Belief by Default Instead of Disbelief by Default | Clint - SC | Atheist Experience 23.24

The Atheist Experience 23.24 for June 9, 2019 with Matt Dillahunty & Jenna Belk.
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[@JMUDoc]

"I just tossed a coin - can you prove it's not heads?" "No." "So you must believe it IS heads. Can you prove it's not tails?" "No." "So you must believe it IS tails. You now believe it's both heads AND tails, and are guaranteed to be wrong."

[@DocBree13]

love this

[@studlord9970]

Except that he was wrong. He CAN prove it's not heads. Or tails. All he has to do is look at it. Something which cannot be done with any gods.

[@Vladimiros82]

It's actually a lot worse. It's like rolling a dice. And the dice has 4000 sides!

[@bodricpriest8816]

@@Vladimiros82 No, it's like rolling a dice with an indeterminate and indeterminable number of sides which we are unable to look at when it lands.

[@kirklarson4536]

I have a cat in a box...

[@peddler931]

There are over 4000 religions currently being practised with over 10,000 gods worshipped. He has a lot of work ahead of him.

[@kayem3824]

The 9999 gods are not the problem, it's the one Abrahamic one that is the problem.

[@shubhampk7091]

Nearly every village in India has a unique god , so the total number is at least in millions

[@thephilosophermma8449]

All the Gods are same , even if you ask them they’ll say

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

@Alfalfa Jones Not One Flaming "god" EVER ! ................

[@MegaeffinGarchomp17]

Im curious as to how much investigation he has actually done to narrow down what he believes?

[@deathwrenchcustom]

Caller: "I'm really glad I got through to you." Me: "Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves." XD

[@aricliljegren890]

So true - nice to hear others caught this as well.

[@francoisona]

Brilliant! Am at the gym and just burst out laughing . Thanks

[@burke615]

I had a similar thought, but your formulation was definitely more pithy. Well played, sir!

[@deathwrenchcustom]

@@burke615 Yeah, I'm full of pith. And vinegar. Lol

[@burke615]

@Jebus Bhrist Say what you like about being a nerd, it pays well!

[@garychap8384]

Poor Clint. I get the impression that he's right on the verge of a major breakthrough - and resisting it like a real trooper : )

[@Heathen.Deity.]

Exactly. To me, he knows he’s got ho evidence to support his beliefs, but he simultaneously knows that logic would dictate that one shouldn’t believe things without reason, or it would be irrational. He doesn’t want to punt the beliefs, so he’s trying his level-best to fight the logic.

[@jayjonah83]

Based on this call he's almost deconverted. He's going through that point where he's realizing his beliefs don't quite make sense and he's trying desperately to justify them

[@w8m4n]

It's crazy how far people go to avoid saying "you know what? That makes sense, I was wrong, thanks for changing my mind."

[@sunworship5080]

Wow this guy needs a huge does of logic...exhausting to listen to

[@ae90tuner]

Or just saying "I dont know".

[@w8m4n]

@@ae90tuner that one seems even harder for some folk

[@markwalding8205]

Trouble is...these people have based their whole lives on this shit.

[@toshir0m1]

@Adam Weightman I don't agree ^^ I would say it's *not* skeptic to immediately change your mind when someone presents an argument which appears to you as a good sound argument in the heat of the discussion. Couldn't you have fallen to some unusual fallacy? Couldn't you be tired that day and not see why some premise is flawed? Acknowledging the opposing argument is one thing, but "changing one's mind" should probably not happen DURING the discussion ^^

[@divisiveamerica7764]

"Oh yea, you're right... but only kind of" "Why?" "Because I don't want to admit I'm completely wrong."

[@KL-lt8rc]

Caller: "I prefer knowing more true things than not knowing false things" Matt: "You don't know anything" 🤣🤣🤣

[@OvershadowENT]

😭😭😭😭

[@sunofsotep8265]

Read this comment at the exact moment in the video.

[@KillerOrangeCat]

We really need to have a critical thinking test that people should have to pass in high school in order to graduate. I mean, seriously. Some states require civics and other things. But come on, critical thinking classes would make the world a freaking better place even if only a couple people learn.

[@TheOicyu812]

DMV needs to do the same thing before issuing a driver's license to people.

[@Vyral714]

THANK YOU. Ugh so nice to hear someone else say this. It's incredible how many people are walking around that have zero critical thinking skills whatsoever to the point where they are completely oblivious of their lack in this skill. The world would be a MUCH better place if critical thinking was taught and it's absurd that it isn't

[@jamesgossweiler1349]

Problem is that the people in the room belong to the same demographic cohort as the people you identify with "zero critical thinking skills." Research it...today's 18 to 35-year olds in the U.S. are the academically weakest since the 1960s.

[@KillerOrangeCat]

I know it wouldn’t be a complete fix but if it’s able to give even a few people enough knowledge to quit making these awful arguments, it would be worth it.

[@KillerOrangeCat]

Ken very very true. I am surprised that hadn’t occurred to me :)

[@mfbjo6854]

This guy sounds like he just had philosophy 101 and it made his brain explode

[@the_regular_dinosaurus_rex]

If people at least took a 101 course that would be a step in the right direction... Most of them read something on the interwebs, MAYBE buy some books they think sound interesting but never talk about it with people who have actually studied it. And so they "dunning-krueger" themselves...

[@robertbetz8461]

Steve Martin joke: I learned just enough philosophy in college to fuck me up for the rest of my life.

[@Glasschin2.0]

Sounds to me that he knows he has no reason to believe in a god but years of indoctrination are stopping him, so he’s trying hard to come up with a reason to still believe

[@ross-carlson]

I kept thinking "then you must believe in fairies, ghosts, the boogyman, leprechauns and the Lochness monster, right? How utterly absurd to believe FIRST and ask for evidence later. The delusion is strong with this one.

[@ross-carlson]

@@arthousefilms By his logic he must, right? I mean seriously, this is that stupid. I tried explaining this to a friend and they couldn't even understand me it's so fucking bizarre.

[@ross-carlson]

@Corey They do and I think a big part of it is the desire to feel special. It's been shown that the vast majority of people massively over-estimate their own intelligence while massively under-estimating everyone else's. When you're truly not that intelligent to begin with your brain overcompensates by letting you believe these crazy conspiracies, that way you're the special, smart one on the inside while everyone else are the "sheep" or whatever term they want to use. What's really sad is these people vote and breed, affecting us all in the process.

[@ross-carlson]

@Corey It absolutely is - we joke about it but the fact is it does exist and is a powerful force that's very hard to overcome, especially when you have bullshit like religion and Faux News in the world.

[@ross-carlson]

@David Anewman What evidence? And why would I take anything on faith? Faith should absolutely be ridiculed - is there anything you can't believe based on faith? Nope, as such faith is in *no way* a path to truth, it is belief in something without evidence. Without reason. Faith should be mocked.

[@antwnhs213]

@David Anewman It will be fun when someone that sells you a bridge makes that statement.

[@georgesmith2905]

The saddest part is he agrees with everything that was said bit as soon as he gets off the phone, he's probably gonna go back to thinking what he started with.

[@ross-carlson]

Just like the majority of theist callers - something will make him think "ah, that's what I should have said, see I am right!" and the worst part, he will actually think he won some how and try to spread this bullshit to others. Even worse those around him will likely encourage him if he tells them this story.

[@TheSnoeedog]

I love when the callers bring out the big words like "syllogistic form" and "fallacious reasoning" as they fall down a flight of stairs with their pants pulled down to their ankles...like pigeons on a chessboard, shaking up the 5 monopoly pieces, rolling them hard and yelling YAHTZEE!

[@qwadratix]

'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice apologetics'.

[@raysalmon6566]

Depends how you study it

[@kosys5338]

Actually I love how this guy thinks. One can make a fortune off people like this. Oh, wait,TV preachers are already doing that very thing. Hmm, go figure. Well, now we know why TV Evangelists do what they do. Because they can, with thinking like that who's to stop them. Faith is a realm of ignorance, there is no truth or wisdom to be found in such a place. The path to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant and the path to atheist is littered with bibles. Free yourself from the fear of god for this fear only exists within the realm of ignorance.

[@raysalmon6566]

@CrazyReii History isn't supposed truth

[@bazcuda]

'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice self-deception' :D

[@BudgetFilmmaking]

@@raysalmon6566 And the bible isn't history.

[@Pranav-rp8wi]

Clint graduated from Jordon Peterson academy of Tap-dance.

[@christopherseton-smith7404]

Sap-Dance?

[@JMUDoc]

Well, that all depends what you mean by "of"...

[@WukongTheMonkeyKing]

This guy may not understand the difference between "innocent" and "not guilty".

[@theric66]

to the majority it sounds the same because unless proven guilty you are innocent but there is a difference, Innocent means that you did not commit the crime. Not Guilty means that there was not enough evidence to determine that you did commit the crime

[@WukongTheMonkeyKing]

@@theric66 also because requiring proving of innocence would result in a 'proving a negative' situation. The atheist experience has posited multiple times that god has been found not guilty of existing.

[@theric66]

@@WukongTheMonkeyKing you can not be not guilty of anything if you don't exist

[@WukongTheMonkeyKing]

@@theric66 proving something doesn't exist is proving a negative. The most reasonable answer is then to say that something has not been proven to exist.

[@theric66]

@@WukongTheMonkeyKing i do agree

[@kimweaver3323]

Skepticism is not just the method to discover reality, but it is the motivation to do the discovery.

[@ferretneck]

As soon as Matt touches his index finger to his thumb, you know your argument is screwed.

[@Vyral714]

@nuff sed Agreed. We are truly lucky to have people like Matt who have a public platform to teach critical thinking and lead by example. And as far as his sometimes aggressive demeanor, honestly I think if I had to deal with the number of frustratingly ignorant people that he does I would lose my mind So honestly his patience is mind blowing. TLDR thank you Matt for doing what you do

[@kandacesprings]

nuff sed Agreed!! Great comment.

[@dannielz6]

No its when he goes for a drink of soda lol

[@frankmcgovern5445]

I was sitting next to him in a bar once and he did that and at the moment his thumb and forefinger met, somehow the word "Asinine" was produced. It was amazing.

[@salliemckenna6668]

Phil The Logician you mean to tell me people like eating meat, crazy stuff lmao

[@ApocryphalDude]

South Carolina: fighting Mississippi and Alabama for the bottom rung.

[@riceburner888]

Missouri, Florida, Texas, Georgia, and Arkansas are all furiously throwing down in that competition too!

[@zapkvr]

Don't leave out Tennessee

[@clevernamehere]

Tennessee Atheist here !!!

[@seanjones2456]

Don't forget Kentucky! The home of Noah's Ark! School children go there and learn that dinosaurs were on the ark. Fart sound

[@tjw9985]

Arizona built the bottom rung so it had something to aspire to. I love my home state. However it needs some help.

[@Captainmacmanny]

I believe every Nigerian prince till I get scammed!

[@zoe0187]

😂

[@Arkloyd]

You beat me to it, Sir.

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

Of course, may I introduce my Nigerian Daddy KING ...............

[@francoisona]

Brilliant

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

@@francoisona But it says in his scriptures that he will bring me much money ................

[@thewhat531]

Poor guy. His mind is poisoned by religion. I can almost feel his frustration through the screen. Yo Clint: I'm routing for you, buddy! You can do it!

[@autohmae]

@Folk Aart no, they are given to them just after birth when the mind is more impressionable.

[@cainthebastard7053]

Folk Aart ... No, I believe religion is a very sugar coated coping mechanism. Unfortunately it isn’t a truthful mechanism.

[@autohmae]

@Folk Aart so many stopped doing so, but not easy to let go of something you were pretty much indoctrinated with.

[@thewhat531]

Jesus is Dog : how are you doing, my man!

[@spocksvulcanbrain]

"rooting"

[@NastyLittleBagginses]

This is one of those callers that I have to watch in chunks. I get so frustrated, I have to pause the video, and wait a while before starting it up again.

[@papaquonis]

The good thing is he actually acknowledges some of the problems in his thinking by the end of the call. There might be hope for him yet.

[@Scalesti]

PapaQ no there is no hope. He’s in the comment section spouting the same bullshit😒😑

[@commbir5148]

This was a frustrating call to hear. The caller was very adamant in their own defense, but didn't seem to ever realize the consequences of the reasoning they were advocating. This despite Matt and Jenna's painstaking breakdown of the problems. The caller sounded genuinely interested in learning so hopefully they call back and are willing to listen a little bit more.

[@jeremymeek471]

The lack of understanding is strong with this one.

[@Magnus_Loov]

The amount of patience Matt has to endure during these shows is almost unimaginable. It just doesn't matter how much sense you make in your arguments, when the person at the other end just simply won't take it in.

[@DarthMalikify]

Amazing to hear the caller disregard the court room analogy as if it didn't contradict his premise. Right over his head, amazing.

[@prideguy18m]

Sounds as if this guy is super fearful of letting go of his beliefs 🤷🏽‍♂️ idk

[@Belikel]

He's dishonest as fuck, is all.

[@anamf247]

Yeah, I agree with this. I think he'll eventually realize the crock of shit he's spouting and he'll let it go. When you've been indoctrinated from a young age, it takes some time to come to terms with non-belief.

[@Jason918114]

Fear is a powerful motivator and can be useful. Too bad it isn't as useful as back when we were hunter/gatherers - when we didn't have the tools of science.

[@cameronvadnais4388]

Agreed

[@owlstead]

On the bright side: he's only got one additional belief to discard, unfortunately it's the one he started off with believing as true.

[@Ozone280]

The Trinity: ignorance and arrogance holding hands whilst wishful thinking lurks in the background

[@zemorph42]

@Hillary's emails to Lorne I think they stole the idea from Pagans. Ever hear about the triple Goddess? They(Christian theologians) probably took the idea of a triune deity, threw away everything that made even a little sense, changed the gender and turned a metaphor for the stages of a woman's life into a three-headed patriarchal monster.

[@ipuppysmith8428]

Even if you started out with a position that every religion was true, then found reasons to believe all but one of them was fallacious, you still would not be able to know the one that remains is true, only that you were so far unable to rule it out as being false.

[@sharonsmith1203]

I hope he doesn't bite employees this way. His business would go down the tubes. "Let's find out if you are a bad employee!" Lmao

[@drg8687]

I only ever get religious advertisements when I watch the AE.

[@matthewsiejkowski4006]

Jebuslives Same and I think it’s more hilarious each and every time.

[@roder51]

Adblock

[@drg8687]

@@wienerdogsrule621 ohh little youngling, how do you think all this free content you watch on KZbin is paid for? If everyone used adblocker KZbin would not exist.

[@ericmishima]

I got an ad for The Great Debate Community!!

[@brucebaker810]

Cuz atheist stuff don't advertise. And religions get money thrown at them. Cuz they say Big Dude needs cash. We dont have that..

[@peteralleyman1945]

Clint is as sharp as a bowling ball.

[@HorstEwald]

Am I the only one who liked the caller? I mean he started of with a false presupposition, then went length to come up with a complex (and very concoluted) justification for these beliefs. So far nothing unordinary. But he's seem to be straight out hostile to question his belief. He's trying to resist, but he is following Matt's logic and giving in, that his position is wrong. He's wwilling to go much further than most beliefers and I think he has a fairly decent chance to get out it.

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

No, you aren't. The guy seems to be on an exploratory voyage of thought...hopefully with a conclusion that results in critical examination of his beliefs. He seems well along the way.

[@HorstEwald]

@@DavidMiller-dt8mx thanks for commenting! Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed that twenty people liked my comment, which is, upon reading it myself, a freaking mess xD My god!

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

@@HorstEwald Nah, not so bad. I pretty much agree with it wholeheartedly.

[@ross-carlson]

While I agree part of what he said was "good" the skeptic in me thinks that the next day he woke up thinking "damn, I should have said X, Y, Z - as that would have got him!" and go right back to thinking he's correct. He'll tell the story to a loved one who will support him blindly, pat him on the head and say "good boy" and he'll be right back where he was. Or there will be some other fucked up circular way that he'll be back to his base beliefs. I hope you're right, but I'll need evidence to believe it.

[@caioribeiro3104]

Also, he started by steelmaning Matt's position, which, on itself, it's a very honest way so start a debate.

[@rudyhill9286]

Loved Matt's face palm and Jenn's frozen stare.

[@nuffflavor]

WHY.... does it takes SO LONG for these callers to get to their QUESTION ?!?!

[@jonc.m8717]

Spent most of life believing something false. Fearing what you believe. Afraid of the truth because it's been betrayed as the Devil. I Believed for year's. When i finally found courage to look other places. I feel so much better about life now! :( its sad in away. Im 30 now. some people believe this a whole life time. So i think they know just afraid of the truth. So it takes awhile to get to a point. lol

[@MM-bi8nm]

I'd rather listen to these confused people than listen to Darth Darwin

[@woodyuk9717]

@@MM-bi8nm I was just thinking the same thing! DD's voice is what awaits us if Hell turns out to be true.

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

They think they are clever .....................

[@Enjoymentboy]

It is incredibly hard to do while they are busy tap dancing. Their limited minds can only allow for one action at a time.

[@diggie9598]

Finally i took the step and seceded from the katholic church. Thanks to Matt, Russell, Tracie and all the other brilliant thinkers of this channel. You guys helped making my life better, i feel free now!

[@CMCSS-to3to]

Awesome

[@Gabriel_Cook]

"Maybe I'm screwed up, here." - Self Aware Theist.

[@coletrickle1775]

As self aware as a theist can be.

[@Nick-hk2vz]

Better that then remaining in ignorance. Even small steps should be applauded

[@lilmsgs]

The gymnastics people go through to defend an indefensible position. They so want it to be true and will irrationally turn themselves inside trying to make it true.

[@AC-gb7do]

bob hope it’s Olympic level mental gymnastics they use!

[@joecoolioness6399]

Question posed to an Atheist and a Theist, "why do you believe or not believe?" Atheist: "I don't have sufficient reason to believe" Theist: "Well, you see... "30 minutes later still has not answered the question.

[@rowleyj31]

This guy is like a shopping mall pretzel......all twisted up.

[@teresaamanfu7408]

👌🏾

[@mikekohary1075]

It's just amazing the mental gymnastics people will go through to convince themselves it's ok to believe something that's obviously legend and fairy tale. Some of the stuff I hear on your show, I'm like, "How does a person even think up things like this?" This was one of those calls for sure.

[@TheDahaka1]

The Schroedinger's believer: He's believing all of the religions until he rules them out XD

[@Alexagrigorieff]

Then the faith wavefunction collapses to a single religion.

[@spocksvulcanbrain]

That must be hella hard to keep all the tenets of each separate and follow them. I have a hard time remembering and following 2 of my favorite recipes.

[@timsn274]

@@spocksvulcanbrain It's 'tenets', just to be picky.

[@spocksvulcanbrain]

@@timsn274 Ooops. You're correct. I corrected it. Thanks.

[@vincentflannigan2727]

That freudian slip at the end "I want to believe as many true things and as many false things as possible" was actually correct. If you believe everything by default you will believe as many true things and as many false things as possible since you believe every single thing that people can think of.

[@starfishsystems]

INDISCRIMINATE belief - which is what the caller advocates - leads to both belief in true claims and belief in false claims. But it also nullifies attempts to separate the true claims from the false ones, so it's not methodologically useful.

[@nicolab2075]

Is it even possible? To believe every claim you hear???

[@paullever3713]

This is hard work, Matt is so patient, I take my hat off to Matt.

[@mihaicolceriu-nicola7148]

i love the way matt put his head in his palm,like i slaped mine,when hearing this guy talk lol

[@darrelgustafson2507]

Top 10 Curling teams !?! Are you kidding me? A guy from freeking Texas using Curling for a sports analogy. As a frost bitten Canadian boy I sure didn't see that comin ! Way cool !

[@gabiballetje]

That laugh of his is really a typical 'i laugh this way because i just found out i'm too stupid to grasp this simple thing but don;t want to face it or admit it' laugh .

[@Nick-hk2vz]

That's pretty ungenerous. He seemed like a nice guy who's being taught things he hasn't experienced before. Cut the dude some slack, there are so many worse people out there.

[@luciferdiablo2509]

@@Nick-hk2vz I agree alot of us was this guy.

[@ZhangK71]

@@luciferdiablo2509 A lot of people “were this guy” at one point, to be fair, but not me-I’ve made mistakes before many times, I’ve refused to own up to it rarely, and I’ve _never_ used laughter as a way to attempt to cover it up. So I get to still agree with Gabi that the caller is doing a “laugh away the awkwardness and stupidity” laugh.

[@gliblyaware]

Matt's face palm at 8:45. 😂😂🤣🤣😅😅

[@roqsteady5290]

There an infinite number of things that are not ruled out by logic alone, that could be outside my front door right now. That is why, in order to sensibly address what is really there, we have to start out by saying "I don't know what is out side my front door" and proceeding from there... Of course, I can find out what is really there by going and taking a look. On the other hand, sitting in my arm chair and weaving complex apologetic arguments about the possibilities as to what is out there is never going to get me any closer to knowing what is really there... Observation is the only way we can interact with the outside world.

[@sunzi42]

Clint is like a driver who refuse to ask anyone for directions when he is lost and insist that he knows the area just as good as a local.

[@James-ye7rp]

All teams could just as easily be deemed "the worst" and "the best" at the same time. This is the Schrodinger's Cat Puzzle.

[@SuperDipMonster]

That silly cat is sentient. It isn't a puzzle. It's frantically trying to claw its way out and when it does, you will be in trouble.

[@ryanp8518]

Best and worst are only opinions when the parameters upon which the judgments made are subjective. As soon as there is a goal (objectivity) they're no longer opinions. The human who can bench press the most is the best bench presser. John can bench press the most. John is the best bench presser. Not an opinion

[@James-ye7rp]

@@ryanp8518 That's it, exactly.

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

@@ryanp8518 Yes, and no. Which judgements are more important? There is enough variability in the teams to make a difference, while not so much in simple bench pressing. If not just the most weight was considered, but the number of reps, or the speed of the reps, or the form...John might not be the best after all.

[@ryanp8518]

@@DavidMiller-dt8mx idc which judgment is important. That is an objective basis to claim someone is the best. Import is extraneous and irrelevant

[@michafaine2433]

I had a neighbor tell me she was an empath... I asked her for proof and her response was "I'm standing in front of you". My rebuttal was, "Okay, I'm Jesus Christ, how do I know? Well, I'm standing right in front of you and I say so. Using one's argument back at them tends to work. She did end up crying and I felt bad. But I don't draw feelings into truth.

[@floorticket]

The pair of expressions is pretty funny at 8:45.

[@ConcealedCourier]

Clint demonstrated the foundational thinking behind "Last Argument Standing" apologetics.

[@brandondefalco8843]

This was one of my favorite segments. Loved it. I bet he’ll listen to this and hear where his flaws are in his logic.

[@gadflyofrunescape6917]

Seems like a genuinely nice guy. Childhood indoctrination is almost definitely the culprit behind his back assward logic. He actually didn’t sound too far from an atheist at some points. There is definitely still hope here.

[@anthonylong9067]

S. gloobal He will tremble the nations Kingdoms to fall one by one Victim to fall for temptations A daughter to fall for a son The ancient serpent deceiver The masses standing in awe He will ascend to the heavens Above the stars of God Hail satan Arcangelo Hail satan Welcome year zero

[@werriboy55]

@S. gloobal Why are you accepting any assertion without evidence?

[@Diviance]

@S. gloobal Did you post that "prophecy" while you were a biologist? Or was it when you were a zoologist? Or was it when you were a historian? Or was it when you were a marine biologist?

[@peteralleyman1945]

@S. gloobal I didn't read the prophecy. Can you repeat it here?

[@peteralleyman1945]

@S. gloobal I double checked. No prophecy. Just your hope about the guy not become an atheist. Weird

[@stephengibson4823]

He "seriously" took the challenge on logic and reason, an immediately goes about proving he failed that challenge. with pride in his voice.

[@xmillion1704]

He’s simply advocating for a multiple version of Pascal’s wager and blow smoke up the skirts of all of the gods.

[@arcaithe8030]

Imagine you have 2 jars, one you label “believe”, and the other you label “don’t believe”. Pretend that you’re given a marble whenever you’re presented with a claim . These marbles are blue when they are true claims and red when the claims are false. It’s important to note that when you are given a marble(or the claim) you either believe it or you don’t, so it will default to one of the jars before you evaluate it. This guy wants all marbles, red or blue, to go into the believe jar first before he sorts through them while the position that Matt(and myself) holds is that the marbles should go into the “don’t believe” jar until evaluated. If you value the statement, “I want to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible.” Then you must start by defaulting all claims into the “don’t believe” jar. Because the second a red marble goes into the “believe” jar, your are in conflict with the statement.

[@oldbatwit5102]

That's fine until you lose your marbles.

[@Baekstrom]

The reason for rejecting claims by default is that there are vastly many more ways to be wrong than there are ways to be right.

[@ColinRixon]

8:45 - You know you've said something extra bonkers when Matt does the Extended Duration Facepalm.

[@sidgenocid]

Should have asked him does he believe the following statement and is he going to jump to investigate: "You won't die if you fall off of cliffs!"

[@paullanoue5228]

The long winding road to justifying a preconceived irrational notion.

[@paulbainbridge5498]

I laughed at the lucky rabbit's foot.. I said, "wasn't too lucky for the rabbit, and he had four of them. "

[@mcchadwickcomeros995]

wtf is this reverse logic.

[@ralfhaggstrom9862]

? ? ? .............

[@TheGillenium]

Alternative facts

[@alanmacification]

Presuppositional Apologetics.

[@kentonbaird878]

Stupidity.

[@xaenon]

Religion (specifically Christianity, and more prominently in the US) is fighting a losing battle and they know it. They can't sell their traditional arguments any more, so the thing for the last decade or so has been to attempt to appropriate and repurpose the atheist arguments. This is a good example. Atheists have (correctly!) been saying that non-belief is the default position when it comes to supernatural claims. After all, nobody is a believer until someone convinces them, right? It is precisely why religion advocates indoctrination from the earliest age possible. The religious have taken to attacking this by taking what they perceive as the polar opposite position - that it is BELIEF that is the default. But clearly this is faulty, because belief, it seems (assuming their argument had merit), is determined largely by geography. If you live in the middle east, for example, the 'default' would be Islamic or Judaistic beliefs, but if you are born in the United States, the 'default' would be Christianity. Since this is NOT the case, their argument fails. I had an argument recently with a person who accused me of 'Blind Skepticism' - what he perceived as the polar opposite of Blind Faith. In one sense, he was right - Blind Faith is belief without question, while skepticism is essentially 'question everything' - but his perception failed because 'question everything' is by definition, not 'blind'. It's part of where this Flat Earth nonsense started. The Bible clearly describes a perception of a flat earth. The Christians, try as they might, cannot dance around this, so they instead decided to attack the knowledge that the earth is a globe, and the 'logic' employed is the same sort of 'logic' by which Christians have been trying to sell their crap for thousands of years now.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

He couldn't argue against skepticism so he just submerged himself in gullibility

[@kimweaver3323]

So prayer requires YOU to do the work? What's the point in including a gawd?

[@1urie1]

If you believe everything that's not disproven, then Hello I'm a Prince of an African country and I need to move money to your local bank but can't would you please deposit this amount of money on this account? Then I'll pay you 5x as much. Because I'm rich.

[@庫倫亞利克]

Liar! Everyone knows that Momiji, instead of being an African Prince, is a silly little fluffy tengu-dog! :P

[@1urie1]

@@庫倫亞利克 Oh no you got me!

[@stevenaustin8274]

Sounds a neat deal where do I sign ?

[@christopherseton-smith7404]

Well, I'm the king of Ruritania, and I don't need your money

[@tonedeafduck4859]

Ra, the sun god, is right there in the sky, every single day.

[@spocksvulcanbrain]

And we continue to praise him and build temples in his name.

[@jetkismet195]

Reminds me of another Dillahunty quote, “what’s better: Arrogance or Ignorance?”

[@Alexagrigorieff]

Q: What's worse, arrogance, ignorance, or indifference? A: I don't know what you're talking about and I don't fuking care!

[@Tonyblack261]

I look forward to seeing more of Jenna

[@oldbatwit5102]

Now there's a thought.....

[@FourDeuce01]

Clint:”You’re skeptical if there’s a fallacy leading to a conclusion.” Fallacies don’t lead anywhere.😂

[@visitedbyvoices1]

THIS is the host combination that the show needs. Matt and Jenna together elevate the show to a much higher level.

[@ronaldlindeman6136]

Statements I go by. Honesty is the First Chapter in the Book of Wisdom. Thomas Jefferson If you can't baffle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull. W. C. Fields A witty phrase proves nothing. Voltaire

[@ryanawilson8549]

Skepticism in all things. Including being skeptical.

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

Interesting point.

[@TheSquallAce]

Elaborate please...

[@ryanawilson8549]

@@TheSquallAce pretty simple. If you are skeptical about one thing. You should be consistent and be skeptical about everything

[@HIIIBEAR]

Clint is willing to be as intellectually dishonest as necessary in order to not say he was mistaken

[@seniorsaint]

I love how is seems like the callers have stopped trying to provide evidence for God and now attack burden of proof and philosophy.

[@wolf1066]

"Better to choose a religion than sit on the sidelines until one is proven" - Hmmmm, I smell Pascal's Wager.

[@johndecicco]

25:42 That's the problem. The caller has no methodology. Nothing is consistent. It's ad hoc.

[@Shermanbay]

Clint's position illustrates gullibility (believe everything first) vs. skepticism (believe nothing first).

[@zapkvr]

15:20 if you want to speed things up. The guy just wants to believe and doesn't honestly care if its true or not true. He says he does, but he really doesn't.

[@bazcuda]

Matt or Jenna ask a question: Tap dancing increases.

[@Ouja]

I fell into this same trap when I left Christianity. I believed all gods were real, and I just hadn't found one worthy of worship yet. I was still a long way away from the default position.

[@darrenwallace6161]

The harder I work , the luckier I get. Close your eyes and appreciate yourself

[@nuffflavor]

The harder I work the more tired i become........ I am not sure what evidence you are using !

[@darrenwallace6161]

I’m not sure of your definition of hard work. Not your job so much unless you love your job. But more like the harder I think about things and the more honest I am with myself , things go smooth. It’s natural not spiritual .

[@nuffflavor]

@@darrenwallace6161 Ahhhhhhh... LOL. I thinking Physical !!!! My Bad !!!!! 😜😂🤣

[@darrenwallace6161]

It’s not something you wanna over think. Yes physical and mental. The more of it you do, the better off you are. You can test it.

[@aierce]

Is this some sort of "benefit of the doubt" argument? And the caller took what only applies to social interactions to the extreme and applied it to everything.

[@vinlennox7658]

Im open on all these discussions. I do find ﹰJenna amazing. She asks open questions. Sounds like person id love to talk to!

[@tomaszkantoch4426]

Belief by default is most moronic position you can take. I believe in Big Foot . Can you disprove it ,thats why it's true.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Bigfoot would need a community cave for the species to survive. None found so far. No evidence found. No bones, no scats, no hides. Just men running around the woods in a bigfoot suit.

[@rowleyj31]

I believe soldiers who are trained in ballet and political science are less likely to be killed in combat. Why don't the rest of you believe me! I believe in true things after all!!! Duh!

[@D_Parks]

Matt and Jen showed so much compassion! I love you guys!!!

[@jkryanspark]

You can tell by Clint's totally intellectual laugh that he's disconnected from any serious emotion.

[@divisiveamerica7764]

He seems to laugh when he realizes he's incredibly wrong, it's like everything in him is saying "Yep, that makes sense, I'm stupid wrong about this!" But he also knows he doesn't want to look like an idiot by just admitting he's wrong... which, makes him look like a bigger idiot.

[@xmillion1704]

“Does prayer work?” Five minutes later, still no clear answer to a question calling for a simple yes or no, means, “yes, of course, I believe prayer works, but i don’t want to look stupid by claiming so.”

[@TheGillenium]

15:00 Matt completely mindfucks the guy

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

Fortunately, he also helps to "unfuck" him. ;)

[@joels5150]

A very consistent thing you notice watching these shows over the years is that a majority of the callers are used to never being challenged, or really having actual conversations with people. They are so used to talking over others that they will go on for 10-20 seconds WHILE the other person is in the middle of saying something. 🙄

[@chippers76751]

"Maybe I'm screwed up here" Uh, yeah.

[@gratefulapostate3123]

The caller is perfectly describing gullibility. Believe first, investigate later.

[@Antis14CZ]

It seems clear to me that the problem Clint was having was the old "not believing X" =/= "believing notX". He thinks that not accepting a claim means declaring the claim to be false. This seems to be THE roadblock for a significant portion of these conversations.

[@destronia123]

Humanity is doomed if this caller represents typical "reasoning"

[@bobs182]

Albert Einstein said that human stupidity is infinite.

[@orias12]

Thank you Matt, you cleared another thing up for me here.

[@amtlpaul]

I think part of the confusion may be about what it means to believe something. Matt is coming from the perspective that to believe something is to accept a claim as true, and when it comes to logical argument, that is what it means. However, it seems to me that in everyday life there is a spectrum of openness to/acceptance of an idea. Just as passive lack of belief is different from outright disbelief, so we have a range of 'belief' shades from a willingness to entertain an idea, to accepting that it could possibly be true, to accepting that it probably is true, to believing that it has been confirmed to be true. All of these can be reasonable or not depending on the available evidence. In a tabla rasa situation, the default option would always be passive lack of belief. However, we are not in that situation. In everyday life we will decide how likely something is to be true based largely on our experience. This is why we say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. An extraordinary claim tends to be one that, based on what we have learned so far, seems implausible.

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

Nice. I really like your exploration of skepticism, there, and am right there with you. E.G.: The Big Bang - I have little understanding of the origin of the event, and believe that nobody truly does - yet the basic mechanics of the result seem rather well understood and documented, so I believe it true, and confirmed so. I have shades of belief in just one theory there.

[@Tenly2009]

You might not be able to say “Prayer doesn’t EVER work for ANYBODY” - but you can very easily say “Prayer doesn’t work for everybody” or “Prayer doesn’t work consistently or reliably” simple by praying for something specific and watching it not come true.

[@tyrander1652]

You can't prove that a prayer ever worked. Correlation doesn't mean causation, and you would have to prove the existence of the actor that reacted to the prayer, i.e. God.

[@Tenly2009]

Tyrander165 That’s true - and not at all what my comment was about. Matt said the opposite in the video - that “you can’t prove that prayer DOESN’T work” (which is also true). My point was that we could all individually prove to ourselves that prayer doesn’t work “reliably” since all it takes is a single failed prayer to prove that.

[@rageofheaven]

So pascal's wager, so tired of that one.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Pascal: Fear wins. Reason loses.

[@karsten69]

Caller: I believe in all gods until disproven. YHWH: You shall have no other gods than me!

[@donwanderley7156]

All religions are simply a cultural reflection of extant times. Nothing more.