Count God's Blessings & Ignore All The Immoral Stuff | Kevin-GA | Atheist Experience 25.33

[@redwineisfine]

Isn't it weird that god always needs humans to do everything for it? Have its child Fight its wars Spread its word Write its books Cure its believers Build its houses Collect money for it Prove its existence Weird right?

[@david2869]

and the humans that follow demand that god be credited with all of the above.

[@joecoolioness6399]

It's almost like he doesn't exist

[@ericscaillet2232]

Hmm, what is really weird is that we can only use stuff that we cannot create and only immitate crudely.

[@MasterSpade]

That's the beauty of inventing gods. Even when CLAIMED to be All Powerful, they can do anything we Humans cannot. BUT... they never do anything we Humans CAN do. How convenient. Also, convenient that before the time of cell phone cameras, there were Miracles EVERYWHERE. But now..... Nada.

[@brucebaker810]

God...is a dependent!

[@Dumbstuffwatcher]

I like how this guy just shrugs and says "Yeah, maybe God's an a@&hole, but he's holding all the keys, what are ya gonna do?" It's at least somewhat honest, much more so than a lot of theists I've heard

[@nahhfam7678]

"Well the villain looks pretty powerful so let's go home." - Said no hero ever.

[@augusthome9860]

I love your answer!

[@vebdaklu]

In fictional stories, yes. In Real life, people back off even from those who have less power than themselves. And in this particular case, the villain is not just "pretty powerful", but all-powerful, infinitely more powerful than even the most powerful of us, and defying him would mean infinite torture and nothing else, no merit whatsoever. Now, as an atheist, I don't buy that crap, but I can find the position of a genuine believer sympathetic - imagine being 100% convinced that there is a slave master who offers either slavery or infinite constant torture, and that the slave master is untouchable by any means. In that case, it would be totally understandible that a believer would shield himself from reason and try to convert others. Rebellion only makes sense when there is an acheivable goal at the end - anything else is just suicidal with no purpose behind it.

[@LeftfootofOrion]

@@vebdaklu In real life people absolutely stand up to tyrants and dictators. Power makes it hard to take them down but not impossible. Look at how powerful Saddam Hussein was, look at Qaddafi. People rose up to bring these people down and many were punished and lost their lives but the end result was worth the sacrifice if that meant freedom from oppression and the betterment of livelihood. Police charge into the home of armed and abusive men, take down serial killers and rapists. Your right there are a lot of people who might not act in the face of adversity and at the cost of their own life. But it doesn't take everyone, sometimes it can only take one person, or a small team to take down very powerful people. Look at Osama bin Laden.

[@magnatcleo2043]

@@vebdaklu You do realize that revolutions, civil wars, and riots are a thing in real life, right? Hell, all three of those have happened in America at least once. Fictional stories often have basis in reality, to some extent.

[@vebdaklu]

@@magnatcleo2043 And those revolutions end up putting different villains in power in the end, while the heroes die unknown. But that's not the point, the point is that the abrahamic god, if he was real, wouldn't just be a tyrant - tyrants can be deposed, so you would risk your life or finite torture for an acheivable goal fighting a tyrant. With god, that would be pointless - you couldn't depose (or even harm him), and the only thing you would get out of that is eternal torture. As I said, fortunately, that is all bullshit, but I would understand the difficulty of someone who is convinced of such a thing to untangle himself out of that mode of thinking.

[@puckerings]

"This god may be a moral monster, but he helped me out personally so I am going to worship him."

[@jotaroandtheworldofdolphin79]

Yea greatest motto ever! Can't believe how far ignorance can take somebody, but I have experienced with my own believes in god as well on how ridiculous I had become myself in it!

[@Home8rew]

A bit like “the local mafia hitman helped me out with the rent last month so he’s OK by me and from now on I’ll completely overlook the way he makes his living” 🙂

[@brucebaker810]

That parking space was...the best.

[@etgaming6063]

"You're suggesting that it is absurd to stand up against corruption that is too powerful, I'm sorry that you're weak." That is definitely the mic drop I needed today OMG

[@colinsixhitter3303]

He walks down the street and sees someone doing evil he would rip them apart, any body would. So what if the person who was doing wrong was god? Would he just walk on by thinking "what do I know, its god?"

[@chriswaters926]

Tyson is real , simple.

[@at__xyz]

none of you understood kevins point. God isnt just powerful. He is the most powerful. So powerful that humans cannot even comprehend. "standing up" against him is literally impossible because he is god and you cannot do anything about that. how does standing up against something u cant comprehend make any sense?

[@at__xyz]

@@colinsixhitter3303 none of you understood kevins point. God isnt just powerful. He is the most powerful. So powerful that humans cannot even comprehend. "standing up" against him is literally impossible because he is god and you cannot do anything about that. how does standing up against something u cant comprehend make any sense?

[@colinsixhitter3303]

@@at__xyz Hold on you just described god so he is not beyond your comprehension and so not beyond my comprehension. I recall a Chinese guy who stood up against a tank. He had no chance to beat it but he stood in its way anyway. But you are not painting a great picture of what you regard as god as it appears to be an all powerful bully that ignores the free will he was meant to have gifted us and uses his power to enslave and force submission. I would stand up against that god because he knows what is in my heart apparently. In my heart I would oppose your god and I will be hell bound anyway because he also condemns your thoughts.

[@kissit012]

He sounds like the wife of a gangster. “As long as the bills are paid, I get nice things, and he comes home for dinner on time, who cares where the money comes from or what terrible things he does? Deep down he’s a good man.”

[@fsh_outta_wtr]

@@tototome7046 Empathy. Literally a specific part of the brain. You can cut it out and lose your "God given" moral compass.

[@conradlorgar5508]

@@tototome7046 I definitely didn't get it from the bible and neither did you

[@Puleczech]

@@tototome7046 There are many inputs for this ranging from upbringing, natural empathy, understanding of what is good/bad for you so you will/won't do it to others, cultural bias, even secular laws etc. On the other hand, if you had to read Bible to figure out killing or talking shit to your mother is bad then it says a lot about you.

[@kpe727]

@@tototome7046 How do you explain the morality of children who know absolutely NOTHING of the bible (any bible) or god (also, any god)? As Msr Santorro has already said: Empathy. It's basic to all conscious primates. It doesn't have to be taught or indoctrinated, only reinforced and encouraged. And if you don't believe that then I encourage YOU to spend some time observing small children -- left to their own devices (and in the absence of poor examples from adults) they are little empathy and compassion machines. It's one of the most beautiful things you'll ever see and you won't need to be within a million miles of a church or a holy book to bear witness.

[@petermirtitsch1235]

@@kpe727 actually, very small children are amoral selfish monsters. It's the only way they can survive.

[@zedbout]

As the great Seth Andrews once said “Christianity made me talk like an idiot.”

[@huepix]

So what's his excuse now?

[@markaguilera493]

@@huepix And what's your excuse?

[@richardvastine7486]

@@huepix You one of those loving christians or do you have some specific issue with Seth? Just curious as your comment seems a tad snarky.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

He did research and obtained critical thinking skills enough to lead him out of the religious dogma.

[@rawrmosh2196]

Well that’s the thing is that in Christianity you can make no sense while you are talking nor say that the Bible isn’t a bad book to read

[@salzburgsf49ersfan56]

Religious people, God is a monster, but he is our monster. 😂😜

[@KeplersDream]

"God is not good - he was never good. He was only on our side." -- God On Trial

[@brucebaker810]

Not the monster sinners wanted. But the monster they deserved.

[@brucebaker810]

@@KeplersDream Not so much "Greatest" then. More"was willing to take us on as a project".

[@daistoke1314]

Belief in God is easy Belief in a good God is difficult Belief in a perfect God is f*cking impossible I speak as a theist.

[@darkstar4494]

@@daistoke1314 which do you believe in?

[@robertuebel7068]

Listening to this conversation really helps me understand why such a large percentage of our population can't resist authoritarian ideology. The American brand of Christianity has primed so many of our fellow Americans to be servile and obedient followers.

[@misterbxiv]

Geez. “My life is evidence, cause sometimes it’s good and sometimes it’s not.” Okay guy.

[@kpe727]

"I just FEEEEEEEEEEL Gawd in muh life -- Why does this not convince you?????????" -- Every Christian Since Christianity Was Invented

[@notatheist]

I don’t fear being tortured in hell for eternity. An eternity. Without my mother-in-law. Apparently, she’s going to heaven and I’m reminded every day. Sold.

[@ch3rrikiss]

😂😂😂 It's all about perspective

[@chriskelly3481]

🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏❤

[@JayJay-two]

Sorted Count me in 😁👍😂😂

[@1aundulxaldin]

Your mother in law is going to Heaven? How so?

[@kpe727]

"Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." -- Mark Twain

[@dyrewolfrm]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - summary of Matt's response to the hypothetical

[@sydneybristow5588]

Kevin truly embodies the biblical term "sheep".

[@cgfamorcan9809]

He's not sheep, he's a DOG 🐶

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

His whole argument boils down to a dummies version of Pascal’s Wager.

[@WeirdWonderful]

So basically Pascal's Wager then :P

[@m3ntyb]

*cowards

[@negusdawoo]

@@m3ntyb = fyne

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@Scott Scotty Except quite a few outlaw worshiping any other god besides themselves.

[@1aundulxaldin]

@@yabutmaybenot.6433 Didn't Blaise Pascal study under that Descartes guy? Rene Descartes?

[@imuawarriors]

I would gladly join Matt's revolution against an evil god/king.

[@ravarga4631]

Bollocks. Neither you nor matt would participate in a revolution against an ebil king. There are a few currently in power of a few countries who are arguably evil. I dont see either of you engaged in a revolution against them. How about a revolution against evil presidents? There are a few of them, right? Easy to claim you would rebel against a god you see no proof exists.

[@tacticalturtlez4906]

Here here.

[@SCOOBYGD]

No you wouldn’t

[@tacticalturtlez4906]

@@SCOOBYGD and you know this how?

[@Blazingbiskit]

@@tacticalturtlez4906 They don't.

[@Hominid999]

Euthyphro Dilemma is as follows: - Is an action good because God commands it? Then morality is arbitrary, and acts of good are reduced to mere obedience. - Or does God command it because it is good? Then morality supersedes God.

[@supreme84x]

Kevin talks exactly like a victim of indoctrination.

[@lucifers.morningstar3805]

Because he is a victim of indoctrination.

[@lmoral222]

To me, not exactly. I can tell he's trying to be as honest as he can, despite some errors. That's rare on this show. Edit: ok I got to the midway point and yeah, he's quite invested.

[@darinb.3273]

Kevin is on the right track, however isn't far along enough to answer Matt's questions throughly. God is the authority as creator of the universe that means he gets to make the authoritative rules to govern what he created and when an individual can do what God did then and ONLY then can said individual question God's authority just as Job did. Put yourself in Job's place. Read the entire book of Job and again placing yourself in Job and believing as he did, faith in God as he did and trusting God as he did a person who does this will be much further along in understanding God than before. I think of the woman who spent her life savings on doctors trying to cure her blood issue you don't have to believe the story but put yourself in her place she knew the Messiah she believed and thought in her mind if I can only touch his garment I WILL be healed go ahead and convince her Jesus was a myth convince her God didn't exist. No folks don't have to believe in God, that the Bible is his word, that he created this universe we can look at in awe and wonder and the beauty right here on earth. By that woman's faith, she was instantly and completely healed. Tell the others that Jesus healed he wasn't who he said he was, no worries there were those who saw him do th these miraculous things and still didn't believe. He taught many including the 12 apostles who saw the same as the crowds. That's okay though God gave man "free will" to choose. There will be a shock to many when Jesus comes back which only God knows when that will be. It's the choice everyone has the right to make for his or herself. No man is without excuse. All God asked of those that believe and follow him is to tell the news of Jesus Christ. Just like leading an animal to water you cannot make it drink.

[@darinb.3273]

When a person has faith, when a person believes, when a person trusts and when a person accepts the Bible, God can and does bless them. Just as God promised, just as Jesus told Thomas Blessed are those who HAVE NOT SEEN me and yet sill believe. Doubters IS NOT anything new concerning Jesus.

[@supreme84x]

@@darinb.3273 Your claim is easily proven false. Anyone can and many have questioned. Also, you can shorten your answer to "divine command theory", cause that's all you laid out. Nothing new and throughout addressed. It just redefines things in a way which yields your desired result. However that definition is rejected until the thing it is being attached to (in this case god) can be shown to exist. Otherwise, a definition based on something that exists (such as well-being or happiness) ties the definition to things which can be demonstrated to exist and are measurable.

[@Twulfbynight]

Fear of god’s wrath is a real mental illness. My aunt struggles with this same problem but luckily she has us younger folks in the family to help her with her journey

[@mazingdaddid]

Its not an illness, its a trauma. They were traumatized as children, or grabbed when they were in a shitty situation, and healing that trauma is so hard because they don't recognize that its there.

[@SevenOfNineteen]

@@mazingdaddid "They were traumatized as children" That is exactly how it is. The sects' abusive access to children in order to forge them to their ideology for life through traumatization is a crime of inconceivable proportions.

[@jotaroandtheworldofdolphin79]

Well its more like a trauma like the other guys said I feel, but your right because out of fear from god I developed a psycchosis, so a real mental illness, as well which is now my main problem along with the fear of hell still. Which is why I hate some Christians guts like this ones over here. Btw if you have tips on how to go on after leaving Christianity i could use some help!

[@garyt123]

Not gods wrath or gods trauma. Presuming god doesn't exist (the most reasonable posture) then this is just corrupt fraudulent people (priests) threatening and traumatising our children. As such these corrupt and fraudulent people should surely be prosecuted and imprisoned by the justice system, right?

[@huepix]

Yes, its abuse and atheists should go beyond "I don't believe you" to, "no, supernatural claims are not real".

[@JayBandersnatch]

My life plays out pretty much exactly the same as an atheist as it did as a theist, I simply no longer give imaginary beings the credit.

[@philpaine3068]

Kevin worships God for exactly the same reason that people worshipped Stalin and Mao. "Him BIG. Him POWERFUL. Me nothing but a worm." This is the psychology of a slave who has given up struggling for freedom, or a brutally abused child who thinks his abuser "loves" him.

[@chrism6315]

Yup, if the caller said 'I worship him because I'm afraid of him' I'd respect that. I can't blame people for not stepping infront of the tank in tienamen Square, shit I probably wouldn't do it. But to sincerely worship the dictator, rather than just do as your told to avoid the fire is not the same thing.

[@ultramagnus8240]

Short hand. He's a monster but he does nice things for me!

[@leandabee]

Sort of like an abusive partner. One day nice, the next day, smack you in the face 🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️👍

[@jaymorgan299]

@@leandabee It's because he loves me. I make him do it, ok!

[@szymongrabarczyk3561]

You know my dad?

[@garyt123]

...yeah, nice things like creating infant bone cancer and parasitic worms that eat you eyeballs from the inside.

[@garyt123]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST Yeah, saw your other post too You are just a freaking weirdo.

[@salzburgsf49ersfan56]

Matt, thank you for helping me, my wife to escape this thing called religion.

[@Rob-fc9wg]

Well done to you both. Cheers from Australia.

[@skrface5]

I’m a huge fan of Matt and the rest. I’m pretty confident he doesn’t want all the credit. Critical thinking can’t be done for you. These guys have sharpened my thinking a lot but I found them long after I declared myself atheist. All I’m saying is please don’t forget to give yourself some credit

[@hosannapraisegod9286]

My heart sorrows for you and your wife.

[@christianblevins1870]

And I feel sorry that you still believe in a made up thing that thinks slavery is good

[@hosannapraisegod9286]

@@christianblevins1870 I don’t know what Bible your reading that says “Slavery is good”.

[@zypherwtempest8691]

worshiping something because he/she/it is powerful is cowardly.

[@garyt123]

Definitely 'it'.

[@mrcurly1147]

It expresses the preference to a life of groveling in fear to the absurd over seeking the truth, however frightening. They gain their only victory (supposedly) in death, ours a daily victory in living. Big difference.

[@mrcurly1147]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST mmmmmm. Sin.....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@garyt123]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST BS. I am a far better person than YOU are. I can prove that, hands down! The only wicked person here is yourself sir!

[@starfishsystems]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST You're not just a bit delusional. You've gone right over the edge into full whacko.

[@pdawfpodcast3105]

Lets hypothetically say god is invisible, silent, and absent from humanity... ...oh wait 🤔😅

[@Danny451]

🤣

[@awilson1998]

I have an invisible/intangible dragon in my sunroom that protects me from the molocks. You say I'm silly and don't have a dragon. You ask what a molock is. I couldn't discribe a molock because my dragon is just that good.

[@DoctorHver]

You are sane as long as you don't´belive in that god fella.

[@awilson1998]

It has never been claimed that Morlocks are invisible/intangible. They have merely never been observed due to my magnificent dragon's acumen. Water freezing at 32 F 0 C is infact also because of my magnificent dragon. Eventually we may discover all things involving blackholes, at which point some will say "well yeah because God and stuff". I find God's ability to gain insight and intelligence right alongside us lowly humans to be fascinating! The laws of the universe , discovered by humans accredited to god post

[@christianosminroden7878]

@@tototome7046 The Christian god, or more generically: The Abrahamic god, has been made up by people who didn‘t know Jack about how the world works in order to „explain“ things they couldn‘t explain otherwise. That’s why finding things in nature that „correspond“ to the claims about him is absolutely expectable - he was *designed* that way. However, that also why with every newly found natural phenomenon at least since Galileo, you guys have constantly had to bend over backwards going back to your book and reinterpret what it allegedly says to keep it „corresponding“. It if was the other way round, how is it that no single scientific discovery has ever been predicted, rather than made fit in hindsight, based on that book? It becomes ridiculously easy to see how deeply flawed your argument is, which is basically just a variation of „look at the trees, therefore god“, when you realize that the exact same „argument“ would, if it did at all, lead to a plethora of other gods, spirits etc. that humans have believed and do believe in around the world and throughout history just as well - and an argument that leads to multiple mutually contradictory conclusions is necessarily flawed, to say the least. Furthermore, I don‘t know where you get that strange idea of an „atheistic creator“ from, and frankly, that pretty much looks to me like an alleged proposition - in other words: A straw man - you pulled out of thin air specifically in a desperate attempt to lay a burden of proof on atheists where there simply isn‘t one. Any hypothesis about what caused the Big Bang is not an intrinsic, positive position of atheism. The atheistic position on that - if there is one at all, which there arguably isn‘t - is, at least as of now, simply „I don‘t know“. Maybe it was some form of god, but unless there‘s actual evidence to back that claim up, the best answer remains „I don‘t know“. And even if there was such evidence, there‘s still nothing whatsoever leading from that „unknown general creator“ to any particular god, let alone one that is personally interested in what each and every individual specimen of an insignificant species on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy (universally speaking) does with their reproductive organs.

[@kpe727]

Plus, I bet there are no morlocks in your home. Solid proof that your dragon is not only real but 100% effective. Count me a convert!!!!!!

[@faircompetition1203]

All hail the dragon

[@littleblazer355]

I’m not afraid of evil, I will revolt. I have never backed down. I’m no superhero, I just have empathy for life and logic.

[@Twulfbynight]

Also, side note, current Mike Tyson dedicates himself to encourage people not to be like younger Mike Tyson

[@fidelluz2942]

Mike Tyson is a wise man

[@anthonyharty1732]

@@fidelluz2942 Yeah, doped out of his face most of the time. Got through 200 million dollars, got jailed for rape, very wise that was. 😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@fidelluz2942]

@@anthonyharty1732 that's why I used the present tense instead of the past. Also I was referring to the original poster "current Mike Tyson dedicates himself to encourage people not to be like younger Mike Tyson"

[@richardwilliams473]

I feel sorry for the caller.He is totally brainwashed by his erroneous belief in the Jealous and Vengeful God of the Bible. Thank you, Matt for holding your ground!!!

[@louisbarrow4671]

Turn to Allah.

[@rammsteinrulz16]

@@louisbarrow4671 lol sure, the jealous and vengeful Christian god is messed up... But the jealous and vengeful ISLAMIC god... Who is the SAME GOD... THAT'S the one you wanna submit to. 😑

[@flipwright1138]

@@louisbarrow4671 Turn to Hula.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@louisbarrow4671 Embrace Buddha

[@ajclements4627]

Turn to Thor.

[@davidlee4903]

"I DID love you, Kevin." Brutal.

[@iemy2949]

If I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard that…

[@Tina-qn6pq]

Kevin sounds like me. I used to say “no one can ever convince me god doesnt exist. I will be the first to lay down and die for him”. I have been an atheist for 6 years. It just takes one thing or some perfectly worded logic that seeps in without knowing it,, to open someone’s eyes.

[@hazmat1978]

Welcome to the "Dark Side"! We have Cookies! ;-)

[@christianadam2907]

@@hazmat1978 Space cookies are especially good

[@bms77]

It also takes an intellectually honest person haha

[@trishayamada807]

I’m curious, what was your aha moment. I’m always fascinated by ardent Christian’s who become atheist. It seems to me, that wishy-washy theists don’t change as easily almost, because they just pick parts they like and never think about the rest whereas theists who take their religion seriously can come to see the problems. This is not based on any facts or studies, just my own experiences.

[@jcarc5701]

@@trishayamada807 I always went to church as kid and just went along with everything my parents said about religion but I never believed any of it. Until I was of age and can make my own decisions not to go to church etc. I knew as far back as 2 years old that this is nonsense. What fascinates me is how anyone can believe such an obvious fiction.

[@Skar2Faded]

God never created humanity Humanity Created the idea Of God

[@tomme4314]

Prove it

[@ajclements4627]

God, as described in those ancient papyrus scribblings doesn’t exist. And IF a god did exist, it’s obvious AF he doesn’t give a damn about 7.8 billion evolved primates on this rock.

[@tomme4314]

@@ajclements4627 that's your problem you hate God because you hate yourself. You hate yourself because of your weakness and your perversions and your unwilling to give up your perversion so you blame God for making you a pervert rather than blaming yourself for your own weakness.. instead of figuring out why you're such a weak man why you're so feminine you blame God for making you feminine when it's not God's fault.. You feel that God doesn't give a damn I don't feel that way this is because I don't reject God....... Also can you be a little more specific ,what do you mean evolved from a primate? Are you trying to say that you believe we evolved from something like a chimpanzee? Do you believe like most atheists that we evolved from something like a fish than a chimpanzee? Do you believe that the environment like weather and diet is why we evolved from something like a fish to what we are today? Do you believe we have different ethnicity because of environmental reasons like weather and diet rather than logical reasons like the idea that we have different ethnicities because we have different admixtures.... You're probably not going to tell me what you believe because you have no evidence so like most atheist you make comments playing with words implying belief in something rather than taking a stand so you can back out of your claim because you don't have the courage of your convictions to clarify your position because you really don't believe we evolved from something like a fish to a chimpanzee.

[@dragowolfraven3806]

No one cares about your poorly written bronze age fanfic

[@ajclements4627]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST You still have nothing but your silly misunderstanding of science copy paste and your misplaced condescending attitude I see.

[@DJMaul1031]

It's REALLY easy to kick God's ass: Just stop believing in him, and all his power goes away.

[@hexgrimoireetc9829]

The Virgin Kevin: "God is too strong, we must submit!" The Chad Average JRPG protag: "Haha time to go slay tyrant deities!"

[@cloutfisher7714]

The callers on this show all sound like background characters in a Persona game

[@cloutfisher7714]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST lmao

[@Julian0101]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST Yep, that is the reason why your fictional magical fairy is simply inmoral. Congratulations for repeating the point of the call.

[@lucifers.morningstar3805]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST provide verifiable and testable evidence that there is a God, not just any God but the specific God of the religion that you believe in.

[@kevinhead5795]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST Jesus sounds like a dreamy guy.

[@defenestratefalsehoods]

Why do his god have a billion exceptions to every rule? One excuse afer another when asked for proof

[@mistersippi2945]

Because it’s a character people are told they have to believe is true or else. That’s why people who defend it say everything from “I don’t need proof my feelings are enough” to “I can demonstrate scientifically that my version of my god is real”.

[@mattg6390]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST Wow! Finding "God" hasn't even made you a happy person. You sound quite miserable. If you truly believed, I doubt you would be this angry and I'm willing to bet you'd have better reasons than the zero real ones you have given so far. "God" is supposed to make people loving, it's sad to see how irritable and irrational he has made you

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST How's it feel to know you've been misled for 50 years?

[@defenestratefalsehoods]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST the bible cant agree with itself on much of anything. Its a total contradiction just to allow you to make it say what you want. How many women went to jesus tomb, what did they see, and who did they tell?????

[@defenestratefalsehoods]

@SPEIRS OMNHURST it seems that jesus resurrection was just another day at the office because when he died the zombie apocalypse happened in Matthew 27:52. No one talks about that because it is a fictional story. Also Noah's flood had 3 times the amount of water that the earth holds and you want to make a claim that it is a believable story. What did the animals eat because the plants would have died in the salt water. Whay are there civilizations that didnt know they drowned like the Egyptians, indus valley civilization and the Mesopotamia civilization all lived through the flood. How do you account for that?

[@marybreiner5]

I'm dealing with a lot of anger from the realization that for my entire life I was brainwashed and browbeat into believing that there was a God. And that if I didn't follow the rules I would burn in hell for eternity. How do you get past that? 😒

[@campfireaddict6417]

What's worse is if you shared that ":knowledge" with kids. We had Sunday School/Bible School teachers in my family. I eventually escaped. I don't know about the rest.

[@ricardovonkrypton8908]

That's a hard situation mate, you have my sympathies. The thing that helped (and frustrated) me about that anger, was realising that the people who had conned me, had themselves been conned using the same methods. They are victims too, and worse, they are still being conned.

[@campfireaddict6417]

If you are dealing with a lot of anger, where is it directed? Is your anger reaching it's target? Or are you the only one who is suffering from that destructive emotion?

[@joecoolioness6399]

Realize that so were the people brainwashing you. You just happened to escape. Be glad.

[@Preservestlandry]

The people doing it to you were brainwashed and browbeat too. (Most people. Obviously some had athiest parents or something. But most people's parents take them to their same church.)

[@krisaaron5771]

Kevin is clearly besotted with POWER! Equating his personal and imaginary deity with Mike Tyson had me laughing so loudly I woke up the cat, who can sleep through my kid's electric guitar riffs! Iron Mike will be thrilled with the comparison.

[@andrewcvisuals]

I haven't watched the show since 2014, but I'm stoked to see you're still at it! Just happened upon the channel again. Keep it up! Going to dive deep into the lost years LOL!

[@ariannaspaceninja311]

Welcome back!

[@andrewlockett4569]

You've got a lot to catch up on hehe))

[@buzzbee8869]

Oh buddy so much has happened 😅😅

[@topcat2069]

“Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.” - H.L. Mencken

[@GoneByDawnSean]

Another great show! Jenna and Matt compliment each other well and I'm super grateful for this program. Keep up the great work!

[@whispersmith]

Complement* :)

[@yys2832]

I like Kevin. It seems to me that, unlike other callers, he actually has the potential to wake up one day. And I will like him even more when he does.

[@Duffman19370]

At this point, he has to keep up the charade, as going back on his word would be too humiliating to himself.

[@jotaroandtheworldofdolphin79]

@@Duffman19370 may be but I wish him that he still does no matter how humiliating it is, I had to do the same sorta.

[@jotaroandtheworldofdolphin79]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST Yea I don't believe anymore and your fear making won't make anything better for anyone.

[@rawmaterials3909]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST given the situation the world is on right now, I'd say the vast majority of people on this planet doesn't follow jesus and his teachings. Even if they have a Choice. Seems they choose not to care.

[@rawmaterials3909]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST no, I'd rather say that jesus has very low credibility.

[@JoeBz2011]

Kevin there's a large group (and still growing btw) who agree with Matt's sentiment regarding standing up to the being described in the bible if it existed...I can be counted in this group.

[@JayJay-two]

Me too I'm in the group 😂😂😂😂

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It's hard to offer unconditional love for a god who never laughs and runs a sting operation on his kids.

[@slimjim227]

Christopher Hitchens’ ‘celestial North Korea’ comes to mind when he says he feels he must worship his god because he’s powerful! Is he willing to be a doormat in any other situation I wonder?

[@scipioafricanus5871]

Funny you should mention Christopher Hitchens, who himself caved in to the vengeful God when he had a deathbed conversion to the Catholic Church. Don't think you'll use Hitchens as a good example. He's in Celestial North Korea worshipping a vengeful God now if he's lucky.

[@slimjim227]

@@scipioafricanus5871 Ah yes, the old ‘deathbed conversion’ BS conspiracy theory. The Christian Church tried the same tactics when the emperor Constantine died, and when Albert Einstein died as well, didn’t work then, won’t work now, especially not for Christopher Hitchens. Your assertions are just another example of how, as ‘Hitch’ explained, “religion poisons everything”.

[@steveswangler6373]

@@scipioafricanus5871 wow, are you really that gullible? lol if you seriously belelive that BS, i have several bridges, some are antiques, i can let you have them very cheaply. just get in touch with me, because i love selling to gullible unthinking idiots...er customers

[@phoenixfire8226]

@@scipioafricanus5871 If the Hitch did convert on his deathbed, which he didn't, it sure as shit wouldn't be to the catholic church. He tongue lashed those boy lovers incessantly.

[@scipioafricanus5871]

@@phoenixfire8226 Methinks the Hitch did protest too much when he tongue lashed The Holy Church of The One True Faith.

[@fredroutson8691]

That's good! - Honorable people that care more about what's right than what's might!

[@nothingnerdyNtertainment]

His character is important when it's a defining feature that's supposed to go hand and hand with your God claim. Not only is he supposed to be a creator god, but perfect in his ability and character.

[@joecoolioness6399]

@august opus so is god.

[@brucebaker810]

It's what they tell themselves to justify the "grovel and obey" bits.

[@Vladimiros82]

Kevin's whole argument is "might makes right"

[@ch3rrikiss]

"When it comes to "HIM" my opinion doesn't matter ".... This is going on in his head?! I have BPD, if I had this confused madness in my head on top of everything else I'd be committed. Questioning the existence of a god all those years ago genuinely saved my life

[@Jedi_Vigilante]

If the Harry Potter story was true, Kevin would be a Death Eater... If Star Wars were true, Kevin would be a Stormtrooper... If he had been born in Germany in the 1910's-20's, Kevin would have been a Nazi soldier... That's basically what I got from the call. Just because somebody or something is stronger (or perceived as stronger), doesn't mean it shouldn't be opposed. If everybody believed that way, there would be no freedom in the world at all. In fact, Christianity wouldn't even exist to corrupt so many minds! After all, when Christianity was first created, there were several theistic options with far more power in the world. Why rise up to promote this new religion if the others are so strong? In Kevin's mind, there would be no reason at all...

[@sydd862]

One of the best clips

[@TypographyGuru]

He should get a history book if he really can’t believe that people revolt against tyrants even if it might cost them everything.

[@SPL0869]

Kevin is a textbook example of what we’d call in the hood someone with a “house slave mentality.” He’s rationalized that because god/master has in his opinion “treated him pretty good”, that somehow makes up for the slave baby he(god/master) fed to the alligator before leaving for Sunday school.

[@thedljc8104]

He worships out of fear.

[@osomartinez]

i have nothing but pity for kevin who sounds so confused

[@nathanhachey]

I love Kevin's schoolyard analogy where he equivalates god to a bully. Oops.

[@badatheist9948]

Ken is immoral himself., he has no idea how immoral he is. He also is delusional and does not realize it, he would reject other people’s god like deny. And his answer about God’s influence was one circular argument.

[@nosignal7156]

I was a little bit disappointed in Matt and Jenna this time. Jenna tried to steer the conversation away from the guest's hypothetical instead of challenging it. Matt gave up too quick when he had an excellent opportunity to grill the guest on the ethics and morals of submitting to a thug.

[@coffeetalk924]

Off subject sorry, why aren't atheists infuriated as much at people owning chimpanzees (our primate cousins) as they are at humans owning other humans? Btw, I'm an atheist lol

[@dukeemzworth3005]

False Equivalence Fallacy - Owning animals does not mean that you can mistreat them like when you were allowed to 'own' people as slaves. Even if you make animals work for you, there are certain rules that you will need to follow.

[@coffeetalk924]

@@dukeemzworth3005 i didn't say anything about abusing them. I was merely referring to owning them and not allowing them freedom to leave or live in their natural habitats. Purchasing as property! Michael Jackson bestowed lots of love onto his chimpanzee, but obviously it wasn't free to leave. It's just a question of what's ethical and moral.

[@coffeetalk924]

@@ookeekthelibrarian yes, Saudi Arabia as well. Princes own exotic animals in that country, including higher primates! It angers me as well my friend!

[@terminatah500]

So pretty much religious people are willing to forgive god for all the bad shit he has done but will not forgive me for not worshipping him. I don't bow to no one or anything

[@matthewshearlaw8813]

I can't imagine how many times this guy was told he better not question or challenge god or he will face gods wrath during his childhood... I mean that's the only way you become so fragile and scared of what god might do if you challenge his authority or do something he did not want to happen according to his "divine plan"

[@joulian]

At the end I heard "Mike doesn't make right" Truer sentence hasn't been spoken in this show *DID YOU HEAR THAT, MIKE???*

[@kenbee1957]

🤣🤣🤣

[@duh7334]

Haha

[@duh7334]

No he don't , thanks mike

[@EvilVacuum]

No one should have a blind spot for literally anything. Not only does it obfuscate you from reality, the leap in logic can be weaponized against you.

[@mistersippi2945]

Until someone demonstrates a god exists no I don’t believe it could “squash me like a bug”. Unless you want to say that Donkey Kong could kill me with a punch, the same way your god can. At least we know what Donkey Kong is, we have a real life counterpart to compare it, and we know the physical attributes of the fictional character. “If Donkey Kong were real there’s no way you could win in a fight against it. So you’d better pretend he exists to avoid punishment and give me your bananas”

[@romankvapil9184]

On top of that, why does the the threat of this god deserve worship? Those that demand worship show they not worthy of it.

[@nosignal7156]

I don't think this is the right way to counter them. The better way id to ask them: If Satan was real and could quash you like a bug, would you worship him? The way the guest laid out his hypothetical, his submission to a greater might could be applied to Satan as well. That's the direction to grill him on.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@romankvapil9184 Those that have to threaten in order to obtain worship are even less worthy.

[@mistersippi2945]

@@nosignal7156 You’re right but I was thinking more that he can’t demonstrate his god, even the character of his “god” or a counterpart in reality. We know for a fact that Donkey Kong isn’t real, but his character is one that’s strong enough to apparently crack something half the size of a moon in two. On top of that he loves bananas, and is apparently stupid. Such that his name translates to “Stupid Ape”. We also have a something that is representative of the character of DK in actual gorillas. All of which are stronger and tougher than humans. My goal was to show him that not just the character but the thing the character is based on could kill me with minimal effort. That doesn’t mean I’d worship the character of Donkey Kong if someone simpleton suggested he was real, but I wouldn’t worship an actual gorilla which we know is real because of its strength. His reply to Matt was “nu-uh you’d be terrified of DK and would do whatever it said to avoid harm or death!” Which shows what his priorities are.

[@Still-Learning]

Due to a successful psychological conditioning campaign, the FEAR of NOT believing, is stronger than the logic of examination. -VGQ

[@kandykorn6136]

Kevin, next time you want to discuss your god, how about first providing some evidence/proof that your god exists and why we should care.

[@analizandoliteratura9958]

A revolution for a fictional charecter Kevin ? just remember the Crusades and the Inquisition.

[@pennymitchell8523]

Kevin became nasty. Shame he didn't realise that he has changed his own life and guides his own life

[@walnutoil100]

Your evidence it was not God?

[@ajclements4627]

@@walnutoil100 Your evidence it was god?

[@nickhinton9726]

The one making the claim in the affirmative has the burden of proof. If you say God has intervened in your life, it is your job to prove it, not mine too disprove it.

[@timom8498]

Caller would be the snitch rounding up his neighbors if God told him 2

[@adriangeh6414]

How quaint, a person who licks the boot of his master while smirking smugly at others who don't.

[@kdmour]

Kevin sounds like there is an atheist inside him dying to come out

[@trocarcat]

I'd join Matt's revolution in a heartbeat. The god of the bible is worse than the Taliban..who would worship that? If Mike Tyson demanded that I worship him? Yeah I'd slap him.

[@joulian]

I wouldn't. But that's just because I recognize I'm a coward.

[@cooly-t398]

@@joulian 😂😂😂💯💯

[@bobsurface908]

Psssst.... The god of the Taliban is the SAME god as the one in the Bible - just a different sect. That is why the whole Islam Vs Christianity Vs Judaism fight is so utterly ridiculous. They ALL include the same stories from the Torah/Old Testament - Moses, Abraham, Noah etc, with the same deity. And they all say the others are misguided heretics, and should die. That's why it's so absurd, pathetic and wasteful.

[@steveswangler6373]

@@bobsurface908 trocarcat's comment didnt say anything about the god of the taliban. they said the biblical god is worse than the taliban itself. they never mentioned the taliban's religion or their god. comprehension is the main thing about reading. (the Psssst...... part made you look even more foolish lol)

[@edmarcano4681]

Matt you are bad ass dude I like the way you handle these people

[@mazelin316]

What an AMAZING episode, holy shit. This man was roasted

[@phxsunfan]

Kudos to the caller for at least greeting Jenna

[@darkstar4494]

Matt is totally missing the opportunity here. It’s interesting and useful to consider hypotheticals. There is lots of room here to explore the callers psychology. It sounds like he’s ok with authoritarianism and this is part of his basis for adhering.

[@rrpostalagain]

He specifically says he is NOT saying might makes right even though he, quite obviously, is saying that might makes right.

[@theguilloriousmind5832]

Authoritarianism and unjustified hierarchy

[@scionofdorn9101]

"When I act like a decent person, my life gets better." Yeah, it probably does, so why do you need a god then? Why not just be a decent person because it makes things better?

[@hectordavid4201]

Wow, this guy is crazy! I come from a country where the weakers were dare to tell the truth out loud. And yes, they were killed by the mighties and powerfuls, but they become heroes for the generations to come - like Jan Hus or Jan Palach. A single human being can alter the course of the history if he is brave enough and become a role model for the many. But that is never will be Kevin´s destiny.

[@davidblair4150]

I’m one of the people that will stand with you Matt.

[@visforvegan8]

He is so smug in his response. He keeps bringing up Mike Tyson and other heavy weight champs as if that's reason to support god. You actually can produce these men and women. They can show up in Matt's studio, and choose to punch him or not. God can't. Does he believe every fairytale bad guy? Would be just fall in line with every strongman throughout history, and say who are we to stand against him. WTF, he has no backbone.

[@TheGuitarislove]

“Kevin just stop, cause I’m bored” 😂😂😂😂

[@lnsflare1]

Like, even if I was convinced that he existed, Yaweh would already be planning to send me to Hell for not being able to force myself to commit the types of atrocities he commands, so why *wouldn't* I try and spit in his eye on the way down? Is he going to send me to *Double* Hell, or something?

[@ancestorseyes2620]

Peculiar! All information about "GOD", everything known about what he is, did, said, wants from us, does for us, all come from human beings. Where do we draw the line between what a GOD said/thinks/wants and what mankind says that a God said/thinks/wants, and, with what methodology is this line determined???? Everything we've learned about GOD came/comes directly or indirectly from "mankind", via his voice (speaking, preaching recordings) or something that he made (languages, symbols, letters, books, scrolls, hieroglyphics, etc). WHAT method can we use to determine if it's coming from the mind of man( a product of his imagination) or that Man is being used/guided by a "GOD". Its kinda weird that GOD always require "humans" to do its work for it. Some examples are: (have its child, fight its wars, write its books, spread its word, cure its believers, build its houses, prove its existence, collect money for it, etc). GOD said ____ is always according to another HUMAN BEING. All I see/detect is MAN, iF a GOD exists, then he needs to show up, literally. Otherwise coming to the conclusion that "In the begining ", Man created GOD in his imagination and all of the scriptures were born, is definitely REASONABLE. "A God that doesn't manifest in reality, is indistinguishable from a God that doesn't exist." It appears, as if, MAN, "defined" into existence a GOD, so that a GOD could create and define Man. In other words, Man made a supposedly "OBJECTIVE " view in which to judge MAN and give the credit to a GOD, which empowers mankind to utilize phrases like: "this is the word of God", "God said it, not me", and it works! Also, Let's think about does OBJECTIVE MORALITY exist? Apparently theists don't know/understand what objective means. If morals were objective, then that means that their GOD is bound by them, but if they claim that their GOD created/determines what is moral. then, that would make them subjective by definition. If morals are , "Objective" then that would mean "good "is independent of GOD. If its not, then its subjective. Is something moral because it is, and that is why GOD says to do it, or is whatever God says to do moral? In the former case, GOD is not the author of objective morality, but his will and actions is contingent upon objective morality. In the later case, morality is subjective completely because whatever GOD says to do is moral(even contradictions like Exudos 20:13 &Numbers 31:17). And since something cannot be "A" and not "A" at the same time this leads to a paradox. Killing can't be moral and immoral at the same time. So it is subjectively moral depending upon the context and conditions. OUGHTs come from IFs, not a GOD "A GOD that doesn't manifest in reality is indistinguishable from a God that doesn't exist"

[@johnpeek2122]

What created the creator? This is an infinite number of creators creating creators ad infinitum.

[@joulian]

Now this.... was not even part of the discussion...

[@joulian]

@John Wood Now here's a better question: Why not salamanders all the way down? or crabs? what makes turtles so special?

[@johnpeek2122]

@@joulian This was a reference to the comments. Everything has to come from something the caller said. concerning the i

[@EvolutionIsRealAndGodIsFiction]

God could exist as much as he is a microscopic, omnipotent, omniscient teapot.

[@lnsflare1]

Also, in that analogy Mike Tyson would already be planning to beat Matt up and Matt has no way to even conceivably escape him, so why not try and at least get a slap in?

[@hexgrimoireetc9829]

If you're going to go down no matter what, you might as well go down swinging. Kevin is a total coward.

[@peterclancy3653]

Just think of all the soldiers who lost their lives. They knew that they could die but stood up and risked all for what they believed in

[@williamlawrence1044]

That last minute shot at mike Tyson wasn’t necessary

[@garyt123]

It is profoundly logical that IF you believe in the god of the bible, and you believe the bible is truth, then it is totally impossible to say that god is good. The evidence in the bible that god is narcissistic, brutal, sadistic and immoral, on all levels, is completely overwhelming. Then to say that this god "loves you" is insane. It loves you as long as you fully obey and carry out its bidding. The slightest deviance from its wishes supposedly result in eternal damnation. Talk about the punishment fitting the crime! Eat fish on the wrong day = eternal damnation. That's not love, that's a seriously psychotic dictatorship.

[@joecoolioness6399]

I have heard theists claim that even horrendous acts are good if god does them. Yeah, it's that insane.

[@interplanetarybusker9195]

This decided it for me. Matt and Joe Mazzari have the same shirt. Bought mine.

[@geezzerboy]

Great shirt Matt.

[@capthavic]

"Who would do that?!" Good people who wouldn't cower and bend the knee when under threat from a tyrant, unlike you Kevin.

[@lukewojtanowicz1991]

"It's the unspoken Truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation.The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel." Loki's speach in Germany. The Avengers.

[@stephenbailey9970]

How can anyone with any intelligence believe a fictional being is real? It doesn’t make any sense.

[@jeff6660]

I love it when Christians try to portray how good their lives are after having found God. Well lots of people are even happier having left the God nonsense behind them.

[@seankennedy4284]

I don't think earthly personal happiness---despite what Joel Osteen et al. may preach---is the point. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure WHAT the point IS, but a "happy" earthly life seems not to be it.

[@david2869]

@@seankennedy4284 But it's the only point we know about. Once you die there is no point because you can't make things matter anymore. The point of things is for this life only.

[@zoranbeader6441]

@@seankennedy4284 For a lot of people it is about earthy happiness. It's comforting to think there is a God who watches over you, has a plan and a purpose for you, maintains order in the universe... A church going friend of mine told me he knows the Bible is full of shit but that he got thru all the worst periods in his life because he believed God was with him and would guide him thru. He felt he wasn't alone in his darkest times and that is a powerfull motivator to be religious.

[@darkstar4494]

The belief in an all powerful daddy who has a plan for you and an eternal afterlife would be VERY comforting to me. I wish I could believe that. I think lots of theists do get great comfort from that belief.

[@Enzorgullochapin]

*"My evidence for the non-existence of any 'god', is the absence of the evidence I EXPECT if they do exist."* 2-22-22

[@rickschofield3131]

It’s not so much that god does good and bad things and we don’t understand. The fact is he does nothing -almost as if he doesn’t exist. Wait it’s exactly the same as if he doesn’t exist

[@walnutoil100]

Your evidence is?

[@kevinhead5795]

@@walnutoil100 thats like saying we have no evidence this person committed a crime then saying prove there's no evidence.

[@vizzini2510]

"I'm sorry that you are so weak." Spot on!

[@martymaiden8499]

Lamb of God said it perfectly, " better to die quick fighting on your feet, then to live forever begging on your knees"!

[@brucebaker810]

Better to be a deaf Lion than a live hyena. -- African proverb.

[@wottermelon1132]

I am a proud Athiest, but there is something that stuck with me from the movie Contact (not sure if it was in the book), which is when Jody Foster is asked whether she loved someone and she says that of course she does, and Matthew MCconaughey says "prove it". There are some things that cannot be proven that we should certainly accept as existing. When this caller said that he believed God spoke to him through how his life was going and Matt asked him to prove it, that was not a strong point for Matt to take. Sorry, but I'm going to call it the way I see it.

[@edwardschneider6396]

Kevin needs to read Plato's Republic. Socrates deals with the question of might is right.

[@merikmalhads1676]

Dude if a creator of a universe was threatening everyone's immortal souls with torture for not worshiping him, you better bet I'd be standing apposed regardless of the punishment. I know now because I have faced a hell of a lot of chronic pain in a recent disease and that confirmed to me that I can endure it if it came to it.

[@wunnell]

I think the thing that Kevin is oblivious too is that his god doesn't just want us to follow the rules. It also wants us to love it. We can control our outward behaviour but a god is going to see through that. We can't make ourselves love this evil god so why would we pretend to?

[@countsd1]

T-shirt Material: "I don't think anything worthy of worship would ever demand or expect it." Matt Dillahunty Atheist Experience 25.33, 2021.

[@supmet2]

I love people who claim it's impossible to know what a supposed god does or wants to do, and then proceed to spend their lives telling everyone what that supposed god wants.