real world counterparts. Either they are capable of doing tasks in a way that differs from able bodied heroes, or they are not but have proper support and accommodations to help them achieve superhuman feats. Comics often have superhero teams, so their teammates should be well adapted to knowing each other's limitations and help to support each other.

[@ob2kenobi388]

I think the worst part is you can just imagine a better plot than this so easily-Starfire is so obviously an autism/aspergers caricature that using that as a point of relation between her and Cyborg seems OBVIOUS. Like imagine if after the weight scene Starfire was the only one who hounded him afterwards and he ended up yelling at her to leave, thus causing her to cry and run away. Cyborg feels bad about this and goes to apologize, and she tells him that she really didn't know that he wanted to be alone and was trying to be his friend and help him. He then connects himself expecting her to automatically know his wants/needs without being told to them pushing him to lift a weight he couldn't carry. They could then reach some solidarity on this, both having disabilities and limits that aren't understood by the rest of the team. Even if they can't 100% relate to each others' struggles, they realize they're alike in more ways than they realized. See!? The mental/physical disability solidarity is so obvious yet the writers didn't even see the possibility!

[@cartoonfanatic]

Uh I think people like you and the OP are reading a bit too into it and are not getting what the episode is truly going for.

[@ob2kenobi388]

@@cartoonfanatic Then explain what you think it's going for instead of just accusing us of not getting it. Also, whether a piece of media was intending to portray a certain topic and whether it portrays that topic poorly are two different things. It can absolutely have negative messages wholly unintended by the creators.

[@addisondrake733]

@@ob2kenobi388how is starfire an 'obvious' autism caracture? Also the point of the episode was to push past your mental limits. Cyborg didnt get to be the best football player by saying he cant bench more than 140lb he got that way by pushing himself. That's what physical theropy is about

[@cathycat4989]

There's this idea that if you put a heavy chain around the neck of a baby elephant, it won't be about to pull it off or break it when it's a baby, but will have that ability as an adult. However, the elephant will grow up thinking they're not strong enough to break the chain, even when they are. I think this is what people need to keep in mind, that abilities and levels of strength and endurance change. When someone says 'you can do anything' it would be more useful instead say 'you don't know your full potential. You may be able to do this one day, and practice can get you there.' I grew up think that if something felt hard, it meant i was physically or mentally incapable of the feat. I'm dyslexic, so i thought that meant i COULDN'T read, not that i had difficulties, because the two were one and the same to me. My mother made this worse with her attitude that we had to find a cure for me, to fix me. She believed if you struggled, it meant you couldn't and therefore needed fixing. So the whole 'you can do it, just believe in yourself ' message, while unrealistic, i think was meant for folks like me, although my perception of my own abilities were deeply skewed in a way that doesn't make this mantra generally applicable. It's better to tell kids they can slowly improve through practice, or when it comes to health and ability, that they can learn and adapt and they're gonna have to keep going. Physical therapy sucks and is painful, and you'll feel bad throughout, but improving overtime in healthy ways is worth it. Keeping that in mind is so hard, and the right encouragement is hard to come up with, especially when you have a frustrated disabled kid or teen who just wants to feel normal or not hurt. Realizing years that i can do simple things i convincee myself i could not is strange, and makes me realize we should tell kids they're capable of many things over time. Not everything, but many.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

I am both angry and sad that your mom led your thinking about your own abilities so badly astray. Bad parenting sucks (ask me how I know IF you want to read a sad novel). * solidarity fist bump *

[@cathycat4989]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 sure, go ahead and let it out.

[@Sam-h1e9v]

Not to mention he was on a sport team, he should know the importance of strategy in a match!

[@ioppisheliolisk]

I’ve been told this so many times, even by other disabled people. I wish people would just accept that there are things we can’t do, and that they didn’t pretend to understand our bodies better than we do.

[@Adam-326]

Starfire and Raven can actually spot Cyborg. He’s actually less human than non-cybernetic humans, but in a world with other sentient creatures like Starfire and Raven etc, it doesn’t really matter.

[@shipper-of-heart8898]

Beast Boy could also transform into an animal that can lift heavy things

[@NesInDoubt]

you are aware that calling cyborg "less human" because he has cybernetic prosthetics is supremely ableist right??

[@masetheface]

using "sentient creatures" to describe Starfire and Raven is wilddddd 💀

[@Adam-326]

@@masetheface Well, that’s what they are. Raven is only half human and Starfire is 100% Tamaranean. That’s not to mention all the other characters that show up here and there. The point is that there are a lot of beings in Teen Titans that display levels of sentience/intelligence that are at least on par with our own.

[@Adam-326]

@@NesInDoubt “Ableist” or not, he *is* less human than normal humans.

[@brookgordon6961]

When I was little I would push myself allot. I was a tomboy and didn't want the boys to see me as less than them. I got hurt allot. On the plus side I learned my limits. My daughter is autistic and stiff joints. Her dad wanted to push her to hard. I wouldn't let him. She finally learned to walk on her own at 2yr 7months. She 9 and running jumping and having fun.

[@benceszilagyi8442]

Interesting. Not so long ago, I saw a video which highlighted this as a good Cyborg episode. There, it was praised because a character overcome his limitation... Hard to decide, but here's my takaway from both. I'm not a disabled person, but I had temporary injuries, so I familiar with short term restrictions. I don't want to say, these are the same, because it's only somewhat similar at best. My point is; if you are in a position which allowes you to lay back and say "it won't be better", it's easy to give in for the temptation. However, I also met situations, when I pushed to the limit and failed to succes. There are plenti of both of these situations. So, as a mixture; I hope everybody -person with disbility or without - could find their limit, get to know it, and wish to them to excede it, when they need to or want to, but I also hope that those, who reached their limit have somebody who cares for them not to get hurt and helps them out without devaluation of their capability

[@sierakelley4705]

My gym friend trying to teach me how to do my first bench press. My arms are noodles, so I was afraid to even un-rack the bar even though he was spotting me. I un-rack the bar get the bar down to my chest and get it up two inches before calling it. I panicked when I wasn’t getting the bar up fast enough 😅

[@klikkolee]

Able people often use "can't" language to refer to skills they haven't learned, especially when it's a skill they lost motivation to continue learning. I have to wonder if this contributes to the disbelief when a disabled person uses that language with its plain meaning.

[@morningstarcollective4671]

Oh gods I remember this episode. It definitely impacted how I treated myself for years. Bleh.

[@cartoonfanatic]

This episode isn't trying to harm or demonize disability. I think certain people may be looking too hard into it. Really the episode is more about how believing in yourself is the first step to self improvement, rather than just saying trying harder will get everything done all the time.

[@TaliEpshtein]

Nimona next, please if you find it any good! Lots of themes I think you’d enjoy discussing or even just experiencing!

[@dinam3236]

I wouldn't mind more dog tangents. ^_^

[@kiwikarp9509]

This was an eye opener. 1st time I saw this one, I really liked it as an episode. Never noticed the harmful implications behind using Cyborg for a "never give up" message.

[@quiestinliteris]

"You can do anything if you put your mind to it" can work perfectly well if you interpret it as "figure it out" rather than "just willpower your way through it." But they NEVER do that. Cyborg could have "put his mind to it" by modifying his prosthetics, hunting for some new technobabble power source, or as you mentioned, taking the role of planner rather than tank. He could have explored flexibility rather than just... doing the same thing but MORE. It's such a bad lesson even for abled kids. When you realize something is impossible but it still MUST be done, you have to focus on alternate ways to get to the goal, not focus harder on one faulty means of getting to that goal. (And "get someone else's help" is a supremely valid alternate means.)

[@WonderfulAkari]

Giving 110% at work is why I have injured a ton of joints and tendons in my body dispite not having any diseases affecting my connective tissues. Also I have fibromyalgia which might have be subverted if I lowered my exertion during a three month bout of bronchitis.

[@kimeraclan3135]

I never really thought of these Cyborg episodes like this, so it makes me wonder. But one positive, I think, of the Atlas vs Cyborg episode was Robin convincing the Mechanic to ditch Atlas. His pep talk about how Atlas bullies the Mechanic into doing his bidding, how the Mechanic held all the power without even realizing it, holds true for bullying. It's a tangent to the video, I know, but worth pointing out. It quasi-redeems Robin, and it teaches how leaving a toxic relationship requires a network of friends. So yeah, not much to add for the disability representation. Still great to hear more about it when I can't really relate.

[@cartoonfanatic]

It's a different perspective, but I do think the person may be reading a bit too deep into it. Also the episode isn't really harmful for people to disabilities IMO