STOCK Mid-Level or UPGRADED Entry-Level // WHICH BIKE IS BETTER?

[@Jaydad04]

I’ve been working on and off at my buddies LBS for over 20 years and the trend back to bigger tire size is the best thing ever, I think for the average rider it makes frame material a smaller issue as far as comfort go. Also I very rarely ever have customers come back for drive train upgrades it’s 95% comfort upgrades.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Totally agree. Thx!

[@_shreyash_anand]

A great middle ground option to the brakes on a mechanical bike can be the use of TRP Hy-Rd hydro-mechanical callipers. Still mechanically actuated, but they have a hydraulic fluid reservoir built into the callipers so the braking action is hydraulic. They are significantly better than conventional callipers.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Definitely. The Hy-Rd and Juin Techs are great options.

[@obfuscurity]

I'd also throw it out there that you can upgrade to full hydro brakes SUPER cheap by just grabbing "used" new parts off Pinkbike, FB, etc. I've built up (from scratch) or upgraded countless bikes using brand new parts that were parted out mid-high-end bikes where the owner wanted something "top of the line".

[@Andrew-InTheOutside]

The Kona Rove DL has Hy-Rds. They are excellent.

[@OutThere42]

If the frame is good, it’s upgradeable. I’d get light aluminum over cheap carbon. Poseidon seems to have hit the mark. Its stock groupset and crankset are fine (2x10 more than enough. 2x12 could be finicky. And , electronic may not work in 5-10 years. Mechanical disc brake not a problem with the Tektro and compressionless housing. I’d go for tpu tubes and tires then change the wheels. Nice aluminum wheels from HED are around $800. Touchpoints like a more comfortable and lighter bar, saddle next. Then maybe a lighter crankset and rear cassette a couple years later if you decide to change gearing for where you ride (again 2x10 is more than enough) . Basically focus on reducing rotational weight and touchpoints but start with a bike that has good bones.

[@nathan.4130]

Agree 100%. I don't ( won't ) use carbon frame or electronic components, so a nice steal or aluminum frame, alloy wheels with tubes and mechanical groupset is my perfect bike.

[@markusjohnsson4836]

I bought a used bike about a year ago and one aspect that is important here is that I’ve had so much fun tinkering and learning while doing upgrades to the bike.

[@Natuh21]

Plz insert metric system on subtitles, @0:41 20.34Lb = 9,23 Kg, @1:28 22.12Lb = 10,03 Kg, @2:00 21.17Lb = 9,60Kg

[@automatic241]

You're doing the lords work

[@TheBikeSauce]

Guys, it’s a simple conversion. Multiply lbs by .45 to get kg.

[@Natuh21]

@@TheBikeSauce If u dont want to reach MUCH more ppl by just simple adding metric system its up to you. Your content is much better than the avg but its hard for us 95% of the ppl of the world to understand the crazy imperial units. If u cant do the math in your head its not simple ;)

[@obfuscurity]

I think you’re falling into the industry trap of feeling like something is “better” just because it’s more “advanced”. I feel like I could make (and imho you already did, mentioning the wider rear range) a strong case for the microSHIFT over the Shimano.

[@TheBikeSauce]

I’m trying to prevent ppl from falling into that trap. Easy to get swept up tho

[@johnmaheu4037]

Alloy frame plus good carbon wheels has been my route. The carbon wheels go to any frame upgrade in the future. Investing in good wheels makes sense and improves ride more than frame material.

[@tracerxrider]

Good stuff. I don't often see this type of comparison.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Trying to mix it up sometimes

[@automatic241]

I recently upgraded a pretty cheap entry level (~600€) gravel bike mainly used for commuting and I took a similar approach. My main problem was the awful 2x7 Shimano Tourney groupset and wanting to upgrade also meant I needed new wheels, that are compatible with bigger cassettes. Being a student and on a budget I had three main considerations: price, cheap maintainance and being able to DIY the install. I went for the 1x9 Sword Black groupset bc it was the best option in my price range and fit my use case well and some Shimano Custom Made wheels I got a good deal on. While I replaced everything I also redid all the cabling and housing. I'm pretty satisfied overall, but Ill probably upgrade the mechanical breaks to hybrid ones with hydraulic reservoirs in the future. Electronic shifting and hydraulic breaks sure are nice, but for everyday use, they are overkill imo. For getting around, Peak Mechanical is where it's at. The alloy frame is fine overall, Ill probably get a new one in the future, but I don't see myself switching to carbon. The weight benefits are not really important for my use case and the added price does not make it better. I like angle you took in the video and I understand that your doing it mainly from a cyclists perspective, but I'd also love to see more content about bikes that are also usable for commuting etc.

[@yoann0490]

Personnally, I'd choose the third option, ie. buy a used mid-range carbon bike for not a whole lot more than an entry-level bike. I bought a brand new Orbea Avant H40-D in 2023 (alu frame, carbon fork). It was a '22 model so I got it for 1200€ instead of the 1500€ original price. It came with 10 speed Sora + mechanical discs and it was a great bike, very comfortable. I replaced it a year later with a Giant Defy Advanced 3 (carbon frame/fork, 10-speed Sora, hydraulic disc). It was also a '22 model but the seller never got used to the bike and so barely used it. I got it for 1500€, and sold my Orbea for 1000€. First time riding it was night and day with my Orbea. The Giant is much more comfortable, has room for bigger tires and the wheels are tubeless ready (not the case on the Orbea). The only downside with the Giant is that the stock wheels are super heavy (around 2KG), so will probably upgrade them in the future. But other than that, I couldn't be happier with the bike.

[@josephjanssen9498]

I was asking myself this question like a year ago and I've got with the upgrading route. I have a Trek Checkpoint ALR 5, and I've slowly been swapping out parts... saddle, bars/bar tape, tires, and I have some DT swiss wheels being shipped as we speak. This nice thing about this is that my bike now feels very customized to my preferences. When I'm ready for a "new bike", I can move all the parts over to a new frameset instead of starting with a stock setup, which I planned to do this coming year. I have been looking at Shimano 105 or GRX for groupset, but I'll definitely consider Microshift after watching this. great video @TheBikeSauce!

[@doctorscoot]

I would say, the comparison could be made more objective by looking between the different component levels within a range of a single bike brand. E.g. Cube Agree C:62 comes in a bunch of trim levels but you're looking more at mid to high-end ranges I think (I looked up the Polygon but it seems the carbon fibre frame is only the highest trim level, with the rest having aluminium frames). My own experience is that I bought a BMC Teammachine SLR in the _base_ trim level with mechanical 105 in a run out sale. That _exact same frame_ runs all the way up to a tricked out Ultegra Di2 model at three times the price I paid for my (heavily discounted) "entry" model. There's also the SLR01 (now the R01 I think?) model above all that with the even better carbon frame set (same geometry though) and Dura Ace or SRAM Red group set at the very top end (but also Ultegra is available I think), but I ain't got ten grand plus to spend on a bike. However, I've since put carbon wheels on my base model SLR and it absolutely transformed it as a bike. It also took nearly a kilo off the weight (includes the lighter tyres I put on it). The cheaper price also allowed me to replace the 105 cranks with a power meter crank set, and replace the terrible stock saddle with a Selle Italia. I'm probably going to look at the bars and stem next. Thus, the cheaper bike has allowed me to slowly change things over time. If I had got that Ultegra Di2 model or even really splurged and got the SLR01, I'd have zero money left over to upgrade and change components.

[@shannonparker7404]

Bang some good wheels on that Polygon and it'll be a better bike than most of us need. Bloody shame it doesn't take 30mm tyres. I'm sure it will be coming.

[@sandy_knight]

I don't know anything about road/gravel bikes but from a MTB perspective, if you know you love the sport and you want the best bike you can afford in the long run I'd always recommend starting with the best frame you can afford with the lowest spec groupset. That way you can upgrade the components a bit at a time, a few hundred [currency units] each month instead of a massive outlay in one go. That's how I roll anyway...

[@TheBikeSauce]

I’d say that’s a fair approach for road and gravel too

[@drill_fiend1097]

The thing about Poseidon bikes is that you can also find decent mech brake, alu famed bike from LBS for similar price and better complimentary service. Polygon is absolute value with di2 at unbeatable price. I trust Polygon since they are oem builders for many bikes, kinda like Giant in the past.

[@JDP8888]

Nice try! Still not buying a Poseidon bike. I own a Polygon S5 disc with the Shimano 105 R7000 hydraulic. I swapped the tires and saddle out of the box and total spent was $1600. $600 difference on the Poseidon Triton. Do I need carbon components besides the stock fork? My answer is no, $1K for grams is a waste in my opinion. The only downside the Polygon is a max tire clearance of 28mm (maybe 30mm). It doesn’t stop my riding because I don’t live near the mountains or have access to chunky gravel roads. I see Poseidon bikes on FB marketplace more frequently than I would see a Polygon. A Trek FX with the same upgrades and existing features as the Triton will feel and ride the same.

[@TheBikeSauce]

🫰 almost had you..

[@donttouchthisatall]

Bought a gravelbike in 2021 and have since upgraded it to GRX & wheelset. So basically exactly what you reccomended with the poseidon. Also, if you get a bike now, you can already be riding it, w/o having to wait until you have saved for that "more desirable" one.

[@petesjk]

I need to mention that this example can also make an argument for buying used and simply upgrading the wheelset.

[@jflaim410]

I agree with several people below. Hunt Gravel Race wheels are only 1400 grams, there are not many gravel wheels lighter and they are only $600. That would leave plento of money for a really good quality crankset that I am sure would be WAY lighter. I am guessing you can meet the 20.5lbs of the Polygon. I am a fan of high quality Aluminum over cheep Carbon.

[@charalamposkostopoulos601]

Very spot on video, well done!

[@PuddyIzzy]

With my limited experience I would say go for budget to mid and build/learn your prefence and differentiate from what you need from what you want. I always give advice(for those who ask) to my friends who want to go a little bit serious going into cyclit is to have a proper bike fit as that will be your base for minor/major correction to base your upgrades instead of guessing and burning a hole on your wallet(learned the hard way). 😅

[@newttella1043]

A lower end bike with nice carbon wheels and tires is the best value. Hydraulic brakes is a must too.

[@JameeSkidmore]

I would prefer the Poseidon. Mechanical shifting, mechanical brakes work great. They are cheaper to buy, cheaper and easier to maintain and cheaper to replace. I rode 7,500 miles last year and I'm faster and can ride further than most. Too many people think they have to have the latest and greatest and/or they can buy their way into being fast. It's not true, but if you can afford it and it makes you want to ride your bike, buy the more expensive bike, but it's not necessary. Agree that wheels and tires are the best upgrade you can make.

[@Mavczers]

The best thing with lower spec bike is that a lot more people can afford to spend less on a bike and ride. And then save up money for upgrades. There is no way I would buy anything better than 800$ bike while living in a country where annual pay is around 10000$. But over the two years my Marin Gestalt got new groupset, new wheelset, new bar tape and is 2kg lighter. I could afford 100-300 bucks of upgrades from time to time. And what is most important for me - I did it all by myself having new hobby and fun! Now it's waiting for the Sensah hydraulic upgrade :)

[@automatic241]

I'd love it, if you'd also mention the weights in kg. As a European, I have no intuition for how heavy 21lbs are and what the difference to 20lbs is.

[@mattflanagan7519]

Great content thanks Nolan

[@thomaskuhn6541]

Interesting conversation although I would have preferred to see the comparison between two bikes from the same company and model, say an entry level Trek Domane AL vs. 105 spec carbon Domane. With your specific example I would most likely choose the Poseidon because I'd rather have the AL frame and the Sword I can service myself. Also, I've seen nothing but good reviews for Advent drive trains and I really don't need or want 12 speed.

[@jeffandersen6233]

As an older rider i look for a good comfortable fit. I have steel, aluminum and a carbon frame bike. I still like riding the very old steel frame bike with all mechanical components and alu rims. Admittedly i have some remorse on buying the carbon frame due to cost. An alu or steel bike with the GRX components would have been much cheaper.

[@Andrew-InTheOutside]

The frame/fork is most important. I'd rather start out with a frame that you really like and one that will last. Personally I prefer steel frames for the durability and most of all ride feel. I've tried aluminum and carbon and they just don't compare. Just a party pace / enthusiastic rider here, not a racer. Thanks for the video!

[@TheBikeSauce]

Solid philosophy!

[@Niknamew]

You mentioned Primos in this video, and I'd love to see a review of their Dame if you can get your hands on one

[@TheBikeSauce]

In the works already!

[@Niknamew]

@TheBikeSauce LET'S GOOOO

[@paulstrong2210]

Thanks for doing the comparison. The brake shaming has gone too far though. While I haven't tried the hy/rds, I have tried the Juin Tech version and there just isn't a comparison between mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes. I'm certainly heavier than most riders, I have lots of descending and I live in a wet climate, and those factor into my opinion, but mechanical is only as good as when they are set up right, which is still worse than hydraulic (performance wise). As the pad wears, that performance gets worse, so sometimes it means fiddling with adjusting the pads when out for a ride, sometimes a very cold and wet ride. Hydraulic just offers the best stopping power from the day that the pad is installed until the pad is worn out, you never have to to adjust or anything, you just ride and enjoy awesome modulation and power. So stop brake shaming, mechanical is fine, but hydraulic is better from a power, modulation and upkeep standpoint across most conditions. I think your wheelset upgrade is correctly the item to priorize, but after that, hydraulic brakes. When I made the jump 15 years ago in mountain biking it was a world of difference, the same is true for both road and gravel in the last decade.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Agree with everything here, but who’s brake shaming?

[@paulstrong2210]

I thought you made them seem closer in performance, but I guess I’m wrong. I’m the one brake shaming:(

[@CharlieMetcalf]

Mid level bike is over 2k!!! 1.2k wheels!!!! I am not interested in Carbon Fiber frame. No plastic bike for me! I will take your Ritchey frame and build up from there with Microshift 1x10 Sword or Advent X. A good steel frame and good shifting that just works. Personally, I prefer older bikes. I have a 1987 Cannondale Touring 2x7 & 27" wheels. A Storck Romani Columbus SL frame with 1x9 Sram and flat bars (Street fighter). A State bike single speed Steel. A 1986 Vitus 979 with 7 speed shimano 105. A 2001 Bianchi Strada with Advent X and flat bars. I am currently building a 1996 GT Outback Trail for a Drop bar MTB. All these bikes work perfectly and get me on the road with no issues at all. None are plastic or electronic. All of them cost MUCH less then 2k.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Hate to break it to you, but a Ritchey built up with even modest mechanical group and decent wheels is well over 2k. It’s the unfortunate truth of bikes in 2025

[@MW-ud8zp]

I would much rather have the Poseidon you specced than the Polygon. I dont care for hydraulic brakes on road bikes, carbon or electronic shifting while the wheels look fantastic.

[@towerrunner496]

Well right now Bikes Online has the Strattos S7X on sale for $1899. Even better get the Strattos S8X on sale for $2599. 18.1lbs out of the box (size Small). Much better Novatec R3 carbon wheels, Ultegra 12 speed DI2. That is if one was only wanting a bike for the "roads". Upgrade the wheels/tires on the S7X, go tubeless if desired. (stock wheels are pretty heavy). Then put on decent bar tape (the stock bar tape is extremely thin), and one would have an excellent road bike. If you also want to do light gravel get the Poseidon, and upgrade it over time. Each person can decide what is best for them. The only thing I was surprised with what you said, was being able to lock up the back brake while seated. That is really not a good way to judge how well brakes would actually stop one, distance and modulation wise. I do and have always enjoyed your channel and content! I have the Strattos S8X, which I use as my main training bike, excellent bike for the price!

[@TheBikeSauce]

The S8X is a great bike! I’m talking in terms of retail prices; the Poseidon is on sale too. The ‘brake test’ is my personal metric for whether sufficient braking power exists.

[@JayS-z7b]

Like the analysis. I would add that ppl who buy a 600 to 1k bike should also give themselves permission to buy a whole new bike later on. Sell the other at a bargain preferably to me. 😂

[@skatepuunksurvivalist8536]

Here from the Path Less Pedaled

[@TheBikeSauce]

🤘🤘

[@abednegobofo367]

I would buy as much bike as you can afford upfront. Can always upgrade the wheels later. As someone who loves descending, I highly value the hydraulic disc brakes.

[@TheBikeSauce]

I partially agree, only bc that’s a slippery slope. If you’re on a budget, there’s always something better for ‘just a little bit more.’ Easy to end up overreaching and not leaving budget for anything else.

[@joshuaallswang8016]

Dude..rim brakes can stop a 200lb+ man set up correctly.

[@abednegobofo367]

@@joshuaallswang8016Having bikes with both, I still prefer hydro disc brakes especially if you have a set of carbon rims. Mixed terrain or unexpected rain? Hydro disc all day.

[@timtaylor9590]

Locking up the rear while seated isn't a good test because all rim brake bikes have been doing that for decades. It's a standard not some type of special quality on premium brakes

[@TheBikeSauce]

It’s a test for lower end mechanical disc brakes with cheap housing. Often not sufficient power to lock up the brakes.

[@Nick-cs5yc]

Get the best you can, then build up👍👍

[@subliminalfreedom]

If you're average, what am I? 😂😂

[@TheBikeSauce]

lol, also average I’m assuming?

[@MTBScotland]

I'd buy in between the two. Alu bike with hydro brakes.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Sensible

[@MTBScotland]

@@TheBikeSauce or wait for decent deals to come along. Hydro brakes was the baseline when I bought by road bike 2 years ago. narrower bars, 56mm deep wheels, power meter, decent tyres is what I've done to mine.

[@subliminalfreedom]

I think the brake and drivetrain could have been half points maybe.

[@TheBikeSauce]

Fair point

[@endtimeslips4660]

the best entry level bike i ever ride is pardus robin sl campagnolo rim brake series

[@TESTA-CC]

Get a 2017 Carbon Rim Brake Bike, Quicker,Lighter, Cheaper, Easy to Work on. Disc Brakes Are for Mopeds & Motorbikes. The extra weight of hydraulic fluid, brake caliper & disc it's costing you watts & time.

[@bergrendizonnoel]

Electronic drivetrain is a -1 to me. Peak mechanical!

[@TheBikeSauce]

Haha fair enough

[@johnbay1234]

Buy the bike you can afford to maintain fix and upgrade in the future.

[@JFomo]

Firstly, how much is 20 pounds and secondly, that Polygon is sub-entry.

[@TheBikeSauce]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[@DickSpencer1954]

Nolan, this was a very good video overall. I think you stayed as neutral as possible. But, I'm sorry, $1250.00 wheels are waay over most peoples budget if all they could afford is the $1000.00 Poseidon in the first place. I realize that there is this "fear factor" over purchasing "cheap" Chinese wheels. Three years ago Elite, Winspace, etc. were "cheap" "unproven" wheels yet now those are the norm so where is the market. In the two years since I've built my bike. Less than $2500.00 total including experiments including titanium frame, carbon wheels and decent drivetrain from China and Japan. Yet the two sets of carbon wheels I've used on this build cost less than $1000.00 including shipping. The first set is 1700 grams with 23mm internal and 45mm depth, great wheels no fear mongering problems with over 2000 miles of usage! The second set is 1300 grams with 27mm internal yet at 30mm depth (didn't like the crosswind problems with the 45s). Also to your video, this second set has the DT Swiss reverse engineered ratchet. So I realize that in trying to present a responsible channel you have to take the safe route, I understand. But that doesn't mean I can't say that there are more inexpensive carbon rims out there that are just as good as the 4 digit dollar ones. Be careful, be diligent and you can find some really neat bargains for that alloy Poseidon. Love you channel! Keep up the good work!!

[@Josukegaming]

I super agree with you, buying $1200 wheels is absurd unless you're riding in the tour de France. Mind sharing a link or name of the frame and wheels you bought?

[@TheBikeSauce]

Thanks for the thoughtful input. This exercise is highly academic; I’m aware that spending more on wheels than the bike itself isn’t too common. I love all the suggestions and preferences in the comments so far. I had to pick 2 sides to discuss at first. Cheers!

[@Nick-cs5yc]

$1200 to save a pound of weight??

[@TheBikeSauce]

No

[@Josukegaming]

Seems quite silly to consider buying $1200 wheels if you can only afford a $1000 bike. Nice tires, saddle, and bars are infinitely cheaper and still make a huge difference in comfort. One pound literally does not matter in terms of speed, as an engineer you should know that. In addition, nobody but a pro racer needs a carbon frame, it's infinitely more likely to break and cause problems, without much of a real advantage unless you're riding the tour de france.

[@TheBikeSauce]

It’s partially an academic exercise. I mentioned the weight difference is basically a wash

[@mazditzo]

You can't compare 10$ patty to a 100$ wagyu 🤣, it's just different. I'll pick bike with a hydraulic brakes from a reputable brands anyday

[@TheBikeSauce]

But a $10 patty with carbon wheels..

[@timtaylor9590]

E shifting is a down grade from mechanical. It will not hold value because it breaks and becomes worthless in a few years. No one ever had problems with shifting before e shifting unless it's from integrated cables which is more nonsense

[@karelvandervelden8819]

Titanium, Lithium, Magnesium, Iridium and........ hey....Aluminium. All metals. Not Aluminimum. It does not exist. Its not a word.

[@TheBikeSauce]

😆😆😆 go eat a tomahto

[@karelvandervelden8819]

@@TheBikeSauce Thats not a word either.

[@claudiofiero8523]

I guess he was talking about the rare premius specie that you get from the hybrid between tomato and garlic. The H is there so that you can smell it ​@@karelvandervelden8819

[@Nick-cs5yc]

Get the best you can, then build up👍👍