Did Edward Jellico Do Anything Wrong?

[@OrangeRiver]

Data was too much of a yes-man, change my mind

[@GeekatHome]

Personally, I think he was more of a tin-man

[@singletona082]

Data probably weighed the situational needs against the potential issues of someone else being brought in. I feel he was too much of a lackey to Jellico, but data personally saw what Riker's, frankly reasonable, objections and observations got. He probably viewed it as being able to do the most good for those under him if he be the interface layer. After all. He has no feelings to hurt, and if he can shield others from Jelico's frankly unhinged bluster? THen it is the logical course of action.

[@GopherBaroque61]

@@GeekatHome Nope! Tin Man was a space faring entity.

[@Knightfall182]

Terry Matalas' Data 2.0 from Pic S3 probably would have clashed with Jellico, and had difficulty falling in line with him.

[@JohnSmith-rw2yn]

Logical, the rules are to obey which he does take literally, but if the yes meant conflicting with an ethical situation, he would have said no to protect lives.

[@clearsmashdrop5829]

My biggest beef with this episode isn't Jellico; whom I personally support. It's the ridiculus idea that Star Fleet would send the Capt, CMO, and head of security of the flagship on a special ops mission.

[@singletona082]

agree. Why was Picard; a diplomat and archeologist and explorer... Sent on effectivly a grenade throwing mission?

[@DerethAC]

Pretty much. Sure Picard may be an expert on metagenic weapons, but does he really need to be an expert to eliminate them in a mission?

[@theycallmejojo6090]

To be fair that has always been a problem with Star Trek, especially in TOS.

[@ericstaples7220]

You have to suspend disbelief in order to make most plots work.

[@lordhawkeye]

Truth!

[@NewEarthSpiritual808]

My main problem was Riker, he was absolutely insubordinate and totally deserved to be dismissed. In fact he should have had a permanent reprimand.

[@alanmike6883]

Exactly David

[@Lennis01]

Reprimand the writers. The situation was too contrived to be believable.

[@cha02psc]

Jellico did nothing other than highlight the inefficacy of Picard and his senior staff. They are unable to function without Picard. They cannot adapt to any other scenario. They are pampered, comfortable, and relaxed. Troi even tries to undermine Jellico to make Riker feel better. And all Jellico did was ask Troi to dress like she was coming to work, not going to the prom. Riker behaves like a child and Jellico is still the bigger man, not reacting obviously to Riker’s grin when he forces Jellico to ask for his help. Riker should have been reassigned after that. He placed the life of his work dad above the safety of the Federation and would have been quite happy starting a war. If the crew had rallied around their new Captain there would have been a productive work environment. But they did nothing but baulk at the fact that their favourite captain was no longer there and they couldn’t chill out and have concerts all the time.

[@doct0rnic]

Absolutely

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

It's not really meant to be a military org. And a team that handles diverse scenarios can't have a typical military style command structure - because that command structure requires centralization of authority, and "competence", at the top. The Starfleet Captains aren't capable of being that competent across all the scenarios that they need to be able to deal with... So the lower ranks have to be able to lead in their own domains. Even so, the implied 24th century maturity of humanity, seems to not go very far, and isn't sufficiently well thought out.

[@RonHarrisMe]

I was in the U.S. Navy, I went through I think 6 "Change of Command" ceremonies in my career. Command is about one thing, and one thing only... RESPONSIBILITY. You can't assign the responsibility of 1000 people to someone and NOT give them control, if you didn't give them that level of control how can you possibly hold them accountable.. or RESPONSIBLE. The XO, Riker did exactly what an XO does, informs the Captain of options, the XO also is in "touch" with Department Heads to get a feel of how the "crew" is doing. This "let's drop the ranks" conversations are FICTION, there are moments of "speaking freely" but outright disrespect would NEVER be tolerated. The XO and sometimes Dept Heads will give their opinions IF ASKED, as it happens in the Conference Room, but ultimately the Captain's Orders is the FINAL word because ultimately, he is RESPONSIBLE. When Jellico took Command, every order he gave would of been followed, Riker gave the Captain his opinion, the Captain disagreed, therefore the order stands. Period. End of Discussion. The ONLY ORDER YOU CAN CHOOSE NOT TO FOLLOW, IS ONE THAT IS UNLAWFUL. "I was just following orders" has NEVER saved anyone from prosecution. Note: see "A Few Good Men". A real life example - We had a death on the ship, it could of been prevented. An investigation was done, one of the Officers was not doing their job..THAT officer AND THE CAPTAIN were removed. Just like that. That person died and it was the Captain that was ultimately responsible for that death. It's a lot, I know, but real life is rarely brief.

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

The practical thing in the Star Trek context is that their problems are too varied, and they're not things that they're necessarily trained to handle. Being able to respond creatively to varied situations in an independent manner, requires a different kind of decision making structure than your typical military command structure.

[@tayzonday]

I’d still MUCH rather disobey Jellico than Sisko. Jellico confines you to quarters. Sisko, you don’t know what ends he’ll go to in order to win- so you make sure to stay on his good side 😂

[@CaptainKwame1773]

I always find these rash comments about Sisko’s supposedly aggressiveness to be stereotypical. He was perhaps the most family oriented Captain we’ve seen, even more so than Pike, but he always get painted as this really aggressive war monger all because of “In the Pale Moonlight.” He also did warn the planet about destroying the atmosphere and he threw Eddington in the brig and sent him to prison!

[@ComradePhoenix]

Sisko will beam you into the fucking wormhole.

[@tayzonday]

@@CaptainKwame1773 Sisko had better enemy character arcs (DuKat, Weyoun, Winn, changeling Martok and Bashir) and also a more sinister Federation (Section 31 being willing to counter-genocide the Changelings with a virus to save the Alpha quadrant). Picard’s less-personable adversaries (Nine Q episodes, six Borg episodes) didn’t force him to be treacherous in a noble, realpolitik way.

[@CaptainKwame1773]

@@tayzonday I see what you're saying, but Sisko is not throwing anyone out of an airlock because they've gotten on his bad side. He would have done that to so many people on DS9; he was clearly a Captain much in like with the kind of Captain Jellico is--my command, my choice. I think nothing more. There are way more Captains we can use here for this aggressive comparison: Lorca, Ransom, O'Brien's former CO, etc. Sisko is not Section 31, and there you can find more sinister Captains/operatives to be fearful of.

[@curtisharrell]

Well after all he DID punch an OMNIPOTENT BEING in the nose lol.

[@marshallhuffer4713]

7:13 - according to Ronny Cox, the removal of Livingston from the ready room had a larger motive. Patrick Stewart hated Livingston's presence in the ready room, and constantly petitioned the producers to remove the fish. Stewart felt that it was inappropriate to have a captive animal in a series that valued the dignity of different species. Cox stated that the producers' decision to temporarily remove the fish was thus a "sort of bone they threw to Patrick".

[@nathanieldaiken1064]

Livingston was a direct intercom to the cetaceans in navigation Incase the normal IC failed. You didn't think he was confined to the ready room, did you?🤔😆

[@oddish4352]

Same thing with Troi's uniform, I heard. Marina Sirtis wanted to wear a standard uniform, so they had the change occur in this episode, and just stuck with it.

[@sartainja]

I did not know what the name of the fish was until now. Was the fish in the ready room when Data and Riker crash landed the ship?

[@sartainja]

@@oddish4352 I read that "The Great Bird of the Galaxy" wanted Troi to have three "fun bags" until D.C. Fontana talked him out of it.

[@oddish4352]

@@sartainja I heard it was four.

[@brandonb1681]

I served in the US Army for 21 years as an NCO. Regularly we would have senior NCOs and company/battalion commanders rotate through. The differing command styles could be challenging, but we adapted.

[@DanCojocaru2000]

You do have to remember that Enterprise was a discovery and even leisure vessel though. Families lived aboard that star ship. The Enterprise crew adapted too, but in the process Jellico faced significant friction from his crew, so much so that, if a difficult situation would have arose, I wouldn't have been surprised of mutinies could have appeared.

[@lordhawkeye]

Amen brother

[@kellyweingart3692]

thank you for your service

[@stevencoardvenice]

​@@DanCojocaru2000 Stop the nonsense. Starfleet was the military of the federation

[@thodan467]

do you accept commanders going into combat without briefing their XO of their intent and downgrading the combat efficiency of the outfit?

[@davidradich9342]

As a Navy veteran, I found Jellico to be a breath of fresh air. He was realistic and in the episode, the Enterprise crew were the unreasonable ones.

[@35mm21]

I disagree. Jellico might have been realistic but the Enterprise isn't a military vessel. Star Trek created this issue by having the Enterprise alternatively be, and not be, a military vessel depending on what the plot demanded. But ultimately with families on board...its not a military vessel.

[@davidradich9342]

@@35mm21 Yeah, I had this argument with Rick Berman at a convention back in the 90s. I asked why no enlisted were on the Enterprise but I don't buy that crap. Starfleet is and always was based on the Navy in its structure. Incidentally the next season Miles O'Brien was made a Chief Petty Officer right before going to DS9 and since then Trek had enlisted men...but then again so did TOS. That said, it's just a TV Show.

[@MrJeffcoley1]

As a Marine veteran, totally agree. Jellicoe charging in like a bull in a China shop making changes just to shake everything up and show he's in charge is absolutely 100% accurate. HOWEVER - as an officer, I question the wisdom of blowing up the ship's duty rosters and disrupting the well-oiled machine, removing key officers from the chain of command just as he's about to take the ship into harm's way.

[@MrJeffcoley1]

@@davidradich9342 I always wondered about the lack of enlisted personnel aboard the Enterprise D as well. I just assumed they were among the thousands of personnel we heard about but never see.

[@davidradich9342]

@@MrJeffcoley1 Which actually makes it more realistic, because that is the type of shit that happens during changes of command that I have seen. Officers can be head strong and they do that kind of thing from time to time. Writer of episode Ronald D Moore was a vet.

[@thewalkinglost]

I've always seen it as; Space Daddy is gone, and Space Stepdaddy is new and scary. The audience and the crew are experiencing the same emotional wallop, and we rebel. I guess that's my argument for over hated.

[@scottcohen1776]

I served in the Navy for 12 years. Changes in command were a normal thing and with every new commanding officer has their own command philosophy. It is the job and role of the subordinates to adjust. He was 100% in the right.

[@Optimistprime.]

Exactly my thoughts. Under Picard, the crew became soft. Everyone except Data seemed to have issues. Change can be hard and disruptive but these are supposed to be the best of the best on the Enterprise. They are definitely not that.

[@kdryan21]

Picard was an excellent peacetime captain. Jellico was an excellent wartime captain. Neither was better or worse, just different. Each had his own talents.

[@tayzonday]

@@Mrtee-ml8zf Wartime Picard was interesting in “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” I have a feeling Jellico would not have listened to the advice of an El-Aurian friend and would have condemned the Federation to Klingon plunder/citizenship.

[@Transilvanian90]

Maybe, but it's still a terrible idea to overhaul your ship's chain of command at a critical moment.

[@thodan467]

Jellico was an criminal irresponsible wartime captain

[@kdryan21]

@@Transilvanian90 sometimes you don't have the luxury of an adjustment period.

[@Transilvanian90]

@@kdryan21 No, but sending the current CO on a spec ops mission and replacing him with another is a luxury.

[@JaredLS10]

Picard was Jellico like in the first season of TNG, wasn't until the later seasons Picard starts to lighten up but only from years of serving with the officers and crew around him. Like others have pointed out, the crew had been together for so long that they collectively pushed back on Jellico instead of welcoming a new Captain who had not asked to be assigned to the Enterprise but followed his orders.

[@jameskelly3502]

I agree. In fact, on Voyager, Captain Janeway mentioned in one of her logs that Starfleet taught her to have distance between a Captain and crew. And how she was comfortable with that distance until the circumstances Voyager was now in. I think Starfleet Captains are more like Jericho rather than Picard.

[@thodan467]

a captain who was a danger to mission and crew

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

@@thodan467 what danger? forcing them to go through combat drills so the captain could see how they react in a chaotic situation? All Riker had to do was follow his orders and report his complaints through the proper starfleet channels. Instead he threw a tantrum and sat in his room.

[@thodan467]

@@DrinkyMcBeer Worst did not inform his XO, about the mission and his plans then did not inform his command team of his modus operandi and intent. Then weakens the engineer team, the most important part of the crew in case of combat. Then disrupts the sleep pattern and risks going into danger with an overtired team. Riker had no duty to sacrifice his honor, his reputation and duty to his comrades for Jellico Or in good old prussian The soldier king An officer has to follow his orders except they go against his honor or in good new prussian the king made you a staff officer, that you know when not to follow orders a prussian prince and Fieldmarshall

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

@@thodan467 Jellico had no control over how Picard ran the ship prior to him taking command. He saw that it had been run like a luxury cruise liner and needed to get them into combat readiness in the time he had available. The crew of the flagship of the fleet should be capable of sucking it up and doing what needs to be done. He asked engineering to make adjustments in case the ship saw major combat. He ordered Riker to make crew adjustments day one to give the crew the maximum time to adjust. He wasn't able to just blab about the secret covert mission. Every member of thar crew could have filed official complaints and dealt with the problems the proper way, only one threw a hissy fit. I have no clue what you are going on about with regards to prussians, so I'll just ignore all that nonsense.

[@section9ishikawa]

Let's not overlook the choice of actor for Jellico. Ronny Cox was a hated villain in Stargate, RoboCop, Total Recall to name a few. I wonder how many viewers at first were quick to misjudge Jellico at first just because of that. If we were to read the script before seeing the episode, the bias (which I admittedly had) against him would not have been so prominent. Edit- Ronny had not yet appeared in Stargate, but he played the villain archetype well in everything before TNG.

[@randylee3789]

You're not wrong....after Stargate I was unable to like his characters in anything, I utterly HATED him in Sg1...but if i take myself out of that, i found his command style to rigid, he was rude, didn't care about his crew other than if they did their jobs to HIS specifications or not...he isnt a leader, he's a CEO.

[@ArronRatliff]

Yeah the first time i saw Jellico i blurted out hey it's the a**hole. cause everything i had seen him in before then he played a greedy power hungry villain character.

[@GeekFilter]

His appearance in Stargate would not come until eight years after this episode!

[@jaysonraphaelmurdock8812]

Anybody else seen him in Beverly Hills Cop?

[@RilianSharp]

i didn't know the actor so it's not the case for me.

[@William-the-Guy]

Jelico was the hero of that show. He saved everyone, including Picard. The fact that people are even debating this and trying to say he did something wrong is amazing to me. It's not even a debate. He was the captain of a military vessel with lives at stake and saved those lives. Trying to say he is wrong because he wasn't as friendly is nuts.

[@mattcat83]

A 4 shift crew rotation is brilliant; Riker should've implemented it faster rather than dragging his feet.

[@ericb6309]

Yeah, doesn’t everyone work fewer hours in a normal week??

[@TheJabbate1]

My thoughts exactly. A well rested crew is what you need in case the shit hits the fan.

[@MysticMike]

4 shift rotation would be great but Riker did say there was the issue of man power. If man power is too thin for it then its not always a good idea to make it so.

[@mattwho81]

Implemented a more crew intensive rotation while stripping 1/3 of engineering staff and sending them to security. Of course there were huge problems.

[@TheGenXGeek]

Over hated. He was a proper Captain. He was there for a mission, not to make friends.

[@salzysisters5799]

He was 100% a dick. But when I was in the Navy, I was most battle ready for the Captain that was the biggest dick. 🤷

[@ericstaples7220]

It wasn't about making friends, it was about him not knowing what he was doing. Guy was the embodiment of "fake it till you make it."

[@DanCojocaru2000]

Making people work for you while making them hate you will certainly not make for a productive environment that achieves the mission.

[@bigfootwalker5399]

Starfleet has no moral standards, they give promotions to Janeway and her gang of terrorists.

[@ericstaples7220]

@@Walter_Stroud The episode made it clear Jellico was unsure of himself, bluffing and gambling with people's lives. He was just lucky, this time.

[@peopleseethis]

In my personal experiences dealing with authority figures I feel Jellico is a boss, whereas Picard is a leader, and they are very different things.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

Simple and great way of putting it.

[@OrangeRiver]

Amen

[@Pepitobenito]

Well put.

[@roadkillz78]

Agreed, Jellico seems impersonal to everyone. But then again, we don't know how he is to his crew on his own ship. It would have been interesting to see.

[@paulrasmussen8953]

​@MarinCipollina the issue if hirts crew efficiency

[@malloc5014]

Will and the rest of the Love boat crew didn't like being reminded they are on a military ship and not a pleasure cruiser. Similar thing happened when Kurn came on-board, Riker told him the crew didn't like the new shift pattern so Kurn decided to embarrass Riker at dinner.

[@John_Lyle]

What military ship has wives civilians and children aboard? I was born and raised on army married quarters but unless something had gone absolutely pear shaped that didn't become a front line situation. Jellico's big mistake in my view was that he had the time to get to know the crew but didn't bother, and he reprimanded senior officers in front of their subordinates instead of taking them aside as Data did to Worf in "Gambit" part 2.

[@VikCain]

Weren't they nerds doing research or something like that? Regardless Jellico did nothing wrong, came up on top, saved the day and looked damn good while doing so.

[@malloc5014]

@John_Lyle it's bristling with weapons is the flagship of the fleet and gets in constant fights. There should be no kids whatsoever but that's starfleets fault.

[@danielturpin8776]

I used to hate Jellico. But after seeing the episode many times I decided to try and see his perspective. If you watch the episode knowing how it ends, And really try and see what Jellico is going for. To me, I realized that he plays it perfectly. Jellico plays this episode like a speed-run, He has played this level many times and knows exactly which options to pick for the best outcome. I honestly cannot watch the episode now without being annoyed at the crew for not seeing the temporary nature of the mission makes sense to be so demanding of the crew. A long term plan like this would be too demanding, but a short time-frame operation makes the demandingness of Jellico to be quite reasonable. Jellico played his cards exactly right in this one!

[@thodan467]

If you call that best outcome do not think what could be worse

[@abraxaszee8953]

I have another question: was Starfleet right in sending Picard on that black ops mission? It seems like a “so the plot can happen” thing.

[@bumbleguppy]

Especially if you accept the existence of Section 31. And why isn't there something less CIA like in Star Fleet like some Special OPS type?

[@mikesully110]

In fairness the Cardiassians are expert spies and they did tailor the honeytrap so it needed a precise bit of knowledge and expertise they knew only Picard would have (perhaps they saw a public domain paper on a niche subject he had written years ago and tailored it to that). It was picard they wanted so they could tailor a trap to lure him specifically in. Wether that still means they should have sent a 60+ year old flagship captain down to an enemy planet with no other tactical ground crew other than 2 others..

[@DR.64A9]

It's the same type of logic as sending a captain and first officer on away missions. It's necessary for the show, but tactically a poor decision.

[@cm275]

@@bumbleguppyWe know Starfleet Intelligence runs cover ops but we haven’t really seen them doing special ops style stuff. They seem to just use line officers for that.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

@@bumbleguppy If it was DS9 and they sent in Worf, Kira and Bashir I'd buy that. Beverly & Picard not so much

[@Nitero_]

Since Christmas 92' when we discovered that my father was a Jellico hardliner and supporter the holidays have never been the same. Makes my brothers and I dress in all black and leave dinner for a extended period of time on a "away mission", yells at my mother who has a fake beard on about a "four shift rotation". Its just a really weird time. Well good thing now that I'm older I dont have to wear the Beverly Crusher wig anymore! Great video as always. One of my favorite episodes in TNG, even with the childhood trauma.

[@GarysActionManChannel1970]

There is one side to Jellico that is often overlooked he was a husband and father! He would not have wanted the Enterpise to he an uninviting place as it was likely his wife and son would join him on the ship. Also, he would not have been awkward around children as Picard was - Captain Jellico day would have been a genuinely enjoyable event.

[@djhutchison]

Something to consider is the situation. Jellico's demands were in contemplation of the Federation going to war. It seems this is something he did not feel this crew was ready for, and it was part of his duty to make sure they were. I imagine if the situation were different, we would have been treated to a very different introduction to the character.

[@bumbleguppy]

Imagine instead of Jellico, Star Fleet assigned a Vulcan captain that did basically the same things. Or bring Kern back lol

[@timesthree5757]

I was in the Military. What Jelico did happens all the time. The enterprise has had the same crew for a long time. So they had forgotten how to adapt.

[@singletona082]

I mean. Fair. It's just to me it semeed more like he was blustering and pushing weight around ... just to bluster and push weight around. Me? I'm going to be guy in shift three working fuckall deck fuckwhee so I'm never going to see the guy I'm just going to get it from my supervisor that everything's cycled out which is going to leave me annoyed but what choice do I have? It's the fleet's flag ship. Having a shift change is far less of an issue than Q showing up, or some face coming out of a space hole that randomly killed someone, or the gods-damned Borg again... Point is. Jelico is..... barely in the top ten on disruptive things that ship goes through.

[@ArronRatliff]

@@singletona082 Hell Jellico isn't even in the top twenty lol

[@timesthree5757]

@@singletona082 a new captain disruption was the unfamiliar disruption.

[@stevencoardvenice]

Exactly. Picard was like Riker's friend after all those years

[@thodan467]

@@singletona082 did you ever really work shift? Did you ever had your sleep cycle to adapt to a massive change and interruption

[@TheRedneckPreppy]

Jellico was fine. When I served I'd much rather have a Jellico commanding me than a Picard.

[@kevinmajorca]

He was a military man replacing the captain of what essentially was a leisure cruise ship. Through him the writers made Riker look like a spoiled child. Kind of liked it and kind of hated it.

[@BigTylt]

And also, even if he's unreasonable, they're in the military, and they're sailors. You don't have to like your orders, but you are duty bound to follow them.

[@thodan467]

@@BigTylt No , we are not I had never a duty to follow an order that violated my honor or was not given with an official service goal. An officer has to follow his orders, except they go against his honor. the soldier king The king made you a staff officer that you know when not to follow orders

[@Lennis01]

@@thodan467 In modern militaries, it's not so much a question of honor as it is the legality of the orders you are given. In certain circumstances an officer can be charged with a crime for following orders, if said orders are ruled to be illegal.

[@thodan467]

@@Lennis01 Honor= reputation, in this case professional reputation

[@jessierichards8576]

When Captain Picard was introduced to Will Riker in the two part episode encounter at Farpoint for the first time, Captain Picard told him to manually reconnect the saucer section. Picard says to Riker You've checked in and I mean now .In the first few episodes of TNG the Picard was very authoritative before relationship were built and things settled down. This is to say that when you take command of a new ship you have to flex your Authority a little bit to let them know who the new boss is. Also there was a state of impending War even though I've always considered the Cardassian a lesser technical organization than Starfleet

[@MaizeAndBlueWahoo]

Imagine you're a scientist and you've been happily cataloguing gaseous anomalies for the past few years. But in one week you'll be in a shooting war, with people trying to kill you and everyone on your ship. Whether you and your whole family survive, depends on how well the ship, crew, and you perform. That's the situation Jellico was dropped into - he was put in command of a crew in not just a peacetime mindset, but almost a permanent peacetime mindset. Not only that, but he (and almost he alone) had the ability to prevent the war entirely. Do you really think he has time to care what people think of him and his command style? The huge error in the analysis here is that Riker wasn't just being petty, he was being flat-out insubordinate by not implementing the four-shift duty rotation. You don't go, "well, I'll just not do it and I'll talk the captain out of this." He tried to say his piece, Jellico didn't want to hear it, so that needed to be the end of that. Sure, Jellico might've come off as an asshole. But Starfleet and the Enterprise needed an asshole at that time. And that being the case, he wasn't being an asshole at all, because assholes are the way they are for no reason. Jellico had to get it done NOW. Not a month from now. There are ways Jellico could've improved his command style while still fulfilling the mission, but the bottom line is that allowing himself to adapt to the Enterprise, rather than the other way around, is precisely the last thing he could've afforded to do. IMO they really wasted an opportunity to add a top-notch recurring character to rival Q and Lwaxana. Jellico can be rigid, abrasive, demanding, and borderline tyrannical. He's also hypercompetent, flexible if he feels the need and capable of swallowing his pride, and has a major soft spot for his family. There were some serious depths there to explore. Just as Q knows every button to push with Picard and often has an inarguable point behind his arrogance, Jellico could've returned in season 7 and pushed every button on Riker in a similar way.

[@saiyansomething73]

The real issue is not Jellico's command style but the use of arguably Starfleet most distinguished command officer in an extremely risky covert mission. You're going to tell me Starfleet doesn't have personnel trained for black ops type missions? Or that they would not trust Picard to handle Cardassians diplomatically or militarily? I also had the sense that part of Jellico's behavior had to do with short time he had to get ready. He might have had a lighter touch if he wasn't under such serious time constraints. And yeah, Riker did come off a bit bitchy.

[@puppetmasterey]

I think Admiral Hackett from Mass Effect, by way of the Arrival DLC, was in charge of that mission "Oh really, you have this extremely dangerous and risky mission, that if even the smallest detail goes wrong, it means all out war. Great, let me call the literal poster boy for the not military and let him lead half the bridge officers of the flag ship on that mission. What could go wrong?" And yes, I'm well aware it was a solo mission in Mass Effect. But thiers clear parallels here though. I agree with you on all other points. I think someone had an idea for "drama" and ran with it. Not a bad idea, it just fell flat.

[@lanceheaps581]

I agree had he had more time and became more comfortable with his subordinates he probably would have delegated more. It was clear most of the officers did not have the right mindset for a possible war. Like Geordi talking about him rerouting some power conduits will shut down some science departments. Jellico says we are not on a survey mission Geordi. I think Jellico did the right thing getting the Enterprise and the crew ready to fight. Just the humble opinion of this combat veteran.

[@thodan467]

i call that command style criminal irresponsible

[@35mm21]

Considering they use a science research vessel as a battleship to fight the Borg maybe they don't...

[@therealmckoy365]

I liked Jellico…no nonsense. “I don’t want to talk about it. Get it done.” I think once trust in each other was earned everything would’ve been fine.

[@BlackHoleForge]

Dude that is the first time I have ever seen Ric's face. I have fallen asleep to his voice so many times, but finally I can put a face to the voice.

[@OrangeRiver]

Ayyy

[@JamesMC04]

Captain Jellico was a welcome change from Captain Picard - at least for a while. I thought Riker behaved rather poorly, to say the least.

[@stevefowler2112]

Captain Jelicho hit very close to home for me, his leadership style and laconic personality traits were very much reminiscent of the commanders in the Marine Corps rifle companies which I served and the Executive/Management style at both Raytheon and Lockheed Martin during my 36 year career as an Aerospace Engineer in America's classified defense contractor world. All three organizations were very Mission focused and there wasn't time for hugs in seeking excellence amid Mission Success.

[@ZordaanTelevisioN]

If I ever own a big starship, Captain Jellico is the first guy I'll try to hire to command it.

[@paradoxchild01]

I found his request to Troi to change into a normal uniform at first crass, but after it made Jellico’s knowledge of the Cardassians deeper. He would have read logs on all the senior officers, and seen how many times Troi had been attacked, his request was for her benefit, not regulation. Jellico did a lot of his decisions out of fear, but he also had way more information than anyone on the Enterprise had. He had been dealing with the Cardassians for years.

[@OtherWorldExplorers]

This a military opinion. I served in the Navy from 90 to 96 He did nothing wrong. It's perfectly normal for a new CO to come in and shake things up. He wants to see what the crew can do. He wants to see how well you can perform under pressure. Especially with the fact that they were going to be heading in a potential war. He needed to know what the crew was capable of. I keep seeing a lot of people talk about trust. Remember everybody in Starfleet is a volunteer. You immediately placed your trust in Starfleet and its decisions. If you have a problem with that get out of Starfleet.

[@thod8820]

This is a crazy crossover of Trektube personalities, amazing work bringing this all together!

[@rolandpalacios1397]

No kidding, pretty damn cool.

[@Insightfill]

I love it. I get to see all of my favorites, and find some new ones too.

[@shibolinemress8913]

I think people sometimes forget that Jellico was a man on a hopefully temporary mission. There was a job to do and at that point he really didn't have time to develop relationships with the crew. He was far too busy trying to prevent a war. In his eyes, he had to get the crew more battle ready in case the negotiations broke down, and everything else had to take a back seat. Had the posting become permanent, there would have been ample time for both sides to adjust, and for those who didn't like it to transfer out. Should he have been a bit more understanding? Sure. Was he reasonable in making the changes he ordered? Absolutely. To quote a certain other captain, "I'm not Picard!" 😊

[@Transilvanian90]

Aside from the obvious plot-related problem of sending 3 senior officers into harm's way and potential capture (it would be like sending your Fleet Admiral, ship Captain and Air Group Commander from the USS Enterprise in 1942 to scout out Guadalcanal ahead of the invasion... the risk of capture and compromising too much would simply be unacceptable), there's the added problem of lost inefficiency. If you overhaul your ship's chain of command so radically right before a potentially critical moment, you risk your crew not knowing what to do. Sure, they're trained, but they're unused to the new captain and circumstances, which isn't helped by Jellico's radically different approach and stubbornness in executing his approach.

[@wompastompa3692]

Jellico: "Do your job." Riker: "AAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!"

[@OrangeRiver]

If only it were that simple

[@DreadPirateDoug]

I think it's worth mentioning that this is the Starfleet flagship. This isn't just a random ship in the fleet, this crew (aside from Barclay) are the best of the best at their jobs. I think that deserves some consideration. That being said, Starfleet is a military (fight me, yes it is), so he had the responsibility to run things in the best way possible, based on his considerable experience. But when he needed to swallow his pride and ask a VERY smug Ryker for help, he did what needed to be done for the sake of the mission. As an officer, I'd give him 4/5 stars.

[@irregularassassin6380]

By and large, I agree. Both the Enterprise's crew and Jellico made mistakes in their approaches. It's basic team dynamics stuff. They just spent a tremendous amount of time in the "storming" phase because two egos were clashing. What I will contend is your assertion that Reginald Barclay is not the best of the best. After the events of "Hollow Pursuits," Barclay is a stellar officer every single time he's on-screen. From outwitting Moriarty in "Ship in a Bottle," to successfully contacting Voyager in "Pathfinder," Barclay is a winning officer. He's also an excellent holoprogram author, managing to continue working with the medium even after overcoming his addiction to it. That's honestly impressive levels of willpower and self-determination. I'd have him on my crew in a heartbeat.

[@DreadPirateDoug]

@irregularassassin6380 Your Barclay argument is solid, but I do think Starfleet HR might need to send around a memo about locking the holosuite when having *certain* kinds of fun.

[@irregularassassin6380]

@@DreadPirateDoug Yeahhh... That might be a good idea.

[@BainesMkII]

What I wonder is what Riker would have done if Jellico *hadn't* swallowed his pride? It honestly doesn't look great for Riker regardless. If Jellico actually was too emotional or otherwise not qualified for his position, then Riker's smug "Just ask" could have sent Jellico over the edge, causing Jellico to reject Riker and go with a less skilled pilot, which in turn would have put everyone at risk. Riker's smug response only works if Riker was certain Jellico was indeed a competent and capable captain, but that again raises the question of why Riker had been (and continued to be) so insubordinate.

[@DreadPirateDoug]

@@BainesMkII excellent point!

[@jayt1077]

I know that the Enterprise crew was used to concerts in 10-Forward up to that point, but with a possible war about to break out, I don't see how Jellico was wrong to push for greater preparedness in a short time frame. He's not Captain Picard, but he is a Captain, and he had every right to ask for and expect a 4 shift rotation and to upbraid Riker for insubordination.

[@keitht24]

Captain Jellico was right! Riker was an insubordinate, childish jackass. Jellico knew they could quickly find themselves in a warzone & he didn't have time to make niceties with the crew. The ship needs to made ready & this was on a short notice.

[@rolandpalacios1397]

Finally we get to see what certifiably ingame looks like.

[@MatthewDickson-p9t]

Why does Starfleet assign only three people to a major spec ops mission? Also, they held a Change of Command Ceremony: something not done for temporary commands. The big problem here is Riker who forgot how to be a first officer!

[@ericstaples7220]

1. TV shows have limited time and budgets. 2. The ceremony was done for the audiences benefit and understanding. 3. You're right. Riker should have mutinied...

[@doct0rnic]

It was done for show but also in case Picard wouldn't return

[@d00mf00d]

Jellico and more than likely star fleet command believed the Enterprise needed more discipline . Bridge officers wearing casual uniforms, the chief engineer modifying the warp drive without approval, the first officer allowing his uh pelvis to almost put the ship into the hands of aggressive aliens were signs there was something afoot.

[@OrangeRiver]

Lmfao

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Picard & Beverly being sent on a special ops mission doesn't make much sense

[@mephistoxarses8585]

I can imagine Jellico transporting back over to the Cairo and breathing a deep sigh of relief....."Thank god THAT's over!"

[@TheSolidSnakeOil]

Jellico was a good captain, just different from Picard. Riker was being a diva. Jellico had lower himself, go to Riker and beg him to do his job. Being Starfleet, i even expected him to be the bad guy in that episode. Ronny Cox is THE bad guy actor.

[@xxlCortez]

You're forgetting that Jellico started the "let's drop the ranks, so I can tell how I feel about you."

[@tylerjpilkinton]

Wow this OrangeRiver guy really makes some good points! Longtime viewer here commenting for engagement! P.S. Not a bot I'm just watching on my other account lol

[@thebagnechannel3183]

Jellico came in to prepare the Enterprise for battle. If it means a four rotation shift so no one is tired after working more than six hours in a high stress environment, the counselor doesn’t dress like a cheerleader, and people immediately follow his commands, that’s fine. And ultimately he successfully got the Cardassians to withdraw and Picard back.

[@RilianSharp]

in-universe, him criticizing someone's clothing is just him being controlling for no reason. and making changes to people's sleep schedules right before a batlle is not gonna help anything.

[@thebagnechannel3183]

@@RilianSharp I don’t see it that way. The Enterprise needed to become a military vessel, which requires the formalities of everyone being in proper uniform. I cannot analogize real military doctrine to a three shift rotation versus four in a fictional universe, but if Jellico thought it would make people more prepared for battle, it was the right call to do it immediately.

[@RilianSharp]

@@thebagnechannel3183 why does him wanting it that way make you think it was the right call? he could just be bad at his job. uniforms are stupid. they don't help.

[@thodan467]

Bullshit Changing the sleep pattern has on the short run only negative consequences

[@thodan467]

@@thebagnechannel3183 I hear the modern prussian officer corps laughing

[@jba2048]

I’m not sure if I commented on this yet. I have some experience on a United States Navy ship, and Jellico handles himself like a military commander. He’s not tyrannical. He has been given orders from his superior officers to take command of a ship, prepare it for a possible military confrontation, and engage in negotiations with a hostile military force. He is successful with achieving the objectives provided by his commanding officers regardless of the blatant insubordination of his executive officer. He carries a degree of professionalism and confidence, as to be expected by an officer of his position. He listens to and respects the input provided by his department heads, and although he may make decisions contrary to their advice, he is the captain. He listens to the chief engineer’s advice but doesn’t take overworking the crew in hostile territory as an excuse to not have engines at peak efficiency. Makes perfect sense to me taking additional duty shifts in a possible combat situation. When the counselor expresses concern of crew morale he takes it seriously and delegates authority to handle the matter to her, the appropriate department head. When the plan of mining the nebula is provided to him, he sees it as a great plan that will give them a tactical advantage to completing their mission he accepts the advice and follows through. When he is advised the best man for the mission is the insubordinate officer he had to relieve of duty, he puts his pride aside and asks the officer to accept the mission. Other things to point out, he has been given a crew of explorers and so, yes, this is a shake up for them but they are professionals and pull themselves together to complete the mission. If I were a crewman on this ship facing down a possible military confrontation, I would want Jellico as my captain. TLDR : Enterprise, it’s time to put on your big boy pants and be professionals; this is not a drill.

[@maz031]

Another point to consider is that Jellico knew he was going to be taking command of the flagship, with (arguably) the most elite crew in starfleet, who have been working together for years. There may have been an intimidation factor for Jellico that he wanted to overcome in the early stages of transistion. And so Jellico would have to take control quickly and decisively, cementing his authority within an existing subculture, even to the point of disrupting the subculture of the ship.

[@bumbleguppy]

Power move, head that off at the pass...I can see that.

[@singletona082]

Also, it would make him easing off on the whip feel more like him coming to a middle ground as opposed to him getting essentially ragdolled by the crew that in his mind couldh ave gone 'THIS IS HOW WE DO THINGS HERE.' I still say exicution fell flat on its face, but I can see the rational behind it.

[@Reddotzebra]

I'd also say that he was unsure if he could have used any other method to ease transition since every member of the crew was going to compare him to Picard no matter what happened. He tried his best with the tools available.

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

​The most elite crew in starfleet couldn't handle being told to dress in uniform and shift their work schedule by a couple hours?

[@maz031]

@@DrinkyMcBeer i didnt see Troi having any problem wearing her uniform, and she continued to do for the rest of the series. As far as the 4 shift rotations, it wasnt that they couldnt handle it. It actually meant fewer hours per crewperson, but more staffing, which may have been logistically more difficult than "get it done" becaus ei think the problem was how soon Jellico want the shift change implemented. Not impossible, but definitely a flex on thw crew as a whole

[@Reddotzebra]

It makes perfect sense to put the one person that has both up to date information on Cardassian diplomacy and an innate understanding of their mindset in charge of the operation. In fact, I think it's his familiarity with their mindset that makes him so unpopular, the guy thinks like a Cardassian, and they are so different from the cozy and coddled Federation that he would come as a shock to any Starfleet officer. What I don't understand is why they ever signed off on Picard being part of special ops, he is way too important and possess way too much information to ever allow him to be captured by the enemy.

[@antimatterhorn]

Jellico's demands were in service of his misgivings about his own readiness for what he was going into. He defends completely altering the Enterprise by saying that it is better preparing it for conflict, but it's more important that it conform to his comfort level so that /he/ is prepared for conflict. And this isn't even really subtext. He says repeatedly that this is how /he/ does things on /his/ ship, not how the Federation does things, and Troi reveals that Jellico is not confident in the slightest. Since Star Trek goes to great lengths to put emphasis on the captain's role in a conflict over the ship, it makes sense in-universe that he would view his own comfort/preparedness as paramount over the crew's, and this episode was mainly an exploration of that tension - that for so long in Star Trek, the captain's instincts were given a greater emphasis than the crew's cohesion, and now we were seeing the complete dissolution of a crew when that was taken to its logical end-point.

[@irregularassassin6380]

Great analysis. A near-lampshade deconstruction of the franchise's core tropes. Never looked at it that way before!

[@luzhang2982]

Except, he was ordered to do those things by SF to do those things. He was executing orders from above. Its not his personal decision, its orders from above, and Jellico is doing what he's ordered to do with Starfleet Command's full confidence

[@irregularassassin6380]

@@luzhang2982 Jellico was ordered to take command of the _Enterprise_ and negotiate with the Cardassians. Those were his orders. Starfleet did not tell him _how_ to command the Enterprise, nor how exactly to negotiate. The crew rotation, Troi's uniform, his belligerence at the negotiating table, those were all on him.

[@beezelbuzzel]

I'm think I'm pretty close to Rowan J Coleman on this one. Jellico is certainly a hard ass, but that has its advantages. Immediately shaking things up and laying down the law seems pretty reasonable to me. As the replacement captain of the flag ship in a tense diplomatic situation, you'd want everyone alert and a little on edge. Starfleet officers aren't going to faulter under that sort of pressure, they're going to rise to the occasion. And honestly, as he was chosen to help with the initial treaty and replace Picard, Jellico has to be one of the better Starfleet captains. Edit: Also, it's insanely awesome that you got all these wonderful creators on board for this video! Good on you man!

[@OrangeRiver]

I thought Rowan had some great zingers, to be sure :D Really glad I got him for this discussion!

[@Space_tec_99]

New OrangeRiver Video, always the Highlight of my Day :) Edit: From Highlight of the Day, to Highlight of my Day

[@ericstaples7220]

Regardless, this idea for a video was really good. This episode might be the most controversial episode in the series, between the fans who think Jellico is a phony and the ones who think his actions are justified.

[@fightthepowerman]

Best part of Jellico was that ball he threw for those poor street cats. The Jellico ball they called it.

[@TheGerkuman]

Man, Jellico's cats could, and in fact, did.

[@emmanuelotamendi9583]

The true villain here was Ryker. Because this were extremely dangerous circumstances. So Jellicos job was to make sure that the crew went from a family crewed exploration ship to a warship because if human negotiations failed, Klingon negotiations were to follow. And he had a few days to get the crew and ship combat ready while he was trying to defuse the situation and try to get Picard back either by politics or covert means. So Ryker's job, HIS ONLY JOB was to become a liason between Jellico and the crew assuring the crew that the job was gonna be hard but they are the crew of the Enterprise and Jellico is the captain in command so it was time to get to work. Instead Ryker start to behave as a petulant child lowering trust on the commander and lowering morale while adding stress to Jellicos already extremely hard job. I legit couldn't see Ryker the same way after that episode.

[@Lennis01]

I blame the writers more than Riker himself. His reactions as a trained military professional just were not believable in this episode.

[@GadZookz]

Great episode, Thanks! Riker was the bad guy in this two part episode, not Jellico. Just because Jellico wants to do things differently doesn’t entitle Riker to throw a fit.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

Riker's reactions were in line with his ethics, if that's an appropriate word, but I do agree his reactions were dialled up to 11 for this episode.

[@JohnSmith-rw2yn]

because Riker was allowed on the holodeck or a nearby planet for some RnR, the ladies were kept waiting too long 😂

[@GadZookz]

@@jamesabernethy7896 the story was very good overall but the whole conflict between River and Jellico seemed like filler. Unless Jellico was issuing illegal orders, which he wasn’t, Riker should have obeyed. The idea that Riker was the best man for the job to fly the shuttle mission seemed silly as well. Surely could have found better things for these guys to do than fight.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

@@GadZookz I agree, I court martial or severe disciplinary procedure would be warranted. You've got to think of how his experience on the Pegasus effected him. People following orders that get other good officers killed. Although clandestine in nature, there was still a command structure.

[@neodigremo]

When does he throw a fit? The only time he shows that kind of emotion is when he is discussing Picard being treated as a POW, which is an emotional moment. The rest of the time he is doing his job to the best way he knows how. He obeyed all the orders given even if he disagreed with them.

[@mandolinman2006]

One thing to remember, Picard told Jellico to give Riker a chance. He said he didn't have the luxury of time to do so. He was having to get a new ship ready for war with no time to prepare. If he explained what was going on, people would've been ok with it. But he either couldn't or didn't feel safe in telling others.

[@jameskelly3502]

The 4 shift rotation makes a lot of sense to me. If war comes, it will come fast. Having only a 6 hr shift, instead of 8 hr, will help keep the crew fresh and rested for the hardship ahead. Captain Jericho gave his 1st officer an order, and he dragged his feet. Should Captain Jericho expect this same thing to happen in a crisis? I have to side with Captain Jericho.

[@paultharaldsen723]

As a combat vet I now support jelico where as I didn't when I was younger and had never been to combat. Jelico is the axact type of leader you want in combat. Able to understand when he needs something from someone, and when to punish someone (both riker) . But also to understand what it takes to be combat ready, which is something you don't really understand until your a leader in a military organization getting ready for combat, and see the huge holes in your prior training. As viewers we connect dots that aren't there, thus is the flag ship of the federation, but how many combat drills are they doing? How long does it take for of duty personnel to report to battle stations? Or to sober up from there time at ten forward? These things cost lives, and these things I never thought about before my time in the military.

[@JimNH777]

I wanted to comment but I see Brie from TrekCulture at 14:00 says more or less what I wanted to say :) Enterprise was exploration starship and Jellico had to instantly transform it into full-blown combat-ready military machine. So Picard was a perfect captain for exploring and dialogue with other civilizations but Jellico for negotiations and potential war, especially with Cardassians. Moreover, the argument can be made 6 hours shifts were also better suited for war - doubling the personnel or replacing people killed in action was much easier. That's a little bit like asking your boss if you can go home early on Friday. Just because there's work to be done and he says 'absolutely not' does not make him an asshole. Just because there's nothing to do and he says "sure, just go" does not make him your friend or a nice person. In the military-like structure, which is not based on profit, but mission and task on hand, it's even more apparent. Was he an asshole though? Probably :D But imho in this situation they needed an asshole in charge. For me the peak of Star Trek chain of command is the scene when Data reminds Worf who's in command. But Jellico unlike Data couldn't rely on respect and authority which comes from time and builds upon decisions made earlier. He was an outsider with no link to the crew. So for him to usurp authority he had to be decisive and put people 'in their place'. From our point of view, people who knew Riker, it looked different. For him he could not allow possible scenario when he will say 'fire' and first officer will question his order. We know and assume Riker would never do that. But Jellico didn't know that, and Riker didn't give him any reason to fully trust him in obeying his orders.

[@devinthunderstrike]

It seems like everyone is forgetting the situation they were in. The situation forced certain commands.

[@GopherBaroque61]

Tyler, I'm hurt that you didn't reach out to me, since I've been a Star Trek fan since the very beginning and being a US Air Force Veteran, have vast military experience. You have forever scarred me! Edit: I'm sorry if the sarcasm isn't evident.

[@bumbleguppy]

As a vet, do you think the ordinary fan might miss the subtext of Jellico being an experienced war vet himself? That he comes from maybe years of fire fights with the Cardassians in the past so his command style is going to reflect that?

[@GopherBaroque61]

@@bumbleguppy You understand what sarcasm is, right?

[@bumbleguppy]

@@GopherBaroque61 sorry

[@donatoferioli7426]

Jellico is a fine officer. He's not one to suffer niceties. His last command ran like Clockwork. Especially after he had half the deckhands flogged.

[@KingOfMadCows]

Jellico was preparing the crew to deal with the Cardassians. If the crew couldn't handle their captain using an authoritarian command style, how can they deal with a militaristic authoritarian government that sends negotiators who are extremely arrogant and unreasonable?

[@ericstaples7220]

Their captain should be creating a cohesive relationship with his crew to prepare them for war. He's not a drill instructor and it wasn't the appropriate time to break his crew down either.

[@ramirostryker]

Jellico was also preparing the crew of a peace time fleet for a potential combat environment. If he had to be a dick so be it. Change is never easy but the crew of the flag ship should be able to handle stress and adapt to a new command style.

[@stevencoardvenice]

Exactly Exactly Exactly. Imagine dealing with the Jemhedar with all these sensitive whiny officers

[@paulrasmussen8953]

​@stevencoardvenice they fought the borg. Again his executiins is his biggest flaw

[@Wolf_Dominic]

I think it’s funny how there was only one person that was completely on Jellico’s side. Everyone else was mostly mixed, and those were the ones I mostly agreed with. I feel this was a situation that was far more complex than him simply being in the right or wrong. I don’t hate him, but I do understand why the crew, (especially Riker) didn’t like him. It’s not difficult to see why.

[@singletona082]

Hey Tylor, Guy here. I've waffled one way or the other on Jellico over the past thirty years. On the one hand: * Immediate sweeping changes that then cascade into needing to make more changes to adjust for him by appearances ignoring his XO's advice and experiance with this crew and how they have functioned as a cohesive unit for years together in frankly weird and unusual situations. * Dismissive, demeaning, 'my way or the highway' Coward's idea of what a 'strong man' is. * Seemed personally offended whenever his ego was even the slightest bit poked or his position was at all questioned. On the other: * he put Troi in a proper fucking uniform, and frankly she not just looked better for it, but was more professional appearing i nthe process. Nevermind the show treated it as a BAD thing. The space onsies frankly were rediculous and I wish she'd STAYED in proper uniform. * Probably had a plan in mind for keeping the crew off balance. Rather than coming in bluster and 'this ship could glass your homeworld and you can't do a thing to stop us' he played to Cardassian's psychology by presenting the federation as disorganized, scared, nervous. Thus causing the Gaul he was negociating with to overplay his hand and unintentionally give a lot away. * Was absolutely correct in that mounting a rescue mission would ABSOLUTELY risk further complications with the cardassians at a critical time, but did eventually relent when he had enough credit and clout to get Picard back without starting an international incident. In case it isn't clear. I fucking hate the man. He's a narssicistic bully who wants everything his own way and damned what anyone else says for daring to not snap to a salute. It's a weak man's idea of what a 'strong man' looks like anda coward's idea of what bravery is. His methodology isn't without merit, and as i pointed out he DID have reasons. However not letting command staff in on thigns so that they could further assist is a heavy mark against him, especially given Riker's history and personal loyalties. Jellico was inflexible and frankly a detestable man I would never want to have anything to do with. Yet he also gets results.

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

"Jellico was inflexible and frankly a detestable man I would never want to have anything to do with. Yet he also gets results." This is why I think he was good for the time he was there. He was basically the federation's fixer. He didn't need or want anyone to like him. He just needed them to do what had to be done to solve the problem he was there to solve.

[@singletona082]

My issue,@@DrinkyMcBeer is that 'Not here to make friends' tends to be code for 'I am an asshole I revel in BEING an asshole and you WILL like me for it or you WILL be removed.'

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

@@singletona082 um yeah. Hes an asshole, maybe. That's basically just personal opinion. He doesnt care what people think? Sure, but what's it matter when you have just one job to do, and then you're gone. He will remove you if you get in his way? Sure. He has one freaking reason for being there. Why would he allow one man to stand in the way of doing what he needed to do? All Riker needed to do was his job. When the captain says "I want X thing done", his job is to make it happen. He addressed his concerns to the captain, who considered them and then said "I still want it done." Riker should have just changed the damn crew rotation. Instead he made himself look entirely inept to his new captain. First impressions are important, especially when you lack the luxury of a good deal of time to really sus out each person's true identity. Riker made himself look lazy and incompetent.

[@canalesworks1247]

I mostly agree with you. To me Jellico's worst moment is when he realizes that he needs Riker for his mission to work and then insults him anyway. What an ass. If he had just said: "Look Commander. We got off on the wrong foot, but you are the best pilot on the ship and I need you. My plan is the best way to take the Cardassians out and demand Captain Picard back if it works. Will you do it?" Riker would have said "yes sir" and snapped to it without any further blowback. I liked Troi's jumpsuits, so Jellico gets no points from me for that, but she did happen to stay in regulation dress for the rest of the series.

[@singletona082]

@@canalesworks1247 I mean the jumpsuit works as occasion, but i'm glad for the changeover. I just... forgot that they actually went with the actual uniform after that.

[@7ofnyan420]

You are quickly becoming my favorite trek youtuber and bringing on some of my other favs was amazing!!!!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you so much!

[@danielpaquet3963]

its good to see the face of Certifiablyingame he should be on camera more often

[@Lennis01]

Yeah, I always pictured him as being older.

[@mmmmmduffbeer]

A four shift rotation, where you have each shift pulling doubles, frees up a third of the crew while maintaining the same staffing as a three shift rotation. Everyone ends up being 12 on - 12 off with half being on their first six and half being on their second six. It makes sense to free up a third of the crew, especially since there don't seem to be marines on board so more security may be necessary for attacking enemy installations during a war.

[@ryanscuderi5488]

You have to wonder if the intention with Jellico was to make people dislike him with his sudden shift in everything the crew was doing at the time. It would have been interesting to have Riker balk at his requests and ask how he'd feel if someone came to his ship and did the same thing. Obviously Jellico was the B-plot of the two episodes so there wasn't really any time to focus on his behavior, but it would've been nice for there to be some sort of climax with it and maybe have him realize his "unsuredness" was what was causing him to be such a dick.

[@singletona082]

Much as i dislike the man (and i've made that clear in my own response,) there was potential there for him to come to a middle ground. Had he been more communicative at least with the senior staff and been willing to meet with department heads. Sure the end result is still an immediate four shift with personnel assignments, but it's a diffrence between 'My Way. NOW.' and 'This is what i need this is why I need it. What do you need to make that happen?' I feel had Jellico been on for, say, an entire season or even just a several episode arc we could have had a long running plot where he comes to terms with his own inflexibility in an evolving situation... and perhaps guilt over the treaty with a frankly inferrior power leading t opossibly giving them political clout on the galactic stage ('See! The Federation makes treaty with us! We are to be taken seriously!') Perhaps he feels lingering guilt over the border worlds situation and the maquis. Would've been interesting to look at.

[@ryanscuderi5488]

@@singletona082 Yeah, that's a really good summarization. It feels like it's just there to make you hate the substitute teacher for no real reason. Apparently Jellico goes on to get promoted so clearly whatever he's doing is working in some capacity, it would've been nice, as you said, to see him maybe adapt to whatever "modern" sensibilities he'd need to.

[@singletona082]

@@ryanscuderi5488 The problem is the abruptness. Frankly? Til he gets snippy over any sort of pushback? It's routine. Hell, them using Jelico as reason to put troi in a proper fucking uniform gives him a lot of credit. It's the fact he acted like a diva when it wans't all his own way. Granted Riker also behaved badly when it was clear Jelico wasn't really going to listen to him, but I view that as riker's failing there. The initial misgivings and such though? Were fair. Riker was doing the XO's job.

[@ShadeUnderTheSoul]

I picked up on the possibility that Jellico was actually acting like a Cardassian, or at least had an edge about them to himself. Which makes sense since he was perfectly suited to dealing with them and had experience doing so.

[@jeffmartin5419]

What I'd really love to see is a Navy officer's thoughts on what kind of officer Jellico is.

[@stevencoardvenice]

Me too. I want to see officers who've served in wartime

[@vishnu79]

I wasn't Navy, and I wasn't an officer. But if it matters, from a US Army sergeant's perspective, I'd rather have a Jellico than a Picard any day. By the time this episode takes place, Picard had been in command for years. He was actively friends with most of his command staff. And I mean, like, personal friends. Picard was shown repeatedly to be a diplomat first, warrior/soldier second. And when you're at peace, that's fine. You can even get away with being more personable with your subordinates in peacetime. Jellico was clearly shown to be a far more aggressive leader than Picard, he was also a lot more decisive than Picard, and in many ways, impersonal. This is crucial in combat. The vast majority of tasks you will carry out while being "in charge" in a military unit (and yes, Starfleet IS a military, Picard is wrong/in denial on that point) will basically boil down to either doing things you do not want to do, or ordering other people to do things that they do not want to do. If I am tasked with clearing a safe path through a potential minefield, or canvas a convoy route for IED's and I have no other tool to complete that mission than to assign a couple of troopers to clear the field manually or walk forward escort on the convoy, then the entire unit NEEDS to know that I do not care about them, as people. They NEED to know that I did NOT assign that duty to the two guys that have given me (the boss) the most grief over the last two or three weeks. They NEED to know that I did not NOT CHOOSE the two guys that I get along with the most, or the two guys that maybe helped me out with something in the past. The unit, as a whole, MUST believe that I am an uncaring, emotionless machine that will equally and fairly send them to do something that will likely result in their deaths, not because I like or dislike certain of them over others, but because I have, as their leader, calculated that the best chance of mission success relies on the troopers I send out to walk the route or to clear the field to be the absolute best choice possible. ANY doubts that they may have will result in catastrophic loss of morale and every time I send someone to do something he's going to ask himself, "Did Sarge send me out here to get sniped because I caused him grief?" and the moment that that happens, the unit will no longer be able to trust me to spend their lives fairly. The extreme result of that doubt can result in something colloquially known as "fragging". Rule #3 of Being In Charge: Leaders lead, but they never forget that behind them are a lot of men who have been trained to kill, are armed, and you only have two eyes, and they aren't in the back of your head. Jellico is cold, decisive, experienced, impartial, mission-focused, and driven to succeed. His quality as a combat officer is far superior to Picard's. You never doubt exactly where you stand with Jellico, you never doubt that he will do whatever it takes to get the job done, and you never doubt that he made the most impartial choice of who gets to stay behind or who gets to take their chances with God, Murphy, and the enemy. When you're looking down the barrel of a hot war, that's some crucial stuff right there.

[@thodan467]

@@vishnu79 and criminal stupid, and a failure in leadership would you want to go into combat when your unit command refused to tell his XO and the other subleaders his intent? Who send the crew of your most important combat asset to stupid time wasting duties and replaced them with less experienced soldiers at best?

[@mignaultj]

I'm for Capt Maxwell. The man hated them, (Cardassians) but he was also right about them. It drives me crazy. It has for years.

[@pluto9000]

He's the guy that tries to erase that mistake. The mistake being using a human as part of a robotic law enforcement officer. 🤖

[@shirihotep3741]

Jelico did nothing wrong! He was the Captain and it was the crew's duty to carry his orders. Riker was insubordinate and deserved to be relieved of duty. Jelico also had tactical and combat experience on top of his diplomatic experience, lets not forget that this what saved the day in the end and lead to Picard's rescue didn't it? If anyone was at fault it was Admiral 'Bitchayev' and Starfleet Command for being duped by the Kardasians in the first place. It was Riker's job to manage to any personal problems from the new 4 shift rotation ordered by the captain. IMHO.

[@AzraelThanatos]

One other thing with it is that Picard has his own issues in the situation that would have made things harder for dealing with the Cardassians. Picard had known Bajoran sympathies there which could create it's own issues in the negotiations. Further, I think that Jellico had a different understanding of what was going to be happening. He saw the situation as a good chance of being ground zero for a war breaking out while Picard might end up dead and being stuck in the position there for it. He had to push the Enterprise to a more combat ready situation there

[@proterotype]

I like it when at the end of the episode Jellico starts telling people what to do in rapid succession. You can tell by look on the crews’ faces that they know this guy knows what he’s doing

[@thodan467]

why did he then did that the whole time

[@sherpajones]

5:45 IMO changing the shift rotation to 4 from 3 is about having a more rested crew if you are called to battle on a moment's notice. You aren't going to perform crew rotation in the heat of battle, so worst case scenario is your crew is nearing the end of a 4 hour shift when you go to red alert, as opposed to a 6 hour shift.

[@Aragorn7884]

I didn't like him because his ancestor was the evil head of OCP in Robocop 😉😏

[@janders79]

So, while a lot of the commenters passingly acknowledge the "military-like structure" of Starfleet, there's not a lot to be said for the actual experience of living the military lifestyle, which is one of change. This is a great pair of episodes, Cox is amazing, and all of this completely ignores David Warner and that damn egg, which is truly gripping. Letting that go, though, my point is that it's not even consistent with the rest of Trek for the crew to be so intransigent. They are on a spaceship whose mission is to find strange shit, and they can't hack a shift change? As if they don't happen on the regular, anyway? It might be one thing if it was a ship full of new recruits, but this is the flagship. The pissing match between Riker and Jellico should have been going on in the brig. Jellico shouldn't have ditched the aquarium, though, and that's no shit. That sent the message that they could forget about Picard, entirely, and there's a lot of ways that can be interpreted. They all suck. Maybe Jellico thinks Picard's not going to survive. Maybe Jellico thinks even if Picard does survive, he's going to get to keep the ship. Anyway you play it, though, it's a tiny thing, but it was probably his deepest tactical error in commanding that crew.

[@matthewpaine6908]

Speaking to the Crew and explaining to them the Enterprise was now a military Vessel and a full scale military conflict with the Cardassnians was likely, would have helped adjust the crew to his demands. Also temporary removing the civilian crew would have helped to this end.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

One should keep in mind that Jellico faces a serious challenge: negotiating with the Cardassians puts the Enterprise (and everyone aboard) at risk of being ambushed. While at the same time ruling out both retreat and preemtion options. So he has to demand absolute peak performance from everyone, NOW! Or in other words, a lot of the criticism ignores the crisis and asumes the usual push over antagonist of the week (you know the ones who cant do more demage then counting down shield strenght percentages).

[@Lennis01]

The problem was that Jellico's changes were reducing peak performance of the ship in a crisis situation. Lawful or not, that was the wrong call for Jellico to make. The time to make sweeping changes is NOT when your ship could be in a shooting war before tomorrow. Better to keep things as they are and use your command experience to adapt to the ship that you have, not the ship that you want. An officer of Jellico's experience should understand this.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

@@Lennis01 that's asuming the crew is realy good at their Job, an asumption that for example Comander Kurn of the klingon defense force (just to bring in a second opinion) would seem to disagree with.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

Jellico can look at all the technical specifications and understand them. The crew is the oil that makes the Enterprise work smoothly, by changing the crew schedule to such a degree, he is changing 4 stroke for 2 stroke. This was a vital time where they had lost 3 of those key officers already, it was vital in a developing situation to maintain a routine. If this was a shakedown cruise where they're not doing much for a couple of weeks... fine. If he's taking permanent command... fine. Short term. Certain requests are reasonable, reports from the department heads and Deanna, all rational requests. The argument that the Enterprise has perhaps got complacent in terms of being prepared for a large-scale conflict is also valid.

[@singletona082]

Agree on all counts. A lot of his 'demands' frankly WERE reasonable. It's just when he got any sort of pushback at all even in the form of explainations and requests for more time for the hcangeover is where he loses me and goes from 'reasonable' to 'dickhead.'

[@thodan467]

As one who has worked shift for over 30 years, the schedule change was criminal stupid. I wonder why the medical officer did not veto it

[@neodigremo]

@@singletona082 This is the best summary of my thoughts on the flaws in Jellico's style. He seems to have a hang up whenever anyone "challenged" him. Challenged as in did something a proper XO should do like go "Captain we have a lot of the heads of departments who are against this change for various reasons." to which he replies "don't care, do it anyway, I don't even want to hear about it"

[@DemonBlanka]

The crew were grumpy and complaining but they were doing good work, which is what Jellico needed for the time and unfortunately when you're in a tight situation that's often what's required. I can't say what he would/wouldn't do once the crisis is over since we're not shown it but I dont think its unreasonable to think he would've eased off the pressure later on, he seems smart enough to understand what that kind of environment would do long term to the crew. Riker's behaviour however was inexcusable, I'm reminded of Worf and Data's little argument when those two were put in the same positions. Riker's actions were borderline insubordination and he was that close to tanking te operation because he personally didn't like the man that Starfleet put in command of the situation. Main problem I have with this part of the 2 parter is how skewed the two sides of the conflict are, Jellico has so much more riding on this situation than the Enterprise crew but the show frames the conflict as equally balanced, it's a blemish on an otherwise flawless story.

[@nimblehealer199]

He was too by the book. He didn't have any flexibility. Although, he allowed Troi to develop as a character.

[@DanCojocaru2000]

That cannot be credited to him though. You can't really judge Jellico for out-of-universe outcomed. When he told Troi to put on a uniform, he didn't think "that will finally make the TNG writers know what to do with you".

[@Aracore]

I would also assume that the 4 shift rota weould be a pretty standardized thing in Starfleet (as would be the 3 shift rota, or even a 5 shift) so therefore it weould not be too unreasonable to expect a shift to be made easily.

[@phatphracker]

I served 24 years in the US Navy and from that perspective, there's nothing wrong with a new CO coming in to shake things, especially with the tasking given to him and the urgent timeframe. What was unacceptable was not explaining his intent and refusing to listen to the feedback of his key officers. They know the ship and the crew. If the crew, especially your officers and senior enlisted, do not understand the CO's intent, chaos ensues. As Riker put it he had the crew so wound-tight, there was no joy in doing anything. When your crew's running around afraid if what they're doing or how they're doing it is "right," it breaks the synergy of the team. No one person can run a ship or save the day. It takes a crew in lockstep. Jellico broke that unity. He failed. If I was advising his boss, his FITREP would not be good and his future command options limited.

[@thodan467]

yes, i say that to US military personnel for years.

[@singletona082]

Funny how often I see people going 'I was in [millitary branch] and Jellico is a 'proper' captain!!!!111ONE' yet they completely sweep aside the fundimental flaw. Him making changes were well within his scope of authority and there were merits in changing gears for a potential conflict. What wa unacceptable wasn't letting senior staff/department heads in on intent so that if... say... the new captain gets taken out that intent can still be carried out. He activly antagonized key personnel and the only reason Data was as docile as he was, I feel, was he probably went under the idea that 'I have no true feelings to hurt. I can take the abuse others might buckle under and hopefully filter this man's caustic attitude into something the crew will be able to work with as it comes from a familiar and hopefully trusted face.' All that said? Putting Troi in a proper uniform was a godsend.

[@Ilix42]

Even watching during the original airing as a kid, I always felt like the Enterprise was far from a professional, military ship, so this always felt like a clash of the more military side of Star Fleet vs the more relaxed, exploration and diplomacy side.

[@jhonbus]

I think the best way of approaching this topic, as is the case in real world examinations of leadership, is to focus primarily on outcomes. Whether you view Jellico as tyrannical or the Enterprise crew as unprofessional, the outcome is what matters. Unfortunately in this situation we don't get to discover the long term outcomes, since Picard is reinstated and things go back to normal, but we can make some reasonable predictions. In the timeframe of the episode we see that while Jellico is able to implement most of his command decisions and achieve his intended outcomes, he has to do so quite forcibly against significant resistance from the crew. While butting heads with one or two crewmembers might be to be expected, the almost universal opposition he faced, even having to dismiss the person who was supposed to be his executive officer, should have raised a red flag in Jellico's mind. Towards the end of the episode his decisions begin to have a detrimental effect on his ability to complete the mission - having dismissed Riker he is dependent on the goodwill of someone who is effectively a third party. In other words having squandered his resources he has to rely on something outside of his control to complete the mission he has been assigned. That's not good. I think we can easily surmise that had he remained in command, there would have been a continuing reduction in the crew's motivation and buy-in. This is something we see a lot in the real world and it ends up with your talented staff seeking better recognition elsewhere by quitting or transferring, leaving a core of unmotivated and untalented crew who either don't care about their jobs or can't leave.

[@thodan467]

I judge Jellico against men like Blücher, Moltke, and von Seeckt

[@shelsilverstein7436]

This was like the flippin Avengers EndGame of Trektube

[@OrangeRiver]

😀

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

Better the crew come to terms with being on a war footing prior to being in the middle of it, rather than having to make those changes while also trying to defend their homeworlds.

[@stevencoardvenice]

Data behaved the same way as jellico when he took command of that small ship, and we love it

[@thodan467]

Data was totally inexperienced in real command and made mistake after mistake after mistake what was Jellicos excuse

[@stevencoardvenice]

@@thodan467 he made no mistakes. He exposing the romulans

[@thodan467]

@@stevencoardvenice he made a lot of mistakes like not communicating his plans with his XO, like micromanaging and mondaymorningquarterbacking him....

[@stevencoardvenice]

@@thodan467 did we watch the Same episode? What are u talking about

[@thodan467]

@@stevencoardvenice I talk about criticizing his XO for doing his duty, not informing that he planned to activate the "depoisining" the area himself(what would have happened if Data could not do that)

[@CaptainKwame1773]

I agree with Rowan here: Jellico did nothing wrong or unreasonable. He took command of the Enterprise, and with that comes the entire man and his style. The Enterprise was his to command, not Riker's, not how it was when Picard was in command. Could you imagine someone telling Picard how to command his ship? While Starfleet is an exploration entity, it is nevertheless the military wing of the Federation, and this suggests a rank hierarchy. The only question we should be asking is whether his commands and orders were legal and lawful, and seeing that they were, there's little we can debate beyond other Captains having different styles. I actually like Jellico's style, and I would serve under him quicker than I would other minor Captains we've seen.

[@DanCojocaru2000]

This is a very "beatings will continue until morale improves" attitude. If you make your crew wish you would die in your sleep, and, as a result, make them less productive under your command, are you a good commander? Just because he did everything legally, it doesn't mean he did everything appropriately.

[@DwightMoses]

I agree. In fact, and this position is likely to be unpopular; but true nevertheless, Riker, through his behavior would be a risk to the mission. He is aware (paying attention to his previous interactions with Ro Laren) that the Rank structure exists because it not only works, but works well. His antagonistic conduct toward his Captain in this context is great for the story but not very realistic, especially for a seasoned career officer.