Meaning Of The Word Faith | Jonathon-TX | The Atheist Experience 882

[@andrewhorton481]

This call is an amazing example of how intelligence and wisdom do not necessarily scale. Jonathan is clearly very articulate, well read and intelligent - and yet all of that has still been corrupted by a mind that self soothes and fallaciously corrects its astygmatic lens on the world. Fascinating.

[@arthurhunt642]

Well stated Sir.

[@evidencebased1]

And it would be easy for Jonathan’s articulateness and verbal speed to make it seem like he was making good arguments. Kudos to Matt to be able to keep up with and counter his arguments in a timely and accurate way.

[@andrewhorton481]

@@evidencebased1 I completely agree. Imagine how convincing / confusing he would be to even a pretty competent sceptic. As Matt's said on other calls, being right is indistinguishable from being wrong when you are convinced of something. This trait, combined with the whole wisdom/ intelligence scaling problem, is what makes me fear for humanity the most!

[@ApocryphalDude]

Sounds like a seminary school student.

[@johnbull1986]

Was that Johnathan Mclatchie?

[@IsraelRich]

The end of this call is the most elegant display of Matts debating genius, truly amazing!

[@gherieg.1091]

God is Real. Matt is an apostate, so he can’t be trusted to have an open mind as he has conflict of interest. You guys better be careful. These are serious matters. Don’t treat them as a sports debate.

[@IsraelRich]

@@gherieg.1091 Correction, if god is real and Matt is an apostate, then he would have a conflict of interest and wouldn't be able to be trusted. Seeing as there is no decisive evidence that god is real all we are left with are debates, and yes this is a very serious matter, which is why we debate it.

[@gherieg.1091]

@@IsraelRich There is decisive evidence of God. But you can’t reach it listening to Matt because he missed it, fell away from it after having seen it up close. And now just like satan he is dead set on trying to keep anyone else from being happy in it ... because he couldn’t. I’ve gone through huge debates under this video on comments with others. So I’ll refer you to those, as it takes up a lot of time and effort to do it with each new individual over and over again.

[@gherieg.1091]

@@IsraelRich Here’s a cut and paste of an explanation I gave some guy under another Matt video. // The short answer is that I have received the “evidence” that ONE REAL GOD exists, but that Evidence is not of a nature that can be passed laterally from person to person. It comes ONLY DIRECTLY FROM GOD. Each individual Christian became Christian through this process. It is called being “born again”. I can tell you ( PREACHING ) how to go about positioning yourself to receive that Revelation as it is INDISPENSABLE TO KNOW GOD otherwise we’re perishing. But you have a part to play in HOW YOU LISTEN TO THE PREACHING. You have to be appropriately humble in your humanly limited knowledge. Not saying you should be gullible, NO. ... But not to be like “I’m not satisfied with what you said, try harder”. That’s demanding. No one owes anyone the effort to overcome unreasonable skepticism. You ask, you get reply, you make the effort to honestly try to understand what you’re being told. Try to see it the way the person telling you sees it. Weather what you’re being told is right or wrong, doesn’t matter. YOU DO GOTTA first SEE IT THE WAY IT IS BEING TOLD TO YOU. The way the person telling you sees it. After that you decide whether to accept it or not. But to insist, as often happens, that things be explained to you in your terms ... is simply lame, to say the very least. You can’t go to San Francisco and demand that people talk to you in Queens, New York accent. That ‘nevah twalk’ like that in Frisco. 🙂 Again, not a call to gullibility. Just to strike an optimal balance. This channel is filled with too many souls demanding to be convinced despite their putting obstacles of cynicism in the way of their own attainment of understanding. Matt in the video is a sort that GOES OUT OF HIS BLOODY WAY to encourage that. He couldn’t cut it with God, and now he’s campaigning committedly with determination to take as many down with him as he can. *THAT IS EXACTLY THE STORY OF SATAN* ... this just hit me with full impact for the first time‼️ That Matt’s story regarding God is exactly like satan’s.

[@GarthFodder]

@@gherieg.1091 You should call in and give your evidence and show Matt this decisive evidence you speak of so you can bring him and his fans to salvation

[@ferasbatah7625]

I love this exchange. Matt did a great job of not allowing the caller to use his well articulated but yet circular argument.

[@stephenzaborski8656]

That was a killer segment. Bravo, Matt.

[@evanskip1]

7 yrs later and the guy is still ID proponent; wonders never cease.

[@karlb10024]

this is where I find Matt so impressive. cuts through the bull shit, sees through the arguments, quickly refutes them.

[@brentlionakaboldchamp]

Dude literally said “faith is trust, and I believe in faith and that’s my evidence.” Wtf?

[@diogeneslamp8004]

But that’s ok! If he finds that satisfying, he should just carry on. His problem is that he didn’t start there, he pretended that science and logic support him and tried to argue that point. He would have a better philosophical basis for his beliefs if he simply declared that his faith is irrational but it satisfies him and that’s good enough for him. But then he shouldn’t be calling in to a show like this. Instead he’s trapped by our cultural norms that value logic and rationality. He’s trapped in ways he doesn’t even recognize.

[@pointbreak8646]

Faith= untestable trust

[@TypographyGuru]

Looking at Jonathan McLatchie’s KZbin channel many years after this call, he hasn’t learned a thing. Not a surprise of course. As professional apologist, denial and deception are his profession. Those people must continue. They have no way out.

[@walnutoil100]

So what's the evidence God does not exist?

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

Sad really. You would think that someone that seems so intelligent would finds their way out of those beliefs, like Matt has. Self-delusion at that core belief level is hard to overcome.

[@49perfectss]

If anything his arguments are even worse now lol

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

@@49perfectss I suppose that makes a bit of sense too. When you have to constantly come up with new arguments they would naturally have to bend reality even more.

[@coffeetalk924]

@@walnutoil100 you just demonstrated the original commentor's case. You don't learn a thing, as evidenced by your comment.

[@PronatorTendon]

He isn't arguing, he's unjustifiably asserting

[@steveymoon]

If he says, "Well, I would argue that..." one more time, I think I might hurt myself.

[@cubencis]

I know! Just say what you're going to say. Can't stand this passive language.

[@chriskelly3481]

@@cubencis Yeah. "Well, I WOULD argue that..." Well, does he or does he not?! He needs to stop trying to evade accountantability for b.s statements. It is intellectual cowardice.

[@zendavesta1027]

I know right?!! It is freaking hell out of me

[@jessicadiamzon4498]

This guy is a gold medal mental contortionist.

[@Mewse1203]

Gold medal Olympic level..mental Gymnastics as well

[@mr.wrongthink.1325]

Religious faith is assuming something is true without evidence, or even against evidence.

[@AbleAnderson]

In case anyone didn’t know this is the dude Matt debated on modern day debate that walked off for a bit and then came back

[@starlaminde8436]

Oh wow I will have to look that one up have a link? So I can be lazy? 😅

[@jimappleby3545]

Jen's interjection at 24.50 was brilliant. You could almost hear the squeal of brakes and the clunk of gears as Jonathan went (too late) into reverse. Suddenly he was Wily Coyote, overshooting the edge of the cliff and finding his feet scrabbling in vain for purchase on empty air. The scrabbling turns into babbling and then we hear the fading, whistling descent into the canyon ending in that old, familiar 'WHUFFF' of impact.

[@tonyp1945]

Faith is pretending to know something you don't.

[@JayMaverick]

Jonathan keeps firing assertions with startling precision. Too bad he's using bollocks for ammunition.

[@jondoe699]

Didn't realise Tim Minchin changed his name to Jay, i'm a big big fan Tim/Jay!

[@owenwilliams105]

Matt is the master of his craft.

[@Lazaven]

He's the final boss of atheism

[@owenwilliams105]

@@Lazaven God doesn't believe in a higher power - he is an atheist.

[@Zachorazor1]

Says, "I'm not arguing for theism." Spends the next half hour arguing for Theism.

[@brothercaleb]

Hour?

[@Zachorazor1]

@@brothercaleb No. 32 mins. I said half hour. Did you have trouble learning what the big hand and the little hand are for, on a clock, in kindergarten?

[@brothercaleb]

@@Zachorazor1 I clearly missed that… my bad.

[@Zachorazor1]

@@brothercaleb Fair enough. Seemed like a weird thing to try to correct someone on. All jokes or scorn aside, I'm just checking that you're ok. If you need to chat, heck or argue about trivialities, because you're having a tough time, I can help by doing either, I guess. These are trying times, so I just wanted to check.

[@brothercaleb]

@@Zachorazor1 yh I’m ok. I just wasn’t reading right... I was in a hurry. It’s a lesson for me to make sure I understand about what others write/say before offering a correction. I appreciate you checking on me. Thank you.

[@STHSilqueira]

100 years ago: We have no idea how rain is formed, it MUST be something supernatural. Do you know how it's formed? Can you make rain happen at will? No? There we go, rain is a supernatural occurrence. Case closed. God is real.

[@dentyx]

Poor Jonathan... He thought he had something...

[@Control_alt_delete]

It always gets them. They search for the things that sound intelligent that agrees with them instead of asking themselves how would you show it to be wrong.

[@ericscaillet2232]

Effectively, we all think that we have something , but yes his something is funny.

[@samcyphers2902]

Drinking Game: take a shot every time this guy brings up the "dictionary definition" of something. You will get alcohol poisoning in the first 5 minutes.

[@TMcCamby]

Every time he says “I would argue,” he proceeds to give some fallacy or apologetic.

[@barryweatherley5046]

The notion that man must be designed by a creator is absurd. I can think of many flaws in our makeup. One of which is that we sleep a whole third of our entire lives away. If I were designing a being it would definitely not require to be so vulnerable.

[@walnutoil100]

The notion that man must be designed by a creator is absurd.- Your evidence is? How did nature create life? Where did the information required for life come from?

[@barryweatherley5046]

I explained why I believe it to be absurd. It’s an opinion and doesn’t require evidence. I never stated anything as fact.

[@walnutoil100]

@@barryweatherley5046 - Oh so that was just your emotional outburst and you have no evidence for your claims- ok they can be ignored due to lack of evidence. "I never stated anything as fact."- Yes you did - you made absolute truth claims like "is absurd"- " I can think of many flaws in our makeup." - You just equivocate because you, like all atheists, know there is no evidence for atheism.

[@barryweatherley5046]

Hilarious! Try again troll!

[@walnutoil100]

@@barryweatherley5046 - Just another childish atheist chasing his faith

[@ianchisholm5756]

Towards the end, Jonathan starts citing the Biologic Institute. They are creationists whose agenda is to present intelligent design as a scientific theory. .

[@jeffkindschuh8888]

Dillahunty crushing it. Jeezus

[@ngcastronerd4791]

I can only describe this as the most elaborate and eloquent word salad ive ever heard.

[@hhvictor2462]

"Spew Farting Out of the Caller's Ass" should've been the title of this episode.

[@LittleDays]

Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding” Caller: Proverbs 14:15 The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps. 🤔

[@Oxus21]

“Cummulative case”? Is that when the plural of “anecdote” becomes “evidence”? “The odds are astronomically small”? Astronomical you say? How big is the universe? So much loaded language with this guy.

[@francoisona]

To conclude: pulling things out of your butt intelligently is still pulling things out of your butt.

[@starlaminde8436]

Lol I’m stealing this sentence 😂

[@funkmasterlovecraft3577]

DNA does not contain information. It is a functional molecule. We call it 'code' because it is a convenient analogy.

[@merlin72001]

Matt debated the guy on Modern Day Debates & he rage quit when Matt told him he wasn't going to just believe his bald assertions.

[@alucarderipmavtube]

Complexity is not the hallmark of design. In fact, the inverse us true. Simplicity is the hallmark of design, or rather the hallmark of good design. A lever is a designed simple machine. A machine capable of doing more using less is more towards a given task or goal is more efficient, elegant and just objectively better.

[@freddan6fly]

A theistic caller with a brain that goes in circles with world class mental acrobatics, who could have thunk?

[@norcodaev]

I know right, I’m shocked. Shocked I say!

[@JayJay-two]

Yes I know "I'm appalled. This is appalling. I'm appalled Minister" - not verbatim from Yes Minister 🤣🤣🤣

[@FourDeuce01]

Jonathan: “We only know of one cause for information.” If you’re gonna tell a lie, make it a whopper.💩

[@constructivecritique5191]

Synonyms of faith don't support belief based on lack of evidence.

[@AbleAnderson]

The real question here is why is it so important for them to dig in on the word faith? I believe bc it sets them up for a later equivocation, period.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

Given the all too regular response from theists when asked for their evidence, either immediately or after their “evidence is shown to be flawed, default to “I just use faith”, this caller cannot possibly argue that one, if not the most common, usage of “faith” by theists is an accurate synonym for “trust” or “confidence”.

[@walnutoil100]

so why do atheists use faith only? Why can't they present evidence?

[@Heathen.Deity.]

@@walnutoil100 evidence for what?

[@walnutoil100]

@@Heathen.Deity. - evidence god does not exist.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

@@walnutoil100 if someone says god doesn’t exist, that on them to prove. Do all atheists say god doesn’t exist?

[@Heathen.Deity.]

@@walnutoil100 I guess that was a little too hard for you to grasp fully.

[@AlexPBenton]

The issue with arguing against this position is that he claims that *everything* is designed, so you can’t point to something which you both agree is not designed but would appear designed under his view, because everything is designed according to him.

[@AlexPBenton]

@Viktor Tandofsky Faith isn’t the belief, faith is the bad excuse for the belief.

[@sycofreake1]

@Viktor Tandofsky ergo it's as useless as the people that use it😁

[@walnutoil100]

How did life begin without design?

[@walnutoil100]

@Viktor Tandofsky - so atheism is faith

[@johnbell6114]

@@walnutoil100 not to my understanding, it is a conclusion about an assertion: theists assert that a god is responsible for our universe and everything in it, atheist's do not accept this assertion and see evidence of natural processes which have resulted in our universe and everything in it. The mechanics of which we seek to explain/understand step by step. The evidence for a magical being outside of space and time producing anything in our reality does not exist. If you have evidence for your version of a god or anything supernatural , lay out your case. Reference to a book by unknown authors, full of obvious contradictions and ridiculous imaginary proclamations is not a sound base for reality. But you're welcome to hold whatever beliefs you like, this is permissible here in the United States.

[@BeefT-Sq]

"Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence as proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one's senses and reason. " -Ayn Rand-

[@daveyellick6910]

Is it possible for something to have specified complexity without an intelligent agent doing the specifications? No - then your argument is completely circular. Yes - then specified complexity doesn’t even prove a creator anyways

[@jystme2437]

It's was a great call♾ thoroughly enjoyed listening ♾

[@geraldammons5520]

ARRGGH! His constant mumbly murrmering makes my skin crawl!

[@Arkloyd]

A person can have faith in anything, even things that are demonstrably not true. I'm not impressed by faith.

[@chriskelly3481]

I love that Matt absolutely disallowed this guy to get away with his idiotic circular arguments.

[@JayMaverick]

You believe because of wishful thinking, Jonathan, just deal with it.

[@truerealrationalist]

If you accept a proposition without evidence, you have faith. You can call it something else, if the word "faith" offends you, but that's ultimately meaningless. After all, the primary complaints regarding religious faith (perceived gullibility and action being informed by belief so-derived) still apply.

[@hailsagan7980]

Philosophy can't will a deity into existence.

[@leach5494]

You might only know two people 🤣

[@elanejoreserva]

... but thanks for calling. lol

[@joelonsdale]

Having never been indoctrinated and therefore having never believed, a debate such as this is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't matter how you arrange the words, the very idea of 'god' is patently 'hooey' and requires deliberate self-deception, willful ignorance and a rejection of the scientific method.

[@heavymeddle28]

I think trust is more a word I'd use If someone/something has shown me that I can predict what will happen. Right or wrong, I trust that my old watch that's always been good to me will give me correct time when I use it. I believe that a watch I just found is giving me the correct time but I wouldn't say that I trust it

[@RickyisSwan]

And then the battery goes flat🙀

[@heavymeddle28]

@@RickyisSwan Flat as the earth itself 😅

[@RickyisSwan]

@@heavymeddle28 . Rubbish. If it was, cats would’ve knocked everything off it by now. 🙀🙀🙀

[@heavymeddle28]

@@RickyisSwan 😂

[@RickyisSwan]

@@heavymeddle28 🙀🙀

[@hayleycomet8029]

Jonathan's got heart, I'll say that. He's like a guy in a fight that keeps getting knocked down, throwing weak punches, if any, but keeps getting back up. All the onlookers yelling "Just stay down, man!" But he keeps flailing. In the end, bloodied and swollen, teeth missing. And much like Charlie Zelenoff, he thinks he won.

[@tradergirljam]

Dude thanks for the chuckle 🤣 😂 😆 😄

[@TheSnoeedog]

Never play chess with a pigeon! It kicks over all the pieces, It shits on the board, Then flies home to brag to its friends how it won!

[@chrispbacon3042]

@@TheSnoeedog Funny and so so true.

[@GhostyGhost7007]

What do you mean? Charlie Z is the world champ in every weight class. Beat Deontay Wilder himself

[@mrdrone4253]

Jonathan would argue anyting no matter how irrational it is

[@jimwallington437]

These religious apologists always have the same flaw in their argument. I don't understand how it happened so it must be a supernatural being. If humans are so complex that we needed a designer then how can one believe that a God who must be far more complex than humans did not require a designer. The argument is ludicrous.

[@ericscaillet2232]

Wether you agree with Matt or not , that was a good wave , 10 all around from all judges😉

[@megamus3]

Jonathon Trusts jesus to answer his countless prayers..oh how many times has jesus shattered this trust, but the next second Jonathan is back trusting him again..amazing.

[@dankendra5093]

Like a good abused spouse. " He hits me because he loves me"

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Sounds more like faith than trust.

[@robdumond2634]

Why do these guys always drone like that? It sounds like they're just driving through rehearsed speech fragments.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

When you resort to criticising someone’s usage of a word, when it’s demonstrable that it is a common usage in the way the person explained, it sums up how much evidence you have. Dear me 😂

[@robdumond2634]

@@Heathen.Deity. - I referred to his monotone speech and pace. Nowhere did I refer to word usage. There is a pattern that I have noticed, with some callers.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

@@robdumond2634 sorry, I was agreeing with you and was referring to the caller’s criticism, not yours. 👍🏼

[@jimappleby3545]

I think you've answered your own question.

[@dartharaneus67]

Trust refers to a confidence in someone or something that is built on knowledge accumulated over time (which is why it takes time to build but can be lost quickly). Faith on the other end is confidence based on non existant or unsubstantiated knowledge (I believe because I believe). There. Done.

[@thenightlifenj1]

And again this is jonathon mclatchie from canada. He calls in from numerous states cause he doesn't have the balls to use his real name and location anymore. Matt has shown him the holes in his arguments numerous times yet he still calls.

[@elementalargon7597]

Even if that's true, I've gotta say this was one of the best segments of AXP that I've seen (and I've watched A LOT of them). Matt stays calm throughout and completely demolishes "Jonathan's" "argument."

[@Kawa856]

Canada? Pretty sure he's from the UK originally, but works as an assistant professor of biology (at a Christian college tho obviously), in the US. Matt did a debate with him on the Modern Day Debates channel last year, which was pretty embarassing for Jonathan. He rage quit halfway through and the only thing he kept doing was pointing to the bible.

[@thenightlifenj1]

@@Kawa856 oh I saw that one too lol that was amazing. I'm pretty sure he's originally from Canada. I'd not than his accent is from like the woods of Pennsylvania or something lol

[@theresawilliams4296]

Your right, this guy says he is from Arizona as well. It just shows how shifty and down right disingenuous these religious people like him are. They are only hurting their own cause by carrying on like this.

[@chrislabonte3582]

@@thenightlifenj1 Accent is Scottish (highly educated Scottish, mind you).

[@CulturedWhiteBoy]

Some big words used on this call.

[@darksoul479]

9.5 for the mental gymnastics.

[@chrispbacon3042]

Come on now we all know in our hearts the universe is fine tuned purely for the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster…Ramen.

[@garybaltiejus7248]

Faith - meaning "Belief without proof or evidence"

[@johnobrien6415]

Well, you gotta admit, this caller did his homework. All proofs of God are circular of course, but he made one freakin' big circle. A freakin' big circle stubbornly stuck too. Damm, somebody spent some time on building a circle.

[@MasterSpade]

Religious "faith" is the "Politically Correct" way of calling it what it truly is, that being - BLIND faith. Blind faith in something is when you believe in something you Cannot See(hence the BLIND part) but you Hope is true. That Blind faith is what ALL religions/belief in gods are based on. According to the bibles themselves, it describes "faith" as Blind Faith. Faith is the belief in something with no Evidence. So you cannot have "Faith" AND "Real Evidence". It's either/or. It's all about being Gullible. Unless you want to go against the "word of god"!?

[@walnutoil100]

So present some evidence god does not exist and atheism will not be blind ignorant faith.

[@MasterSpade]

@@walnutoil100 -- Being Atheist means that I believe there is ZERO Real Evidence for ANY 'god'. I was a Brainwashed christian for the first 35 years of my life. Then....I read the bibles. Ironically, I read them to 'get closer to what I thought was our lord and savior'. If only more people would actually READ their 'holy' books, instead of having them read TO them. If you claim that there IS a god, then the Burdon of Proof is on you. In that case, you are the one making the Positive Claim. Can you Prove your god to be real? Go ahead. Also remember, if you do believe in one 'god', but don't believe in any of the others, then that means that you too are an Atheist when it comes to ALL the tens of thousands of other Claimed gods. "I contend we are both Atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

[@John-md8wb]

@@walnutoil100 Is that all you got left? jesus that's pretty sad. Prove pink universe farting pixies don't exist. You are evidence religion causes brain damage.

[@haydden_pogi]

Trying to reason with a Christian or someone who believes in “intelligent” design is like talking to a brick…futile. Jonathan is a PERFECT example of that. He’s suffering from Dunning-Kruger…🙄

[@kobe51]

So... this is really David Robertson from the UK calling in, right (without his usual snark and antagonism)?

[@sebasticus9167]

Jonathan McLatchie i think his name is

[@vincentranger09]

@@sebasticus9167 I just looked this go up, apparently he has called in 3 times before

[@tomterific390]

The only examples of design that we have available to us are designs by humans. We know that humans exist and we know that they design things. We have no such knowledge about the claimed supernatural intelligent designer, so the attempt to use human design as an analogy for natural order is dead at the starting gate.

[@MonicaHernandez-yn8ct]

the sound in the video is not synchronized

[@christopherianlister5212]

john cant understand a circular case.

[@stephenkiernan8520]

No matter how eloquent or intelligent the person sounds the argument is never ever any different. These people have got nothing.

[@olyolu2337]

And u have something right ! ? 😊

[@stevestevens6852]

What if I have faith that Allah or a different God exist is that evidence that that God actually exists if it's not then it's not evidence that the Christian God exists

[@ednelson2501]

Abraham. He was the one that started all this. The God of Abraham is widely seen as the " main " God. All other Gods are secondary. You will not find any evidence. But it is a lie that has lasted ; as long as any other. A story that has been told as truth for thousands of years.

[@stevestevens6852]

@@ednelson2501 bit is it the truth ?

[@ednelson2501]

@@stevestevens6852 Not one person on this planet knows. That is why we debate it.

[@LM-jz9vh]

@@ednelson2501 The Abrahamic god Yahweh was originally a lesser god in the Canaanite pantheon and son of the chief god El and inherited the top spot and El’s wife as the Israelites transitioned from polytheism to monotheism before religious reforms. He followed the same development as other gods in the ANE as a junior god in the pantheon that usurped the throne. It's Hebrew mythology.

[@ednelson2501]

@@LM-jz9vh That sounds good. If El is the father of all Gods, why does no one worship him * ? People worship whatever they think is the true God. Yahweh, Jehova, Ja, WHWH. Mohammed, Allah. There is a bunch of others. I think that more religious people should worship El. Yet no one does. * * almost no one. ~ It turns out that El is the one true God ! The father of all Gods. El is God the father. { I could start my own church with this. }

[@JeremyHammerstein-b4l]

What do you believe and why is what’s important here. Not how people use the word faith. That’s only important if someone mentions faith and another person in the conversation doesn’t know what they mean by it. Then the person who doesn’t know what they mean by faith simply asks what they mean by faith, then the other person tells them, then that’s it. There’s no use in discussing here what other people mean by faith.

[@rickschofield3131]

Blessed is he who has not seen and yet believes- Sums it up very well

[@the-trustees]

You'd THINK that an "omni-gpd" that "wants a personal relationship with every human" wouldn't have created a universe where it could NOT be demonstrated scientifically or through reason to exist. Therefore, no christian god character can possibly exist. 🎤⬇️

[@egalitarius8582]

I always figured it ment faith without evidence.

[@slimjim227]

Faith is just Hope, dressed up in a halo. (Holy Hope)

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

Hey, slimjim: Your statement is very close to what the Bible says: "Faith is the substance of things hoped for." Good for you!

[@slimjim227]

@@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921 And hope is just wishful thinking , as is religious belief.

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

@@slimjim227 Hey, slimjim: You are wrong if you think that Jesus Christ / The God of the Bible is just wishful thinking. Please don't bet your life on that. Take care.

[@slimjim227]

@@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921 If you want to accept and spread the 4500 year old creation myths that scientifically ignorant people made up then carry on, but you should not be surprised when people who have not had their childhood blighted by being force fed the religious beliefs of their parents ridicule them. That I can find reasons to reject god is surely an indication that the bible was not written or inspired by a supernatural deity. If it was I wouldn’t be able to find reasons. Best wishes.

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

@@slimjim227 Hey, Slim: God has given you free will. You are free to reject God. That's your own will in action. However, Jesus Christ / The God of the Bible says in His word that He doesn't want anyone to be lost. Please reconsider. I will continue to pray for you. Take care.

[@ARoll925]

Jonathan mclatchie is one of the most dishonest people I have ever heard

[@teresaamanfu7408]

Jonathan clearly lied there. He is clearly a presup guy .

[@harriemeijers9826]

As a believer in any god, you don't need to study anything. Any article you find online can be used to backup your claims. You just use the ones you understand and fit what you like.

[@gk4y4]

Matt said no peer reviewed paper exists that brings information that will disprove evolution. Caller says there are many papers. He clearly not understand what peer review is.

[@opalacios666]

BRAVO MATT!!!

[@thespicablethinker7950]

Friendly reminder: Johnathan votes

[@davidlewis726]

How do I, as churches do, persuade people such as Jonathon to hand buckets of cash to me while defending vehemently their flawed reasons for doing so?

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Become a guru. Bring Me The Horizon‘s “Mantra” has the blueprint.

[@Kolopsych]

Evidence, that which is evident.

[@Jarv263]

I’m listening to this with headphones wile I’m working, thought this was a solo show with just Matt 😂

[@starlaminde8436]

,most of them appear like that and I’m ok with it

[@Jarv263]

@@starlaminde8436 but rude to the guest host though.

[@zendavesta1027]

@@Jarv263 because the callers like this one try to call and shell them with intelligent sounding bs to say at the end “gotcha!”. Matt has more experience to cut their crap

[@tedgrant2]

According to Jesus, a little faith is all you need to remove a mountain (Matthew 17:20) or if you are less ambitious, remove a tree (Luke 17:6), but nobody believed him. According to scientists, nuclear weapons can remove mountains and everybody believes it. So it seems science is far more reliable than ancient fables.

[@ednelson2501]

When God revealed his name to Moses. YHWH. People did not use vowels yet. If God is all knowing, then he must be stupid. God should have written his name properly. He did not ! Why ?

[@coffeetalk924]

My name is SN lol

[@ednelson2501]

@@coffeetalk924 Exactly; SNPCK !! YHWH is maybe his first name. Or maybe it is the origin of Christian names. Which to you was a joke. ( not bad ) but thousands of years ago, You would just be SN. Can you turn your name into Jehova in under 5 moves ? lol. Maybe thats how they did it. Sean Pick is really Mohammed. 8 letters. It all makes sense now. " Yer never too old to learn. " Thanx TH .

[@n0w3lly90]

"I want to believe something so much that I am willing to aid and abet the ruination of education, scientific and investigative processes just to smuggle it in". The danger to education is real

[@LeonRedmond-u3r]

Biblical faith is simply trusting God and taking Him at His word

[@bpdrumstudio]

Does anyone know if this is Jonathan Malachite?

[@gbtusa1325]

This guy sure is a product of intelligent design

[@nicholasagnew2792]

Physics have not been "tuned" or "optimized". The laws are what they are. Perhaps can be warped or even broken with some high technology but they haven't been invented, how does an intelligent person make such jumps in logic...put the bong down? idk

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Because our culture values logic and rationality over their opposites. The faithful therefore desperately want to base their faith on something more than pure irrationality because that doesn’t sell. There’s no good _logical_ reason for adopting religious faith (there might be good emotional reasons from a utilitarian standpoint).

[@bobbrereton4785]

Good, respectful, lively give and take.

[@dankendra5093]

Was it? Because John gave nothing and tried to take everything.

[@sunsetman1479]

we wont need the word faith if there was evidence for god.. i have faith that when i turn on a light switch a bulb will illuminate because the bulb is there and we know why it comes on.

[@L98fiero]

Sounds like an intelligent individual, just goes to show that intelligent people _can_ be stupid. I'm impressed that Matt put up with the bullshit so long.

[@majmage]

If someone is actually intelligent, they aren't stupid, so at best you can say they're _intelligent but misled._ (And that IS the case with some theists. Perhaps including the caller, I don't know how smart he actually is.)

[@L98fiero]

@@majmage The caller seems well read, is articulate and understands logic but the conclusions he comes to are foolish, he's not ignorant because that would mean he's not educated but he's come to foolish conclusions because of false premises that he insists upon without justification. If one insists upon a false premise how can you consider that misled? BTW, foolish is just a nicer way of saying stupid.

[@spookyactionatadistance1316]

Intelligence and sanity can be compromised by the cognitive dissonance created by the failure to consistently apply rules of critical thinking to religious indoctrination. It's the indoctrination that is stupid and inane. Just as with any victim of abuse, those who are thus compromised fail to see the abuser as such and tend to exhibit behaviors such as surrender to the abuser and taking responsibility and blame on themselves. PA sort of "Stockholm Syndrome". The problem with reaching threes victims is that the usual atheist response is it's passivity toward the victim along with relative aggression to the indoctrination. Such approach ends up making the victim become more invested and protective toward the indoctrination. Making yourself more is a perceived allyto the victim and creating a sort of conspiracy of freedom from abuse while offering an alternative interpretation to the indoctrination in a methodical exposing the manipulation progressing to eventual debunking the indoctrination belief itself. Help the victim feel like you're an ally. Care needs to be taken to preserve the feeling of a clandestine partnership with the victim so they don't regress. Victim grooming can be quite persistent.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

Yeah, I don’t think he’s stupid. He’s clearly educated in many areas, but unfortunately indoctrination is a powerful thing.

[@geraldammons5520]

I cannot listen to this guy very long. He has (not an answer) but a response to EVERYTHING. Whether it makes sense or not. He has to get the last word, NO MATTER WHAT. He is CLEARLY not interested in conversation under any of the fake names he calls in with. (He thinks he's clever, making up fake names, but it actually shows how UNclever and deceptive he is!)

[@ZoeiiZiZZles]

some people believe that they hear voices or see things that others don't see, why do I have to validate their delusions?

[@integrationalpolytheism]

This is Jonathan McClatchie, yes?