The WORST Parts Of The BEST JRPGs - Part 2!

[@davidvinc]

Want more? Come and follow me on twitch www.twitch.tv/davidvincstreams or check out my discord! discord.gg/NWUFCtmpfr

[@frankieseward8667]

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Lorithia.

[@jacklynfrost93]

You should make these videos their own playlist so that they are easier to find :)

[@agustinpestoni6256]

"There's no reward for doing the Cloisters or Trials" Anima: Am I a joke to you?

[@Adam-zw1ck]

🤣🤣🤣

[@PAINNN666]

Yes

[@Berek71182]

It's a mystery for me how people can dislike the cloisters, the spherotable and Blitzball (FF10 = bad) while forgetting about the endless barrage of shitty mini-games and the chocobo-hunt in FF7 (FF7=good, because edgy) that cannot be skipped.

[@PAINNN666]

@@Berek71182 1.last 2 cloisters is pain. 2. Many people are just d umb and aaaaa what is this? i'm confused. 3.Many people doesn't like sport games.

[@michael_nosir]

The Great Crystal in FF 12 is pretty brutal : no map, strong ennemies, rooms all looking the same AND you have to do it twice for 100% !

[@VileSyndicxte]

I came here to say this. The Great Crystal seems like the Final Fantasy equivalent of living in hell.

[@woodwart]

Yeah the great crystal is really awful and should have been number 1 on this list. Actually all of ffxii is frustrating in general getting the ultimate items for the game. I mean just to get something as basic as hastega or even the break techniques requires so so much work, not to mention the RNG bs for getting treasures. Worst part of the game for sure. The Pharos is pretty awful too. I mean it’s a tower with amazing views, but you see absolutely nothing outside the entire time you’re going up and just samey same brick interior and enemies.

[@ace-trainer-aj]

The first time is pretty linear, just go to the way stones with lower numbers. But the second one is a pure undistilled nightmare even for someone whose sense of direction is as good as mine.

[@Dedric_Price]

This is the only time I've ever actually needed a strategy guide to figure out what to do. Whoever designed this dungeon is a monster

[@emmychansuper]

When I played it the first time on my PS2, it was living hell to get through with it. But when I came back to it on The Zodiac Age, I googled up a really good map that helped me out.

[@tomderry7295]

The gummy ship part of Kingdom Hearts. Pointless travel

[@asilver50]

Plus is feels like I can't actually hit anything when I'm shooting.

[@mark902]

it's so much fun in kingdom hearts 2 though. it got me thinking that nintendo should get square make the next starfox.

[@michael_nosir]

Agree with you, but I gotta admit the game redeemed itself in KH 3 (don't throw rocks,at me ahah)

[@GymnopedieTornado]

for me it’s wonderland in kh. I can’t stand it

[@DaakkuuYRS]

The gummy ship is terrible in KH1 It is okay in KH2 And actually really fun in KH3

[@kyleward3914]

The 3DS version of Dragon Quest VII shortens the introduction a bit and gets you into the action a little quicker, though it's still a pretty long opening sequence.

[@Nebocsid]

I did not like what they did to the city you recruit residents for in the 3DS version. I actually enjoyed creating the church, casino, etc. on the ps1 version. The 3DS seems so tailor made for that sort of thing but they changed it.

[@jamesoneavatar8644]

The Laguna sequences actually unlock rewards, if played correctly. You also meet some of the characters in them, so they add more story. I do hate the junction problems, though

[@jonathanabgrall6075]

It doesn't even mess with Junction, each of the character is tied to the junction of one of the main characters. Laguna is Squall for sure, for the other 2 i don't remember on top of my head but i think Kiros is Selphie and Ward is Quistis.

[@funnicabbagecop6759]

@@jonathanabgrall6075 Ward is Zell

[@jonathanabgrall6075]

@@funnicabbagecop6759 oh yeah, its just a bit solly the way they are assigned, you'd think they'd tie Zell with Kiros. They're both good melee fighters (Kiros' limit is actually good). But whatever, can be easily fixed swapping whole setups around. Also none of the Laguna sequences have particularily difficult fights that i can remember anyway.

[@michael_nosir]

Yeah the junction system kills the fun of grinding (yes I do love a bit of grinding in my rpg, makes me catch up in my favorite series or streams :)

[@jesseherman5540]

@@funnicabbagecop6759 not true in the second dream as quistis is ward in that one. That dream in particular is bad since the game doesn't do anything to encourage you to junction switch all your best spells to selphie and quistis before the dream. Which can very well leave newer players with a pathetic Kiros' and Ward.

[@ThePigKnight]

The Intro to Persona 3-5. You’d think they’d learn that you want at least a smidge of gameplay in the first four hours of the game.

[@alonzo9772]

Yes! The beginning of the Persona games will always be annoying. So much character and plot development. I got stuff to do. I don't have time for an hour of dialogue. 😆

[@WhiteFangofWar]

5 is a bit better about this though, starting you off in an action sequence and dumping you into Kamoshida's Palace before you even start your first school day.

[@FlyinTonite]

I think Golden handled it well, if only because I think the characters are just so damn likeable.

[@Adam-zw1ck]

@@alonzo9772 perfectly sums it up "so much character development and plot" lmao. You all should play another genre of game 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

[@xRocketzFighterx]

I believe having characters go through an emotional phase that can affect their performance in game like with Garnet/Dagger/Sa(spoilers) is a good thing. It's an unexpected difficulty handicap that you have to deal with, like in real life you could be the most nicest guy or physically capable, then one time something can happen and then you're physically useless to do jobs or help others. It feels like an extra bit of depth to make characters more relateable because in real life you wouldn't be instantly ready to fight everything that comes your way not after some tragic events happened to you. In FF9 the only part I can't stand is where you go to the village and see all the genomes, it does give context to kuja and zidane's origins but the folks and area is very boring to me so I just start mashing buttons to get through all the dialogue dump in that area. Plus final fantasy 9 has tons of bizzare and unique furry characters so I would've been fine without this place and I'd believe zidane came from one of those normal ciitizens.

[@ultraness]

It's a good way of having the story affect gameplay. It's one thing for the story to say that a character is having trouble focusing. It's something else when the player experiences the character's troubles when she randomly fails to do a basic action in battle. Even so, I can understand dreading the part when Garnet loses effectiveness, all the same. Just because a mechanic elevates the story does not mean it's fun.

[@mimmikibilly]

I feel like the dialogue and sequence in Terra was too short and came a bit out of nowhere. If they stretched it out a bit the amount of dialogue might have felt less daunting. At the same time I understand the weight of the dialogue in this situation: if I was Zidane I would crave a ton of info all at once because I basically have arrived at my birthplace and I could get so many answers but the time is short.

[@Adam-zw1ck]

TLDR

[@JamesShow]

This. Is. The shit. See, we hear over and over how great every great game is all the time. So maybe you LOVED the story but there are times where the gameplay sucks and you gotta put up with it. Awesome!

[@raidramon0]

A sequence I dread is The Frontier in Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete. Be wary of spoilers. First off, Nash betrays your party and leaves with Royce to The Frontier. Therefore, you need to find a replacement engine and the only one that can cut the mustard is the one used for the blimp you used to travel to the Red Dragon Cave and back. Not to mention you're one party member short. If you don't talk to the right person, you'll have to pony up I think 30000 silver. And before going there, make sure you're well-stocked with supplies because there are no shops there and you can't leave until you complete Ruid. You can't leave on the airship and you can't use the White Dragon Wings to travel, due to Althena's magic unable to reach this desolate wasteland. And there's the whole feeling of desolation as you walk through this place. I was definitely glad to get past it.

[@paolomartizzi164]

The cloisters of trial 😭 I really hate the one in Bevelle. I never enjoyed the Laguna sequences too.

[@InsanityForce]

I actually liked most cloisters of trials, but the one in Bevelle is a real pain.

[@karsten69]

I love the Besaid trial from a story perspective, you're an intruder and so you have to be tested, first time you're playing, you don't know that you have to go through it each time, you might think that summoners get a pass, after all, they are the only way to defeat Sin. and then it makes sense in the story later, when you've been branded a heretic.

[@paolomartizzi164]

@@karsten69 Yeah I think that Besaid's one may be ok as part of the story. The one after Seymour battle is breaking the story in one of the best moments.

[@karsten69]

@@paolomartizzi164All you would have to do to make sense of them, is make Kilika and Djose's trials optional, have the priest at the entrance give you the option of attempting the trial, but not story mandatory. and then just tweak the order of events at Macalania, so you're branded as heretics before attempting the trial.

[@Adam-zw1ck]

@@paolomartizzi164 lmao not smart enough for the puzzles huh?

[@ace-trainer-aj]

3:22 About that, the first trial at least has an excuse of being a tutorial and is very linear... But the others... Hoo boy! They are a plot momentum killer when I want to kill fiends, advance the plot and all that yadada. But imo, the real plot momentum killer of that game is the entire Luca sequence until immediately after the Blitzball tournament.

[@serenavox5540]

I enjoy that part a lot!! I don’t like the blitzball matches but it does immerse you in the world of Spira. It’s their favourite past time.

[@alkristopher]

Yep! I made a save right after the three-hour introduction of Valkyrie Profile (on Normal AND Hard difficulties) just so I wouldn't have to play through those parts. I fully relate and condone your actions. 1: The first Metatron fight in Star Ocean 2. A LOT of dialogue before the fight, then a fight that you cannot win (and must not die in or you have to go through that dialogue again), then MORE dialogue, then cutscene after merciless cutscene, then MORE cutscenes and dialogue until FINALLY the game picks back up. Have pity, Enix. 2: Lezard Valeth's friggin tower in Valkyrie Profile. Loooooooong cutscenes before you get in, a huge maze with ferocious enemies, very sparse save points (I think there's only two?), extremely confusing process to get the hidden transmutation treasures, the music is stress-inducing...I dread it every time I play this game. At least the boss is a pushover. 3: Finally, any time where your entire party is arbitrarily taken away, forcing you to do everything solo for goodness knows how long.

[@SBaby]

7:35 - This is another situation where I don't mind the intro as much as other people do. First of all, it really does a lot for world building and giving you the utter feeling of being isolated as there is literally nothing else in the world other than your island until the main game gets underway. Second, it's not anywhere near as long of a sequence as people make it out to be. It isn't anywhere close to the level of Suikoden V's intro, and the whole sequence can be completed in under an hour without missing any collectibles once you know what to do. Honestly, the intro of Kingdom Hearts II is longer than the intro of this game.

[@tonberryqueen5217]

Such a shame the laguna sequences has the best ff battle theme imo

[@michaelquigley2121]

I love FF3 (especially the DS version) but I'm surprised I don't see anyone mentioning the dungeons that force you to use mini

[@AquaSoley]

Came here for this. Straight up made me quit the first time.

[@tahamohammad8842]

That’s probably because everyone is more concerned about FF3’s shit endgame

[@michaelquigley2121]

@@tahamohammad8842 Huh, I don't remember FF3's endgame being bad. Except for the fact that you can't save before 6 hours of dungeons...

[@tahamohammad8842]

@@michaelquigley2121 yeah 6 hours worth of dungeons, with a massive difficulty spike that pretty much necessitates the use of the optional ninja and sage jobs. Then there’s the fact that cloud of darkness is a horrible final boss which spams flare wave meaning the boss is incredibly boring as it only has that one attack. Then there’s just how long it is, as you said it’s 6 hours with no save point meaning if you die you gotta start the entire thing over again. I think I’ve explained why most people hate the crystal tower

[@michaelquigley2121]

@@tahamohammad8842 I agree with most of that, but I don't think ninja and sage were necessary, I almost never use them in any of my playthroughs. I just find the endgame super fun. Eureka is super cool, I love getting all the special weapons. compared to FF1 and FF2, FF3 was the first game to really have a substantial endgame at all.

[@TimBitten]

Do the cutscenes in Trails of Cold Steel not go on so long they make *anyone* else wanna tear out their eyeballs?? I know you can skip them, but damn it, I wanna see the plot! Just not TWO HOURS OF INANE YAMMERING ABOUT PORRIDGE RECIPES. 🥣 Edit: and I swear to god if I had to hear “MY TURN!!! It’s MY turn!” One. More. Time…I was gonna scream. Whoever decided to make them say that every time they take any action, and not give an option to turn it off, is a demon.

[@georgielockhart6686]

I was wracking my brain last night after watching your video on this topic and I know now what part it is for me (havent't watched this video yet) For me it is in Star Ocean 2, upon arriving on Energy Nede after meeting with Noel and getting your airship/Synard. You then have to finish those 4 field dungeons in any order without any story beats happening, between is a freaking drag because they are all hard and there is no reward til all four are down..I've stopped playing at this part a few times. Not on purpose but just hating it so much that I play other things until I completely move on.

[@almightycinder]

I hated everything in that game after the Wisemen were introduced.

[@edfmed1080]

Call me crazy but i like the trials in FFX, but i can understand why people dislike them

[@astevens1919]

Sameeee. I love puzzle elements in video games

[@georgielockhart6686]

I like them too, as a kid a cloister of trails meant a.new aeon. Also I had even more fun doing them over trying to get all destructions spheres because I wanted Anima. And that song that plays too is amazing.

[@pauljones327]

Yeah especially with destruction sphere hidden loot mechanics also the Abuja cloister is simplicity itself as is yojimbo

[@churrascovoltorbgaming9453]

Agreed. But the one for Bahamut (I think) was awful. With those one way transport platforms that would send you careening off of the map only to start again. That was a nightmare.

[@stevestewart5460]

I loved the cloisters also. Gives a nice puzzle break to mix things up a bit.

[@bpick05]

I'm surprised you didn't list all of Chrono Cross.

[@EdreesesPieces]

He listed 75% of it because that's how much of it you play as Lynx. Game is about 30 hrs of Lynx and 10 hours of Serge

[@ethanhunt3242]

The roughly 70 hours from first putting the disc into the tray all the way to the end credits is my least favorite sequence in Chrono Cross. Lovely soundtrack though.

[@bpick05]

@@ethanhunt3242 Wow. There is a lot of hate for Chrono Cross. I still claim it is a great and fun game.

[@ethanhunt3242]

@@bpick05 Id say Im in the group of RPG fans that MAY have been more receptive to Chrono Cross if it was its own thing and not a sequel to Chrono Trigger. Making it a sequel to CT meant it came with certain expectations that I dont feel it came close to achieving… but it’s ok to disagree on things I like a lot of things other people dont lol

[@bpick05]

@@ethanhunt3242 Too true. Any followup to one of the greatest games ever made was doomed to failure, especially when that sequel was not the game's original intention.

[@duranplays]

You should do the top 10 betrayals in jrpg

[@raina1848]

Get Alvin from Tales of Xillia and he can fill a good part of that list just by himself.

[@daoswarrior2033]

Many Tales series characters can fill that list, Alvin is not the only one to play the traitor role in a Tales game.

[@SwayRod836]

Agree with you on the Lynx sequence in Chrono Cross. The game was bad enough as it was but then you become someone the world perceives of as a villain and the way you get your friends back is to track them all down and then they see the "sparkle in your eye" and know it's you. WHAT. Disagree on the Laguna sequences in FFVIII. I liked those parts, Man with the Machine Gun is a kick ass song and spoiler alerts: when you find out later on that Laguna becomes president of Esthar AND he's Squall's father in all makes sense.

[@kahemingway88]

Also, I completely agree with you on Final Fantasy IX's third disc. My personal pick for the worst section of the game is the Frog Cid minigame in Kuja's palace. That entire sequence is just painfully bad.

[@paolomartizzi164]

Oeilvert is much worse in my opinion 😢

[@mimmikibilly]

I love taht minigame, it's so silly XD

[@fancywaffles]

I feel like the introductory sections for many rpgs just don't hold up under repeat playthroughs. The world building and character intros are great the first time, but you just wanna start exploring on any subsequent playthrough. I don't know why I've never thought of keeping a save once the good stuff starts! Heh. Genius. And I love the Laguna sections in 8, but then I love that game so...having to futz around with your GF config after is a pain though.

[@JosephJohnson-gu5fw]

I enjoy the Laguna sequences more as an adult........because I understand how it fits into the story now. I also think Laguna gets a better arc than squall does.

[@justinc882]

I feel like FF6 had the perfect balance. There's a brief convo, then introduction credits, then action set, then bang you're right in the game. There's very little wasted to start that game.

[@ddiguh]

Love your channel! I have a suggestion for you David: top 10 unexpected rpg difficult spikes and top 10 unexpected difficult spike on rpg mandatory bosses.

[@yunafinder4824]

It's sad that I did find your channel the first time this year because your content is great. I totally get what you mean with the Laguna dreams and for some part I agree. It is pretty crap that the junctionings gone lost in that sections. On the other hand storywise they are not unimportant in my opinion. Sure they appear pretty weird especially in the beginning. I find it kind nice that the second dream did affect your exploration in the lunatic pandora later for two items. The reason itself that Squall see what Laguna goes through is actually good. He saw what his father who he never met until pretty late in the story was going through. Sure it is not that impactful on the main story but in my opinion very much for the story so that squall could see his parents even not through his own eyes. Maybe it's just that I find background stories like that interesting and yeah I really like the game a lot because it was my first Final Fantasy and will always be special for me

[@javib2978]

The worst video games sequences I hate are. The first-person dungeon crawler travel, not knowing which route to choose when selecting the dialogue choices, and the infamous brutal difficulty in Shin Megami Tensei games. While the persona games are hard, but fair and balanced. Shin Megami Tensei on the hand, are instead complex and hard for the sake of being hardcore.

[@karsten69]

Top 10 MOST HATED Sequences in JRPGs Part 3 Ni no Kuni 2: Revenant Kingdom - The forced army battles. twice in the game you have to use an army to progress the plot, and the most irritating thing is that your army units don't level up alongside your main cast, so if you haven't done skirmish battles alongside sidequests, you're now stuck grinding 15 levels for your army, and 25 levels the second time around. completely killing the story pacing. all of this would be solved if they were given just 10% of your party's exp gain.

[@unknown000001000]

Training Beyd isn't actually too bad if you take the right approach. Bare minimum, if you up his defense by about 30 points, Zig with have a hard time scratching him and if you up it to 50, even Zig's lucky strikes can be shrugged off. Getting Beyd's defense up that high is easy (1-2 sessions) if you have backhand and use healing spells. :3

[@FirstLast-yc9lq]

Yeah, this basically comes with the territory with a lot of older JRPGs (newer ones as well sometimes) I think developers/writers at the time were struggling to to fit JRPG gameplay, story, and length together just right so you ended up with a lot of padding. You're seeing this happen a lot in open world games now and I can't wait until we get beyond that.

[@muffinboymcgee7411]

I dunno, the Laguna segments were the only part of FF8 I could even begin to tolerate. They were always welcome breaks from the interminable teen wangsting of Squall and his obnoxious friends.

[@PkmariO64]

Super Mario RPG is my second favourite game, right after EarthBound, and I love most of the game. But there’s one section that I absolutely despise, near the very end, which prevented me from beating it for the longest time. What I’m referring to are the six doors that appear upon returning to Bowser’s Keep, of which you must complete four to proceed. I always hated the mini games, both because they’re incredibly tedious and incredibly pointless. Not only that, but several of the doors have the final weapons for several of the characters, that you can’t find anywhere else in the game. Thankfully, this section is done and over with quickly enough, but it sure as hell isn’t painless.

[@JohnsonJJohnson33]

I never thought you do the Lynx sequence in CC. Literally the hardest gatekeeping boss for NO REASON. I remember being really mad in highschool fighting that boss

[@brendangoodell6233]

In Chrono Cross if you don't get TurnWhite, the Lynx segment can be really annoying. Though I do like the alternate cast and the challenge going though the Lynx part anyway so it was fun for me, Miguel included, the first boss that actually challenged me in that game. I was actually kinda annoyed we couldn't recruit him, that would have been awesome! When I first played through the game I saw the character had a portrait and kinda defaulted to WE CAN GET LIGHTSABER DUDE! But unfort not. Having Harle during that time was really cool too so you get different perspective. FFX I personally really don't like, to me it doesn't feel like FF. Maybe its just me.

[@davidtimmer596]

The frequent explorations of the Old Schoolhouse from Trails of Cold Steel 1. I can deal with it on occasion, and I know that in the end you get Valimar, who makes the explorations somewhat worth it in the end, but after awhile, it becomes rather tedious and repetitive. And the boss against the Shadow Valimar was one of the most annoying bosses, because it's basically the Nosferatu at Lohengrin Castle 2.0. As much as the Nord Highlands bored me with the vastness, at least the plot moved forward somewhat and you do get to know more about Gaius and Alisa, and you only go there once. Also, Turbo mode makes it more bearable.

[@Ubu90]

its like everyone ignores turbo mode

[@SomeRPGFan]

Yeah, I didn't like the Old Schoolhouse either or the dungeon that replaced it in later games (forgot it name). I was always impatient to get through that and back to the actual story.

[@davidtimmer596]

@@SomeRPGFan Einhel Keep? Though, I will say, Saint-Gral Labyrinth is the best "School" dungeon, because you only need to trek through it once, and going back there's completely optional.

[@mochamadcorysaktitriwangsa1398]

Honestly I find old school house is just better tartarus.

[@davidtimmer596]

@@SomeRPGFan I definitely loved the shrines in the second game as well, especially in the depths where you can just listen to the Holy Saint Aria. Which is something I can definitely picture Vita singing.

[@MiamiSunrise]

ha yes, The Cloister of Trials is exactly as you described. Spending an hour or more possibly dicking around in some weird puzzle that you only wish would end. in BOF3 Beyd and the rope challenge with Garr were definitely not fun haha, I didnt mind the fishing in BOF 3 and frankly, most of everything else I fully enjoyed but I def had some gripes with those minigames too. This is a great list. Its no wonder you included LONG introductions since they really smash a games ability to get going if they do a ton of building and they never seem to end. See you on Twitch!

[@davidvinc]

Thanks man! See you there!

[@DanielVasquez-rr2fn]

Its not a lengthy sequence, but I always cringe during Persona 5 when they decided to make the only gay characters straight up predators

[@skeevy_nyx]

The homophobia in modern Persona games is so baffling--especially considering in Persona 2: Innocent Sin (spoilers), you can choose to reciprocate the feelings of your male friend towards the end, and they get this cute little united demon recruitment where they both hold up the precious watch and lighter they traded each other as kids, and Jun says something like, "Tatsuya... I'll always be by your side." According to interviews with the creators, if there is a canon pairing, it's that one... then Persona 4 rolls around and Kanji and Naoto are completely mishandled to the point of queerbaiting--and in Persona 5 your MC winces at the idea of being mistaken for a couple with Yusuke while out on the swan boat, and like you said these two guys who are just a cocktail of stereotypes literally drag off a high school boy to do god-knows-what to him... Great job modern Persona 👍😒 I mean--it's not like we're really *owed* representation from JRPGs... but like why you gotta make it homophobic? 😂

[@xRocketzFighterx]

4th and 5th Kalpa in shin megami tensei nocturne and later areas of shining in the darkness are personally sections of the game I get a bit miffed at. at these points the games start having more cursed rooms/floors, event strong battles that aren't random encounters, some very cryptic doors to pass that will kill your allies if you present the wrong party member, loads of trap floors, fake walls, you have to do alot of map drawing in your head or on paper (or use the internet if you're lazy). SMT nocturne has very hard hitting encounters, troll doors n traps that will force you back. Also in Shining in the darkness, to get the best weapon in the game it's for the Cleric. You need a demon rod or learn the spell Muddle 3 (very late game spell) and go to one of the late game areas, fight some golems, unequip all your armour n weapons and use the demon rod to confuse all enemies and your entire party or use muddle 3 to confuse only the enemy team and wait and wait and wait untill one of them drops some treasure which is the ultimate weapon for the cleric Milo which is way better than the main hero's ultimate weapon. (this weapon isn't mandatory but this game has alot of bat shit whacky exploring you have to do to beat the game. Infact there is a pretty tough challenge where you can beat the game with all guest party members and you have to be careful not to trigger certain events to lose em.

[@jaimereupert4247]

5:30 I wish you could've unlocked Lynx as a playable character. Would've been nice to see him and Sert fighting side by side. 😮

[@tjcombomofo]

I loved powering Beyd!! I made a save file just for powering him up!! He is impossible to beat and he one shots everybody, including all dragon forms.

[@derrickhaggard]

As a huge Golden Sun fan I have to say it even though I don't want to that whole sequence after Sevta leaves your party for a short while in Dark Dawn uh I hated that sequence so bad mostly because I was now dealing with random encounters that were way harder then they should've been due to not having the group's healer and yes Sevta despite being a Jupiter Adept, and a physical tank is also the group's main healer and learns most of the game's healing spells, including the best one, so yeah that whole sequence with her being absent was a chore.

[@alyssabrown3145]

Oh my gosh. In Ni No Kuni, there is a sequence where you have to hide from pig guards in a specific way, but the hiding spots suck, and you have to position Oliver just so, or you have to start all over again!! Super annoying.

[@rudyelliott5857]

I hate all forced stealth sequences in games. Especially open world games that generally let you play however you want and then all of a sudden want to force you to play one way to progress through a section of the story. Why take away the options you’ve allowed the player to use throughout the rest of your game?

[@Crocogator]

Getting Serge back (as vague as I can be) in Chrono Cross is a huge drag. It does involve the hardest boss in the game, though, but getting to that point is pain. EDIT: This is what I get for commenting first.

[@yordlop]

Stoked to see a sequel of this! You rock, David. The one that comes to mind for me is from one of my favorites, Tales of Symphonia, when you need to backtrack through most of the dungeons to get the summon spirits. So boring, and it takes hours! Speaking of Tales games, Tales of Phantasia, collecting the basilisk scales... which I'm surprised hasn't made it to your lists yet.

[@MrNobo15]

Ff8's drawing sequences all suck. Especially if the enemy happens to have super rare spells like Aura or Ultima. Then the pain is dragged out even further by only being able to draw 3-5 spells at a time 🙄

[@CynicalGamingBlogTerry309]

Thanks for warning me about the minigames in BOF3, I just started playing that game and I already have PTSD from Grandia 2's Arm Wrestling & Nut Grabbing minigame.

[@mullimeister904]

David the way you described #4 was so good I HATE that part and have never played it! Love the content. Oh and screw the cloister of trials 😃

[@Penguindude1]

There's a major section from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door that would qualify. Finding General White. Imagine backtracking through every area in the game (which at this point, is Chapter 7 of 8), only just missing the guy whenever you get to the spot the characters hint at, only to end up coming back to the starting point, and figuring out you were pretty much sent on a wild goose chase. And even when you do find General White, he's out like a light, so you need to jump on him to wake him up. About 25 or so times. Eventually (and I mean EVENTUALLY) when you wake him up, you can finally move on with the story. Granted Chapter 4 also has a bad case of backtracking, but I'd say this is worse.

[@redstratus97]

Yeah I did a guide for the trials in FFX. Really helped me enjoy that game a ton more and probably why I like it so much. But yes without a guide those trials would have been rough to get through.

[@dizzy900]

HARD Agree on the Cloisters. Although the biggest momentum killer in that game for me was the mandatory blitzball game that's pretty much rigged against you. So frustrating!

[@bentanner4192]

Thanks for putting the second half of Bravely Default on the list, now I can finally sleep at night 😌

[@SethAlden1]

Completely agree with the start of Disk 3 of FFIX, its the furtherest I've ever gotten in that game and its what stopped me. Hard disagree on Cloister of Trials, it (eventually) gives an amazing reward, and doesn't hold a candle to Bevelle in terms of a bad sequence. One of the hardest boss fights (Evrae), you lose Yuna who is a core party member for many first timers, Bevelle Temple and Via Purifico, and the whole bullshit of Seymore coming back. Yeah its got some amazing moments but I dread the notion of having to deal with that whole part. Also special mention to Mt Gagazet too, its not as bad as Bevelle but its up there.

[@lanegunnell1218]

This is the first vid I agree with everything! Damn, each time I want to go back to these games, the PTSD kicks in and they go back on the shelf. Would love a "skip segment" option in so many JRPGs.

[@raina1848]

Besides the Garnet problem in that whole FFIX sequence, I remember there was this mini-game in the desert palace with something about using a frog to get keys or something that was a total b***h for me. I remember I just kept failing at it so many times that it just gave up and let me win it eventually. I love Chrono Cross, but I'm glad you mentioned the Lynx sequence. Sure, he has got some cool techs like feral cats and forever zero, but I am just missing Glenn, Leena, Kid, and Guile! It feels like you don't get near enough really good allies for a long time there, and I'm jumping for joy by the time Riddel and Karsh are with you. And do not even get me started on the Dead Sea. Those freaky dead dancer girls (which look horribly like corpses of the dancer girls of the Moonlight Parade from Chrono Trigger) have a move to possibly even insta-death your whole party. And Miguel is pure evil. I end up using Harle's Moonshine to help there. It's not as bad as the evil that is Dario (seriously, f-k Dario), but it's bad enough that this seemingly innocent-looking little man in a hat can kick your you-know-what if you don't watch it like crazy.

[@membou]

Great list. I am a little perplexed by the mention of no rewards for finishing the cloisters of trials in FFX as you do get some rare items from completing optional objectives in them, but maybe you were talking about only the mandatory parts to continue the game. I liked some of the first ones myself, but the later game ones definitely could get tedious.

[@Zchef85]

Watching Garr dropping that rope brings back feelings of deep deep frustration.

[@0-Noony-0]

So many Square games on this list ..just 2 that ain't, BoF and Suikoden! 😅 Only 1 I agreed with you on ..the Bravely Default backtracking, hate jRPG's that do that

[@renanmalone742]

Man I hate the FFX cloisters of trials... I can't replay FFX, because just thinking that I would have to go through these parts again, I give up. Great video David👍

[@alonzo9772]

What about a top 10 different sequences that you love? For example, Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure. The blue frog being killed. I like that the game suddenly turned dark. It was a nice change in tone.

[@cmwaves]

4:07 That's not entirely true. If you get all of the hidden treasures, you can then unlock Anima, the best summon in the game. However if your playing the remaster and don't get the hidden treasure in Besaid's temple, you will have to fight Dark Valefor before even getting the chance to enter the temple. The same goes for some of the other temples.

[@Parallelepiped2]

Thanks for this list! Yes, that dog maze in Secret of Evermore is crazy. It is a bit of a downer to play as Lynx in Chrono Cross. I really enjoyed the DWVII intro. I just loved being able to move leisurely through the game and take my time with it.

[@javib2978]

I actually liked Final Fantasy 8. The dream sequences are giving me Fight Club flashbacks. Or the entire Phantom Pain scenario by konami to be clear.

[@Justin-nl9sn]

I LOVE Suikoden V but agree the opening sequence is way too long. My add-on for the list would be trying to any of the ultimate weapons in a FF game, but specifically the lightning dodging sequence in FFX. Omfg. 200 dodges and it resets with one hit. I fucking hated that and gave up.

[@dingliedangliedoodle9261]

I was already numb with David murdering Chrono Cross all the time, sometimes you don't even expect it when he drops in a mention on CC and it catches a stray shot, but I think imma go cry in a corner now after having experienced David bash Laguna's sequence also😭 They were the most bittersweet moments for me about a story of starcrossed romance destined with their children completing that connection.

[@jasonwinterboer5232]

I always enjoy sequences in games when my party is split up, it forces me to think outside the box and adapt, finding new ways to play the game and often making me better at it.

[@PowerPandaMods]

Totally agree on Bravely Default. I gave up at the first reset and decided to watch the rest on KZbin. And I STILL got bored. I remember shouting at my screen about 100 times, "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!"

[@AdamTheGameBoy]

I remember bitching to my gf who recommended it to me, but I realized you can power through the crystals on subsequent cycles if you try and turn encounters off, so it's not as bad as it seems... besides the button mashing mini-game getting exponentially more tedious each cycle. I'm surprised she could awaken the crystals, it was rough for me and I played Mario Party; I can consistently beat very hard CPUs in button mashing mini-games. The last cycle you have to mash for a few minutes straight

[@Vic_v._Gerdenheim]

On the topic of taking away party members, I really hate the ghost ship from Trials of Mana. But to be fair, they do let you choose which party members you want to keep.

[@quintussilenius4324]

Well, my most hated sequence in any jrpg is the one where a villain abducts one of your party members - usually the female lead - brainwashes her and makes her fight your party. It never works, it never contributes anything to the plot, and it is never written well, but for some reason even nowadays it keeps popping up.

[@lynxfresh5214]

@Maxie Plays RPGs Magnolia getting possessed in Bravely Second, Jade getting mind-controlled in DQXI and Kasumi being a tentacle puppet in P5R off the top of my head.

[@qactustick]

Hah, in FF4 the abduction and brainwashing happened to two separate characters! Rosa's abducted and Kain's brainwashed. The latter more than once!

[@quintussilenius4324]

@Maxie Plays RPGs aside from the ones already mentioned by other people, Tales of Vesperia does this, as does Trails of Cold Steel (although not with a major character), as does Chrono Cross, just to name a few. Also, SRW games do this all the damn time, which probably is the reason i'm so sick of this "shocking plot twist" (used to play them a lot)

[@adamclark8994]

@Maxie Plays RPGs Ah yeah, I remember that. I think it happened in Blue Dragon from what I remember but I could be wrong..

[@dale117]

If I might make a suggestion for part 3, you could include the first portion of Beyond the Beyond. It's a great game (developed by Camelot) but the entire time from the secret tunnels until you climb a magic bean stalk to talk to God (yes, that's a thing) one of your party members is cursed, and worst of all is because it's scripted, you can't get rid of it at a church, leaving your tank essentially useless as half of the time he's paralyzed in battle from the curse, and the other half he takes recoil damage for a decent sized chunk of the game.

[@RetroPerspective]

I loved the cloisters, they were mostly simple logic puzzles. I admit the Bahamut Cloister could be confusing because you had to keep riding moving platforms, but it was one of the simpler trials. You need two spheres and you're done, most of that cloister is optional treasure. Beyd was one of my favorite parts of Breath Of Fire III because his training is easy to exploit. Have him defend and only let Nina attack him. Eventually his Defense and HP will be so high even Ryu or Garr won't damage him much. My problem is how much time you need to take to do this. Pulling up water from the well with Garr was certainly annoying and the cube puzzle in Momo's tower isn't as bad as it looks, but it certainly could have been implemented in a less convoluted way.

[@ebonis]

What about the Law City Zenebatos in Legend of Dragoon, all that running around to get and change those laws just to get to the signet sphere, it can get tedious unless you already know what the wingly codes are, and even then it only means you don't need to hunt for them.

[@adamlong5692]

Thank you for calling out the Laguna sequences! I always hated those but they seem to get a pass because everyone loves Laguna for some reason and the battle theme is badass (only good thing about those sections)

[@oroontheheels]

I don’t mind loooong intros but Suikoden got me so confused. I was like “oooook but when will I play the game??” 😂

[@diverman467]

Shido's Palace in Persona 5. I blasted thru my second playthrough, then got to the mouse puzzles and completely lost interest for months 😅

[@lynxfresh5214]

Ditto!

[@daoswarrior2033]

Huh It was unexpected to say the least.

[@Dw7freak]

Dark Cloud 2, the second half of Mount Gundor. Similar to Dragon Quest 8's Evil Jessica sequence, you lose the ability to play as Monica for half the dungeon. As there's only 2 characters, though, it's much worse. Because of how certain weapons do better against certain monsters, Monica just tends to be the better character to use, so Max might just have a weak weapon. This part also tends to make you fight a ton of large enemies, so you'll probably just spam the Ridepod the entire stretch, assuming you've been upgrading it. Until you get to the final boss of the dungeon, you don't have access to Monica at all.

[@gargervon8697]

I can't believe I forgot to even factor in the Cloisters of Trials when I commented on the last video about this. My mind must have blocked it out 😅. Most FF games, I will weather boring/confusing areas to get on the other side of them myself, but in FFX (which I like a lot overall), while my brother and I were still living in the same house, I always had him do those portions. He actually really liked them, fortunately for me. Since he moved out...haven't played FFX once because I can't pawn them off on him anymore. 😆😆😆

[@weirdlycurlyplantstem8231]

I don't actually mind the Evil Jessuca section all that much since the other 3 hold their own pretty well... but what I hare about it is the XP disparity it creates. Jessica already had a hard enough time staying with everyone else because her level up requirements were higher, and her missing out on 8000+ XP doesn't help. As someone who likes to keep everyone at about the same level, this infuriates me.

[@fvm220]

I actually really liked the Cloister of Trials 😂

[@california236]

The dragon mines in Star Ocean: Til the End of Time. I love SOTET and want to play through it again, but the whole sequence makes me say no. The flute doors, the enemies and no breaks. Special mention goes to the entirety of FFXIII. After all it's one long continuous dungeon.

[@darkshot4424]

I strongly agree with the bravely default, and I wish you can just purify the crystal, or make it so you can go straight to the end, I love how the bosses have unique dialogue but I wish it got cut down as well.

[@daoswarrior2033]

All of Final fantasy XIII would be the top of this list. Way to linear and too slow. I can’t believe I’m saying this I just hate FFXIII.

[@Paul_McSeol]

Part 2? Happy bonus Friday episode. Thanks, David!

[@12Kitfisto]

Oh god... the job classes..... the part where you have to fight without your skills. i dread that part in DQ 7...

[@wiehe56]

I loath fishing mini-games in jrpg’s. It bores me and I feel it’s only there bc Japanese love fishing. You should do a video on great and shitty mini games.

[@serenavox5540]

To me, the Laguna sequences to me are actually the game’s saving grace I feel like. In these sequences, you unlock things for your main party in the full game. Assuming you take the time out to do them right. Including rights to craft some great equipment. If anything I hate the Timber section of FF8. But totally with you all the way on FF9 disc 3! So unnecessary!!! Throwing in my own: Kingdom Hearts 2 intro. Unnecessarily long and boring. It’s a great game but after you’ve seen it once, there’s no real need to see it again and it’s several hours long. It acts as a prologue and does help you understand the story. But again if you’ve seen it already, no actual point to doing it again!! Ugh! Needless to say I made a save file after this so if I ever go play it again, I’m good as gold!

[@KirA-up1ld]

EVERY damn map between towns and dungeons in Tales of Xillia 1,2, Zestiria and Berseria. What's the point of removing the World Map in a classical sense if the replacement are those huge, empty and boring screens filled with ennemies and maybe 2 or 3 consumables? The worse part is that they get bigger with every game but never more inspired. Please go back to World Maps or at least something less tedious like the areas in Graces

[@felipepereira214]

I totally agree with Lynx's part in Chrono Cross; keep up with the good work man!

[@GuyHeadset]

I would add either the first half of star ocean 3’s disc 1 (Long tutorial/beginning, easy fights, annoying dungeons like Airyglyph Aqueducts or Kirsla Training Grounds and pretty much stuck with 3 party members excluding Roger) or the last part of Disc 1 (fighting all the way to the Urssa lava cave only to be forced to walk all the way back to Airyglyph Aqueducts for a key item, then walk all the way back to the lava cave)

[@lebonk8081]

You forgot that you get items/gear for completeting the trials, and the final aeon. Edit: I should've said by completing the destruction sphere puzzles in each trial, you get gear/items. And access to the final aeon.

[@thepalalias]

I love your lists like this - keep the great stuff coming. :) FFVIII is a favorite of mine and I like those sequences but as usual I still appreciated hearing hearing why you didn’t.

[@kidzanarkand]

Lol you are so funny! And yes well I love FFX the cloisters of trials do indeed suck. I would also add Cloud’s stupid long flash back sequence in disk 2 of FFVII when he is at the bottom of the lifestream with Tifa

[@Dw7freak]

I have to highly disagree about Dragon Quest 7's intro. At least the original had puzzles and taught you that you should pay attention to what hints you find. In the remake, the puzzles were removed and you can ignore the hints because of all the handholding. The biggest example of this is the final puzzle where you have to put some decorative armor pieces on specific statues. There's a hint on the order somewhere in the place. In the original, without that hint, it's trial and error. In the remake, you can ignore the hint because the game won't let you place the wrong piece. Also, the armor isn't even in the shrine in the remake, it's in a completely removed shrine on the other side of the island. All the puzzles that teach you all the special interactions were just removed for a fetch quest.

[@witecatj6007]

Trouble with the Rat King in Evermore? He is like all bosses in the first 3 worlds in that he falls to the almighty power of the Crush formula. Crush makes pretty much everything trivial until you get to the final area and have unlimited ammo for the bazooka's strongest shell (it was a weird glitch, but it rocked!)

[@joshuarobinson1689]

That sequence in Bravely Default is the reason I never beat it. I redid everything once, then realized that the game wanted me to do it again, and I said "screw this, I'll do it later." I never came back and did it later.

[@ultraness]

Seemed like it changed from "Most dreaded" to "Most hated" in one video. Anyway, I don't really hate or dread some of these sequences. 9) I remember Garnet losing her mojo being annoying, although I probably wouldn't say I hate or dread that part. 7) I've only played through Final Fantasy X once, but I kind of like the Cloisters of Trials (and I think you're kind of cheating when you mention multiple parts of a game like this, but I digress). Honestly, the Cloisters are basically the type of change of pace that I think that Final Fantasy XIII was missing; they give me something different to do for 20-60 minutes, and I like that. If they'd had random encounters, I'd probably hate them, but they don't, so I don't mind them. 5) I definitely don't dread the Lynx portion of Chrono Cross. When I first played the game, I was pretty disturbed and bothered by the section, but, after going through the game several times, I like it quite a bit now. I find the story interesting, and I'd say that Lynx is better than Serge since the former has better Techs (although it doesn't matter much if you're playing on New Game+). I don't think that there are way more Black Element enemies than White Element ones (Miguel's Element is White, which favours Lynx, for example). 2) Not going to lie: the Laguna sequences are pretty much my favourite parts of Final Fantasy VIII. Laguna is a way better protagonist than Squall (not that this is much of an accomplishment), and I think he has way better chemistry with Kiros and Ward than any of the amnesiac idiots in the main cast do with each other. Also, the battle music becomes awesome, which is enough to make me not care about fighting some battles as Laguna. Besides, it's pretty easy to turn off random battles in Final Fantasy VIII, so I don't see it as much of an issue (you can unlock the ability to turn them off before the first Laguna sequence, even). On the other hand, I agree with you on your other choices, besides Secret of Evermore, which I've never played. 10) I don't care for losing Jessica, so I agree that this part is not the most fun, although I think that you oversell Jessica's value a bit (Angelo is a better backup healer, in my view). 6) Suikoden V's introduction is pretty bad. It's bad enough that there's no way I can think of the game as better than Suikoden II, not that I think there's much competition even if I exclude V's intro (I'd say that II has better graphics, music, combat, pacing, and story). Still, an intro is really bad if it stops me from even thinking of replaying a game. 4) Then, Bravely Default, with its horribly repetitive second half, manages something worse than Suikoden V's intro: that second half almost prevented me from finishing the game, which is a shame, since Bravely Default had been shaping up to be one of my new favourite RPGs. Oh well. 3) I'm not sure which intro is worse between Suikoden V's and Dragon Quest VII's. DQVII's is a lot more boring, while Suikoden V's is a lot longer. They're both bad, but I'd probably give the edge to Suikoden V, personally, since the 3DS remake of DQVII substantially streamlined the game's intro. 1) And I'll end this by trashing Breath of Fire III. The main things I remember from the game are hating the Lighthouse sequence and the Desert of Death. Perhaps both of those sections fall under the category of "dungeons" rather than "sequences," but I don't care. I'm sure that its mini-games are pretty awful, although I can't say I remember any of them. I'm never going to replay the game, as the section of Breath of Fire III that I dread most is the whole game because I hate pretty much all of it!

[@Eagleknight815]

OMG Hateful Flashbacks!! #9 - I laughed wayyyy too hard at your comment! #8 - F*ck that Maze!! I hate that damn place!! #7 - That whole game is a grind in my opinion. I havent and not willing to try it again anytime soon. #3 - Yeah.....I wished I still had that one. I would gladly play that intro to get my physical copy again...... #2 - Its the only reason why people play the game - The Man with the Machine Gun Rave Music (Starts Dancing) #1 - Give me minigames where I get kickass rewards!

[@kahemingway88]

One of my least favorite parts of the great Super Mario RPG was the sunken ship section. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the boss fights in the sunken ship, especially fighting 1-on-1 with Johnny, but getting to those boss fights was always such a slog for me.

[@almightycinder]

If you give Bowser the Work Pants, he can tank everything from Booster's Tower to the Sunken Ship, including the cake. Makes the entire sequence less stressful. He can even do the Johnny fight by himself as long as you let Mario get killed early on.

[@jamcalx]

The Laguna entry suprised my, because most people with the story was completely rewritin to be about him and not squall.

[@PissedGrunty]

I would be all for an FF8 Spinoff that shows what Laguna and pals did in the past, its more interesting than the present. But they are still rather pointless as is. They don't build up to anything in the end in the actual game.

[@jamcalx]

@@PissedGrunty true

[@nanoglitch6693]

I was JUST talking about the Lynx sequence a couple days ago lol. To make it even worse, they stick you with that obnoxious Harle. I ended up quitting CC at that part and I never played it again. Likewise, when I got to disc 2 of FF8 and saw that they were making me play Laguna again was where I quit playing that one too.

[@baronagony4767]

My dreaded sequences include the comsphere section of FF X-2 as it kills the action to play phone tag, the forest in Vagrants story, the neo ark in parasite Eve 2 because of the puzzles that are required to progress but have no useful clues as to how to solve them (i can't do them without a guide), and losing Aria in omega quintet because not only are you down a person but if you didn't get her friendship meter up to at least level 4 you're locked into the bad ending. Also that whole time in persona 5 when Morgana is mad at you is just tedious padding