The Astrology of the AIDS Pandemic (Saturn conjunct Pluto)

[@paulmagus2133]

I lived through the start of this pandemic and had lovers and friends die eventually in the 1990's of aids related illness. I applaud you both for your sensitive treatment and factual research on the subject. I can empathise with Gary and sense his emotions held back so the astrological and social history can be told from an astrological perspective. this was a deeply emotional episode for me and i am grateful x

[@Maya-hw9ch]

This was riveting. I was on the edge of my seat during this whole video. From the modern historical recounting and bringing it into current events. I feel like I’ve gained so much from this video. Thank you so much. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽😢

[@jennyd_1111]

Thank you for making this important episode

[@Cali-at-the-beach]

We all know Chris is a scholar and knows more than most anyone. Well, here is one of the rare guests, Gary Lorentzen who knows his Astro info incredibly in depth and is an able communicator....well, I think he is just a slightly older Chris! Tho, Gary DOES have more hair. So, perhaps they are different people. All kidding aside, such a great episode with two amazing scholars. Thank you for all you both do. -Cali

[@m.denonsens]

I thought I knew quite a lot about the AIDS crisis, but I never knew about this generational loss in the astrology community. So important to hear the history from a living witness, also a fine astrologer, before all this knowledge disappears. Thanks for a great episode.

[@LaDeeDah]

My mother worked for the BATF in the 90s and i loved going to work with her. ❤

[@mindyklotz6512]

This was such a great episode. Thank you Chris and Gary so much!! I was born in 1983 and this topic is dear to me too. My cousin did work for a Dr. Elvin Memory Lewis while she was in South America and around the same time of the Saturn/Pluto conjunction in 2020 he sent me an article about her work in 1982 involving biopsies she had saved from a case she had worked on in 1968. The patient was a boy named Robert Rayford, born 2/3/1953 in St. Louis, Missouri and 2 days before Saturn turned retrograde at the 27th degree of Libra. The same degree as the 1982 I think. He had become ill in 1966 and there was a Saturn/Pluto opposition on 2/20/1966. He checked himself into the hospital in 1968 and was very sick by that time. Rather heartbreaking especially considering he was only 15. He passed away on 5/15/1969 at 16 years old which was 5 days before Dr. Elvin's birthday 5/20/1933. She recognized the symptoms upon the discovery of AIDS and pulled his biopsies out of storage. The samples tested HIV Positive but then the samples were passed off to many other hands and it was never confirmed AIDS because the test that was ran for that was deemed invalid but it was positive and it certainly sounds like it was. The last of his biopsies were lost in Hurricane Katrina. Sorry, I have no birth times but it all certainly seems to me that it had been around for much longer. Robert Rayford would be having his Jupiter return tomorrow.

[@mindyklotz6512]

I apolpgize, it is Dr. Memory Elvin Lewis. I had her name swapped around. She is a pretty remarkable women.

[@sanbiggerstaff783]

WOW, This is really interesting! I was born in late June of 83 when Saturn & Pluto were nearly conjunct at 27 degrees libra. I never knew about 1953. My parents were born in 1954&55

[@mindyklotz6512]

@sanbiggerstaff783 Born just 3 months after me😁 It was only Saturn at 27° Libra in 1953 when Rayford was born. Pluto was in Leo then but my father, like your parents had me around the time of his Saturn return too. My Saturn is in Scorpio though where it went retrograde before entering back into Libra closer to your birth. Perfect timing for you to reply to this comment too!! I was just reading about the mines in the old town of Elvins, Missouri. One of the things about Rayford and living in St. Louis that raises my brow, is that he was just a block or two from the "Pruitt-Igoe" aka "The Projects" . Those people living there were one of the places where humans were being experimented on unknowingly of course. My father's first home was just blocks from there as well. Its a big rabbit hole just so you know. Memory Lewis Elvin makes no connection to that but still, I find it rather suspicious if you know what I mean.

[@ladytr0n]

Wow, thank you both so much for this very enthralling talk that is so valuable, even outside of any astrological context. I was not aware of many social and political aspects and dynamics that Gary could flash out in such a relatable manner. It is going to be interesting to see how we are going to look back on the (actually still ongoing) COVID pandemic i the future. I hope that at some point in our history there will be a similar level of awareness, activism in the form of groups like Act Up as well as political and medical action/progress.

[@nohelymelenciano]

This has been my favorite episode so far. Thank you thank you thank you Chris and Gary!!!!!!!🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@TMTgirl]

CAN'T WAIT TO LISTEN TO THIS ONE. I grew up in the 80s and 90s. It was so scary and confusing for a child. Made me even more empathic towards their struggles as gay men. 🌈 ❤️

[@mtmtmtmt]

I am straight, but this discussion touches me as I started my sex life in 1979 and have watched everything you have commented on. Fortunately in the 1990s the ministry of health of my country made access to anti-aids drugs available to all through the public health system, free care even to foreigners. TY.

[@nohelymelenciano]

Wow that’s incredible. May I ask what your home country is?

[@mtmtmtmt]

​@@nohelymelencianoBrazil.

[@SaraSeaGreen]

This was fascinating. I’ll be watching it again. PS - some of us would love a ~300 page book on the topic.

[@oddanneout]

Really wonderful discussion. Thank you!

[@BradfordMWagner77]

Thanks!

[@robbieteles]

Excellent and important discussion, thank you so much 🙏

[@rougenoir1990]

Funny, been thinking about this topic last night. Can't wait to get enlightened by your expertise, thank you!

[@amytamez]

By the way, my sister is HIV and she is healthier than me 😂, she got married had two kids and she is perfect. Her attitude towards life changed so much that now she is really living. She got it by a blood transfusion.

[@amytamez]

What an exposition! Awesome and revealing! I will hear it again because it is really eye 👁 opening. The best video ever! What a guest! Blessings from México 🇲🇽 🙏🏼♥️🙌🏼 you rock mister!

[@sagittariusmoon2884]

thank you Chris & Gary!

[@quil10it]

Thank you for this Very interesting talk.

[@tatisloveoth]

Entertaining and insightful episode, both astrologycally and historically speaking, thank you 🙏🏼

[@Cmrntylr]

This was a good episode. I’ve been “Astro-cranky” which is usually a sign I need to actually get involved again. I’ve been letting KZbin just play random just for background noise, when I noticed this was uploaded there was actually a TimCast playing where I was astounded that they actually believed homosexuality is a personal choice as if heterosexuality is. This is definitely a dark side of the free will view. I didn’t think people actually still believed that, but their belief that people could be “groomed” to be homosexual was … I can’t think of a polite way to say “dumb”. I suppose, free will being a masculine viewpoint/attitude, the belief that all is willed to power isn’t that surprising I suppose. A topic that was touched on, I’ll explain a point in a difficult way. I tried to read the corpus hermeticum during the year, but religious texts always give me this vibe of being trapped in a room with someone high on meth. Considering I already know so much about the topic, I know much of this is just translations. A podcast topic that comes up frequently is the importance of the translation and translator. With this, it applies to people also. When people bring up the “deep state”, you know you think the same thing of being trapped in a room with someone on meth. 😂 However, this just has its roots in a speech by Eisenhower on the biggest threat to democracy and the United States is the military industrial complex. This gained further steam within the progressive left with the assassinations of JFK, MLK JR, RFK, and other progressive leaders with poor explanations of their murders. The national security apparatus distrust was always left, THEN it suddenly became this right wing view. Even with vaccine hesitancy, a friend in florida said many of her right wing friends went to anti vaxx protests even though they were vaxxed and boosted 2-3 times. The only vaccine hesitant people I’ve met are progressive democrats who actually cited the AIDS epidemic as why they didn’t trust the government which was popularized more so with The Dallas Buyers Club. In other words, early treatment was more about spiking cost to the patient with treatments that were actually killing then faster than HIV. As mentioned, it was propagated as a disease only impacting those viewed as “deviants”. Homosexual populations, drug users, and poor black Americans. Anyways, what I found with this transit in that regard were people who struggled to articulate a problem who were often pushed into dark channels often to a sort of figure (like Alex Jones, for example) who kind of pushed them into this further edge. But it’s also a problem of the very sensationalized media coverage. It’s worse if you watched different sources where it’s like the coverage was intend to actually radicalize the public with carefully selected sensationalized stories. Better communication and better articulation would go a long way in terms of reaching more sanity, that’s my point. Considering I’ll be applying the 12 links to the core house system, the intro sounded like a really cool future episode. 2 things did eventually click during my astro break, both astrology and the 12 links would start at the ascendant (this initial system doesn’t use signs/planets). The next that clicked is this method emphasizes that consciousness is the ascendant, how the ascendant engages with conscious experience. But, mainly, this foundation is true about every single person. I used to tell people under stress with others to try to understand that the conscious self we view is US is true to everyone; you can argue our experience is experiencing different variations of ourselves in different circumstances. Short, try to treat others how you’d want to be treated. Or, call them a bad name and burn their house down. I’ll give this one a song. Poppy - Don’t Go Outside. Reminder, crazy was pre-pandemic.

[@marcospatchett]

Fantastic episode, very interesting!

[@TheHappySaturnian]

What an interesting topic

[@Gendergoblin123]

Thank you documenting our history. This is an important episode in the Astrology podcast canon. Chris, you treated this topic with delicacy and respect. Thank you.

[@nohelymelenciano]

Agreed!!

[@jayjames-e5q]

This episode ties in well with south node currently conjunct my pluto in Scorpio

[@dontnoable]

We lost a generation of who would have been our queer elders ❤💔❤️

[@dontnoable]

Act Up ❤❤❤

[@seagullsg784]

Chapters would be cool

[@ADanielle18]

Neptune in Capricorn sextile Pluto in Scorpio made the awareness more passive and people had a more laissez fare attitude about certain vices this aspected was good for the economy. However Neptune in Capricorn Gave our generation movies like Scarface and TV shows Like Dynasty that glamourised drugs and scandals (Neptune) and the imige of power and materialism (saturn/Capricorn) It's no mistake that during this conjuction crack cocaine was hitting the streets as well at the height of this conjuction. I believe these cycles will be something we 80s babies will live with throughout our lives

[@bloglivethehighve]

This is so cool💯 👍💫🙏

[@ginas399]

57:10 mark june 5th 1991 chart., the display said 1981. Was that right chart?

[@TheAstrologyPodcast]

I misspoke and meant to say 1981, the chart itself was correct though

[@MoistOnyo]

How to say eternal youth in Latin? Sorry Id love to learn but I don’t know Latin

[@TheAstrologyPodcast]

I think it is puer aeternus

[@reducetheatoms]

Summary : Its Pluto's fault

[@LaDeeDah]

Always is