Even the Borg Fear These Aliens...

[@OrangeRiver]

But the real question is, can they defeat Goku?

[@emperorkain7027]

lol no, not Goku. But, unsurprisingly, Vegeta yes.

[@waynekelly8489]

Who are the Saiyans of the Star Trek universe? Klingons? Does Worf get a zenkai boost after each fight?

[@angstony459]

@@waynekelly8489 The Pakleds.... They are shown to go beyond their limits throughout the franchise. lol

[@saiyansomething73]

You people are RIDICULUS!!! I could kill those three legged eyesores just by pissing on them!

[@cosmicquestion9184]

Hey Tyler, could you do a series about what would happen to Humanity if we really did make contact with various Star Trek aliens. Like what would happen if real life Humans encountered Vulcans, and then you could do another video about if it were Tellarites etc. You could make a lot of videos because there are so many, but then again most Trek aliens act the same. You're good at making these videos and I think it would turn out cool.

[@Nocturne05]

I think that the Undine are the "last man standing " after the death of their universe. Think about it, when the stars die out sentient species would struggle to find ways to survive. Moreover, those that find a way to survive would be targeted by other desperate species. This would explain why the Undine are so powerful, they had to survive the end of the universe and every other species. This also explains their moto, "the weak will perish. "

[@zadkiel242]

Not much of a motto if they were sent packing by a Federation science vessel.

[@patar3323]

But fluidic space is seemingly in an average state isn't it? No evidence it's at the end of it's life cycle, they're in no hurry to move to our universe, just exploring and determining if invasion is prudent

[@Nocturne05]

@@patar3323 No, no. I didn't mean that fluidic space is what naturally happens after the universe dies, but that it was artificially created by the Undine as a way to compensate for the lack of stars and other sources of energy. I don't know much about the composition of fluidic space, but since it is organic it stands to reason that it serves as some sort of fuel source for the Undine universe.

[@adamschneider868]

You are so close. So there is a theory that the multiple universes in the multi-verse live in their own bubbles that expand, vibrate and contract. When two universe bubbles touch each other they exchange material causing a new "big bang" which causes the bubble to contract and then start to expand again. These bubbles have to be inside some type of medium correct? why can't that medium be fluidic space? It checks out with your theory, instead of surviving the end of their universe they found a way to escape and live in the medium that contains all universes.

[@zadkiel242]

@@adamschneider868 Let's not try to shoehorn actual science into something that is more or less fantasy.

[@versebuchanan512]

I remember one of the novels clarifying that they were so gung-ho in their slug fest with the Borg, that their standard protocol was such that if anyone on their ships, at any time, issued a "Self destruct" order, the ship instantly blew with no countdown or take-backs. That's pretty hardcore.

[@tedwojtasik8781]

ARGHHHHH, why are you all so MEAN to me??? I hate you all and I hate this ship, in fact, I hope this ship just blows up!!! Damnit Zardoz, why did you ha...BOOM!

[@Jason75913]

@@tedwojtasik8781 🤣🤣

[@stuartwelch6432]

If I want to blow up my ship to cripple or destroy an enemy ship, why give them the chance to get away? It's like having a timer on a bomb that gives the "hero" the chance to disarm it? Or a gun with a delay between pulling the trigger and it firing? Altho, the early matchlocks (I think) had that delay, but it was just 1 second. Pull the trigger, count to 10, then it fires.

[@Pfromm007]

Thank God the Undine don't have cats that could jump onto consoles and end up pressing the self-destruct button.

[@jfbeam]

@@stuartwelch6432 Indeed. But many would like the chance to get away from the ship they've commanded to blow up.

[@youtubeviewer4472]

I like in Star Trek Online how the Undine are easier to spot in disguise than a Dominion changeling because Undine cannot resist talking about how weak they are and how much they are frightened of the mighty Undines.

[@izzieb]

Wait... But you're talking about it...

[@WitchDoctorLarry]

*looks nervously sweating at the emergency meeting button

[@natedaniels3655]

@@WitchDoctorLarry I saw him vent..

[@mattwilliamson9824]

So they're the Yiga from Legend of Zelda, got it.

[@GeorgeMonet]

And they all have the same voice actor.

[@The10thManRules]

Borg: resistance is futile. Undine: nah.

[@caomunistadoggo4129]

Undine: assimilation is futile

[@JimmyDoyel-by2cp]

Undine:"The weak shall perish!"

[@Random.Rebel.Lt.General]

Undine: hippity hoppity GET OFF MY PROPERTY

[@weqe2278]

Undine: So, why you like.... resisting then?!

[@kirinoikezawa44]

"Your Galaxy will be purged."

[@karlez7664]

My headcanon is as follows: Fluidic space is an living organism and 8472 are its immune system

[@kevenrdavenport108]

Species 8472 episodes were solid. Another great thing about Voyager is how they took from what they learned doing TNG and were able to make elaborate on such interesting concepts.

[@ma1ist]

isn't it wild that for such a long time people shit on Voyager for not doing enough of what you just said they did. i watched it as a kid and it got me into trek. an amazing addition to the franchise imo

[@a.e.jabbour5003]

@@ma1ist I absolutely LOVED (and still do!) "Voyager." I grew up in the 70s/80s, so I first the TOS and then got to experience TNG as it happened. But, I think if I had to pick a favorite series, I would have to go with "Voyager." :) And the 8472 eps were really well done, fascinating, and honestly? Creepy as heck. HA! And I agree that one of the series' best qualities was how it was able to take so many elements and build on them in such fascinating ways.

[@kregorovillupo3625]

I like Voyager too, but I disagree on this topic. I see the species 8472 as a cheap way to insert an overpowered villain of the week. And how to do that? "Let's make this new race eats borgs for breakfast"... sure, great idea. That's called power creep, it share the same "issue" of Dragon Balls villains. Evidence it was clearly an error is they got dismissed in a single episode with talking, it has no consequences or string attached, and never get refenced again ever if not in a couple throw away dialogue line. To be fair, many things during Voyager are never ever referenced again, it was one of it's weak point: little consequences, little growth around the crew after the initial assessment. I still have a place in my hearth for Voyager, it was the series that introduced me to Star Trek and I love it: being so away from familiar places, they could insert more imaginative things without stirring up too much canon, so what I think is it's weakness is by design and not an error, adapted for a more "episodic" arrangement. I can understand that.

[@Ruintheus]

​@@kregorovillupo3625The cosmos being as large as it is, what chance is there to continually encounter anything more than once, twice, or a few times at most?

[@kregorovillupo3625]

@@Ruintheus that's not what I ment. And the species 8472 is met twice, soooo.... I guess any chance the writers needs to. Remember people write this show?

[@ericzollman8751]

I love that you take the Sci-fi seriously. So few channels do that and that's a shame

[@bottombarrelbudgetfilms1854]

Jessie Gender is also good for further viewing but yes it's a very rare beauty

[@kdvr766]

You should look up speculative science channels, you might like them

[@StopFear]

I think a lot of people who make sci-fi content take “sci-fi” seriously. I follow a number of people whom I can recommend if you want. Actually, don’t you know that some science fiction writers took/take offense to the shortened term sci-fi and instead insist on saying “science fiction”. For example the late Harlan Ellison. He was notorious for saying angry stuff in general but he was always angry and had a pet peeve when people said “sci-fi” because to him it was making it sound like it was dismissive and insulting. I don’t know whether I agree with him since he also said plenty stupid things and took comics as seriously as literature (I think).

[@Zurround]

I wish he would focus on other genres of science fiction too, not just Star Trek. I think he did a little bit of Star Wars but there are so many other science fiction worlds that could use his analysis.

[@kdvr766]

@@Zurround you can check out curious archive channel you might like it

[@woo1818]

You know it’s dangerous when the alien isn’t just a skull cap on a soap actor

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

The Undine, while an excellent foe, suffered from the same problems as the Romulans in TOS - they were too expensive! 😁

[@stepheng618]

CGI was too expensive back then

[@frederickbehn5610]

They could make a return in the modern adaptations of Star Trek, I think that would be awesome..

[@tristanbulluss9386]

I have a picture of a ghost on a tv.

[@X7Excalibur]

​@Trump Is The Messiah Voyager was cool for what it was. A lone ship slowly upgrading itself as it makes a 70 year trip back home.

[@MetalheadAndNerd]

@@X7Excalibur Don't you see that he is a troll? Look at his name.

[@jamesdenecochea5709]

Back in the late-90's I made a huge "board game"(8'x4') for my kids. It featured several "squares" that said "SPECIES 8472... you've been eliminated from the game".

[@Vlamyncksken]

and?

[@jingbot1071]

@@Vlamyncksken and it sounds like it was dope, what more do you want from a KZbin comment?

[@Vlamyncksken]

@@jingbot1071 I must have been swerving on something because that was very mean of me

[@jingbot1071]

@@Vlamyncksken All good, self reflection is an important skill.

[@jbird976]

Can you be my dad for a few months?

[@DannyHeywood]

Another question is why have they evolved to be Super-Apex Predators when there is no prey or competition around them? They should be like Birds on Islands where they haven't learned to fear anything.

[@DannyHeywood]

To answer my own question...That would be a boring few episodes.

[@DarthAwar]

In the books it's specifies they killed off all life that was not theirs as they saw them as savages and threats

[@sampfrost]

are we sure they’re apec predators and not closer to the bottom on the food chain? like an invasive species being more powerful outside their natural habitats

[@thoryon7767]

Simple, multiple wars in increasing complexety with other apex species we have not met yet, most likely the only surviving one was them, and the remaining species were so insignificant they flew below the radar, not even worth bothering with, when you fight another country you dont bother subjugating the arcaic villagers do you?

[@thefultzman1]

We've only seen a very small part of fluidic space there could be other creatures there

[@JoshSweetvale]

The Borg poked the beehive. As for Fluidic space, isn't it symbiotic? Mutualistic? They were a living immune system.

[@Marchant2]

Thanks to Voyager's thrust into the Delta Quadrant, the show added so much for Star Trek to unpack in an effort to expand its cannon. Videos like this help the unpacking process and, to me, are pretty interesting.

[@mrosskne]

canon.

[@GameTimeWhy]

@@discobolos4227 it's weird because there would be a lot of costume designers who would love to make more inspired aliens. I wonder if it has to do with the old guard and keeping the show inline with what the old show set.

[@markfox1545]

Cannon. 🤣🤣🤣

[@kotzpenner]

For all its faults, Voyager easily had the most interesting premise of the big three. Instead of being the flagship cruising randomly, or a fixed station, it’s a crew trying to survive a hostile and unknown environment to take on a (star) trek home which they all might not even see the end of. It’s like Star Gate Universe, which was also bad but a cool idea.

[@ryanjones7681]

First time I've ever seen a red shirt make it through an entire episode. Well done 👏

[@thedudeabides3138]

LMFAO, what a brilliant comment! Bravo.

[@alexrusu6417]

you work at blizzard?

[@NarwahlGaming]

_"Let's get out of here before one of those things kill Guy!"_ - Gwen DiMarco 😂

[@KeytarArgonian]

I remember watching their first appearance when it aired as a kid, and seeing that many Borg cubes… FLEEING?! oh boy… it was absolutely terrifying.

[@masterzoroark6664]

Judging by the fact they have gene injectors that let them assume a form of another species I am leaning towards that they indeed genetically modified themselves to better survive the Fluidic Space. I presume on the way they might have engineered themselves to not need things like sleep and such to optimize their life.

[@Dr_Mafia]

Something I just realized- the Undine are clearly not alone in fluidic space as they have a need for shields and weapons and it is unlikely they developed them just to fight the borg

[@DJchilcott]

I mean, as far as we know, we're alone in the universe, and we have weapons and defences.

[@Dr_Mafia]

@@DJchilcott Yes, because we have enemies and others that wish harm upon us

[@DJchilcott]

@@Dr_Mafia Most of whom are other humans. My point is, the Undine might not have been united as they are now in the past. Especially considering how dense their DNA is, mutations must be extremely common. Thus leading to differences, and therefore, tribalism. The ones we see now might be the strains that survived massive wars of genocide.

[@fartquaviasdingle7876]

​@@DJchilcottEh but we aren't telepathic space floaters so the comparison seems pretty unfair.

[@andyghkfilm2287]

⁠@@DJchilcott but what good is a shield to a race that can disrupt shields as a biological feature?

[@tessalyyvuo1667]

I really wish I was as familiar with Star Trek as I am with Star Wars. Finding out gems like this only makes that feeling stronger.

[@alfromkentuck7915]

Your writer suggesting you add pissing gold and shitting diamonds made me hit the like. Good job writer

[@OrangeRiver]

Script editor* (I write the first drafts) But yes, he provides a very valuable service!

[@tablescissors]

Sounds like the Undine are a blend of species or may have genetically modified themselves at some point (this would fall in sync with “the grays” as Earthers call them). Nice video!!

[@That80sGuy1972]

For decades, I interpreted them existing in "fluidic space" as them existing in a form of hyperspace (extradimensional space) where all matter is fluid, super-hot, and dense. Them entering "our space" via the gates make them "blow up" to many times their actual volume and actually have less mastery over their powers and form despite how well they adapt to our cold vacuum. To put in simple comic-book sci-fi logic, they exist in almost the quantum universe and were not aware of our universe until the Borg invaded them.

[@Gingerbitten]

Is absolutely hilarious when he put that V-sauce pause and music in there.. well done sir, well done

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I think the Voyager writers took inspiration from Babylon 5's Shadows. The Shadows look sort of similar and they also have organic tech with their ships.

[@saberiandream316]

What do you want?

[@ironinquisitor3656]

@@saberiandream316 "Who are you? And what do you want?" 😆

[@saberiandream316]

​@@ironinquisitor3656 "Why are you here? Do you have anything worth living for?"

[@mickwayne3398]

very strong Thirdspace aliens vibes - they also hated other intelligent life

[@kevinjasper6620]

Interesting idea. I know the Shadows are the bad guys, but I like them. In a fight between Species 8472 and The Shadows, I wonder who would win. I think I'd bet on The Shadows

[@cdb5961]

Most aliens looked like us because it was easier on the budget.

[@thomashill6347]

I love the Species 8472 alien creation and I think the Tholians are also very cool. Thanks for sharing your research on this topic

[@OrangeRiver]

I thoroughly enjoy the portrayal of the Tholians as well!

[@tedwojtasik8781]

I dig how you can blow up a Tholian by turning on an air conditioning unit 🙂

[@andrewharris9302]

U have the most underrated trek KZbin channel. I love your videos me and my dad love trek and we watch your vid together. Keep up the great work bro

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you Andrew!

[@TighelanderII]

When I saw the Borg, they reminded me of the Posbis that I read in the pages of Perry Rhodan about 10 years earlier. They were as big a threat as the Borg are. They had shields that were like time machines; whatever hit them was sent to the past before it could reach the Posbi ship.

[@minorityofthought1306]

Oh hey, someone who knows who Perry Rhodan is. I read almost thirty issues way back. I don't remember the Posbi though. But that was thirty years ago.

[@TighelanderII]

@@minorityofthought1306 This was the last of the series I read back then. These issues were after Ace dropped the series. They were very simple editions - stapled and the same art on each cover. They're numbered 119-136. I think it went this way: Rhodan's crew first run into this race of invisible people, then you find out that the invisibles are fighting the Posbis.

[@NemoPropaganda]

Love ur vids bro!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you so much!!!

[@jasperdoornbos8989]

I just came home from work and discovered this nice jem you planted. Thanks Tyler, a great start of the weekend!

[@MrMightyZ]

I can relate somewhat from my experience with a guy who was a cold, powerful and truly awful creature who started hanging around with us. We had to get rid of him or "un-Dean" ourselves. Finally chased him off like he was a semi domesticated wild animal and it was for his own good.

[@risunokairu]

What about his brother Sam

[@nicholaseakin2900]

I suppose he also had a third leg….

[@Zurround]

I love how this is somewhat EDUCATIONAL in that there is some REAL SCIENCE mixed in.

[@La-familia-de-Fazio]

This was my favorite conflict in the whole of the Star Trek universe/series!!

[@marxtheenigma873]

I can't believe I forgot about these. I need to watch Voyager again.

[@jplonsdale7242]

The CGI hasn't aged well for them

[@Lykapodium]

I wonder if they're immune to the proto-molecule? Remember the Canterbury!

[@mryellow6918]

Probs not that thing is insane.

[@JosephAAmara]

Awesome video! I came for expansion upon a thought provoking sci-fi species, stayed for the astrophysics lesson!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you! Unfortunately not all commenters find my exploration of the real-world scientific background to be valuable. But honestly, it's one of the core elements of my channel...so I'm glad you find it valuable!

[@Algardraug]

Oh crap, I guess it's time for another Voyager rewatch

[@patrickmccurry1563]

Not humanoid for Star Trek. But compared to how weird life can get on Earth let alone hypothetically, I'd still call them pretty darn humanoid looking. Love the channel as always though.

[@bullpup1337]

@@subraxas thats just a gimmick and biologically quite implausible. 3 legs suck, there is no real benefit

[@tomasr.]

@@bullpup1337 Except for higher stability. But imagine you were living in liquid space, maybe there is a third leg usable for movement. Creatures what move on the sea floor usually have more legs. That third leg can be good to keep you from being swept away by the sea current.

[@bullpup1337]

@@tomasr. yeah but the most plausible mutation would be a gene duplication so you would go from 2 to 4 legs and then 6 or 8. To go back to three would then probably occur by shortening of one of the four legs over time. It is rare but could happen, see starfish with 5. But that would only happen if 3 legs were really better than 4 which seems unlikely. There are no terrestrial 3 legged animals to my knowledge.

[@tomasr.]

@@bullpup1337 The Undines have 5 limbs, 3 legs and 2 hands. Maybe their great ancestor really was a starfish. ;)

[@mrosskne]

If the universe is infinite, every possibility has occurred, no matter how unlikely.

[@shannonnewman3091]

This was a good watch , Thanks for the info on Species 8472

[@jadziadax6617]

When will you cover the Trill?

[@OrangeRiver]

I'd like to this year!

[@OrangeRiver]

@subraxas Excellent :D

[@sapemi08]

It is amazing how real scientific facts can be mixed with scifi stories to formulate "mind experiments" and wonder the infinite possibilities of this universe. Great job! and great voice and style, hope you can make it big!

[@saxondark]

Great video Tyler in fact I'd rank it among one of your best videos.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you Saxon! It was somewhat challenging to write, so I'm glad people are liking my take on this subject!

[@jorgnocke991]

@@OrangeRiver i have a video idea could you talk about Cthulhu different beings from the works auf Howard Phillips Lovecraft levelong and prosper🖖🏼

[@saxondark]

@@OrangeRiver This video is up to over 8k views already Tyler nice.

[@Frightful_Lag0]

Just found this channel, currently very pleased.

[@veschil]

Make a video about the Andromedans from TOS

[@tshiamo_v]

This was great. Thank You

[@streetlevelarmwrestling3311]

This Channel is very good, I like the style you use to talk through them.

[@OneCut1Slash]

Shape shifting, telepathy, and Wolverine level healing. Hot damn! I loved when they first showed up in Voyager.

[@cindya4951]

Thanks!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you so much!

[@xephorce]

nice break down on subject with little cannon info on them. Side note. I wonder what happened to Tom and Janeways children after they where abandoned??? Nightmares of Threshold...

[@patrickmccurry1563]

Let's just keep that episode in the same dumpster as ST:TNG's Code Of Honor, please.

[@xephorce]

@@patrickmccurry1563 we find them in the next season of Star Trek Discovery seeing as its in the 31st century. LMAO. the horrors.....

[@olliefoxx7165]

Is it possible for The Borg to actually feel fear? I can see the Borg assessing The Undine to be a threat and very dangerous to tge point of avoiding any contact/interaction. When the Borg give something that level of respect, its probably a good idea to avoid it as well. Such a fascinating species!

[@mryellow6918]

I don't see why they wouldn't the assimilate everything and fear is like a prime emotion. Required to exist. Even data even tho he says he doesn't have real emotions is show to fear multiple times.

[@IntenseVisuals]

Been waiting for this and it was without a doubt your best one yet!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you Jay!

[@jessemay1547]

Finally KZbin figured out my night routine and threw the Orange River Mix as the first suggestion.

[@l.salisbury1253]

Check out the underrated TNG graphic novel "Assimilation2". The Borg run into a race of cybernasties even worse than 8472. The situation is so bad the Borg try to form an alliance with the Federation/Enterprise... and the Enterprise needs to bring in characters from another franchise!!

[@jhallam2011]

This was one hell of a project and video to take on. Tyler you’re to damn smart and talented.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thanks Jeff--it definitely was a tough subject to tackle. I'm glad people are enjoying the video!

[@jhallam2011]

@@OrangeRiver indeed! God bless!

[@jaymac7203]

Wow im so glad i found this channel. For a Startrek fan these videos are fantastic 👏 I'm on a bit of a binge lol I just watched your one on Captain Jellico.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thanks a ton! Welcome to the community

[@singletona082]

Now that I think of it. DS9 had an episode where there *very explciitely* was a new universe forming and the dilemah was destrying it or risking it destroying everything i nthe local area. Maybe that is the birth of fluidic space? or how about that life form that hijacked the enterprise and used the holodeck as way for the crew to interface with it until it was finished building itself/being born?

[@DJosAmmel]

Been looking forward to this!

[@sfurtado3]

Thanks for the vid. Loved that VSause reference

[@aekaydubs]

I legitimately lol’d at the VSauce reference

[@OrangeRiver]

I'm glad people find it funny and not overused lol

[@muffinman956]

This is randomly entertaining.. kinda hits the spot in many ways 🤝

[@newtonjr6644]

You should try writing sci fi, you certainly have the knowledge and creativity for it!

[@kevinjohnson7553]

Absolute truth right here. 💯🖖

[@OrangeRiver]

@subraxas Lmao

[@OrangeRiver]

@Newton Jr At some point in the future as my video production pipeline becomes more automated, I'd definitely like to spend more time working on my own science fiction. I have lots of ideas I've been nurturing off and on for the past 10+ years that I'd like to share with my audience!

[@OrangeRiver]

@subraxas God, I hope not that long from now! Lol

[@tech42long35]

Great Stuff.. enjoyed the video !

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks Tyler. I was watching the Voyager episode with the fake Starfleet academy _ headquarters. This week .

[@JeremyWS]

Species 8472's five sexes always confused a little bit, would've been nice to know more about that. I would've liked to have learned more about how a species like that reproduces. It'd nice to know since it's so different from our two sexes. I think it would be interesting to look into something like that. Why didn't you say anything?

[@Dreadnotus]

3/5 of them have a mental disorder

[@Scragg-]

Maybe due to their 3 strand DNA structure they need a combination of any 3 of the 5 sexes to reproduce?

[@annettegrant6423]

Think rainbow flag😁😁

[@yanlopez674]

@@annettegrant6423 Lmfao no

[@calamitynatalie8590]

Could be like a progenitor type situation?

[@DreadPirateDoug]

Your videos just keep getting better! Keep doing you, man. Love this stuff.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you!

[@diegoleao]

I died when Vsauce music started playing 😂

[@jorgnocke991]

Great video thank you I have a wonderful and blessed day

[@sadukar_7th_legion]

Good video mate, subbed for more. I always thought 8472 were under utilised and they were basically an organic version of the Borg. They would make a great film.

[@MonCappy]

I think that the Undine were designed by a writing team that don't really understand biology. There's so much about their biology in the lore that I think is overly complicated. On the other hand, I do think they make for an interesting antagonist and I wish we saw more of them.

[@zadkiel242]

The writers didn't even know how to adequately use an antagonist. The Borg, Dominion, and Undine were absolutely used terribly.

[@StopFear]

I am glad we don’t see more of them. That isn’t to say recent Star Trek isn’t full of stupidity and non-sense. I didn’t like this species because when Voyager was originally on TV they were trying to hype them, but as far as their behavior they essentially were identical to mindless invader monsters like the idiotic aliens in The Independence Day, or even Xenomorphs. I remember viewers were comparing the episode where Janeway had to fight one of this aliens it was joked that it’s like Star Trek is copying Alien. If they are advanced enough to make spaceships then they are advanced enough to have more diverse thought processes than just invading and killing all others. Even their body design is essentially a “tripod” which in science fiction is an idea that’s too old. The only reason we don’t see more tri legged aliens in movies is that it’s difficult to make a non cgi creature that realistically walks on 3 legs.

[@zadkiel242]

@@StopFear All the Star Trek post Wrath of Khan never were able to make good, solid villains. The Borg just became jobbers because of their own stupidity. The premise behind the Borg is just ridiculous. The way they fight battles is stupid. Wasted villain. The Dominion is the same thing. The Dominion are an acient race. The Founders had every opportunity to do some real serious damage to the entire Alpha Quadrant, but no, the kid gloves never came off. The Jem Hadar could defeat every ship in the Federation except the Defiant because it came with quantum phasing super duper plot armor. Then you have the Undine who came out swinging and curbstomping Borg left and right (since they're jobbers anyway), but then when they met Voyager. Voyager is the final boss to the Undine. Imagine you get to the final boss, and it's the guy working in the lab collecting samples. He doesn't even know how to fight. Yeah that's Voyager. Not a ship designed for war. The Undine ship was. Yet Voyager wins because of the law of conservation of ninjutsu. It's always the same with these writers

[@spacedoohicky]

I'm curious. What about their biology was amiss? Not trying to debate, or anything. I'm genuinely curious.

[@zadkiel242]

@@spacedoohicky It's not so much their biology as much as the fact that the Undine showed up as these massive powerhouses only to be terrified of Voyager and nanites.

[@adriangabrieljones881]

Thank you for the video!

[@The1andOnlyWog]

I just have to point out how AWESOME it is that you used so much MelodySheep footage in this video! The "Life Beyond" series is thought-provoking, well researched & presented, and breath-takingly beautiful. I'm sorry, I like to see things that show my favorite creators happen to enjoy some of the same content I do. Great video, keep up the amazing work!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thanks Paul!

[@HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP]

This is a very well put together and informative video. Thank you.

[@angstony459]

Hey guys.....angstony here......Tyler is great at breaking down the biology, history, culture and technology of star trek mythos. Live long and prosper.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you angstony!

[@michaelanthony9068]

Great breakdown. I’ve always said that Voyager had the most inventive Sci fi concepts.

[@Petmyhead]

Non humanoid aliens villans were always way more creepy and menacing in the star trek shows.

[@Little-Buster]

I met these 8472 aliens in Star Trek Elite Force. It was fun messing with them, by getting on the high ground and leave them staring at you all confused because they can't reach you. And they multiplied! There were so many of them that my pc struggled and lagged.

[@scottdotjazzman]

Me too. I played the heck out of that game. Now you're giving me a hankering to try it again. Thanks XD

[@Little-Buster]

@@scottdotjazzman It's nostalgic, isn't it?

[@jasonwright8546]

I really enjoyed this species on screen, and they would be one of my top favorites, except for one thing. The "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" morphing into human form was a copout. I am sure it was a budget decision, but to me, it took something truly alien and unique and turned it into a worn out cliché.

[@eskanda3434]

They probably had no other way to do it in the 90s cgi was too new/expensive so having then morph into humans made sense

[@Mrsasmcsquatch]

hey there genius man, this channel is super awesome. maybe my new fav

[@damonledford180]

Excellent work!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you!

[@terrylandess6072]

3 was also a 'defining' factor with the Martians portrayed in the first release of 'War of the Worlds' with Gene Barry.

[@blackdog6969]

Could have sworn 8472 were called the Undine by the Voyager crew during the episode of them mimicking humans, pretending to be Starfleet. I'm probably wrong but the name I swear came from the Voyager series, not STO. Sorry, just a thing I noticed. Gotta watch the rest of this vid anyway, looking quite impressive

[@jplonsdale7242]

Just scrolling through the comments and you're the third person to say that. Apparently one went back and rewatched the episode and the scene was missing! Weird

[@ElOchentero]

Thankfully not, Undine is the most ridiculous name they could come up with

[@amateurastronomer9463]

They did. Ray walston ( he played digby the star fleet academy groundskeeper), called themselves the undine. When he was talking to Janeway. And formed some sort of truce. Makes me wonder if it's the baddies that's making that particular transwarp conduit at the end of Picard.

[@BL33NB]

@@ElOchentero wasnt it also a pun to make it close to "undying"?

[@tomasr.]

@@ElOchentero I don't think so. Undine is not an official name for the species, just a human nickname. 8472 are like mermaids, but much uglier ;)

[@jackylee5850]

The writers at some point probably realized that introducing a race like the borg that's nigh unstoppable makes for very limited writing. You can't casually insert them into a plot as a "villain of the day" as it'll always turn into a one-sided curbstomp in the borg's favor. So, after sitting on the "untouchable" title for a while, someone thought: Let's come up with a bigger galactic bully that even the local bully is afraid of Remember the part where Janeway said if 8472 reached Earth the Federation would be powerless to stop them. Since they live in an alternate dimension and cross over via quantum singularity, it's possible they can open the singularity to any point in space across the galaxy, even right on Earth's front door. Once again, plot armor saved the series.

[@streets2stream]

Please do an episode on the think tank!!!

[@doctorclu]

Thanks for making such a factual and enjoyable show. You are practically Vulcanesque. :D

[@Moodymongul]

13:29 - i had wondered before, if the Species 8472 design ..inspired the Cloverfield monster. I still think so :)

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

02:50f: _Their DNA has a triple helix structure._ It's not DNA then but some other kind of gene carrier.

[@Peregrine57]

For some reason, I have a memory of the one Undine posing as Boothby telling the Voyager crew their species name. And it might have even been "Undine" too. But I rewatched the episode a year or so ago, and that scene simply doesn't exist. Unless it was a deleted scene that I picked up somewhere, I have no idea where I would have gotten that memory from. Anyway, in my opinion, "Undine" is a perfectly fine species name, and I hope the name gets canonized at some point in the future. More than 20 years on, and we're still referring to them by a Borg designation. The Elachi is another species, only seen on screen once, but never named, that STO fleshed out, and I hope the species name for them gets canonized too.

[@stef_trek]

I also remember this and will re watch. Is this the Mandela effect?

[@notsyzagts7967]

There was no deleted scene like that. You're simply experiencing the Mandela Effect.

[@nathank3976]

Star Trek Armada II

[@Peregrine57]

@@nathank3976 I doubt it. I never played it, and from what I can tell, Ray Walston wasn't in it.

[@randybaumery5090]

They seem to be inspired by that creature from the animated cartoon series whose name was Lt Arex.

[@esausjudeannephew6317]

That was a really great review. As a science fiction fan of the old school.. Isaac asimov.. Larry niven.. Arthur c clarke.. I really respect your whole approach. You are style is intelligent and concise. Well done.

[@generalfrank6919]

that 'Vsauce' moment made me crack! xD

[@Ray_HD]

What about the space of undines is a drop of whater in our universe and the wormhole to their space shrinks everyone going in and makes them giant when they go out?

[@twinturbo3461]

The Borg is only technologically advanced, species 8472 is advanced on many fronts, not just technological.

[@zadkiel242]

Like?

[@twinturbo3461]

@@zadkiel242 Watch the Voyager series and see for yourself. Season 3 last episode, Season 4 first episode.

[@zadkiel242]

@@twinturbo3461 I saw it, but other than technology, what else is advanced? We don't get much info on their society, psychology, or even how their brain functions. So what, other than technology, is more advanced?

[@twinturbo3461]

@@zadkiel242 Physiology, spiritually, psychic abilities, I believe they can enter into "sub-space" , they have great physical attributes as well.

[@zadkiel242]

@@twinturbo3461 It seems like a reasonable assumption. I just wish the writers did a better job with them and the Borg. The Borg should have been way way different and actually powerful. It seems that all the protagonists have to do is modify the shields, phasers, or some random mcguffin to get the win.

[@RandomYT05_01]

If the Borg are afraid, you know something is extremely wrong.

[@RyuuKageDesu]

This species deserved a longer run as a villain.

[@amateurastronomer9463]

Maybe they are. Maybe they're the baddies of Picard season 3

[@CorporateG0th]

In the context of producing an epic, they are certainly a great villain to center the story around. But in the context of philosophical exploration as ST is want to do, I think we were well served by getting a nuanced view from both sides, leading up to the cease fire. In which case, the intricacies of their culture and their interaction with the Federation should've gotten more airtime. Though Voyager was still in a time when a fair amount of script & screentime was dedicated to this (vs. say Discovery now)

[@khandallah4725]

villain is one of the most regressive terms in star trek.

[@miboxcmpinto4977]

Hey, Taylor! Guys, here.

[@darrensmith6999]

Nice one thank you, i am a recent subscriber to your channel and enjoy your content very much. Live Long and Prosper (:

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you Darren! Glad to have you here

[@treyowen9213]

The words “Borg” and “afraid” are something I would never have expected to see in one sentence. So these zombies do have some semblance of emotion.

[@retluoc]

That is cute that it translates to "Groundskeepers" seeing that their commander in the Milky Way took the form of Boothbay. Janeway did a great job of making peace with them, which surprised me when one attacked me in Star Trek Online. I thought humans and Undine had a truce.

[@justinhammer3196]

I blame Chakotay. He's my goto when things unexpectedly go wrong. He obviously messed big with Seven of Nine after all.

[@retluoc]

Yes, he did mess things up by lying to that Undine who identified as female. She acted truly hurt when she found out he was human 😀...but she forgave him in the end. I need to see that episode again. Edit: I found it...season 5, episode 4 "In the Flesh". And I forgot that the Undine female was played by Kate Vernon of BSG fame (among other roles).

[@kevinjasper6620]

I always thought that species 8472 lived in our universe, way back in the mists of time. They were severely beaten in a war and those that remained left and found a place to hide and rebuild. In fluidic space they came to be what they are now.

[@jamesfry8983]

Those bio ships look very vorlon

[@jamesfry8983]

@@subraxas Exactly